Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[MonkeyMan576]

God, can we please just skip the RVS?

[MonkeyMan576]

God, can we please just skip the RVS?

Yes.
VOTE: MonkeyMan576

How rude

[MonkeyMan576]

Wagons are always good and I like to inspire...
VOTE: Kluck

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Klick

[MonkeyMan576]

What changed?

[MonkeyMan576]

Lol ok I like your sense of humor.

[MonkeyMan576]

i don't like how quickly you put Klick at E-10

that's too close to getting speed limmed for me

With the scum split up into two factions, they are unable to coordinate, and therefore speedlims are objectively better than they are in a more standard game setup because they are more likely to hit scum and less likely to be derailed. I think, based on that, that all of our eliminations should be speedlims.

Speedlims are never a good thing but you are trying to raise your profile so you I am guessing you are town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Being active in general is better than being a lurker. So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt for now. I knew you were joking.

[MonkeyMan576]

you know what you get when you mix country and rap.

[MonkeyMan576]

Being active in general is better than being a lurker. So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt for now. I knew you were joking.

Hm. But you didn't say that you were townreading me for being active. You said you were townreading me for trying to raise my profile. Scum are more likely to be the ones trying to raise their profile. Town just do it naturally. Why did you phrase it that way?

I disagree about scum raising their profile. Some may do that, but a majority seem to avoid confrontation in general in my experience. Weather players are purposefully trying to raise their profile or "doing it naturally" isn't really the issue as far as I am concerned this early in the game. Maybe later on you can nitpick someone's psycological profile.

[MonkeyMan576]

Actually Sweden is better because they have ABBA.

[MonkeyMan576]

No such thing as useless talk.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: bnuuy

OMGUS's are scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: catboi

He seems defensive. My previous vote was a good vote as well.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: catboi

He seems defensive. My previous vote was a good vote as well.

This phrasing in the second sentence feels over-explain-y and self-aware. And hopping on to what looks like mostly a meme wagon, but doing so with serious reasons?

VOTE: MonkeyMan

I'm not overly serious but this seems as good as any and it is definatley good for game advancement purposes,

[MonkeyMan576]

You're not helping your cause,

[MonkeyMan576]

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

This seems like appeal to emotion and OMGUS.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: bnuuy

OMGUS's are scummy.

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

This seems like appeal to emotion and OMGUS.

In these posts, it doesn't feel like you are actually considering whether these things make the person in question scum. You're just going down a checklist of tells to call out to look like you're hunting.

It's early, what can I say. I don't want to overexert myself yet.

[MonkeyMan576]

i like bnuuy more

VOTE: bnuuy

Why?

mostly for pressure and i don't really find catboi scummy

Is this from experience?

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: bnuuy

OMGUS's are scummy.

there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here

This seems like appeal to emotion and OMGUS.

In these posts, it doesn't feel like you are actually considering whether these things make the person in question scum. You're just going down a checklist of tells to call out to look like you're hunting.

Unfortunately I do not believe this is a scumtell for him

What about the downplaying it and brushing it off when called out for it, in 106 and 132?

What do you want me to say, "I'm so sorry, please forgive me for my obvious scumminess?"

[MonkeyMan576]

I modded a Calvin and Hobbes game once, it didn't go well.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think anyone thinks Wallflower is more panicky than catboi. Talk about not reading the room.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry misread that sentence disregard.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think claiming neighbor is beneficial this early.

[MonkeyMan576]

Too late I see.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't feel like the neighborhood reveal and the catboi wagon are coincidentally timed.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am in hood with Flavor and indeed he asking for me.

lmao

Actually, if there's a Mafia Miller, they should claim.

Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.

This seems very WIFOM. Why would you coach mafia players?

[MonkeyMan576]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ruleset:
Alignment assignment and role design had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam. The first game featured a Mafia Miller.

[MonkeyMan576]

No one else think it's odd that leaf was advising a possible mafia miller to claim?

[MonkeyMan576]

I thought he meant mafia miller since there was one in the last game

[MonkeyMan576]

I said it was unusual so why is it unusual to say it's unusual?

[MonkeyMan576]

I said it was unusual so why is it unusual to say it's unusual?

You were clearly implying that it was suspicious. Are you going back on that now? Also, please respond to 325.

If he meant mafia miller it's suspicious.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

Is this referring to the hood (which definitely does not exist) with Flavor Leaf, Enchant, and Klick? Why is that all scum?

It just wouldn't surprise me since it's "not quite normal"

[MonkeyMan576]

Well Flavor leaf is not pinging town, and they aren't town reading each other evidently.

[MonkeyMan576]

Apparently reading the rules is not a thing.

[MonkeyMan576]

Alignment assignment and role design had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam.

The first game featured a Mafia Miller.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think that I being slightly paranoid.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't remember i'd have to check. Why?

[MonkeyMan576]

I think we were in a game recently as NoPowerOverMe.

[MonkeyMan576]

But I still don't hear you town reading your neighbors or them town reading you. So from a town perspective an all scum neighborhood is on the table.

[MonkeyMan576]

Found the game, for the record:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85010&user_select%5 ... &start=400

You somehow weaseled your way out of a elim even though I had semi hard evidence against you.

[MonkeyMan576]

But I still don't hear you town reading your neighbors or them town reading you. So from a town perspective an all scum neighborhood is on the table.

not from mine

Why would it be 100% off the table?

[MonkeyMan576]

But I still don't hear you town reading your neighbors or them town reading you. So from a town perspective an all scum neighborhood is on the table.

not from mine

Why would it be 100% off the table?

It doesn't need to be 100% off the table

You need to, at a bare minimum, show that it's plausible and worth considering. Why should we think those players are scum? Just saying it is possible is not enough

I'm not saying they are. It could be an all town neighborhood for all we know. I'm just trying to get some more out of the neighbors themselves.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

You did say they are.

I was joking. Thinking out loud. The idea of an all scum hood scares me.

[MonkeyMan576]

Why did you only now say you were joking after being questioned on it at least 5 times?

I thought it was evident. How could I possibly know the alignment of 3 players on page 15 or whatever we are on?

[MonkeyMan576]

look monkey dude

me and my partner have questions

and if your answers aren't to our liking

you won't be long for this world.

what do you know about the hood.

spill

lol, only what they already revealed.

