Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I was in the middle of pushing Doctor Drew when suddenly D1 was ended fue to scum powers, and then the game was compromised D2.
So now I finally get to VOTE: Doctor Drew-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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That is a really weird statement. Care to explain how you got all these townreads?In post 11, usesPython wrote: HURT: usesPython
HURT: Doctor Drew
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Enchant
HURT: Merlyn-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Fair enough. Last game it didn't matter but I think there was a change in nightmare rules which tbh I haven't looked into thoroughly just yet. Lemmie have a quick look.
HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Kyogo-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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@Mod I actually have a question about Nightmare voting: you explain the minimum and maximum of participants, but how are the actual participants chosen? Is there a target number of votes needed and then you participate?-
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Probably nothing, but if I interpret the OP correctly we can only use vig with 5 players in the nightmare. Unless actually it's 5 minimum and we get more powers with more players? In which case vig is OP.In post 17, usesPython wrote: What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Yeah, there's a new vote every game day.
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Oh okay so it's basically like how it was last game I think. Cool.In post 27, Korina wrote:In post 15, DragonEater70 wrote: Fair enough. Last game it didn't matter but I think there was a change in nightmare rules which tbh I haven't looked into thoroughly just yet. Lemmie have a quick look.
HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: KyogoThis vote is ignored, due to proposals needing at least 5 people to preserve my sanity in making VCs.
In post 16, DragonEater70 wrote: @Mod I actually have a question about Nightmare voting: you explain the minimum and maximum of participants, but how are the actual participants chosen? Is there a target number of votes needed and then you participate?The minimum amount of players needed each night for the Nightmare is five, with the maximum number of participants allowed in the Nightmare being however many players are left alive. The participants are chosen via a vote a la Coalition style, where people submit a list of names, (at least five, up to however many are left alive), and players are allowed to either vote for an existing proposal, or create their own proposal. An example proposal would be:
HURT: Korina, Maruchan, Oclaxian Empire, T-Bone, Vex Vience.
Someone can then either vote those same players, and agree to the proposal, or add their own proposal to the list of proposals. If a player is confirmed in any means, they are not required to be added to future proposals, and the minimum number of players needed to be included in a proposal is reduced by one, to account for the fact out of the five needed players, there is already however many confirmed. An example involving a proposal with a confirmed player in the Nightmare (Korina):
HURT: Maruchan, Oclaxian Empire, T-Bone, Vex Vience
The above is valid, provided one player is already confirmed to run the Nightmare.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 26, Aureal wrote: I'm going to have to figure out what this nightmare thing is at some point, aren't I? Sigh.
Um okay now that mod clarified I think I can give an ELI5 style explanation (since I played last game):
Every day we nominate players which we trust to run the "nightmare". The nightmare is basically a PT that has extra powers, and lasts for one night. So for example, they can choose to collectively vig someone, or to grant a one-shot invention to someone.
The Nightmare PT is only open for one night though, and then we get a new vote the following day for which players we want on it.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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ty!In post 31, Korina wrote:In post 22, DragonEater70 wrote:
Probably nothing, but if I interpret the OP correctly we can only use vig with 5 players in the nightmare. Unless actually it's 5 minimum and we get more powers with more players? In which case vig is OP.In post 17, usesPython wrote: What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?Fuck, I thought I fixed all the typographical errors in the OP. This will be fixed to say "5 or more players" momentarily.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I keep trying to post something about mech and keep getting ninja'd so I just gave up. Let's do something game advancing.
There's not much right now but I am getting town vibes from Aureal, and slight townleans from Python and Titus. Not so much on std and Abnegation. I'm still trying to understand Abnegation's claim though.
VOTE: Abnegation
Do you wanna explain the rationale behind the claim?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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EBWOPIn post 37, DragonEater70 wrote: I keep trying to post something about mech and keep getting ninja'd so I just gave up. Let's do something game advancing.
There's not much right now but I am getting town vibes from Aureal, and slight townleans from Python and Titus. Not so much on std and Abnegation,though I haven't seen anything really scummy from them either. Unless you count that weird claim from Abnegation. Still trying to understand that.
