Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[MathBlade]

Glad you had fun Ydrasse!

Hope you have all the fun in the world

I gotta go!

[MathBlade]

I am Pi, I am round I don’t take sides

I follow the evidence that I think is right and inevitably reach the conclusion that I said words.

[MathBlade]

This.

People should really take a stance on MMR/PPF if they aren’t willing to elim so I know where people want to shoot at bare minimum

But we should be elimming one of them.

[MathBlade]

wat is ppf role

“Something confirmable tomorrow pretty please don’t elim me” is the official title I think

(This is a joke. They haven’t claimed but they’ve said this)

[MathBlade]

I’m rolefishing now but that sounds like not a good response to loyal neowhwyeber

Yeah neither is MMR not voting for PPF

It’s why I wanna elim one and vig the other.

[MathBlade]

Funny thing that.

I gotta work now but I will hammer like NM

[MathBlade]

^^ What RR said

I don’t want to influence town to elim one way or the other. I think we learn a lot, but I think while a Mastina elim would also be good MMR/PPF would be better.

If MMR/PPF = S&S same alignment gambit failed and lmao including for completeness don’t believe that
If MMR/PPF = S&S diff alignments probable then we learn likely but not absolutely who is aligned where
If MMR/PPF = T/S or S/T people can be read by stances
If MMR/PPF = T/T then wtf is this day?

[MathBlade]

I promise to think about it overnight. I won’t promise one way or the other.

If you’re scum you can’t plan that way
And if you’re town scum won’t know what I do.

Best I can do.

[MathBlade]

Actually…I just thought of something.

If we assume every premise from MMR is true then scum factional might be roleblocking based on role type/name.

Scum do have non traditional factionals according to the OP.

Or maybe a lightning rod to an ascetic scum?

No one else claim but did anyone else have powers messed up?

[MathBlade]

If you didn’t have powers messed up then don’t care not asking about you.

[MathBlade]

I’m rolefishing now but that sounds like not a good response to loyal neowhwyeber

Yeah neither is MMR not voting for PPF

It’s why I wanna elim one and vig the other.

What happens if one of us flips Town?
I think that you should save your vig shot on mastina if you eliminate us today.
Because, once we flip, it should be obvious that mastina's role has a high chance of being scum's equivalent of our role.
-Rubella

Idk if Mastina’s capable of faking tone like this. She has also lock tr me once as scum but she posted like a robot in that game. Couldn’t there be another role that could possibly explain this?

Lightning rod to ascetic scum would work?

But then I’d expect multiple people to be complaining their powers didn’t work.

If someone had their powers work then that fails.

[MathBlade]

Oh wait nope. By definition ascetic lightning rod wouldn’t be able to be targeted.

Mass redirection bypassing ascetic somehow

Or scum alien on PPF?

[MathBlade]

I’d buy alien on PPF. Doesn’t feel like it from the play though.

[MathBlade]

Was there a plan for MMR to target PPF yesterday? If that was put out into the universe, could some scum-fuckery have caused result issues, especially if PPF is as widely town read as suggested. Some one break down the chain of events. Otherwise, I'm just assuming what I have been.

Don’t think so.

I am thinking Mastina wanted me dead.
Didn’t think I would claim something confirmable.

PPF is either ascetic or unlucky town.

I lean the first.

Lunar team kills professor

Which means that professor’s other team reads good.

[MathBlade]

So
Mastina/Bunny/PPF

And

Dingle/Radja/FA

Makes sense

A team with 2/3rds (or more) DDS/unwd/Fire would kill prof

Prof said he was confirmable with the janitor kill.

I think mainly it’s a matter of if MMR is swapped or unlucky town.

I think the scum teams are going after each other and it’s all for cred.

[MathBlade]

So
Mastina/Bunny/PPF

And

Dingle/Radja/FA

Makes sense

A team with 2/3rds (or more) DDS/unwd/Fire would kill prof

Prof said he was confirmable with the janitor kill.

I think mainly it’s a matter of if MMR is swapped or unlucky town.

I think the scum teams are going after each other and it’s all for cred.

Crickets are loud damn.

[MathBlade]

Sp how would you do the day, Math, if you had complete control? Vig target, Elim, etc.

Vig target is tomorrow

I’d have the day fall naturally to test my theory.

One side “wins” and gets their elim.

If I have to pick, I would do it later.

[MathBlade]

theres things i want to respond to about mastina.
but then i realized thats just going to create more noise.
is it worth engaging.

the answer my shock you:
no

Then why not engage in MMR/PPF even if your vote won’t change?

[MathBlade]

what specifically should i engage with

Where do you stand on MMR/PPF debate?

What would you do in my shoes?

[MathBlade]

what specifically should i engage with

Where do you stand on MMR/PPF debate?

What would you do in my shoes?

i don't care about MMR.
PPF could be scum but im not interested in pursuing. It will self sort either dead in a few days or poe to scum
if i were you, i wouldn't crumb vigi. Then i would have shot mastina
Finally prove all these people like yume who think they can read her wrong

Assume Mastina flips scum then who?
Assume Mastina flips town then who?
(Obviously if we don’t flip Mastina you’d say her)

[MathBlade]

Assume Mastina flips scum then who?
Assume Mastina flips town then who?
(Obviously if we don’t flip Mastina you’d say her)

i actually don't have a follow up shot.
probably holster till i get another strong scumread
maybe search the consensus null reads of people shoot in there

Noted

[MathBlade]

Current mastina wagon definitely contains teammates of MMR and/or PPF. If we hit scum today, that's where I'd recommend a dayvig go, were it up to me.

Too many pronouns? Can you please elaborate?

Of MMR/PPF what are your reads on each?

[MathBlade]

Current mastina wagon definitely contains teammates of MMR and/or PPF. If we hit scum today, that's where I'd recommend a dayvig go, were it up to me.

What makes you think scum won't bus?
Last time, I saw scum bus, Town ended up losing.
Surely, scum might do that again?
-Rubella

Can you please explain why you aren’t voting for PPF?

[MathBlade]

What motivation does scum Loyal claim a failed action?

Well scum wouldn't actually be Loyal, but ultimately, it's very simple:

MMR is claiming a Loyal investigation on PPF which failed.
This is a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.

If it is taken to be a claim of a guilty, though, then that means there is basically a guaranteed scum in MMR and PPF.

Past Present Future is never scum here, ever. EVER ever.

Ergo, if there is a scum in the two, it is MMR.

The "why they did it" doesn't need to be something we know--they did it.

MMR claimed a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.
This happened, period.

There are many possible motivations behind it.

I have my

guesses

.
MMR felt boxed in;
MMR thought they could get away with it due to it being a soft-guilty and not eat a death afterwards from "oh well, guess we were roleblocked";
MMR genuinely believes PPF is scum for some reason but is wrong, and believes that an elimination on PPF will have no consequences since fakeclaiming a guilty on opposite scum still gets an opposite scum dead;
MMR knows PPF to be town, but has a role-related reason for wanting to eliminate PPF this day phase (notably, say the same thing which gave scum incentive to push MathBlade/Dingle Dangle Scarecrow yesterday).

But none of those I can really know.

What I do know is that Past Present Future cannot be scum, and therefore, MMR cannot have a real guilty on them.

And analyzing the claim and target and handling of it gives overwhelming reasons for MMR to be scum, with literally the

only

reason for MMR to be town being "scum wouldn't do this"--that's literally it.

Unless you wanna tell me something about MMR that isn't "scum wouldn't do this", that's the legit only reason they have to be town.
Their role itself looks like a scumclaim;
Their handling of it looks like a scumclaim;
Their target selection looks like a scumclaim;
Everything they are doing, looks like scum.

At some point, "scum wouldn't do this" becomes overwhelmed by the mountain of evidence demonstrating that, well. They did.

There is completely so much I disagree with here.

Can’t post at work.

People waiting on me do shit.

[MathBlade]

If you don’t give a damn neither do I is kinda where I am at here.

VOTE: PPF

I think we have to flip one of you. If you flip scum then it tells a lot and if you flip town it tells a lot.

For someone who is “confirmable” you’re just not acting like it.

[MathBlade]

I tried giving you way more than the 24 hours to be cooperative and to work with people and you’re just not.

So I think we go PPF today. I expect Mastina to be unhappy with this but considering she’s one of the few if not only person to defend PPF then I am okay with elim.

[MathBlade]

So you townread me, I have been begging for the bare minimum town!you is capable of, holding off on voting you, trying to cheerlead you and I am unreasonable?

Can you like not?

I have been trying really hard to be cooperative here.