[MonkeyMan576]

Why did you only now say you were joking after being questioned on it at least 5 times?

I thought it was evident. How could I possibly know the alignment of 3 players on page 15 or whatever we are on?

Saying that the argument is that you knew the alignment of 3 players is a strawman. The question is if it's a serious suspicion, not if it's locking them in as scum. None of your posts on the matter up until now gave any indication that it wasn't a serious read. When explaining it earlier you also gave no indication that it was a joke.

If I showed all of my cards before hand how can I expect to be taken seriously?

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think that I being slightly paranoid.

genuine question:

do you think my play has been good scum play if you think i am scum or more just weird and odd?

Odd.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think we were in a game recently as NoPowerOverMe.

0_0

So you're an alt then?

[MonkeyMan576]

mastina
Butterchurn
Wallflower
NorweiganboyEE
TracerBullet
NashvilleDreams
SaveTheDragons

MalcolmTrucker
tictac
CatScratchFever
bnunny

Klick
Menalque
FlavorLeaf
SwordOfDucks

Not Enough Info:
momo
cassowary
TheKeeper
MegAzumarill
Enchant

[MonkeyMan576]

I will strive to use the correct spelling(no promises though).

[MonkeyMan576]

mastina
Butterchurn
Wallflower
NorweiganboyEE
TracerBullet
NashvilleDreams
SaveTheDragons

MalcolmTrucker
tictac
CatScratchFever
bnunny

Klick
Menalque
FlavorLeaf
SwordOfDucks

Not Enough Info:
momo
cassowary
TheKeeper
MegAzumarill
Enchant

What is blue? I would have guessed Null based on structure, but then it is separated from the unsorted at the bottom.

You also appear to be missing us, and the person you are currently voting:catboi

Sorry, my bad:

Well Done

Catboi

[MonkeyMan576]

yes

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: bnuuy

OMGUS's are scummy.

VOTE: catboi

He seems defensive. My previous vote was a good vote as well.

Was surprised to see bnuuy in Null given the above, and then I didn't see anything else about them in your iso since.

Anything in particular making you second guess your initial read?

Yes he seems more engaged and actually trying to develop reads.

[MonkeyMan576]

Is blue null?

yes

So I'm null and u do have enough info from me. Is this a situation where u explaining why would make sense of it?

You're somewhat more active than others but you don't strike me as particularly town or scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

ok so you're less active than I thought. Are you wanting me to scumread you?

[MonkeyMan576]

ok so you're less active than I thought. Are you wanting me to scumread you?

That's not the issue here - if you're not aware how active a player is when making your list then your list clearly isn't as detailed or as coherent as you want it to appear to the rest of us.

It's an early read list. I'm not expecting it to be taken entirely seriously.

[MonkeyMan576]

ok so you're less active than I thought. Are you wanting me to scumread you?

That's not the issue here - if you're not aware how active a player is when making your list then your list clearly isn't as detailed or as coherent as you want it to appear to the rest of us.

It's an early read list. I'm not expecting it to be taken entirely seriously.

And the pattern continues.

Which pattern, that someone tells me what I "want it to appear" that isn't actually true? Obviously a day one read list is not going to be as well developed as say a day four read list.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey can you explain the nullreads?

They're just early reads, there's not a lot to explain. It mostly means I don't have strong impressions one way or the other.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey can you explain the nullreads?

They're just early reads, there's not a lot to explain. It mostly means I don't have strong impressions one way or the other.

Why did you feel the need to create a read list when you don't want it to be taken seriously? I agree that nitpicking a readlist this early is not likely to be a very fruitful endeavor. Still, though, it's highly suspicious that when asked to justify one of the reads, you made up a reason. And it was only after that reason was shown to hold no water that you backed down and said the readslist shouldn't be taken seriously. If you truly thought that, that should have been your initial reaction. Instead you tried to justify it first, likely out of fear of being suspected.

Because I don't have anything to hide.

[MonkeyMan576]

I didn't make up a reason, it just wasn't as well researched as it maybe should have been. I'm sure anyone could go through 24 players and find mistakes in my read list if they wanted to.

[MonkeyMan576]

Because I don't have anything to hide.

But that's exactly the point. If you didn't have anything to hide, why not say something like "I don't know, I didn't have a strong impression of tictac, the difference between null and blue shouldn't be read into that much"? Instead you tried to come up with a reason to justify something that was arbitrary.

I was probably trying to reason it out in my head.

[MonkeyMan576]

monkey why did you give a readslist when you did

Why not? It puts it on the record, people are going to respond to it, and it moves the game forward.

[MonkeyMan576]

i'd also probably turbo lim mastina in a heartbeat at this point

I'm curious, why is that? I thought some of her reads seemed a little strange, but nothing that was clearly suspicious.

i think part of me doesn't want to believe she's a beloved princess but that might be outguessing the mod

my gut is wary of mastina because i've seen her as scum act similar

i think she's actually town but i just said that because i want to be wary

have you seen her fake claim beloved princess?

[MonkeyMan576]

@Monkey, Can you explain the reads on Well Done, MalcolmTucker and SwordsofDucks?

Well Done - active an engaged, agree with their posts for the most part.

MalcomTrucker - Not really active, but their posts seem like they are trying to sort a little.

SwordofDucks - low content posting.

[MonkeyMan576]

I could actually consider a SoD wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

For the most part the reasoning for the people voting for me is extremely flimsy. I have an opinion or two, another player with good reason questions the opinion, I don't get all huffy puffy with them like some people do when they're questioned, and all of a sudden I'm backpedaling somehow? This is more of a case of people trying to push me in to a corner just for having an opinion and then trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, or as some would call it, voting for LHF. Why not focus on those that are not actually contributing to the game or are doing something actually scummy?

[MonkeyMan576]

It's not that I don't expect to be taken seriously. It's that miscalculations about players are far more likely to happen on day one than later on in the game. It doesn't make me scummy that I thought a player was less active than they were.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'll admit I have been accused of lack of focus at times. But I have my strengths as a player as well I think. I am pretty good at engaging with people and forming accurate reads based on those engagements. I tend to be weaker early in the game and better later in the game. It's just a matter of getting through those first few days usually for me.

I also don't like to do a lot of research early on when there's not really a lot to go on and it's a lot of bs.