VOTE: Abnegation
Do you wanna explain the rationale behind the claim?-
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I dunno, I just saw your post and started working me old brain very hard trying to figure out if it's a real claim or a softclaim or what. But I guess the simplest explanation is it's just a random page 1 claim, I guess.In post 40, Abnegation wrote: lol you have reads? how does anyone have reads at this point?
why would you assume there is a rationale behind my claim? what reason do you have to think that?
And yeah I don't have SOLID READS, but I do have vibes. And if we don't start voting people and disucssing vibes and reads we're not gonna get anywhere. I will UNVOTE: though, because I really don't have a scum read on you rn. Just null af.
But seriously we need to have some real content and more people here.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Okay you can be town too. I guess scum just hasn't posted yet.In post 42, Abnegation wrote:
yeah exactly, i'm just a law-abiding scum mason.In post 41, usesPython wrote:
If you ask a scum mason if they're a scum mason they have to tell you, it's like the lawIn post 39, Save The Dragons wrote: my guess is it's a joke
HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Abnegation
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Titus
pedit: I know you were town, I would've RVS voted Empathice who was scum but they are not here so I had to go for you-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In all seriousness, I'm actually looking forward to play with you and I think you have good reads (or at least good townreads) probably.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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First, I don't think this game qualifies as normal.pedit: forgot about inventions being normal-restricted.
Second, last game there was an innocent child + cult, and if the IC was culted then they would reveal as cult instead of town when their power was activated.-
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VOTE: BiancoIn post 64, biancospino wrote:
No, no, no, you need to hurt 5 players for it to count.In post 62, camelCasedSnivy wrote: HURT: usesPython
vote for your lim and your proposal is the way to go
HURT: bianco, Python, camelCase, Drew, Alianna
VOTE: camelCase
vote for your lim and your proposal is the way to go-
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So we MUST support certain proposals rather than use slight variations? That's a bummer.In post 83, Korina wrote:A player is confirmed if they are in a proposal that hits majority. In the event that nobody hits majority, the proposal with the most votes will be automatically accepted. In the event no proposal has any votes, or there is a tie, random.org will decide the Runners.-
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I feel kinda left out here.In post 81, Ranger wrote: HEAL: prior proposal
HURT: Ranger, usesPython, Doctor Drew, Save The Dragons, Abnegation, Aureal, Merlyn, camelCasedSnivy, Titus, biancospino-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I mainly didn't understand what you meant by this post. Are you nominating the entire playerlist? Or only people who posted? Or?In post 103, Radical Rat wrote:
Reposting since everyone seems to have ignored itIn post 91, Radical Rat wrote: For D1 at least, is there any reason the nightmare SHOULDN'T include everyone?
HURT: All of the above (Korina please don't make me type it all out-
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Um, would you like to contribute more to the game? Like, an opinion or a vote or something?In post 112, sheepsaysmeep wrote: sheepsaysmeep-
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They were Botanical Rat together with Bianco, IIRC.In post 114, Doctor Drew wrote:
Ok, I get that.In post 113, Radical Rat wrote:
My thinking is that in an ideal world we would have all Town and no scum in the nightmare, but since D1 reads are... not usually great... This way we can at least guarantee all of the Town gets in, AND we have more meaningful content to form reads going into D2.In post 111, Doctor Drew wrote: Also is it really best to hurt everyone?
I only like hurting those I love.
I want more people who were in the first game, and smarter to the mech side of things than me, to offer their opinion though.
I forget Rat, were you in the first game?
As a player of last game I can say that my gut instinct likes the idea of giving the 5-7 towniest people a PT to plan things without scum's knowledge (I mean last time we got 6 town and 1 third party in it, and it had a very town-favorable outcome), BUT usesPython has found a way to break the invention thingy so that it acts as a a global pseudo-cop (by gifting IC), and I don't see any way scum can play around it by being in the PT (except if they kill the IC target but then hopefully it's the scummiest player anyway, and then the scum nightkill becomes a town-controlled vigshot which ia nice).
