Datisi's University [game over!]

[furtiveglance]

How do you do, fellow psychologists

I've diagnosed those voting me with the unfortunate psychological problem of being wrong

I'll return with more psychological insights

[furtiveglance]

Can I be wrong too?

VOTE: Furtive

You've fallen for my reverse psychology I see

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

is that actually the only thing you want to interact with so far?

Do you understand what it means - what kind of read it expresses?

[furtiveglance]

Greetings, everyone, I'll be fully transparent with this:

I'm setting my studying to 0% today.

Call this anti-town as much as you wish, suspicious if you prefer. Fair. The scum points mechanic is powerful; I'm aware of the risks.

I've strong reasons for doing so. By D4, you'll know why.

I've ~reasons~. Trust my scumhunting skills.

i feel like if we're going to trust scumhunting skills then could just set to 100% and ya know, find the scums,

but eh, i don't have whatever information you have regardless so it's meaningless to discuss

Town points to this

This looks like quite a superficial joke to me, why the points?

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

is that actually the only thing you want to interact with so far?

Do you understand what it means - what kind of read it expresses?

she’s roleplaying as Dusa from the acclaimed video game hades and using greek myth references to explain her reads

Do you have any thoughts on ina or ranger or me

I'll leave Ranger for now

You and ina are both talking a lot, haven't got a read yet

Also, what does Dusa mean by calling you a son of Zeus?

[furtiveglance]

This looks like quite a superficial joke to me, why the points?

I don't know what you mean by superficial. It was a town mindset response to the strategy proposed.

No, it was a sardonic remark about Ranger's claim of being good at scumhunting.

[furtiveglance]

so...

anyone have any guesses as to how the third party might work here?

this setup is probably deranged so my guess is it's at least a serial killer

As a reformed (former) Datisi 3p enthusiast, I can chime in that I was a SK in the Cafe.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive, been too long.....like, a couple months? Lol

I was hoping our story together did not come to an end.

You finally saw scum me, was it all you'd dreamed of?

[furtiveglance]

oh man come on, what the fuck? why are there 6 pages already?

has there been a statistical analysis done on this kind of post

It was clearly meant for the scum PT.

[furtiveglance]

I've played with gimmicky scum and gimmicky town, I think the difference is how seriously they take the game with their posts

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

furtive, how would you say that you approach the early game as town?

I post at random intervals or if I have a thought about something, or if someone asks me something. I don't usually vote until I see something particularly egregious.

[furtiveglance]

Oh Titus is the one who agreed with me about Aristeia isn't she? I will probably pick one of the two to like. Whichever one can teach me hairstyles!

Just shave it off, best choice I ever made.

That's a bald choice.

[furtiveglance]

This looks like quite a superficial joke to me, why the points?

I don't know what you mean by superficial. It was a town mindset response to the strategy proposed.

No, it was a sardonic remark about Ranger's claim of being good at scumhunting.

no it wasn't? it was commentary on the fact that ranger claimed something and said she would be studying 0% of the time and such and to trust in her scumhunting when trusting in one's scumhunting would logically mean to trust them to find scums via dayplay

which i don't really trust in my own ability to do so thus why i asked everyone to come be towny as it makes it significantly easier

anyway do you think this means something for fire assassin's alignment or for my alignment or ..?

Not really - do you think it's a serious inconsistency on Ranger's behalf?

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

furtive, how would you say that you approach the early game as town?

I post at random intervals or if I have a thought about something, or if someone asks me something. I don't usually vote until I see something particularly egregious.

But you haven't really expressed many reads at this point. It seems like all you're doing is asking clarifying questions. What are you conclusions based on those clarifying questions?

I think I've asked 2 questions so far. 1 hasn't been answered yet. The other one I didn't expect to get an instant read from the answer, it was just for my own understanding.

How many reads have you expressed? Or do you just want to ask me questions...

[furtiveglance]

Dusa, can you explain what the demigod stuff means? I think it's the only thing I don't understand in the thread so far.

furtive, how would you say that you approach the early game as town?

I post at random intervals or if I have a thought about something, or if someone asks me something. I don't usually vote until I see something particularly egregious.

But you haven't really expressed many reads at this point. It seems like all you're doing is asking clarifying questions. What are you conclusions based on those clarifying questions?

Something about this post just irks me.
The way the question is asked, perhaps?

It seems like someone who knows Furtive is townie but trying to just get the feeling of stances to better idea of where furtive is.

The question i have to that theory is why scum Sail would want to know that instead of just doing pushing on them, this could be a queing it up but it also doesn't feel like it.

Maybe its just genuine question? I am very fence sitting this now.
Ill take another look at Sail posts.

Nope, you're almost exactly right! I skimmed through furtive's past few town and scumgames and his play in this game is completely different than his past few scumgames, but it's also not exactly aligned with his towngames. I got the vibes that furtive is a disengaged townie who's trying to get his bearings HOWEVER I was not

totally sure

about that, so I wanted to ask him a few questions to see where he is.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but obviously I did have concerns with the way you were approaching Further. But this response by you does make a bit more sense, and I get it if you have never played with him before

Fun fact, I always would scum read him, yet he was always town. Then once I let my guard down a bit, boom.....he is scum. At least the next game I helped with his mis elim, made me feel like the ship was righted lol(i was scum that game).

Love ya Furt haha

Which game? I died to poison in Demon Slayer if that's what you're thinking of

And Sail, yeah I'm town good read congrats

I'll vote soon. I think Drew's town so probably will support another wagon

[furtiveglance]

For me Drew's towngame is a lot more earnest and serious than scumgame, he mostly memes as scum I seem to remember.

[furtiveglance]

When Player A is arguing with Player B that Player B is mafia, they're doing it to convince the people watching, not Player B.

It's weird how Ari keeps saying that JJ wants to convince her specifically that she's mafia.

That's true, but I don't think it's a great scum tactic if that's what you're implying.

[furtiveglance]

I'm gonna vote osuka. Their posting has had a strange charisma/energy that feels like it could be put on.


And with 402, it looks quite uncharitable to me about Dusa, who has actually given a lot of reads and comments about other players, if you look past the gimmick.

VOTE: osuka

[furtiveglance]

alot of this thi

I'm gonna vote osuka. Their posting has had a strange charisma/energy that feels like it could be put on.

why is this scum indicative tho? like sure i'll agree that to some extent it is probably put on

but why does that seem more likely to come from a scums to you?

I usually associate people writing in a performative way with scum, because that seems to be the pattern. Unless it's an obvious gimmick, like Dusa is doing, I expect town players to post fairly naturally.

[furtiveglance]

other than dusa posts do you have any thoughts on content instead of performativeness?

I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I'm not sure if this is exactly what I was talking about, but I'll take this as a question about writing style, playing a character, performative posting etc.

If you're saying that osuka is the kind of player that plays a bit of a character all the time, in a similar way to someone like HEM maybe, then I'll take that as a counter to my point about what I saw as fake confidence/bravado in their posting.

But my point still remains about Dusa, and how osuka seemed to be expecting a level of posting from Dusa of all people that I don't think many players in the game have met, including osuka themself.

[furtiveglance]

7 pages in,
Titus/Fire assassin town
…..I thought I’d have more people vaguely town but not really.

Aristeia and furtive are in a weird feelings pile.

Dann is also in a weird feelings pile but separate. Like I think they follow a similar line to fire assassin. In the way they approached a weak scumread off a gut ping and backed off but while I could see it as townie for either one, danns felt like it could more easily come from scum not having the leverage to make a push solidify.

Not that scum needs actual justification.

Am I an enigma, RC? What are your feelings for me?

[furtiveglance]

First feeling? Probably scum.

That is a weird feeling

[furtiveglance]

Greetings

[furtiveglance]

the Dann townread feels like a read for the sake of a read

to be honest I'm feeling that with a number of the town reads on me this game and it's making me paranoid

right, like I guess to distill my point explicitly

let's say you're town and you have someone you are very confident is town (Dann)¹. You see another player (osuka) post a catchup you think is townie². You then see your first townread write a Big Post on why the second townread is scummy³ and all you decide to say is "idk how people scumread osuka"⁴??

does that really feel like a genuine townie behavior to you Norwee? if Wheme thinks Dann is town, shouldn't he be considering Dann's thoughts more seriously? If he disagrees with Dann, shouldn't he engage with him over it to try to steer Dann off a wrong path? Where's Wheme's agency, where's his desire to make sure we vote scum and not town? Why does he TR osuka? What does he think of Dann's case? We don't know, he's shared none of that with us.

References

1.

WhemeStar

, August 18th, post 260
2.

WhemeStar

, August 20th, post 579
3.

Dannflor

, August 20th, post 562
4.

WhemeStar

, August 20th, post 579

I like this post, and think GL is probably town to post it, even though it's giving me a bit of essay trauma as a student.

I don't agree with the argument though. Whemestar sees a townread pushing a townread, and questions why that's happening. The only thing missing is Dannflor being namechecked.

