i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: titus
greetings

btw I like andree already, it seems town

[Gamma Emerald]

Everything is derivative

[Gamma Emerald]

I agree w tris that Ythan’s 62 feels town, and I do have the ability to explain if desired

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it

[Gamma Emerald]

You just dropped your reads like less than 1 page later. It shows that you didn't really believe in those reads

I doubt you did that in LOST

I think that's a really negative way to frame that. I can't expect all of my page 3 reads to be correct and I updated my reads on tris and lycan after interacting with them for the first time. I also think updating my reads shows I'm thinking about the game or whatever. I feel like you've been onboard with this line of thinking when I've played with town!csf so I'm seriously considering whether you are scum peddling some early BS.

What made you reconsider lycanfire?

Here

i expect great things from you

I thought this was an underreaction to being accused early if lycan is scum

how important is it for you to color slots, tris?

It's more of a question of playstyle or values, I guess.

How compelled do you feel to attribute town feeling and scum feeling to a slot. Do you do this for every slot? Just some?

I thought doubling down on the questioning here was townie

Gonna take this opportunity to mention:
I’m probably not gonna do any meta this game, I feel like that has caused me to build up bad juju here

[Gamma Emerald]

Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Frogsterking
I think he’s scum here because his early “meta TR” evaporated fast after I defended Ythan, and I didn’t really notice any attempt to debate with me, so it seems clear his plan is to make anyone he thinks he can’t go toe-to-toe with a target.
There’s another player I have pinned as his partner but I’m keeping that close to the vest for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would it be?

[Gamma Emerald]

I realized the exact reason why this push reeks of bullshit: it’s the same crock of shit Krazy used to pull against me. This sort of “scum!Gamma always reacts this way” comment is one I’m well-acquainted with, and one that imo ensures one of us is scum. So I think today’s vote absolutely SHOULD be between me and Frogsterking. It’s still not wise to vote me out, unless you want a lot of deaths really fast.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would it be?

Because you're biased. Town incorrectly OMGUSes people who scumread them probably more often than any other type of read imo.

In my opinion you haven't shown why scum!Frog votes you, other than because "he thinks he can't go toe-to-toe" with you. Which I think is super fallible reasoning, yeah. I find it suspicious that you think that Frog not trying hard enough to debate with you is sufficient evidence to condemn Frog.

Basically, I think basing a read solely off of the way a slot is reading you is very error prone.

I will admit I think your 146 felt premature as well, so that also colours my view. Premature in the sense that it felt disingenuous -- like it's too early to be getting exasperated enough to drop hints like that, and it seems more likely you'd make a post like that to reduce pressure off of yourself.

Well here’s the thing: the last several town games I’ve had, I’ve been subjected to numerous shitpushes, some of which have caused toxic reactions. So atp it’s kinda vibing that people are willing to fuck around with me until I either lay down and die or blow a fuse. It’s honestly appalling in a sense that I’m being treated this way.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so actually Kitty is calling tris town so I'm a bit confused now. It felt like an odd shade to me but actually reading it with tris as a townread it looks more like Kitty is entertaining an alternative theory here. My bad.

Good stuff! I'm pretty sure KT-you-me-tris are all town

What about CSF, huh?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ehh MT I think you took a step backwards with your vote, I'm pretty sure that KT wasn't intending to shade my slot there and that your random vote on Gamma was actually on scum. KT has opened this way toward my slot as town before:

viewtopic.php?p=13516511#p13516511

Also, the answer to your question toward Gamma is that she isn't trying to sort my slot and the vote was made because we've been in this situation several times before and they just react this way when I call them out as scum.

Gamma is definitely more methodical if I push them on accident when we're both town.

What does this mean

[Gamma Emerald]

I voted GeorgeBailey in 2019 I mean 2022

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

I don’t think I vibe with this btw

[Gamma Emerald]

I think both gamma and frog are town

[Gamma Emerald]

Prove me wrong

rn I’m fine letting flips do that for me

Btw I’m traveling to relatives for Christmas and we’re going thru the boonies rn so don’t expect prompt/frequent response

[Gamma Emerald]

Both of you sucked at convincing me

That's a good sign for your alignment because whenever I catch scum D1 there is always at least one townie who goes "PRETTY MEH CASE IF YOU ASK ME"

PEdit

I think Quiet Owl might be town

Also I haven't posted my case on Gamma yet, so I still have a chance.

Yes, we’re all aware of your grandstanding.

[Gamma Emerald]

frogster y r those votes scummy.

The McMennon vote is basically a naked vote and the Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them. I think voting a player who suspects you and providing some made up reasoning is pretty common level 0 scum play.

I simply must ask: what makes you think I’d be resorting to level zero plays?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Interested in this little out(?). Want to say it feels towny to go "hey investigatives don't waste an action" but that's easily something scum could do too as a bluff, especially when this entire setup is one giant question mark in terms of mechanics. This one will be keeping an eye on you.

Which one do you think it is?

It's fairly meta for town to claim miller immediately, and I think there's a high probability of negative town utility in a big setup like this. I'm erring on the side of trusting at this stage

Hard to say for certain, especially when there's almost certainly neg util like you said. It's more something to keep in mind rn than anything.

idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.

Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

I think I like this post from Erinys.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

Oversimplification. Erinys is more so saying the means of presentation are not enticing.
I back Erinys’ comment here since I have experienced other players doing the sort of thing it accused Froggy off doing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah enjoy rope lol.

