MKM II GAME OVER

[sirdanilot]

k so reading the game may take a while though, anyone has a summary about what happened this would help my reread a bit otherwise count on about a week or so.

[sirdanilot]

answering prod

Sorry but reading is very difficult because a) the thread is very long and b) my computer time is limited since my own computer is currently being repaired, so I have to use other ones

so this will have to take a while.

[sirdanilot]

Page 11. My brain can't handle more than like 6 pages or so per day. Luckily this game isn't full of textwalls so it might go a bit quicker but that effect is eliminated by me not having my own computer right now.

sirdanilot maybe you could just answer Gorrad???

Why are you in this game??? What is the flavour for you entering the game, and are you Mushroom Kingdom?

oh. K. The ground came closer and closer and then I was in a dark place with several people I don't know. I suppose that fits 'jumping in'?

Not giving anything else right now.

[sirdanilot]

I'm bowser's army.

Gorrad why did you just out yourself. Why would anyone be able to summon a scum player. In fact the whole jump in deal seems quite stupid to me.

Why is zwet being lynched. So far he doesn't stand out to me? tbh it looks like you are just lynching him for the sake of lynching zwetschenwasserchsadfasdflk. Other than his username there seems to be little to no base for this.

For the sake of contributing, poptajo seems suspicious to me (as of page 12).

fos poptajo

. I can't really explain why very well now. Combination of a strong gut feeling I haven't felt in a while, the massclaim debacle, the items thing, now the zwet claim proposal. The latter may become weaker when I learn the reasons for zwet suspicion.

Do you guys want to stay updated like this while I read? I felt it might be helpful.

[sirdanilot]

-"Buying" new players seems a bit anti-synergistic with not being able to buy/use items.

? this makes perfect sense to me? can't buy items, instead can buy players?

[sirdanilot]

Yes, but not falling into. I suppose the game could be played in the basement or something...

? stop uttering nonsense. jumping is a key element in mario games. anyway the 'fits with jumping in' part was not part of the mod's flavor, it was my speculation of why the mod told me something like 'the ground came closer and closer'

back to read

[sirdanilot]

I now have some town reads as well which I think I shouldn't reveal as well as that paradoxically ortolan is quite scummy too (from my read, not from the dumb 'are you not mk' question) im at page 14

[sirdanilot]

-It's not his username. It's his playstyle. He posts erratically, and what he does post tend to make little to no sense. He votes erratically as well, often abandoning everything he has said previously and latching on to the latest argument that someone posted.

He does this in many games as both town and scum.

Hence why there's no way we should lynch him. It's just too easy. Find some tells that are very specific that point to him being scum.

Although his play style may be 'erratic', it doesn't come off as scummy to me.

AceMarksman - why is that? Explain please.

[sirdanilot]

Thank you, mora.
@sir: It doesn't seem like you're reading as fast as you can, and you're drawing conclusions from the first 1/4 of the game.

I said earlier that I would post my thoughts as I read. Right now my thoughts aren't zwet scum.

the 'I think' thing is iffy in his recent claim.

Who are you to judge how fast I can read? Also you are one of my suspects right now (page 15).

[sirdanilot]

page 30 am I now.

[sirdanilot]

36 and stopping for today. ugh. tomorrow I'll have LOADS of time though. I think.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (5): AceMarksman, caf19, Moratorium, populartajo, Gorrad
-populartajo (2): zwetschenwasser, ortolan
-Moratorium (1): Empking
-Looker (1): Kast
-Gorrad (1): WeyounsLastClone

Not voting (6): killa seven, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[sirdanilot]

I'm at like 41 or 42 now. I have to reread those since I didn't participate in a lot of the talking since I was reading the game.......

Sorry for taking well over a week but up until today I didn't have my own computer, the game is pretty damn long, and real life can get in the way too.

[sirdanilot]

Oh as for giving thoughts along the way I think someone said that I should give my thoughts AFTER reading (kast, acemarksman and you, in fact). Not sure I can quote where exactly you said that though.

First I thought poptajo was scum, then after he proved he had item knowledge I leaned town, but since that doesn't say anything anymore I can see poptajo scum. My suspicion is not as much as it used to be though, but let's not give him a free pass just because of the item claim plan ok?
AceMarksman was suspicious, but needs a reread. I actually don't recall anymore why I found ortolan suspicious, needs a reread at some point I guess. WLC seemed scummy too. That's about it I guess. Then there are obviously some useless people in the thread of whom I don't have a read.

