Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[Psyche]

No need to welcome me. How could I ever deserve such gallantry.

[Psyche]

yes vry kafkaesque gj firebringer

[Psyche]

No need to welcome me. How could I ever deserve such gallantry.

Did ur slot submit anything for popularity contest?

i don't really know what this means yet but i'm working on it and will let you know

[Psyche]

this thread is too long for me to triple post, right? but man i suddenly feel so exuberant
this is a love letter to anyone: we can be serious tomorrow. let's be in love today. if this thread has you feeling down, come be the change, come shitpost with me. u and me we are playing a game together that at this rate will last months and that is horrifying and beautiful and we're doing it together. wow.

additionally, under the following spoiler, i identify posts from the first 10 pages of this thread i find myself reading that i found interesting and/or fascinating. some commentary is included indicating as much but further commentary however is still pending.

each of you must have quite a lot of work on your plates and im soo sorry to add more but at a time convenient for you please review these posts one more time and let me know if you have any thoughts or concerns that i can address at a time convenient for me. thank you.

ugh wait someone put a broken spoiler tag in one of their posts. wow. you know what i'm abandoning this bit. the bit is over. carry on until i'm done reading this thread in a week

[Psyche]

ugh that post wouldve been way cooler if it wasn't actually a shitpost

[Psyche]

it sure should! well maybe. even once i know them i should probably also decide if they should be known. but i can do that now! it's no trouble at all! i am very well known for being generous with my time

[Psyche]

i have decided in the affirmative. what a relief to discard this determination from my to do list

[Psyche]

how many more pages do i have to read before i can understand ongoing dialogue

[Psyche]

thank you pooky that music is very moving. surely i will finish reading this thread before the name of life, from miyazaki's multiple award-winning masterpiece spirited away, is played a fourth time

[Psyche]

i have finally received penguinpower's rankings, and boy are they a doozy. such a prismatic window into his thinking -- his psyche, i daresay. but honestly i don't know if it's right to share them. don't get me wrong; i vaguely comprehend the strategic value. vaguely! but i mean these are his private opinions of all of you, and he's not around anymore to explain or defend them. it's as if he left behind a grenade with the pin barely still in. i don't know if he ever thought these rich, titillating secrets would ever get out. it feels like a violation. a breaking of norms. i will have to consult further with my conscience. and if it weren't for site rules i would also consult with my mother. but unfortunately, this is a crucible i have to endure on my own.

[Psyche]

let me read like 5 more pages before u do anything dramatic

[Psyche]

i have finally received penguinpower's rankings, and boy are they a doozy. such a prismatic window into his thinking -- his psyche, i daresay. but honestly i don't know if it's right to share them. don't get me wrong; i vaguely comprehend the strategic value. vaguely! but i mean these are his private opinions of all of you, and he's not around anymore to explain or defend them. it's as if he left behind a grenade with the pin barely still in. i don't know if he ever thought these rich, titillating secrets would ever get out. it feels like a violation. a breaking of norms. i will have to consult further with my conscience. and if it weren't for site rules i would also consult with my mother. but unfortunately, this is a crucible i have to endure on my own.

ok ok im also bored of the bit and may go see a movie so i'll hurry and clarify: the above is a very funny joke. perhaps the funniest you have read in a while. the punchline (after several posts, including announcement of a multi-page reveal ceremony in high Chevre style and I swear to god I'll weave that into a post here someday) is an empty spoiler tag. i asked fb for records of secret activities and was provided the most boring reply imaginable. thank you, i'll be here all night. also i have many more than 5 pages left to read before i can contribute meaningfully to this thread. many more.

wow i'm so pumped to be here! like a social life but with hostages. now that i think about it maybe that's also why i play league of legends. 20-40 minutes of inescapable bliss engineered with game theory. this is another joke i swear

[Psyche]

i usually do chill out after the first few days i just wanna put that out there i'm super selfaware about it but i just can't stop someone help me i don't really mean it this is fun but it's also narcissistic i will go bother my boyfriend of 5 (?) years whom i don't know how to leave

[Psyche]

i've developed a few townreads based on the first bit of the game and also a scumread that has already flipped town!

[Psyche]

like I think Pengy not being able to keep up is kinda scum indicative and Psyche has like literally done nothing so far while playing.

I am riddled with doubt and indecision I blame Firebringer for running a bastard game and making FurtiveGlance town.

cmon it's like a 100 pages lemme warm up

[Psyche]

i think if i wanna have a chance at good ones i do!

[Psyche]

meh maybe i'll start sharing takes-in-progress there's an oversharey vibe to it that i like. but rn they are just too undercooked. if i don't hit certain milestones on time i'll ease up on the full read first plan. i get it though the cookie test is hard for me too

[Psyche]

oh i thought id been forced into the mobile skin but this is the site now huh

[Psyche]

Wow I really wonder what could have happened since early game to make Enchant suspicious in the first place

[Psyche]

ok HC is haschel
and why would one want their own team in a challenge

[Psyche]

wow these posts submit so fast

[Psyche]

oh right the money
man see every time i pipe up i feel a gap in experience

[Psyche]

wait but i thought everyone agreed the stuff in the item shop are all kinda antitown

[Psyche]

sure yeah but cmon life is short

[Psyche]

Me and Alisae have been talking, honestly I've been posting more in our hood than in the main thread right now but hm

Right now I think we're both considering team swapping Enchant to Titus/Psyche here the most interesting option given there's a significant number of people also interested on those slots

I've some other suspects but honestly they're unviable to challenge right now

Unless I'm daykilled (which I kinda doubt a bit rn given my position in this game atm?), this is nightless and I'll probably be here anyway later so not too worried on guessing all scum from the start

Imma be blunt: if Psyche/Titus lacks scum, Alisae is scum.

is titus also particularly suspicious or are you saying psyche/titus to hedge

[Psyche]

ooh oooh ooh ok i have something

have obsessed some over how i should read that one enchant post about elo that tried to break the game. and has implied that the take contained may not be as cold as i originally thought so why not write it out? warning note that i still haven't read most of the posts in this thread.