From who, you? Ythan, the little 3rd party? You couldn't even give a straight answer to Tweet or tris about why you voted me or how you read Gamma/McMenno. What do you expect to accomplish all alone?

I guess we should invent new jargon "3rd party bravado." The wiki page for "3rd party bravado" will look like this:

3rd Party Bravado

Definition:

Yeah enjoy rope lol.

This feels incredibly hackish
I also think jumping to an accusation of a third party this early feels off

[Gamma Emerald]

I said I was gonna avoid meta but this is just comical
I don’t think Elements has ever voted scum!me, but he frequently scumreads town!me

[Gamma Emerald]

Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

Damn, if only I could vote two players at once.

Feels like a soft.

A soft of what? And why bring it up?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a question:

where is Vaxkiller?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I think it’s a rather stark trend
I’ll admit the scumgame sample size is somewhat low but one of those games was massive and Elements and I did clash at one point, but they never voted me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oversimplification. Erinys is more so saying the means of presentation are not enticing.
I back Erinys’ comment here since I have experienced other players doing the sort of thing it accused Froggy off doing.

Just to make sure I understood this post right - are you saying when people self meta to prove themselves as town, they tend to lie more often than not? If so, I disagree with that conclusion

I said I was gonna avoid meta but this is just comical
I don’t think Elements has ever voted scum!me, but he frequently scumreads town!me

Elements admitted to not having read the game yet, why did you feel the need to say this?

It depends on the player
I tend to be more honest with self-meta than I believe most would be, in part because as I see it, the gap between my scumgame and towngame is at times negligible: I have enough skill to play with some of my cards face up and still come out ahead sometimes.
Ftr the player I speak of as fitting the stated bill is Flavor Leaf. Without fail, whenever I start to catch scum!him, he starts on the same song and dance of “I wouldn’t have played this way as scum, I swear”

[Gamma Emerald]

@tweetie

what is your read on me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Morning Tweet is town. I really like the detailed analysis of Princess's posts and it reminds me of MT's town play in the 8-ball game we were in.
P-edit: though I lean differently in my read on Gamma.

Cat Scratch feels town to me too. I agree with calling out Gamma's comment about Elements in 266.

I think Princess's point that self-meta should be taken with a grain of salt is right, and then a bunch of subsequent posts trying to clarify that point. Feels genuine compared to if Princess was using it to justify a Frog vote rather than downplaying the relevance as in 237.

One caveat about Princess is that Princess has posted just about that stuff lately and not about anything else.

Frog vs Gamma, maybe Cat Scratch is right that they could both be scum. Frog comes across as very conscious of others' perceptions;

Gamma's 'lol' reaction was bad

. I don't think they're both town. But they've been the main show lately so I'm trying to bear that 'recency bias' or whatever it's called in mind and gonna scratch around a bit more to see what else is going on in the background.

This never happened.

[Gamma Emerald]

Frog meta stuff aside, this one is wondering where tapiocaphobe and Vaxkiller are, and where Ranger went.

I like this

Yeah I was wondering if that was supposed to be me lol.

I also felt this might be the case
I think it’s not exactly a good look for imaginality to be swinging that wildly though

[Gamma Emerald]

I think saying “most” of my posts are like that is a mischaracterization of things but whatever, I’ve been poking at other things consistently

Also do you want games where I was scum, town or both that Elements was in?

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633 scumgame
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85416 towngame

Also wdym by topics I should avoid?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I did mention I’ve had a bad spell of getting FoSed early as town which has rattled me substantially
idk which I’d rate higher out of my scumplay or my townplay, I think they’re both solid overall but my scumplay is much more swingy

[Gamma Emerald]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

[Gamma Emerald]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

What makes you choose to sheep Fenrir specifically?

[Gamma Emerald]

One caveat about Princess is that Princess has posted just about that stuff lately and not about anything else.

What stuff is this referring to?

Also, feel free to start scratching around at any time.

[Gamma Emerald]

@owl

what is your impression of Morning Tweet and Lycanfire rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: imaginality

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

@all

Also: I hate every single one of you for townreading Gamma for absolutely shit reasons, and you all deserve to lose (and probably will) for not backing me up.

[Gamma Emerald]

@MOD: Vaxkiller and tapiocaphobe are in prod range

mod edit: I meant to quote this post and hit the edit button instead. original message will be a couple posts down.

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you think she’s been posting?

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you think of Cat Scratch, Titus?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think looking at what she chooses to respond to and how she responds to it is important

[Gamma Emerald]

So what do you feel she's not responding to?

It’s not quite like that
I suggest you ISO her

[Gamma Emerald]

So what do you feel she's not responding to?

It’s not quite like that
I suggest you ISO her

Isn't your whole point that CSF is selectively responding though? How would reading her ISO help?

Also, Frogsterking failed my test. Frogsterking gets a certain level of annoyed when I'm cagey as town and instead, he's looking to discredit.

That’s not what I meant.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I’m gonna clock out for the day, I’m spun up from a present-wrapping fiasco

[Gamma Emerald]

Frog meta stuff aside, this one is wondering where tapiocaphobe and Vaxkiller are, and where Ranger went.

I like this

y?

Good breadth of interest

[Gamma Emerald]

This game feels weird as hell

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I won’t be active much today

[Gamma Emerald]

Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.

tf are you saying here

[Gamma Emerald]

Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.

tf are you saying here

I'm saying StD is 100% wrong and trying. So I'm going to show him he's wrong and get him pointed in the right direction, even if I am not 100% sure where it is myself.