I don't like the blatant zwet lynching because he's zwet around page 45 or so. Yes the 'you claimed wario' thing was stupid but is stupid scum? I don't like tajo's push of looker (lurkerlynch, not that I think he's towny or anything). I don't like ortolan vs tajo. It seems a lot like a misguided towny vs towny thing, even though ironically I do have quite a bit of suspicions of one of them. Weird.

I will refrain from saying who is town, although in my eyes it's quite obvious.

Meta question: Does tajo have a meta for omgus?

Right now I would be inclined to vote WLC, maybe acemarksman but I will have to closely reread. I will not vote until I finish reading the entire game.

[sirdanilot]

I'm still

generally

up for a zwet lynch,

but if support for it is waning then I'll have to look at other options.

Reread time.

vote: caf19

I'll reread this guy some time. He seems to fall in the same category as WLC, as well as quints on day 1 (now flipped scum). Posting reasonably regularly, although not ubiquitous, and posting content as well as scummy things like these. Short periods of absence are common.

AceMarksman: I really felt you were suspicious in the beginning of the game. But indeed the SK claim thing was a town tell. I don't know why I didn't consider the importance of that to the extend I am doing right now (no I didn't ignore it though). I may make the case on you some time but I think there are more important things.

[sirdanilot]

Ok, zwet's claim didn't present us with any huge reasons not to lynch him.

His claim wasn't a huge disaster but is weak and nebulous enough that it could easily have come from scum. The fire-resistance seems to fit flavour-wise, but obviously scum would know their own killing methods. It's something that could have been fabricated without too much trouble.

Then again, the nagging voice in the back of my head tells me that for a zwetclaim, 'not a disaster' is probably the best thing you're going to get...

ort, how certain exactly does your info make you that zwet is town?

lol blatant zwet lynch push. wiffle waffle I am sitting comfortably on my fence. In his last line he is doing something we could interpret as rolefishing but maybe that would be just a

tiny bit

too fast...

I really need to do a case on this guy. He's a gem. First I will read the entire thread (ALMOST DONE) but then it's on I hope when I have time.

[sirdanilot]

quoting caf's post

This is good posting. You are going to vote caf too, ort?

lolwhat

As a rule of thumb, it seems better to avoid a mislynch and let scum learn a townie's role than to get lynched but deny scum that information. But there could well be exceptions.

?

Have to go now.

[sirdanilot]

Finally done reading the entire thread. 50 pages... DAMN.

Looker is being replaced and I think we should hold off of lynching him until the replacement is ready.

Not enough energy to go after cam or whatever his name is right now. oh it's caf.

[sirdanilot]

you guys are lazy, you think scum will jump in your lap and you'll win by making incredibly obvious and incorrect lynches.

YES

That said, I find it appalling how you, your big friend Tajo, and many many other people completely ignore caf and my case on him. Especially the ones who kept pressing for me contributing. I'm sick of absurdly scummy people still posting their bullshit in this game. Let's lynch some scum already. They are right there in front of your eyes!

I'm still

generally

up for a zwet lynch,

but if support for it is waning then I'll have to look at other options.

Reread time.

Good use of unexplained bolding. (1)I assume you're implying that I'm scummy for just going along with other people's opinions. (2)If that's the case, I don't really care if you think it's scummy. (3)That post is exactly how I felt at the time. I've been focusing on zwet and if I can't get him lynched then I'll have to widen the search.

1. Oui/Yes/Sí/Ja . And how you're

generally

up for a zwet lynch. Keeping all options open. As if you weren't looking for other people while the zwet thing was still popular opinion. In fact I have no reason not to believe the latter, since you're probably scum who don't have to scumhunt by definition.
2. Refusal to defend yourself will unfortunately not help you here. It looks like you aren't able to defend yourself. Pro-tip: defending yourself is pro-town.
3. I think that a reread is in order to address this since I think it would be very interesting to find out who you 'suspected' before all this.

I'll reread this guy some time. He seems to fall in the same category as WLC, as well as quints on day 1 (now flipped scum). Posting reasonably regularly, although not ubiquitous, and posting content as well as scummy things like these. Short periods of absence are common.

How is any of this a scumtell?

