Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Past Present Future]

idk i dunno what Ydrasse flips

Then how do you get the wk thing from? A wk means you think she’s probably town. I guess we’ll find out then. I hope she does flip scum but I don’t think so.

well i had ydrasse as null and also reluctant to vote here

I don't remember you putting serious effort in making counterwagon actually... Fairly i didn't put either...

I voted T-Bone because despite being early on MMR, he unvoted them and never revoted. I guess he gets points for not voting me but sounds like he might have known their claim was bogus. Prof was already voting him.

[Past Present Future]

I just find it strange that we both did nothing but you when it's like 4 hours decided to start acting when it's probably unevitable

I would have hammered rather than a no lim but I just hate voting my trs. Read Post Apocalypse and while I was obviously very wrong on Taly, I actually got into a huge fight with Titus because I told her I wouldn’t want to play if they flipped town.

And I still think that’s probably going to be the case. I think Ydra’s demotivated town.

[Past Present Future]

who you scumread expect for me

T-Bone for voting MMR early than jumping off and then never voting. Maybe Magician? I still think more than 3 scum on d1 Mastina wagon. Fire’s also possible.

[Past Present Future]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

[Past Present Future]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

Yeah another thing proving it’s bullshit pretty much. How would Ydrasse possibly not know anything about it if it had any basis in reality?

[Past Present Future]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

You’re definitely going to need to explain that one? VCA had a Prof wagon where he was at e-2 I think with MMR on it?

[Past Present Future]

VC 2.0.5



MMR (5) Radical Rat, T-bone , Mastina, Yume, Past Present Future [E-3]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Past Present Future (2) Scarfmanship, Mathblade,

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,


Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Toogeloo, Enchant,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

VC 2.0.6



Past Present Future (4) Scarfmanship, MMR, Toogeloo, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-4]
MMR (4) Radical Rat, Yume, Past Present Future, Mathblade [E-4]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Unwnd (1) Mastina

Not Voting (3) Ydrasse, Enchant, T-bone ,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

[Past Present Future]

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.

So reevaluating this

I still get the impression that RH9 made his claim with basically no input from anyone.
Considering Ydrasse was one partner, this makes some sense.

What I want to determine is whether this suggests anything about the second partner.

Yeah another thing proving it’s bullshit pretty much. How would Ydrasse possibly not know anything about it if it had any basis in reality?

Because Ydrasse was paying zero attention to this game.

Ydrasse being Lunar has given the claim

more

credibility, not less.

In what universe?

[Past Present Future]

There is 0 chance that she wouldn’t know anything about it, none. I know it’s bs anyway but that just adds to the multitude of reasons debunking it.

[Past Present Future]

I really did think Ydrasse was going to flip town. T-Bone why did you unvote MMR?

To give them more time to explain themselves. From my perspective one of two things could be true. a) they were claiming real results b) they fakeclaimed and fakeclaimed really badly to get rid of a non-threatening slot. I had a hard time believing the second (and still do to some extent).

Even though I unvoted I never let up on the pressure on that slot. I pressured MMR like crazy. I claimed intent to hammer when it was clear MMR couldn't explain themselves. My intent to hammer was so MMR could post final reads. They never did and someone else hammered while I was asleep.

Now, why have you avoided voting correctly on any day phase?

Why did you avoid the Porkens vote?

Why did you avoid Rat despite Rat being confirmed scum?

Why did you try to derail the correct lim yesterday onto a mislim on me with very little time left in the day phase?

Don’t bs me, you tried to mislim Mastina when I tried hard to save her.
Math wanted to wait too and I didn’t vote furtive.
Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

I must be scum since I didn’t anticipate Enchant would hammer obviously. Great detective work there, Sherlock.

Why don’t we bring up all of the VCS so you can stop with the bs shading?

I really did think Ydrasse would flip town buy I guess my not having a crystal ball somehow makes me scum?

[Past Present Future]

I don’t know why any of the flips which point against me being scum are now being used to push me? If you both are town, you’re ignoring blatant occam’s razor. I can’t respond to anything devoid of logic. Logic and evidence points against me but for reasons I can’t fathom a lunar flip of a slot who clearly knew nothing about a bs claim her buddy made somehow implicates me. I’m starting to have doubts on Dangle now because I don’t recall their reasoning being this bad as town before.

[Past Present Future]

Who hammered furtive? Oh yeah Enchant and Magician voted the unCC’d doc claim so get rekt.

wait when

T-Bone is trying to make a case that my voting is bad when if all the VCs were analyzed it would show that argument to be nonsense since probably everyone didn’t vote optimally and I did think Ydrasse would flip town and I explained my reasoning for that. I could understand this bs push if Meuh had said I was moon attuned but there’s no reason not to believe that’s not true. However it’s just beyond fathomable that Dangle could seriously think if MMR had a real claim she wouldn’t know anything about it. In what game ever has anything like that ever happened?

And the fact still remains that I tried hard to keep Mastina from getting limmed by being on Scarf cw when both Solar scum were clearly trying to run her up. Especially RR.

[Past Present Future]

PPF point actually valid: They can't be scum with Ydrasse.

I still think that was whiteknight thou.

I agree, I just thought if I left that out of my questions, that would be misleading framing on my part. You can see though that's the only point PPF chose to address, they didn't even address Porkens or Rat in their response to me.

I did. Math wanted to wait but I’m scum for not anticipating Enchant would hammer? And I. would have voted RR, so that even makes less sense. Did you forget I was on him on d1 when he was at e-1?

But don’t let the evidence interfere with your shitpush.

[Past Present Future]

If you’re seriously going to use VCAs against me than don’t be selective, bring up ALL of them including the ones that exonerate me but you won’t because God forbid, you look at any facts contradicting it right?

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.18

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

professotic (1) MMR,

Not Voting (1) Frozen Angel,

With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)

After some discussion with DkKoba, deadline will be frozen when the deadline is 1 day or lower and not 2 days. Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.

Oh lookie here, I was on RR at E-1 but it’s scum indicative that I wasn’t on him when it was obvious they were going down. I said I thought they were scum and was planning to vote them, so what even is your argument with that?

[Past Present Future]

Scarf is also town. So you tried to keep one town from being limmed by getting another town mislimmed.

That still doesn't answer why in the face of Rat being confirmed scum that you didn't engage or vote there. So, why? I think this is now the 3rd time I asked.

I thought Scarf was scum and hard tr Mastina.

I said I thought they probably were scum and said I planned to vote there. At the very least, don’t be lazy and don’t ignore that. Why does my not voting them even significant? You’re actually making it sound like I was opposing their wagon when I actively encouraged it. Do you not think I would have bussed them for towncred if I were buddies with RR? What you’re arguing here makes no sense. According to you my supposed buddy’s going down but I’m scum for saying I think he’s probably scum and planning to vote there but it going over before I had a chance to vote? Why? Why don’t I vote my doomed buddy for towncred then? You argument makes 0 sense.

[Past Present Future]

I don’t know why any of the flips which point against me being scum are now being used to push me? If you both are town, you’re ignoring blatant occam’s razor. I can’t respond to anything devoid of logic. Logic and evidence points against me but for reasons I can’t fathom a lunar flip of a slot who clearly knew nothing about a bs claim her buddy made somehow implicates me. I’m starting to have doubts on Dangle now because I don’t recall their reasoning being this bad as town before.

Meanwhile, the only reason you are potentially town to me is because I expect this kind of reasoning from you as either alignment

I'll say it once again: Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.

Right and his buddy Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about that because?

[Past Present Future]

Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.

And before you try to shut this down rhetorically

Recognise that, regardless of how YOU feel about this,

I actually believe this

Don't 'that's ridiculous' me, don't 'are you just scum for pushing this' me, ACTUALLY engage with this without doing any of that to try and discredit it and replace it with your own worldview. Use EVIDENCE to engage with thoughts on this point.

I have and you weren’t ignoring that evidence yesterday well it still exists and how you got Ydrasse flip somehow makes MMR bs claim more believable makes sense in what world?

[Past Present Future]

WHO is Rubella

Scum who lied.

[Past Present Future]

Rubella's behaviour is most clearly explained by him having a guilty result on you with the role that he did have.

And before you try to shut this down rhetorically

Recognise that, regardless of how YOU feel about this,

I actually believe this

Don't 'that's ridiculous' me, don't 'are you just scum for pushing this' me, ACTUALLY engage with this without doing any of that to try and discredit it and replace it with your own worldview. Use EVIDENCE to engage with thoughts on this point.

I have and you weren’t ignoring that evidence yesterday well it still exists and how you got Ydrasse flip somehow makes MMR bs claim more believable makes sense in what world?

Like I seriously want to understand how an MMR buddy who knew nothing whatsoever of their made up claim when they were trying to persuade Math to vig Mastina over us because it’s obviously real. Because that makes total sense right?

They wanted Mastina to die over us and Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about it, so how does that make their claim believable?

[Past Present Future]

You were willing to vote Rat on Day 1 when we didn't have confirmation they were scum, but unwilling later when we did have confirmation that they were scum. It is true, when momentum shifted towards Rat later in the day as a counterwagon to Mastina you jumped on. I will grab the relevant VCs because I think it still supports my theory. I'll start with the one you mentioned.

Spoiler: VC 1.0.18

VC 1.0.18



Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

professotic (1) MMR,

Not Voting (1) Frozen Angel,

With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)

After some discussion with DkKoba, deadline will be frozen when the deadline is 1 day or lower and not 2 days. Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.

It is true PPF was voting correctly here. I think there are mitigating circumstances that makes this VC less important than the day we actually limmed Rat. First, this is not the first Mastina counterwagon PPF was on. If PPF!scum, they have whiteknighted Mastina and have no choice but to vote her every counterwagon. Which she does. Second, PPF is not driving this wagon.

VOTE: RadicalRat

This is the vote PPF makes. Now I searched their ISO before and after this vote. You can look but at no point does PPF say they are suspicious of Rat, or trying to pushing Rat as scum. I used the search terms 'Radical Rat' and 'RR' to see, and the only time 'Radical Rat' shows up is in quotations. So I think its safe to say PPF was doing this to counterwagon their Mastina townread, rather than because they don't know Rat's alignment. On Day 1, with no one pressuring the other Solar slot, it's not unreasonable to think that PPF!scum would vote Rat to keep their reads consistent. Is Nancy the type of player to townread their scumbuddies? I don't know but I'd guess based on her flippant responses the answer to that is no.

Just to not take the VCs further out of context, I am going to quote them in chronological order starting from VC 1.0.13. I'm choosing to do so because that is the first time a counterwagon to Mastina appeared. I'm defining a counterwagon as 3 or more votes. My thesis is this to explain scum!PPF's day 1 behavior. They were so invested in the Mastina townread, that they had no choice but to vote every counterwagon to Mastina. This mostly applies to the Nancy head I think ftr.

Spoiler: VC 1.0.13

VC 1.0.13



Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, [E-2]

scarfmanship (4) Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Enchant (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
professotic (1) Mastina,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (1) Enchant


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

First Mastina counterwagon. We don't know Scarf's alignment but I suspect town.

Spoiler: VC 1.0.15

VC 1.0.15




professotic (7) Mastina, Bunnyonce, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Scarfmanship, Yume, MMR [E-2]

Mastina (4) Frozen Angel, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe,

scarfmanship (1)furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja,
Bunnyonce (1) professotic,


Not Voting (3) Enchant, Ydrasse, Mathblade,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

In 1.0.14 they stay on Scarf. Two VCs later they appear on another counterwagon.

Spoiler: VC 1.0.19

VC 1.0.19



Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Scarfmanship [E-2]

Radical Rat (4) Mastina, Yume, furtiveglance, Ydrasse

Scarfmanship (2) Past Present Future, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

professotic (1) MMR,

Not Voting (3) Frozen Angel, Enchant, Bunnyonce

With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-03 15:13:12)*

Deadline will freeze when it hits 24 hours remaining.

In 1.0.16 they unvote, until 1.0.18 when they are on Rat. Curiously in the immediate next VC 1.0.19 they are back on Scarf. This undermines PPF's point that they were willing to lim Rat. Why not keep Rat as the most viable counterwagon to Mastina?