The lack of 'towny drive' and detail might just be explained by Whemestar being pushed for time or just not being very proactive.

I don't think it's super towny from Whemestar but I can see the bare bones of town thought process.

[furtiveglance]

Norwee's defense of Wheme felt informed so I guess I'll sheep Dusa

VOTE: Norwee

there's something off to me about this post, the way Sail gives their reason for the vote but then also says they're sheeping Dusa. It feels like Sail is uncomfortable taking full ownership of the vote?

the term 'sheeping' to me is grounded in "I trust this person" and this vote doesn't feel like it's coming from a particular place of Sail's trust in Dusa, so it's giving me fake vibes

That vote is from a while ago, why bring it up now? How did you happen across it?

[furtiveglance]

I think GL is super town
Not as high on Dusa or jjh
Happy with Dann, FA and Ina as town

[furtiveglance]

What are the rest of your reads looking like?

I'll do a list later. There are a lot of players I think could be scum but I don't have many big scumreads.

[furtiveglance]

I would be shocked if scum:
GuiltyLion

I would be surprised:
Dannflor, Ina, FA, BlueSnakelet

Could be scum:
Drew, Ranger, Titus, Whemestar, JJH, Dusa

Wouldn't be surprised:
Andres, RC, Sail, Aristeia, Norwee, KKFC

Would be surprised if town:
Osuka

[furtiveglance]

Reading through Sail's posts again, I townread them more than I did earlier. Their observations seem pretty grounded and sensible but also show a level of deeper thought sometimes.

In the same vein, I'm getting a bad read on Aristeia and Norwee voting Sail.

Aristeia's vote on Sail comes shortly after GuiltyLion's vote, but there's no precedent for a scumread on Sail. In fact, when Sail expresses a scumread on Aristeia in 461 and then qualifies it in 470, Aristeia replies with "that's probably fair" (471).
Aristeia's posting before that vote was about a scumread on JJH, but they don't seem to want to vote there - explanation was about not wanting to get into the tunnel/1v1 further. It seems like Aristeia could just want Sail out after they established a scumread on them, and saw GL's vote as a good springboard.

Norwee's isn't as egregious because they do say they scumread Sail before voting (as part of the strong reaction against the wagon on them), and Sail relents from the scumread on Norwee a bit in 777, but there's the same pattern of reactionary vote as with Aristeia, and together the Sail wagon doesn't look great to me. Plus I get a town vibe from Sail's posting in isolation, and I still scumread osuka.

Once again I've gone looking in search of different ideas, but ended up agreeing with my former self, but oh well.

TLDR is I still think osuka's the best vote and see the Sail CW as a vessel for scum.

On reflection, this could just be a point against Aristeia in a vacuum not necessarily tied to osuka, but I still think they fit together quite nicely. Besides, osuka vote is far more popular. But if an Ari wagon picks up I'll join.

[furtiveglance]

The third linked post was meant to be 475^^

[furtiveglance]

Furtive are you concerned at all about the RCE / Andres / Ranger vote hop ons to the osuka wagon?

or do the Sail votes you talked about just seem strictly worse for some reason

RC unvoted so still works with osuka. Ranger's had osuka quite low in her reads throughout. Not really sure on Andres.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive is claiming in post 1175 that the unpopular wagon on Sail is all scum desperately trying to counterwagon and rescue Osuka apparently.

It's certainly an take.

I knew I'd get this kind of response. But I argued that 1-2 of the Sail wagon is scum rescuing osuka akshually

[furtiveglance]

I

hmhmhmhmhm

what are you townreading from fire assassin?

Town

[furtiveglance]

I

hmhmhmhmhm

what are you townreading from fire assassin?

Town

Sorry, misread this. It must have looked like I was asserting my opinion quite stubbornly

Just made a lot of posts that I agree with and seems to be trying to solve

[furtiveglance]

Granted, I'd feel better about FA if they voted osuka, but they have stated a scumread there so I get the feeling they'd be open to it.

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys.

Still happy with osuka.

I'd be interested to see show of hands for an Ari wagon tho.

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys.

Still happy with osuka.

I'd be interested to see show of hands for an Ari wagon tho.

you're one of the players on my wagon that i actually think are on it in good faith, but your read on me is wrong. do you wanna talk about it?

Ok, I went through Fire and Ice (osuka towngame for others) and your posting style is pretty much indentical to this one. So that part of my scumread on you is gone. All that remains is your comment on Dusa being 'filler' which pinged me as a scum-pushing-LHF type comment to make early game. Since then you've done pretty much what I'd expect you to do as any alignment, apart from the posting about Dannflor which strikes me as slightly +town.

I'm gonna move my vote to Aristeia. I think a lot of their actions have shown an inconsistent mindset including survivalism. Osuka, you're not completely off the hook for me though. What's your read on Dusa now?

VOTE: Aristeia

[furtiveglance]

See, I feel like town in this situation would actually both to engage with my posts and reads. But osuka is in danger of being limmed, he wants to go as hard as he possibly can at me to buy himself another day.

this is a scumpost like 70%+ of the time

town would also want to buy themselves another day, nobody wants to get limmed regardless of alignment. But you are choosing to sell this as a point for osuka!scum, it is motivated reasoning

This is the first GL post that concerns me. 70% is a really high level of certainty in a read, and for this post? It's completely fair for Sail to see osuka's push on themself as desperate, whether that's correct or not.

If you're one of 2 big D1 wagons and the other widely suspected player is pushing you, it makes sense to see a survival-oriented scum there.

[furtiveglance]

I think of all the people voting me that this one is most likely to be mafia;


VOTE: KKFC

the long catchup feels like busywork and over justification of a vote

This selection of Aristeia's voters as a potential votepool is survivalistic/defensive

yea thats my point hes just writing questions to show a thought process not to actually get answers? which feels like scum who doesnt really want to get answers?

JJH scumread but no vote

VOTE: Sail

Unexplained/unprecedented in terms of read on Sail, who previously expressed scumread on Ari

my page 46 guess for the scumteam is Sail Titus Ranger Andresvmb

I don't expect it to be right but I reserve the right to claim I totally knew what I was doing if I am right

No JJH in here

it just feels like the sort of thing asking to be fooled by aristeia as angled interactions directly in her wheelhouse

that's kind of true but he's also never played with me as far as I remember so I don't see why he wouldn't just use the same methods he uses on everyone.

I agree the read feels a little too strong to be natural but he might just be a supremely confident individual.

have a good night Ina.

Mixed read on JJH which I interpret as more of a hedgy scumread.

[furtiveglance]

It's completely fair for Sail to see osuka's push on themself as desperate, whether that's correct or not.

If you're one of 2 big D1 wagons and the other widely suspected player is pushing you, it makes sense to see a survival-oriented scum there.

nah here's the thing - it's "fair" for Sail to see desperation there, sure. But is it fair for Sail to argue that this desperation means osuka is scum? There's no apparent consideration for how osuka would behave in the world where he's town and genuinely thinks his counter wagon is scummy and therefore a better elimination than he is. Town!osuka would likely be desperate and trying to ensure he's not limmed in that world, too.

So Sail is taking something that's pretty evidently NAI (fighting against your own elimination) to sell a scum!osuka narrative. To argue someone is scum

because

they're trying to buy another day, it means that you have to start from the position of assuming that they're scum to begin with. That's what I mean when I say it's "motivated" reasoning, the conclusion (osuka scum) was arrived at first and the evidence ('osuka is desperate not to be limmed') is presented specifically to support the conclusion.

If you're one of 2 big D1 wagons and the other widely suspected player is pushing you, it makes sense to see a survival-oriented scum there.

I want you to pause for a moment and consider (and appreciate!) some irony here in what I've quoted above. You could literally interchange Sail and osuka in that they're both the "2 big D1 wagons" being pushed by each other. So Sail saying osuka is scum faking a scumread on Sail 'makes sense', but me saying I think Sail is the scum faking a scumread on osuka does not?

It sounds like you agree that your perception of your voters as a big eod wagon can be skewed, and I agree that their positions are fairly interchangeable in terms of reciprocal reads and desperation/necessity pushing. But I still don't get where 70% certainty has come from, after a post that makes sense as coming from either alignment to me.

[furtiveglance]

I haven't actually played with scumfurtiveglance but it does feel like when he was pushing peta in Hollow Knight.

I guess he could replicate it to get townread but I don't think he would because he has a sense of pride imo.

Instead of just calling me a bad player, do you want to address any of the points I made?

[furtiveglance]

Prod dodge.

Sail is boonless. Probably not worth wagoning someone else at this point.

[furtiveglance]

I wasn't super surprised by Sail's flip but there's always a bit of hope at the end of the day, and seeing them flip town is making me reconsider osuka. Definitely a possible vote for me today again. I think Ranger's play has been fairly consistent with her towngame but I do have respect for her as scum so I'm not locked on it. I'd support an Aristeia vote again if that happens, but I could also do CCS maybe.