So overall I can support either having 7 towniest or everyone being in it.-
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In post 150, Morning Tweet wrote: I like Dragon again for taking the 5x run the nightmare vote on the first page seriously
VOTE: Aureal
Bianco playing not carefully is towny I think
Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely
i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all
Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really
First, please explain the Aureal vote, thank you very much.In post 150, Morning Tweet wrote: I like Dragon again for taking the 5x run the nightmare vote on the first page seriously
VOTE: Aureal
Bianco playing not carefully is towny I think
Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely
i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all
Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really
Second, I completely disagree about Bianco. Their posting is just filled with random, thrown-out-in-the-open comments that serve absolutely no purpose, and a jokey (I guess) vote at a point where serious votes should be made. I read this as scum.
Also I don't believe you about not being a cult leader. Please cult me tonight.-
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I agree but the way I see it, it would also be counter-town to vig with EVERYONE in the nightmare, since it will be basically an extremely rushed day phase, without any additional info except the flip. Without said I don't think we're gonna vig tonight, and I like the IC plan so I'm fine with HURT: everyone as long as we only IC really scummy people (otherwise we just tell scum to kill townie people and waste our power).In post 153, Rautherdir wrote: Using the vig as a second kill seems... too easy. There's almost certainly going to be something that prevents it if scum are aware of who the kill would be.-
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Oh I think mod asked that it will be on a seperate line.
HURT: everyone-
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It's not impossible, we had a towncore of 5 town and a third party last game.In post 155, usesPython wrote:
It's achievable but Activated IC/Bulletproof IC inventions are strongerIn post 150, Morning Tweet wrote: i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all
Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really
If we're handing out IC inventions then it's theoretically optimal to exclude scum so they don't get shot but getting a correct towncore of 7 people's probably impossible so yeah better to just put in everyone-
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I actually believe last time it was a factional ability? So yeah I would recommend against that.In post 156, Rautherdir wrote: On a similar note, cult leader enabler feels too easy. I doubt it would work as effectively as we would hope. Or maybe it would and Korina didn't account for it? The vig definitely was likely accounted for in balance though.
NOTABLY
If cult have recruit as a factional ability that would side step enablers I believe.-
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I will probably be more active tomorrow, but just poppin' in to say that I townlean Kyoko's entrance. While giving reads in itself is not necessarily town-indicative, their reads feel natural, rather than fake or sheepy.-
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Your saying that made me tr youIn post 253, Titus wrote:
Why did you hurt vote me here when I already said I wasn't a strong choice?In post 47, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay you can be town too. I guess scum just hasn't posted yet.In post 42, Abnegation wrote:
yeah exactly, i'm just a law-abiding scum mason.In post 41, usesPython wrote:
If you ask a scum mason if they're a scum mason they have to tell you, it's like the lawIn post 39, Save The Dragons wrote: my guess is it's a joke
HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Abnegation
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Titus
pedit: I know you were town, I would've RVS voted Empathice who was scum but they are not here so I had to go for you-
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Wassup, I have some more time now so I'm gonna do a catchup.
I like this idea.In post 281, usesPython wrote: Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?
Also this one.In post 285, usesPython wrote: I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare
HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation
Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now
HURT: Python's suggestion
In post 275, Rautherdir wrote: Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.
These posts kinda feel to me like scum!Rauther from Mini 2297 (AKA Conception). @Abnegation, Drew, Bianco, do you agree?In post 277, Rautherdir wrote: The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.
VOTE: Rauther
(but still FoSing Bianco)
IDK if it's actually scummy or am just annoyed, but I don't like this post (edit: nor the followup post with no content).In post 305, WhemeStar wrote: I forgot this game exists oopsie daisey
This push feels townie. So plus town points for Rat.In post 311, Radical Rat wrote:
I agree with this. If WhemeStar shows up, I'd be down to wagon though.In post 269, camelCasedSnivy wrote: what would we get out of wagoning someone who is just gonna get prodded and replaced? (because they haven't posted)
In the meantime, consider Rautherdir. You'll have to read the mech talk, but like. His contributions to the discussion have been focused around finding any excuse possible to not create Bulletproof ICs, in a manner beyond the expected concerns about legality.
In particular, I'd highlight the repeated suggestion of sacrificing not only Bulletproof but ANY useful modifier in favor of a day restriction that we know would be irrelevant when the ICs are just open to being shot anyway. That's not just a bad idea, it's a malicious one, especially when so many of his other suggestions are just ways to make a worse IC.
Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.In post 318, camelCasedSnivy wrote: python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list
biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever
also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own
I like your boldness. +town.In post 325, KatyKimFanClub wrote: I notice a lot of talk about finding trustworthy people to put in the Nightmare. I would like to say that I am town, thus feel free to put me in there, coach(es).
Agreed RE Abnegation.In post 333, sheepsaysmeep wrote: depressingly null then, maybe even slightly wolfy
the iso is fairly devoid of like original contribution, I just liked the confident tone lol
Who are your scumreads?In post 368, Abnegation wrote: also, rat and python are people who i will probably just throw in the townbin and not look back.
Oh, really? I'm kinda sad to hear that because I try not to focus on looking towny, and focus on reads instead. But I guess it's not workingIn post 378, usesPython wrote:
It's not "Dragon's talking in this game like town!Dragon normally does, therefore Dragon's town", it's "town!Dragon sounds LAMIST as hell normally so tone-reading him as scum off of that is a bad read"In post 375, KatyKimFanClub wrote: I don't get all the people saying it's town!dragon. Any links to read where he does this as town? In fact, 43 and 47 seems like a specific evolution of this trope to make him look towny. Not really a scumread but more of a at this point.
I normally try to avoid questioning people's townreads on me (okay, that's a lie), but I really wanna know something:In post 357, Doctor Drew wrote:
Eater of Dragons, First of His Name, Breaker of Scum Reads......shall be town for now.In post 356, Abnegation wrote:
think that was kirigiri, and i will third the fact that this is just how he talks.In post 355, usesPython wrote:
idk who said it feels like town!dragoneater from a previous game but I'll second the fact that this is just how he talksIn post 328, sheepsaysmeep wrote: ok I read the game
dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question
Do you actually tr me or are you just sheeping the other guys?-
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I like the fact that you are SRing Morning Tweet for her takes - I agree they don't feel very thought out or townie. Also, she's lurking which I think is off her town meta (though I can't say for sure because she was third party last time we played).In post 328, sheepsaysmeep wrote: ok I read the game
dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question
ranger - I think they are lightly villagery. their first readlists aligned a lotttt with what I was feeling in early pages.
radical rat - I like their push that rauth is too obsessed with finding the IC alternatives. like it is a just a good push. it actually makes me feel more RR!town than rauth!wolf; im slightly skeptical of it as making rauth wolf because it's almost too egregious (python saying "I'll policy the next person to talk about mech" and then rauth keeps talking about mech feels like something wolves might want to avoid ??)
usespython - when I was just lurking they felt like 99% obvtown on vibes. when I read through it's more meh but still prob just town
morning tweet - gut says slightly scummy. I just thought her takes were mid in 150 I was not feeling them lol
Titus - if I had to force a read their vibe fits with what I understand of their town meta lol but meh
Kyoko - if this is their first time trying the weird scum meter thing (if I didnt misunderstand) then I'd honestly give a couple town points lmao. otherwise very meh
snivy - feels pretty wolf. in general their early posting was the most stiff. treatment of ranger feels like buddying ("wow you're doing readlists every post?! that's so game-advancing and towny" for something I think is fairly clearly predetermined playstyle).
abnegation - my gut says this is what I think newer-player villagers look like
Please give us your thoughts on Abnegation.
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I was also surprisedIn post 399, Abnegation wrote:
it took me that long to altslip?In post 398, Alianna wrote: i think it means we can add a player to the nightmare even after the people in the initial proposal have been confirmed.
