KTaNE [game over!]

[VP Baltar]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly! where are the freaking kills. this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

[VP Baltar]

Let's live and let die.

I'll be back in a couple days.

For now, I have some knowledge and a plan.

gonna reiterate, if you have knowledge that helps solve this mess, please share it. I feel like we are blundering around and you're kind of toying with people why?

I'm also starting to get concerned that someone in the PRs are lying. Andante and Titus both claiming info roles now? Plus all the dead bodies, plus my role? Something stinks.

[VP Baltar]

2.) VP was the one with the most reason to explode the bomb there. He was both best positioned in terms of being townread the most, and as someone with two defuses already under his belt he was almost certainly going to flipped at some point, meaning if he can take out two or three townies in exchange for his life before he gets flipped it would be extremely worth it, especially since one of them was the doctor.

Did you ignore this paragraph

If this was my plan, why am I not opening today trying to cut your head off? It's clearly counterfactual to how I'm even playing here. If I was scum, I have no reason to even consider you're town...and in fact, that just makes my lim more likely.

Do you think I'd be afraid to 1v1 you?

[VP Baltar]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly!

where are the freaking kills.

this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

If

you're town, scum should only have 2 NKs total. One was Greeting. The other can be explained away by Andres' protection.

What do you mean "where are the kill

s

" (plural)?

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

[VP Baltar]

notice how VP hasn’t gone back to being defuser… scum team knows he explodes if he goes back, so why wouldn’t town!vp go back to defusing???

I have a thought on this, but I can't really elaborate on it without full claiming.

[VP Baltar]

either im missing something important or there is guaranteed to be scum in the pt last night

it troubles me that pooky didn't already say this

Can you explain this, or...?

[VP Baltar]

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

Three protectives seems OP?

Could be roleblock I suppose, but also seems to fall into OP territory given how many PRs are already flipped.

What we know about scum so far is they have some kind of switching ability, and they were informed about something. So yeah, it doesn't make fucking sense from my perspective at all. Or if you believe there is a third protective/RB, then you should think scum have more power, possibly to fuck with experts. Even if scum had something like a role cop, I don't see how it counters something like three protectives.

[VP Baltar]

Also I'm very surprised you're claiming PR here cause I don't know if you've really been playing like a PR

I hinted my PR way back. It's more defensive than anything, so I have nothing to lose just playing like VT.

[VP Baltar]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly!

where are the freaking kills.

this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

If

you're town, scum should only have 2 NKs total. One was Greeting. The other can be explained away by Andres' protection.

What do you mean "where are the kill

s

" (plural)?

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

To be clear, the slip is that you (VP Baltar) know there are 2 missing NKs.

There can only be 2 missing NKs if you're scum.

This is very dumb. Believe what you want. I have like 8 more pages to catch up on, so let me do that. I'm not going to argue this point with you.

[VP Baltar]

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

Three protectives seems OP?

Could be roleblock I suppose, but also seems to fall into OP territory given how many PRs are already flipped.

What we know about scum so far is they have some kind of switching ability, and they were informed about something. So yeah, it doesn't make fucking sense from my perspective at all. Or if you believe there is a third protective/RB, then you should think scum have more power, possibly to fuck with experts. Even if scum had something like a role cop, I don't see how it counters something like three protectives.

I don't really know about balance.

The protectives that have flipped don't seem to be able to protect the bomb defuser.

Which means that once we hit 3 defusals (where we're at now), the protectives would've been pretty useless... so it doesn't seem that out of balance to me.

if there are three protectives, it means scum's odds of winning by elims would be TERRIBLE. So the mod would essentially be forcing them into a situation where they have to win by defusals...which seems extremely unlikely because town can just nuke every bomb from here to eternity if they ever SUSPECT scum have defused. Look at me and how scum are benefiting from that WIFOM right now.

What you're saying makes no sense, and you don't have to be a balance expert to even see that.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I'm caught up now. Thankfully, a lot of it was just shitposting from Enchant and pooky.

[VP Baltar]

ATP you're very unlikely to win it if you 1v1d me.

Yeah, because of the way I am playing the day. If I was scum intent on killing you and strange as my final acts, I have no reason to open the day expressing my own doubt of that. I just double barrel you. I can shit post with the best of them.

Sadly, your terrible wall is so tinfoil, it makes me suspect even more that you could be town. No scum is going to open the day with their case being "VP wished andres happy birthday, and he was townread before bomb, therefore, scum!"

that's about the worst case I've read in a long time and only a townie wraps that in aluminum to say they've caught the whole scum team.

[VP Baltar]

Okay so where do you think the kills went?

no clue. Maybe scum are creating enough wifom to get through the VP and dwlee kills and then are going to have kills and start blowing up bombs to accelerate the game. I bet the numbers reflect that if dwlee and I are dead, and then scum start blowing up bombs with kills every night, they win pretty quickly.

[VP Baltar]

Meanwhile, Mistyx just aloofs in here and says she'll vote me when she's like never scum read me before.