[MonkeyMan576]

Looking over Mastina's last game I can see she is an extremely high content poster and contributed to her towns win as a Town Mason. I am not comfortable with eliming her as a claimed BP. Based on the claim she is the player I would last like to see eliminated. In fact anyone proposing her elimination I am extremely suspicious of now that I think about it.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Klick

FOS: SaveTheDragons

[MonkeyMan576]

What does multiball have to do with it? Obviously the opposite scum team would benefit from a BP elim no?

[MonkeyMan576]

Beloved Princess. Don't scum want to generally elim town first and the other scum second since the other scum also wants to elim town and town are the majority?

[MonkeyMan576]

Honestly I have little concern about the wagon on me. There are twice as many votes of people not on me(11) as there are on me(6). There are several weak votes on me as well, namely from tictac, MalcolmTrucker, and cassowary. I feel like butter is trying to take things that I have said out of context as well. I can scumhunt and point out the weaknesses of the wagon of me at the same time, which is what I am doing. There are far better fish to fry.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

What is “this”?

FoS: MonkeyMan

I have to ask, why the FoS on monkeyman? Did you not want to move your vote off Save The Dragons, and if so, why not?

It looked like a slip but I wasn’t sure (the “this” felt out of place)
VOTE: monkeyman
Better place for my vote than StD currently

So you agree with eliminated the claimed beloved princess then?

[MonkeyMan576]

tracer is the malefactor, calling it now

lol if I was malefactor I would've already claimed it and tried to get myself elimmed and spammed the thread full of shitty youtube wrestling videos

why, that's anti win con.

malefactor doesn't have to live to win, eliminating town dayplay oppurtunity buys cover for your scum team

last game malefactor got endgamed and was completely useless

Last game the malefactor was endgamed and completely useless because we identified him as the malefactor day 1, and promptly ignored him for the rest of the game.

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

I have 3 PT's. None of them are the scum ones, and now that I know the randomization of it all, i'm so paranoid of this game

Given the mechanics of the last game, I am surprised that there are 3.

Also curious if this works out as an IC claim for you?

How is this game at 11 pages already.

hot take: commenting about the page count is >rand scum

is this actually true or is it just something people say so much that they believe it to be true

I don't have data or anything if that's what you're asking

Though this made me want to go look at Malcolm's past large games to see if he's complained about the same thing before. There's only been one large so far, but the vibe doesn't feel the same so good enough for an early gutread

Spoiler:

Subject: Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

Lot to catch up on here, will do a readthrough of what I've missed so far.

Their second post:

Spoiler:

Anyway, main reads so far. Wu seems incredibly suspicious so far to me and I'm surprised it took until p11 of the game for Nero to pick up on this. Basically all of their early posts were either jokes or non-comments which allowed them to appear active without getting too involved in the game and actually taking stances either way. If they come back mafia, worth looking at other players early on who had theories but didn't pick up on that.

I didn't necessarily suspect Tenebros on the basis of their early posts but found some of their later defences incredibly weak attempts to divert attention away from them without addressing accusations at-hand.

Yet seems solidly townie so far, if not would be a very bold strategy for mafia playing their first game on the site. Also appears to have a sort of absolute confidence in their reads which can often be townie, mafia maybe more likely to hedge their bets and avoid going too heavily in on someone who could later be confirmed town.

They got right into it compared to what they did in this game which has me raising an eyebrow

Yo, very important to note:

I am a Beloved Princess

I know the rule about randomization elements to roles, but I find it hard to believe that Ceph would have allowed beloved princess to potentially be a scum role after existing in the Bloodstained game and seeing a scum beloved princess in action.

severely not convinced by Well Done's case on menalque

Sad.

~~More of my thoughts on Mena~~

The context:
~Mena was sitting on the largest early wagon: catboi.
~There was another growing wagon on Monkey Man
~I was currently leaning town on CSF based on the meta check presented in 358.

So, I saw Mena jump off of the largest wagon without voicing any read on catboi, and then ignore the second largest wagon (monkey man), and vote someone I think is town without reason. This makes me curious., so I ask why.

I feel like the timeline is a bit important to my thoughts, so will include.
Original vote is at 6:51 est, presumably he just thought of why he wanted to vote CSF. I ask why immediately after at 6:57 est, he sees my question and posts without answering immediately after at 7:04 est.

He then posts again, still not answering, but instead deflecting into complaining about hydras instead. -- He then comes back to give an answer, an hour after asked. His answer:

Spoiler:

thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

Firstly, I don't see CSF's explination as a overjustification at all. It was a 2 sentence explenation for the read after being directly asked to explain the read.

Spoiler:

I don't see that at all from this exchange tbh

Spoiler:

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

why

Gut lol

from what?

barely posted, how do you have a gut read

ok maybe i can see it

but answer anyway i wanna hear your answer

From complaining about having to read

My impression of Malcolm is that he doesn't mind doing legwork like reading 10 pages

[/sp/oiler]

Secondly, if the true reason Mena voted CSF was because he saw the Malcom vote reasoning, and thought it was an overjustification, I don't think he would have dodged the question twice before answering.

Thirdly, the way he presented the read was in itself an over justification imo.

His reason for voting CSF, was

maybe

a throw away kind of reason that is good enough to vote someone pre page 5 when you don't have content to look at, but definitely not in the context of when he made it.

Moving his vote, but not being able to / being unwilling to say why when asked, trying to deflect the conversation away, and then finally coming back with a really flimsy reason being presented as a serious reason reads to me like it was a fake read that he was not expecting to be questioned on. Not one that he believed in as he cast the vote.

These posts, for example, give me the impression that WD is actively engaged.

[MonkeyMan576]

I also suspect Klick a bit so far. I feel like their early read on catboi was again reaching a bit, accusing them of being "noncommittal" at a point in the game where half the players were still very much mostly shitposting.

thanks!

I voted CSF for 3 reasons:

(1) I think malc's "oh god 11 pages already" thing is very slightly +scum, but CSF's "he seems like he wouldn't mind the legwork of reading 10 pages" reads as overjustification to me

(2) she didn't say hello to me

(3) *reserved for now*

These posts give the impression of sorting.
I don't really see why such a post is particularly scummy really. I've since caught up and reflected on where I feel the game is at - I just was quite surprised coming in and seeing so much content on the go already.