It's definitely pro-town to outline such a strategy but otoh scum could notice the potential strategy and decide to divulge it for town points.

This alternative though requires that the scum player was thoughtful enough to identify the strategy and then presumably just as thoughtfully determined that the downsides for scum of revealing the strategy were outweighed by the upside of being the party that revealed it

Prima facie, since the strategy as outlined was so powerful, the scenario above seems hard to take seriously, leaning me toward a townread. so question to me is how firm the townread should actually be.

One interesting factor this hinges on is that firebringer really didn't do any clarification until after the public discussion. I think this assumption is reasonable primarily based my belief that he'd want to address apparent gaps in his design promptly. This belief also suggests that the team swap strategy wasn't discussed in a private thread -- at least not substantially enough for FB to take action. I feel like the strategy was apparently powerful enough that scum who'd noticed it would at least discuss a bit before bringing it up in the public thread, perhaps even actively reaching out to FB first for clarification. So the observation that FB's clarification occurred after public discussion makes me feel all the more sure that the team swap strategy wasn't proposed by scum.

This conclusion withstands consideration of some other assumptions that might seem weak on their own.

For example, one factor that might motivate scum to reveal even a powerful town strategy is if they think the strategy's discovery by the town is inevitable. If they don't think the strategy's implementation depends on whether they specifically are the ones who outlined it, they might decide to reveal it themselves in hopes of minimizing harm. If a scum player has high respect for the analytical players of someone in the player list, then maybe they'd be especially inclined to this reasoning. The problem w/ this argument is that it assumes a pattern of caution in the scum player that contradicts with FB's behavior. Cautious scum would workshop this move first with their teammates.

But what about the possibility that scum-enchant is the opposite of cautious-scum? That he detected the strategy, and then revealed it w/o much discussion with his teammates? After all, cleverness and caution don't always occur together. Some recent posts by enchant have even convinced me that he has a whimsical streak. I guess it's possible but I think I'm more whimsical than Enchant and in that situation I'd still probably talk the gambit through in my PT first, though perhaps primarily to bask in its absurdity. So I don't really read enchant as the sort of player to be so simultaneously spontaneous and focused that the issue wasn't discussed in thread and flagged by FB beforehand.

Oh but a possibility more serious: maybe FB is a slack or overloaded guy who isn't following along in realtime. He's managing like 50 different threads and mechanics, I guess. But idk. It was earlygame and reading scum pts are among the more enjoyable duties of a game moderator. So I discount the importance of that possibility.

so yeah pretty strong townread for enchant. wonder what in this thread could possibly shake it. hope everyone else is as easy to read.

on the other hand i really thought furtive was scum why am i wasting my energy when i'm dumb and permanently wrong and have an irl job i'm blowing off someone pls fix me i can't do it i have a 100 page thread to read

[Psyche]

wow quite a few new pages. i was worried this might be one of those zombie 100 games.

in general not super impressed w alisae’s style of reasoning/argument. seems motivated in some places and overconfident in others. and after apparently leading a mislim! 2682 just seems an overwrought way of stating that one’s scumreads are among a pool of 8/14 players but seems presented as a form of poe. feels like that time an uber driver tutored me about my star sign. but tbh i've been in a lot of games where i've been irked by patterns like these and decided it was one of those gut reads people keep talking about and ultimately learned that it was a poor one. wish this post could be me announcing a scumlean or whatever bc i assume that's the kind of content you all are saying is missing from my iso but no i guess it's just me whining in the end.

[Psyche]

I don't actually mind the kookiness if that's even a word. I don't think I'll get psyche's alignment from that.

I'm really looking for anything of substance. Something to make the slot, actually like, readable? So far what's being posted ain't it.

Like his 1 post today was him basically whining about my play.
I think his 1 main post yesterday was about enchant, a topic which no one is interested in?

Useless, like a Naruto filler episode.

im gonna have a lot of posts when i have finished reading! i cannot make substantive contributions until i'm caught up. i'm working on that!

[Psyche]

Not exactly. I suggested an action. We discussed it but he waffled. Neither of us submitted the action. I got it under the wire. Totally plausible scum tried to steal from us thinking my IRL would stop me from bolding in time.

??? we didn't discuss it. you weren't around to discuss it

[Psyche]

I outlined an argument for stealing. the gist of the argument was that just as it's good strategy for town to hammer a null read when the alternative is their own elimination, it might be similarly sound strategy to steal from a null read instead of leaving flags with these null reads. furthermore, by my understanding of the setup, the combined probability that 1) there's a team composed entirely of scum and/or dominated by scum motivation and 2) this fully scum team would target us for stealing is negligible. so i wasn't very worried about the danger of guarding. finally, i didn't discuss this reasoning here in this thread because obviously implying you won't guard increases the likelihood that you'll be targetted for stealing. something i didn't mention but now comes to mind is that stealing can also be useful for information-gathering since it provides info about whether another team has guarded.

i have had no way to be familiar with how "swamped" titus's life is. maybe it's mentioned somewhere in this thread that i haven't finished reading. besides, i consider myself at least nearly swamped given that i came in about 100 pages behind any of you and also am an actual person with things like a job and relationships. because of the reading i'm trying to finish, i suspect i'm spending more time per day on this thread than any of you right now even though i'm still less acquainted w the game's details and history. after titus didn't reply again the thread as the deadline was incoming, i figured saying "ok fine we can guard" would be enough to signal to firebringer that we have agreed on an action. i don't consider this waffling and i never really changed my opinion about whether to steal. w/o titus's reply though, i thought guarding was the only alternative to doing nothing at all.