[VP Baltar]

If the plan was to stockpile kills, then the Greeting kill N3 is pretty weird

Why? Greeting and andante both claimed PRs on like D2

[VP Baltar]

This conversation is dumb though. You're asking me to explain why scum aren't killing when your viewpoint is I'm scum and therefore scum have like many more NKs. So why aren't scum killing if I'm scum? If scum had that many kills and I had two defusals, they'd be laughing to the bank and killing away stacking bodies, not trying to hide and keep me alive.

Pedit - @ csf

[VP Baltar]

yea im sure scum you would be blazing away with the machine guns and making it super obvious you are scum

you have convinced me

Yeah, I would. I'd be laughing at all you dorks for letting me defuse two bombs and there'd be bodies to prove it.

Like if I'm scum, do I believe town is going to let me defuse more bombs? What's the play?

[VP Baltar]

so you're saying if you're scum

and you have successful defusals

you would shoot up this town

to make it obvious that scum defused the bomb overnight?

If I'm scum with 2 defusals, I would have already poisoned the entire well for the town, so who cares? In fact, me flipping just makes defusals almost impossible for town to trust in that world. So yeah.

HEAL: mena

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty sure VP townreads me because he is literally factionally informed I'm town but okay

This is an insane thing to say. If you want me to scum case you, I can read lots of your posts with bad intent.

I'm trying to right this game state and willing to risk my lim to do it because I think if someone doesn't correct course, we are headed to a very bad game state.

You should take a step back and think about what I would actually gain from approaching the game this way as scum (nothing), and then help me lim mistyx.

[VP Baltar]

Fuck if dwlee is actually scum here I'm gonna be so pissed at myself.

[VP Baltar]

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I already would have had two defusals before there was a risk, yeah? This makes no sense.

[VP Baltar]

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I already would have had two defusals before there was a risk, yeah? This makes no sense.

I don't follow what makes no sense about it

Scum start the game with 1 kill.

I defuse N1.
Scum have 2 kills, kill N1.
I defuse N2.
Scum have 2 kills. Kill N2.
Town ZOMG VP IS SCUM! Lim VP.
Scum kill N3, town worried rest of game about defusals, never let defusals happen.

As opposed to what are you proposing? Scum have like 3 NKs or something they are sitting on? For what reason? To keep me alive when I was always going to get limmed at some point for having two defusals?

[VP Baltar]

just from a risk mitigation standpoint shouldn't we just flip VPB

if he's town then mafia are nowhere close to winning and we kill dwlee tomm

This is scum right here and exactly what I'm saying scum are doing.

[VP Baltar]

So rational. So easy. OBEY.

[VP Baltar]

It's day 5 and you're still alive?

You really this dense as town?

[VP Baltar]

It's day 5 and you're still alive?

You really this dense as town?

You're arguing that my argument doesn't make sense cause you'd get limmed day three but it's day five what am I missing

Do you think what I'm saying or what you're saying is the more likely outcome? Which furthers scum win cons more?

[VP Baltar]

No shit I'm alive. Unless I'm nostradomus, pretty sure that's not relevant to what I'm saying.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: dwlee

Cool. I think you're a smart person and not this ridiculous. You can die now.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't say that was why I wouldn't have defused. I'm saying if I was scum, I would have killed and laughed at actually getting two defusals. What are you even talking about????

[VP Baltar]

And then you said how does that make sense.

And then I explained very clearly how that makes sense.

And now you're playing dumb or something

[VP Baltar]

Just straight trolling me

[VP Baltar]

It wouldn't matter when you kill. A number is a number. This is nonsense. Scum have to lim the same number of people to win start to finish. There's no way I make an endgame situation after two defusals, so your 3:3 is silly in a VP!scum world.

[VP Baltar]

If you lim mistyx and then me you could

In a scum me world, why wouldn't I just lim you first and then try to get mistyx? A bird in hand etc.

The simpler answer is I'm town. Starting to think you're scum with mistyx and and that's why you're so dead set on killing me today. If you were town, you'd have similar worries to me about the game state.

[VP Baltar]

Two kill example in a 8:1 9p cause I don't feel like doing multiple scum odds:

Chance of limming scum each day assuming haven't limmed correctly yet:

(Kill two at start, then none):
1/9, 1/7, 1/5, 1/4, 1/3, scum win

Kill two at end:
1/9, 1/8, 1/7, 1/5, 1/3, scum win

Note the 1/8 chance of limming correctly vs 1/4 (math is more complicated than this but shows they're not equivalent EV)

This isn't a 9p game and doesn't factor in the fact scum can get multiple kills in a phase.

[VP Baltar]

It would make the pool smaller if town start blowing every bomb and scum held kills to the end.

[VP Baltar]

if all the bomb experts give the correct information about the bomb, the defuser will successfully defuse the bomb, and will survive the night.
if any of the bomb experts give incorrect information, the bomb will explode, and the defuser will die.

This is you citing the rule? Like wtf? That says nothing about scum abilities. What are you talking about?

[VP Baltar]

If scum can alter expert submissions, then the wrong info is submitted.