I think CSF's point was fair enough that I'll generally read back and make sure I know where I am with the game, but it was night for me anyway hence I knew I'd be delayed on a full catch-up until morning.

dunn, you continue to astonish me with the amount of effort you put in, time and time again, to not understanding my play

This post very much feels like a deflection. Convenient way to ignore the point being made.

why... would I address the point that's being made?

Because it's surely a better look than deflecting onto the argument being made being entirely around playstyle. Players can adapt how they approach the game, saying "this is how I play" doesn't stop someone from potentially reading you as mafia.

[MonkeyMan576]

If SoD's "low content posting" was a problem, why didn't you support my push prior to being FoSed?

This is the third time I am asking this.[/quote]

I'm not always going to jump on a wagon the first time something comes up.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is probably an all scum hood. Sigh.

What is “this”?

FoS: MonkeyMan

I have to ask, why the FoS on monkeyman? Did you not want to move your vote off Save The Dragons, and if so, why not?

It looked like a slip but I wasn’t sure (the “this” felt out of place)
VOTE: monkeyman
Better place for my vote than StD currently

So you agree with eliminated the claimed beloved princess then?

I don't buy it. Wanting to eliminate the beloved princess is definately NOT a towntell.
No I don’t
I just think StD self-contradicting might be a towntell

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry for the misformatting.

[MonkeyMan576]

Intended post:
I don't buy it. Wanting to eliminate the beloved princess is definately NOT a towntell.

[MonkeyMan576]

Intended post:
I don't buy it. Wanting to eliminate the beloved princess is definately NOT a towntell.

That’s not what I’m saying, I feel like the underlying logic is town-indicative in that it doesn’t feel orchestrated
Just because I dislike someone’s push doesn’t make them scum

Sometimes a duck is a duck.

[MonkeyMan576]

Intended post:
I don't buy it. Wanting to eliminate the beloved princess is definately NOT a towntell.

do you believe her claim? okay i don't know that i do

do you believe that cephrir would put it in the game after bloodstained? okay you don't know what that means but i do it means i have doubts he would randomize a beloved princess because it could end up on one of the scum teams

do you think that it's possible if the claim is real that it has anything to do with alignment? no, she could still be scum and we have to get her some way or another if she is.

but saying "omg the person attacking the beloved princess is scum because they obviously want to blow up the beloved princess" is pretty shallow thinking because it's obviously not going to happen

I believe Mastina's claim.

I don't see the point of proposing such an elimination unless you believe it. Maybe it is shallow thinking but if we're not taking him at his word it seems like a bunch of WIFOM.

[MonkeyMan576]

I was referring to those wanting to elm her, who are male.

[MonkeyMan576]

It seems like there are people who really don't believe Mastina's claim and I'd rather keep my vote there at this point.

[MonkeyMan576]

Not so much that they don't believe Mastina's claim, it seems like an excuse to elim a claimed beloved princess.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not against a MT elim or a Meg elim, they're just not at the top of my bucket list atm.

[MonkeyMan576]

I've been accused of being annoying but I think once you get to know me better the easier I am to understand. I am able to handle being "limbait" for the most part now days and it can even end up being helpful and take attention of of other town players that need to stay under the radar. But yeah I'm not going to change my playstyle because of a few votes.

[MonkeyMan576]

They're preliminary reads. A lot changes on day 1.

As far as what you said, I feel engagement is more often AI than not. You need to at least show that you are trying to gamesolve to a certain degree.

[MonkeyMan576]

Claiming beloved princess as scum would just seem a really stupid way to bring attention to yourself, not to mention you could be counterclaimed.

[MonkeyMan576]

Beloved Princess is a town aligned role according to wiki. Having a scum version of it would be super counter productive to town.

[MonkeyMan576]

But it has been a scum role before.

where?

[MonkeyMan576]

interesting. Still unlikely here.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're the best.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't like being on the same wagon as Tucker now that I think about it.

VOTE: MalcomTucker

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't like being on the same wagon as Tucker now that I think about it.

VOTE: MalcomTucker

Out of interest, what changed your mind re voting for me? A while back you seemed pretty comfortable with how I was playing, even when I was voting for you. Strikes me as a bit of an opportunistic vote here.

You seem to think anyone voting for you is opportunistic. I explained my reasoning and you can take me at my word, there is no hidden motive.

[MonkeyMan576]

My vote is not opportunistic. Less than 25% of all players are voting me at the moment, so there is no real pressure to speak of. If anything, given that I am more active than most, the fact that there aren't more people voting me and a lot of players think I am town says something. I like most of the points on MT so far and to me that seems the best place for a vote at the moment. If that changes I'll change my vote.

[MonkeyMan576]

You can vote opportunistically with zero people voting for you, so that seems kinda irrelevant

That was the implication though. I'm not worried about how my vote looks, i'm worried about voting for scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

You can vote opportunistically with zero people voting for you, so that seems kinda irrelevant

That was the implication though. I'm not worried about how my vote looks, i'm worried about voting for scum.

You hadn't particularly been reading me as scum before that though. The opportunism could be coming less from fear you'll be eliminated and more from opportunistic scum perhaps seeing an opportunity to eliminate someone they believe belongs to another faction.

In fact that's probably an important detail to consider when we're pushing here - if you have multiple factions then it's perfectly possible for scum to mask themselves as town with genuine and believable pushes on other players they believe to be scum.

It's possible, but I don't think you can use the multiball setup to save yourself here. I trust Norway more than you at this point. I was suspecting you anyways after you went from voting me to agreeing with me in a blink of an eye. So you can try to deflect the pressure against you by coming up with baseless arguments against me but I don't think it will work and you seem even scummier than before in my book.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think town won pretty easily in the first game actually, right?

[MonkeyMan576]

It was a 170 pg game I doubt they threw it.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

bad feeling bad feeling!

Bad vote.

[MonkeyMan576]

Maybe STD should have chosen a better acronym.

[MonkeyMan576]

I feel like going with the flow.

VOTE: Bnuuy

[MonkeyMan576]

Can anyone honestly say that bnuuy is a bad vote?

[MonkeyMan576]

Can anyone honestly say that bnuuy is a bad vote?

I think it's a very easy vote.

Sometimes a duck is a duck.