[Psyche]

another reason there's no way i'd be able to move forward w stealing w/o titus's go ahead is of course that my reads at the time were largely worse than null since they were not informed much by the game state. if taken seriously, any stealing would have needed to be directed by titus's intuitions about the gamestate.

[Psyche]

all I have as a defense atm is to say ill finish reading eventually and to insist again that the substance of my content should be graded on a curve
it's a complicated setup and 100 pages and even after reading it all pulling together sound reads is another task
as some here are eager to demonstrate

frankly yall have had way more time to digest this stuff and are not clearly providing much better
would personally feel at least as useless as i do now if i read this this whole thread and turned out to barely have more than "well they aren't doing much and seem tough to read" to base a lim on
different standards i guess

[Psyche]

im sry that was rude u guys are doing ur best and it's a game anyway

[Psyche]

anyway this all goes away once i impress u guys w my amazing reads that definitely aren't now overhyped and guaranteed to disappoint everyone especially myself so i should just focus on reading that would be the constructive thing to do instead of typing what i'm typing right now so i will do it right now yep right now. now.

wait but first

i'm unsure how to think about this thing w titus. is it a misunderstanding or a misrep? i don't have in mind a method for distinguishing the two but I'll work on one. i assume i can't directly quite stuff from my pt but the exchange went like (and there are still no further new posts):

FB: u have to decide this thing for this event very soon
titus (very soon after): i wanna guard
me (30 min later) being charming
me being charming
me (1 hr later): well maybe stealing has its merits here's a poorly formatted explanation for this stance [Q: should i be line breaking every sentence instead of using paragraphs?]
me (20 hours later, deadline in 6 hours if i remember right): well i'll guard too if we aren't able to discuss this
nothing for somewhere between one and two days im not gonna do the math then titus says guard in like Bold but this was after the deadline but got confirmed by FB in a whole post anyway?

it seems clear that i was missing a lot of deets though. for example, i currently suspect that there are multiple rounds of this flag game even though FB only posted one deadline into our PT! and then there's this suggestion in Titus's posts that we in fact never confirmed a submission for the first round and that guarding can in fact collect information just like attempting a steal can. i'd agree that it's very lame that i haven't kept up with these details but there are a lot of excuses i could volunteer for this failure. but none of them wouldvemattered if i'd kept fb's original post about the flag game in one of my browser tabs somewhere.

ok now i've probably provided all the context i have for the exchange. i really don't get how i come off as waffling here. and i know i shouldn't care but "waffle" has negative connotations! call me useless if u want but a waffle?? and even after u returned u never engaged w that idea i came up with! coming up with ideas is work. so rude tbh

anyway i took a caffeine pill some time ago this is the beginning of a busy night that i regret alloting to a party game in a forum i once disavowed but here we are

[Psyche]

kerfuffle! why i never

[Psyche]

hey i might still 1v1 you this is a very slow paced game who knows what will happen

[Psyche]

i am not thumb-twiddling! i am simply equivalently, but only terminally, useless to a thumb-twiddler

[Psyche]

there's something off about the wording in my last post but grammarly is helpless to fix it
incidentally grammarly says the only thing off about this post im typing is that i didn't capitalize grammarly like the proper noun it is

[Psyche]

i am not thumb-twiddling! i am simply equivalently, but only terminally, useless to a thumb-twiddler

who is scum then psyche

lead us to victory

i cannot name scum for you but i can provide you a strategy for finding them:
read the thread!
in fact let's start a reading club. we could call it "the company of pages"

[Psyche]

using a random number generator that is illegal for me to prove i used, i have identified 10 pages that the company of pages could re-read together to find scum:

38
42
12
115
56
77
30
72
51
13

[Psyche]

i see a lot of enthusiasm for caution-throwing and not a lot of enthusiasm for reading
very interesting

[Psyche]

pooky
u wound me

[Psyche]

i didnt finish tonight. i got too sleepy and the words aren't sticking to my head. but i think i can guarantee i'll have substantive posts this evening, even if i don't actually get through reading everything worth reading. I've digested enough that i can scrutinize isos, discuss important happenings. i will be unstoppableeee

[Psyche]

aw man i overhyped again
ok sleepy psyche mode on

[Psyche]

aw man i overhyped again
ok sleepy psyche mode on

Are you actually gonna post anything important.

it'll be important to me

[Psyche]

also i made a really good wallpost about why enchant is very probably town and it saddens me to learn its impact has not been decisive

[Psyche]

every time i see the last post is by psyche i get a little bit excited inside but i really should know better by now

yeah well when i see the last post is by pooky i have to take a moment to remember which player that is!

[Psyche]

Ok pookers what alignment do you think the other players are in the mafia game

i wanted to interrogate psyche but he keeps giving me the slip and pushing his "Reads"

i mean i can type stuff in response to questions before im done if u want

[Psyche]

please any other question

[Psyche]

i swear he's misspelling it on purpose

[Psyche]

some of me wants to type "sorry" for still not having the cool stuff ready but honestly yall are hypocrites. return to this thread every several to see 3 new pages with absolutely nothing of value in them but also a growing wagon on me for not reaching my content era fast enough. i am the hero you deserve

i found myself a new strategy for sifting through posts that i really like and that's enough for me from this game

but man so much lost time

[Psyche]

when i apologize it's usually more for me. like a condom between personal standards from who i really am. or i guess a plan b pill.

[Psyche]

Asking you questions is like pulling teeth

its because your questions are boring!

[Psyche]

the best way to get someone to rush to answer a question is to titillate them w its profundity

[Psyche]

ok ok so i'm running out of steam again but i'm just dying to know something

Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

I'm basing this on my meta knowledge. We've been chatting on Discord for a long time so i feel like i'm probably the best judge of character on their alignment. Haven't been wrong a single time so far. (Well, minus our first game together back in like 2019)

Like i sometimes just look at games Shirou plays, makes a guess based on their ISO. And turn out right.