[furtiveglance]

FINAL RAID DAY WISH ME LUCK

I HATE DEEDTJMY 2 I HATE DAY 1 RAIDING BUT ITS FUN ILL REAS TMMRW

[furtiveglance]

Also, I'd like to see more from Norwee.

They were kind of a UTR/obvtown in this game (Open 870), especially towards the end, and I don't think their content has been up to that standard so far in this game, although there was a sizeable amount of fluffposting in the game I linked as well. Maybe there's more to come.

[furtiveglance]

Sorry, nothing in this game has fired me up so i'm in power-saving mode. Also a new major region in Genshin Impact released lately so i've been spending a lot of time just playing that game in the gaps between my work.

It seems like most slots have been townreading me though. Does anyone openly suspect me so far?

That game was unusually fiery yeah, I expect we'll see this one hot up as it goes

[furtiveglance]

Anyway Furtive do you want to directly talk about anything? That might interest me more in my current mood rn.

I might not see a response until tomorrow but:

Who's the player in this game you've played wirh most before/know their meta the best and what's your current read on them

[furtiveglance]

furtive are you going to give your latest reads list?

They're a bit loose right now, I'll try and divine some insight later with a full list.

For now though, I'm going to vote Snivy. I townread BlueSnakelet but now think that was maybe for superficial reasons, and since coming in CCS has looked more and more like a scum slot to me, and I'm still thinking Ranger makes sense as town.

Aristeia is still a scumread of mine but I think that wagon will have to wait until later in the game.

VOTE: Camelcasedsnivy

[furtiveglance]

Like... you asked why I thought you were scum, I said I wouldn't answer (I was emotional here sorry),
but then I said I thought you were scum because of the ad homs (probably should have said tone in general) towards me.

heres my problem with this: you decided that i was scum BEFORE we had that exchange, so you mustve had some reason to do that. that's my question and that's STILL unanswered, 20 pages later

The original reason given was a lack of faith in a Sail scum flip.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: WhemeStar

VOTE: Ranger

Could we please just win? I want dessert

Do you think these two could be scum together or just not sure on which?

[furtiveglance]

furtive why is ranger town to you

what exactly has been consistent with her town game

what would you be looking for to see if she was a daughter of the Professor?

She was quite an efficient scum partner in this game, so I've seen the somewhat more eccentric posting this time as town-indicative. Ranger definitely showed a less traditional style as town in this game, but she did spend some of it self-voting so it's not a great reflection of her towngame.

I was sort of thinking she'd be more streamlined and maybe less talkative, but I suppose being pushed would necessitate a response so I'm not as strong on the read as I was.

[furtiveglance]

Gonna unvote while I have a think

UNVOTE: CCS

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: osuka

I’ve come around on a drew wagon. Osuka is also decent just off yesterday.

But I don’t want to fall into the trap of like, “Osuka has to be red because sail was town”

VOTE: Ranger

this sequence has me

This made me laugh, and it's also relatable for me with the entire game right now.

I'm starting to see CCS as just a town with their reaction to being wagoned and near death

I think I'd prefer a Ranger elimination, I realised my townread was based on an incorrect memory/perception of meta.

[furtiveglance]

Ranger's E-3 at the moment so I'll make it E-2

VOTE: Ranger

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Ranger Easily flips red and I think Snivy flips red if that’s the case.

Here's an idea; help me bus camelCasedSnivy, the elimination I kept advocating for yesterday which nobody was interested in despite how obviously scum he is.

Like to be honest I don’t see Scum making this post ever.

Isn't 'help me bus' a classic scum tactic? What exactly is town about this?

[furtiveglance]

Meh, i believe for some reason.

I think I believe it as well, I probably wouldn't use if I had that role. What I am questioning is why CCS has chosen to accumulate the points at all?

[furtiveglance]

Meh, i believe for some reason.

I think I believe it as well, I probably wouldn't use if I had that role. What I am questioning is why CCS has chosen to accumulate the points at all?

this post feels scummy to me, furtive is throwing shade on CCS over something NAI despite ostensibly wanting to see Ranger eliminated today instead

it is not nai

I think it's easy to imagine a world where town sees a role with protective ability and wants to charge it

not everyone is going to instantly assume the negative utility is so bad that they shouldn't accumulate points, especially when the general thread vibe D1 (including BlueSnakelet's own post!) was that protective PRs should charge

so given that a straightforward town explanation for why he would accumulate points exists, it is not AI to me

It was more that the way CCS claimed:

oh sure

cheat sheet maker

literally just a babysitter but can only kill town

50 tpr and +10 each use

Seemed to imply that they weren't happy with this role/didn't see it as that useful. So I don't get why they wanted so many points

[furtiveglance]

because i thought i would last longer

But the risk/reward of a babysitter that only kills town is pretty bad right?

[furtiveglance]

but don't you think he would still want the protective ability

especially since he's not really widely townread, that's the sweet spot to use a babysitter action

I probably won't continue the conversation about which roles should be priority charges but agree with the pyramid of importance that BlueSnakelet made earlier in 233.

I thought CCS' description of role claim didn't exactly make sense with the actions they claimed, yeah. It's not really just about whether or not you want your ability.

On balance I still think they're probably town, but I just didn't get the decision behind the action.

[furtiveglance]

wow I think both of y'all are trying really hard to make it seem implausible that a protective PR would want to get uses of that PR

I doubt CCS was thinking on D1 "oh shit I might get yeeted on D2, guess I'll just forfeit using my role at all then lol"

like it's so easy to understand why someone would do 0% study on D1 with that role??

also why does scum!CCS bother to lie about this, too. like he could have easily just said he 0% studied yesterday and 100% studied today. this is striking me as fundamentally trying to push someone for being bad town and I Do Not Like

I'm not even pushing them as my preferred vote.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not even pushing them as my preferred vote.

that's exactly what made your post more scummy, not less

Why is it scummy then, if you accept I wasn't trying to discredit CCS

[furtiveglance]

{GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Dannflor}
{Alisae, Doctor Drew}
{Andresvmb, osuka}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Titus}
{Dusa}
{Enchant}
{RCEnigma, WhemeStar}
{Aristeia}
{furtiveglance}

First revision, may need more work, want to give more reading. I think GL and Norwee still look good regardless. Similarly good vibes for Dannflor. Alisae and Drew are nullish for the topic, yet generically town.

Andres and below, I need to review again.

Yes, furtive nosedived, I think furtive has accidentally revealed a scum alignment by the way this has played out.

Does this have anything to do with me voting you perchance

[furtiveglance]

like if you think CCS is town then what

were

you trying to do? admonish him for having a different attitude than you about value of his role? why, what's the point?

I was questioning his actions, yeah

[furtiveglance]

Still think Ranger is the best vote, not interested in Wheme or Drew wagons

[furtiveglance]

I'd respond to the case on me if there is one, but I haven't seen anyone give a reason so far.

[furtiveglance]

furtive, you just like aren’t doing anything that i have seen

The only thing that i remember about you is that you scum read Aristeia

and like i think that take was from D1

It feels like

you aren’t fully here

[furtiveglance]

why do you believe the CCS claim furtive

I believe the overall play, and the claim didn't change that. It's not like I was voting and then unvoted for the claim

[furtiveglance]

The Furtive can be seen retracting it's fur and slowly moving towards the bushes in order to hide from the perceived threat. Nature is truly beautiful.

Do you know why you're voting me right now?

[furtiveglance]

The Furtive can be seen retracting it's fur and slowly moving towards the bushes in order to hide from the perceived threat. Nature is truly beautiful.

Do you know why you're voting me right now?

So you can be eliminated.

Duh.

Yeah can you see why I don't really know what to respond to

[furtiveglance]

there's also a serial killer so like maybe they can be in that pile too ig
more likely a serial killer just blends in w/ town tho so after we kill all of the wolves I'm fucked xD

Why Serial Killer?

[furtiveglance]

they gotta find the mafia too

I mean, why serial killer? We only know there's a 3p. And only 1 kill last night

[furtiveglance]

it is the first third party that came to my mind

I don't think it's SK, but maybe that's just because I'm a cult recruit

[furtiveglance]

The Furtive can be seen retracting it's fur and slowly moving towards the bushes in order to hide from the perceived threat. Nature is truly beautiful.

Do you know why you're voting me right now?

So you can be eliminated.

Duh.

Yeah can you see why I don't really know what to respond to

Free tip.

Best defence is good offence.

Start offending people.

Find someone evil, explain and suggest to vote.

I mean, just countering arguments and hoping people move on is probably not best proposal.

Ranger is clearly my preferred option, she's been hopping on anything to save her and it looks more and more like the game that she was scum with me in.

[furtiveglance]

Every game i'm with you as town Furtive. I can correctly deduce that you are town in just a couple pages.

This isn't true, Only game I can remember is White Flag, and you were willing to vote me at times

[furtiveglance]

Every game i'm with you as town Furtive. I can correctly deduce that you are town in just a couple pages.

This isn't true, Only game I can remember is White Flag, and you were willing to vote me at times

Norwee, any response?