Why do you townread imaginality so hard? I feel like he’s suspicious but I don’t vibe with how the wagon on him formed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmm. I get the message.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Elements

Why this?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: imaginify

I’d rather you vote me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t like the wagon comp in either case but my flip is at least more enlightening

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna feel good about a wagon where people I suspect are frontloaded on it

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna feel good about a wagon where people I suspect are frontloaded on it

Do you think imaginify is town?

At this point, yes. My initial reasoning to suspect them wasn’t ironclad, and the wagon on them happening so fast and in the way it did spooks me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you think scum would all push for the wagon?

Don’t think it’s all scum
More later

[Gamma Emerald]

That makes much more sense

It really doesn’t
I don’t see who aside from Fenrir out of the imaginality votes is UTR

[Gamma Emerald]

I always do lowercase t for under the radar

[Gamma Emerald]

Merry Christmas

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m willing to vote Ranger here.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Ranger

[Gamma Emerald]

WHY is imaginality not town?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t really have good reasons to call imaginify town but I don’t think the reasons for the votes on him are that good either. Lazy/weak play is rather unimpressive as a reason since it feels like they just got off to a bad start that got capitalized on.
Aside from that a main focus is pushing a 1v1 of me vs. Frogsterking. I don’t really have an issue here except with you buying into that while having me all the way down in your reads. I don’t think you should be calling that a problem except if you think either a) me and Frog are both town or b) I would feel bold enough to go toe-to-toe with Frog as scum here and feel like I could come out relatively unscathed. Clearly you don’t believe a), so what about my play so far suggests b) to be true?
Lastly, the “disingenuous paragraph” may overgeneralize the votes but it captures a lot of what I feel like is wrong with the imaginify wagon. And I think the writing feels towny given how imprecise it is: scum would try to ensure clarity in that paragraph imo.

I guess the one thing that does stick out to me is the use of “noncommittal” as a thing people are calling their okay when that was used to refer to furtive iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

@tris

can I get your three strongest townreads and scumreads aorn?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really want to kill imaginality today either way I think

Ranger wagon is maybe? I'm still keeping my vote on frogster

quiet owl is town

keeping a cult in mind for starting tomorrow as well

What does this last sentence mean

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think there might be loved or hated going round with this many players?

Possibly. Frogsterking still didn't give the tonal read when he suspected I was town supposedly. Frogsterking is scum. Scum with Ranger. I have 75% odds on that.

Idk how much of the game you read when you joined but I think frog feels substantially different this game than he did in the normal you replaced in as scum with frog

Every single time Frog has been town, he has a certain level of frustration he gets with me everytime trying to sort me. He hasn't displayed an ounce of it. Instead, he's adapting his read to the environment on the board. He hasn't displayed it here.

Frog’s entire strategy this game seems to be slinging mud wherever it’s most suitable
He’s vacillated his reads on several slots, and keeps aiming to return to particular targets. If that’s not agenda driven, I don’t know what is.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think there might be loved or hated going round with this many players?

Possibly. Frogsterking still didn't give the tonal read when he suspected I was town supposedly. Frogsterking is scum. Scum with Ranger. I have 75% odds on that.

Idk how much of the game you read when you joined but I think frog feels substantially different this game than he did in the normal you replaced in as scum with frog

Every single time Frog has been town, he has a certain level of frustration he gets with me everytime trying to sort me. He hasn't displayed an ounce of it. Instead, he's adapting his read to the environment on the board. He hasn't displayed it here.

Frog’s entire strategy this game seems to be slinging mud wherever it’s most suitable
He’s vacillated his reads on several slots, and keeps aiming to return to particular targets. If that’s not agenda driven, I don’t know what is.

That's the exact opposite conclusion to the one I've drawn. He's throwing out reads and theories all over the place which is drawing attention to himself. To me that reads as town running through scenarios trying to find if any fit.

I would believe this if he wasn’t continually circling back to the same few central ideas. When my thought process runs wild, it becomes completely erratic.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: frogsterking
I’m fine to go back here.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: frogsterking
I’m fine to go back here.

UNVOTE:
Scratch this. I need to rethink the treacheries I’ve seen here.

Also, fuck the no-meta plan. I think it weakened me anyway.

[Gamma Emerald]

How the hell do people do meta dives
I’ve never actually put full effort into one, not like what I’ve seen from others.

[Gamma Emerald]

Barring a shake-up in my thought process, I have minimal faith in furtive flipping scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

The more this one thinks about it the less likely it thinks Titus's mason claim is real. Their insistence on things like the PT, knowing imaginality's alignment, etc etc are all convincing, but

a D1 outing of two masons when one had at most 7 out of 12 votes

and has since dropped from that... It's kind of insane, honestly. Really sketched out by this.

Why does this make you doubt her claim?

From personal experience, the bolded is bad logic

[Gamma Emerald]

Barring a shake-up in my thought process, I have minimal faith in furtive flipping scum.

Why? I'd like someone to talk about it.

Assuming Frog flips scum, I think the route he’s taken through the game makes furtive town.

[Gamma Emerald]

:/
What do you make of Frog’s play here vs. as Purple Mask?