[MonkeyMan576]

How often are "slips" actually slips?

[MonkeyMan576]

I would say Wallflower’s last comment is scummier than TB, though, for the piggyback adding momentum to a townie.

If either of them were scum, I’d base it more on luck than TB actually catching them, though

What, you mean day one reads may not be entirely accurate?!?!? What a hot take!

[MonkeyMan576]

Flavor Leaf is actually a good scum player and it's a good reason to be weary of him.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is not alignment indicative.

[MonkeyMan576]

My vote is not opportunistic. Less than 25% of all players are voting me at the moment, so there is no real pressure to speak of. If anything, given that I am more active than most, the fact that there aren't more people voting me and a lot of players think I am town says something. I like most of the points on MT so far and to me that seems the best place for a vote at the moment. If that changes I'll change my vote.

When you have 20 more posts than second place, you're definitely the most active player.
Doesn't mean you're any better than a Q0 item though.

Actually it does.

[MonkeyMan576]

I love playing scum and don't feel bad at all lying. Am I a sociopath?

[MonkeyMan576]

Ask in your scum thread.

[MonkeyMan576]

How many games have pooky and catboi played in together anyways?

[MonkeyMan576]

Who is she an alt of?

[MonkeyMan576]

What is pooky's typing style?

[MonkeyMan576]

I have to admit I don't really like Wallflowers non confrontational approach so far.

VOTE: Wallflower

[MonkeyMan576]

Wrong alt Titus, but there is more often than not going to be many wagons on day one from my experience, especially in large games.

[MonkeyMan576]

I love playing scum and don't feel bad at all lying. Am I a sociopath?

No. People in this game request scum to lie. Lying because requested to is not a bad person at all.

I was being facecious in responce to SoD's comment about feeling bad about being scum. I just found it amusing.

[MonkeyMan576]

Trust me I could definatley go for a SoD wagon, and I've said so.

[MonkeyMan576]

Based on what meta?

[MonkeyMan576]

I agree with ND on this.

[MonkeyMan576]

I do not feel the reasoning for the SoD love.

[MonkeyMan576]

Most of my case is probably wrong, I'm more looking into it trying to make a case that I already know isn't there, so you guys are basically seeing my scratch pad.

Like I said, there just isn't going to be a case for this on Day 1, which is why the "could be" defense is so strong from them.

My gamestate alerts just pinging me so hard with them, but their actual scum work has had a strong invisible effect on the game.

But yeah, my scum read has definitely gotten stronger than it was before. The choices they've made from picking WallFlower on, even the way they chose to interact with me all scum motivated, but looks so townie doing it.

Day 1 sucks.

I agree day 1 sucks, especially in multiball. I've lost count of so many times town tunnel on each other and we eliminate an active voice. Even if I'm wrong, eliminating active voices in multiball is usually a net negative but I lack D1 charisma.

So you're advocating a lurker lynch as policy?

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry elim, old habits and all.

[MonkeyMan576]

What is the likelyhood that he is actually VT in this setup?

[MonkeyMan576]

What is the likelyhood that he is actually VT in this setup?

Previous setup had more than 1 VT i think. So it wouldn’t be that weird.

Yeah but in all likelyhood this is role madness, so at the risk of appeal to probability I feel the chances are low.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay let's talk about catboi

Spoiler: meow

I have thought about this

while at work, while on the bus home, while heating up my frozen lentil soup in the microwave, watching it spin round and round... round and round... and just like that my thoughts on catboi have spun round and round.. round and round...

the key question is.. does catboi actually play like this as scum?

and I don't know for sure. Right now I'm still thinking.. yes, but I don't really share Flavor Leaf's certainty.

so I'm gonna lay it all out there and we'll go on a journey together! and maybe you'll think I'm scum tryharding or whatever. I don't care.

(I do care but I'm gonna pretend I don't)

Actually let's do it pros and cons style. Where the pros section is the part of the microwave that thinks catboi is scum and the cons section is the part of the microwave that thinks catboi is town

THE PROS

(imagine the 21st Century Fox music playing)

Right now I'm looking back over catboi's entrance and it still makes me feel all twitchy.
The whole premise of catboi's reply to Klick's early expressed suspicion is "what exactly are you expecting out of page 1 posting?", which makes logical sense sure, but there's this excessive fixation on it. Not only is there the initial question in Post 70, but then there's the need to explain why this is a normal part of catboi's gameplay in Post 77, quote their posts in disbelief in Post 88 and conclude in Post 100 that it feels like a serious reach with a "*shrug*" that is so incongruent with the preceding series of posts, it appears like a forced attempt to

appear

relaxed. (In particular, noting that Post 100 occurs after a series of votes on Catboi)
But the issue here is that I'm pretty sure it's a totally normal thing for people to start the game off by "suspecting" someone with weak reasoning (how else does a game get moving?), hency my question at the time, asking what exactly catboi was expecting of Klick. It seemed to be very obviously that sort of weak early suspicion that only means marginally more than RVS. So why did it get catboi's whiskers in a twist???
Early Day 1 wagons are also a thing that happen all the time, so what is Post 109 if not an attempt to look like they are trying to solve the game. I don't think an experienced town player gets a silly early Day 1 wagon on them and thinks "there is almost certainly scum hoping for a quicklim here".

*

Lower impact stuff but I thought that catboi's reads felt conveniently positioned as going against the grain, and avoiding being part of any main wagon. For example the resistance to the Malcolm and MonkeyMan wagons, as well as Catboi's main expressed scumreads being people that weren't widely suspected. I wanted to watch this for longer to see how much it was a recurring pattern, and obviously it could just be coincidence, but it was just a thought I had.

*

Then there's the return post-catboiwagon 2.0. Post 1184 still seems totally off to me. Catboi in the post clearly knows that Tracer is gone. The approach of needing to discredit a player who has replaced out feels desperate to me, where I would expect town (particularly town that knows they haven't been their usual activity level) to feel more confident in being correctly read as town. It's as if catboi is compensating for something.