I realize this will just make my position worse like every single time ever. But it’s really annoying how i try to get a footing and everyone susses me. Makes me empathic for Cakez. Like what has he done, nothing. But Gamma just thunderdomed them. I also hate the vibes Pooky and to an extent Shirou has created in this game. I’ll be honest, i didn’t really townread Shirou. I just think one of them must be scum and i’d much rather believe it’s Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

did this really just go absolutely nowhere? i mean i just

[Psyche]

….

Is it really that hard for you to tell me how many posts freedom made in your pt

hard's less the word than tedious. i'm already doing something else. why should i make ur thing priority 1 if it's not gonna move the needle or be any fun?

[Psyche]

alisae's missing from the alive list

[Psyche]

I object to the characterization of me as "absent" considering the game has been open for barely more than 48 hours.

oh my god
ok you know what i give up
i don't know why i remembered this as an easier task. maybe i used to have more time.

here's a rough reads list i'm still trying to figure out the margins of. my reading strategy has been to highlight gaps in my understanding as i read along, and fill them as i go along. and there's still some holes/todos i need to fill that could move things around a lot if the outcomes are surprising. I'll discuss these reads at length as they get relevant for discussion and/or surface to my own interest and/or become refined. If I had to sum up my view of the game, I'd say that Pooky's reads have been solid if boisterous, and that negative reactions to their posts have been oddly disengaged from the content. I think I'm obliged to vote Titus atm but won't do it until I provide a more complete examine of the pros and cons of available options (which will be my top priority when I get back).

People who I feel quite certain are town:
Enchant
Shea
pooky

People who at least put on a decent show of it (I can't rule out that they're scum, but imo there's no good case for it):
gamma
SirCakez
T-Bone
Shirou
Save The Dragons (caveat: this one's iso is imo around as fluffy as mine!)

People I could make an unsatisfying case for as scum:
Haschel Cedricson
Titus (though I think I'm plenty close to a read on this slot)

People who I could easily case as scum but yknow whatever:
NorwegianboyEE
Alisae

People who I feel quite certain are scum:


I don't actually play a lot of mafia and have never been good at reads. A repeat of that other punchline I guess. It would a small mercy if I didn't have to worry about refining this list further but I shouldn't say that.

[Psyche]

Username Posts
Firebringer 5
Titus 7
Psyche 4
Freedom 6
PenguinPower 3

[Psyche]

im awake again!
but im a little burned out

[Psyche]

I think psyche is the best flip in the game because I can’t read it and if it’s flip tells me if I need to look for 3 wolves or 4. I literally always want to flip it.

this is typical of why i think alisae is scummy. never actually pushes scumreads identified as scumreads, apparently doesn't have them. same pattern was evident in their pooky vote in the earlygame. haven't digged into how the slot ended up on the furtive wagon but i'd bet it's the same thing. more egregious here since iirc the slot specifically created this exact dilemma between supposed null reads using an item.

[Psyche]

I think my play has probably singlehandedly costed village the game then...

pedit: No Shirou I haven't realized that

oh woe for you, so tragic

[Psyche]

to add more context to what i mean, here's a sequence that has not sat right with me:

You seem to think I'm ?scum? when I wasn't trying to powerplay?

i think you're scum because you're openly trying to get t-bone to vote me via a manipulation tactic that is scummy af and i also found your mech analysis pretty lacking tho i was willing to ignore that because you said you wanted to chillax this game.

why do you have your panties in a knot over 1 singular vote
if anything villagers should be open to the idea of using their vote to apply pressure
it's not like the vote is going to make or break your wagon

I don't get the issue

really weird framing here

address the concern
VOTE: pooky
not rly interested in this PvP mindset bullshit of attacking back and my main concern is I don't see how what you are describing is wolf indicative at all

as posed doesn't seem to root vote in a scumread, which i don't like. even as a pressure vote, pressure's weaker w/ implication that a post is scummy.
alisae seems to make a whole thing of aligning beforehand with idea of votes as pressure tools rather than positional signals. but that stance provides a certain extra flexibility to scum; their votes get harder to read but can still be held to out of stubbornness.
that a pressure vote would come after this ode to pressuring also feels potentially contrived. easy to dispel if alisae's got a pattern of this kind of thing in other games or theory discussion.

You seem to think I'm ?scum? when I wasn't trying to powerplay?

i think you're scum because you're openly trying to get t-bone to vote me via a manipulation tactic that is scummy af and i also found your mech analysis pretty lacking tho i was willing to ignore that because you said you wanted to chillax this game.

why do you have your panties in a knot over 1 singular vote
if anything villagers should be open to the idea of using their vote to apply pressure
it's not like the vote is going to make or break your wagon

I don't get the issue

really weird framing here

address the concern
VOTE: pooky
not rly interested in this PvP mindset bullshit of attacking back and my main concern is I don't see how what you are describing is wolf indicative at all

mmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No actually
what's the point of responding like this
these are basically just nothing responses that if anything what you think of the post.
so like what's the point?

im laughing at your openwolfiness and telling you i know you're a wolf just wait your turn

Well if you don't give me any room to solve your slot and treat me like an enemy then really you give me no room to try to find the innocence in your slot

And this is so oddly inflexible. Your ability to read pookie *really* depends on whether they can answer this question? Seems more plausible to interpret this as a contrived way to commit to the vote w/o having to commit to a scumread. A null explanation though could be that this is just an expression of frustration and/or attempt to fortify the pressure vote. But I have trouble stomaching it.