[Gamma Emerald]

@tris

can I get your three strongest townreads and scumreads aorn?

gimme a moment to take stock

actually doin it now. off the top of my head

scum: furtive, ythan, quiet owl
town: imagine, titus, gamma

am I on the same level as Titus and imaginify? If so, why?

Also

@elements

why the backtrack on kitten?

[Gamma Emerald]

:/
What do you make of Frog’s play here vs. as Purple Mask?

That's my whole point with him here. He originally claimed to think my mason claim was town. He thought I was dumb town in Masque. He had a frustrated tone. Here, he argued two town cores going after each other which should be immensely frustrating. Yet, when I posted my reads and called out his townblock theory, he turned on a dime. So I'd like to talk about those. This argument is getting circular and nowhere. No one is saying anything new.

One thing that confounds and frustrates me is his treatment of me. You saw me explode as Green in that game, but it feels like Frog is trying to evoke a similar reaction. That leans scum to me but I could see it as some twisted “draw out an emotional core breach for a read”, but either way it makes me unwilling to engage Frog when my main instinct is that he’s trying to make me get toxic.

[Gamma Emerald]

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Mcmenno is probably town from this post

why

[Gamma Emerald]

Also

@elements

why the backtrack on kitten?

when i first read through kitten's iso it all seemed nice and good and towny but on a revisit I couldn't see anything I don't think scum could easily put out

Okay

[Gamma Emerald]

:/
What do you make of Frog’s play here vs. as Purple Mask?

That's my whole point with him here. He originally claimed to think my mason claim was town. He thought I was dumb town in Masque. He had a frustrated tone. Here, he argued two town cores going after each other which should be immensely frustrating. Yet, when I posted my reads and called out his townblock theory, he turned on a dime. So I'd like to talk about those. This argument is getting circular and nowhere. No one is saying anything new.

One thing that confounds and frustrates me is his treatment of me. You saw me explode as Green in that game, but it feels like Frog is trying to evoke a similar reaction. That leans scum to me but I could see it as some twisted “draw out an emotional core breach for a read”, but either way it makes me unwilling to engage Frog when my main instinct is that he’s trying to make me get toxic.

Fair. If he's trying, he's scared of my reads. Do you agree largely? Disagree? Where?

If he’s trying what?
And I think he is scared of your reads. My current framework suggests Frog and Ranger are scum which would explain the OMGUS-laden shade towards you earlier.

[Gamma Emerald]

Owl I would probably weakly townread if I wasn’t already on DEFCON 1, but because of my heightened state of awareness I feel like he’s playing a very safe game as scum.
Furtive I think has a low chance of being scum, one that puts him outside priority-elim territory.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ftr you can’t nest spoiler= tags

[Gamma Emerald]

And I don’t wholly agree with the stated reads but the thought process by furtive looks real

[Gamma Emerald]

Also

@elements

why the backtrack on kitten?

It's called a pocket attempt Gamma

you think my town read -> null read is a pocket attempt?

Think he was talking about tris

[Gamma Emerald]

I flipped town in Masque and he’s treating me about the same. So that sounds like bogus.

[Gamma Emerald]

What is the interaction Titus is referring to from Masque, then?

[Gamma Emerald]

What is the interaction Titus is referring to from Masque, then?

It's in the quoted 737 but also starting with 669. Specifically, Titus says that Frogster is not expressing enough frustration towards her and is not treating her as if she's dumb Town.

I don't know what you meant when you said Frogs is treating you different than he did Masque - if there is a specific interaction you have in mind, I'll take a look at it. But as MT said, people are not always going to treat others the exact same way. How they choose to respond and react to specific things has a lot to do with how they were already reading the game

I’m saying Frog doesn’t seem to have learned anything from Masque. At worst he’s deliberately trying to push me back into a bad place, at best he’s at fault for deliberate indifference imo. He knows I got in trouble for toxicity and treated me poorly anyway, in ways that go above and beyond “playing the game”.

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don't get the owl scumreads, probably one of my stronger townreads atm.

gamma said a "safe game"? do they usually play more risky?

That’s not based on meta

[Gamma Emerald]

Frogster appeal on activity for some reason make him trustworthy

Why

[Gamma Emerald]

@ythan

who are your top 5 suspects rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Ythan
I don’t really townread her like I did before, in fact she feels similar to one of her scum games rn

[Gamma Emerald]

With 4 pending replacement slots, it's probably going to be a while before we get a new Ythan. Back to this:

VOTE: Quiet Owl

I could be swayed onto furtive, but with my tris read kind of dropping before she replaced out, I'm not sure he is actually scum.

The fuck is this? Can you not vote-hop like a hummingbird that consumed caffeine?

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s actually infuriating that when I decide to give the opposing viewpoint a try, the people holding it buzz off to some other nonsense. I already have enough of that in my irl, don’t fucking do it here.

[Gamma Emerald]

That lasted all of 5 seconds.

[Gamma Emerald]

Can I just point out {Frog, CSF, Ranger} KEEP VOTING TOGETHER?

[Gamma Emerald]

With 4 pending replacement slots, it's probably going to be a while before we get a new Ythan. Back to this:

VOTE: Quiet Owl

I could be swayed onto furtive, but with my tris read kind of dropping before she replaced out, I'm not sure he is actually scum.

I find this thought process wildly incongruous. Atp why not just cut the chaff and stay on Ythan?

[Gamma Emerald]

because a wagon on an empty slot is not going to be useful. There's no info to squeeze out of Ythan because she's not here...