[MathBlade]

Not to me

PPF has been a proponent of the mastina apologists

All I see is red

Come vote PPF with me then please?

[MathBlade]

I tried giving you way more than the 24 hours to be cooperative and to work with people and you’re just not.

So I think we go PPF today. I expect Mastina to be unhappy with this but considering she’s one of the few if not only person to defend PPF then I am okay with elim.

I told you to talk to your sister, why haven’t you?

I don’t talk with her about mafia outside the thread.

That breaks site rules.

I did talk with her about not mafia things as we are family and anything there is NAI.

This makes me uncomfortable and is close to if not crossing a line please stop.

[MathBlade]

Bah PPF is tactically the better vote because of their interactions with everyone, especially Mastina.

But MMR has gone beyond simply botching a role claim. While I can believe town can botch a claim, MMR in general trying is to pretend it didn't happen. If I had a role result that implicated another player as scum I would not stop to follow through on it. I feel like everyone else on the playerlist would do so too. It feels like MMR is just hoping we stop talking about their claim. It goes beyond botching a claim. They've had so many days to clarify their claim, lay everything out clearly, and try to lead an elimination based on it and they haven't.

So I think MMR is the correct vote today.

I agree they have not done any of those things.

However mechanically I think PPF is correct and I do think that it is SvS

IF MMR is scum then MMR is more likely lunar scum or wants to be elimmed. That this is a deliberate ploy. One that a scum team of them + buddies has to agree on,

Mastina doing a ploy outing crumbs makes way more sense for a scum agreed upon plan than claiming rolestopper then neopolitan.

I don’t think we elim the “cop” in a 1v1

Based on PPF’s flip I can figure out who to vig.

[MathBlade]

PPF on the other hand is more likely Solar along with Mastina if my theory holds.

[MathBlade]

Math, I don't think you'll actually listen to what I say. Been bit too many times.

I haven't read 90% of the posts here lately as it's mech drowned out again.

It's just little fun to play in a game where I have no sutonomy.

VOTE: MMR

While I'd love to love out Math, there isn't evidence to policy lim him.

~Titus

You realize I was quite for like 3 days deliberately not taking a side until Nancy head said y’all won’t cooperate right?

[MathBlade]

Continuing this here is toxic and unproductive

I have been remiss to express any opinions at all.

I haven’t been leading deliberating and a wagon formed on Mastina.

I think you need to step away and check biases whatever your alignment.

[MathBlade]

The Claim:

Don't expect anything groundbreaking. I've repeatedly reiterated that my claim won't save me. It's important information to have, but it isn't something that makes me any more town and from a surface level can even look more scum.

I'm a Town Limited Astrologer.

During Noons (so, effectively, in normal games, even-night), I check for the attunement of my target.

The attunements in the game are Sun and Moon.

All Solar Cult Members have a Sun attunement;
All Lunar Cult Members have a Moon attunement.

But attunements aren't just for scum.

Some town are sun attuned, some town are moon attuned, and this is not randomly done. (It's a pregame thing apparently.)

Given that, I genuinely don't know the strength of my role. When I confirmed I said "so something between gunsmith and rolecop in strength, I guess", which is about my estimation. It's hard to say, I don't think anyone can really know until we see the whole setup.


My role PM specifies I'm limited in who I can target. (This is the wording I'd expect RR to have.)

I can't target the same player twice (not 'twice in a row', twice at all--once is it). (This part is obviously specific to me.)

But, some things can prevent me from targeting a player. (This is the wording I'd expect RR to have.)

I'll be informed in the event of that. (This is passable as specific to me, given I am an investigative.)


Radical Rat's claim lacking the "limited in who you can target" and "some things can prevent you from targeting" sections, is why I think their claim is suspect.

I'm afraid that's it. I warned you it wasn't groundbreaking, but I've gotten all my thoughts out and shared my info and why I think it implicates RR so I'm done now.

She did.

So then MMR is scum trying to take out two people who they believe are not aligned with them or they’re town.

I kinda want Mastina and MMR to sort themselves out.

There’s no reason they can’t check each other or be forced to check the same target,

[MathBlade]

In contrast PPR is demonstrated an unwillingness to cooperate and the other two slots have cooperated even if it’s poorly.

[MathBlade]

I think all three quite frankly have a chance of being scum here and it’s just picking.

Both of you should be prepared to share your result regardless of PPF flip and assume you will get a limited post or two before I fire between you depending on PPF flip.

[MathBlade]

Ideally a person both Mastina and MMR TR so then they’re both incentivized for the townfirm but not me. Someone who has longevity.

[MathBlade]

Ideally a person both Mastina and MMR TR so then they’re both incentivized for the townfirm but not me. Someone who has longevity.

Got that.
And seeing that mastina also claimed Astrologer (I missed that.), I guess that she could be Town because it wouldn't make sense for scum to receive a fakeclaim which is also a TPR.
I'll talk with my hydra partmers before we decide on a vote.
-Rubella

I think Mastina is genuine true claiming here regardless of alignment.

When scum Mastina pushed me only a limited set of roles would make me back off.

So I don’t doubt her claim.

Just like ironically enough with how bad you’ve played this I don’t doubt your claim.

What I doubt are your alignments.

[MathBlade]

So I think forcing you and Mastina to spew gives people information to work off of especially if I die.

[MathBlade]

How I think the setup works is each scum team has an astrologer or invest PR to find scum.

MMR scum probably got some sort of invest that makes them think PPF is scum.
Mastina would be the scum invest here

PPR is probably some important scum role.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know for certain but this is what I feel matches everyone’s play.

[MathBlade]

Ideally a person both Mastina and MMR TR so then they’re both incentivized for the townfirm but not me. Someone who has longevity.

Got that.
And seeing that mastina also claimed Astrologer (I missed that.), I guess that she could be Town because it wouldn't make sense for scum to receive a fakeclaim which is also a TPR.
I'll talk with my hydra partmers before we decide on a vote.
-Rubella

Didn't you say you were informed scum had a near identical role? Why would your conclusion be mastina's Town because she isn't fakeclaiming instead of her being scum because she's you? Also Loyal isn't in your name, but Limited IS in mastina's. That discrepancy seems important to me.

It really does just look more and more like you don't believe your own claim...

It's because Loyal is embedded in the role.
And yes, I said that scum had a near identical role, but that doesn't mean that only mastina can be it.
I just doubt scum claims a CCable flavour.
-Rubella

Who are your TRs? Outside of Mastina and PPF and me?

[MathBlade]

We aren’t elimming Mastina today it looks like?

What’s your point?

[MathBlade]

Btw based on Mastina’s read wall I think she TR’s Enchant

So let’s get an alignment on a quieter poster.

Do you still TR Enchant Mastina?

[MathBlade]

In contrast PPR is demonstrated an unwillingness to cooperate and the other two slots have cooperated even if it’s poorly.

Cooperated is a strong word for MMR...

Fair, actively said they won’t cooperate?

[MathBlade]

V/LA until Monday

I have a trip. Please have someone elimmed by the time I get back.

[MathBlade]

And actually, I think that we should target each other if we both survive today.
-Rubella

Nope

Both should target same person. Don’t care who besides me.

Then both should get same results. Claim in first post,

[MathBlade]

Whoever is here while I am on VLA can figure out the ideal target

Ideally we elim PPR

[MathBlade]

Astrologer likely exists or a role like it.

[MathBlade]

Also, to those who scumread mastina, show me one game in the past five years where she spammed in the exact manner she does in this game, okay?

Already did.

You ignored it. Don’t have time to grab it again.

Probably gonna move my vote to MMR today since that’s where everyone is going but I think we’re eliminating the wrong scum.

[MathBlade]

Astrologer likely exists or a role like it.

at some point im going to have to sit down and actually figure out these games mechanics. But it won't be this game day. Hopefully i don't have to think about this till post game.

My flip will make it clear that one of these roles is likely to exist.

They just don’t have to exist on town.

You’ll see my dilemma when I flip. It will explain a lot.

[MathBlade]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

[MathBlade]

Intent to vote MMR which will likely result in hammer as people said they are sheeping me will move

Get last thoughts in soon. Probably 30 minutes ish til I vote

This hardly qualifies as intent to hammer. Standard protocol is generally 24 hours.
~Mumps

I am on VLA. Won’t be online then.

I also won’t be the actual hammerer.

I am just doing the courtesy of being informative as best I can.

[MathBlade]

Also, to those who scumread mastina, show me one game in the past five years where she spammed in the exact manner she does in this game, okay?

Already did.

You ignored it. Don’t have time to grab it again.

Probably gonna move my vote to MMR today since that’s where everyone is going but I think we’re eliminating the wrong scum.