Spoiler: VC 1.0.22

VC 1.0.22



Bunnyonce (7) Enchant, Mastina, Mathblade, scarfmanship, professotic, T-Bone, Past Present Future [E-2]

Mastina (2) Maid Cafe, unwnd

Scarfmanship (1) Yume
professotic (1) MMR,
Ydrasse (1) furtiveglance

Not Voting (5) Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Radical Rat, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,

With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 1 Day*

Deadline is frozen for replacements.

PPF stays on Scarf from 1.0.19 to 1.0.21, until we end the day compromising on Bunnyonce.

If you’re seriously going to use VCAs against me than don’t be selective, bring up ALL of them including the ones that exonerate me but you won’t because God forbid, you look at any facts contradicting it right?

I DID the work to make my assertion PPF. I looked at the facts of the Day 1 VCs to draw my conclusions. I did not cheery pick the VCs nor did I claim you did something you did not do, or claim you did not do something you did.

While I think it is reasonable for town!PPF to think I'm scum, to claim I didn't do the work to make my assertions about your voting history is not reasonable. If you're town then I've still done the work I've just come to the wrong conclusion. But you're discrediting me instead of helping me to understand why I've come to the wrong conclusion, sarcastically calling me sherlock and going 'but we all voted wrong'. When I asked why you didn't vote either Solar player correctly, including when one of them (Rat) was confirmed scum, you don't address the point.

If you're town, help me understand why you didn't answer the question in a direct and honest manner? What does town!PPF have to gain from that?

Exactly! So I put them at risk of getting limmed when it made no sense to do so if I’m a buddy but when I could have voted them for towncred I didn’t, so that makes me scum why again?

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.15




professotic (7) Mastina, Bunnyonce, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Scarfmanship, Yume, MMR [E-2]

Mastina (4) Frozen Angel, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe,

scarfmanship (1)furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja,
Bunnyonce (1) professotic,


Not Voting (3) Enchant, Ydrasse, Mathblade,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

VC 1.0.15




professotic (6) Mastina, Bunnyonce, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Scarfmanship, Yume [E-3]

Mastina (5) Frozen Angel, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe,

scarfmanship (1)furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja,
Bunnyonce (1) professotic,


Not Voting (3) Enchant, Ydrasse, Mathblade,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

@mod

The VC is wrong.
We're voting prof, not mastina.
-Rubella

Fixing

I guess it’s possible I could be making the same mistake with Prof as I did with Ydrasse but T-Bone ignoring all the evidence pointing against me being Solar is majorly pinging me. At least Dangle isn’t completely ignoring the evidence debunking it.

[Past Present Future]

Right, but that's only a part of my read holistically.

For point of reference Nancy, and this will help you either after I flip town or in future games we are town together. I ask you why you did something because I want to know, and to help me form my reads.

I don't ask you why you do something so I can make a gotcha post in response.

Sort of OOC:
Is it accurate that you're anticipating me going 'gotcha' and that's why you are quicker to deflect rather than answer directly? Think about this post game, I think it'll help us both understand one another in future games. I really do enjoy playing with you and hope that my relentless questioning doesn't give you a different impression.

I don’t have any issues with playing with you at all and thanks that’s really sweet. <3. I like you very much personlly fwiw.

I guess perhaps I did jump to that conclusion, so I’ll try to answer you more calmly then, Sorry but I just don’t understand why things like Ydra flip and my not being on doomed RR wagon are even being argued? First one points to MMR claim being bs and the second is nia. Had I been on doomed RR wagon but not on d1, I’d understand your argument a lot better.

[Past Present Future]

Right and his buddy Ydrasse knew absolutely nothing about that because?

Because, as evidenced by Ydrasse's entire ISO, Ydrasse was paying very little attention to this game.

Read Ydrasse's ISO and try to assess how much attention she was giving this game. Don't assume. Assess.

I'm waiting for a response to this.

When I’ve been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt and you’re argument is Ydrasse would somehow have missed it? I’m sorry but Ydra not knowing anything about it’s existence even if it does turn out to say exactly that they completely fabricated it, there should still be something about it in Lunar scum pt. So let’s say Ydrasse wasn’t paying attention to the game. She was to some extent because she did make reads but fypov, there would have to be something in the scum pt - either that a possible guilty existed or that it’s completely bogus but you’re going to seriously argue that Ydrasse knew nothing about any mention of either a true or fake claim even existing?

I think it’s beyond obvious from all of her posting that the MMR claim was as much of a surprise to her as anyone. How would Ydrasse not have seen word one about such a claim- real or fake - existing? You’d have to be seriously arguing that she never looked at the scum pt which I find extremely difficult to fathom. I know the claim is bogus but it’s clear Ydrasse hadn’t read anything about it even existing in Lunar scum pt.

[Past Present Future]

When I’ve been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt and you’re argument is Ydrasse would somehow have missed it?

You find it vital to clarify that 'When I've been scum, the mod posted all results in the scum pt' before using it to imply that this always happens. Because you

know

that's not something you can just blanket assume. If you thought that was so standard that it was a given in this game, you wouldn't have strengthened it as an argument before using it as an argument; you'd have just said something more like 'Your argument is Ydrasse would have somehow missed MMR's result in the scum PT?' But since you know individual scum role results being in a PT can't just be assumed, you're making the case for it before saying it's obvious.

I cannot, to my knowledge, remember a single time I've seen scum's individual role results be posted in a scum PT. I've just gone through all of Meg's complete modded games, and none of them have a situation where this would be relevant. All results being in the scum PT isn't the given that you want it to be.


But even then, this whole thing isn't hugely relevant. Even if the result was literally in the scum PT, that doesn't mean Ydrasse... responded to it, provided input on it, did anything outside the norm of what she did in this game thread.

I think it’s beyond obvious from all of her posting that the MMR claim was as much of a surprise to her as anyone. How would Ydrasse not have seen word one about such a claim- real or fake - existing? You’d have to be seriously arguing that she never looked at the scum pt which I find extremely difficult to fathom. I know the claim is bogus but it’s clear Ydrasse hadn’t read anything about it even existing in Lunar scum pt.

What specifically makes you think that from Ydrasse's posting?

That’s generally been my experience as scum. The mod usually posts all results in the scum pt. You’ve had different experiences?

Ydrasse’s posting read to me like she had as much awareness of that claim than anyone. I suppose since she’s a buddy, it’s conceivable that MMR discussed the gambit and she’s pretending not to know but it just read to me like she had no awareness of it.

[Past Present Future]

This conversation is very difficult to have in earnest when you start from a conclusion and talk past my points to continuously push the conclusion

????

I really don’t understand, Why aren’t you engaging my points? I’m sorry but I’m really not understanding your argument.

Your argument is that Ydra being checked out of the game in the main thread would also apply to the scum pt or?

I’m telling you how I read her reaction. You’re free to disagree with it but I don’t understand your reasoning? So sorry if you think I’m somehow being obtuse here but it’s not making sense to me. I really don’t understand what your point is. I’m not trying to frustrate you but how can I engage with you more to your liking if I don’t understand why you think it makes sense?

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Professiotic

I don’t think T-Bone is scum anymore and I think it was Meuh who said that Porkens wagon went through to try to save her.

Plus after RR flip, no reason for Prof trying to push CSF. Titus also thinks it’s Prof and if you read our early posts, she has been suspicious of Prof since the beginning. Still don’t understand what happened night 3 but Prof commute could be to make it look like they were the target.

[Past Present Future]

There was a REASON i switched from Ydrass to Porkens and started the Porkens wagon cause Ydrass was Townie.

I don’t really see what point you’re making here.
If anything, the fact Porkens gained momentum and Ydrasse didn’t despite similar positioning in the game points to Ydrasse having scum buddies protecting her.

Explain?

So the way I see it:

Ydrasse and Porkens' wagons happened one after the other, they were in similar positions of influence (both not super present, though at least Ydrasse existed) and had a similar amount of towncred. So there must be a reason why Porkens went through, and Ydrasse didn't.
Either:
1. Ydrasse is lunar scum who had one or two influential (high thread presence/high towncred) partners that prevented the lim on her from going through. Someone like T-bone, CSF or DDS is lunar scum and had her back.
2. Ydrasse just happened to be townread by key players, which prevented her from being limmed. (NAI in nature)

Because of the aforementioned similar positions from Porkens and Ydrasse, I find the first option more likely and specifically the idea of lunar!Ydrasse quite likely. and even if it wasn't a or some partners responsible for her living, she can still very much be scum.

If you think Ydrasse is town, I'd like to know: Why do you think she wasn't limmed, but Porkens was?

[Past Present Future]

Except it was Prof who started that wagon to save Ydrasse.

[Past Present Future]

VC 4.0.10


Ydrasse (3) Meuh, Cat Scratch Fever, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow [E-4]

Meuh (2) Ydrasse, Enchant
Professotic (2) Junkochan, T-Bone,

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,
Cat Scratch Fever (1) Firebringer
Porkens (1) Professotic,

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline Frozen for Porkens Replacement

VC 4.0.11



Porkens (6) Professotic, Junkochan, T-Bone, Cat Scratch Fever, Enchant, Meuh [E-1!]

Ydrasse (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Professotic (1) Ydrasse,
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,
Cat Scratch Fever (1) Firebringer

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline Frozen for Porkens Replacement

Dawn 2 Final VC

Porkens (7) Professotic, Junkochan, T-Bone, Cat Scratch Fever, Enchant, Meuh, Firebringer [Hammer!]

Ydrasse (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Professotic (1) Ydrasse,
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Radical Rat,

Not Voting (3): Porkens, Mathblade, Past Present Future ,

With 13 Alive it took 7 to eliminate
Deadline: 1 day*
*Deadline was Frozen for Porkens Replacement

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3. Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I don’t think I understand CSF. You’re saying you successfully protected Meuh but they’re dead. If what you’re saying is true, than how would it not point to a strongman? I could see the possibility of both factions teaming up I guess, would explain the lack of anything happening at nights.

[Past Present Future]

The shielded person is protected from one negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from all negative effects or kills).

Let's say that

1. Lunar tried to kill Meuh
2. Solar also tries to kill Meuh

I can only stop one of these kills but not the other.

I didn't successfully protect Meuh, but my shield successfully prevented one thing targeting her last night. But it was unable to prevent the second thing

So you think double kill then? That actually happened to me in Masochist mafia. I was nk’d twice but in that game probably both vigged and nk’d but I suppose I could have just been double nk’d. You’d have to ask Fire, he modded that game.

[Past Present Future]

No sorry that was just a hypothetical example to explain how my role works. I find it unlikely that Lunar can kill in the traditional sense given we haven't seen them kill.

I'm not sure what the second thing that Meuh was targeted was.

Well if you’re telling the truth, then that’s the only thing that could possibly make sense because you say strongman isn’t possible, right?

Because Lunar hasn’t done anything and Dangle’s role as potential lunar vanillaizer has to exist for a reason.

[Past Present Future]

¤ Limited Reveal Factional abilities will not be revealed when a faction member dies. Role abilities and alignment still flip as normal.

Anyone have any clue as to what this could possibly be referring to?

[Past Present Future]

What kind of negative effect?

[Past Present Future]

The only problem with your theory is that there’s no evidence of multitasking, unless you suggesting that Toog targeted Meuh and sent fake burn message to T-Bone as opposed RR or another Solar? I suppose that’s possible.

[Past Present Future]

I have reasons to think Prof could be avoiding this game.

[Past Present Future]

I'll be back by Tuesday at the latest. I am the angriest I have been in IRL and overreacting to things due to PTSD. I'm sorry for my lack of presence. When I do post, please accept my apologies in advance if to aggressive.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

I have reasons to think Prof could be avoiding this game.

as in game reasons or rl reasons

I don’t know anything about Prof personally but just check under his main, ProfessorDrapion.

[Past Present Future]

Prof is 100% avoiding the game. Why would he do that if he’s town? He’s been online since the day started but he’s not posted once in here. Why not if he’s town?

[Past Present Future]

Magician otoh hasn’t been online. Prof has.