The rules also say town select experts, and yet we have seen that change. That mean the mod is lying?

[VP Baltar]

Are you gonna respond to 4568 or nah

Enchant quickhammer?

[VP Baltar]

He probably mean 4668

I did respond to that

[VP Baltar]

I don’t think anyone made a mistake with the bomb and I think the scum team blew up the doc and this argument is terrible and remains terrible.

I've already demonstrated its not terrible though, based upon what we have seen with how the scum can mess with the bomb PTs.

Dwlee thinks the mod is a liar....which is actually silly. So we can lim dwlee then, but I'm telling you that fmpov, something weird is happening.

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Vote dwlee.

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty sure VP townreads me because he is literally factionally informed I'm town but okay

This is an insane thing to say. If you want me to scum case you, I can read lots of your posts with bad intent.

I'm trying to right this game state and willing to risk my lim to do it because I think if someone doesn't correct course, we are headed to a very bad game state.

You should take a step back and think about what I would actually gain from approaching the game this way as scum (nothing), and then help me lim mistyx.

So you ask what you'd gain as scum from not trying to lim me

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I point out if you are successful in evading a 1v1 with me that you don't get limmed and that you don't confirm that scum have 2 defusals towards their 4 defusal win con.

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I already would have had two defusals before there was a risk, yeah? This makes no sense.

I don't follow what makes no sense about it

Scum start the game with 1 kill.

I defuse N1.
Scum have 2 kills, kill N1.
I defuse N2.
Scum have 2 kills. Kill N2.
Town ZOMG VP IS SCUM! Lim VP.
Scum kill N3, town worried rest of game about defusals, never let defusals happen.

As opposed to what are you proposing? Scum have like 3 NKs or something they are sitting on? For what reason? To keep me alive when I was always going to get limmed at some point for having two defusals?

And now I have no fucking clue how what you're saying is relevant. What does any of this have to do with you positioning to try to lim mistyx instead of me? Nothing. There's no connection. I have no idea what you're even attempting to say

I am merging the arguments that both you and csf are making a but at this point. You're both going on about hiding defusals and when to use NKs, but my point is that after two defusals REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT, town should never let me defuse again.

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

AHAHHHAHHHAHAHAHhahhahHHHhBhHHBhah
IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Okay but just flip scum instead? Also if I flipped scum that actually wouldn't tell you VP's alignment

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Okay but just flip scum instead? Also if I flipped scum that actually wouldn't tell you VP's alignment

AHAHHHAHHHAHAHAHhahhahHHHhBhHHBhah

[VP Baltar]

Btw Datisi said it could be possible that there is a scum role that can blow up a bomb without being in the expert pt

I do not want to believe this because that would be fucking stupid

WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Vote dwlee.

Wow, you realised?

This is what I get for trying to trust my own reads and ability to play this stupid game.

A FOOL. A FOOL.

[VP Baltar]

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

It's literally -EV for scum to use kills early and also would get you limmed easier. Why would I believe you would do something obviously umoptimal as scum? Do the math yourself and see that saving kills for later days increases scum win odds

You're still talking about only math, which is not my strength, so I'll trust you, but kills are way more than that. Kills shape the game for scum. He'll, after N1 we had 3 people claiming PRs! One was a doc! Which do you think hurts scum chances more, letting that live or saving kills for a hypothetical end state?

You're trying to argue semantics rather than the realities of the game in a world where you imagine I'm scum.

[VP Baltar]

It is not the only factor. In fact, it isn't even always the most important factor when you're talking about a game involving humans.

So yeah, you're trying to make a semantic point about optimal play in a vacuum rather than the reality of this game.

[VP Baltar]

Honestly baltar if you're town then Datisi is hard trolling us and I want out

He literally just told you it is possible! How this did not occur to you is wild af

[VP Baltar]

Yea but that is fucking troll idc if he is now telling me it's possible when I ask him if he did that it's literally evil and unbalanced as fuck

How is it unbalanced?

[VP Baltar]

It's essentially 3 guaranteed scum mislims that's why

Not if someone looks at the switches and actually thinks about it for 5 seconds. This is what I mean by being intentionally obtuse

[VP Baltar]

1.) The doc didn't need to be killed if scum weren't going to kill anyway, and also could be blown up (happened)
2.) The one kill that did go through was on someone who scumread you, exactly what you mean by "shaping gamestate"
3.) We don't know what scum informed knowledge is, but scum could know what PRs to be afraid of etc.

1) if you're scum who want to kill ever, you need to kill the doc. Why would I as scum put a doc as a defuser to draw suspicion on myself rather than just kill them????
2) who hasn't scum read me, but yeah pretty fucking convenient that happens the night I'm about to get sussed hard.
3) how would scum know what PRs andante and greeting are?

[VP Baltar]

If scum can blow up everything, why they won't do it AT FIRST NIGHT FOR 4 MISELIMS?