Atp I’m ready to end the damn day, idgaf about squeezing out info

[Gamma Emerald]

Can I just point out {Frog, CSF, Ranger} KEEP VOTING TOGETHER?

Players who townread each other and who share reads with others tend to do that.

I've no issues voting along-side my strongest townreads. Least of all, when I agree with their votes.

My issue is that none of y’all seem to actually give a shit about any specific vote to pull the others back/stay when the others move

[Gamma Emerald]

My issue is that none of y’all seem to actually give a shit about any specific vote to pull the others back/stay when the others move

At the very least I feel a bit better about your post 882 after this.

I think Ythan's a bad vote right now. Who else would you go for?

I do scumread Quiet Owl but atp I’m not voting there on principle
Besides that, I would be down with voting CSF, George, or Menno
furtive and tris are passable votes

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really have a good read right now my strong push was against imagine and it got shot down pretty hard when Titus softed Mason. Everyone seems to tr me so I should probably try to lead more but nothings really caught my eye

Do you feel like the TRs on you make sense?

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to see more from MathBlade before deciding to vote him out. I half-expect him to be blatantly obvious as scum in certain ways.

[Gamma Emerald]

Math pretending to be empathetic toward Titus is a good sign that Math is lying.

*middle finger gif*

yeah that bothers me too
I don't get the same vibes I did in LOST from Math (albeit we were scumbuddies but there was some openwolfing on Math's part there)

[Gamma Emerald]

a part of me thinks that from the sheer number of players Frog has shaded today that the jester speculation might check out

[Gamma Emerald]

pls keep the hyperposting down since most of the folks I might be able to find as replacements have stated concerns about game length

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Frogsterking

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gimli

[Gamma Emerald]

IDK it's been forever since I read, I'm here later to talk to people

I honestly think if you'd actually read you'd know and understand why Frog got voted out
he was all bark and no bite, with a really bad attitude

[Gamma Emerald]

I am sorry I don’t follow your train of logic Prince.

I don’t think Titus is evil here. She’s pretty experienced and the site meta is to crumb masons early.

Titus in general likes being masons but hates finding them as they screw with her reads.

Is there something I am missing here?

I don't think being not-masons necessitates being evil; they could be a lover pair.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why hello everyone! I'm Ultimate-Gamer, Gamma's friend. I subb'd in when she said this game needed people. This is my first game on Mafia Scum and what do ya know it's a bastard game!

I'm a very intuitive player by nature. I'm very bad at making analytical connections, most things like contradictions and inconsistencies that players make will go right over my head unless someone else points it out.

Instead I tend to form my reads based on human behavior. "So and So did x. x tends to be something I typically see in newer scum." that sort of thing.

Am I great at it? Not particularly. I do okay in my own home-site meta, outside of that, especially in games against players who understand much deeper advanced competitive theory, I'm mostly so-so. But i do my best.

Okay! With that out of the way, that was quite a bit to read. I tried to absorb as much as I could but NGL I skimmed a lot and the long break between days didn't help much for the reads that I did have.

Luckily, I took notes on my thoughts as I read through. I skipped to the end where we'd killed Frog so that had already been spoiled for me, but I did NOT look to see who I replaced. Apparently I replaced the most toxic player I've seen in a while. Thank goodness.

I'm not sure if it'll be interesting to anyone but here are my thoughts on the game as I was reading through:

Spoiler: Day1 notes

#38 Tris/Andre: Most likely T/T by

Gamma's first post feels weird already. Not super loving it.

#85 Cat Scratch Fever . Knowing Frogster is scum looks odd.

#95 Backing the heat down after realizing the read didn't gain much traction...

#98 interesting vote from Ranger, doesn't feel random, but doesn't elaborate. Townie move

#136 KittyTacky Not sure about this entrance...

Glad to see people's meta read of gamma is matching my own. Especially from conf-town players.

#146 feels better. Like there's a slightly less chance of scum doing this rather than town.

#152 Cat Scratch looking much better.

People defending Frogerking JUST as the wagon is starting to take off are looking much better.

#196 feels like upset scum.... Though I do feel bad because I get it

#215 Really like Quiet Owl's analysis so far. Very very nice.

#230 Very very unlikely that Quiet Owl is scum

#239 exchange between Erinys and Frog feels very TT

#270 Being catty is literally the best part of mafia the hell you talkin about

#273-274 mmmmmmm not liking this as much... That move onto Frog to spare Gamma feels icky.

The only thing concerning about my scum read on Gamma is that she's not as vocal as I think she'd be. I've played many games with Gamma (she invited me here) both town and scum and scum Gamma is typically more vocal in my personal experience. But I just cannot shake the scum feeling out of my stomach.

#282 "In case anyone is getting burned out trying to read the thread just skip Gamma's posts, they're all intentionally full of shit to waste your time." Hey Manners >:(

#285 Agree with the points in this post here

#300 I don't think Gamma is particularly townie but I cannot say I'm a fan of people being rude to my friend...

#307 oh lol

#322 "i feel like you're flailing around trying not to catch rope you're probably scum." this is a pretty good way of putting it. Kinda puts words to my gut read.

#347 I didn't pick up on it the first time but now that you mention it yeah, Imaginality doesn't look super great here.

#364 The fuck???...... What do you know?

#367 I would LOVE if Ranger would expand on the owl read.

#434 StD and I are gonna get along JUST fine I can already tell

#436 TRUE!!!