UNVOTE:

ok i'll sheep you for now std i trust u
VOTE: cakez

and i'm supposed to interpret the sequence w pooky as a high-pressure interrogation so u can sort town from scum but now all the gas is gone and it's cool to put cake at L-1 w/o any clear plan for actually sorting them.

[Psyche]

Anyway I'm happy to put cakez out of his misery.
I have a challenge in mind I would like to make after this one

distanced from but perfectly happy to hammer, purposeless mysteriousness about actual reads. wait no, not reads, just intended challenges which as we now know is something different.

suspect that this whole game alisae will back lims on the basis of achieving catharsis and clarifying null reads while always being a step away from solving the game

People who I feel quite certain are town:
Enchant
Shea
pooky

People who at least put on a decent show of it (I can't rule out that they're scum, but imo there's no good case for it):
gamma
SirCakez
T-Bone
Shirou
Save The Dragons (caveat: this one's iso is imo around as fluffy as mine!)

People I could make an unsatisfying case for as scum:
Haschel Cedricson
Titus (though I think I'm plenty close to a read on this slot)

People who I could easily case as scum but yknow whatever:
NorwegianboyEE
Alisae

are those still your reads psyche?

did titus flipping town change anything?

woah yall really flipped titus over me? so kind. no, so impatient. egh.

[Psyche]

titus flipping town doesn't change my reads too much. just sort of disperses suspicion i had for slot to others, probably people leading it. has "all according to keikaku" vibes, especially with me lined up. it's 140 pages and town is still pigeonholed into limming people for not being readable.

[Psyche]

woah yall really flipped titus over me? so kind. no, so impatient. egh.

People I could make an unsatisfying case for as scum:
Haschel Cedricson

Titus

(though I think I'm plenty close to a read on this slot)

i don't think you can act like titus was a bad lim when you had her in your scum leans as well psyche

it was a nullread! why we are limming the people in the middle of our lists

[Psyche]

I have no fucking idea how Psyche is a villager and I have no idea how there are people defending it. It's actually just crazy to me.

so it's from "psyche is unreadable" to "i have no fucking idea how psyche is a villager"

[Psyche]

VOTE: Alisae

[Psyche]

have you considered voting

MANIPULATION

i know i said pooky has seemed right all game but the exception was the whole "pointing out conflicts between statements and behavior is manipulation" thing

[Psyche]

also this is now a dated comparison but is "openwolfing" the "fake news" of mafiascum right now?

[Psyche]

do you think we should town read you here psyche<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">if yes why

im trying to find scum and i'm really open about it

[Psyche]

i don't really believe in association tells until i get a flip or nearly strong confirmation
i say "i don't really believe" but maybe i mean "i don't know how to do it and i'm too afraid of being wrong to try"

i think ill still do a review of my notes around freedom/titus before the idea fades from memory

[Psyche]

i don't really believe in association tells until i get a flip or nearly strong confirmation
i say "i don't really believe" but maybe i mean "i don't know how to do it and i'm too afraid of being wrong to try"

i think ill still do a review of my notes around freedom/titus before the idea fades from memory

this said, i still can't believe norwee just got away w

literally

openly fabricating reads and dropping them when it inconvenient. i'm emphasizing literally again now to distinguish from the whole "openwolfing" hyperbole. what the hell??

by contrast, I can see why alisae's still alive and that may be a good reason for me to focus more on them first.
the reason IMO is that people have a way of mistaking complexity for substance.
simply doing things and elaborating reasons for it is usually enough to pass a first pass smell test.
but w alisae it's all actually nothing!
hang onto their words a little and you'll see alisae is even open about how it's nothing.

"nothing" is safer than trying to base these actions on reads because "nothing" 1) avoids accountability, 2) is more consistent with the gamestate and 3) is easier to coherently articulate compared to the farce that slots they've targetted have actually been scummy
"nothing" is also more suited for not just lining up but forcing a series of lims on null slots

please don't misunderstand me: lots of people here have nothing and i don't scumread all of them
i don't think alisae is scummy

just

because this positioning is convenient for scum
but for alisae it's the root of the contradiction that exposes this whole act as contrived
their read progression IMO is where its execution is especially transparent
i gotta highlight them in separate posts since people skim these walls

just about every vote and challenge has been contrived as justified by alisae's nothing -- "it serves read clarification"
(IMO the idea of that it also theoretically dubious. Instead of eliminating people's top scumreads, the lims that best serves "read clarification" are those for people that other slots have neither asserted clear reads about or or otherwise meaningfully interacted with??)
but IMO alisae's specifically weaponized this strategy here due to the challenge system; it's provided license to announce only null reads but drive the game anyway and force the town to colloraborate in their performative myopia
i get that it's it's bold to try enacting as a strategy; i mean, a challenge makes it possible to get limmed oneself
but i think alisae's personality and confidence in their scumplay are plenty compatible w/ being so bold
i swear there's something here

[Psyche]

surprised how jealous i am they replaced out i forgot that is an option but it would be lamer for me since i wasn't here for 150 pages so ok

[Psyche]

aw man do i have to recant the "bold player" read

[Psyche]

ugh so i'm a little at a loss, have to recalibrate. maybe do that titus discussion i was talking about. jealous of you titus

[Psyche]

so i presumably i don't have enough gold for team swap but this is so lame

[Psyche]

hehehehahaha

[Psyche]

i think u guys are a little too complacent about being in a clown car
those things look very crowded and uncomfortable

[Psyche]

is all the stuff above this post really just totally copacetic to u guys

[Psyche]

it's like those posts occurred in a pocket universe that only i can see
man i'm so tired of this game

[Psyche]

That’s why I try to be deliberate in what I mention about my process in PTs
I feel like it’s a pretty big tip-off if someone just hard pivots their playstyle after you’ve voiced something about it outside their presumed hearing range

this is a really cute idea though

[Psyche]

wait im sorry let's look at what norwee means when they say they've "already talked about Psyche" (separate post bc im mobile)