I doubt it would be unlimited. That would be broken

[VP Baltar]

It's essentially 3 guaranteed scum mislims that's why

Not if someone looks at the switches and actually thinks about it for 5 seconds. This is what I mean by being intentionally obtuse

But then everyone goes "no way someone is scum in the group kill kill kill"

Yeah, and when strange didn't flip scum after looking the most obvious, you would rationally at least consider if another factor was in play. I'm speculating it is altering expert info, but if I am trusting my reads and not just blindly following the "correct" play, then I need to think about that.

Look at that game we just finished. Nero got all the town killed in the hood there because the "correct" play was that 1 of the 4 had to be scum. He made the game annoying as fuck screaming at town me for days on end, then I died, then he died. There are other factors there and I know you weren't there for that part of the game, but it was an unpleasant experience for me and I don't want to blindly follow what is the supposed right play without thinking about the mod mindset.

[VP Baltar]

If scum can blow up everything, why they won't do it AT FIRST NIGHT FOR 4 MISELIMS?

I doubt it would be unlimited. That would be broken

How to ez win:
1. Force atleast one group of clear town experts on first day. Not really hard, just "refuse" to participate.
2. Make someone you dislike defuser.
3. Explode them.
4. Wow chain of 4 elims+5 blowed up.

And there's literally NO reason to make this ability "Expect for first night" or other shit. It's more easier for this ability to not exist.

Frogsters ability allowed him to manipulate bomb outcomes for town.

[VP Baltar]

But there was scum in that hood

Hoods are much more WIFOM though than something like this imo

This whole game seems to be built on wifom if you ask me.

[VP Baltar]

Funniest world is that there is a scum role that can do what VP is describing but they used it N1 on catboi and VP is still scum here

Uh....is dwlee TMIing scum here?

How do you go from "that's too broken to exist" to "here is an even more tinfoil theory so I can still call VP scum!"

[VP Baltar]

Uh....is dwlee TMIing scum here?

Dwlee99 is scum?

You sure?

Can't be this weird as town, right?

[VP Baltar]

Help me lim mystix then

[VP Baltar]

you guys keep quickhammering while im catching up or getting into thread and then blaming me for doing nothing

like wow i only posted three times yesterday on easter!! oh no!!

Oh yea it was Easter, forgot about that

vp loltunneling me just makes me think he realized if he kills dwlee then he just goes down next so he's trying to push me in the way first to buy time

Well yea

Shakespeare

[VP Baltar]

I can hard clear dwlee. just vote VP thanks

Nobody believes you are hard clearing anyone. Also, if you're an investigator, then why not investigate me last night, the person you were scum reading all fucking game?

[VP Baltar]

I believe andante

This is a shocking development

[VP Baltar]

Andante lying to "help" as town would probably be the most andante thing ever

[VP Baltar]

You magically can't confirm alignment on your only consistent scum read all game. I definitely believe that is truth.

[VP Baltar]

okay, so andante, when we say the words "hard clear" do you mean "the mod has confirmed MECHANICALLY that dwlee is town to me in private" or do you mean "

literally anything other than that

"?

I mean there is no possible way Dwlee is mafia

okay, I need you to use the word "mechanically" when you say this to me, if there is a mechanical basis behind it

ok, there's like a 1% chance Dwlee *could* be maf, but I have the same certainty as Strange with this result. I lied to yall about bomb stuff, I do nothing with bomb, but I think scum bought it so that was funny, but I'm basically a JOAT that does stuff. Dwlee is not mafia.

Here we go again.

[VP Baltar]

does Andy!scum fake a mech clear on her scum partner Dwlee when Dwlee is already winning the 1v1

I mean you can't really think this

Sure why not? Tomorrow when I flip green, she just says LOL WELL I THOUGHT I WAS RIGHT

And everyone says "Oh Andy!"

And then the theme song to Family Matters starts playing in the background.

[VP Baltar]

Andy can't explain not finding a guilty or clearing her top scum read. Why?

"Oh Andy!"

[VP Baltar]

BAH BUH DADA DUH BAH BAP

Full House is filmed in front of a live studio audience

[VP Baltar]

VP still voting me weird champ

Why? You're being intentionally obtuse. Clearly my good faith read was misplaced. You need to die. Bad move on your part to save your buddy mistyx.

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee is either VT or a Goon.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

[VP Baltar]

Hard clear

[VP Baltar]

how many more votes to yeet VP, and where are they?

Yeah, better shut me up before this goes on much longer for sure

[VP Baltar]

God, Andante never change

Remember when you said you believed her. Good times.

[VP Baltar]

I got work to do. I'll be back for some more dwlee-andante-mystix gaslight hour later

[VP Baltar]

Anyone else getting cold feet?

Totally reasonable town mindset from VPB rn to say I'm scum cause I don't buy into the "Datisi is a total fucking troll and decided to make this game of the suffering of 3 unfortunate townies and the person that should not have been exploded" world theory

A point you allegedly confirmed with the mod. Keep calling me the crazy one.