It isn't, it's a description of your 'player category'. It's not a scum tell per se, but it's the manner of posting that would perfectly suit a person of antagonistic alignment such as yourself. I do not suspect you for having it, but I still like to point it out.

lol blatant zwet lynch push. wiffle waffle I am sitting comfortably on my fence.

I was voting zwet at the time (still am) and it's fairly obvious I wanted him lynched. What kind of a fence is that?

Here:

Ok, zwet's claim didn't present us with any huge

reasons not to lynch

him.

His claim

wasn't a huge disaster

but is weak and nebulous enough that it

could

easily have come from scum. The fire-resistance seems to fit flavour-wise, but obviously scum would know their own killing methods. It's something that

could have been fabricated

without too much trouble.

Then again, the nagging voice in the back of my head tells me that for a zwetclaim, 'not a disaster' is probably the best thing you're going to get...

ort, how certain exactly does your info make you that zwet is town?

The purpose of pressuring and claiming (something which I think shouldn't have hapened at the time but that aside) is to show if someone is scum. The fact that zwet is not a confirmed towny doesn't give you any reasons

to

lynch him. (insert rant about why the english language doesn't support trivial dutch words like 'wel' rendering me unable to express exactly what I meant and having me resort to things like bolding blablabla)
Since his claim 'wasn't a huge disaster'. Your main point is basically, 'it

could

have come from scum' and 'scum could have fabricated it'. All in all, not more than you know of a normal person who hasn't claimed yet.

All this isn't that bad per se. You are not scummy for pointing out that the claim wasn't decisive of zwet's alignment one way or another. But you

are

scummy for wanting to lynch him solely because of that, while it is no reason to lynch zwet! You can now only lynch zwet if you have additional reasons. For example role related reasons of other people, and play style elements etc. For the former, we haven't really had anything conclusive, since gorrad says he's scum and ort says he's town, with neither of them providing reasons, and I haven't seen you give a convincing play style based case on zwet. But as I said I need to reread you.

In his last line he is doing something we could interpret as rolefishing but maybe that would be just a

tiny bit

too fast...

It's not rolefishing when you consider that at the time, there were people who were just flat out asking ortolan to reveal his roleinfo. This was a more useful and less potentially anti-town approach.

What would you have done if the answer was 'very certain'? What if it was 'probably'? Wouldn't that information be potentially helpful to the scum? Oh whoops that's you.

[sirdanilot]

@sirdanilot:

I've yet to hear your opinion of zwets, I'm just seeing your opinion of other people's opinion of zwets.

- What do you know of zwetschenwasser's playstyle?
- What do you think of zwetschenwasser's play during this game vs. his normal playstyle?
- Do you believe zwetschenwasser is a) heavily scum, b) leaning scum, c) leaning town or d) heavily town. I've omitted any Neutral or No-read option on purpose.

Zwet's playstyle is generally jumpy and unhelpful, but I only have limited meta (sushi mafia, and there was very little overlap between him replacing in and me dieing) He is a very easy target for scum, but my meta with him is solely one in which I was scum. It seems that he was first town but then joined another scum faction or something, haven't thoroughly read the end game post yet. Thing is I just don't get a scummy vibe

at all

. At least he

tries

to contribute. He

thinks

he is right. I would have to read a couple of games of his to compare playstyles, something I won't do since it's not only too much effort but also because I don't really believe in meta as such.

I will get to caf later on.

[sirdanilot]

Sirdan, I also dont think caf is scum. His reasoning is very similar to mine.

What are your thougts of ort and Looker?

Are you scum too? Anyway, I see how you mentioned numerous times that you 'don't think someone is scum'. So there are two possibilities here; either you are scum who first decides who is 'scum' and who isn't or you are town very bad as scumhunting. Since you're an experienced player I think I'll have to lean towards the former.

In other news, please explain exactly with what reasoning of caf you agree with. His defense against my attack or his reasoning to suspect zwet?

Oh nvm reading further reveals that 'caf comes to the same conclusions as me' (paraphrased). How is it more likely that he is town and is 'going through the same thought process' than that he is scum copying your (or rather, popular town) opinion? Can we also get examples of this happening?

Kast seems to greatly misunderstand the part where I described the typical play style. Just like caf, he seems to think that this was actually part of my case against caf. However, I explained how it wasn't before this kast post. this confirms that he hasn't read my post in reply to caf at that time. this is not scummy at all, but it is noted. I tend to do this too when there's so much to read (like now there's 3 pages...)