[Psyche]

I don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push so my current take is that either Psyche is killed or teams get switched to something like idunoooo Haschel?

could norwegianboye elaborate for the class why they "don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push" or is an air of mystery just that desperately needed for ventilating the circus vehicle

Sheep is just another early-Psyche at this point. Barely doing fuckall.

also guy literally just got here and you're already lining him up for not having anything yet sweet jesus

[Psyche]

ugh can't even genuinely knock you for basing a scumread on a new replace-in for not generating content because that kind of lazy bullshit is vogue

[Psyche]

I don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push so my current take is that either Psyche is killed or teams get switched to something like idunoooo Haschel?

could norwegianboye elaborate for the class why they "don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push" or is an air of mystery just that desperately needed for ventilating the circus vehicle

Sheep is just another early-Psyche at this point. Barely doing fuckall.

also guy literally just got here and you're already lining him up for not having anything yet sweet jesus

I don't believe in it because Alisae has been fitting strongly into their town meta and the repout also seemed to not make sense from a Scum!POV

As for the second point. How was i supposed to know he would post right after me? He had been gone for a long time prior to that and not posted much. Like wtf is this argument.

this doesn't even make any sense. my alisae push is disingenuous because it's unaware of her town meta? and what does sheep posting after you have to do w the fact that you called a new replacement into a 150 page thread scummy for not "doing fuck-all"?

[Psyche]

ugh can't even genuinely knock you for basing a scumread on a new replace-in for not generating content because that kind of lazy bullshit is vogue

Are you serious?

oh yeah this is my comic routine to end them all

[Psyche]

Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

I'm basing this on my meta knowledge. We've been chatting on Discord for a long time so i feel like i'm probably the best judge of character on their alignment. Haven't been wrong a single time so far. (Well, minus our first game together back in like 2019)

I realize this will just make my position worse like every single time ever. But it’s really annoying how i try to get a footing and everyone susses me. Makes me empathic for Cakez. Like what has he done, nothing. But Gamma just thunderdomed them. I also hate the vibes Pooky and to an extent Shirou has created in this game. I’ll be honest, i didn’t really townread Shirou. I just think one of them must be scum and i’d much rather believe it’s Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

question for anyone: what's the over/under on how many pages before norwee admits this meta read on alisae is a fabrication too?

[Psyche]

I was merely stating the obvious. Sheep has not done anything townie since rep-in. Not saying that makes them scum but it doesn't mean i'm gonna give them points when i scumread their predecessor.

talking about new replacements doing fuck all but, to underline, this is norwee's incredibly townie, incredibly substantive take on the game after playing it for one hundred and fifty pages:

I've already talked about Psyche so the next two:
Cakez i would say i'm not feeling their content lately. Waffling language, saying they are scumreading Psyche but also that the Psyche wagon could be scum-driven... I also considered that Alisae probably just is town so i'm not sure i like Cakez scumread there either.
Sheep is just another early-Psyche at this point. Barely doing fuckall.

sheep hasn't read the thread yet. is this also norwee's excuse?

[Psyche]

Shirou very townie Pooky still idk.
That's what i got out from previous pages.

Explain further what is townie about shirou

I'm basing this on my meta knowledge. We've been chatting on Discord for a long time so i feel like i'm probably the best judge of character on their alignment. Haven't been wrong a single time so far. (Well, minus our first game together back in like 2019)

I realize this will just make my position worse like every single time ever. But it’s really annoying how i try to get a footing and everyone susses me. Makes me empathic for Cakez. Like what has he done, nothing. But Gamma just thunderdomed them. I also hate the vibes Pooky and to an extent Shirou has created in this game. I’ll be honest, i didn’t really townread Shirou. I just think one of them must be scum and i’d much rather believe it’s Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

question for anyone: what's the over/under on how many pages before norwee admits this meta read on alisae is a fabrication too?

i gotta quote these one more time. do you know norwee literally never got around to explaining why they believed exactly one of shirou/pooky must be scum so intensely that they'd lie about a meta read? has anyone paid any attention at all to how the slot's reads on shirou/pooky progressed after this disclosure about their lie and inner conflict? for a summary, could look at the quotes in my last post

[Psyche]

otoh i think i do wanna hang on to the alisae read too though. it is weaker with the replace-out, but is an exaggeration to say it should be totally reversed given the content we have in this thread and the range of alternative explanations for the happening besides i guess an apparent change of heart about a sincere scumread on me

also at this point the "psyche has done nothing" line has gotta be getting stale

[Psyche]

People I could make an unsatisfying case for as scum:
Haschel Cedricson
Titus (though I think I'm plenty close to a read on this slot)

it was a nullread! why we are limming the people in the middle of our lists

this was also bullshit i was just tired and scared to push it too much

it's not bullshit. why would i hang on reads even i understand have weak basis

[Psyche]

there's no scum motive in asserting titus was a null read after his flip. you've identified something you think is an inconsistency due to wording that sure i can see might be misleading, but connection to a scum win condition is not there.

also motive for norwee admitting to lying about read there was imo just to look townie based on the same reasoning you're providing. the reason i don't think it looks townie and that you're failing to engage w at all is that her volunteered justification for the lie is neither 1) credible (she had a pookie-xor-shirou read at that point and it was so important to resolve that she'd rather lie? but also not make any real push on pookie?), nor 2) consistent w her read progression from that point forward

also really? sat on this complaint about my titus post all this time bc of shyness? i am legit the wagon right now. of course you're gonna end up on mislim after mislim if you just sit on impressions w/o talking about them

[Psyche]

this post kinda hints that maybe ?flipping him? would be better than titus and he had her as a scum lean

such a silly take. yeah im so racked by guilt for being scum that i'm making freudian slips