Fact: scum can mess with defusers

Fact: fogster had a role that can affect bomb outcomes for town

Fact: mod says scum could affect bomb outcomes

Dwlee: VP is crazy, that would never be possible. Also what if scum used that ability on catboi (WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUGGGGGGGGGG)

[VP Baltar]

can we not mindlessly throw around the word gaslight please

Sorry. Not making light of real life gaslighting. Just feel like I'm being openly trolled here

[VP Baltar]

But from outside the PT that is absolute madness and yes Datisi confirmed it COULD exist but that doesn't mean it does

It doesn't mean it doesn't though. Shit, WHT are you trolling me

[VP Baltar]

But my brain said it doesn't exist

Hard clear then. Kill me

[VP Baltar]

Oh and if Andres fucked up the bomb kodak moment

I will legit throw my phone through the wall

[VP Baltar]

I can hard clear dwlee. just vote VP thanks

Nobody believes you are hard clearing anyone. Also, if you're an investigator, then why not investigate me last night, the person you were scum reading all fucking game?

Kinda weird for you to not believe she has a clear though when that would fit your worldview that you+dwlee are town

Why hasn't she investigated me? That's why I don't believe it. Dwlee is also trolling me, so clearly I was wrong to good faith my read there.

[VP Baltar]

I think I asked to get copped on like day 2.

[VP Baltar]

I ALWAYS vote VP here, then tomorrow deal with that if I'm alive

Hahahahaha

"Oh Andy!"

[VP Baltar]

Thought you were JOAT?

[VP Baltar]

Also, you see one flip and declare mafia have no goons. This is not real.

[VP Baltar]

it makes sense actually that any argument about scum definitely having x role can come from this sort of situation. i feel like i see that routinely and can leak into the thread out of annoyance

I don't quite follow what you're saying here.

[VP Baltar]

VP is probably, but not certainly guilty. I like his play but people voting him despite my implication suggest he's scum.

What is this supposed to mean? What implication?

[VP Baltar]

I have implied I investigated you last night.

I get that. I don't get how you go from "I implied a guilty, people vote VP, therefore he is scum"

[VP Baltar]

so you have VP guilty… said nothing… I had no need to out my stuff… I hate this game

She can't have a guilty because there isn't a guilty to get.

Town cannot play this game, I swear.

[VP Baltar]

my understanding was she implied an inno?

I read the "attempted to visit" as implying some shady business.

Titus, can you please clarify whatever you're doing?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, if Titus wants to claim a straight guilty, let's go.

[VP Baltar]

VP why haven't you claimed

Am I at E-1?

[VP Baltar]

I'll wait. There is plenty of malarkey going on that needs to get cleared up before I let you mislim me

[VP Baltar]

The implied visit was an attempt to secure an accurate read on VP. The hood established a crumb section for me since I claimed a cop in our thread. I could not actually check anyone. However by implying I had a result on whichever Dwlee or VP got ran up, it would be more likely the result was correct.

Our crumb system had me document who I "checked". I deliberately started with my first post outside of that range.

If my hood had a scum, they would waste roleblocking or kills on me.

I'm so confused.

So you fake claimed a cop in a bomb PT, then fake claimed a result today....how is this implying that whoever got run up is "more likely" the correct result?

[VP Baltar]

VPB I don't get why your reason for thinking I'm scum is still that you think I'm being "obtuse" and not cause Andres is fucking dead

Obviously you killed andres. I initially thought, 'well I don't see a lot scummy in dwlee's day play, could something else be happening here?' Then I express this thought today, and you proceed to exploit that to piledrive me by ignoring all the evidence to the contrary of me possibly being scum. And then when I explain that evidence, you act like your brains are made of concrete when we all know they are not.

So yeah, you killed andres and I never said that's not the case if you're scum. Example No. 500 of you acting like you can't understand basic conversation.

[VP Baltar]

But you were the one that completely misunderstood conversation and are still ignoring the post where I went over that despite me linking it two or three times

I replied directly to that post. Cripes

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty sure VP townreads me because he is literally factionally informed I'm town but okay

This is an insane thing to say. If you want me to scum case you, I can read lots of your posts with bad intent.

I'm trying to right this game state and willing to risk my lim to do it because I think if someone doesn't correct course, we are headed to a very bad game state.

You should take a step back and think about what I would actually gain from approaching the game this way as scum (nothing), and then help me lim mistyx.

So you ask what you'd gain as scum from not trying to lim me

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I point out if you are successful in evading a 1v1 with me that you don't get limmed and that you don't confirm that scum have 2 defusals towards their 4 defusal win con.

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I already would have had two defusals before there was a risk, yeah? This makes no sense.

I don't follow what makes no sense about it

Scum start the game with 1 kill.

I defuse N1.
Scum have 2 kills, kill N1.
I defuse N2.
Scum have 2 kills. Kill N2.
Town ZOMG VP IS SCUM! Lim VP.
Scum kill N3, town worried rest of game about defusals, never let defusals happen.

As opposed to what are you proposing? Scum have like 3 NKs or something they are sitting on? For what reason? To keep me alive when I was always going to get limmed at some point for having two defusals?