Nah that's 16.In post 400, Abnegation wrote: 17 pages might be the longest i've made it.-
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^^In post 401, usesPython wrote:
to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC inventionIn post 396, Abnegation wrote: HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger
basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.-
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First, there's a difference in vibes/meta. usesPython is KNOWN for talking about mech, always. Look at their completed games, it's kinda crazy sometimes the mech talk they do. But in this specific game I get a villagery vibe from their posts, even if they are mostly about mech. And they are actually going somewhere with the mech and trying to figure things out, which is townie in my eyes.In post 404, camelCasedSnivy wrote:
Python at the beginning didn't give me any reads, and then proceeded to go into that 8 page long discussion on inventions, while claiming they had reads. Rauth was a part of that too, but apparently its only scummy when they do it?? Unless there's something else to them than what I scumread them forIn post 402, DragonEater70 wrote:
Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.In post 318, camelCasedSnivy wrote: python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list
biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever
also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own
On the other hand, Rauther's posts feel like they are talking about mech so they have something to talk about and are not lurking. This is scummy. You should be having plenty to talk about as town, you don't need to force yourself to talk (IMO).
Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:
In post 285, usesPython wrote: I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare
HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation
Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now-
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I actually forgot to quote the middle post as well, whoops. Lemmie just quote the whole thing and then I'll answer:In post 409, Abnegation wrote: what about those posts specifically reminds you of it?
In post 275, Rautherdir wrote: Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.In post 276, Rautherdir wrote: I mean public gunsmith is useful, but I think a lot less then just. Trying to do a smaller nightmare and doing a different ability. Hmm.
HEAL: Radical RatIn post 277, Rautherdir wrote: The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.
Basically, what reminds me of Conception is the fact that they are kinda rambling to themself about mech rather than actually engaging with other players? And second guessing themself?
Compare with Conception:
Spoiler: random rambling about what 'Bendediction' is
Spoiler: Random rambling about their role-
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Welp sorry I have to prod dodge, tomorrow you'll get some good content out of me hopefully since I will have more time, but a VERY quick and superficial look through pages 18-19-20 says my reads aren't that different and I still rank Rauther and Bianco as scummiest. Thanks, good night, cya tomorrow.-
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Thanks.In post 1154, Korina wrote: Not seeking replacement for Flea or DE at this point because I’ve heard from both - giving them 24 hours before replacement due to deadline extensions and MS issues.
I'm really sorry for not being active earlier but I was kinda exhausted IRL the last few days and couldn't bring myself to read everything that happened. I'm not going to catch up on EVERYTHING, at least not for now, but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages. Also if there had been any claims etc. please direct me to find them.-
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Okay, I thought this is what's gonna happen, but now I found myself going earlier and earlier in an attempt to decipher the Ranger and Kyoko 1v1. This is going to take a while.In post 1293, DragonEater70 wrote:
I'm not going to catch up on EVERYTHING, at least not for now, but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages.-
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Who do you think might be a good lim beside me?In post 1140, Ranger wrote:
I have a very strong gut scumread on DragonEater70.
This read has no objective reasoning, and even has some doubts to it. Others insist this is him as town, and the votes supporting the wagon are not promising.
Yet the gut read remains. I can't exactly make the gut read magically vanish. It's an inconvenience, yet it's there. I believe he's a good flip. I have no case beyond "trust my gutread", so I don't expect to realistically be followed. This won't stop me from continuing to call him scum, and continuing to provide reasons for my other scumreads.
I know this probably means less coming from me, but I do want to just say my own viewpoint:In post 1140, Ranger wrote:
This I can comment on.In post 1125, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote: Its more just a random vote dropped on a typical lhf regardless if he is town or scum.
I don't think DragonEater70 fits as low-hanging fruit. In my experience, he's a better player than that.
He's largely absent this game, which isn't ai imo. Still, he can get widely townread fairly easily when town and is far from an easy mislim. Were he actually an easy mislim, then a town player having a strong gut scumread on him, voting him, and dissuading players from voting a town mislim, would likely have gathered more support than it did.
IDK if I'm "limbait", I have only been mislimmed in one game out of the maybe 10 games I've completed (haven't counted), but I do think I am VERY easy to scumread. Like I think out of these 10 town games, there's been only two games where I wasn't HEAVILY scumread by various townplayers early on (and also later on). One of them being Weird Dreams I, and the other one being Team Mafia, where I was mislimmed anyway for pointing out that I wasn't being scumread as much as usual.
So I can understand where Kyoko is coming from, about saying that voting me is "low hanging fruit", even though I agree with Ranger that I am not usually a D1 lim.