[Past Present Future]

The core of the disconnect between our perspectives on this PPF is this

I think the evidence in the game thread suggests MMR's result was based on the role they had. Whereas you have repeatedly said this is a ridiculous interpretation of the events and that their role is obviously made up.

If you're town, a lot of your discourse on this topic throughout the game has been tinted by your further evidence that the result was

inaccurate

, if it existed. But no one else has that information, because no one else knows you're town.

I believe MMR's result was real because that most clearly explains their behaviour to me. MMR has no convincing reason to claim a result at the start of Noon 1 in the first place, unless there's something to claim. When I explained to MMR that you being guilty was the only sensible interpretation of their result and they took in what I was explaining to them, their response was to immediately scumread you and vote you. Their result brought a lot of unnecessary attention to them that isn't sufficiently justified by your claim. MMR ACTUALLY HAD a role that would give them the result they claimed.

All of this is why I believe MMR had the result on you.

Why is this an unreasonable interpretation of the events?

We’ve been over this like a gazillion times already, haven’t we? Their posts looked like they were rolefishing me and I and Mastina already referenced how the interaction with Yume saying we supposedly lied about being a neighbourizer dispute it (when we thought she had softed that re: the prunes thing), It’s already ALL of that in my ISO but I think Mastina who we now know to be dead town and much better at explaining mech, explains this better than I ever could. I’m half asleep now but I’ll try to pull up the specific posts she made explaining why their claim is mech debunked.

Wrt Ydrasse, she made posts saying things like she liked my reads or something I guess? I’ll do my best to try to explain why I think Ydrasse looked like she had any informed awareness of any MMR claim but like I said, there’s no way of knowing for sure but as I had already stated. when I’ve played scum before all mod result messages were in the scum pt and even if Ydrasse was checked out of the game, surely she read that right?

And since I know MMR lied, I would also think it not impossible that one of the heads might have possibly posted about their gambit but that too might also never have happened. I strongly got the impression that she didn’t know anything about it that either if it that even happened?

I honestly don’t know what more you need me to say on it?

ISO us but especially ISO Mastina. It would also greatly help I think to ISO T-Bone because I think he might have quoted one of Mastina’s posts on that and that would really help me to find two more of her posts meck debunking MMR claim.

I’ll try to find all of this tomorrow.

[Past Present Future]

That’s true Dangle, only I 100% know for sure they lied but we do have flipped dead town to explain why you’re wrong and you are.

[Past Present Future]

Btw, just checked again, Prof is 100% avoiding the game. I refuse to vote anywhere else today.

[Past Present Future]

You're going to need to respond to those things with specific reasons (or quotes if you really need to). I am not going to reread every post you and mastina wrote on the subject to find the specific evidence you are referencing. It's been a while since I read it, but I know for a fact that I disagreed with some of mastina's analysis of the subject, and I believe she was biased specifically by her townread on you in her analysis of the MMR claim situation.

I have and why won’t you help me with that then? Why is it all on me to find out all of these quotes proving I’m not lying? Do you know how many times I’ve looked for the specific Mastina postd, hell even my own despite spending sometimes hours - still not being able to find them?

Thankfully because T-Bones ISO doesn’t mercifully resemble a War and Peace novel, I have actual hope in even finding them.

That doesn’t change the fact that Mastina’s a mech expert and I don’t think since we know she’s town, her analysis ought to be discredited. So what if she had extremely good reasons to think I’m town, how does that make her mech analysis any less valid?

[Past Present Future]

With one buddy (professotic) removed from the game, the other (Ydrasse) paying little attention, and hydra partners who weren't really around, RH9 was basically on his own in the Lunar scumteam. He had a guilty result on PPF, but he got confused about the result, and with no one else to talk it out with him on his team, he claimed an equivalent result in the game thread, not quite realising it was a guilty. It wasn't until it was made clear to him in the game thread itself that he realised it was actually a guilty.

I think that's the game we're looking at.

*interally screaming*

So I guess you just want me to essentially waste my time proving this is wrong because you obviously aren’t listening to a goddamned thing I’ve been saying!

[Past Present Future]

Tell me seriously Dangle, why are you even asking me to probably spend what could possibly be hours looking up all of these quotes if your mind’s already made up?

Prior to Ydrasse flip, you were looking at VCA showing it made no sense for it to be me, or was that CSF?

But now you’re somehow arguing that Ydrasse flip makes MMR’s lies more believable when it’s beyond clear the exact opposite is the case.

But seriously, just make up your mind because the evidence is there but I’ll be damned if I put in all of that effort just for you to just fucking ignore it. Yeah now I am getting really annoyed.

You asked me to provide evidence which exists in abundance and it’s clear you’re not interested in reading any of it.

[Past Present Future]

If anyone seems to not be interested in engaging with me it’s you.

[Past Present Future]

Also explain to me why I kill Meuh here and why last night? Can you do that? She already checked me the night Math died and there’s no way Math wouldn’t be dead noon 1 if Titus were scum here.

We 100% knew Math was deathtunnelled on us and would likely vig us, so you’re going to argue I suppose that me and Titus are complete fucking idiots and were totally okay with that?

[Past Present Future]

With one buddy (professotic) removed from the game, the other (Ydrasse) paying little attention, and hydra partners who weren't really around, RH9 was basically on his own in the Lunar scumteam. He had a guilty result on PPF, but he got confused about the result, and with no one else to talk it out with him on his team, he claimed an equivalent result in the game thread, not quite realising it was a guilty. It wasn't until it was made clear to him in the game thread itself that he realised it was actually a guilty.

I think that's the game we're looking at.

Yeah sure that totally explains why he wanted Math to vig Mastina over us right?

[Past Present Future]

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.

[Past Present Future]

In the obvious interest in not miselimming me, you should do your best to help with that. If you still believe the evidence doesn’t point to it clearly not being me, then why not look up those posts to prove what I’m saying is wrong?

I know I’m not but it is really really fucking hard finding anything in this game and ours and Mastina’s ISOs are particularly dense, so it should be in EVERYONE’s internests in looking up all of these posts I would think.

Ydrasse’s may be the only one that won’t give me a massive headache to sort through.

[Past Present Future]

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

Dafuq? And Roden and Ircher you’re going to argue couldn’t? That makes absolutely no sense either.

So you’re argument is Prof knew what MMR was doing and gave them literally no help? Are you even reading your posts?


Explain to me why Math didn’t die Noon 1 and why we kill Meuh AFTER she already checked us. Go!

[Past Present Future]

Prof would have had to know what MMR were planning though the day before, so they would have 100% had to have helped them with that. You’re pretty much arguing that Prof didn’t give any insights into helping them out with their botched fake claim, which I find very difficult to believe.


And again you’re still not answering my questions. Why does scum!us not kill Math noon 1, who made it beyond abundantly clear he would vig us? Keep also in mind that he tends to sr Titus in almost every game she’s in, so you’d seriously have to be arguing we’re seriously stupid and granted last noon is weaker but Meuh already checked us, so I don’t know why you’d think scum!us kills Math on noon 2 when we almost got misvigged and I think the only reason we didn’t is that unwnd pissed Math off and Meuh said he was sun attuned. I think that’s probably the only reason we didn’t die dusk 2, so that’s why I say Math dying on noon 2 instead of noon 1, pretty much clears us unless you seriously think we’re really that stupid?

[Past Present Future]

Both Titus and I knew that Math was going to 100% vig us, so you literally would have to argue we’re complete imbeciles here, because he almost did and that’s a fact.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle, I really wish you’d seriously not continue to disregard every single thing that debunks your argument. This is so extremely frustrating because I know you’re wrong and I don’t know how to make you see it?

[Past Present Future]

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.

This isn't actually making a statement. You're still supposing your conclusion without making any argument.

My response to what you're trying to imply here is: this post was before MMR voted you, and before MMR realised what they had was a guilty on you.

You mean lied about that. Because I know that’s impossible so it’s just really frustrating if you’re going to continue to say something I know to be a lie isn’t. I know we’re town, so if you’re goal is to just tilt me with this,,
keep it up but we’re going to flip town. When you’re seriously willing to look at the evidence why this is wrong. let me know because I seriously feel like I’m going to lose brain cells continuing to argue with someone who clearly is refusing to listen to reason.

[Past Present Future]

Or, when placed in context: does T-Bone let this claim happen?
I believe professotic would.

Do you want my input on this, or would that be too much WIFOM?

I would very much appreciate your input on this!

Okay, so the short answer is, no, not if it was a fake claim. The long answer will require us to make some assumptions, namely that I am scum with MMR and Ydrasse. Ydrasse isn't posting as much as MMR was, so in terms of who would be valuable to the scumteam, that's MMR. We're not giving up his slot on a fakeclaim. We're also not fakeclaiming on PPF, who poses no threat to our team. They hard townread Ydrasse, and didn't have enough town equity to lead a lim on MMR or I. PPF only becomes a threat if a townblock forms with them, mastina-slot, yume-slot, and then someone like you or Mathblade to lead it. I think if you believe nothing else from this post, know that I don't view players who rely on metareads as a threat, so there's no way if I had input onto this plan that I allow it. Yes I bus and Ydrasse would have been a prime bus candidate, but Ydrasse is only valuable as a bus candidate if MMR is still alive for this hypothetical scumteam I'm not on.

Now if we believed PPF was Solar scum? Then I'd like to think we'd have a better plan than what MMR came up with. But even then, in multiball I don't value eliminating the other scumteam early, so I don't know for sure, but there's a chance if I believed we confirmed scum from the other team, we sit on the info until we need it to save ourselves. IE the town seriously starts to consider one of us as scum down the line, so that's when MMR drops the bombshell that PPF is scum.

I usually think a lot in games how I would play it much better if I were scum, and that's easy for me to do as town, but less easy for you to believe when you don't know my alignment. I honestly think had I rolled scum this game the team I was on would be in a much better position than the teams find themselves in now.

Oh yes I missed it lol reading now

That’s not the post I need to prove Mastina’s point. Find that one and the other two follow.

[Past Present Future]

What I've asked for is for you to lay out the case that it's *obvious*, as you claim, that MMR just 100% lied about their result on you, because that conclusion is not only not obvious to me but not a likely explanation of what has happened

and instead of a case for that

I'm getting quotes followed by

'Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.'

Which makes it very hard to follow what your actual thoughts are behind the subject!

Seriously how in the actual fuck do you even expect me to engage with you when you continue to post crap that I know to be false?

[Past Present Future]

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.

This isn't actually making a statement. You're still supposing your conclusion without making any argument.

My response to what you're trying to imply here is: this post was before MMR voted you, and

before MMR realised what they had was a guilty on you

.

Like this one for example, how do you expect me to engage with that garbage and if you’re objective is to get to the truth instead of trying to tilt me, why do you keep posting this? I know it’s false and it just makes me not want to bother discussing anything with you.

[Past Present Future]

8169 is very believable from a town perspective fwiw.

And where am I disagreeing with that?

[Past Present Future]

What I've asked for is for you to lay out the case that it's *obvious*, as you claim, that MMR just 100% lied about their result on you, because that conclusion is not only not obvious to me but not a likely explanation of what has happened

and instead of a case for that

I'm getting quotes followed by

'Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.'

Which makes it very hard to follow what your actual thoughts are behind the subject!

Seriously how in the actual fuck do you even expect me to engage with you when you continue to post crap that I know to be false?

I’m not going to continue to bang my head against a brick wall if all of my attempts to show you that I know this isn’t true continue to fall on deaf ears. I’m town, not a fucking masochist!

[Past Present Future]

I know I promised to look up those posts but I need not to respond to this for awhile because every time you keep insisting they had a guilty when I know they didn’t, I feel like putting my fist through a freaking wall. I obviously wouldn’t do that but I just can’t read anymore of that.

Make up your mind, I can try my damndest to show you why this doesn’t make sense but not if you’re going to continue to post that. No game is worth it. I’m done for now.