@Sirdanilot-
Wth?
(1)-Regularly posting reasons and content are not scumtells.
(2)-Being open to lynch other players if your top choice has no chance of success is a null tell, but generally I'd call it a pro-town attitude. Lynching, even mislynching, beats a no lynch. It is far better to get your number 2 or 3 lynched than to insist on number 1 and end up in either no lynch or lynch of someone you think is a townie.
(3)-Short periods of absence happen to everyone. It's called life. Major null tell.

1. true, see above
2. this is your only valid point that is actually addressing my case. The thing that jumped out to me here is just how it looks like he's following popular opinion. And that his 'general' attitude was lynching zwet. Maybe my suspicion was a bit too gut oriented.
3. true, see above

@Sirdanilot-
-Looker being replaced does not excuse his player slot from being suspicious. I agree that we should not lynch prior to his replacement coming in, but nobody has suggested that.

How did I say it excuses his player slot from being suspicious? And I'm pretty sure tajo is suggesting that (maybe not explicitly?).

@Sirdanilot-
Someone said Law is your brother. (1)Do you know him well enough to guess how he might think?

(2)Do you know what Mario games he is most familiar with?

(3)Particularly, do you know if he played the original SMB, SMB3, any Paper Mario games?

yes I'm his brother. yay..
1. maybe
2. super mario bros 3. super mario bros 2. we played super mario bros 1 too (we had this neat Mario Allstars cartridge for snes). he's addicted to Super Smash Bros., SSB melee and he played SSB brawl. He's slightly less familiar with the super mario world series. But seriously how is this going to help you. It's not like he has never heard of wikipedia to find characters he's less familiar with.

Also I don't have any role knowledge whatsoever since I didn't want to help him mod this from the start so he decided not to tell anything at all so I could legally play without bias. Just for the record. He ever told me anything. He did tell about mkm 1 while it was going on (which I didn't play) but it went into one ear and then out the other, as we Dutch say, so I have mostly no knowledge of it.

3. Both, and we played Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door I just remember. None of the other paper mario games though.

The fact that he is my brother is probably not going to help us much. If it would have I would probably not be playing in this game. I wouldn't want to cheat.

@Sirdanilot-
If you are going to be lynched, then it is better to name/role claim prior to getting lynched.

Normally this is a no-brainer since getting lynched has the same negative aspect as claiming plus one dead townie.
Get lynched:
-One dead townie
-Scum learn town information to better plan their actions, craft fake-claims, etc
Claim:
-Scum learn town information to better plan their actions, craft fake-claims, etc

In our game it is different.
Get lynched:
-One dead townie
Claim:
-Scum learn town information to better plan their actions, craft fake-claims, etc

Depending on your role, it is possible that conventional wisdom (claiming prior to being lynched), is not the best thing to do.

I appreciate this lecture, but how is this a reply on the post you tried to link to (note: I don't know if it's my browser or your linking skills, but sometimes it first goes to the correct post but then jumps to another one leaving me guessing what posts you are referring to. but in this case it linked to the right one I think).
What I was talking about is how zwet's claim wasn't a good reason to be lynching zwet, while at the time it came off as if that

was

caf's only reason. Try again.

2) I would be upset to see him lynched because, while I do think him scum, he actually posts, contributes significantly, analyses, etc. If he's town, his lynch would be a significantly bigger loss than that of Zwet.

1. Please post who you are talking to, or quote the post you are referring or link to it. A simple '@ person' takes only several milliseconds to type and is full of goody conveniency.
Anyway, even though I don't know what you're talking about here, activity shouldn't be a good reason not to lynch someone if you think he's scummy. That is just anti town.

-In my books, Ace is 95% non-MK. If you still suspect him despite admitting his critical role in nailing SK, then present that case.

^this. Seriously doubting that sir is BA at the moment.

I addressed this issue WAY BEFORE. Please learn how to read the thread. Currently I'm no longer suspecting him more than I suspect everyone else but I am not convinced of his townyness. You are not confirmed. Stop omgusing if this is the only reason of your suspicion of me. If not, case please.

due to the request my win con is that I win when there is only mushroom kingdom left.
If you have any other pertinent questions ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Now i've got quite a bit of reading to do!

whoops - i mean I win when there is NO mushroom kingdom left.

scum slip !