[furtiveglance]

furtive, you just like aren’t doing anything that i have seen

Mostly. It’s more, furtiveglance is far less vocal than a town-furtive

should

be.

A town furtive should be strongly advocating for his worldview; if things aren’t going in a way he supports, he should be actively trying to force things closer to his ideals.

Here, he's passive. He's sitting back. He's doing things, yet nothing memorable. He has a very forgettable presence. Given a town-furtive can top the posting charts and be rather memorable, this is in of itself suspicious.

I've been playing less vocally than [previous towngames] for the entire duration of this game. You only dropped me to bottom of your reads and 'noticed this' after I voted you and support was voiced for my elimination today.

On the meta claim, my townplay has been more reserved/less vocal pretty much since March. Here's my most recent towngame (under the Students of Prudence hydra): BooneyToonz XVI.

My most recent completed towngame on this account was Masterchef Mafiascum. A lot of players were scumreading me for posting less vocally then too.

It should be clear to see that Ranger is being dishonest about her own read on me this game here, apart from anything else.

[furtiveglance]

The Furtive can be seen retracting it's fur and slowly moving towards the bushes in order to hide from the perceived threat. Nature is truly beautiful.

Do you know why you're voting me right now?

So you can be eliminated.

Duh.

Yeah can you see why I don't really know what to respond to

Free tip.

Best defence is good offence.

Start offending people.

Find someone evil, explain and suggest to vote.

I mean, just countering arguments and hoping people move on is probably not best proposal.

Ranger is clearly my preferred option, she's been hopping on anything to save her and it looks more and more like the game that she was scum with me in.

Cmon now.
You can't have only ONE person you think are evil.

Even i have more and i am lazy.

Norwee, Dusa, osuka, RC?

I don't see why it's unreasonable for Ranger to be my strongest scumread by far, especially given how openly she's changed her opinions.

[furtiveglance]

The Furtive can be seen retracting it's fur and slowly moving towards the bushes in order to hide from the perceived threat. Nature is truly beautiful.

Do you know why you're voting me right now?

So you can be eliminated.

Duh.

Yeah can you see why I don't really know what to respond to

Free tip.

Best defence is good offence.

Start offending people.

Find someone evil, explain and suggest to vote.

I mean, just countering arguments and hoping people move on is probably not best proposal.

Ranger is clearly my preferred option, she's been hopping on anything to save her and it looks more and more like the game that she was scum with me in.

Cmon now.
You can't have only ONE person you think are evil.

Even i have more and i am lazy.

Norwee, Dusa, osuka, RC?

I don't see why it's unreasonable for Ranger to be my strongest scumread by far, especially given how openly she's changed her opinions.

Weird list if ranger is your #1 scumread.

Well, given the wagon on Ranger is just me and Titus now, I'm not really taking other former Ranger voters as clear of being partnered.

[furtiveglance]

So how is your scum circle all of the slots that out in the work to elim your top scumread minus Dann because he’s not limmable?

I already said, I'm more confident on Ranger than any other read. The others, including you, I'm not locked on.

[furtiveglance]

furtive i am also wondering if you read my wall

I did

I read CCS' claim fumbling as genuine, that's my most fundamental disagreement with what you said

I think it's possible BlueSnakelet acted in a way that didn't line up with his advice to others

[furtiveglance]

So how is your scum circle all of the slots that out in the work to elim your top scumread minus Dann because he’s not limmable?

I already said, I'm more confident on Ranger than any other read. The others, including you, I'm not locked on.

I think what RCE is trying to get at

Do you genuinely believe all these slots can be partnered

Like who are your top partner guesses for Ranger because I’m probably clearing Dusa if she flips red

Norwee is definitely exaggerating about a meta read on me, because the only game I've played with him that I can remember his read on me wavered.

The others I don't know.

I did think Aristeia yesterday but her posting around the time of the claim seemed town to me.

[furtiveglance]

Why did Ari’s posting seem town

She was saying a lot of what I was thinking

[furtiveglance]

eh
3051 is kinda towny

It’s very much not.

Posts like that is far from their actual town behavior's if one knows what it is and what to look out for.

Ok. I know you'll probably keep dodging this, but here's town!you voting town!me in Open 870. Which is the only game playing with town you I can remember.

[furtiveglance]

eh
3051 is kinda towny

It’s very much not.

Posts like that is far from their actual town behavior's if one knows what it is and what to look out for.

Ok. I know you'll probably keep dodging this, but here's town!you voting town!me in Open 870. Which is the only game playing with town you I can remember.

Bad example. I only voted you because Shirou, one of my bestest friends kept pushing me to do it.

That's demonstrably false even just by the post I quoted - you thought I bussed and then used it to towncase myself.

What game have we even been in together apart from that? You were scum in this one, so you can't really claim to have a perfect meta read based on this game.

[furtiveglance]

Didn't you just link Team Mafia which we were both town in.

Yes, as an example of a towngame after my playstyle became less wacky/more reserved. I mean, look at this post from the game:

TM game back in April

[furtiveglance]

I think it's possible BlueSnakelet acted in a way that didn't line up with his advice to others

if you are town here then I would strongly encourage you to consider the last game we played together where scum!Alisae claimed to be a doc who somehow inexpliecably failed to protect the cop, and you spent a whole lot of time inventing explanations why Alisae might not have been lying thus missing the obvious and true and simple explanation where Alisae was scum.

Ok. That game was hell though, for a lot of reasons.

Can you see from my perspective that Ranger is definitely scum? She moved me down in her reads, first when I voted her, and then when she saw opportunity to wagon me. And then used arguments that apply to my whole game to push me. Do you not see the inconsistency?

[furtiveglance]

I think it's possible BlueSnakelet acted in a way that didn't line up with his advice to others

if you are town here then I would strongly encourage you to consider the last game we played together where scum!Alisae claimed to be a doc who somehow inexpliecably failed to protect the cop, and you spent a whole lot of time inventing explanations why Alisae might not have been lying thus missing the obvious and true and simple explanation where Alisae was scum.

Ok. That game was hell though, for a lot of reasons.

Can you see from my perspective that Ranger is definitely scum? She moved me down in her reads, first when I voted her, and then when she saw opportunity to wagon me. And then used arguments that apply to my whole game to push me. Do you not see the inconsistency?

For arguments sake.
Let's say Ranger is mafia here. I've got it all wrong.

Who are Ranger's partners?

And if you say i'm her scum partner, get ready for a battle of the ages.

I don't have the entire game figured out, nor do I see why that's expected of me. Like I said, you certainly seem to be engaging with me in bad faith, whether you're scum or genuinely think you have an insane meta read on me I'm not sure.

Is there a reason you think Ranger can't possibly be part of any scumteam? It's worth noting there's a 3p as well, so whatever holistic 'game-solvey' logic you've got going on probably isn't airtight.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, I much prefer Isis to Dusa already.

I can see the case for CCS, but I also want people to see how scummy Ranger's been today. It does seem like that's happening though so I feel a bit more placated.

Bottom line is, I'm willing to compromise on CCS today.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[furtiveglance]

My feeling in furtive is that he's been a little too backgroundy and that makes the slot nullscum to me, even if he characterizes it somewhat well. But it's not too hard to overwhelm that with flips suggesting it's a town slot. It's kinda gutsy to combine the passivescum strat with the "bus and play solo" strat

I'm not sure I understand this, I haven't bussed anyone...yet

Are you basing your read on me on pre-flips?

[furtiveglance]

My feeling in furtive is that he's been a little too backgroundy and that makes the slot nullscum to me, even if he characterizes it somewhat well. But it's not too hard to overwhelm that with flips suggesting it's a town slot. It's kinda gutsy to combine the passivescum strat with the "bus and play solo" strat

I'm not sure I understand this, I haven't bussed anyone...yet

Are you basing your read on me on pre-flips?

I meant that if I had to dayvig 6 people immediately you probably end up on the list, but if in eLo your iso shows you voted mafia a lot you can probably be spared because passive day play + pushing partners tends to throw games.

I'm optimistic you might be pushing 2 scum today

Me too. I'm enthused by the voices voting with me as well.

[furtiveglance]

My ultimate weapon:

You all wrong.

End of discuss. Vote Furtive.

What's my crime, no teamsolve?

[furtiveglance]

First

VOTE: Ranger

[furtiveglance]

Aristeia is a bit of a surprise nightkill but it doesn't change my thoughts too much

[furtiveglance]

Can we just not rush today? I would have wanted to be a part of the discussion yesterday but I didn’t get a chance because we executed Snivy with not enough discussion from everyone.

you are a villager
but your opinion on the matter would not have mattered sorry

This new pfp is terrifying

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtive

If you wanted me dead you should have visited me last night

[furtiveglance]

It feels pretty obvious to me that scum are desperately thirsty for my elimination today.

Dannflor and Dusa voting me despite pushing Ranger previously is a very bad look. As in, it surely has to be one of us or the other from a reasonable town!POV.

[furtiveglance]

It feels pretty obvious to me that scum are desperately thirsty for my elimination today.