#464 okay maybe StD and I aren't friends? I don't really have a read on elements at this point yet.

#572 Yeah I didn't you to have to say it tho... Not a BAD claim I guess.

#594 Hm. Actually if we are to take it as a given that Imagination is town, Gamma's backing off when she did looks pretty good actually...

#717 The most genuine sounding post Gamma's made so far. Really second guessing my read now

#813-815 I love good natured sass but this just feels mean and unkind.

#939 Oh shit! More than one neighborhood? In a game such as this I don't doubt it... But still odd. The timing of the claim could not be more perfect tho. Plus this feels incredibly genuine. The closest to a "town slip" as we're probably gonna see.

#961 Even better. Scum Ranger and Math would be fighting in the mafia den right now, not in public like this. At least not so genuinly. It COULD be theater but it's more likely legitimate

#974 I already know Frog's Alignment and I agree.

#979 Why would you... Vote him out? I was just starting to feel better about you.

#1169 I scrolled to the back to look at who we eliminated, but this is the first time seeing who *I* replaced... Ugh. At least I wasn't scum reading them?

As for today...

Not liking Cat Scratch's and Erinys' Quiet Owl vote. Mostly because I don't agree with it. Quiet Owl felt very townie yesterday... Maybe someone could sell me on it? I really didn't see it.

[quote="In Echoing this post, bolding for emphasis. I found Titus and Imaginality to both be very scummy while reading and I think that Morning Tweet's idea makes a lot of sense here.

I didn't see this on my first read bu ... ]post 1187, Prince of Paterson"]Titus crumbling far too early specifically fits in with players who planned to pose as masons from the start and were excited to put their plan into action. I don't believe her given reason, that a wagon on town provides no info.
[/spoiler]
I think Prince of Paterson and I are gonna get along great. I can honestly get behind this very very much. The only thing I'd push back on is if they were new. I don't know how much experience Titus has but new masons when they realize they can clear each other get SUPER excited to do so and often do as early as they can.

HOWEVER! Two town neighborhoods does not seem very likely. Considering math/ranger feels MUCH more town it makes more sense for them to.... not be.

Gamma disagreeing with the logic follows with my read of her as well.

Off the top of my head, current town core is from most to least trusted:

Mathblade/Ranger
Quiet Owl

Current scum reads:
Gamma???? I guess?? I don't know I'm not really feeling it much anymore.
Titus/Elements

If you have any questions for me or need me to expand on anything or ISO someone please lemme know.

Oh! I'm most available when I'm at work in front of my computer Sunday-Thrusday 1:30-10PM PST. Fridays/Saturdays are by FAR my most busy. I'll try my hardest to check up on the thread during those days but my posting will be very sparce.

VERY much looking forward to playing with y'all[/quote]
before I read the spoiler I saw the point about 2 hoods, and the hood math and tweetie were in is rather large, I know because I'm in it. So imaginality + titus may be scum or not, but evaluating their claim alongside the hood flip doesn't make sense

btw you can type

Code: Select all

[post]post number[/post]

to link a specific post

[Gamma Emerald]

dragons (aka fenrir) and tweetie, pardon

[Gamma Emerald]

you're all idiots

Welcome to the townbloc.

if Gimli flips scum I'm going to give you infinite shit for this.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: imaginality
an SK duo is something that could exist, it was a thing in my first game I played on the site me and UG come from

also, I already feel more comfortable TRing UG than I did in our last game so that's good

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait a godamn minute here... Would you be able to say exactly how many people are in this hood?

yes, there's 10 people who were in it to start. 8 are still alive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh shoot sorry about the double post my bad.

that happens, it's a documented glitch on this site
also, you don't need to worry about accidental edits as outside of fringe circumstances you won't have an edit button during mafia games

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait a godamn minute here... Would you be able to say exactly how many people are in this hood?

yes, there's 10 people who were in it to start. 8 are still alive.

Do you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that they are all town? If so that presents and issue in a 24 player game.

Either A. THIS is the bastard part of the game, a supermassive town that the mafia cannot possibly all kill.

Or B. That information is the bastard part of the game in that the narrator is lying and not everyone in the neighborhood is, in fact, town.

no, the alignments are unknown
Neighborhoods are private threads where alignment is generally not known. Masonries are private threads where alignment is generally known.

[Gamma Emerald]

it's funny you ask given our last game together

[Gamma Emerald]

yes there fucking was, half-baked setup spec is not something I want going on

[Gamma Emerald]

yes there fucking was, half-baked setup spec is not something I want going on

too bad

the fuck is this supposed to mean

[Gamma Emerald]

I buy UltimateGamer as newb(tomafscum)-town.

the hood (StD) and tweetie were in is rather large, I know because I'm in it. So imaginality + titus may be scum or not, but evaluating their claim alongside the hood flip doesn't make sense

Wait a godamn minute here... Would you be able to say exactly how many people are in this hood?

yes, there's 10 people who were in it to start. 8 are still alive.

Do I need to lay out why needlessly outing this information is +scum from Gamma?

'Cause there was no protown reason to out that.

{HighPrincessErinys, Cat Scratch Fever, MathBlade, Prince of Paterson, Gimli}
{Lycanfire}
{KittyTacky}
{Elements}
{UltimateGamer}
{McMenno}
{kitten around}
{Not_Mafia, Enchant, GeorgeBailey}
{furtiveglance}
{Quiet Owl}
{Gamma Emerald}
---
{Titus, imaginality}

What is tomafscum?