Note: I now think I get gorrad's reasoning. However I am not sure if I should explain it, nor that Gorrad should.

unvote caf vote ThAdmiral

FoS: RBT Even though the vote is good, that was too opportunistic not to be taken into consideration. RBT, you have lurked the entire game yet when tajo and I catch scum, you instantly jump on the wagon. Where are your cases against other players? Where are your suspicions. I think RBT will get my vote tomorrow after we lynch Admiral!scum.

This is understandable, but not thought out enough. I am not saying that I think RBT is pro town. (His play is very much like he played as scum in Sushi Mafia. However, I have no town meta. I suppose I should look one up. )Anyway here you are working a bit from the assumption he is scum. His vote makes a lot of sense if he's scum. But experience shows that town don't have much options other than following the same procedure in the case of a scum slip. Just saying.

ENOUGH.

You are softclaiming that you have information that indicates Im scum?

YES OR NO.

Could you please stop rolefishing? Thank you. It's bad if you're town, and it makes you looks scummy if you're scum.

Unofficial Votecount:

-ThAdmiral (8): Kast, populartajo, AceMarksman, Riceballtail,

Gorrad, Empking, Caf19, sirdanilot

My vote was probably the hammer, if there was someone on the wagon with a double vote. I decided to hammer since not only did ThAdmiral slip there, in a ridiculously scummy way, but if he would somehow magically be towny (almost impossible) we have A LOT to analyze tomorrow.

[sirdanilot]

2) I would be upset to see him lynched because, while I do think him scum, he actually posts, contributes significantly, analyses, etc. If he's town, his lynch would be a significantly bigger loss than that of Zwet.

1. Please post who you are talking to, or quote the post you are referring or link to it. A simple '@ person' takes only several milliseconds to type and is full of goody conveniency.
Anyway, even though I don't know what you're talking about here, activity shouldn't be a good reason not to lynch someone if you think he's scummy. That is just anti town.

That was at Ortolan. And if I personally have a strong preference to lynching scummy non-contributors it scummy contributors, I fail to see why you should care.

Could you stop being anti-town?

Of course

I should care. I am a town aligned player and if you have anti town ideas it's my job (and that of the rest of the town) to discuss them. Lynching an inactive player over an active scummy one is a very bad tactic since the goal of the game is to lynch scum.

Can some of the very tiny amount of non-scumbags in this game please comment here.

Could you please stop rolefishing? Thank you. It's bad if you're town, and it makes you looks scummy if you're scum.

No.

Some people say this is a town-town battle.

Ortolan is aparently softclaiming that he has additional information that indicates Im scum.

This means he is lying because Im town.

Do I have to remind you that he fakeclaimed cop recently?

I would vote you right now if it weren't for the fact that ThAdmiral is scum. Seriously, my fingers already jumped to the [,b,],v,o,t,e,:,p,o,p,t,a,j,o,[,/,b and ] keys automatically. I'll try to count to 10, calm down and actually address this.

For the EXACT SAME TIME, you now say 'ortolan is apparently softclaiming blablabla'. He

isn't

. Stop pushing him for a claim. Why would he softclaim you are scum if he did actually hard softclaim that zwet is town? And where do you see him softclaiming.

Ugh it's almost impossible to fight your bad logic.

I don't give a SHIT that he fakeclaimed cop recently. Seriously.

Sorry, I'm frustrated.

[sirdanilot]

oh snap, almost did it again! My fingers already jumped to vote you there, tajo!

Your post 1420 there accomplished ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's COMPLETE FLUFF. So it shows places where ort pushes for your lynch without content? Where he is referencing to previously posted content? So what!? Unless you can prove to us that he in fact hasn't posted the content he is reffering to ANYWHERE AT ALL, the point is completely moot!

A little analogy here: Ort says he has found a black swan, but he keeps showing white swans to everyone. Tajo says 'LOL YOU HAVEN'T FOUND A BLACK SWAN AT ALL U NOOB' and he tries to prove this by showing all the white swans Ort has found.
Obviously this is not logical. He would have to show EVERY SINGLE swan of Ortolan and prove they are all white, in order to prove his case.

So Tajo, unless you can show me ALL of ort's post and show how the content he's referring to is not there, you are posting fluff posts without content and I think I already know where my vote is going at the first possible moment that we have no confirmed scum that is not called poptajo.

Now you HAVE to answer my post 1419. I cannot stand for the consequences if you don't. Seriously.

[sirdanilot]

ebwop:

and he tries to prove this by showing all the white swans

In order to get my point across better, read: 'and he tries to prove this by showing

several

white swans'

[sirdanilot]

@ sirdan:

facepalm.