[Past Present Future]

What I've asked for is for you to lay out the case that it's *obvious*, as you claim, that MMR just 100% lied about their result on you, because that conclusion is not only not obvious to me but not a likely explanation of what has happened

and instead of a case for that

I'm getting quotes followed by

'Yeah totally makes sense they weren’t lying. If you want to keep ignoring blatant evidence they lied, then there’s absolutely no point my wasting anymore time with this.'

Which makes it very hard to follow what your actual thoughts are behind the subject!

I have given you points.

We 100% knew Math was going to vig us, so why wouldn’t scum!us kill him?
VCA points away from it.

Mastina, now confitown debunked it.

It’s honestly not for a lack of trying but it’s extremely difficult to be able to do that when you keep posting that MMR had a gulity on us when I know that to be impossible. How would you feel if you were me, knowing that flipped scum not only claimed a guilty on you that you know to be bs but another player keeps posting that like it’s some kind of fact when you know it’s not? I think you’d be legit upset too, wouldn’t you?

[Past Present Future]

I actually think Nancy is clearly explaining her thought process on Ydrasse? I'm not sure what isn't clear to you DDS

Which, we're certain that they aren't aligned because PPF can't be Lunar. So regardless of PPF's alignment its an earnest thought process imo. Unless you think they are trying to mask how the scum PT works, since scum!PPF would know.

I think that T-Bone’s likely town for this.

[Past Present Future]

I’m seriously wondering how Prof hasn’t been hammered yet. He has clearly given up, so obviously there’s not going to be a 1v1 with T-Bone. Prof is confiscum now.

So now I just need to figure out who the last Solar is.

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone can you please help me find that Mastina post you quoted? because I believe there’s three of them discussing how the Yume interaction debunks it?

I’m just so frustrated rn because I know it isn’t me but don’t know how to prove it? :/

[Past Present Future]

Meuh needed to die (or otherwise be tampered with) to avoid anyone else from being cleared as Solar

Doesn’t explain why Math didn’t die noon 1. Titus knew 100% he would most likely vig us and we know he almost did. Had both of these things: Meuh calling unwnd sun attuned and him pissing off Math hadn’t happened, 100% we would have been dead.

[Past Present Future]

Either way I think we're not getting anything out of Prof, time to flip. We can deal with whether PPF is scum or not tomorrow.

+1

No way is Prof town who’s ghosting the thread. Town!Prof would probably be doing exactly what T-Bone said he would. You literally couldn’t shut him up in LOST or keep him from spamming the thread every chance he got.

[Past Present Future]

Meuh needed to die (or otherwise be tampered with) to avoid anyone else from being cleared as Solar

Doesn’t explain why Math didn’t die noon 1. Titus knew 100% he would most likely vig us and we know he almost did. Had both of these things: Meuh calling unwnd sun attuned and him pissing off Math hadn’t happened, 100% we would have been dead.

Also how does Meuh being the nk even point to me?

[Past Present Future]

I have reasons to think Prof could be avoiding this game.

as in game reasons or rl reasons

I don’t know anything about Prof personally but just check under his main, ProfessorDrapion.

This is angleshooting.

There’s nothing in the rules forbidding this. Only thing you’re not allowed to discuss are ongoing games.

[Past Present Future]

I think (?) the mastina post y'all are looking for is 3932, which is a novel in of itself, so here's mastina's explanation for why MMR would announce a guilty on town!PPF. But this was before we learned what MMR's role was.

In fact, I have a bit of a theory.
Yume was publicly a claimed investigative role on D1.

Also, PPF lied about selling apples.

Really?
We tried to investigate them last Night and we received no result.
Measles think that this could be due to our Loyal modifier.

Yume, in 3014, specified a role that hinted that Yume had targeted Past Present Future N1.

I have a theory based off of that.

MMR knew that Yume had claimed an investigative role D1;
Yume hinted at having some form of damning result on PPF in 3014;
MMR, seeing this, made an erroneous assumption that Yume targeted PPF N1;

My theory is that MMR made a faked result on PPF thinking that Yume would back them up, not realizing Yume's actual target was me.

Iirc there’s actually 3 Mastina posts discussing it in extensive detail. I also recall her thinking we were bathed in light but our time shifting role, if MMR was informed could also make sense since it definitely looked as though they were rolefishing me. They might just be aware that our role in some form exists.

Anyway, I appreciate you finding it but like I said, I believe there’s 3 Mastina posts in total about it in total, not just one.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Whaaat?

But aren’t you astral ghost or something? Now you’re also claiming some kind of usb? And why weren’t you posting until now? I thought you were ghosting the thread?

[Past Present Future]

u just got banned....im sure u are aware of this.

Oh shit, yeah you could face harsher penalties. Don’t ignore bans, mods will smite you.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Whaaat?

But aren’t you astral ghost or something? Now you’re also claiming some kind of usb? And why weren’t you posting until now? I thought you were ghosting the thread?

They did claim that they were a universal backup, they got MMR's role

But MMR died dawn 1 and now it’s dusk 4? So why aren’t they dayvig, Math’s role? Or are his and Dangle’s role somehow immune from that? It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me. I’m skeptical. lol

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Whaaat?

But aren’t you astral ghost or something? Now you’re also claiming some kind of usb? And why weren’t you posting until now? I thought you were ghosting the thread?

They did claim that they were a universal backup, they got MMR's role

But MMR died dawn 1 and now it’s dusk 4? So why aren’t they dayvig, Math’s role? Or are his and Dangle’s role somehow immune from that? It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me. I’m skeptical. lol

Oh nm, MMR died before Math, disregard.

[Past Present Future]

MMR died first, so they're claiming they inherited the first role that died, which is typically how UB works, no?

Yeah, you’re right but why did they not claim it before now? Didn’t we do a mass claim?

[Past Present Future]

Anyway I think we've all lost our appetite for more conversation, let's spare the mod from finding a replacement

VOTE: professotic

Yeah, don’t want to wait until next month since we waited like forever for Junko to be replaced. I would be extremely shocked if this flips town.

[Past Present Future]

No chance it's PPF
No chance it's CSF
Magician is town
I don’t think it's you
T-Bone is probably town here?
And I'd be very surprised if FA and STD were partners. Though I suppose if this doesn't flip Lunar, that's the only place I can currently see being wrong.

I would be extremely shocked in that case because it totally did not look like theatre to me. Had Ydrasse flipped town like I thought, I could see it maybe with MMR but not really with Ydrasse. I think it’s probably Prof because if they are in fact usb and they’re role is useless, then why not claim it earlier?

[Past Present Future]

I don't have any info from my role

I remember thinking save the dragons (ydrasse) and frozen angel (firebringer) were probably unaligned because they had that heated convo about dragons not wanting to learn mech. I still think fb is solar. Really not sure who the last lunar is

That said, i think we can lim either scum today. There's been 4 Nights, assuming worst case scenario and lunar arsonists - 4 douses on people still alive should give us 3p if they activate tonight. It's more important to hit scum of either faction i think. Can someone check that?

I was thinking the same thing especially since STD replaced out soon afterwards.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Dingle

Radical and Dingle both pushed my slot early day 1 with Mastina.
Mastina was Town
Radical was Solar
Dingle can be Lunar

I’m very surprised Prof flipped town but there’s was a VC where he was at E-2 with MMR on the wagon. @Dangle why do you think Prof thinks it’s you? I’m worried since I wrongly tr you last time and Prof caught you?

[Past Present Future]

VC 1.0.15




professotic (7) Mastina, Bunnyonce, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Scarfmanship, Yume, MMR [E-2]

Mastina (4) Frozen Angel, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe,

scarfmanship (1)furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja,
Bunnyonce (1) professotic,


Not Voting (3) Enchant, Ydrasse, Mathblade,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-01 13:00:17)

Moral of the story is I guess, bad to ignore VCA.

[Past Present Future]

like you can make up shit all you want but you can't tell me, reading post 93, that she was talking about mastina's read being alarming alarming in different ways. that's not how it's worded. if she made a mistake writing it, she messed up, it has nothing to do with my awareness of the game and im not going to sit here and get insulted by someone who said something they didn't mean and should own that

This definitely doesn’t sound like scum theatre. Fire and Ydrasse not aligned.

[Past Present Future]

I'm probably overreacting.

Mastina is a slot I'd like to sort later. I think this is just what she does and if it's entirely random she's scum but if it makes some sense she's probably town. I am leaning toward the latter.

I don't think that you are overreacting.
138 definitely reads like shade, to me, coming from FA.
It's completely understandable and NAI to not understand the mech in a closed setup.
VOTE: FA
-Rubella

I think this looks like chainsawing. I will deny this if this turns out to be false but the way MMR jumped to STD’s defense the way that they did, does not look to me like Fire’s a buddy.

[Past Present Future]

she is purposefully refusing to engage with me to avoid giving more context for the logical case/reasoning I have for my vote on her and to not have to drop her fake confbiase

there is absolutely no other reason not to.

I'm not moving away from her until I find something even more promising or if I get something actually promising from her

I dunno.

Every other post isn’t Math scum and it’s content.

So she is delivering something readable and it isn’t the scum tunnel and quit she’s done in the past

Granted that content

might

be scum content

But it’s loads better than what was previously done

I think that this fits with my opinion of mastina right now.
Her content has improved and I think that this might be either town!mastina letting go or scum!mastina changing her play.
I'm leaning towards the former, though the main thing that I'm still a bit annoyed about is that we haven't seen the results of the FA meta research.
But I'm probably just impatient, given that if mastina was to do that, I'll probably feel more convinced of town!mastina.
But then, I can't read mastina and I have to admit this.
-Rubella

math posts feels genuine

this feels distancing

why people read MMR as town?

Another post that looks unaligned with MMR.

[Past Present Future]

don't give me this bullshit

fucking hell

the upside is i don't know if scum would make a post that disgusting so maybe i'm coming around to you being town

If I wanna be blunt I don't care what's your read about me at this point. Maybe later when it's more relevant I will respond to your concerns about what I have to say again.

I'm just not capable of sorting of people of your type and I don't mean that in an offensive way to you. It's a game and people play it with different calibers.

I just don't have my older days patience and energy to go in cicrlces about something so obvious when the other side is completely disconnected from it, nor I can read it in any ways alignment indicative so it just gives me a headache. so I prefer to move on and look on other angels like MMR weird jump on the case and the back track

So whatever

if you want to say we're different, that's fine. i play pretty differently from everyone on site and i can live with that.

if you want to insult me, i'm not going to be happy. Don't insult me.

im sorry. im not trying to make this uncomfortable or be mean or whatever, that's not me. so i'm sorry. gonna go away for a bit.

UNVOTE:

And then STD replaced out RIGHT AFTER THIS. Why would STD have replaced out if this was actually scum theatre? He was clearly tilted because FA caught him. Fire can only be town or Solar.

[Past Present Future]

don't give me this bullshit

fucking hell

These two posts are in response to professotic, not FA

I believe it's obvious that STD is legitimately angry with FA
I don't believe this disqualifies FA from being STD's partner

I don't personally feel confident sorting at all based on the STD interactions, because I already confidently read STD as town based on them and was wrong. So I'm looking for other evidence that suggests FA/Firebringer wouldn't be Lunar, and I'm not convinced there's anything else substantial to back that idea up.

He replaced out because of it. In what world do you possibly get scum theatre from that?

[Past Present Future]

It's not a distinction that massively matters to me when I have confidence that Firebringer's a scum flip regardless of the flavor

You also thought that of furtive and Prof and I know you’re wrong on me so this isn’t persuasive, especially since I don’t see why it couldn’t be you?

[Past Present Future]

I also initially thought FA could be town, so sell me on Fire because I think he plays like this pretty much every game? But I do think if he’s scum here, it’s Solar. I don’t believe STD replaces out if FA’s a buddy.

[Past Present Future]

Another reason I’m suspicious of your slot is that you wanted to lim us over Prof yesterday and only voted him when the majority was opposed to that.

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Dingle

Radical and Dingle both pushed my slot early day 1 with Mastina.
Mastina was Town
Radical was Solar
Dingle can be Lunar

I’m very surprised Prof flipped town but there’s was a VC where he was at E-2 with MMR on the wagon.

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest with this comment. I've already discussed the fact that MMR had a prof push previously. It was originally why I thought Prof was unlikely Lunar.