UG isn’t new to mafia, just new to this site

[Gamma Emerald]

I think looking at what she chooses to respond to and how she responds to it is important

no context but I like this from gamma cause it's nuanced. OTOH I think in my notes I had gamma as potential scum so, you know.

my posting will be horrendous for a while and I apologise for that.

So what do you feel she's not responding to?

It’s not quite like that
I suggest you ISO her

kinda funny interaction. maybe gamma being too cryptic in her response isn't super towny.

also I'm reminded that frog wanted to flip gamma and I was agreeing with that when I was reading back then. have to go back to those posts eventually and see what I think now cause IDR what it was anymore.

speaking of which, I have some work done in PT but IDK if I'm allowed to paste parts of it here. that's more for myself than anything. can anyone tell me if I can actually paste PT?

I'm actually more cryptic as town

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
fuck this game

[Gamma Emerald]

is this because of me? I feel bad.

You + Ranger, yes

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma I also like doctor who, I think it's a good show

Thanks for this ig
I’m just a little frustrated that you and Ranger are circlejerking rn, it really kills my faith in anything of value happening this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta. I'm fine ending the day relatively early as this slot isn't flipping town.

VOTE: Gamma

I can quote from not one, not two, not three, but

four

separate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now.

does anyone know if frogster has a very solid read on gamma, in general?

I would have said his rate on me was okay despite probably having bad methods if this game didn’t exist.

[Gamma Emerald]

a thought. no-one believed frog's claim except maybe cat scratch and ranger. so what do they know that we don't?

Ranger's likely just scum.

Ranger had a scheduled delivery of a MacBook so I would buy it.

Some bastard messed it up or Ranger is likely scum.

Super sads

? I am confused.

I think I get it, MacBooks are Apple products.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm actually more cryptic as town

Indeed.

So why aren't you being cryptic here?
You outed a neighborhood which you could've been cryptic about.

I'm frankly frustrated about having to defend something that everyone else would just have be accepted.

Perhaps because your attitude up to and including this post do not fit that of a mason, especially not

you

as a mason? This isn't your play as a mason; this is your play when

pretending

to be a mason.

VOTE: imaginality

I haven’t yet revealed any members that haven’t spoken if it yet.
But like, I was being incredibly cryptic in the hood at one point, which you ate the onion on.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MathBlade

Bad vote

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't want and apple macbook, I already have meat

So Elements probably town for this

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

Guess since it’s out there I am a fruit vendor and sent fruit to Ranger.

Based on something I got from the mod I had suspected mod error but now I can’t verify.

*sigh*

I am just going to hit random people with fruit now.

Can we please kill Gamma now?

Why
You were interested in working with me last night

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not Mafia

I think NM is town, actually

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

Guess since it’s out there I am a fruit vendor and sent fruit to Ranger.

Based on something I got from the mod I had suspected mod error but now I can’t verify.

*sigh*

I am just going to hit random people with fruit now.

Can we please kill Gamma now?

Why
You were interested in working with me last night

I was interested with working with the hood as a whole. Outing PRs without consent is sus AF.

I didn’t out you, I tried to help connect dots.
Though honestly I question your voting record

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not Mafia

I think NM is town, actually

Then pick someone else.

Between outing the hood and my role you’ve nerfed like a shit ton of reaction tests I was going to do.

I don’t know if I even care to, everyone clearly can’t get “hurr durr gamma scum” out of their fucking heads
Doesn’t mean I’m not gonna call out shit play when I see it

[Gamma Emerald]

I admit I wasn’t thinking when I gave that hint but I also could have just kept my fucking mouth shut if I was scum
Which, also, why are you SK bait SPECIFICALLY?

[Gamma Emerald]

I admit I wasn’t thinking when I gave that hint but I also could have just kept my fucking mouth shut if I was scum
Which, also, why are you SK bait SPECIFICALLY?

Because I am a fruit vendor.

SKs tend to be ascetic.

Scum (assuming I don’t have any modifiers) just claim fruit who cares.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's self-vote is very very townie. I don't see scum gamma throwing the game along with her teamates unless it was a coordinated effort. It does not feel like a coordinated effort.

I realize you're new to mafiascum so you wouldn't be as familiar with the tactic Appeal to Emotion per mafiascum meta.

Gamma's self-vote isn't very townie; Gamma's self-vote was

strategic

.

Not_Mafia and Enchant jumping on that immediately after however... Is not something I like to see.

Ironically, I agree with this, but for different reasoning.

I feel it's quite likely 1-2 of them are scum

with

Gamma, and their joining Gamma in her self-vote was an extension of the strategy.

Like there's a world where she's scum, but I think it's not nearly as likely as frustrated angry townie who is fed up.

I've seen Gamma as frustrated town.

This does not look like Gamma as frustrated town.

You’re a fucking liar.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's self-vote is very very townie. I don't see scum gamma throwing the game along with her teamates unless it was a coordinated effort. It does not feel like a coordinated effort.

I realize you're new to mafiascum so you wouldn't be as familiar with the tactic Appeal to Emotion per mafiascum meta.

Gamma's self-vote isn't very townie; Gamma's self-vote was

strategic

.

Not_Mafia and Enchant jumping on that immediately after however... Is not something I like to see.

Ironically, I agree with this, but for different reasoning.

I feel it's quite likely 1-2 of them are scum

with

Gamma, and their joining Gamma in her self-vote was an extension of the strategy.