You asked for posts where ortolan is apparently softclaiming. I gave them to you. Now Ill let everyone analyse those.

I suck at analogies, metaphores and such. Can you tell me the exact reason why you are going to vote me?

How the hell is he softclaiming there?

I have nothing personal against you tajo

I simply need you to die

in order to fulfill my (town) win condition

This seems more like he wants you to die because he thinks you are scum. But okay, at least I can

imagine

here that you would think that's role fishing.

I think you should vote tajo,

he is scum

.

How is this softclaiming.

I have many reasons for concluding tajo is scum

I think you should read more closely

With that he means that you should read his posts to find out his suspicions of tajo. OR: he means that you should read Tajo more closely to find out why he's scum. Neither relate to softclaiming?

Yer I guess it is,

tajo is an obvious lynch

to me

whereas zwet is an obvious mislynch

.

Paraphrase: 'I think tajo should be lynched because he's scum and zwet not because I think he's town'. How is this softclaiming.

I'm very interested to see if you keep going as hard after someone who can defend himself (ThAdmiral) now, tajo.

Heh. Not indicative of anything, though.

You did have a point that I thought you were just randomly showing ortolan comments that were pushing for your lynch, rather than places where you think he 'softclaimed'. But I guess that happens because he DIDN'T SOFTCLAIM.

sirdan, are you a member of the mushroom kingdom?

I answered this already (ort asked). Try again.

i am in the DK Crew actually

lol

My win condition"

I win with the MK

Blah Blah DK died blah blah...Did_ _ K o _ _ is the name.

You have no special powers

Rectify the mistakes of your deceased relative

lol?

Unvote. Vote: millar13
I'm not trusting this claim one single bit. Even if he would be Boo, the 'no special powers' would be a lie, as I doubt there'd be two vanilla roles for Bowser's Army.

*facepalm*

We lynch ThAdmiral first. I won't even begin to address the speculation in this post.

PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS THIS SPECULATION EVERYONE

.

I have never seen a game where scum outted themselves like this not only by slips, but also by the excruciatingly obvious role fishing. Nor a game where town were acting so damn anti town.

[sirdanilot]

Also, I think millar's slip is way worse than ThAdmiral's.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Not as sure as I think millar is scum. ThAdmiral could be confused by his role pm like others were at the start of the game. The fact that he didn't post anything else besides his claim, then coming back on it, and then saying he doesn't understand the game is not in his favor though. I would like to see some sort of real analysis and a list of who he thinks are scummy players before ThAdmiral is lynched.

This post makes me VERY suspicious of WLC.

ThAdmiral has proved

not to know the BA win condition

. So I suppose you just proved the same thing? I can agree that his first claiming post wasn't that scummy (hence the gorrad reaction) but the second one was.

[sirdanilot]

mod: don't the rules state that we get a real vote count now? why did we first get a real vote count and now a visible one?

[sirdanilot]

Not sure why I said that. Mostly frustration I guess. I think I said it because a lot of players are acting anti town, but I am not sure why I called them 'town'. 'Players' would have been more appropriate there.

[sirdanilot]

tajo, wlc, gorrad, zwet to some extent.

[sirdanilot]

Since we are well over the visible amount of votes to lynch, there are surely some people on the wagon with negative real votes.

What does everyone think? Should these people unvote? The good news would be that ThAdmiral would be lynched, the bad news would be that we may out several people with negative votes which might not be beneficial to the town.

Discuss?

[sirdanilot]

Oh, there are probably people with votes that don't count too. But the rules specifically mention that there can be negative amounts of votes. Should these people (if any) unvote or not? Discuss.

[sirdanilot]

I think we should be a bit more careful with the voting thing, since we wouldn't want to out people with double votes.

[sirdanilot]

Meta: Lawrencelot likes to throw in a really really really broken role into random games. See gorrad's role in Grimmmaffia (again Gorrad :/).

To explain my earlier stance on Zwet, /I/ kill with fire. It's one of my many abilities which I can choose from, and I think it's scummy that he has protection from a town kill.

sigh
It's obvious that there will be MK who kill with fire as well. One of their items is the FIREFLOWER ffs.
This doesn't mean I don't believe that you kill with fire. Kamek does that in the games I think. But you are more exception than rule.

vote: millar

[sirdanilot]

Vote millar

^scum here

not for the opportunistic hammer, but for the lack of content.