Now, the push on me is what actually has me a bit conflicted.
I didn't like Catboi building their read on me based on me not explaining why they seem panicky to me. -Especially in the moment, I think that sometimes someone will just feel a certain way to you without the words necessarily being there to express it yet. I'm still a bit annoyed that I apparently needed to explain that.
Also, it follows on from the situation with Klick and then with Tracer of Catboi being unable to just let it go when someone suspects them.
And in regards to the vote, based on Catboi's own self-described approach in Post 1206, it seems premature. Catboi asked how they seemed panicky to me, not why I thought they were scum.
And then finally 1224 - implying that I got scared and was running off, after I indicated that I did not have time for more in that moment, from a slot that has also had limited time since gamestart. HMMM

And now we get to....

THE CONS

(dun-dun-DUNNNNNNNNNNNN)

Now I realise there's going to be a lot less here, but the reason for doubting my read is actually a pretty big reason.

Maybe I'm biased, but the overarching impression I get from catboi's push on me is that it's really sloppy? If everyone starts wagoning me then I guess that'll prove me wrong, but in quoting my iso in Post 1208 there is actually a fair number of posts that imo contradict the point made by catboi in the post, which I think wagoned scum making a push would be a bit more careful about. I originally thought it scummy that catboi hadn't read my recent towngame (see Post 1214) before going all in with a vote on me, but then I thought that actually scum would probably think it pretty conspicuous that they hadn't done that, when they'd used meta to read other players unfamiliar to them (e.g. butterchurn) earlier in the game. Also Post 1250 claims that they have more to say when they clearly don't (otherwise they would have said it to try and convince FL later on). But again, this is more townie than scummy imo because town when in SUSPICION MODE will think their reasoning is better than it is while scum will more likely be more aware that they don't have much.

Also i don't really agree with FL's pocket theory.

SO

my conclusion is that, either way, catboi is probably a bit rattled for whatever reason, because I think the suspicion on me hasn't been particularly well thought out regardless of catboi's alignment. and the question is whether it's rattled town or rattled scum. I cooould see the sloppy suspicion making sense from scum needing to DO SOMETHING and being INVESTED could be a new thing to try? There was also always the chance that it would get me all riled up and lead to a 1v1 which people just dismiss as TvT (it seems to happen a lot). OR, catboi just really doesn't like being pressured as either alignment and there are other reasons where things went a bit loopy. IDK. I'm leaning scum, but I'm interested to see what other people think.

Okay that was a lot of words about one slot. If any of you are jealous and want the same done for you then it's probably not happening


PEDIT: I WANT A VOODOO COOKIE

I think this make a few interesting points. I did notice that catboi's reads were often going counter to what is popular at the time, which is actually something that I sometimes look for as something that very experienced players do intentionally as scum. It makes it look like you have unique, independent thought, and it gives you a lot of room to work with, without needing to face the facts of any of your strong reads actually getting eliminated and having it revealed whether you were right or wrong. That said, it's also done because it often effectively imitates said player's town game, so it's not necessarily a tell on its own. The other key point is about catboi acting "off" or "weird" somehow when it comes to pressure on him. I have picked up on this as well, but again, I don't think this necessarily makes him scum -- he said himself that he doesn't always respond very well to pressure as either alignment. So I think I could see the argument for catboi being scum, but I just don't quite feel it myself. When I go back and look at his posts, they just feel more like town to me.

In all though, I think this shows a level of nuance and honest thought process that would be beyond what I would have expected for Wallflower to pull out as scum, so even if I'm not convinced on catboi (I notice that a few others had this same sentiment), I do find myself leaning town on Wallflower.

I'm surprised, because most newer players tend to hate the way FL plays and want to murderise him for it

I found FL's posts so far this game to be fresh and compelling (except for the ones where he's talking about how good he is, but we can ignore those). It seems like he views the game differently than most, and I believe that having the most different angles from which to view the game at allows us the most chance of figuring out where all those angles line up to triangulate the position of where scum are hiding. I'm curious, what did you think about the points regarding catboi's alleged pocket attempts?

I have to admit I don't really like Wallflowers non confrontational approach so far.

VOTE: Wallflower

How many times are we going to let MonkeyMan get away with just joining whatever hot new wagon pops up? Wallflower was 3rd in his townreads in his readlist in 468 (3rd out of 22! That's extremely high!), and I don't see any post where he mentioned her between then and when he voted. He also joined the wagons on MalcolmTucker and bnuuy when those started going up (the latter with an awkward, self-conscious statement of how he is going with the flow). I don't feel like he seriously believes in any of the pushes he is making (when was the last time he talked about Malcolm or bnuuy after switching off of them? Any attempts to re-evaluate or sort?), and is just trying to sheep, not stand out, and isn't really doing any scumhunting of his own. This also doesn't mesh well with some people's earlier stated reasons of why he could be town, which is that he often draws attention to himself and is limbait. Here, though, he seems to have made a deliberate attempt to alter his own playstyle to stay more under the radar ever since the focus died down on him.

I think I shouldn't have ever let myself get convinced that he could be town here.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

I'm pretty sure I haven't stayed under the radar so this is nonsense. And I'm definately not altering my playstyle. You're reference to my limbaity-ness just seems like an excuse to make a scummy push on said limbaity player.

[MonkeyMan576]

Quite frankly, there are 9 scum in the game so jumping on a few wagons is pro town and not pro scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm pretty sure I haven't stayed under the radar so this is nonsense. And I'm definately not altering my playstyle. You're reference to my limbaity-ness just seems like an excuse to make a scummy push on said limbaity player.

This isn't true, your presence in the thread has clearly diminished since people stopped pressuring you as much, and you have made multiple attempts to just "go with the flow". My reference to you being allegedly "limbaity" was only brought up to refute some people's use of it as an excuse for why you shouldn't be suspected, and to point out that your attempts to go with the flow appear to be intentional to avoid being a noticeable target for elimination, which is not something that matches up with the given description of your play. Instead of this deflection, can you instead explain your progression on Wallflower? Why did you find them to be so towny earlier in the game? How does your given reason of a "non confrontational approach" match up with the events in the game so far? I don't think it does at all, given Wallflower's willingness to get in a fight with catboi. That seems like something that a player who wants to play non confrontational would avoid at all costs.

I don't feel like Wallflower was fighting with catboi, as she got upset and said "why so agressive?" or something like that when confronted. I felt Wallflower to be town early based on her activity but I'm not liking her responses and her general attitude so far.