And you ignored all the reasons we gave why she is town.

ur the one claiming to keep an open mind.
either have it or don't, but stop pretending u have an open mind

I don’t think spending 3 hours on a questionnaire is ignoring.

I just disagree.

[MathBlade]

Mainly Mastina v unwd+FB (maybe?) really seems SvS.

Pedit: Today we are not elimming Mastina so there’s no point

[MathBlade]

VOTE: MMR

I gotta go.

I think that’s E-2

[MathBlade]

Then in that case @DDS we get guilties on Mastina (admittedly soft) and PPF so like???

[MathBlade]

I am here with some thoughts.

Firstly, furtive said a few pages back that elimming mastina both sorts out a ton of 'conflicting' claim info (like, we did this dance with mastina and math last phase) And tones down the thread. I hate that I agree.

Someone else (scarf? I tr scarf ) said that a lot of the pressure to MMR and against a pff vote is coming because certain people are the loudest of the thread. Hard agree too.

I don't tr the PPF slot, I basically never have. I find mastinas explanation of the four reasons MMR could be fake claiming to be incredibly weak.

We have a sneaking suspicion that rh9 has been abandoned by his hdyea mates with a claim that he didn't understand, and they've popped up now because they can't work out why they are about to be miselimed over a guilty!

I don't find mastinas wording about her claim massively convincing anyway. I do think the game is pr heavy with much traffic.

B

The way I figure is there’s two options:
MMR is town. Informed an Astrologer exists and is likely scum. Implies Mastina scum. Likely guilty on PPF. Majority of players want MMR elim.

MMR is scum. They done goofed.

Neither option is likely given both require absurdities yet one has to be.

[MathBlade]

Then in that case @DDS we get guilties on Mastina (admittedly soft) and PPF so like???

I'm not really sure what this post is trying to express to me

Try rephrasing?

If MMR is town then
They are informed an astrologer is likely evil. Mastina is claimed astrologer, soft guilty.
They claimed no result on PPF. Because of loyal modifier this is another implied guilty.

Ergo two likely scum if MMR is town.

[MathBlade]

MMR is town. Informed an Astrologer exists and is likely scum.

MMR has backpedaled on this part of their claim.

No they haven’t? I don’t think?

[MathBlade]

They need to die. There’s too much back and forth of what is and isn’t their claim.

[MathBlade]

VC 2.0.6



Past Present Future (5) Scarfmanship, Mathblade, MMR, Toogeloo, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-3]

MMR (4) Radical Rat, Yume, Past Present Future, Mathblade

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Unwnd (1) Mastina

Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Enchant, T-bone ,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

Not sure why my vote is on PPF.

It was on MMR when I left

VOTE: MMR

I don’t have time to read anything that happened

Can anyone tldr me?

[MathBlade]

Not sure why my vote is on PPF.

It was on MMR when I left

I think that Meg doubled counted.

I don’t have time to read anything that happened

Can anyone tldr me?

In 4102, mastina asked you to ISO Firebringer and if you SR him, vote him.
Then, unwnd upset her and things got heated.

T-Bone made a great point on how roles aren't AI in 4164.
T-Bone continues to be a beacon of light in 4165.
-Rubella

Not isoing anyone on VLA but unwd+FB is one of my possibilities atm.

Not gonna naked vote a wagon at this point. We need to vote in Mastina / you / PPR.

An elim on anyone else leaves the game in way too toxic a state imho

[MathBlade]

(Joke)

I claim one shot ashamedness checker.

I got scarf was not ashamed.

That is all

[MathBlade]

Compounding on that
There’s no evidence of a rolestopper/blocker of any kind so by that logic MMR/PPF contains a scum.
Ergo if everyone should be voting in Mastina/MMR
And everyone should be voting in MMR/PPF

Everyone should be voting MMR no?

[MathBlade]

Compounding on that
There’s no evidence of a rolestopper/blocker of any kind so by that logic MMR/PPF contains a scum.
Ergo if everyone should be voting in Mastina/MMR
And everyone should be voting in MMR/PPF

Everyone should be voting MMR no?

no

What is the flaw in the logic?

[MathBlade]

Compounding on that
There’s no evidence of a rolestopper/blocker of any kind so by that logic MMR/PPF contains a scum.
Ergo if everyone should be voting in Mastina/MMR
And everyone should be voting in MMR/PPF

Everyone should be voting MMR no?

no

What is the flaw in the logic?

I know one (

very

unlikely both) of them is evil, but keeping them both alive is preferable for time being for info.

I thought that originally too when it was just Mastina.

But leaving them both alive means I have to decide it alone tomorrow.

This is a fate I don’t want.

[MathBlade]

Compounding on that
There’s no evidence of a rolestopper/blocker of any kind so by that logic MMR/PPF contains a scum.
Ergo if everyone should be voting in Mastina/MMR
And everyone should be voting in MMR/PPF

Everyone should be voting MMR no?

no

What is the flaw in the logic?

I know one (

very

unlikely both) of them is evil, but keeping them both alive is preferable for time being for info.

I thought that originally too when it was just Mastina.

But leaving them both alive means I have to decide it alone tomorrow.

This is a fate I don’t want.

Wait i think safe option is voting PPF.


I wouldn't touch claims yet.

Elimming PPF was acceptable earlier.

We really need to elim MMR.

Only reason I don’t turbo push is Mastina replacement and Yume replacement needs to happen

[MathBlade]

Elimming PPF was acceptable earlier.

We really need to elim MMR.

May you enlighten me?
I don't get your logic.
-Rubella

Mainly I think you’re scum.

There’s worlds (I don’t agree with) that PPF can be town and Nancy is trying to cooperate

I think you’re all three scum and PPF elim is you don’t elim cops before guilties

So either is good.

[MathBlade]

Much as I also hate the replacements I think that it’s protown to wait for Mastina and Yume replacements.

Both said they’d be doing particular things.

They should be able to do those before we go to night.

[MathBlade]

I have stated before that I will swap to MMR just to avoid a stalemate. But I don't think this is a stalemate so much that it is just waiting for replacements, one of which is probably an important piece to the day.

This. We need the replacements.

[MathBlade]

Elimming PPF was acceptable earlier.

We really need to elim MMR.

May you enlighten me?
I don't get your logic.
-Rubella

Mainly I think you’re scum.

There’s worlds (I don’t agree with) that PPF can be town and Nancy is trying to cooperate

I think you’re all three scum and PPF elim is you don’t elim cops before guilties

So either is good.

I see.
But if we're all scum, do you think that we are on different scumteams?
-Rubella

Correct.
Specifically
Mastina + PPF are on one team, I think Solar
I think you’re lunar with unwd and FB + 1

[MathBlade]

It’s way too early for exact solves to be reliable but it’s enough to see if Mastina and PPF can townfirm themselves.

With that claim stretch I don’t think you can.

[MathBlade]

Why is unwnd scum with us?
-Rubella

He didn’t want to vote in the situation with you and PPR and instead was fighting with Mastina too much.

With how much unwd was fighting implies certainty.

Unwd in prior experience doesn’t get *THAT* certain without information.

So my guess is that you’re a scum astrologer who hit Mastina and got Solar

PPF is someone you want to elim

Mastina scum claimed by saying the mechanic is up again

But sometimes it would have to be on scum otherwise the mechanic is just revealing town and town.

[MathBlade]

By the way, Math, what makes you think that we're unaligned with DDS?
-Rubella

DDS could be the +1 on your side

I suspect you recruited somewhere last night or just have some secret mechanic.

[MathBlade]

It’s not perfect. It’s a lot of guesswork and way more than I am comfortable with but if Mastina also has a reason for elimming unwd their back and forth makes sense.

It’s a theory that fits and I think elimming you solves a lot

[MathBlade]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Mastina saw me (or put it together) I was crumbing. She needed me to claim in order to see what risk she was going to have letting me live. So I did as much as possible

The role she claimed does gif well with mine as does your claim but I was willing to let her go to get information for the dayvig Mastina couldn’t lie about. However you’re scummy and no way to verify claim and just play is ewww

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

[MathBlade]

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

Solar I suspect has furtive as it’s traitor and doesn’t actually recruit

But Lunar lore having things like werewolves probably recruits

[MathBlade]

As the sun begins to set, a ray of sunlight catches onto Mathblade and surrounds him. Likewise, as the moon rises the moonlight surrounds Dingle Dangle Scarecrow. They are surrounded by radiant and ethereal light.