"desperately thirsty" oh the

drama

[furtiveglance]

idk how many votes are on furtive but that wagon is also like, fine, I'd vote it if that's where we decide to go

but I'm tempted to do Ranger first I think there's been enough people calling for her head for several days now and Titus was right yesterday Ranger is slippery, now we have to deal with Norwee deciding to white knight her for the Worst Reasons Of All Time

VOTE: Ranger

Thanks for fighting the good fight!

[furtiveglance]

Right let me explain why Ranger's thought process literally cannot be genuine

Ranger's E-3 at the moment so I'll make it E-2

VOTE: Ranger

I vote Ranger

Ranger's E-3 at the moment so I'll make it E-2

VOTE: Ranger

Weird ass vote

Take this post as representative of players scumming me, it felt like there were more around this time.

I think I'd prefer a Ranger elimination, I realised my townread was based on an incorrect memory/perception of meta.

I'm skeptical of this reasoning behind a pivot.

Setting up to omgus.

I'm back to CCS stronger scumread.

{KatyKimFanClub, GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE, Alisae, Dannflor, Doctor Drew}
{osuka}
{Andresvmb}
{Titus}
{Dusa}
{furtiveglance, Enchant}
{RCEnigma, WhemeStar}
{Aristeia}
{camelCasedSnivy}

Dropped me in list to match. For reference, I'd been in sort of town/null for most of the game.

Meh, i believe for some reason.

I think I believe it as well, I probably wouldn't use if I had that role. What I am questioning is why CCS has chosen to accumulate the points at all?

this post feels scummy to me, furtive is throwing shade on CCS over something NAI despite ostensibly wanting to see Ranger eliminated today instead

Then GL, pretty much UTR at this point, pushes me...

I'm not even pushing them as my preferred vote.

that's exactly what made your post more scummy, not less

...with some fervor.

{GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Dannflor}
{Alisae, Doctor Drew}
{Andresvmb, osuka}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Titus}
{Dusa}
{Enchant}
{RCEnigma, WhemeStar}
{Aristeia}
{furtiveglance}

First revision, may need more work, want to give more reading. I think GL and Norwee still look good regardless. Similarly good vibes for Dannflor. Alisae and Drew are nullish for the topic, yet generically town.

Andres and below, I need to review again.

Yes, furtive nosedived, I think furtive has accidentally revealed a scum alignment by the way this has played out.

Now I'm right at the bottom, because Ranger sees a possible mislim in me (and knows that if the CCS vote falls through, which looked like happening at times, she needs a new scapegoat). The reason given ('I think furtive has accidentally revealed a scum alignment by the way this has played out.') has still not been provided to this day - I'm assuming it'll just be parroting GL's idea anyway if it comes.

[furtiveglance]

I don't know whether this is more obvious to me just because I'm the target of it but I really feel like other players should see it too.

[furtiveglance]

I see everybody has checked in. So I have something to reveal. I was hoping I could make a positive impact this game, so here goes. I’m a PR. I won’t reveal what exactly, since that’s not important. What is important is that I have a Loyal modifier. So far I have studied 25% D1, and 25% D2. My action would have been blatantly obvious to have taken place during the Night, so I was either blocked (I find this unlikely since I didn’t soft my PR, and I’ve had a LOT of bad reads), or, more probably, I have identified a slot that is not Town. Theoretically, they could be 3P, which means I don’t have the certainty of pushing associations right now, but given their overall play, I would venture to say they’re Scum. That player is

Dannflor

.

Wow

VOTE: Dannflor

[furtiveglance]

Oof dann, my heart. Ok then I also have some info to give. I won’t go into specifics but I’m also a pr with pretty reasonable info to conclude that Ranger is at the very least, not scum.

Dunno how that adjusts your reads andres but I feel like I need a full reads flip now q.q

Also based on that and how Norwee came out today and ended yesterday I’m pretty good with calling him just straight up town.

Pretty reasonable? Are you clearing her or not?

[furtiveglance]

Andres I'm an ascetic, or close enough

your role would fail if it wasn't a killing role

I understand I'm probably dying today and Andres is probably telling the truth so I'll just full claim

I'm basically an ascetic PT cop. I've studied 100% both nights because I thought I was probably dying N1 or N2 based on the amount of town reads on me plus I didn't really think I was powerful enough for Group 3 and it takes 150 points for one shot anyway

so at least I don't have any points banked to burn. in retrospect I wish I had taken the chance to get a clear or something but that's where hubris gets me

dusa what's the best call and why is it ares

for whatever it's worth i did try to crumb my role here on the off chance I changed my mind to use it. my flavor is IT call center part-timer

Isn't ascetic usually a mafia modifier?

[furtiveglance]

Hmm

I believe Dann tbh. As many people have said, "Behavior > Mech" and I do not think he has played like scum

Can we stick with Ranger? Ali do you actually think Ranger is town and if so why?

I can see Dannflor with Ranger for the voting interactions. This is why I'm very interested to hear exactly what kind of result RC has on Ranger.

[furtiveglance]

Did Andres claim PT cop? I thought there was no real claim.

No Dann claimed PT cop and KKFC suggested he might be mafia true claiming his role. That's why I'm ????? at him

I'm kinda waffling right now, sorry.
I'm in a neighborhood, yes.

Howdy neighbour

[furtiveglance]

Right let me explain why Ranger's thought process literally cannot be genuine

Ranger's E-3 at the moment so I'll make it E-2

VOTE: Ranger

I vote Ranger

Ranger's E-3 at the moment so I'll make it E-2

VOTE: Ranger

Weird ass vote

Take this post as representative of players scumming me, it felt like there were more around this time.

I think I'd prefer a Ranger elimination, I realised my townread was based on an incorrect memory/perception of meta.

I'm skeptical of this reasoning behind a pivot.

Setting up to omgus.

I'm back to CCS stronger scumread.

{KatyKimFanClub, GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE, Alisae, Dannflor, Doctor Drew}
{osuka}
{Andresvmb}
{Titus}
{Dusa}
{furtiveglance, Enchant}
{RCEnigma, WhemeStar}
{Aristeia}
{camelCasedSnivy}

Dropped me in list to match. For reference, I'd been in sort of town/null for most of the game.

Meh, i believe for some reason.

I think I believe it as well, I probably wouldn't use if I had that role. What I am questioning is why CCS has chosen to accumulate the points at all?

this post feels scummy to me, furtive is throwing shade on CCS over something NAI despite ostensibly wanting to see Ranger eliminated today instead

Then GL, pretty much UTR at this point, pushes me...

I'm not even pushing them as my preferred vote.

that's exactly what made your post more scummy, not less

...with some fervor.

{GuiltyLion, NorwegianboyEE}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Dannflor}
{Alisae, Doctor Drew}
{Andresvmb, osuka}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Titus}
{Dusa}
{Enchant}
{RCEnigma, WhemeStar}
{Aristeia}
{furtiveglance}

First revision, may need more work, want to give more reading. I think GL and Norwee still look good regardless. Similarly good vibes for Dannflor. Alisae and Drew are nullish for the topic, yet generically town.

Andres and below, I need to review again.

Yes, furtive nosedived, I think furtive has accidentally revealed a scum alignment by the way this has played out.

Now I'm right at the bottom, because Ranger sees a possible mislim in me (and knows that if the CCS vote falls through, which looked like happening at times, she needs a new scapegoat). The reason given ('I think furtive has accidentally revealed a scum alignment by the way this has played out.') has still not been provided to this day - I'm assuming it'll just be parroting GL's idea anyway if it comes.

The problem with doing "narcissism scumcases" is that when though they come from town a lot they are about as easy to emulate as a wikiHow pancake recipe so it doesn't help people sort your slot town and your slot is already minimal contribution so

Idk it's hard
Like if Ranger flips red I have close to nothing from you besides "cast a vote in Ranger's direction" because you didn't do anything difficult to emulate

Ok. I mean to me, it felt like pointing out the obvious. I wasn't acting like I'd just made the world's most insightful read - Ranger was clearly going for any elimination other than herself yesterday, then acting like she had some insanely meaningful reason behind it.

[furtiveglance]

Andres I'm an ascetic, or close enough

your role would fail if it wasn't a killing role

I understand I'm probably dying today and Andres is probably telling the truth so I'll just full claim

I'm basically an ascetic PT cop. I've studied 100% both nights because I thought I was probably dying N1 or N2 based on the amount of town reads on me plus I didn't really think I was powerful enough for Group 3 and it takes 150 points for one shot anyway

so at least I don't have any points banked to burn. in retrospect I wish I had taken the chance to get a clear or something but that's where hubris gets me

dusa what's the best call and why is it ares

for whatever it's worth i did try to crumb my role here on the off chance I changed my mind to use it. my flavor is IT call center part-timer

Awesome. I’m a Loyal Vigilante. So now confirmed you’re just Scum. High risk, high reward.