[MonkeyMan576]

i feel like scum would be self aware enough not to just jump on any wagon that comes along

I don't think that someone who is apparently often suspected as town would suddenly become good at looking town when they're scum. Players like that who are experienced enough often will use their town play to their advantage to act blatantly suspicious as scum and people will just call them limbait and townread them for it, just like people are doing here (newer players who fit that mold may make an attempt to look town or coast when they are scum, and usually it's really obvious. MonkeyMan is not a new player). He also

was

self-aware, I don't know why anyone who isn't self-conscious makes that statement of "I feel like going with the flow".

I don't feel like Wallflower was fighting with catboi, as she got upset and said "why so agressive?" or something like that when confronted. I felt Wallflower to be town early based on her activity but I'm not liking her responses and her general attitude so far.

Did you miss her large case on catboi? It's not like she was just deflecting any fight and avoiding getting into a 1v1. She was clearly very willing to do so.

Yeah but from my recollection it was catboi that initiated the back and forth and not her. She seems like the type that is able to defend herself as scum and you have to look a little deeper to figure out her alignment, especially since this alt has apparently not been scum before.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

[MonkeyMan576]

If I were scum my partners would probably bus me rather than protect me, lol.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to

Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to

Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.

How many beloved princesses were there?

I'm not sure but obviously the likelyhood of a correlation to VT in the previous game setup is more likely than a BP.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to

Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.

How many beloved princesses were there?

I'm not sure but obviously the likelyhood of a correlation to VT in the previous game setup is more likely than a BP.

This seems like an entirely fruitless discussion.

VTs are clearly possibly in this set up, both because of the last set up, and because the mod explicitly said so in the OP.

Saying that the odds that someone is a any role is low, because it was out of the x playerlist is also a useless endeavor. Like, if someone claims cop, you shouldn't immediately doubt they are cop because there can only be 1 cop out of the player list, so that player only has a 1/X chance to get the cop role.

I don't think it's fruitless. SoD claimed a role with zero pressure on him which seems kind of dumb. So I think it's entirely appropriate to ask if that's really his role or not.

[MonkeyMan576]

I have reason to believe Mastina and not SoD.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

Ok, but that’s a dumb reason to suspect someone unless you also find them suspicious for other reasons.

His unwillingness to engage, and he seems to know more about playing the game than he is letting on.

[MonkeyMan576]

Spoiler:

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to

Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.

How many beloved princesses were there?

I'm not sure but obviously the likelyhood of a correlation to VT in the previous game setup is more likely than a BP.

This seems like an entirely fruitless discussion.

VTs are clearly possibly in this set up, both because of the last set up, and because the mod explicitly said so in the OP.

Saying that the odds that someone is a any role is low, because it was out of the x playerlist is also a useless endeavor. Like, if someone claims cop, you shouldn't immediately doubt they are cop because there can only be 1 cop out of the player list, so that player only has a 1/X chance to get the cop role.

I don't think it's fruitless. SoD claimed a role with zero pressure on him which seems kind of dumb. So I think it's entirely appropriate to ask if that's really his role or not.

Monkey Man, I feel like you are semi-consistently not responding to the points actually being made, but instead to points tangentially related to the point being made. It makes dialogue with you somewhat frustrating.

Well direct me to the question that was missed and I'd be happy to respond.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't see a purpose of scum claiming to be VT and locking themselves in this early.

You can’t see me but I’m making a face where I’m frowning and my lips are pushed together and pulled back into my mouth

It’s meant to convey extreme scepticism

Newbie VT claims are real 99% of the time. And I believe SoD's claims of their experience level.

That may be true in a normal game but this is not a normal game.

[MonkeyMan576]

So maybe SoD is "townie, but scum." Not that I buy the townie part.

[MonkeyMan576]

Shouldn't we be clueless on day one?

[MonkeyMan576]

Bnuuy didn't go anywhere last time seems like beating a dead horse.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm happy with where I am atm.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm happy with where I am atm.

I thought you were after voting for viable wagons?

Depends on the wagon and the timing.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry for shading you bnuuy. I think you are town now.

[MonkeyMan576]

Pushing mastina was scummy at the time.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm glad we have FL to tell us when bad wagons are over.

[MonkeyMan576]

So either catboi or wallflower is the correct elim for today.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not voting for anyone but catboi or wallflower the rest of the day.

[MonkeyMan576]

Catboi Cover Crew:

Menalque
Butterchurn
Nashville

i feel like there was one more....

You are scum reading them?

[MonkeyMan576]

How many scum on that bnuuy wagon?l

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly. Maybe just because I was raised in the mafia of an earlier time, but I tend to have more inertia than is typical on this site these days. It takes me longer to turn towards scumreading or voting someone, and once I do, it takes me longer to turn away. These sorts of speed wagons rising up and falling away are not really something that's familiar to me. It feels closer to chat mafia at times. Which is not always a bad thing, but it may mean that I should be relying a bit more on gut reads. I agree with Menalque, though, that there's no point in wagoning for pressure if the pressure drops away at the slightest hint of a towny response. This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.

I think the wagon was super scummy. Makes bnuuy lock town and catboi or wallflower likely scum.

I think Menalque just lives in Catboi's pocket, and did what he could to get pressure off of catboi. I think Menalque jumped in by themselves, for the most part.

Menalque's see my towngame and my scumgame, and this isn't my scumgame.

how many times has he caught scum you?

Like you wouldn't say that as scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's possible cat and flower are scum.l

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm starting to feel ill so I must question my reads from this morning.

Can someone briefly give me points where they feel I'm wrong besides catboi is too town to be town?

~Titus

You showed up late. You need to look at that bnuuy wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

I have reason to believe Mastina and not SoD.

And that is?

VT is a lot easier to fake than BP. Mastina has meta showing her early claming.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

Ok, but that’s a dumb reason to suspect someone unless you also find them suspicious for other reasons.

His unwillingness to engage, and he seems to know more about playing the game than he is letting on.

you realize he's said he's played like 4 games before, right? I think you're pulling justification out of your ass here.

How many games before you can have a conversation with someone?

[MonkeyMan576]

Good thing there's no rush to elim CB.

[MonkeyMan576]

yeah my second job is a stand up comedian.

[MonkeyMan576]

VOTE: Catboi

[MonkeyMan576]

i think bnuuy is overthinking things.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unless it doesn't.

[MonkeyMan576]

I want to know!