Mathblade is blessed by the solar god Helius. He cannot be aligned with the Lunar Cult. If he was eliminated during this phase, the Solar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Solar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is blessed by the lunar goddess Luna. They cannot be aligned with the Solar Cult. If they were eliminated during this phase, the Lunar Cult would have been vanilaised. The Lunar Cult was the only group with access to this information.

Mastina saw me (or put it together) I was crumbing. She needed me to claim in order to see what risk she was going to have letting me live. So I did as much as possible

The role she claimed does gif well with mine as does your claim but I was willing to let her go to get information for the dayvig Mastina couldn’t lie about. However you’re scummy and no way to verify claim and just play is ewww

---

Thus begins Night 1! Send me anything you might do!

The deadline for the night is 1 day.

This timer will likewise freeze at 24 hours remaining until I receive a replacement for Maid Cafe.

Wow that post got broken three ways from Sunday. That’s odd.

Part cut off should be “So I did as much as possible to be protown were I could to deal with Mastina’s BS”

[MathBlade]

So my guess is that you’re a scum astrologer who hit Mastina and got Solar

What makes you think that we targeted mastina over PPF?
Otherwise, why would scum!us even bother claiming a fake result on a fake target?
-Rubella

Mainly because Mastina was the vocal center point. A scum team would need to sort her and fast.

My guess is that you need to elim PPF and some benefit would happen.

Eg maybe each slot would be vanillized but powers become factional maybe.

There’s too many maybes here.

[MathBlade]

[
So my guess is that you’re a scum astrologer who hit Mastina and got Solar

Wrong, everyone in the game already knew mastina was solar attuned when she claimed she made her checks during the noon phase. It would be a wasted check for scum.

I could see them checking Mastina if they get some sort of town/scum alignment thing.

I can see this argument too.

Mainly I would like to elim MMR to reduce the possible worlds.

[MathBlade]

Requesting updated BC

@mod

[MathBlade]

VC-*

[MathBlade]

And if MMR is town then new Mastina and PPF become likely scum.
I think it was really scummy to hammer without waiting for replacements

[MathBlade]

Yeah it was real Scummy to wait 1-2 IRL days hoping for a replacement on the slot I'd prefer to kill

Lmao

Except you’ve done everything to try to avoid an MMR elim?

[MathBlade]

I'm of the opinion that it's more protown for the day to end than to wait even considering the PRs
I understand the other perspective though

No one cared when I posted this or wanted to post more thoughts but suddenly it's an outrage when someone actually hammers lol

I had already expressed that opinion so? *shrug*

[MathBlade]

Assuming MathBlade trueclaimed (and even if they are Solar Cult), we supposedly have 2 chances to smoke today, and focusing on Lunar Cult we should cut [Meuh, CSF, MathBlade, Unwnd] out of the poe.

FoS Furtive.

Never said if my shot ended the day or not.

PPF needs to post. They claimed confirmable yesterday so barring confirmation I think they’re solar cult and Mastina was wrong or the slot is scum with PPF.

I don’t think that we can go without resolving the PPF slot.

Also need Yume’s replacement PPF to post.

[MathBlade]

I have role-related knowledge that someone either tried to kill Meuh

or

used a negative utility action on her during the “Noon” phase

Gut says that Meuh received wrong results and unwd is aligned with MMR.

If I am wrong don’t correct me it’s not worth a vig given the gamestate.

If no protectives ever claim unwd is probably lunar.

[MathBlade]

Fun! unwnd is attuned with the sun. Therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.
I vaguely recall people saying unwnd was weird with the wagon on the person who just flipped lunar? I saw that on the last page. I picked unwd cause of that + Mastina having unwnd low on reads.

We probably should eliminate one cult fully, that being Lunar, because I'm guessing they each have their own kill (maybe alternating Night/Noon). So probably not vote unwnd today then.

This is a bad idea for *reasons*

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:

Okay, I'll buy that. Response was fast enough for there not to have been deliberation, and it also explains why you were on mastina/Meuh in the first place.

Which also means Meuh is 99% likely to be Town, and I owe mastina an apology...

Not sure what this does for the rest of my reads yet.

I don’t get this.

If CSF/Yume knows Mastina/Meuh wasn’t targeted N1 and N2
Wouldn’t they submit two actions?

Please elaborate

[MathBlade]

I am still feeling like Yume/Mastina/PPF could be a group who converted unwd.

But yeah PPF needs to be confirmable or reads

MMR’s play looked way too much like a guilty they expected sheeped and messed up.

[MathBlade]

(expired on 2022-11-23 01:13:22) started at 48 hours

This is prod range for anyone PPF has that long to post final reads, be confirmed, or convince me not to shoot them, but three is pretty unlikely without the confirmed.

[MathBlade]

Also need Yume’s replacement PPF to post

I'm yume

Whoops then just PPF words confusing and I was trying to post before going to bed.

Figured Nancy would post up a storm

Titus I get because we had RL but really need PPF to explain why they should live.

[MathBlade]

@Math,

Lunar cult faked a guilty on us. At a minimum, we're confirmed not Lunar cult.

The only reason Lunar cult would fake a guilty on us is if we were an extreme threat.

Therefore, VOTE: Scarfmanship.

As of when we last spoke, Nancy had Scarf as lockscum and Scarf is now damn near to me.

~Titus

Correct.

I think MMR had an actual guilty on you.

You claimed PR and scum MMR got vanilla.

None of what you just said looks to be a more reasonable hypothesis.

[MathBlade]

Did you look at MMR’s flip?

They get vanilla on scum

If they checked you and got vanilla it explains their play.

[MathBlade]

I am also not convinced on the Mastina/Yume/RR trio

Something is fishy as fuck there.

Not confident enough to vig on it yet but I have role related reasons that level of conf doesn’t exist

[MathBlade]

If your answer is go to hell fine I can just kill you but I am trying to be cooperative here and seek feedback first hence the timer.

[MathBlade]

I am also not convinced on the Mastina/Yume/RR trio

Why are we a trio?

RR claimed to be able to prevent burns (likely scum nightkill on even nights)
Yume slot says that some kill attempted to kill Mastina slot
Mastina slot says a result on unwd

If I am scum that kills on even nights why do I not kill the doctor that prevents burns?
Why do I go for the invest who would likely be protected?

[MathBlade]

The I is purely hypothetical imagine scum shoes.

It all adds up in terms of mechanically possible but I don’t see why a scum team does that

[MathBlade]

Does anyone have a good reason PPF shouldn’t be vigged?

[MathBlade]

The I is purely hypothetical imagine scum shoes.

It all adds up in terms of mechanically possible but I don’t see why a scum team does that

I don't want to claim because we can get slips (non Lunar or Lunar based on knowing our role).

Purely hypothetical scum shoes, why would scum gamble on a result that might just be a vanilla?

Either a) Nancy was 10000% right on scarf, b) they felt super threatened by our role or c) both.

~Titus

Because at that point in MMR’s shoes it’s not a gamble
In thread you claimed PR
But they check you get vanilla

That would be a lie so you’d be conf Solar scum to MMR

[MathBlade]

The I is purely hypothetical imagine scum shoes.

It all adds up in terms of mechanically possible but I don’t see why a scum team does that

I don't want to claim because we can get slips (non Lunar or Lunar based on knowing our role).

Purely hypothetical scum shoes, why would scum gamble on a result that might just be a vanilla?

Either a) Nancy was 10000% right on scarf, b) they felt super threatened by our role or c) both.

~Titus

Because at that point in MMR’s shoes it’s not a gamble
In thread you claimed PR
But they check you get vanilla

That would be a lie so you’d be conf Solar scum to MMR

We didn't claim anything prior to MMR's result.

~Titus

I thought you had. I will double check in the morning.

[MathBlade]

Also, you're supposing MMR was being honest on a botched fakeclaim.

~Titus

Yes. That is an assumption. I find it the most likely considering no other mod announcement regarding wanting to elim a certain person.

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed but one last question

You said you’d be confirmable today, are you?

[MathBlade]

Where do you get MMR targeted prof from that?

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed but one last question

You said you’d be confirmable today, are you?

Nancy feels we are and that mastina confirms us. I'm not as certain but we'll be claiming if that's not the case bc it's you and me.
.~Titus

?? My scumread has nothing to do with you?

The reads are purely mechanics and relation based?

I am trying to figure out how Nancy is so far off and where she gets MMR targeted Prof from?

There’s way too much weirdness here

[MathBlade]

Scum clearly lied about their role, claimed a fake guilty on us to rolefish us and for some batshit fuvking stupid reason, we are being sussed? I think Titus is right, she. keeps saying in discord that you must hate her because why else you would you so obviously want to gamethrow? Unfuckingreal!

I do not hate her.