Like there's a world where she's scum, but I think it's not nearly as likely as frustrated angry townie who is fed up.

I've seen Gamma as frustrated town.

This does not look like Gamma as frustrated town.

You’re a fucking liar.

Let me elaborate on this:
When have you experienced frustrated-town Gamma? Not

seen

, but

experienced

.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

[Gamma Emerald]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

same thing that often triggers my self-votes: wanting to remove the obvious distraction to solving that is myself

[Gamma Emerald]

Let me elaborate on this:
When have you experienced frustrated-town Gamma? Not

seen

, but

experienced

.

I haven't

played

with you before, so I haven't firsthand

experienced

frustrated-town Gamma. But I didn't say experienced; I said

seen

because

that

, I

have

.

My word choice was apt.

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

An excellent question!

then maybe listen to people who

have

experienced it. UG has certainly experienced it, in a circumstance not unlike this one

[Gamma Emerald]

I can definitely see McMenno as scum but I'm currently not shifting my vote

Gamma, what made you self-vote? I can't see a trigger for it

same thing that often triggers my self-votes: wanting to remove the obvious distraction to solving that is myself

So there was no trigger, you just decided to.

the trigger is a certain perception of the gamestate involving myself

[Gamma Emerald]

it's maybe not identical but it's not foreign either.
Also, there's examples on this site of me getting frustrated in this manner as town as well.
Wha tis your frame of reference for "frustraded-town Gamma"?

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda don’t want almost anything Gamma supports.

Thanks, I needed that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know how I feel about them except that I'm tired of this bullshit treatment that ranger has been doing all game and math is joining into

[Gamma Emerald]

Fuck this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not_Mafia died! they were a naive cop.

with no way for the town to prevent a mafia win, the mafia (kitten around, Summon The Phoenix, and Ranger) have won the game. as the winner of the largest number of dead thread lovers mafia games, Elements has also won the game.

later on, I'll be asking if you have any posts you made in private threads that you want redacted (if you had access to a private threads removed and aren't sure whether there are any you want removed, PM me). I'll release all the private threads after that process.

Shouldn’t Mathblade be included in the mafia win?

[Gamma Emerald]

phase ??? has ended.

McMenno has died. they were a mafia 1-shot cop immune godfather.

MathBlade has died. he was a mafia fruit vendor neighbor.

Enchant has died. they were a mafia multitasking gunsmith compulsive disloyal inventor.

the account Summon The Phoenix is the hydra of furtiveglance and Lady Lambdadelta.

votecount 4.01

everything that matters to me matters in this world

9 players not voting (Not_Mafia, Gimli, imaginality, Summon The Phoenix, Titus, Quiet Owl, Prince of Paterson, Ranger, KittyTacky)

with 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

mod notes:

Yeah what?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have grievances.

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s all good now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Rereading the hood I realize I almost had Ranger entire team nailed to the cross at one point
Note to self: Ranger playing belligerently hostile is an admission of guilt, and a dead ringer that you’re on the right track.

[Gamma Emerald]

sigh

[Gamma Emerald]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

For those who don't get the sarcasm, let me make it clear;
I've been lying since my very first werewolf game, predating my time on mafiascum.

Scum lie; telling the truth is a weakness. There's certain lies which're unethical; as long as none crossing lines are made, anything goes.

If this stance seems out of place for your perspective on my mafia worldview, let me be clear;
I am not mastina, nor an alt of her.
Exploiting erroneous assumptions I am I don't consider unethical. I'll tell the truth when need be; I'll lie otherwise.

I specifically suggested the masonry

because that’s what mastina does

. So you were willing to exploit misconceptions about playing like mastina, but when I stole her gimmick you tried to snap my neck. Do you see how that comes off as shitty and manipulative?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, I fail to see how “I’m going to exploit misconceptions about my similarity to this person people might know me by BUT ALSO I’m going to disavow that identity at every turn and ruthlessly target someone for trying to do something in line with that identity” is a town mindset or a fair way to play in any universe!

[Gamma Emerald]

Uhhh okay?

[Gamma Emerald]

I acknowledge I probably did a bad by interacting like that, however, I have a distinct issue with re-introducing myself in some situations, one which *certain* people are probably aware of.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. My mind is made up atp.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it would’ve been more fair if y’all were forced to post from a hydra account rather than posting on your mains? I feel like at least for me posting from a hydra can reduce thread presence, it depends on how I’m accessing it. Mobile definitely causes a marked thread presence reduction when on hydra.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. My mind is made up atp.

That's your right. It's your life.

Perhaps later you'll have some self-reflection.

I have reflected enough both recently and in the past.

I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE.

I try to avoid lashing out except in cases I deem critical to survival. I did my best to keep myself in check this game, avoiding being drawn into a garbage-fire fight with Frogsterking. When it became my impression that you wanted to go low, I disengaged by quitting the game. Mathblade I have less ill will towards as he wasn’t around for the whole game. You meanwhile pushed me to near my breaking point, had I not left when I did I would have gone ballistic. And now you have the nerve to accuse me for simply speaking my mind?

I do not want you to speak ANOTHER WORD to me. We are DONE.

[Gamma Emerald]

I could try to relay which posts bothered me at this point but instead I’ll say this
You might have a point, but I honestly would rather just move well past this. Can we just agree that in term of you and me, this game never happened?

[Gamma Emerald]

aight