HOWEVER, I do think Ranger was pretty townie later on (I'm gonna go back and find that post), so not voting there now.-
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Okay it was actually earlier. Anyhow I really like this post and although Ranger was mostly null until now, this posts single-handedly places her in medium-high tier townread. I mean it's just really townie. This is exactly the kind of posts scum just DON'T want to see posted in the game.In post 1081, Ranger wrote:
It is easy, digging unnecessarily, and anti-town.In post 1042, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:Now tell me is this analysis "easy", "digging unnecessary" or "anti town"?
It's a meaningless nothingness push, and still contains the same logical flaws previously provided.
If I am scum, then you don't have an explanation for the signaling. One could exist, yet the burden is on you the accuser to bring forward evidence I did, because I've stated it was me having fun.
If I am a traitor, then it was blatant signaling, in a way you've consistently said you believe I'm not. If I were, it would imply Doctor Drew as scum, leaving him the focus, yet you didn't pursue him; you kept your focus on me.
If I am a 3p, then I would be a 3p who is somehow tied to Doctor Drew. If so, then Doctor Drew should still be the focus, yet you didn't pursue him.
If I am town, and I am, then the entire pursuit is pointless and meaningless. The goal of town is to eliminate all threats to them. Regardless of how "weird", regardless of how "strange", the alleged signaling is, if I am town (and I am), then focusing on the supposed signaling isnot furthering the town win condition.
You've written a bunch of words to justify yourself. Yet none which address the fundamental issue with the push being you're not following it to any of its possible logical conclusions.
I've said I'm town.
I've said I've no information on Doctor Drew whatsoever, and he isn't in my role PM at all.
I've said my puns were me having fun.
You've been focused on this since getting into the game, yet given both my statements and the lack of following the points to the logical conclusion, your push provides no tangible benefit. It's a distraction. It gives something for you to easily appear to give effort to, because putting time into a nothingness point is easy.
Yeah, sure is. I've rather extensively laid out why I believe your mindset is scum trying to appear town.In post 1042, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:You and me both know that no action or reaction in a mafia game is a town or scum tell on its own. everyone can fake anything or be real about anything at any time. Its about seeing the mind set that's behind those actions and reactions and to see if its used for solve or not.
Your stated reads are largely consensus reads. Your 'insights' into various topics are easy to give without actually providing a tangible benefit to the town. You're not following your pushes to their logical conclusions. You're demonstrating knowledge you shouldn't have. You're continuing to push the same narrative, despite posts from multiple users calling your reasoning out and pointing out the flaws within.
Subjectively, I know you're not furthering the town's wincon with your Ranger push, yet even objectively the flaws within demonstrate even not knowing my alignment, your push on mejust isn't good. Also subjectively, I've seen the pushes you've made as town and I always understood why you made them, because there was logic being followed to an ultimate conclusion; here, that's absent.
I'd say that demonstrates your actions are more likely from scum.
Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).In post 1101, Ranger wrote:
Let me clarify.In post 1054, Titus wrote:While I vehemently object to the argument of emulation as it looks like an excuse to deny meta
Every* scum player has at least some passing awareness of their play as town.
Every* scum player has at least some passing effort to mimic their townplay.
Every* scum player still has clear town/scum metas, despite the above. Because,
Every* scum player's efforts to mimic their townplay is imperfect, for varying reasons.
*not actually every; this is me simplifying to make a point clearer
My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is notdespitemeta.
My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is in partbecauseof meta.
My point is Kyoko Kirigiri's trying to mimic her towngame. As this is an accusation, the burden of proving it's an imitation and not the real thing does lie on me.
I've provided why I believe it's the imitation and not the real thing. The consensus takes, along with not following logic to its natural conclusion, and making a push which provides no benefit to the town. Kyoko Kirigiri's content is one gigantic effort to appear town, yet is giving nothing demonstrating actual town thought.-
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ThanksIn post 1294, usesPython wrote:
You picked the worst 5 pages to catch up on lol.In post 1293, DragonEater70 wrote: but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages.
For setup stuff Drew was forcibly placed into the nightmare by a day ability, Drew claims to have nothing to do with it, Ranger claims to be town, and Ranger does not have any information on Drew from her role PM
That, by the way, was my first scumgame on this site and a nightmare.In post 1292, usesPython wrote:
That game just finished so can you talk more about this now?In post 372, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.