There’s no reason scum can’t have other factional abilities.

I think the kills are split but actions don’t have to be

And if we have a circle jerk of this many role interactions then something doesn’t add up.

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed but one last question

You said you’d be confirmable today, are you?

Nancy feels we are and that mastina confirms us. I'm not as certain but we'll be claiming if that's not the case bc it's you and me.
.~Titus

?? My scumread has nothing to do with you?

The reads are purely mechanics and relation based?

I am trying to figure out how Nancy is so far off and where she gets MMR targeted Prof from?

There’s way too much weirdness here

That’s what the flip said, Lunar killed Prof and MMR learned their role. How is that not beyond fucking obvious?

Reread it please

It says any factional ability.

[MathBlade]

Scum clearly lied about their role, claimed a fake guilty on us to rolefish us and for some batshit fuvking stupid reason, we are being sussed? I think Titus is right, she. keeps saying in discord that you must hate her because why else you would you so obviously want to gamethrow? Unfuckingreal!

I do not hate her.

There’s no reason scum can’t have other factional abilities.

I think the kills are split but actions don’t have to be

And if we have a circle jerk of this many role interactions then something doesn’t add up.

Then force scum to kill us. We're conf not Lunar.

Shoot fucking lock scum.

~Titus

So?

Mechanically you look Solar.

Hence me asking others for their opinion.

It’s actually more ideal to hit solar than lunar.

[MathBlade]

I don’t see any lock scum here or it would be easy

You just look really tunnelled and non explainy which is when you’re usually wrong

[MathBlade]

There’s no reason scum can’t have other factional abilities.

Possible yes, but other factional abilities are not guaranteed to even exist unlike the factional kill. We don't know what's in the [redacted] part of the role PM

Solar Cult and Lunar Cult - These are the two scum factions. They have nonstandard factional abilities and are not neccisarily identical. Although they are flavored as cults, conversion abilities are neither confirmed nor denied to exist.

From the OP.

Reasonable assumption other factionals exist

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed but one last question

You said you’d be confirmable today, are you?

Nancy feels we are and that mastina confirms us. I'm not as certain but we'll be claiming if that's not the case bc it's you and me.
.~Titus

?? My scumread has nothing to do with you?

The reads are purely mechanics and relation based?

I am trying to figure out how Nancy is so far off and where she gets MMR targeted Prof from?

There’s way too much weirdness here

That’s what the flip said, Lunar killed Prof and MMR learned their role. How is that not beyond fucking obvious?

Reread it please

It says any factional ability.

whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target.

Lunar killed Prof - factional nk, MMR passively learned they were not vanilla.

That’s N1 and one ability. So the MMR knows prof’s role sure.

They could have a factional checker that randomly sends a message to the staging server (shameless plug to help them test please) and then sends three memes to the scum team based on the username of the player selected then gives a role

We don’t know.

Assuming scum have only a factional kill is like what?

[MathBlade]

There’s no reason scum can’t have other factional abilities.

Possible yes, but other factional abilities are not guaranteed to even exist unlike the factional kill. We don't know what's in the [redacted] part of the role PM

Solar Cult and Lunar Cult - These are the two scum factions. They have nonstandard factional abilities and are not neccisarily identical. Although they are flavored as cults, conversion abilities are neither confirmed nor denied to exist.

From the OP.

Reasonable assumption other factionals exist

I kind of doubt alignment changes exist based on MegA's post in the Large Theme Game thread though

Spoiler:

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No) -
Yes, but kept to a minimum. No moderator lies are present.

Bastard elements are "kept to a minimum"... alignment changes are more than "minimum" imo

I accept the premise that it's more likely for there to be weird things in this game than normal, but still, they are less likely to exist than a factional nk

Yes I think a factional kill exists

However scum have to have other factionals.

Otherwise (redacted) doesn’t make sense

It’s the fact scum have factional powers make me think MMR checked PPF

Otherwise I don’t see why they blatantly unsliced

You can argue PPF is a town PR or scum PR

But I doubt MMR didn’t check PPF based on play

Then because if PPF flips scum MMR buys longevity it’s more likely MMR genuinely scumread PPF

[MathBlade]

Blatantly unalived *

Autocorrect*

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed but one last question

You said you’d be confirmable today, are you?

Nancy feels we are and that mastina confirms us. I'm not as certain but we'll be claiming if that's not the case bc it's you and me.
.~Titus

?? My scumread has nothing to do with you?

The reads are purely mechanics and relation based?

I am trying to figure out how Nancy is so far off and where she gets MMR targeted Prof from?

There’s way too much weirdness here

That’s what the flip said, Lunar killed Prof and MMR learned their role. How is that not beyond fucking obvious?

Reread it please

It says any factional ability.

whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target.

Lunar killed Prof - factional nk, MMR passively learned they were not vanilla.

That’s N1 and one ability. So the MMR knows prof’s role sure.

They could have a factional checker that randomly sends a message to the staging server (shameless plug to help them test please) and then sends three memes to the scum team based on the username of the player selected then gives a role

We don’t know.

Assuming scum have only a factional kill is like what?

I have never seen any other ability in any game ever that was considered to be factional.

Heroes had some
Shadowrun had some

There’s plenty of examples in theme games

[MathBlade]

It’s more I can’t answer the question
Why does MMR unalive in a town!PPR world?

Assume you’re elimmed, then we come for MMR.

It buys them a day at most.

Roden is a strategic player. I don’t see them doing that.

[MathBlade]

Let’s go in a MMR didn’t have info on your slot.

Why unalive? Why fake claim?

Every time I plug you in as town I get more unreasonable things.

[MathBlade]

I’m going to bed but none of this makes sense.

[MathBlade]

Then because if PPF flips scum MMR buys longevity it’s more likely MMR genuinely scumread PPF

I think you raise a plausible point. I just need to think about them more tomorrow, because my brain is kind of fried right now

I also think it's easier to read Nancy through her posting in real time, so I'm also lowkey hoping I don't have to work through the messy mech of the MMR claim tbh

Mainly Nancy by tone is frustrated => either way alignment. She did great ate in heroes. Titus and her are Ate champs so I just get numb at yelling and insults when I feel I have valid questions.

But mechanically I don’t see what scum were doing.

I don’t see how (assuming all claims are true) are town claims considering (redacted) from the moderator which I am assuming can’t be false here because that’s beyond minimum bastard ness and no I can’t say what redacted is.

Mastina/Yume/RR/PPF => assume all town why no RR dead

Assume PPF town => why MMR unalive

I think these need to be answered

There’s no way a 4 way circle jerk exists and scum don’t kill the doctor and (redacted) just doesn’t happen

[MathBlade]

@CSF I’m basing it not just on them being on our wagon but them pushing me to vote out an obvtown pr d1. And MMR also clearly preferred Mastina over us as well.

Did you claim pr d1?

They said no earlier but I plan on double checking in the morning/after work.

[MathBlade]

Fun! unwnd is attuned with the sun. Therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.
I vaguely recall people saying unwnd was weird with the wagon on the person who just flipped lunar? I saw that on the last page. I picked unwd cause of that + Mastina having unwnd low on reads.

We probably should eliminate one cult fully, that being Lunar, because I'm guessing they each have their own kill (maybe alternating Night/Noon). So probably not vote unwnd today then.

This is a bad idea for *reasons*

I explained my idea, explain yours

No thanks.

And yes vig shots can and have ended days before.

[MathBlade]

Yeah none of that play makes sense in a town PPF world.

It’s really confusing.

Hence me asking anyone else if they had a good reason.

Because I feel like I have half the puzzle here

[MathBlade]

Then why didn’t MMR ever push us then? Roden only voted us to save their scum asses. If they had actually checked us and gotten a guilty, then why did they wait until they were at risk of getting limmed?

If they weren’t bssing and had a gulity on us - impossible both due to role flip and our alignment - then why did they hesitate as long as they did to vote us?

Because they were fucking lying. They never checked us but saw how Math was pushing Titus and thought they’d take a chance to see if they could get us run up or not. But when they saw it was between us or them - ONLY THEN did they vote us - despite us not having actually claimed anything, despite Titus claiming not arsetic.

They have Ircher in their hydra who should have known their botched claim was garbage, which is why RH never voted us. Only Roden did to save themselves. How is this not obvious?

Because Roden is same level as Ircher on mech

Your theory assumes Roden newb scum which is false

[MathBlade]

PPF should claim full role

No

I want to sort them

That’s the point.