[furtiveglance]

If that's all true you have some serious guts

I woulda shot like Wheme or Furtive or something lol

Hey

[furtiveglance]

Dann going so hard on CCS really does make me think Ranger's also scum. RC better have something good!

[furtiveglance]

I will be sad if dann is town

I hate mech

For this to be the case, Andres would have to be a scum investigative who found out Dann was ascetic by checking him...oh wait.

[furtiveglance]

There does technically exist a world where Andres as scum was just desperate to try and 1 for 1 Dannflor and so went out on a limb and magically guessed that Dann was ascetic, but it's not worth considering

[furtiveglance]

Andres could be like a copchecker going 1 for 1. Seems weird

Right, but how did he get a result on an Ascetic PT Cop?

[furtiveglance]

isn't there a world where andres is town and got blocked and furtive just tmi'd me as town

[furtiveglance]

In other news

@furtive did you neighborize KKFC? If so, why?

...no comment at this time...

Nah jk. I'll have to say 'neigh' in response to your question.

[furtiveglance]

Furtiveglance is a centaur

Idk what this means but thanks

[furtiveglance]

@furtive what is your favorite subject in school?

I am a uni student. I do classical civilisation, so a bit of what Dusa has been banging on about this game

[furtiveglance]

Hi, I'm here and I'm town. P shocked by Andres result I'd like a full claim.

@Ali why is my posting wolf indicative?

@RCE do you want me to claim or not? I'm town so if you have some kind of mech reason for thinking I'm scum we need to hash that out to make it less likely I can be miselimmed.

I’d like that yes.

Can you also claim?

[furtiveglance]

Furtiveglance is a centaur

Idk what this means but thanks

[furtiveglance]

I claimed a semi clear on ranger. They aren’t mafia. 3p at worst.

Their play does make sense with 3p actually

Having said that, probably best to look elsewhere for the moment.

[furtiveglance]

@furtive what is your favorite subject in school?

I am a uni student. I do classical civilisation, so a bit of what Dusa has been banging on about this game

That’s cool. What’s your favorite part of classical civilization?

Probably the literature, especially poetry/philosophy. Sappho is great

[furtiveglance]

I'm wondering how likely RC would be to green check Ranger as her scum partner. Probably only makes sense if Dannflor flips 3p.

[furtiveglance]

Hard advocating a Ranger flip for 2 days just to 180 day 3 is a hard progression for me to make as scum I think.

Regardless of that, if Dann flips mafia then the 2 of you living until final 7/8 would raise alarm bells anyway, in time for you to be caught I mean. If Dann's the third party then it might be a viable plan just to delay Ranger's elimination.

[furtiveglance]

Why would I live that long?

If scum? Because you don't kill yourself... what are you asking

[furtiveglance]

Ok but why would dann flipping scum make myself and Ranger scum that live to day 8? What are you asking?

I'm saying that you clearing Ranger as her scum partner is only a viable strategy if Dannflor isn't mafia. Because if Dannflor is mafia, you would see that he's going to flip today and not commit to such a risky plan that involves 2 of you with only 3 of you left. If Dannflor isn't mafia, then involving 2 of 4 players in this kind of plan is less risky.

Capiche?

[furtiveglance]

I will not allow you to get your way by mislimming Ranger today.

Try to keep this in mind if the scum prioritize killing Norwee over the claimed investigatives.

Given that RC is claiming to have checked you as non-mafia, I don't think you're in immediate danger.

[furtiveglance]

Am I crazy to suggest that we lim Ranger for:

A. Yes there are definitely signs of her being scum

B. But piggy backing on that, this kills the noise, which also could be considered scummy. I don't remember her making like post after post after post like this before..... beginning to think it is intentional. At the very least it is becoming anti town and making it tough to follow the game.

It doesn't really make sense to flip Ranger before RC in any case, as much as I agree with you. I'm considering them being partnered, but it seems an unnecessary commitment on the same day that Dannflor flips (if he is mafia).

[furtiveglance]

Probably?
I should clear the air and say that I am not in a neighborhood.

Why did you say you were?

[furtiveglance]

Dann flipping mafia rather than 3p does dampen my RC/Ranger idea a little. I just think committing 2 of 3 remaining team members in such a way would be super risky. That said, with Ranger's claimed check on Enchant it adds up to (at least) 3 Cop-like abilities claimed now, with Andres' loyal vig, RC claiming some kind of gunsmith and whatever Ranger's claiming. It seems like a lot of investigative power, so I'm sceptical.

I don't think [RC, Ranger] are both mafia. Like I said, it's a really risky move especially given that RC claimed after Dann was guiltied. Yes, Ranger was in danger, but RC wasn't really, so I don't see them as aligned scum.

Ranger is pushing the idea of scum!RC greenchecking town!her, which makes negative sense to me. Scum!RC would just let town!Ranger die.

The likely options to me are:

Town!RC could have checked 3p!Ranger. There's been 1 kill every night, so unless a SK has been no-killing (why) or hitting the same target as mafia, the 3p doesn't have kill power. I think that works quite nicely from a setup-spec perspective as well, so that a Gunsmith-type role doesn't just interact with mafia and the loyal vig.

Town!RC could have checked town!Ranger, and town just has 3 powerful investigative roles. From a setup-spec view, this could imply mafia having a godfather to me, or some other role that shows up as a town result, otherwise the power-balance looks a little off to me.

[furtiveglance]

Ok i read.

Unpopular opinion, but i think Ranger checking me and then instantly claiming it is most belivable. Ranger suspects Furtive and also probably paranoid on me (look at readlists i change positions often),

and i also push Furtive. So knowing my alignent for sure helps her in reading Furtive.

Enigma confirming that Ranger can't kill or something like that is also helpful. Unless you accuse Ranger of being Traitor which is silly considering her play.

I am still not impressed by that "like frame" from Dann on Furtive so i think voting Furtive is correct play today. I think that if Furtive was innocent, Dann would approach other way or just went silent like mafia commonly does when guiltied.

VOTE: Furtive

The bolded doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A town!Ranger might want to look for scum bussing scum!me, yeah, but she could also want to look for more openly-partnering scum, or just scum that avoids interacting with me.

[furtiveglance]

i think we should kill the guy that said "yep this fakeclaim by dann is believable"

Before I vote today, I want us to discuss the RC/Ranger claims.

[furtiveglance]

Probably?
I should clear the air and say that I am not in a neighborhood.

Why did you say you were?

I was interested in seeing what people had to say about it

Did people say much about it?

[furtiveglance]

I don't see how RC could be scum.
Is it abnormal for town to have 3 investigative roles in a larger setup?
It seems like most of these roles are most likely one-shot (at at the most two-shot).

In that case I could see mafia having some kind of godfather, or even an ascetic like Dannflor claimed.

[furtiveglance]

I kinda think osuka might be scum with Dann. When I read Dann's Day 1, a big chunk of it is pushing a case on osuka especially wrt his interactions with Dusa. Then he sort of just says he doesn't think osuka is scum anymore (after exploring another wagon on Norwegian).

Would this be too transparent? It makes sense to me.

I get that, I'm just not sure whether Dann would necessarily case his partner like that, given osuka was a real possibility for a time on D1. I mean look at what happened with his CCS push on D2.

The earlier D1 wagon was Drew, and I'd say Dann's posts about him look worse than about osuka:

@Drew, can you like, please, engage with the game a little bit?

I feel like you are trying to respond to the wagon in a towny way by uh, ignoring it

but if you are town this response of doing nothing is like, not helping anyone. do you really have no thoughts about anyone who has joined the wagon on you? how are you expecting people to figure you out?

it just feels like you are determined to act unbothered by the pressure but I feel like town!you would at least be moved by it, a little? am i wrong?

idk maybe it's boredom but I am increasingly not feeling the drew wagon

[furtiveglance]

Ok i read.

Unpopular opinion, but i think Ranger checking me and then instantly claiming it is most belivable. Ranger suspects Furtive and also probably paranoid on me (look at readlists i change positions often),

and i also push Furtive. So knowing my alignent for sure helps her in reading Furtive.

Enigma confirming that Ranger can't kill or something like that is also helpful. Unless you accuse Ranger of being Traitor which is silly considering her play.

I am still not impressed by that "like frame" from Dann on Furtive so i think voting Furtive is correct play today. I think that if Furtive was innocent, Dann would approach other way or just went silent like mafia commonly does when guiltied.

VOTE: Furtive

The bolded doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A town!Ranger might want to look for scum bussing scum!me, yeah, but she could also want to look for more openly-partnering scum, or just scum that avoids interacting with me.

You really think mafia 99% of time bus each other?

Duh. You mostly don't cop for Mafia. You cop nulls in hopes to get innocents and box scum. Of course everyone else have other opinion but they can implement them when they roll one.

I usually cop check scumreads who won't be voted soon. It's more helpful to know who to vote than to know who not to vote.

[furtiveglance]

Well you do you as cop, but mostly checks need to change course of game, not keep it.

Why check scumreads if they will be eliminated anyway.

You either prove them and forced to claim to defend or prove that common judjement was right.