[Psyche]

it's not bullshit. why would i hang on reads even i understand have weak basis

i don't understand what you mean here

you had suspicious on titus and still seemed to dislike the wagon happening at all rather than *yours*

you talked like as if us flipping you would be better than flipping titus and that feels lamist to me

i think it's dumb to only be able to eliminate null reads in games w 150 pages
it means town sat around all that time and did nothing
so much has happened but everyone acts like bystanders in it all. pile blame on the limmed slot for not making content as if it those were their only options.

i don't think lamist is a real tell anyway. as if only scum could ever have motive to complain when a town is fucking up.

the sad thing imo is that when i flip you'll still think lamist is a real tell just like people are still riding on "no content" as a lim basis after titus flip. you'll just go on being like that. all failure, no growth

[Psyche]

like, you're trying to shade the town flip wagons again to look more reasonable

you were pushing ali tho and i think most people see with the replace out that she's prob town here

you were also voting a mislim apparently psyche, saying we've been unreasonable for voting titus/furtive is the same narrative shea is trying to spin here by saying scum is "controlling" the game with the town flips and that he needs to be listened to

jesus of course scum is controlling the game. the challenge system makes it even easier than normal. also are you really scumreading shea??

[Psyche]

only saying this bc i may die but shirou is actually a natural follow-up for consideration if norwee flips as i expect
don't have much independently for a scumread though beyond articulable opinion that none of their posts clear them despite there being a lot of them
is someone gonna pretend omgus is a real tell too now

[Psyche]

it was bad that you killed any of us unless there was a pressing deadline

[Psyche]

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU'RE STILL ARGUING YOU WERE NULLREADING TITUS

again, so silly. why would i not? i clarified that it was a null read. you saying "nope" is supposed to change my mind?

[Psyche]

it was bad that you killed any of us unless there was a pressing deadline

DMWIQMDIWAFNMIAWFNIANFIWANI

IS THIS REALLY SCUM OH MY GOD IT'S SO LAMIST

i will not let you forget this post after the game

[Psyche]

you aren't voting me yet to be OMGUS but it's funny that you aren't naturally voting me if you suspect me but first trying to make it not look scummy

imo it's dumb, arrogant to vote based on relational tells wo flips. i've already read your iso closely and feel sure that if i vote for you this phase it'll be to save my own ass and only at deadline.

[Psyche]

im too grouchy yes. i miss the old psyche, the hasn't read the thread psyche, oh wait kanye is dead to me

[Psyche]

Psyche what's your hero solve

id rather be limmed than force an answer to this why do people do these prompts why am i so mad about it

[Psyche]

even just one correct read and no particiption in mislims would be a successful game for me why torment me so

[Psyche]

Note to self

Don't unvote

that's a rlly alisae move bro

[Psyche]

are you sure it's a crapshoot or do u just not feel like rereading a few isos

[Psyche]

im sorry this is hypocritical what is the cakez push about i don't even recall

[Psyche]

i just don't know if i buy "it burns my cookies that someone would deign to ask about my reads!" coming from town when he's already given like half of the prompt i'm asking him for

exactly though
i already gave you my reads

[Psyche]

Lazer Tag

Round 1 Results:

NorwegianboyEE has been Shot!
Dunnstral has been Shot!
Enchant has been Shot!

Living Players (9): Shirou, Gamma Emerald, Save the Dragons, Psyche, T-Bone, PookytheMagicalBear, Sheepssaysmeep, Thestatusquo, SirCakez

Round 2 Ends In (expired on 2023-01-31 14:45:00)

i dont understand how i'm the top wagon but have not been shot. also i forgot to shoot

[Psyche]

what if the scum team was some bullshit like STD + Enchant + Sir Cakes + NorwegianBoy

my towncase on enchant is bulletproof

[Psyche]

he posted 29 times the entire game i feel like he's posted 29 times to say he was catching up this game

:eek:
If this is accurate I would call it suspicious of Psyche
I think perpetual “I’m catching up” posts are a scumtell

but i was catching up and have caught up. a hundred pages yall cmon

[Psyche]

do it again

im happy with what i've already outlined
but if you have a question about a specific read then i'm happy to elaborate w quotes as i've already been doing for a while now

otoh have been falling behind in irl stuff
i don't think i have the time to properly resist this wagon for the next two days
and honestly it's just tedious.

[Psyche]

this "antispew" shit though is hilarious yeah go on

[Psyche]

it's not bullshit. why would i hang on reads even i understand have weak basis

i don't understand what you mean here

you had suspicious on titus and still seemed to dislike the wagon happening at all rather than *yours*

you talked like as if us flipping you would be better than flipping titus and that feels lamist to me

i think it's dumb to only be able to eliminate null reads in games w 150 pages
it means town sat around all that time and did nothing
so much has happened but everyone acts like bystanders in it all. pile blame on the limmed slot for not making content as if it those were their only options.

i don't think lamist is a real tell anyway. as if only scum could ever have motive to complain when a town is fucking up.

the sad thing imo is that when i flip you'll still think lamist is a real tell just like people are still riding on "no content" as a lim basis after titus flip. you'll just go on being like that. all failure, no growth

Like this is just not true! People thought the limmed players were scum. This reframing of 'well everyone is voting out their nulls' is just incorrect.

also, who?? i literally don't believe you.

[Psyche]

maybe i was skimming too fast but i never saw a single thought about titus's slot past like page 8 that wasn't "well she's not really here"

[Psyche]

ooh oooh ooh ok i have something

have obsessed some over how i should read that one enchant post about elo that tried to break the game. and has implied that the take contained may not be as cold as i originally thought so why not write it out? warning note that i still haven't read most of the posts in this thread.

It's definitely pro-town to outline such a strategy but otoh scum could notice the potential strategy and decide to divulge it for town points.