[MonkeyMan576]

seems like an unfair advantage if you ask me.

[MonkeyMan576]

Hmmm...Catboi: Yes Wallflower: Yes, Nashville....nope not on that list.

[MonkeyMan576]

why not just stick with catboi?

[MonkeyMan576]

butterchurn is much less towny than he used to be.

[MonkeyMan576]

Don't text and drive.

[MonkeyMan576]

The other possibility is Mastina is a jester because it seems like she wants to get night killed

[MonkeyMan576]

Jesters can be night killed and still win as per wiki.

[MonkeyMan576]

Figures, the day I'm on top of things all is quiet. School rules waste a lot of time for this mafia player...arggggggggg

What’s on your mind? Who is scum?

[MonkeyMan576]

@SoD do you know what fencesitting is and why it's bad?

[MonkeyMan576]

This game feels much more complete with SoD actually discussing the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

This game feels much more complete with SoD actually discussing the game.

Now do you want to tell me what fencesitting is or not?

It's when you don't want to take a position on an issue or a player to avoid having pressure if you're wrong.

[MonkeyMan576]

That's not what it looks like though.

[MonkeyMan576]

It looks like you are switzerland in World War II, which isn't the morally correct position.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'd have to think about it I'm working at the moment.

Catboi and Wallflower for sure.

[MonkeyMan576]

I mean I'm not going to eliminate anyone but those two so it doesn't really matter but I'll get a more detailed scum list in a bit.

[MonkeyMan576]

Slip much?

[MonkeyMan576]

Not to mention she is scumreading me when I am the towniest player in the game. J/K.

[MonkeyMan576]

I would think it would be more beneficial for scum to wait to kill until they know more about the setup, but that's just me.

[MonkeyMan576]

First Tier Scum
Catboi
Wallflower

Second Tier Scum
Meg
Bnuuy
Klick
Menalque

Third Tier Scum or Town
Everyone Else

[MonkeyMan576]

Odds on Mastina's alignment:
Town(70%)
Scum(30%)

I just realized Mastina can't be a jester because the setup is pre-revealed. And while Mastina could be scum I am against eliminating her and find the idea of doing so scummy in general, but not as scummy as the bnuuy wagon.

[MonkeyMan576]

I wouldn't say that. That's her odds in a vacuum, not compared to every other player in the game. She's kind of put herself out there with the BP claim.

[MonkeyMan576]

Looking over Mastina's last game I can see she is an extremely high content poster and contributed to her towns win as a Town Mason. I am not comfortable with eliming her as a claimed BP. Based on the claim she is the player I would last like to see eliminated. In fact anyone proposing her elimination I am extremely suspicious of now that I think about it.

Monkey, where do you stand re this given recent pushes on Mastina? I'm unsure on the slot but I don't think your post here is entirely unreasonable, however unsure if you've changed since you don't appear to be pushing particularly hard on players you initially thought would have been scummy for pushing Mastina at all D1.

Didn't see this until late. I am against the BP pushes, although I kinda see where they are coming from. It's kinda like getting a VI policy eliminated, you have to do it out of necessity because you don't want it dominating the endgame. But here I just don't see this as a gambit from mastina, I could be wrong but I doubt it and in general I personally am against policy eliminations.

[MonkeyMan576]

Hey, at least he's voting. Baby steps.

[MonkeyMan576]

So, this is mostly a role madness game, based on the previous game. This means any claims are more than likely going to be power roles.

We need to consider this when we decide if we are going to allow someone to live based on their most likely power roles upcoming claim.

We can't really wait for someone to claim VT, and then hope that it's a less valuable member of the game potential VT.

[MonkeyMan576]

For the record, the original games setup:

The Resistance - Town Vanilla
Dannflor - Town Vanilla
Kakeguri Addcits - Town Vanilla
morph the cat - Town Mason Roleblocker
petapan - Town Odd Night Seer
Vaxkiller - Town Veteran
Celestial Powerhouse - Town Mason Two Shot Vigilante
Kazyan - Town Doctor
Taco Hemingway - Town Even Night Occoultist
unwnd - Town One Shot Wolfsbane
Lukewarm - Town One Shot Wolfsbane Monk
Mastina - Town Monk
Uncle Shelby - Town Monk
Ythan - Town Hirsute Even Night Cop
Pooky - Town Cleric
WhemeStar - Melefactor Wiccan One Shot Neighborizor
ManateeDude - Werewolf One Shot Bulletproof Mason
DrippingGoofball - Werwolf Odd Night Gunsmith
Anya - Werewolf One Shot Strongman
Echolocation - Mafia One Shot Bulletproof One Shot Strongman
CheekyTeeky - Mafia Diabolist
Vecna - Mafia Miller Nonconsecutive Night Tracker

[MonkeyMan576]

Also notable that the town won easily and the mod felt the need to add a member to each scum team at the expense of two townies.

[MonkeyMan576]

Do you ever think that being self centered might be anti-productive to town if you are town, Flavor Leaf?

[MonkeyMan576]

I don’t think anything FL has done so far is not something town!them would do.

I don’t care how scummy or manipulative y’all think he’s been.

Is his scum game that different than his town game?

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, worked 8 hours late yesterday and 8 hours this morning but I'm done for awhile now, I can pay some more attention to the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

it doesn't seem like much has changed since I left except for a lot of noisy arguments.

[MonkeyMan576]

Catboi

-Well Done-

Menalque

-SCP have scum in them somewhere.

[MonkeyMan576]

@SCP why not vote on one of the leading wagons, do you think they are both town?

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not gonna die on the tictac is town hill, though, they could be scum.

I won't be voting there because it just feels like it's a Catboi defense.

The fact it starts right after they come in and vote Catboi and MonkeyMan comes back in just makes me feel scum pings somewhere.

I'm making you feel scummy?

[MonkeyMan576]

@SCP why not vote on one of the leading wagons, do you think they are both town?

I have significantly higher confidence in the wagons I want to push specifically.

And they already have the pressure there -> I have no issue pressuring the low posters I think are solidly in scum meta.

You don't think players that have been playing the game for a week might have more insight than you? What makes you so confident?

[MonkeyMan576]

Catboi seems like he's trying to get us to forget the gamestate reasons for scumreading him by hyper posting and trying to look town. He is still scum imo.