You mostly check to prove everyone they had wrong opinions and must revaluate them.

Yeah, I said scumreads who

wouldn't

be voted soon.

In this case, it seemed like you were more of a claimed town/nullread for Ranger.

[furtiveglance]

That said, with Ranger's claimed check on Enchant it adds up to (at least) 3 Cop-like abilities claimed now, with Andres' loyal vig, RC claiming some kind of gunsmith and whatever Ranger's claiming.

Why do you think I was so skeptical about RCEnigma?

I didn’t believe he and I could both be town.

I since reconsidered.

And to be clear, I am a cop. My cop costs 150 to use.

I've the best breadcrumb ever of all time for this; you need only look at my very first post.

All your first post shows is that you were planning to claim

a role

from the start.

[furtiveglance]

I still don't find Ranger townie by play and grumble but lets flip something outside RCE Ranger for now

Idk if GL believing dann's claim is w or twtbw. It's risky for GL and Dann to align play throughout the game as much as they did?

Idk if any flips that change my desire to blow up osuka have really happened. Or we could kill furtive. Furtive bad. I can't remember why. I'm a little out of this large but I'll remember soon

Thoughts on Drew?

[furtiveglance]

All your first post shows is that you were planning to claim

a role

from the start.

A role which I used the exact same wording as the cop last game for.

Which game?

[furtiveglance]

I kinda think osuka might be scum with Dann. When I read Dann's Day 1, a big chunk of it is pushing a case on osuka especially wrt his interactions with Dusa. Then he sort of just says he doesn't think osuka is scum anymore (after exploring another wagon on Norwegian).

Would this be too transparent? It makes sense to me.

I get that, I'm just not sure whether Dann would necessarily case his partner like that, given osuka was a real possibility for a time on D1. I mean look at what happened with his CCS push on D2.

The earlier D1 wagon was Drew, and I'd say Dann's posts about him look worse than about osuka:

@Drew, can you like, please, engage with the game a little bit?

I feel like you are trying to respond to the wagon in a towny way by uh, ignoring it

but if you are town this response of doing nothing is like, not helping anyone. do you really have no thoughts about anyone who has joined the wagon on you? how are you expecting people to figure you out?

it just feels like you are determined to act unbothered by the pressure but I feel like town!you would at least be moved by it, a little? am i wrong?

idk maybe it's boredom but I am increasingly not feeling the drew wagon

So you are saying the wagon on me by Dann(I believe they started it) on D1 was basically scum theater by us? From an objective standpoint I can understand that.

I do need to read up a bit though, might have to wait until tomorrow.

Yeah I appreciate it's a difficult thing for you to defend against.

[furtiveglance]

I think there's enough sketchy slots for Occam's razor to just cut into slots outside the claims

Even me potentially leaning the wrong way on Drew etc
How many people are still alive isn't it like 13

Correct. 4 scum left.

[furtiveglance]

Drew, who are your main scumreads right now?

[furtiveglance]

[furtiveglance]

Moonlogic

We have confirmed PRs that are expensive and some unconfirmed. Where are the extra kill(s) if these claims are town and true?

"besides using SPR points to use their power roles, the mafia has an option of using extra kills for 50 SPR points each."

Now, let's say for a moment your scum team has 49.9999 SPR on Enchant. Clearing Enchant for one day buys an additional kill.

I enjoy you embracing the moonlogic finally lol.

I kinda don't get why Furt is just buying everything at face value here.

Did you read 3873?

[furtiveglance]

All your first post shows is that you were planning to claim

a role

from the start.

A role which I used the exact same wording as the cop last game for.

Which game?

This game.

When I rolled cop, I

had

to use my opener.

Ok. It still only proves that you planned to claim a role from the start. Nothing in that first post this game ties you to a cop claim even.

[furtiveglance]

Moonlogic

We have confirmed PRs that are expensive and some unconfirmed. Where are the extra kill(s) if these claims are town and true?

"besides using SPR points to use their power roles, the mafia has an option of using extra kills for 50 SPR points each."

Now, let's say for a moment your scum team has 49.9999 SPR on Enchant. Clearing Enchant for one day buys an additional kill.

I enjoy you embracing the moonlogic finally lol.

I kinda don't get why Furt is just buying everything at face value here.

Did you read 3873?

Did you have to make this post to know if I had read anything?

I am just going off the pic you posted.

Read my posts!

[furtiveglance]

I think there's enough sketchy slots for Occam's razor to just cut into slots outside the claims

Like perchance furtiveglance who is trying to fight my clear because he's scum not wanting to deal with this many conftown?

You're not really helping yourself with posts like this one. Do you really think it's unreasonable for me to see your play since D2 as incredibly survivalistic?

[furtiveglance]

Correct. 4 scum left.

Three groupscum and one 3p, actually.

[furtiveglance]

Hey, clocked the wagon on me. I get the case on GL, saw the claim, agree that Andres was the obvious JK target last night if wanting to save.

My role gets slightly less powerful if I claim it, but it's still good even if I have to claim. It would be better for me to not claim today though.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[furtiveglance]

My role gets slightly less powerful if I claim it, but it's still good even if I have to claim. It would be better for me to not claim today though.

I am very interested in this claim

I think I'm at E-1.

I'm a 'Phone Hacker', which is basically a submission checker that can confirm VTs. Hence my scepticism at 3 other roles in the setup which can confirm alignments.

The way it works is 80 points for 1 check, +20 for each next one. I studied 20% D1 to get the points for a check and 100% the other days. I get told whether my target studied 100% every day so far, or not. Non-town always give me a 'no' result, so I can confirm someone who's studied fully.

I was waiting for a VT claim before I used my ability. Does anyone want to claim VT and I can check them tonight?

[furtiveglance]

Did Andres claim PT cop? I thought there was no real claim.

No Dann claimed PT cop and KKFC suggested he might be mafia true claiming his role. That's why I'm ????? at him

I'm kinda waffling right now, sorry.
I'm in a neighborhood, yes.

Howdy neighbour

Why did you say this, furtive?

You claimed neighbour. Howdy neighbour is an (uncommon) salutation.

[furtiveglance]

@furtive

why not check someone on N1

if you get a 'yes' then you'd know either they are VT or useless PR, either way it's an inno if all non-town register as no
if you get a 'no' then you know it's scum or PR and can observe how they play, press them to claim if they seem scummy - it's possibly not the most useful result but certainly better than holstering for 3 nights especially when you could potentially get an inno?

like I don't see how your role becomes more useful the longer the game goes on so I'm trying to understand the logic of waiting for a VT claim prior to checking somebody. VTs don't want to claim until they absolutely have to

did you crumb or hint at this ability at all previously?

I thought I'd probably get an ambiguous 'no' since it's a theme game. VTs do claim sometimes, and I thought we'd massclaim at some point anyway. The idea's already been suggested today.

[furtiveglance]

Prod dodge.

Sail is boonless.

Probably not worth wagoning someone else at this point.

you also made this post which is like, not impossible with your role I guess but kinda ?? if you were specifically wanting to check someone who claimed VT.

I didn't really want to claim that early.

[furtiveglance]

I think furtive trying to pass as "i wouldn't be so silly to claim i never used my role like teammate Dann did"

Sounds like rolecop imo.

If town, gived mafia SPR then sitted doing nothing. Beautiful.

I considered not using my role, but it can actually prove useful. I got the points earlier because it was better mech-wise.

[furtiveglance]

Neapolitan isn't as good in a game with like 4/5 VTs out of 15 town

[furtiveglance]

Like you say, a VT result is great and confirms a player. I didn't think I was likely to get one if I used my ability.

[furtiveglance]

What happened in the boobs game?

Iirc push on furgivtives hydra started and I think it was cause of me because they were kinda non existent and I thought that was more like scum them and I feel like it’s happening this game as well

VOTE: furitive

This progression is fake.

[furtiveglance]

Minimum 2 scum on me right now. GL, Wheme, Norwee all likely.

GL/Norwee interactions look really phoned in.

[furtiveglance]

I'm fairly sure GL and Whemestar are both scum. Unsure on 3rd mafia. Possibly Norwee.

3p guess is Ranger/osuka.

[furtiveglance]

It seems much more likely to me that GL is town compared to furtive. His claim and actions make more sense.
For furtive, I don't think a town player is not going to investigate people. The consensus around BlueSnakelet's guide was clearly that strong investigative roles should be using their abilities.

This analysis is wrong.

There were 5 VTs in Datisi's Cafe.

It was fair to assume a similar number in this game.

This makes it more likely to get a non-VT than a VT result, which is useless unless a scum player I checked claims VT (unlikely).

[furtiveglance]

This makes it more likely to get a non-VT than a VT result, which is useless unless a scum player I checked claims VT (unlikely).

Ah yes. Every scum player claims VT. Aha.

? I didn't say that.

[furtiveglance]

It seems much more likely to me that GL is town compared to furtive. His claim and actions make more sense.
For furtive, I don't think a town player is not going to investigate people. The consensus around BlueSnakelet's guide was clearly that strong investigative roles should be using their abilities.