A full claim isn’t needed yet

I want to understand

Not just shoot no matter how much it makes Titus sad or makes me think “I hate her”

That hurt

[MathBlade]

If possible could I get some sort of list of claims/important info thus far in the game? I’m lost and I’d like to know some basics at least

Me -> Outed dayvig will be firing today was forced to claim by Mastina Dusk 1.
Yume/CSF slot -> Some kind of invest role that checked you twice (or forced check twice) after offering to check me. Seems sus mechanically but good day play.
Mastina/Meuh slot -> D1 claimed astrologer said they can check on Noons.
RR -> Said they can stop burns. Why aren’t they dead?

[MathBlade]

Then please keep that in the discord. The same idea (Math always tunnels me) can be expressed without that.

I disagree and CSF finds a valid point here in what I am saying.

[MathBlade]

PPF should claim full role

No

I want to sort them

That’s the point.

A full claim isn’t needed yet

I want to understand

Not just shoot no matter how much it makes Titus sad or makes me think “I hate her”

That hurt

I could literally say "I hope town wins" and you'd find a way to disagree with me.

If possible could I get some sort of list of claims/important info thus far in the game? I’m lost and I’d like to know some basics at least

Me -> Outed dayvig will be firing today was forced to claim by Mastina Dusk 1.
Yume/CSF slot -> Some kind of invest role that checked you twice (or forced check twice) after offering to check me. Seems sus mechanically but good day play.
Mastina/Meuh slot -> D1 claimed astrologer said they can check on Noons.
RR -> Said they can stop burns. Why aren’t they dead?

THEN SHOOT RR. How does this lead to shooting PPF?

That list is a direct question. Meuh asked

Those are the outstanding claims besides MMR’s flip.

I dont just randomly shoot.

There’s reasonings why.

If RR is scum then either A) Scum tried to shoot Meuh and still failed
Or B) Scum didn’t try to shoot Meuh and Meuh’s results are bad
Or C) Scum didn’t try to shoot Meuh and no bad results on Meuh and CSF is scum

It’s a slow process to figure out what happened.

My gut says that unwd and MMR are partners and scum fucked with Meuh’s check rather than a doc protect which would make RR scum but that doesn’t explain MMR play with PPF but everything else fits

[MathBlade]

If possible could I get some sort of list of claims/important info thus far in the game? I’m lost and I’d like to know some basics at least

I claimed Night Role Watcher + something else unclaimed

Math claimed Day 2 dayvig

Rat claimed Noon doctor

I think there were some VT claims too but I forget who exactly those are

---

YesterDay, MMR claimed Loyal Neapolitan with "no result" on Past Present Future - effectively claiming a guilty on PPF except MMR didn't actually push PPF for most of the Day

MMR then flipped Lunar passive rolecop with the condition that they always get Vanilla results on Solar mafia

Now MathBlade's theory (as I understand it) is that MMR actually got a Vanilla rolecop result on PPF. And since PPF were maybe softing a PR claim on Day 1 (this still needs to be verified) ---> this led MMR to think PPF is Solar scum with a PR (since their rolecop result on Town!PPF wouldn't have been Vanilla)

So I guess open questions are:

(1) Why did PPF claim a no result on PPF when they weren't under duress,
(2) did PPF claim or obviously suggest they were PR on day 1, and
(3) why didn't MMR push PPF (this i fear we may never know until the end of the game)

Dusk 2 or Day 2 dayvig*

Ftfy

[MathBlade]

Mainly the same open questions PPF has are what I have and 4

Why is RR not dead if town?

[MathBlade]

Mainly the same open questions CSF has are what I have and 4

Why is RR not dead if town?

Omg phone you did it again. You played with my keys and typoed again

[MathBlade]

(expired on 2022-11-23 01:13:22) started at 48 hours

This is prod range for anyone PPF has that long to post final reads, be confirmed, or convince me not to shoot them, but three is pretty unlikely without the confirmed.

Don't shoot them because they're far from the most likely scum at the moment. There are several much much better choices for a shot than PPF.

If you want an interesting mech reason for not shooting them (and hear this out please because it's actually the primary thing compelling my current choice of preferred votes)

Town in multiball should as a top priority be removing players who could plausibly be members of either scumteam.

This is because the scumteams also have the ability to remove scum from the game. The more we limit the scum's options for nightkills (and similar mechanics), the more likely they are to crossfire.

Taking out PPF does the Lunar scumteam a favor, since they're almost certainly not Lunar scum and we wouldn't be making any progress towards solving for them. Instead, you could shoot someone who could feasibly be on either scumteam and make progress towards solving both teams at once.

Okay who is better and why?

[MathBlade]

And it’s really better if I hit Solar if I can, btw.

[MathBlade]

I would shoot T-Bone

Why?

[MathBlade]

I got a message overnight that someone tried to burn me and failed. Sucks to suck Solar scum.

That makes no sense

Doesn’t explain the lack of kill on Meuh.

@RR who did you protect last night?

[MathBlade]

I’d like a list of everyone you claim you saved from burning please RR.

[MathBlade]

4353

I’m explicitly asking for a reason Meuh.

Because then if RR says that’s the only one that means your result is fake or CSF is scum or yet another protective exists or for some reason scum try to kill TBone over your slot.

I want to leave no room for “oh I forgot to say Meuh”

[MathBlade]

Fake/modified*

[MathBlade]

I feel like the timeline where scum use a negative utility action on me that isn't a kill also lines up pretty well with the timeline where I don't get attacked right?
Cause if scum can mess with my role or my results in some way, it's much less tempting for them to go for a kill

Possible but I have reason to believe your role can’t be messed with like that.

It’s hard to explain.

I said earlier our roles are interlinked in a weird way so I find it hard to believe scum could affect your role.

My brain logic making the pieces fit says unwd is actually lunar which matches

But that goes against suggested idea in my role PM that your information could be altered

[MathBlade]

Could not be altered*

[MathBlade]

So this is the dilemma I have => If unwd is lunar not solar then everyone’s claims are in theory possible but really goes against the idea presented in my role PM

If unwd is Solar what is the negative utility done at noon? Not burning unless TBone+RR. Not role alignment fuckery as Solar was correct alignment. So then why does CSF get that?

Either option is wtf land.

[MathBlade]

My role being "limited" kind of makes me lean towards the idea that scum can mess with it tbh, but if you have reason to believe it's not I'm down to believe that!

Pedit: I got a result that unwnd is "attuned with the sun", which explicitly means they cannot be aligned with lunar cult.

Gah I wish the mod would make me infinite shot BP IC so I could explain

[MathBlade]

My question would be: why does CSF fake that I was targeted by something negative/a kill if it's not true? I don't see how saying that actually serves the scum team in any meaningful way.

It serves to “validate” CSF’s role without actually having to do anything and leaves misinformation.

[MathBlade]

Unwd what are your thoughts?

[MathBlade]

I'm a bit surprised that both... 1) T-Bone was chosen to be "burned," and 2)RR just so happen to pick T-Bone to protect.

I thought Math would be the obvious night target, personally.

This too.

There’s a lot that doesn’t make sense here.

I would love Titus or Nancy to break down what they think of the claims so far.

[MathBlade]

Can you elaborate why you are surprised by either of those choices?

Why would scum “burn” you over a cop or day vig?
Why would RR protect you over a cop or a day vig?

[MathBlade]

And yes I use “cop” loosely as it’s gets attunement but still

[MathBlade]

I’d like a list of everyone you claim you saved from burning please RR.

Can you elaborate why you are surprised by either of those choices?

Why would scum “burn” you over a cop or day vig?
Why would RR protect you over a cop or a day vig?

T-Bone was my only target, as this has been the first time I could act.

I did not target mastina/Meuh because I thought she had a decent chance of being Solar, and I'd rather have healed a townread, plus being a common scumread is usually decent protection already if I was wrong about her.

I did not even consider targeting you because you claimed to have been immune to burns, so why would I need to?

I did not claim immune

I said I personally do not burn

[MathBlade]

Did a brief skim. Here's my two cents.

---Math claimed whichever of MMR and PPF wasn't eliminated yesterday would be shot today. Assumption being that they were both scum, just opposite teams.
---Mastina claims she can clear PPF during the night phase before being replaced out.
---CSF says mastina was messed with at night.

Does Lunar/Solar mess with mastina/Meuh at night in the hopes that Math just Vigs PPF? Or does Solar PPF just take their chances and mess with mastina/Meuh and hope Math doesn't kill them? Why not just attack Math and force town to eliminate them instead?

Because Math's wrong vig is guaranteed not to hit scum. With mastina/CSF not clearing us, they get a free vig, keep attention on mastina/CSF and protect Scarf.

~Titus

Can you please let me ask questions? I am literally debating shooting someone else.