@Dangle why do you think Prof thinks it’s you? I’m worried since I wrongly tr you last time and Prof caught you?

Prof openly admitted in this game that he starts with a 'hero solve' and then puts together evidence from there. I don't know why he decided we were scum. I don't have any confidence in Drapion's scumhunting ability. I don't think Drapion's scumread on Bella in Lost was based on much of substance either, despite being accurate. I explained as much to Bella at the start of this game, and she didn't see it until we got a little while into this game. Because in Lost she was scum who got caught by his PR, and in this game we're town and he incorrectly tunneled us all game.

It's also worth noting that like 80% of the content in this game has come from Klick, and Bella's a lot less active in this game than she was in that game. She's also town here.

But you still voted him?

[Past Present Future]

I remember thinking save the dragons (ydrasse) and frozen angel (firebringer) were probably unaligned because they had that heated convo about dragons not wanting to learn mech. I still think fb is solar. Really not sure who the last lunar is

This was my reason for thinking Firebringer couldn't be Lunar

I'm kinda running out of options though. And I already thought STD didn't make sense as scum period for that interaction, and was wrong. That makes me unwilling to rule out Firebringer as Lunar from the interaction. I don't think anything FA did makes the slot unlikely Lunar. I don’t think anything Firebringer has done makes him unlikely Lunar. It's just the STD interaction that I've already read incorrectly once, and so with limited options for Lunar, I feel as though that could be the weak point in my thinking at the moment.

Regardless I think Firebringer is likely to flip any flavor of scum so it's not hugely relevant. But still!

Look if it’s not you then idk why you’re not looking at other slots?

I don’t think Fire can be lunar based off of STD replacing out, he can only be town or solar, so he is pretty much my last pick for possible lunar. Sure, solar isn’t off the table but I don’t understand why you’re not looking for that?

[Past Present Future]

He replaced out because of it. In what world do you possibly get scum theatre from that?

I'm pretty certain it's against the rules to discuss reasons for replacing out?

Regardless, your reduction of the possibilities as either 'legitimate frustration with someone STD is unaligned with' or 'scum theatre' is short-sighted. Specifically, I feel as though 'legitimate frustration with a scumbuddy' is a possibility.

It's not a distinction that massively matters to me when I have confidence that Firebringer's a scum flip regardless of the flavor

You also thought that of furtive and Prof and I know you’re wrong on me so this isn’t persuasive, especially since I don’t see why it couldn’t be you?

Good thing my goal wasn't to be persuasive to you, but rather to state my thoughts

Another reason I’m suspicious of your slot is that you wanted to lim us over Prof yesterday and only voted him when the majority was opposed to that.

I both didn't want to lim you yesterday AND didn't vote Prof

I didn't place a vote yesterday. I probably would have hammered Prof had he reached E-1. Limming you yesterday was something I considered, but never actively wanted.

Where is that against the rules? I’m pretty sure it isn’t - not on MS anyway.

Anyway no, I don’t think I’m being shortsighted and if Fire were to flip lunar, I will apologize to you but I think that’s

extremely

unlikely. If there’s ever been an interaction in my entire mafia history that screams the complete antithesis of scum theatre, it’s hands down, FA & STD, so if anyone is being shortsighted here, it’s not me.

[Past Present Future]

I saw there theory about 4 lunars. I don't really hate this idea, but.

Lunars DO have something factional.

I’d love to figure out what that is because once again, nada happened during nights, unless anyone knows differently?

Unless they do have delayed kills or something like CSF suggested. Otherwise, no clue.

[Past Present Future]

But you still voted him?

This deserves its own post because it is

the single most annoying thing

I come across in playing Mafia

When playing Mafia, there very often comes a time where I wind up with too many townreads for the game. I can cite many, many examples of where this has happened.

When this happens, my response is to go, 'hm, obviously I must have gotten something wrong. Who have I wrongly townread?'

Which makes sense, right? Because I can't be right on all of my conclusions if those conclusions have eliminated too many people as possible scum.

So I reevaluate my reasons for thinking people are town, and I decide which reasons have the least merit.

Notably, that often does

not

mean that I magically stop agreeing with the reasoning on a base level. It just means that I think there could be something about the situation that I have yet to consider.

A good example of this happening in this game was with MMR. I believed the way MMR handled their claim on D2 made very little sense if they were scum who made the whole thing up. I ALSO thought you were not likely to be scum. But I knew at least one of those conclusions had to be wrong. So, DESPITE the fact that I still believed MMR's behaviour made little sense as scum, I decided I was more likely to be wrong on that than I was to be wrong about my townread on you. You can see that thought process clearly in the post where I vote MMR:

VOTE: MMR

I don't think PPF is going to flip scum and it's more likely that I'm just wrong on MMR's claim being town

That's also why, DESPITE the fact that the most plausible explanation of MMR's behaviour to me is that they had a result indicative of a guilty result on you, I STILL have not actively pushed for your elimination. Because I strongly believe that there are reasons you're unlikely to flip scum based on play.

And therefore, I feel as though there's something I'm missing, or misreading.

That's the same thing that happened yesterday. There were reasons professotic wasn't likely to be Lunar. But I think that's true of everyone at this point. So I've got to be wrong about something, and I decided that Prof was the weakest read.


It deeply annoys me that people pretend that reasons that are separate from one another have to be perfectly consistent with each other. It's possible to believe something that is wrong, or that would be right if not for something that one hasn't considered yet.

I just really think it makes very little sense for anyone who’s read STD/FA interactions to seriously think that could be scum theatre and I do think STD’s replacing out does seal that for me and again I say, ift isn’t you, you need to be looking elsewhere.

Not trying to be offensive or anything but it just reads lazy to me to say Fire could be either, when STD/FA interactions demonstrate otherwise.

So I’m annoyed that you aren’t considering any other possibilities for lunar. If you’re lock convinced Fire has to be solar then fine but I just can’t see a world here where Fire and Ydrasse are ever buddies based off of those interactions.

[Past Present Future]

Nancy can you please link me your 3 most recent scum games?

I don’t remember. I usually play on hydras or alts, so you might want to look there but if I can’t remember, good luck in finding them.


Only one comes to mind that’s recent was Even Odd Killers. I was 50% of Rats.

And I would like both of you to return the favour since not particularly impressed with this deflection

[Past Present Future]

You keep saying 'scum theatre'
Can you please define what you mean by that when you say it?
Because I've never said it in this conversation and I suspect I have a very different definition of it than you.

Scum theatre is when two groupscum fake argue to not appear to be aligned.

And I don’t believe FA & STD look aligned from those interactions. Prior to Ydrasse flip, I could possibly see it with MMR because I thought they were wking STD and distancing FA but not with Ydrasse and Fire because I don’t see them as ever aligned. STD in retrospect looks like tilted scum who got caught for possibly the wrong reasons and threw a fit at FA.

[Past Present Future]

Nancy can you please link me your 3 most recent scum games?

I don’t remember. I usually play on hydras or alts, so you might want to look there but if I can’t remember, good luck in finding them.


Only one comes to mind that’s recent was Even Odd Killers. I was 50% of Rats.

And I would like both of you to return the favour since not particularly impressed with this deflection

Probably need it more from Klick since I know of two from Bella.

[Past Present Future]

Scum theatre is when two groupscum fake argue to not appear to be aligned.

Right, okay
I've already said I don't think their argument was fake
So why do you keep referring to my stance as STD and FA doing 'scum theatre' when I've explicitly said I don't think that's what's happening

Well if your argument is that they’re somehow tilted buddies then I think that makes even less sense because it doesn’t look like that to me at all.

I was in this game where SS and Guilty Lion were scum and I caught GL in that because when GL pushed SS, scum!SS treated it pretty much like a joke. Otoh, he got noticeably tilted at anyone else pushing him.

[Past Present Future]

Nancy can you please link me your 3 most recent scum games?

Only one comes to mind that’s recent was Even Odd Killers. I was 50% of Rats.

So you was 16 of rats?

I was half of that hydra along with RR, which you already know.

[Past Present Future]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89739
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=88034
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=85710
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83872

Enjoy, none of them are very long
Let me know what you get from them please!

Really not very much, probably stick to trying to read Bella then.

[Past Present Future]

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89992&user_select%5B%5D=36815

And here, not really sure how helpful that will be to you, since the vast majority of posts were made by RR in that.

You can look up my main since I usually ego post in all of my hydra games.

[Past Present Future]

Well like I said I think Fire can only be solar or town. I honestly don’t believe he can be lunar, so if you’re telling the truth, you need to look deeper.

[Past Present Future]

Well like I said I think Fire can only be solar or town. I honestly don’t believe he can be lunar, so if you’re telling the truth, you need to look deeper.

Who do

you

think is Lunar, Nancy?

That’s what I’m trying to find out but not CSF or Fire. Could be you or T-Bone? I guess Magician and Enchant possibilities? I just don’t think it’s Fire. I think Ydra flip spewed Fire as NOT lunar and I think CSF probably town due to both my Yume read and RR flip.

So assuming it’s not you, if you took Fire off the table, who would be your next likely guess? Or maybe tell me who you think is highly unlikely. I don’t believe STD and FA are ever buddies here, so I’d pretty much bet the. game on that. I would be totally shocked if I’m wrong about this.

[Past Present Future]

I have others I'd like to add to that list but I want to start with the obvious ones to not flood the idea space too much and let others weigh in on the PoE idea itself

I’m inclined to agree but I think Fire is an extremely obvious not lunar. The way STD reacted to FA push isn’t how scum usually reacts to being pushed by a buddy. I still can’t understand how you’re not seeing that. Why STD react the way he did if FA was a buddy? I think scum caught for the wrong reasons. I think STD would have probably made that same post as town wrt the mech thing and got rattled when FA jumped on him for that.

[Past Present Future]

I don't think Frozen Angel and STD were partners
I think the FA and STD argument doesn't happen the way it did if they were partners

I looked up that post you made wrt CSF and found this on the same page.

No one else other than flipped scum has claimed any kind of protective, so I think CSF’s very likely town.

[Past Present Future]

Because Scarf's read on DDS just evaporated? I hadn't considered that possibility. But for them to be scum together, Scarf was bussing his buddy and risked losing a buddy and getting his faction vanilla-ized

I know that’s kind of the argument Dangle’s making but Dangle was never once in any danger on d1. I would just like to really hear a lot more from Magician.

[Past Present Future]

Firebringer didn't really engage with MMR/PPF on day 2 at all

Neither did Ydrasse really, come to think of it

Okay but Ydrasse was aligned with MMR. Firebringer maybe isn't??

I'm just really confused why you're making relations between players we either know or suspect aren't aligned?

I just think it’s so blatantly obvious to me that FA and STD can’t be buddies. He was way too tilted at her push on him. That’s why I wrongly read Ydrasse as town because MMR’s STD defence looked like such a wk to me but what it looks like now is scum probably chainsawing. Buddies generally don’t get that extremely tilted when a buddy pushes them.

[Past Present Future]

Firebringer didn't really engage with MMR/PPF on day 2 at all

Neither did Ydrasse really, come to think of it

Okay but Ydrasse was aligned with MMR. Firebringer maybe isn't??

I'm just really confused why you're making relations between players we either know or suspect aren't aligned?

He maybe isn't but I'm not entirely sure. It's scummy to not engage with that 1v1, and this particular scumminess is more likely to come from Lunar, because if MMr is Lunar & PPF is town, why wouldn't Solar egg on this 1v1

I think that’s probably nia for Fire and again, I don’t believe STD gets that angry at buddy FA here, so I don’t believe Fire can be lunar, not with those FA/STD interactions.

[Past Present Future]

Why is it NAI for fire?

Have you read any of his games?

[Past Present Future]

VC 2.0.3
Mastina (4) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer, Yume [E-4]

past Present Future (3) Toogeloo, Enchant, Scarfmanship

MMR (2) Radical Rat, T-bone
Scarfmanship (2) Past Present Future, Mastina

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,


Not Voting (3) Ydrasse, MMR, Mathblade,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

mastina wagon was a distraction and I find it unlikely for it to be all town

???