Also I've replaced out due to lack of time and then thought it was a good idea to join another game and here I am, not having posted for several days due to the same luck of time I had before.-
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We can vote for 6, since DD is already in (and would count as one of the seven).In post 1304, Radical Rat wrote: We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option-
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Okay, I'm right now on this ISO (I got a bit derailed though), will post my conclusion and catch up from this post when I finish.In post 1301, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).-
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Just a question (still mid ISO): what is a lawyer? I couldn't find any 3rd party or town role called a lawyer, only scum, but they wouldn't have any reason to signal.In post 906, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
urghhIn post 561, Ranger wrote: Being honest, Doctor Drew is playing as he does when scum.
Were I unwilling to provide benefit of the doubt, he'd nearly top my scumreads.
I actually do believe him though; idk why. Gut I guess.
like... Ranger should be a lawyer. I don't think this is a traitor potential anymore, and this is just not town
UNVOTE:
if this is true I think this automatically make drew almost conf scum but I actually didn't see him do anything game-wise till this point beside calling ship turn there with a read so I need to do some iso dives when I'm done.-
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(Also I admit to getting derailed again and reading stuff about Hong Kong when I was supposed to be ISOing Kyoko. Bad Dragon.)-
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Oh okay I can see how Kyoko got that read, though for the life of me I can't understand why she would push it?-
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Okay I tried to make a huge post with a lot of quotes of Kyoko but it looked monstrous so instead I'll just summarize my ISO and go back to having a life outside of this site:
- I initially liked the first few posts where she gives 0.1 and 0.3 townpoints etc. However on a second read, It feels off because it's not her town meta.
- I know it's silly, but I actually have an urge to scumread the fact that she's not roleplaying as a detective, like she did in her previous towngames on this account.
- I do agree with most of her reads, including the fact that initially the pun on Drew's name looked quite forced (I mean it still looks forced, but I don't think Ranger is scum for it). So I guess that's +town
- However, I did not like the fact that she said TWO SEPERATE TIMES that Rauther was scummy (which they were), but didn't vote or investigate him (which is very unlike her).
- I also like the fact that she went into a big 1v1 with Ranger and was really consistent with her reasoning.
- However I do not like the fact that I'm actually having a headache trying to understand what the hell she and Ranger are talking about half the time. It feels like they are both twisting each other's words. And they are posting huge wallposts and the entire point of each wallpost that either is posting is saying "oh but I already explained why I disagree with your wallpost" so I have to look earlier to see what they refer to and I can't find it in all the wallposts and it's honestly destroying my brain to bits.
So for now I agree with these two posts:
In post 1090, usesPython wrote: Can we just IC Ranger/Kyoko I'm feeling my will to play mafia drain with every wall that gets posted
-A
I think we will have plenty of content from both Kyoko and Ranger later on to form reads off of.In post 1089, usesPython wrote: I'm checking out from this wall war
VOTE: Merlyn
Do something interesting
-A
However for the time being, Ranger is townie and Kyoko is slightly scummy for meta reasons, even though her posts are fucking amazing and honestly her reads are spot on.-
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I'm going to be extremely busy now so hopefully I'll pop in this evening or sometime tomorrow to check out why people are (or were?) voting Merlyn, and catch up on the recent pages.-
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Actually nvm.
@mod, please give me V/LA for until Thursday evening.
Bolded for visibility.
- θLast edited by Korina on Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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(I will still try to pop in but it's definitely not something I can promise)-
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Sorry for not being here for 6 out of the last 7 days or something, I should be fully back today with no more prods.
I just checked the latest VC, and a whole bunch of people I townread are voting for Merlyn, so time to find out what's up with that.