And now I have no fucking clue how what you're saying is relevant. What does any of this have to do with you positioning to try to lim mistyx instead of me? Nothing. There's no connection. I have no idea what you're even attempting to say

I am merging the arguments that both you and csf are making a but at this point. You're both going on about hiding defusals and when to use NKs, but my point is that after two defusals REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT, town should never let me defuse again.

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

FOR YOUR OBTUSE CONVENIENCE

[VP Baltar]

Because scum know the answer. Scum are unlikely to push to miseliminate someone if they believe there's an innocent. They are likely to bus if they think there's a guilty.

So you're saying a) your PT last night was scum free because you are alive b) scum are bussing me.

Who is scum again?

[VP Baltar]

VP that post has no relevance at all to you not trying to lim me at the start of the day...

Why do you keep talking in circles? You said I didn't reply to you asking questions, I post that I actually did, then you say that's not relevant to this other thing you didn't say!

I'm not going to keep doing this because you're just openwolfing me and it is starting to piss me off.

[VP Baltar]

Like, are you just trying to get me titled? You've already duped enough town to possibly lim me today, is that necessary?

What do you think about andante and Titus both faking information on me today and then claiming the fake info is definitely reason to kill me. Makes complete sense and always happens to scum, I'm sure.

[VP Baltar]

The implied visit was an attempt to secure an accurate read on VP. The hood established a crumb section for me since I claimed a cop in our thread. I could not actually check anyone. However by implying I had a result on whichever Dwlee or VP got ran up, it would be more likely the result was correct.

Our crumb system had me document who I "checked". I deliberately started with my first post outside of that range.

If my hood had a scum, they would waste roleblocking or kills on me.

hence everything i said earlier. i thought titus was claiming roleblocked when she crumbed something that wasn't in our code and therefore gl or pooky was scum

ok, so y'all concocted a scheme last night to pull one over on old VP and it was actually a fake cop claim. This makes me scum how? And don't say bussing because that makes no sense.

This is a maddening day where people are faking results left and right to get me dead. I don't understand the town motivation in this.

[VP Baltar]

i don't think that makes you scum

I hope you understand how infuriating this game is from town!VP perspective when like four players are just actively trolling me.

[VP Baltar]

Homie if you're thinking I'm trolling you idk what to tell you. If you want me to troll you I can though

I've stopped reading your posts now. No worries.

[VP Baltar]

I love how VP Baltar thinks this entire game is a giant conspiracy to "get him"

so fucking w i l d

MULTIPLE TOWNIES FAKING ASS INFO. YOU LITERALLY CONSPIRED IN THE BOMB PT LAST NIGHT TO GET ME.

me rn:

[VP Baltar]

How do you know they're town 0_0

and you say you're not trolling me

[VP Baltar]

Titus, you really just going to drop that fake cop gambit to make dwlee look good (allegedly) and then straight dip out of the thread with no other comments?

[VP Baltar]

What happened.

[VP Baltar]

YOU LITERALLY CONSPIRED IN THE BOMB PT LAST NIGHT TO GET ME.

no we didn't.

you came up with a secret breadcrumb code to talk to each other, yes?

[VP Baltar]

yeah but that had nothing to do with you. the point was so titus could tell us her action & result

What do you think about her using it to try to sway the lim onto me? Do you think that's a townie play?

[VP Baltar]

I'm gonna claim now because i want to sign off this website for the night after posting here way too much today, and it seems like I'm the lim anyway.

I'm a compulsive vengeful defuser. Anytime I am nominated as defuser, if I get blown up, the mod will send me a list of names of anyone who gave me incorrect information. I then must choose to kill one of them.

I am pretty sure mistyx is scum who picked up on this, or the main outlines of it, when I threatened her life in the bomb PT if she didn't give me correct information. I also think it is why I have not just been sent back as defuser again. Scum know I have an ability that can take them out.

pedit- everyone in the game completely trolling me is not fun. please stop it.

[VP Baltar]

good thing we're killing him in the main thread instead of the bomb PT huh

Dude, fuck off honestly.

[VP Baltar]

Did you seriously fucking hint what your role was to someone you thought was scum when you could have let them try to blow you up instead or something

Like bro if you're town why would you not just trade for scum there ahhhh

Got town another defusal didn't I?

Nothing is stopping us from. Limming mistyx scum right now

[VP Baltar]

Oh this is song and dance is still happening for another day, alright.

[VP Baltar]

if VPB flips scum here...

like GL is never defusing another bomb.[no1 in their right mind would let him defuse another bomb]

I am never defusing a bomb.

If the scum really r doing 4 defusal win condition it would have to be someone extremely townread as the third partner

But we're so close to winning TEEHEEEEEE
ok now that I'm getting to this post in context

if VP flips scum, I personally know it would be safe to defuse another bomb, but I think people without knowledge of my alignment would be smart to play it safe by just not defusing no matter who it is, I think that's just kinda correct from a neutral view. so I would expect probably scum are just gonna throw townies in there and let the experts blow them up and we probably just have to deal with that, it's the cost of letting VP get two defuses

[VP Baltar]

if VPB flips scum here...

like GL is never defusing another bomb.[no1 in their right mind would let him defuse another bomb]

I am never defusing a bomb.