We already know that three flipped scum were on it, so yeah very possibly but then I was wrong about Ydrasse, so don’t know. I guess the million dollar question is if MMR really did miss her claim but it’s also possible it doesn’t matter.

[Past Present Future]

Daily reminder that PPF's spam posting on the topic of me is a diversion from the fact that they have NO reads and will NOT make reads because that would give town information about who their partners are.

Also PPF is town, source: Dude trust me, just let me use my solar rolecop ability real quick tonight and then make up some fakeclaim tomorrow.

I was rr reading scarf's iso to see if the slot did have any associaives ( last night I was saying to klick that I town read all three slots, which is actually quite unusual, but also that none of them did anything massively out of a good scum range, but I didn't scum read barely any posts - early scarf seemed scumny but really towned it up re the Mmr/PPF thing) and found this. This has kind of been my problem with the Ppf slot all along: I don't know where they stand.

They've been vaguely softing a scum read in us for like....three phases now, without any follow through? They don't engage with players like drapion about it, it's just kind of....there (I feel it's because they know that I'm scum reading them)

Klick has been saying that they can't see the scum motivation for a lot of their posting, but I struggle to see how their posting moves the game forward.

It's also a Poe thing: it's probably not scarf, if it's t bone or cafe they are playing really, really well, enchant has done some town indicative things....

(Also, scarfs pressure on MMR just means they are not aligned. The claim didn't need a bus in the way that scarf did.)

B.

I really expected Prof to flip scum and when he didn’t, I’m trying to figure out whom I’m wrong on and yes, I definitely trust T-Bone’s and CSF’s posting over yours. After yesterday, I don’t see why that comes as some huge surprise to you?

[Past Present Future]

It would be extremely helpful to me if you’d link 388 rather than just reference the number. I’m also frustrated with you because I strongly believe Fire can’t be lunar and you pretty much just dismissed that. So if you’re go to ignore what I consider to be an extremely valid take, then I don’t understand why you even care what my opinion is.

[Past Present Future]

"here is a page number tell me if its legit"
Me: "what?"

???

Of course it’s legit but a link makes it alot easier to look up.

[Past Present Future]

Why is it NAI for fire?

Have you read any of his games?

Yeah I've played with him too. Is he actually someone who ignores a mechanical 1v1 in favor of a pet scumread?

A mechanical 1v1? I really can’t recall a comparable situation mech speaking, with him as either alignment.

[Past Present Future]

DDS is trying to point to page 338

Can you just please quote/link the relevant posts for me? I have everything set to descending and couldn’t find it.

[Past Present Future]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

[Past Present Future]

Hey PPF and Firebringer!

I'm not sure if either of you noticed, but three pages ago, on Page 338, there was a discussion about trying to get a thread consensus on PoE for both scumteams. The idea was that if anyone had some evidence that they felt was particularly strong removing someone from contention as either scumteam, they could present it, and if the thread at large agreed, we could agree to 'remove' them from that scumteam's PoE. It felt like a good way of making sure we didn't have to repeat the same points over and over again ad nauseum, so we'd all be on the same page about who we're looking for as potential scum.

T-Bone and CSF engaged with this really well! They seem to agree with me that T-Bone, CSF, and Magician can't be Solar scum. But I'm particularly interested in hearing your two thoughts on the matter.

The posts discussing this are on

Page 338

. I'd appreciate if you read that whole page and processed/understood it. But if you really would prefer, I could reiterate the exact posts and reasons why I think none of CSF/T-Bone/Magician can be Solar scum.

Giving your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. If you can do this, I think we'll be well on our way to narrowing down exactly who Solar scum are. We can then do something similar with the Lunar scumteam and hopefully get some good info there too.

HEY I was pretty sure I answered you yesterday and was trying to find that post. I think it makes sense yes but why aren’t you also making arguments about who you think can’t be Lunar, when I’ve asked you about that like a gazillion times already?

[Past Present Future]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.

Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.

[Past Present Future]

Because Scarf's read on DDS just evaporated? I hadn't considered that possibility. But for them to be scum together, Scarf was bussing his buddy and risked losing a buddy and getting his faction vanilla-ized

Right but that's what I'm saying. Why are you making the argument that the read just evaporated? What's the purpose?

Because my original point from the previous days - "Scarf really believed and pushed DDS scum, and therefore cannot be Lunar" - takes a hit

Well so remember that the Lunar team knew that if DDS was flipped on Day 1, they would be vanillaized.

Yeah but Dangle was never in serious danger, same with Math. Not on d1 anyway.

[Past Present Future]

It would be extremely helpful to me if you’d link 388 rather than just reference the number. I’m also frustrated with you because I strongly believe Fire can’t be lunar and you pretty much just dismissed that. So if you’re go to ignore what I consider to be an extremely valid take, then I don’t understand why you even care what my opinion is.

So I agree with you that if Fire is scum it is likely not Lunar.

I am also curious about whether you agree or disagree on the following. I think that would help.

- CSF not being Solar
- T-Bone not being Solar
- Magician not being Solar

I definitely think CSF can’t be Solar after RR flip.
I think it not very likely you’re Solar since it would be highly unusual for you to have received fake burn message as a buddy. Magician maybe? I need to hear a lot more from them since they really haven’t done alot since replace in. Basically I like yours and CSF’s posting in general and that’s obviously influencing my opinions.

I specifically made mention of STD/FA interactions because I viewed that as extremely obvious.

[Past Present Future]

HEY I was pretty sure I answered you yesterday and was trying to find that post. I think it makes sense yes but why aren’t you also making arguments about who you think can’t be Lunar, when I’ve asked you about that like a gazillion times already?

Okay. So to be very, explicitly clear: you think CSF, T-Bone, and Magician do not make sense as Solar, based on what was discussed there? It's important to me that this is explicit because it shows clearly in the thread that you've put thought towards the subject, and it makes it a lot harder for scum to backpedal on it later on. That's why I'm harping on about it so much.

I have started with the reads that seem very simple and intuitive to me in a way that I'd expect most of the thread to agree with. It just so happens that the simple reads seem to be the Solar reads.

But also, I have already argued that CSF can't be Lunar. I'm interested in talking Lunar as well. But one step at a time.

I appreciate this because attitude just makes me want to not respond.

[Past Present Future]

Nancy, I think the reason people aren't doing the same PoE for Lunar is because there isn't much conclusive evidence to cross people off as Not Lunar entirely. Ydrasse barely has any interactions, and MMR got yeeted kind of early.

I think the points made for Scarf not being Lunar are pretty strong though,

including them not seeking credit for the MMR lim

I hard sr Scarf, thought Junko was really townie but that read fell off because Magician really isn’t doing too much, so I just want to see them do something.

Where is that post?

[Past Present Future]

*sigh* you're both going to make this really difficult because of course you are

Thanks, that was really super helpful.

With the amount of shit you have given me the entire game for daring to do such things as disagree with your thoughts or be unsure of my read on you, I have officially run out of patience for what feels like you intentionally avoiding to try to solve this game.

Well, good for you then, I think I’ll just stick to dealing with T-Bone and CSF then. I’m also fine dealing with Klick.

This was Klick.

I want to solve this game. Demonstrate that you do as well.

I have. Demonstrate that you aren’t ignoring my points. T-Bone addressed them.

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone and @CSF, I promise to take a detailed look at it later but I’m getting so extremely frustrated with Dangle, I can’t do it now. I think. it’s very distracting and confusing to me how they’re going about it, so what I will do is to just read yours and CSF’s post and skip Dangle’s because their posts are actually interfering with my dyslexic ability to process all of that.

[Past Present Future]

Basically when I read either of yours, I think I’m sort of starting to get it, then Dangle makes a post and whatever I was starting to understand just gets hi jacked.

I’m honestly not making excuses or trying to be difficult but their posts are actively interfering with my ability to understand the arguments, let alone logically analyze them.

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone and @CSF, I promise to take a detailed look at it later but I’m getting so extremely frustrated with Dangle, I can’t do it now. I think. it’s very distracting and confusing to me how they’re going about it, so what I will do is to just read yours and CSF’s post and skip Dangle’s because their posts are actually interfering with my dyslexic ability to process all of that.

Just step away no big deal.

Yeah thanks, I really need to do that. I don’t think they even realize what I’m talking about here. I’m not meaning to imply it’s deliberate on their part, just that it’s making it a lot more difficult and I wish they would just stop.

[Past Present Future]

I’ve seen the arguments but I’m going to go with my own solve. I think CSF’s likely town both by role and play. T-Bone doesn’t see informed so if scum here than kudos, you’d totally deserve it. Magician? idk, he hasn’t really done that much since replacing in.

[Past Present Future]

Can you really afford to policy execute a villager at this time in the proceedings? At F7 with two scumteams alive?

DDS is probably Town; putting in high effort, demonstrates early hydra dissonance which is villagery due to suggesting each head having legitimate different reads over fabricating reads; puts in each reeval to suggest uncertainty which suggests uninformed, none of this is news to any of you.


The start of PPF’s ISO feels slower, almost like they don’t want attention drawn to their slot. They’re defensive around #221, and they ask others a lot of questions which draws attention elsewhere, without expressing themselves early on. It’s kinda odd for a high-poster.

Enchant just feels villagery, that’s my viberead.

I couldn’t really reach any conclusions after reading Firebringer’s ISO, because I’m missing out on a lot of context. My bad.

T-Bone felt kinda hedgy during realtime to me? I don’t know about that.

Which post is 221? Why no comment about my FA/STD read? I don’t understand why you made no mention of that?

[Past Present Future]

I don't read Magician as scummy removed from the context of Scarf/Junko. They're not like the beacon of towniness, but their perspective feels plausible to me coming from town.

Yeah but problem is at this point in the game, that could pretty much be said for almost everyone, couldn’t it?

I’m interested in the difference of opinion between you and T-Bone wrt Magician.

But based on all of the reads I’ve seen, nothing has persuaded me I’m wrong on Fire not being lunar and you not seeing that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in the rest of your reads.

[Past Present Future]

I couldn’t really reach any conclusions after reading Firebringer’s ISO, because I’m missing out on a lot of context. My bad.

Have you read all of the posts since you replaced in? It might be easier engaging in real time.

Killing someone because they’re quiet instead of killing someone for being suspicious is a textbook policy execution.

It's not a policy lim, it's more of a lack of solving energy.

What do you make of the difference between Dangle and T-Bone wrt Magician?

[Past Present Future]

But based on all of the reads I’ve seen, nothing has persuaded me I’m wrong on Fire not being lunar and you not seeing that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in the rest of your reads.

You will not shut up about this and it's making me want to talk about that read exponentially less.

You’re right I won’t because I think it’s important and don’t know why you don’t.

[Past Present Future]

I will say this one more time:

I do not feel confident in my read of the Frozen Angel/Save The Dragons interactions.

I don't feel confident, because I have already read STD as town based on those interactions, and been wrong.

So when you repeatedly ask questions about the FA/STD interactions...

My answer is, 'I don't know!'

But I have already said that.

There are things I think I CAN solve accurately.

The FA/STD interactions is not one of them.

Please, stop pestering me about them.

You’re clearly not getting it. I unlike you do feel confident and that’s what I’m trying to get through to you and everyone else. It’s beyond obvious to me, so maybe I shouldn’t get so annoyed when others aren’t seeing to me what’s clearly obvious to me but it’s really hard just to keep quiet about that when I’m so confident in that read.

[Past Present Future]

Their difference of opinion stems from the fact that T-Bone is still trying to hunt Lunar, while DDS thinks FB is Lunar.

If you're asking me who I think is right, I still think FB is more likely Solar, so T-Bone.

If you're asking me who I think is scum instead of who is right, if I were in 3p with DDS and T-Bone, I'd vote T-Bone.

I was asking more about their Magcian takes but this is also helpful.

[Past Present Future]

Step away from FB Lunar for a sec, PPF. Who do you think is Solar?

Not me, not Dangle obviously, not you. Don’t think it’s T-Bone. Could be Fire, Enchant, Magcian maybe?