This alternative though requires that the scum player was thoughtful enough to identify the strategy and then presumably just as thoughtfully determined that the downsides for scum of revealing the strategy were outweighed by the upside of being the party that revealed it

Prima facie, since the strategy as outlined was so powerful, the scenario above seems hard to take seriously, leaning me toward a townread. so question to me is how firm the townread should actually be.

One interesting factor this hinges on is that firebringer really didn't do any clarification until after the public discussion. I think this assumption is reasonable primarily based my belief that he'd want to address apparent gaps in his design promptly. This belief also suggests that the team swap strategy wasn't discussed in a private thread -- at least not substantially enough for FB to take action. I feel like the strategy was apparently powerful enough that scum who'd noticed it would at least discuss a bit before bringing it up in the public thread, perhaps even actively reaching out to FB first for clarification. So the observation that FB's clarification occurred after public discussion makes me feel all the more sure that the team swap strategy wasn't proposed by scum.

This conclusion withstands consideration of some other assumptions that might seem weak on their own.

For example, one factor that might motivate scum to reveal even a powerful town strategy is if they think the strategy's discovery by the town is inevitable. If they don't think the strategy's implementation depends on whether they specifically are the ones who outlined it, they might decide to reveal it themselves in hopes of minimizing harm. If a scum player has high respect for the analytical players of someone in the player list, then maybe they'd be especially inclined to this reasoning. The problem w/ this argument is that it assumes a pattern of caution in the scum player that contradicts with FB's behavior. Cautious scum would workshop this move first with their teammates.

But what about the possibility that scum-enchant is the opposite of cautious-scum? That he detected the strategy, and then revealed it w/o much discussion with his teammates? After all, cleverness and caution don't always occur together. Some recent posts by enchant have even convinced me that he has a whimsical streak. I guess it's possible but I think I'm more whimsical than Enchant and in that situation I'd still probably talk the gambit through in my PT first, though perhaps primarily to bask in its absurdity. So I don't really read enchant as the sort of player to be so simultaneously spontaneous and focused that the issue wasn't discussed in thread and flagged by FB beforehand.

Oh but a possibility more serious: maybe FB is a slack or overloaded guy who isn't following along in realtime. He's managing like 50 different threads and mechanics, I guess. But idk. It was earlygame and reading scum pts are among the more enjoyable duties of a game moderator. So I discount the importance of that possibility.

so yeah pretty strong townread for enchant. wonder what in this thread could possibly shake it. hope everyone else is as easy to read.

on the other hand i really thought furtive was scum why am i wasting my energy when i'm dumb and permanently wrong and have an irl job i'm blowing off someone pls fix me i can't do it i have a 100 page thread to read

why i think an enchant townread is at worst worth betting the game on
to summarize, i think the timing of FB's clarification of the team swap rule substantially constrains available interpretations for enchant's outline of that strategy based around it
w/o the clarification, it's just substantive pro-town setup spec; other players have done that too but identifying less powerful potential strategies (shirou a bit later, IIRC?)
but the timing of FB's clarification seems to further evince that enchant is town because it implies that the team swap strategy wasn't discussed substantially in a scum pt before being raised publicly;
i think the strat is breaking enough that it would've been before enchant-scum opts to reveal it. costs-benefits gap is just too big

[Psyche]

in retrospect i should've also done updates about reads as i reached certain transition points in my reading. i'll take blame if we lose based on that. at time of choice not to do that i just didn't have any reads to talk about in my head.

[Psyche]

it's literally "idk" the director's cut

[Psyche]

i think i get the point of trying for a "hero solve" now
reflecting on how the reads you really like don't fit w/ ur broader-if-softer understanding of the gamestate will clarify or dispell one or the other

[Psyche]

ugh i guess ill try to read cakez

[Psyche]

pooky do you have a scumread on enchant or what

[Psyche]

sircakez's iso is just opaque
there has got to be more to mafia than this

[Psyche]

ooh, such equity, much deathtunnel

[Psyche]

I dont know for sure if cakes is scum, if norwe is scum, if people on the titus wagon were scum, but I do know that all other suspects have a LOT of equity with psyche and we NEED to KILL IT by this point

this is so boringgg. do people just not have scumreads anymore? how many more info lims until it's finally scummiest slot goes?

[Psyche]

I dont know for sure if cakes is scum, if norwe is scum, if people on the titus wagon were scum, but I do know that all other suspects have a LOT of equity with psyche and we NEED to KILL IT by this point

this is so boringgg. do people just not have scumreads anymore? how many more info lims until it's finally scummiest slot goes?

you're the scummiest slot, by a large margin

it's definitely norwee

[Psyche]

To be clear I dont think psyche is the individually scummiest slot in the game, he gets that award for how most have acted towards his wagon contextually

I gotta sleep now but I also don't know if it's impression but psyche seems to mostly pop-up when we talk about him

this is both false (i've been talked about in most of the last 50+ pages) but it's also another really dumb idea of a tell
ooh this person engaged when they're mentioned in the thread better keep an eye on

that

[Psyche]

sry for leaving
this game was cannibalizing so much of my time and even *then* i still couldn't get any momentum going
will be more careful throwing
that said, hope i was able to help give town a run for its money

[Psyche]

more careful /inning is what i meant to say

[Psyche]

In fact if Psyche hadn't started hardbussing me without any of our consent in scum PT i think we would have gotten away with me surviving until endgame. Psyche putting attention to me is what caused me to be seriously considered as the lim, not TSQ's arguments.

You might be right that an easier win might've been possible if I hadn't done that. In my mind, I believed one of us (probably me) was going to be limmed soon and figured that if I did it w/ enough apparent sincerity, then it would have really tough for anyone to complete a full solve right after. I was unaware of any agreement among the scumteam not to bus this game.