[MathBlade]

I’d like a list of everyone you claim you saved from burning please RR.

Can you elaborate why you are surprised by either of those choices?

Why would scum “burn” you over a cop or day vig?
Why would RR protect you over a cop or a day vig?

T-Bone was my only target, as this has been the first time I could act.

I did not target mastina/Meuh because I thought she had a decent chance of being Solar, and I'd rather have healed a townread, plus being a common scumread is usually decent protection already if I was wrong about her.

I did not even consider targeting you because you claimed to have been immune to burns, so why would I need to?

I did not claim immune

I said I personally do not burn

I interpreted that as immunity, like you'd say asbestos doesn't burn.

….

My dayvigs don’t burn

Says nothing about the human behind the dayvigging

[MathBlade]

Did a brief skim. Here's my two cents.

---Math claimed whichever of MMR and PPF wasn't eliminated yesterday would be shot today. Assumption being that they were both scum, just opposite teams.
---Mastina claims she can clear PPF during the night phase before being replaced out.
---CSF says mastina was messed with at night.

Does Lunar/Solar mess with mastina/Meuh at night in the hopes that Math just Vigs PPF? Or does Solar PPF just take their chances and mess with mastina/Meuh and hope Math doesn't kill them? Why not just attack Math and force town to eliminate them instead?

Because Math's wrong vig is guaranteed not to hit scum. With mastina/CSF not clearing us, they get a free vig, keep attention on mastina/CSF and protect Scarf.

~Titus

Can you please let me ask questions? I am literally debating shooting someone else.

I thought you wanted my thoughts on claims.

I'll shut up I guess.

~Titus

I do.

That wasn’t input

That’s “wahhh I am in Math’s PoE for shooting” and not input

[MathBlade]

Did a brief skim. Here's my two cents.

---Math claimed whichever of MMR and PPF wasn't eliminated yesterday would be shot today. Assumption being that they were both scum, just opposite teams.
---Mastina claims she can clear PPF during the night phase before being replaced out.
---CSF says mastina was messed with at night.

Does Lunar/Solar mess with mastina/Meuh at night in the hopes that Math just Vigs PPF? Or does Solar PPF just take their chances and mess with mastina/Meuh and hope Math doesn't kill them? Why not just attack Math and force town to eliminate them instead?

Because Math's wrong vig is guaranteed not to hit scum. With mastina/CSF not clearing us, they get a free vig, keep attention on mastina/CSF and protect Scarf.

~Titus

Can you please let me ask questions? I am literally debating shooting someone else.

I thought you wanted my thoughts on claims.

I'll shut up I guess.

~Titus

I do.

That wasn’t input

That’s “wahhh I am in Math’s PoE for shooting” and not input

Ugh. This is why I feel you have it in for me. I view everything in a strategic lens. That's why my feedback as it is. Tbone's townreading us. He gets attacked. Makes sense. The only thing that doesn't is Meuh as that’s too much negative utility.

Meuh scarf and furtiveglance are where I'd look.

~Titus

Your feedback ignores a good chunk of the claims Eg RR TBone and CSF.

It doesn’t explain why you do and don’t want to look at those people related to mechanics

I am viewing things through a strategic lens as well but when most of your post is “but Math’s kill is wrong” when I haven’t typed it makes me think you aren’t being strategic and are Ateing

[MathBlade]

How is everyone saying me. I'm baffled

For me it’s imho possible traitor crumbs and overall play

[MathBlade]

How would you feel about an unwd shot Titus?

[MathBlade]

Am i a shot candidate

Honestly no. You said something yesterday that makes me think you’re town but antitown to highlight

[MathBlade]

Am i a shot candidate

Honestly no. You said something yesterday that makes me think you’re town but antitown to highlight

Wat did i say

See above answer where it’s antitown to say

[MathBlade]

I want to see what unwd thinks about the role claims too.

[MathBlade]

That and his sudden uturn to Mastina town is very suspicious.

[MathBlade]

Stealing a format from a player in MU

Info/Claims

Day 1:

Spoiler:

MathBlade

claims to be a

Day 2 or Dusk 2 Vig

. (#1015)

Radical Rat

claims that they can

remove burns on people

; Doesn't know what a burn actually is. (#2392)

Yume

claims to be a power role of some sort [Investigative]. (#1630)

Past Present Future

hints to be a power role (fruit vendor?) (#1505)

Mastina

claims she is a

town limited astrologer

. Says the attunements in this game are sun and moon. Claims that she can check the attunement of a target; also claims that some town can be sun attuned or lunar attuned. (#2841)

Night 1 Deaths

:

Professorotic

has disappeared without a trace. Role unknown. (#3005)

Day 2:

Yume

checked Mastina. Claims she can be scum. (#3012) Further explains that her role gets

clear/non-clear

. (#3015)

Scarfmanship

claims to have been

Mooned

last night. (#3035)

MMR

claims to have investigated

Past Present Future

last night. The result failed (e.g no result), presumably due to loyal modifier. (#3116) Further explains that they are a Loyal Rolestopper. (#3119) This turns out to be a gambit, in which they just wanted to see PPF's reaction. Claims they are actually a

Loyal Neapolitan

. (#3122)

PPF

claims they are not vanilla or Roleblocker in regards to MMR's results. (#3172) Claims MMR was likely blocked, and they are not ascetic. (#3176/#3177)

MMR

further clarifies his role and claims he is actually a

Town Astrologer

. (#3858)

Ydrasse

claims to be

Doublevoter

(?) (#3686)

Going from this…

To maybe I was wrong and shutting up is very suspicious.

[MathBlade]

Her posts are tangential and don't have any structure to them

I believe this is intentional but her defenders keep telling uhhh no that's her town meta

I don't want to believe this obstructive way of engaging with the thread is in any form town

Dude had a huge fight with Mastina screaming up and down she’s scum. I find it really abrupt the change now.

[MathBlade]

I recognized I was perhaps wrong and wanted to reframe my mindset

Maybe look at what I'm saying today instead of focusing on what I did before. I regret it.

What caused that shift?

[MathBlade]

I recognized I was perhaps wrong and wanted to reframe my mindset

Maybe look at what I'm saying today instead of focusing on what I did before. I regret it.

What caused that shift?

Idk man I think i was wrong?? I might be stupid but i ain't dumb

This is very uncharacteristic of you. I look forward to your mechanical thoughts on other slots.

[MathBlade]

Also, PPF lied about selling apples.

Really?
We tried to investigate them last Night and we received no result.
Measles think that this could be due to our Loyal modifier.
-Rubella

? Can you explain your post to us more?

Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.
-Rubella

Three heads can't make fakeclaim and i protect them for this.

Belissimo.

Trying to understand why they even did this.

Agreed. Lots of questions.

[MathBlade]

How is it... uncharacteristic? I'm pretty sure I've reevaluated before in multiple games

There’s usually a prompting reason you can point to though.

It feels well explained…not this.

[MathBlade]

I think it's pretty fucking Townie to admit my mistakes and then take initiative

You guys are upsetting mr. Squiggles

You’re not though

I asked you to provide your thoughts on the mechanical info you haven’t looked at yet and you said later today.

[MathBlade]

Then make yourself obvTown quickly

One theory I have is you got converted last night by Mastina/Meuh scum and CSF/Yume is providing cover and you got converted and Mastina was sucking up to Titus/Nancy hard

I’d like to see this theory disproven or proven today.

[MathBlade]

Could be that one of those three is the person being sucked up to could change but doubtful.

The theory is that because Mastina/Meuh is converting you she’d know you come back Solar and if it fails for whatever reason she’d say Lunar and she’s actually a limited shot recruit ability.

[MathBlade]

I'm not of the opinion that converts even exist in this game tbh...
But I could be wrong!
If they do I think they'd be heavily limited, I don't think this is a game where a bunch of people are gonna constantly get converted, despite the "cult" flavour, this doesn't really feel like a cult game.

I am torn on it.

There’s just certain things that imply it rather heavily.

If I was 100% sure I would be yolo shooting you right now but I am not.

However this idea should be disproven.

[MathBlade]

I think there actually isn’t a kill at all for solar and it’s a recruit instead and that unwd tried to convert TBone
Or you tried and successfully converted unwd

[MathBlade]

I'm not of the opinion that converts even exist in this game tbh...
But I could be wrong!
If they do I think they'd be heavily limited, I don't think this is a game where a bunch of people are gonna constantly get converted, despite the "cult" flavour, this doesn't really feel like a cult game.

I am torn on it.

There’s just certain things that imply it rather heavily.

If I was 100% sure I would be yolo shooting you right now but I am not.