[Past Present Future]

@CSF, who do you think from most likely to least likely could be lunar?

[Past Present Future]

You’re clearly not getting it. I unlike you do feel confident and that’s what I’m trying to get through to you and everyone else. It’s beyond obvious to me, so maybe I shouldn’t get so annoyed when others aren’t seeing to me what’s clearly obvious to me but it’s really hard just to keep quiet about that when I’m so confident in that read.

I struggle to stay engaged in the meat of the conversation with you when you think something is obvious, because it feels like you just keep shouting that it's beyond obvious and that I must be intentionally not seeing it or I'm scum for not seeing it. When what would actually help me see your perspective is having a very logical conversation with you about why you think something is obvious. But you lose your patience in that conversation... and so we don't get anywhere.

And I don't know how to resolve that.

That’s fair. Well my Ydrasse mistake was misreading MMR’s hard STD defence as a likely wk of STD but after Ydrasse flip, it looks a lot more like a chainsaw from MMR. It didn’t look like scum theatre or like STD and FA were lunar scum butting heads. I thought that the only way Fire could be lunar is if Ydrasse flipped either town or Solar. Both FA/STD interactions plus MMR’s reaction to those interactions spew Fire as not lunar. So it’s not just FA/STD interactions, it’s also MMR subsequently jumping on FA for pushing STD. You have two flipped lunars jumping on FA as a direct result of her STD push, That totally doesn’t look like Fire could ever be either an Ydrasse or an MMR buddy. Hence, Fire can only be town or Solar but not Lunar.

[Past Present Future]

if i cared enough about this game i might actually try to figure out if anyone in this back in forth discussion on me is scum trying to push me for lim. But i really don't.

Im good with going, i am not going to obvtown and this is just going to continue on and on and like im not going to suddenly become obvtown to people in this game.

as much as everyone says otherwise not possible, my gut and mind go to Dingle is solar.
As far as lunar, idk my worry i guess is T-bone but that is just paranoia speaking.

PPF is the most neutral of players to me in that i kind of just been assuming town so i don't have to think about it.
Enchant is town for last 2 days also i doubt would be recruited.
CSF is town, i kind of linked her alignment to Meuh so like pretty conf there. Like don't see why meuh isn't scum if CSF was. Doesn't make sense to me.
Magician was junko who was strong town. Only possibility of scum is conversion in like last day or two. I put it at as low of odds as CSF.

Dangle can’t be Solar, they’re mod confirmed not to be.

[Past Present Future]

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

Dangle, some reason your ignoring this?

Why are MMR pushing Mastina if their claim is anything other than made up horseshit?

[Past Present Future]

Then there’s the interactions with Yume that also proved they lied. Mastina a mech expert debunked it in 3 detailed posts which if people were really not being lazy would actually be looking up and deconstructing.

I’m town and I know MMR lied because they somehow found out about my role and realized they needed to miselim me because it would be to their disadvantage to nk me.

Mastina hypothesized that we were bathed in light which wzs wrong but really not that extremely far off. We also know Prof got that role and he obviously had to have understood more than anyone and he voted for Dangle not me, which is probably what I should have been doing, because their whole I helped our buddy with their bs botched claim never really sat too well with me but I unfortunately expected Prof to flip scum.

VOTE: Dangle

[Past Present Future]

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

Dangle, some reason your ignoring this?

Why are MMR pushing Mastina if their claim is anything other than made up horseshit?

Is there some reason you're ignoring the response I have given to this every other time you've brought it up?

I hadn’t taken into account previously that Prof voted for you and the very of him getting MMR role considering he’s pretty damned good at mech ought to say something. He knew their role and he still voted you, so if there was any basis to MMR claim - which I obviously know there isn’t - why wouldn’t he have voted us?

[Past Present Future]

Why are you completely ignoring what I just posted? You had previously argued that MMR didn’t know their role or something because allegedly scum!Prof couldn’t help them - clearly implying that you consider Prof to be really good at mech - yet he voted you and not us. So you please explain to me why this player, proficient in mech, did that?

[Past Present Future]

I'm not going to engage further with you on this topic; instead, I'm going to promote other responses to this question:

Okay question for everyone but PPF.

Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?

Gut no, brain, no role pm, also hell no.


And oh this wasn’t meant for me? Tough fucking shit! I’m not going to just not say anything when I think you’re likely last lunar trying to kill me so you get to act both noon and nights.

[Past Present Future]

If we die tonight, it means that phase switches to dusk and you can probably win the game by getting us miselimed today,

[Past Present Future]

If we die tonight, phase switches to dusk which is what scum needs to mislim the rest of the town and win this.

[Past Present Future]

I apologize for my outburst. I understand that people need to look at every player who’s left but it’s just really pisses me off that lying scum’s bs botched fake claim continues to be brought up when I strongly suspect that not everyone pushing it is town here.

If anyone has actual issues with my play, I’ll be more than happy to respond to and allay any concerns about me being scum here. I’m not.

And I really do suspect Dangle because Prof who got MMR role voted for them and they’re the ones who keep pushing MMR lies as valid and I just really want to scream.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

And why no kills on dusk unless lunars have delayed kills like CSF proposed?

And my point is obviously that Prof would have been voting us if MMR claim wasn’t complete bs, so why are they voting you?

[Past Present Future]

If we die tonight, phase switches to dusk which is what scum needs to mislim the rest of the town and win this.

Why's that?

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Prof apparently knows that Lunar must have factional kills, yet so far we haven’t seen any except during the noon phase, so that has to mean that Lunar has delayed kills.

If they do not, then how does what Prof said make an iota of sense otherwise?

[Past Present Future]

I'm not going to engage further with you on this topic; instead, I'm going to promote other responses to this question:

Okay question for everyone but PPF.

Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?

Okay question for everyone but PPF.

Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?

Bumping this onto current page

Please keep spamming this when I just thoroughly anihilated it into the stratosphere.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

And why no kills on dusk unless lunars have delayed kills like CSF proposed?

And my point is obviously that Prof would have been voting us if MMR claim wasn’t complete bs, so why are they voting you?

If we die tonight, phase switches to dusk which is what scum needs to mislim the rest of the town and win this.

Why's that?

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Prof apparently knows that Lunar must have factional kills, yet so far we haven’t seen any except during the noon phase, so that has to mean that Lunar has delayed kills.

If they do not, then how does what Prof said make an iota of sense otherwise?

@Dangle

I can spam too especially when it clearly looks like your avoiding my questions.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Again, Prof apparently knew his role was useless because Lunar had a factional kill, which proves MMR lied about their claim, which for some strange reason Dangle is suspiciously ignoring.

And if Lunar has a factional kill, that can only mean that they only show up during the noon phase, so that likely explains why only kills ar noon.

Someone please weigh in on this because I really think I’m on to something here. And I think Dangle just fucked up by quoting that post and is now trying to deflect with the claim that post from Prof just nuked into the stratosphere. lol

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

And why no kills on dusk unless lunars have delayed kills like CSF proposed?

And my point is obviously that Prof would have been voting us if MMR claim wasn’t complete bs, so why are they voting you?

If we die tonight, phase switches to dusk which is what scum needs to mislim the rest of the town and win this.

Why's that?

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Prof apparently knows that Lunar must have factional kills, yet so far we haven’t seen any except during the noon phase, so that has to mean that Lunar has delayed kills.

If they do not, then how does what Prof said make an iota of sense otherwise?

@Dangle

I can spam too especially when it clearly looks like your avoiding my questions.

*crickets*

[Past Present Future]

Bella wanted to refresh her own grasp of the MMR claim situation, so we took some time to look again properly at it.

VOTE: Past Present Future

We both feel rather confident upon discussing it together that

what MMR had was a 'vanilla' result on PPF from their passive ability

, which would mean that

PPF is lying about their role

.

Case for this coming up. I'd appreciate some eyes on this.

I’m okay with dying as long as you follow me.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had

but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

Again, Prof apparently knew his role was useless because Lunar had a factional kill, which proves MMR lied about their claim, which for some strange reason Dangle is suspiciously ignoring.

And if Lunar has a factional kill, that can only mean that they only show up during the noon phase, so that likely explains why only kills ar noon.

Someone please weigh in on this because I really think I’m on to something here. And I think Dangle just fucked up by quoting that post and is now trying to deflect with the claim that post from Prof just nuked into the stratosphere. lol

Extremely suspicious how Dangle just completely ignored this.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle can’t possibly be town here and completely ignore both how Prof demonstrated the claim to be bs and then when I point out that his inheriting MMR role means that Lunar must have a factional nk, Dangle said nada.

The obvious implications are of course that Lunar very likely has delayed kills and Dangle’s trying to rush our miselim so that we won’t have time to have a discussion about that.

If Dangle we’re actually town here, they wouldn’t be ignoring either of those things:

A). Prof clearly knowing that Lunar has a factional kill and with their - according to Dangle no less - has a superior mech ability yet voted Dangle not us. How does Dangle not realize that Prof post clears us makes absolutely no sense if they’re town but what’s truly damning as I see it, is that

Prof clealy KNOWS from inheriting MMR role that Lunar in fact has a factional nk ,
which can only mean they’re delayed and can only kill at noon

Something Dangle has 0 interest in even discussing and I want to know why that is and my vote on them isn’t fucking moving until they actually respond to this.

I think their clear refusal to do this is highly scum indicative.

[Past Present Future]

Bella wanted to refresh her own grasp of the MMR claim situation, so we took some time to look again properly at it.

VOTE: Past Present Future

We both feel rather confident upon discussing it together that

what MMR had was a 'vanilla' result on PPF from their passive ability

, which would mean that

PPF is lying about their role

.

Case for this coming up. I'd appreciate some eyes on this.

But "They saw PPF as Beloved Princess" is kinda possible case too?

Did PPF claim BEFORE MMR? Wait i really don't remember.

No but I crumbed my role since dawn 1 and subsequently. Most were videos about either my flavour or role,

I think MMR was informed about my role existing and rolefished me. They clearly never checked me but were probably actually telling the truth about the informed part.

Dangle is throwing whatever ever they can at the wall to make this stick but we know Prof was USB and got their role. So why did he vote Dangle and not us? Surely if there’s any truth whatsoever to MMR claim a proficuent mech player like Prof would have been voting us not Dangle. And Dangle said it themselves when they pushed Prof as much. Dangle clearly thinks Prof is good at mech but Prof didn’t vote us, he voted Dangle.

[Past Present Future]

You do not control what I respond to, Nancy.

If you’re actually town here, I want a response to what I said about Prof. You completely ignoring that is antitown to the extreme.

[Past Present Future]

Both Titus and I knew that Math was going to 100% vig us,

and yet

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

In fact this should apply whether you think the result is real or not

Boom!

That first quote wasn’t supposed to be there btw.

[Past Present Future]

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

In fact this should apply whether you think the result is real or not

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help

.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

I was right, Prof did find out through acquiring MMR role that it was bs and even more importantly:


LUNAR Has A FACTIONAL KILLING ABILITY, when based on what we’ve seen so far can only really mke sense with delayed kills.[/b]


w

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

There is absolutely no logical reason for Prof not to be voting us if MMR’s claim was real, NONE!

[Past Present Future]

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

In fact this should apply whether you think the result is real or not

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help

.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

I was right, Prof did find out through acquiring MMR role that it was bs and even more importantly:


LUNAR Has A FACTIONAL KILLING ABILITY, when based on what we’ve seen so far can only really mke sense with delayed kills.[/b]


w

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

There is absolutely no logical reason for Prof not to be voting us if MMR’s claim was real, NONE!

What doesn’t make any sense is you ignoring this.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle’s definitely flipping scum here, I bet the game on it.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle has still made no comment on 8222 yet. So why does town!Dangle not care that Prof found out that Lunar has a factional kill?

And why are they not looking at the fact that kills only happened at noon despite that?

Dangle has a very high opinion of Prof’s mech knowledge but yet cannnot explain why he voted them and not me.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle’s definitely flipping scum here, I bet the game on it.

If they were town, they would not be ignoring 8624. There’s 0 reason to do that if they’re town.