If the scum really r doing 4 defusal win condition it would have to be someone extremely townread as the third partner

ok now that I'm getting to this post in context

if VP flips scum, I personally know it would be safe to defuse another bomb, but I think people without knowledge of my alignment would be smart to play it safe by just not defusing no matter who it is, I think that's just kinda correct from a neutral view. so I would expect probably scum are just gonna throw townies in there and let the experts blow them up and we probably just have to deal with that, it's the cost of letting VP get two defuses

But we're so close to winning TEEHEEEEEE

[VP Baltar]

Why is VP so hard to lim yet we happily just had 2 speed lims? oh right… he’s maf

This is infallible logic

[VP Baltar]

Their in thread/PT behavior was consistent with their claim though.

Why do we think that would be?

[VP Baltar]

I think this is because you either prepared your fake claim way in advance or you’re just what you say you are.
I just don’t know what to say baltar, your reasoning and justifications are difficult to swallow. But i still want to vote dwlee. Just based off of emotions.

I mean, it would have to be a mod provided fake claim. I am not good enough of a scum player to think days in advance about a fakeclaim, and then play to it, all the while not under real pressure.

As far as my play being suboptimal, or whatever the argument is, sorry? I don't agree but also I never said I'm perfect at this game. We can debate in post whether I made the right play or not. I just didn't think people would be screeching this hard to not elim mistyx later. Got to be scum influence there.

[VP Baltar]

Are you serious.
Baltar the reason nobody wants to go after mistx right now is because you or dwlee is scum.

Well dwlee already outted their whole ass today, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that people now are like "well maybe mistyx is just VI!" Which is fucking insane to read as I'm about to be mislimmed

[VP Baltar]

how you're playing that role makes 0 sense from a town perspective, so like I never see myself not voting VP here

Not really. My play allowed another town defusal and the way I bluffed mistyx made it even more likely she is scum. If she was town wanting to kill me that night for real, she would have just followed through. We know it is unlikely she has a PR now given the rest of the game, so why was she worried about survival? Scumbutt.

So I not only put a scum in an awkward place where they needed to show intentions, but I got town a defusal. Sorry I don't play basic as you would there.

[VP Baltar]

how you're playing that role makes 0 sense from a town perspective, so like I never see myself not voting VP here

Not really. My play allowed another town defusal and the way I bluffed mistyx made it even more likely she is scum. If she was town wanting to kill me that night for real, she would have just followed through. We know it is unlikely she has a PR now given the rest of the game, so why was she worried about survival? Scumbutt.

So I not only put a scum in an awkward place where they needed to show intentions, but I got town a defusal. Sorry I don't play basic as you would there.

so you made it even more likely mistyx is scum.... but you wait till you're basically E-1 to share this info or even push on mistyx

I tried to start a mistyx wagon today because I am fairly certain I'm right there.

Plus keeping it secret meant I still had a chance scum sent me back to defuser slot to slander me more and I could blow a second up, flip and then yall could piece together the mistyx bluff.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar's case on me is still awful

I haven't even tried to actually case you. Just pointed out your opportunism and feigned ignorance today to get me dead. There are parts of your iso that are not good, but I gave them charitable assessments overnight. I can certainly be less charitable.

[VP Baltar]

Andante's really gonna come out and say I'm 99% town only to vote me and scream for my head the rest of the day and wonder what went wrong isn't she

This never happened. See what I mean by willful misrep

[VP Baltar]

Baltar's case on me is still awful

I haven't even tried to actually case you. Just pointed out your opportunism and feigned ignorance today to get me dead. There are parts of your iso that are not good, but I gave them charitable assessments overnight. I can certainly be less charitable.

And I've shown how there is no feigned ignorance you're just talking past me

K

[VP Baltar]

He has been sitting at E-2 for forever

Still some sensible people alive. Guess you should have gone for defuses so you had more kills available scum!

[VP Baltar]

fireisredsir [10]: Bell,

Malakittens,

catboi,

Dwlee99, Titus,

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Frogsterking, Menalque [HAMMER]

[VP Baltar]

Frogsterking [9]: Greeting, VP Baltar, Cephrir, StrangeMatter, Mistyx, Andante, Enchant, PookyTheMagicalBear, Andresvmb [HAMMER]
Dwlee99 [1]: Frogsterking

not voting [7]: GuiltyLion,

Dwlee99

, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque,

Titus, Malakittens,

Bell

[VP Baltar]

The bus revelation was a smart play, ngl.