This analysis is wrong.

There were 5 VTs in Datisi's Cafe.

It was fair to assume a similar number in this game.

This makes it more likely to get a non-VT than a VT result, which is useless unless a scum player I checked claims VT (unlikely).

Why does the number of VTs matter? Sure, there are less, but it’s a correspondingly more meaningful result

It's a green check, which I'm unlikely to get. I'm far more likely to get an ambiguous result which will almost never be useful.

The number of VTs matter because if there were around 50% of town being VTs, I'd be more likely to get a useful result.

[furtiveglance]

Not to mention, your role can confirm town power roles who haven’t studied yet!

No it can't - that would provide an ambiguous result.

[furtiveglance]

Also, if you really think your role is not that useful, AND you see Sail claim VT Day 1, why are you studying?

This isn’t even mentioning how mispriced I think your role is. Why is it the only investigative role worth less than 100 points? Datisi was very careful to gate these roles in his review thread for last game.

I decided to get 1 check for when someone claims VT who isn't about to die.

[furtiveglance]

Enchant, and anyone else who thinks I used my role badly, I genuinely think my actions have been reasonable.

I am not a Cop. I am not a Tracker.

What would have been the point in checking someone who hasn't claimed earlier in the game? It literally only makes sense to do in the unlikely scenario that I get a yes result.

[furtiveglance]

Enchant, and anyone else who thinks I used my role badly, I genuinely think my actions have been reasonable.

Let's assume you GENUINELY believe it's GOOD idea to NOT do anything.

You was pushed previous day. Only because of guilty on Dann wagon stopped.
And you STILL didn't act just atleast to use these TPR while you still can and provide something on claim.


How you planned to survive this day phase? "lol i did nothing"? It was your plan? You was 100% assured we not voting you?

I was close to claiming yesterday.

[furtiveglance]

Yes, and you didn't act anyway.

Why?

I was waiting for a VT claim, or enough PR claims to give me a good idea of who to check.

[furtiveglance]

The number of VTs matter because if there were around 50% of town being VTs, I'd be more likely to get a useful result.

If you don't get a VT result on someone that is still useful later on in the game.

How? If I out it, scum just fakeclaim.

Also maybe I'm misreading the wording of your claim but if you investigated a town PR who alway studied (and thus never got TPR), you would get a VT result right?

Correct.

[furtiveglance]

I've made my views pretty clear at this point. If I get hammered, so be it, although I don't get how people are accepting GL thought Andres would have another shot. That reasoning was just nonsensical compared to how on top of setup spec GL has been.

Still think Ranger flips 3p.

[furtiveglance]

if furtive dies and flips town, probably all remaining mafia alive are trying to save guiltylion right now

I don't know. Is that ever the case?

[furtiveglance]

Part of me wants to believe furtive is town which REALLY did all these mistakes.

Other part of me tells me if furtive is mafia and gets away with claiming never acting neopolitan, i will be disgraced.

Again, I don't think I played too badly, and I can still help town in theory if I survive.

And again, neapolitan in a Datisi theme game really doesn't mean a lot...

[furtiveglance]

Dont let Ali bring more people to her side!

You think Ali is scum? Wtf

The only reason Memestar won't vote GL is, and I quote, "Both of my townreads (Dann + GL) can't both be wolves Ali"

He really is a super quirky memer isn't he, definitely not just scum with GL...

[furtiveglance]

Part of me wants to believe furtive is town which REALLY did all these mistakes.

Other part of me tells me if furtive is mafia and gets away with claiming never acting neopolitan, i will be disgraced.

Also, why is it so easy to believe such a bad JK action from GL? You think he would do that as town?

[furtiveglance]

Ok, if we're eliminating GL, I need one player to claim VT before the hammer. As long as they've studied 100% all days I can confirm them.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, if we're eliminating GL, I need one player to claim VT before the hammer. As long as they've studied 100% all days I can confirm them.

Do you check VTs or anyone who hasn't accrued tpr?

The latter.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, if we're eliminating GL, I need one player to claim VT before the hammer. As long as they've studied 100% all days I can confirm them.

Do you check VTs or anyone who hasn't accrued tpr?

The latter.

Why did you think your role is useless then didn't listen to people who said that many weak roles are gonna be bad to use at all compared to FUELING MAFIA NKs?

I thought it would be useful after claims. Someone made a mech post saying it was better to get points earlier rather than later so I did.

[furtiveglance]

My result: Whemestar is confirmed town.

Enchant died, Ranger lied. Is it just RC/Ranger +1?

Mason claim definitely implies another Mason, so the scumpool is getting smaller.

11 players now, 3 scum, 2 votes today. So could be ELO tomorrow.

I'm aware a lot of people want to vote me today. If that ends up being the case, I'd like to be voted first and order the next vote.

[furtiveglance]

Can I ask people who they're going to vote after I flip town?

[furtiveglance]

For the people who is just saying Ranger is lying, are you just saying that by the nature of "SHE LIED" she is mafia?
Are you saying that villagers would never lie thus Ranger is mafia?
That doesn't make sense to me when she is on an account that has stated herself will lie. Sure, she could be mafia and lying, but if she's town and lying, killing her via day isn't going to change if that was the correct play or not.
I imagine if I was in Ranger's position and I got a message from Enchant trying to ask Ranger to bait Enchant into getting Nightkilled, my first instinct would be to try to figure out what lie does it. It would probably be a poor attempt, but mafia isn't going to guess it's a coordinated play, ms wolves don't rly read into things like that and even if they did it's kinda impossible to identify.

Sure Ranger could be mafia and she killed Enchant for a very specific reason. If we can figure out a reason that works, cool, but until then, I'm going to need more than the surface level "she lied"

It's just poe for me. The game makes a lot more sense with RC/Ranger + 1 than 3 Mafia who aren't RC/Ranger.

[furtiveglance]

In terms of who gives a massclaim order, Whemestar is the only real conftown in my eyes. I still think RC/Ranger

[furtiveglance]

Idk why that posted, I wasn't finished!

-I still think RC/Ranger could be scum together.

The thing is idk whether Whemestar will put the effort in to decide an order. I TR Alisae and they can give an order if they want.

[furtiveglance]

I'm a fanfiction writer. For 20 points I can ship two players or something

This is very Datisi. Impressive if it's a fakeclaim.

[furtiveglance]

Hmm I think Titus probably meant Supertown Power Role points guys. So probably nothing to read into there.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive next?

Can do. It confirms Whemestar at least.

[furtiveglance]

His is much more excusable, imo.

Are there configurations of the claimed roles that allow us to confirm those roles?

Only you and Norwee really

[furtiveglance]

Furtive can u full claim?

What haven't I claimed yet?

[furtiveglance]

mafia rolecop****

Mafia rolecop functions differently in kinda interesting ways. You can test furtive's claim by demanding he check people and report whether they studied 1 or 0 at random

From a design standpoint knowing that someone has a charged Lazer could be better knowledge than knowing what kind of laser it is for a scum pr

Can do, obviously it has to be agreed ahead of time who I'm targeting though.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I like that idea, and it seems mechanically advantageous as well. However, there are certain players who seem hellbent on killing me today because reasons.

[furtiveglance]

Are any of them mafia furtive

I'd say osuka is my best bet. He was really really confident on me flipping scum after GL died, and knowing that vote was T/T, his reaction and play around it seems really opportunistic in assuming there has to be 1 scum in a couple of duelling wagons.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive I don’t understand exactly what it is that u are

I target a player for 80 points (+20 for each further use), and find out if they are town who studied 100% on all weeks (days) so far. I automatically get a no on scum. So basically I can study 0% today for another check, or I can just study 100% if I'm gonna get voted.

[furtiveglance]

Also, by points, I meant TPR (which stands for Totally scum Power Role points)

[furtiveglance]

You have enough points to check??

If I study 0 today I will.

[furtiveglance]

sounds like a done deal. Who am I checking? or a pool of players?

[furtiveglance]

I can check Cephrir yeah.

[furtiveglance]

Town:

WhemeStar

Only scum with each other:

KatyKimFanClub
NorwegianboyEE

Only scum if RC is scum:

Ranger

VT claim/Unprovable by claim:

Dusa
Alisae
RCEnigma
Cephrir
osuka

Any of the bottom 5 flipping scum clears Ranger and the 2 Mason-esque claims.

I feel like checking Cephrir could help solve the game at this point.

[furtiveglance]

Well, it seems like my duty is to

VOTE: osuka

[furtiveglance]

did we all just forget what happened like last week

Why is 2 wagons = guaranteed 1 scum?

[furtiveglance]

Still here? Fun

I think the game gets easier for town if I check Cephrir tonight. Don't really understand counter-arguments unless you really really think I'm scum who has a chance of endgaming.

[furtiveglance]

Titus, I'd really rather have the points for another kill

The 3p might take care of itself

Didn't age well.

We would have only found out what the role did, not who the 3p was. So I don't think it would have even helped.