Will have a short read and then post some more.-
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I'm intrigued.In post 1578, usesPython wrote:
What do you think our scumcase on Wheme is? As a hint: You and DragonEater should have the easiest time figuring this case out
It's lurking, right?-
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I've read like 2.5 pages and a lot of quotes within quotes within quotes. So I don't necessarily have all the context, but here's where I'm at:
I like this post and it's quite towny. Also, I agree with Ranger's take and will probably vote Merlyn in my next post (after I make sure I don't accidentally hammer).In post 1266, Abnegation wrote: so i've finally figured out what i think about thedrewpuns and the nightmare placement, but it is unfortunately a very boring conclusion.
the puns are probably just puns. even if it looks like signaling, it's a reach to speculate that a very specific 3p role (or a scum traitor) both exists and would signal in such an obvious-looking way. the way it was done just seems like it was bound to get noticed by more people than just the intended target.
i still think drew being placed in the nightmare is +town for him. we've established it's most likely a scum ability, and i really don't think scum would be that desperate to get their partner in there that early, to the point that it would be worth drawing all that attention there. unless we're in multiball, in which case the solution is to read him off his play, and i read him as town right now so nothing changes. perhaps it was just done to sow conflict and suspicion, it did a pretty good job creating a bunch of (imo) useless arguing.
i am sympathetic to the idea that scum is letting the town eat itself. that could be a lot of people though.
still have no clue who to vote, but i liked this answer from ranger so i will probably just sheep it for the time being.
VOTE: merlynIn post 1071, Ranger wrote:
Sure. Merlyn is THE slot I'm talking about in exploiting Radical Rat. It doesn't display well in iso, yet most of her content is directly reflective of what RR's discussing at the time. Merlyn's given no content I've thought town, looks like scum, and has taken stances which I feel are taking advantage of town accusing town. Merlyn's contributions have been lackluster, and when the town's had its more lighthearted moments, Merlyn's contributions to them has felt forced. Both her hop onto Rauth as well as her hop off Rauth were suspect.In post 991, Abnegation wrote:did you ever talk about that merlyn sr? if not, could you?
In post 1547, Kyoko Kirigiri wrote:
secondly about the way this post is written, I feel like the analyzing is clear and from a solving mindset but I just feel a tiny bit uneasy about the way you put things together that implies somewhat if ranger was only posting puns = ranger is town kinda vibe which is a logical fallacy. same also with your drew read. Like I agree with the solve that it might not best practice to focus there anymore and I'm actually feeling that vibe as well, but I just dont get to the conclusions you want me to reach with the assumptions that premises of that push were wrong (that the signaling and nightmare force were related). I just think at very best this puts both at null - which is were I had them both for mech reasons. and IMO ranger is a bit scummy individually regardless of that talk.
This doesn't feel like town mindset to me - it feels like Kyoko is simultaneously trying to agree with (to gain credit) and criticize (to form a future avenue of attack) Abnormality's (:D) post, instead of just posting their sincere thoughts. This is usually something that scum does.
In post 1656, WhemeStar wrote: Hey ranger why do you think tbis is my scum gameReal question but why do you consider scumreading you a scummy move?
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Well all I can say is it's a lot easier to make a single post with a clue than to read like 10-20 pages of mafia and try to analyze what's going on. But, I do understand why it could look scummy.In post 1770, usesPython wrote:
Lurking with cross-site activity (You were playing codenames)In post 1768, DragonEater70 wrote:
I'm intrigued.In post 1578, usesPython wrote:
What do you think our scumcase on Wheme is? As a hint: You and DragonEater should have the easiest time figuring this case out
It's lurking, right?-
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easier = less time consuming, at a period when I had very little time due to IRL reasons.-
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VOTE: Merlyn
And now I gotta figure out what's with the new Wheme wagon. This is great.-
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Can somebody explain it to me? Is everyone suddenly voting Wheme just because Ranger changed her vote? What's going on?
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Yoooo, master of Codenames.In post 1778, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
Hi I'm the new MerlynIn post 1767, DragonEater70 wrote: Sorry for not being here for 6 out of the last 7 days or something, I should be fully back today with no more prods.
I just checked the latest VC, and a whole bunch of people I townread are voting for Merlyn, so time to find out what's up with that.
Will have a short read and then post some more.
Tell me, are you town or scum?
And a bit more seriously, did you read anything at all so far?-
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I mean you are not wrong. Too much mech.In post 1766, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: Well I read the first ten pages and it was very boring-
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Any scumreads?
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