However this idea should be disproven.

I do kind of think townies having attunements points to it, but the game would feel... busy I guess if it had converts on top of everything else. I'm overwhelmed enough as is.
But the fact that I have my role makes me feel less like attunements have something to do with conversion, cause wouldn't scum be the ones with the power to see people's attunements? (To pick who to convert)

Yeah. The main issue is if (redacted) happens I die.

(Redacted) implies cult game rather heavily.

Unwd’s changing stance matches cult recruit or cult leader trying to fit into obvTown.

[MathBlade]

I think there actually isn’t a kill at all for solar and it’s a recruit instead and that unwd tried to convert TBone
Or you tried and successfully converted unwd

I feel like one of the "night" phases, one scum team can factional kill, and the other can kill in the other. Would check out with mine and other's abilities having interactions with specific phases

Change that to Lunar kill and Solar recruit and I am there with you.

[MathBlade]

It matches with Mastina thinking recruit game
It matches with me being Lunar despite (redacted)

It matches with if (redacted) I die

So in town you world unwd (or his team) tried to recruit TBone. RR stopped it.

[MathBlade]

Being solar* fuck words can’t type

[MathBlade]

Autocorrect phone

Mathblade your theory is insane lmao

Then give me a better one.

[MathBlade]

Autocorrect phone

Mathblade your theory is insane lmao

Then give me a better one.

(expired on 2022-11-23 15:37:00) Same amount of patience as for PPF. This was started with 48 hours in mind.

Btw it also explains why me dying d1 vanillizes Solar

[MathBlade]

I'm town and I reevaluate cause I wanna be useful and help my faction win the game

Is my reason

And I am giving you that time against my better judgment. You asked for the time use it.

[MathBlade]

Why are people saying they are aligned with Solar and Lunar but are town? Is this a hidden mechanic because my role PM doesn't have anything like that.

It’s suggested from Mastina earlier that town gets assigned attunements too.

[MathBlade]

Autocorrect phone

Mathblade your theory is insane lmao

Then give me a better one.

(expired on 2022-11-23 15:37:00) Same amount of patience as for PPF. This was started with 48 hours in mind.

Btw it also explains why me dying d1 vanillizes Solar

None of that is a mech theory unwd or working towards one.

I despite ate with a passion as I am a cold unfeeling robot

Don’t tell me you’re town, pitch me an alternative interpretation of facts

[MathBlade]

The lack of reaction to unwnd being checked solar attuned is concerning to me, but not vigging PPF here would be extremely suspect play.

Good. Call me sus. Helps me live longer. Thanks.

[MathBlade]

Why are people saying they are aligned with Solar and Lunar but are town? Is this a hidden mechanic because my role PM doesn't have anything like that.

Fun! unwnd is attuned with the sun. Therefore not aligned with the lunar cult.
I vaguely recall people saying unwnd was weird with the wagon on the person who just flipped lunar? I saw that on the last page. I picked unwd cause of that + Mastina having unwnd low on reads.

Can you clarify what sun attuned means again?

All sun and moon cult members are attuned to their respective cult. All townies have an attunement (sun or moon) determined pregame in some sort of non-random fashion.
Functionally, a sun attunement means someone is confirmed to not be moon cult, and vice-versa.

(This is info packaged in with my role)

Makes sense why I am solar attuned.

Me being converted would suck.

[MathBlade]

Suspect play is not the same as suspect. Suspect play means bad play. Suboptimal play.

Regarding my last post, imagine if toogaloo had been checked solar. His reaction would have been like "WTF? I'm not solar *votes mwah*." With unwnd it's just.. nothing.

As explained earlier of Mastina’s claim/Meuh’s claim is correct town gets assigned them in a non random manner. So it would be a “meh”.

[MathBlade]

That’s not why unwd is sus.

Unwd is sus for changing read and asking to shoot likely convert.

[MathBlade]

Likely failed convert*

[MathBlade]

Then if unwd flips Solar CSF likely should be flipped with all due haste.

[MathBlade]

Then if unwd flips Solar CSF likely should be flipped with all due haste.

There are reasons why your me/mastina/unwnd theory doesn't make sense, but we can cross that bridge when we get to it

If Unwd flips Solar then my recruit theory vs kill is likely correct.

Then if you’re town some negative action to Meuh happened but it wasn’t altering the attunement check and wasn’t a kill then what?

I think the two of you can be paired. At the very least something sus is with that check if unwd flips Solar
If he flips lunar you’re fine

[MathBlade]

Ok, we do get something out of unwnd being the vig rather than the vote, and that is a lunar or solar flip inform us about the roles of others moreso than PPF.

PPF is still completely outed to me. Did you know I was the first one to come up with the suggestion that PPF could be a town PR that lunar is scared of? I did it way back early yesterday MMR first claimed. And now they're taking that story and running with it to a comical degree, since I think they forgot I was the one who originally suggested it and instead they're playing to what they think town wants to see from them. I can get receipts on this later if we end up vigging someone else.

Almost like I don't give a shit about my attunement as the only that matters is my green role PM

Some townies know their attunement, and they would have been able to disprove or confirm mwah's suggestion.

I suspected mine was lunar because I act on Dusk 2. But I am lunar to stop me converting because (redacted) would be too powerful for a recruit team

[MathBlade]

I am Solar omfg

[MathBlade]

K well i dont know my attunement and shooting me is a legitimate waste

Okay then show me a mechanical solve you have

Don’t tell

show

Ask questions that show you’re solving

[MathBlade]

Did it? That was pretty much a scramble situation with MMR botching a claim

Yes it did.

[MathBlade]

I am sure on you. I want to see more people take stances first.

People had taken stances on you. We get more by waiting and you doing as I ask.

[MathBlade]

Have not*

My autocorrect sucks

[MathBlade]

There's nobody townreading me you twit

Only person who has suggested that is DDS

I can still give time to be sure. Not everyone can be online all the time.

[MathBlade]

Not a bluff but won’t spam the thread either.

[MathBlade]

I get dogged on for trying to change things in a game stick in limbo

I'm sick of you acting like you own the joint

Your dogged on for your play and refusal to do as asked.

Pedit I haven’t been. I was forced to claim due to Mastina. I didn’t want to. Everything has been forced things.

[MathBlade]

I've said furtive and PPF in addition to you.

Though I don't think you're ALL partnered. If I had to guess I'd say furtive Lunar, you and PPF Solar.

What do you make of the solar recruit theory?

[MathBlade]

Scarf and T-Bone are Town.
I think that Math and DDS could be Traitors.
Final reads.
-Rubella

Look at these reads. Scarf voted the CW to flipped scum and T-Bone was offwagon.

Math and DDS were both on their wagon. MMR was clearly hoping for either a DDS or Math elim today.

Tr T-Bone despite him calling out MMR’s bs.

Nah I could be wrong on furtive and DDS is lunar traitor instead of furtive Solar traitor.

Good elim maybe on Dusk 3.

[MathBlade]

And eh.
I feel like DDS chaging votes could be an attempt to create a stalemate.
-Rubella

You seriously see this as distancing? I read it as an attempt to possibly shift to a DDS wagon because they know we’d flip town.

In the world where you’re town/not lunar I see it as MMR wanting their traitor buddy to not vote them and create the stalemate.

[MathBlade]

And eh.
I feel like DDS chaging votes could be an attempt to create a stalemate.
-Rubella

You seriously see this as distancing? I read it as an attempt to possibly shift to a DDS wagon because they know we’d flip town.

In the world where you’re town/not lunar I see it as MMR wanting their traitor buddy to not vote them and create the stalemate.

Why would they do that in the main thread then?

Traitor = can’t talk in scum PT.

Where else would they do it?

[MathBlade]

And eh.
I feel like DDS chaging votes could be an attempt to create a stalemate.
-Rubella

You seriously see this as distancing? I read it as an attempt to possibly shift to a DDS wagon because they know we’d flip town.

In the world where you’re town/not lunar I see it as MMR wanting their traitor buddy to not vote them and create the stalemate.

Why would they do that in the main thread then?

Traitor = can’t talk in scum PT.

Where else would they do it?

Why do you think there is/are (a) Traitor(s)?

Game feels like it. MMR suggested it. Kinda lower on the priority list though/not as sure

[MathBlade]

Kill Player: Unwd

Most players have checked in so here we go.

[MathBlade]

I don't know if I necessarily agree with traitors. Two scum factions both with the possibility of a traitor would mean either a stacked town power squad, or more numbers, but this game started with 17, right? We assuming 3 or 4 scum per faction, and a traitor would put town at near 50% from the get go.

Uh huh *smiles as he is so close*