Malakittens [9]:

Dwlee99

, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Andante, Andresvmb, VP Baltar, Enchant [HAMMER]

[VP Baltar]

LOL, Titus just never voting this game to dodge her favorite: VC analysis. This is all so coordinated with these two.

execution:

StrangeMatter [7]: GuiltyLion, VP Baltar, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever,

Dwlee99,

Bell [HAMMER]
Dwlee99 [2]: StrangeMatter, Andante
Mistyx [1]: Cephrir
VP Baltar [1]: Mistyx

not voting [2]:

Titus,

Enchant

[VP Baltar]

like, if you refuse to vote, WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? YOU'RE CLEARLY NOT MAKING READS....

ask Titus.

[VP Baltar]

fireisredsir [10]: Bell,

Malakittens,

catboi,

Dwlee99, Titus,

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Frogsterking, Menalque [HAMMER]

Frogsterking [9]: Greeting, VP Baltar, Cephrir, StrangeMatter, Mistyx, Andante, Enchant, PookyTheMagicalBear, Andresvmb [HAMMER]
Dwlee99 [1]: Frogsterking

not voting [7]: GuiltyLion,

Dwlee99

, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque,

Titus, Malakittens,

Bell

The bus revelation was a smart play, ngl.

Malakittens [9]:

Dwlee99

, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Andante, Andresvmb, VP Baltar, Enchant [HAMMER]

LOL, Titus just never voting this game to dodge her favorite: VC analysis. This is all so coordinated with these two.

execution:

StrangeMatter [7]: GuiltyLion, VP Baltar, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever,

Dwlee99,

Bell [HAMMER]
Dwlee99 [2]: StrangeMatter, Andante
Mistyx [1]: Cephrir
VP Baltar [1]: Mistyx

not voting [2]:

Titus,

Enchant

[VP Baltar]

Like, you seriously have to believe I came up with a DETAILED fakeclaim and played to it two days ahead of my lim to believe I'm scum. Show me a mafia game ever where I put that much planning and big brain play into being scum. I've come up with good shit on the fly when I'm about to get limmed, sure. But never have I ever come up with Titus level big brain plays. I have too little free time to car that much about mafia.

It is wild to think that is fakeable by me.

[VP Baltar]

Could be a real scum role

hahaha what

[VP Baltar]

I have too little free time to car that much about mafia.

you're also top 3 in postcount this game

I post frequently, doesn't mean I'm playing strategy here. Posting is fun, overthinking is not!

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee posted a much more thoughtful long ass case at the very start of this day

you mean the one that was 90% about Mena, and the VP points were like 1) VP wished andres a happy birthday 2) VP was positioned to blow up bomb because he looks more townie than dwlee.

Boy oh boy, amazing case that is not complete nonsense at all.

Look at how dwlee has played the actual votes and tell me they don't look informed.

[VP Baltar]

then again, maf!dwlee is like 0 effort

That was throwing me too lately. But they took advantage of me questioning myself.

[VP Baltar]

I need to do some work for like an hour. be back in a bit.

[VP Baltar]

Like my partners are Titus and Mistyx and so I'm planning to leave them to end game? That's what makes sense to you?

You're out here saying Mistyx is VI. And I'm pretty sure you haven't said much about Titus at all.

She is more than capable of running a scum team, and might be the actual brains behind this WHOLE FIASCO

[VP Baltar]

Titus is smart and capable but this game I've built up a lot more towncred than she has. Doesn't make sense to have me bus then suicide when I'd be the one capable of endgaming

You don't have control of who gets nominated as experts, so this whole argument is bunk. Ya shot ya shot. Live with the consequences

[VP Baltar]

Enchant, one true knight of valor

[VP Baltar]

Titus is smart and capable but this game I've built up a lot more towncred than she has. Doesn't make sense to have me bus then suicide when I'd be the one capable of endgaming

You don't have control of who gets nominated as experts, so this whole argument is bunk. Ya shot ya shot. Live with the consequences

Why don't you both verify no accident?

What?

[VP Baltar]

I frankly cannot believe you would do me like this, Baltar

I have no idea what you're talking about

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VPB

boop

May as well scum claim

[VP Baltar]

Be sure to lim Mena tomorrow yall

[VP Baltar]

gg all! Nice job to town overall making it impossible to move as scum.

Thanks to datisi for modding a very complex and fun game. All is well that ends well.

[VP Baltar]

Thanks to VPB for being the best scum teammate I could've asked for - it was so much fun shooting the shit with you.

Ditto! It was fun and you made a lot of really smart plays!

[VP Baltar]

I shouldn't have gotten greedy and tried to extend my life in the game by keeping dwlee alive and bussing mistyx. I think I could have just gotten dwlee limmed and their death would just be my death sentence the next day, but I think we were feeling a little trapped as scum in how we were actually going to end game, so I just made a high risk bet.

Pooky did a great job keeping it together and trying to fight through a pretty hopeless situation. Thought he might actually pull it out there for a hot minute.

Despite some of the early game drama, I thought this was a very fun game and would play with any of you again!

P.S.: Dwlee basically figuring out the whole scum plan had me rolling. Galaxy brain.

[VP Baltar]

Oh, forgot to ask, what was the reason for the avi change pooky?

[VP Baltar]

I lost a bet to Firebringer

Oh haha. I thought you were engaging in psychological warfare.