[Past Present Future]

I made the obvious case that Fire cannot be lunar with both STD and then MMR jumping on them, they kept refusing to engage with it and instead tried to get me to shut up about it by suggesting I was somehow annoying them with this.

Dangle seems desperate to push anyone who can’t possibly be lunar: First Fire, then me, so why? Why aren’t they interested in finding out who’s lunar?

[Past Present Future]

@ Past Present Future:

I'm not responding to your 20+ posts about professotic because they're ridiculous and professotic getting MMR's role tells no one anything about anyone's alignment. If there's a single person in this thread other than you who wants me to respond to any points you've made, then they can ask me themselves and I'm happy to respond.

I will not be responding to any more posts you make. You are now aware of this. Continuing to try to engage with me is only going to make the thread harder for everyone else to read. Goodbye.

No you don’t, we both know I made some extremely valid points and you’re not AtEing me in shutting up about it.

[Past Present Future]

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

In fact this should apply whether you think the result is real or not

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help

.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

I was right, Prof did find out through acquiring MMR role that it was bs and even more importantly:


LUNAR Has A FACTIONAL KILLING ABILITY, when based on what we’ve seen so far can only really mke sense with delayed kills.[/b]


w

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

There is absolutely no logical reason for Prof not to be voting us if MMR’s claim was real, NONE!

What doesn’t make any sense is you ignoring this.

Only way you’re going to get me to shut up @Dangle is if you actually stop ignoring this. Until then you’re my #1 guess for an MMR buddy and you trying to ram through a miselim on me despite what Prof posted, has lit a ginormous fire under me, so don’t you dare put that onto me, just don’t.

[Past Present Future]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.

Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.

Yes town fighting an obvious shitpush is so troubling for you. *plays the world’s tiniest violin*.

[Past Present Future]

You seriously just expect me to let you drive what I’ve proven by Prof’s post to be an obvious miselim driving you nuts?

Are you seriously that ludicrouslly tunneled that you honestly don’t care that my two posts proved the claim to be bs?

Or is it more that you fear my role and want me dead today despite caring if it hurts town or not.

[Past Present Future]

Who’s lunar @Dangle and don’t insult my intelligence by saying it’s fire when I already demonstrated who totally ludicrous that is.

Sorry for being so aggro and nothing personal Dangle but you’re either tunnelled beyond reason and am too tilted to care or I’m actually right and it is you.

Because Prof clearly stated that Lunar has a factional nk but there’s only been nks during noon, so why aren’t you at all interested in discussing this?

Do you not consider this important?

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

This is so incredibly important, that I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone town would be ignoring this.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

This is so incredibly important, that I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone town would be ignoring this.

Can anyone please comment on this? I honestly don’t know how I missed it but it could possibly explain why no kills during nights despite according to Prof, proof positive Lunar has a factional killing ability.

[Past Present Future]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.

Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.

I wouldn’t be “driving you up a fucking wall” if you’re both town and willing to listen to reason because I can’t understand why you won’t if I’m worng.

At any rate It’s a 100% not my intention to upset anyone. I just know that I’m not Solar and that Prof’s info could potentially break the game wide open it really really upsets me how you continue to dismiss every single valid point I make. If I’m wrong on you. then why are you doing that? I just don’t get it.

[Past Present Future]

I am a town beloved princess and that will be proven after I flip, so no not fake anything.

I’m focused on finding both. @Fire I think you’re either town or Solar because interactions with FA and STD and MMR pretty much like 99.9999% spew you not lunar.

@T-Bone all I recall Prof saying was that he inherited MMR role but couldn’t use it due to lunars having a factional kill and Dangle’s driving me to drink by refusing to engage in that.

If Lunars have a factional kill why nothing happening at night unless they’re delayed? And unlike lying scum!MMR who wanted to have Mastina vigged over us, we actually know that TOWN!Prof has no reason to lie about the information they received after getting their role.

Dangle has said which I quoted that they consider Prof good at mech and he has MMR role, so if MMR claim wasn’t complete horseshit why were they voting Dangle and not us?

Prof by sheer virtue of having inherited MMR role would know more than anyone if it was legit, so to serve think their claim was anything other than bs, you’d seriously have to think Prof was gamethrowing by not voting us.

[Past Present Future]

I would't. Because it's Loyal Neapolitan. So assuming i am Evil, it can't get result from me regardless if i am PR or not. So i NEED to accuse them of lying.

Nancy is not really mech sawwy though. I think "Priestess" comed after PPF got pressured for flavor name.


Still regardless of how i am hostile to PPF, i think Lunar is priority.

No not true, I had previously crumbed it, remember?

[Past Present Future]

I would't. Because it's Loyal Neapolitan. So assuming i am Evil, it can't get result from me regardless if i am PR or not. So i NEED to accuse them of lying.

Nancy is not really mech sawwy though. I think "Priestess" comed after PPF got pressured for flavor name.


Still regardless of how i am hostile to PPF, i think Lunar is priority.

No not true, I had previously crumbed it, remember?

I don't remember anything lol

Not irony

It was either this video or one similar. I know it’s there because I made a detailed list of my crumbs but with 1000+ posts, it’s extremely difficult to find anything but it’s 100% there,

[Past Present Future]

It remains that in the world where MMR flips lunar, PPF is still solar. If you disagree with this, you have to clearly explain a world in which it makes sense for lunar scum to sacrifice their rolecop, IN MULTIBALL, to kill a single town power role. Because if the vote went through yesterday on PPF, and PPF flipped IC bulletproof cop, MMR gets their head removed by mathblade and/or the solar kill and/or the dusk 2 vote.

You can seriously stop rolefishing. We’ll claim when and if when we feel like it and not a moment sooner.

See I pretty much crumbed the flavour here but I couldn’t find any youtube videos with priestess so I thought angel fit really well.

Whew, finally found it, so I was close.

[Past Present Future]

Ok. I am way behind on this game but Nancy asked me to explain the apple thing again.

Yume thought we were crumbing neighborizer targeting them. We weren't. Apple was the code.

I don't know why she thought that.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

How do you know this?

It's been our code since Suidoken (spelling) mafia.

~Titus

[Past Present Future]

You don't have the guts.

This is the kind of post I love to make as scum - it looks like scum has no motivation to make it. But town also has no motivation to make it. It's just designed to confuse

This post is kind of strange with a vt claim. Idk why someone says that if they know the other poster has no meta on them when they haven’t hardly done anything?

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone, can you link/quote those posts for me?

[Past Present Future]

@T-Bone, can you link/quote those posts for me?

Can anyone?

[Past Present Future]

I’m extremely shocked that Fire flipped Lunar. MMR, STD and FA did a positively brilliant job of handling associatives.

[Past Present Future]

I mean if the game is going after today then sure. I think the last Solar is basically confirmed now in light of Firebringer's flip.

I was surprised he flipped Lunar. I thought I'd he did flip it would have been solar.

I think the content of his role is very interesting, in that it's a role that manipulates what phase we are in.

It looks like a natural counterpart to the role PPF has claimed.

The one thing I want to recheck is the design of Porkens and MMR's roles before I 100% commit.

Yeah, I think it’s extremely unlikely there’s only two solars. Fire having a comparable role to me is wild.

[Past Present Future]

Shit I think you're right, Enchant. Which means DDS is not clear either.

We don’t know how many scum are left. I’m think one more solar but Enchant could possibly be right I suppose?

[Past Present Future]

Cat Scratch Fever has died. Their role was

Spoiler:

Town Guardian

Spoiler: Role PM

Town Guardian

During the night phase, you may choose to give a player a shield. Players with a shield are protected from 1 negative effect or kill (besides elimination). If a shield protects a player, you will be informed it was broken.
Shields automatically break at the start of the next night phase.

You win when at least one player is alive, and all living players are aligned with the town.

Dusk 5 Begins

VC 9.0.0

Not Voting (5) Magician, T-Bone, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Past Present Future, Enchant,

With 5 alive it takes 3 to eliminate.
Deadline (expired on 2023-01-20 12:46:29)

Wtf? Actually I think Enchant could be right. Otherwise it wouldn’t be dusk right?

[Past Present Future]

I'm not saying I want to atm

But what is the implication if we flip you now, Nancy? What happens to the game with your claimed princess role?

It skips to alternative night I believe, so we hit noon again.

[Past Present Future]

No it would be, FB declined to change the phase we were in.

Yeah so why did you think he did that? I thought initially another solar made the most sense but Fire not changing time to night, makes me think Enchant could be right. Maybe Lunar has delayed kills. That also fits with what Prof thought as well.

[Past Present Future]

FB likely chose to get another use of a factional ability

I suppose that’s also possible.

[Past Present Future]

On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1

On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense

I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless

Well you were clearly right on Fire but I thought he didn’t make any sense as lunar. In fact I thought FA had been really townie but Mastina I guess is a genius, since she correctly said that this was FA’s scum meta we were seeing. I feel really dumb now being pocketed by both Fire and Ydrasse. But I’m usually really good at correctly parsing associative tells but I was totally fooled this time.

[Past Present Future]

On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1

On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense

I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless

Why are you assuming then there’s another solar? I assumed that too but I now have doubts after Fire’s flip. T-Bone thinks lunar did something with factionals, so maybe the delayed kill theory fits that?

[Past Present Future]

Btw, which head is posting now, Klick or Bella?

[Past Present Future]

Oops quote

I don't think Lunar conversion is likely

What do you think their factional ability is if not delayed kills?

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3.

Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I think you’re wrong about that @Dangle, How do you account for the bolded then if Lunar doesn’t have delayed kills?

[Past Present Future]

Based on Lunar's roles the only flipped Lunar that makes sense as someone who was converted is Ydrasse. And I would consider Ydrasse a very unlikely choice for conversion target.

If we've eliminated all of the original Lunar scum and are going to lose to recruit T-Bone and his fifth recruited member of the scumteam, then I'm kinda fine with that also you should pick us to randomly be a winner please.

I’m sorry, I’m totally not following this.

I thought MMR had targeted me but now I’m less sure but I’m going to assume Lunar knew that like Mastina I had the town version of Fire’s role, which is why both were hard pocketing me.

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3.

Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I think you’re wrong about that @Dangle, How do you account for the bolded then if Lunar doesn’t have delayed kills?

@Dangle what really frustrates me to no end that you’re clearly ignoring evidence here of a delayed lunar kill. CSF said her shield was hit not once but twice and she firmly believed it wasn’t indicative of a strongman existing, so how you can insist delayed kills are impossible here, I totally do not understand.

[Past Present Future]

If it's 4-1 then we can't let PPF get to 3p it's bad tactically. If it's 3-1-1 then it's better to let them get their to thwart solar but that gives Lunar the win.

I think tactically because we question whether PPF is solar or not...they might be the best move because of PPF is town then we skip night phase. Of course that leaves 4p Kingmaker if it's 3-1-1 right now. I almost want to say fuck it, if the game is still 3-1-1 somehow I'm not sure what we do to get out of it.

But I think either getting PPF because they are solar or triggering beloved princess to skip night is our best play. Whatever is left among us town doesn't need night phases anymore.

I think it skips to noon so I don’t see how that’s the best play?

[Past Present Future]

If we're worried we're losing to some janky Night shenanigans then I'm fine aiming for Solar proper today though

In which case I do think PPF is the most likely last Solar

I don’t see how you still that’s possible after fire flip? Our role is real and it will skip to noon, so I don’t understand how you’re not taking that into account?

[Past Present Future]

If we're worried we're losing to some janky Night shenanigans then I'm fine aiming for Solar proper today though

In which case I do think PPF is the most likely last Solar

I don’t see how you still that’s possible after fire flip? Our role is real and it will skip to noon, so I don’t understand how you’re not taking that into account?

Do you agree that voting you tomorrow is optimal?

I can understand why yes. I will say that if game is still on tomorrow, it won’t be ending with our flip, so I guess I’m thankful I won’t be having to be dealing with any of that.

[Past Present Future]

I am clear by both my role and because of whatever happened noon 1, Math didn’t die. Scum!Titus 100% always kills Math on d1 here, especially with a vig.

I know it’s not me so I’m fine with voting out anyone today but you and T-Bone.