[sirdanilot]

Sir, go die in a corner. I'm serious, do it.

I had trouble deleting a VERY snide line here.

@Sirdanilot-
What content are you looking for from Caf? Only Gorrad and Ort posted reasons for their millar votes, what makes Caf's vote different from the other 5?

NO. NOT REASONS FOR THE VOTE! Just CONTENT! Content in GENERAL! Look at how I posted content, and mostly everyone BEFORE ME! AND HE DIDN'T! seriously how is this hard to understand?

Vote millar

^scum here

not for the opportunistic hammer, but for the lack of content.

Fail. Do I really need to explain my reasons for voting millar?

my god you scumbag
NO
just CONTENT. You CANT just pop in and say 'vote: the person we were all going to vote anyway' and be done with it! Nothing to say about yesterday? About who else you suspect? NO! BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM!

That said, he wasn't scum... I honestly didn't suspect millar would be town. So. There you have it. GO ANALYZE THIS PEOPLE! If I find the time I will contribute my share. Don't just move on, because this is THE way we are going to find the rest of the scumbags. Like 'caf' for example.

[sirdanilot]

Kast the problem with gorrad is that I've been in the exact situation with him before. A lawrencelot game (grimmmaffia) and gorrad claiming an improbable role where everyone thought he was third party (narrator) and he turned out town with dramatic concequences (after his lynch the game became non reveal... yet the town managed to win) so I am very wary. but maybe I should expect past games in this matter. Gorrad doesn't seem overly scummy playstyle wise though.

Ok empking did the same thing as caf. Empking has been doing that the whole game and I think he has a meta for it. Does that make it less bad? No. But the thing is caf stood out to me because of this. Why didn't he have anything to say? And the same can go for empking as far as I'm concerned. And RBT and zeenon and k7. Wow there are so many useless players in this game.

[sirdanilot]

Has k7 even posted at all the last 10 pages?

mod please replace out k7 while we can before he posts a useless post and denies us the right to replace him out

[sirdanilot]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9646

Look at how utterly bad the 'narrator' role is. I happen to know that lawrencelot usually makes games that are arguably slightly scum balanced, so maybe he decided to overcompensate? Still, I do agree that Gorrad's role might just be a slight bit

too

much...

[sirdanilot]

DAMN YOU!!

[sirdanilot]

I'm liking both gorrad and sirdan as scum right now. I'll put my thoughts together tomorrow.

Why?

[sirdanilot]

vote: Kast

Gut but I'll look to see if I can find something to support it.

lol backwards scumhunting

try again please

[sirdanilot]

I don't really think this sounds like a fakeclaim. It MAY be some kind of third party role but I honestly doubt it.

[sirdanilot]

ortolan k so you believe the claim (I do too) but do you believe in the possibility of gorrad-DK/WW or not and why? Did this recent claim change your previous opinion and why (not)?

[sirdanilot]

Thoughts after rereading all the players still alive:

K7 - 1) He's playing in this game? 2) He isn't dead yet?
Kast - Replaced Cream, who didn't do a whole lot. Kast, however, has done a lot of questioning. Likely town.
ZEEnon - See K7
ortolan - seems to feel cleared after avoiding the lynch D1, but I'm getting somewhat scummy vibes too. However, Gorrad did investigate him and call him town.
Empking - was rather anxious to get past the item knowledge claiming part... I could comfortably place a vote here
caf19 - leaning town... but it's not a very solid feeling right now
Gorrad - I feel like he's more likely to be third-party than town, but it's probably just because I feel his role is really powerful. I don't see him being a lynch today for any reason.
AceMarksman - post 1551... Very likely scum or third-party
sirdanilot - likely town, seems to like a caf lynch a lot though

VOTE:AceMarksman

I'd like to see him lynched today.

Other thoughts: Why the kill on Millar didn't work: You can't kill a boo with fireballs in any Mario game I've ever played.

After a bit more thought, I do believe Ort is town without question.

I feel unsure about both Sirdan and Empking right now.

MOD:

Prod/replace K7/ZEEnon please.

what do you think about the part where AceMarksman more or less confirmed Shadow Knight-scum? In general please elaborate on AceMarksman now that you actually have a purpose.

The comment about the millar night kill is one of the most useful comments you have made in this game... which doesn't say much but still. It's true, you can't kill boos with fire.

Also elaborate on your apparent suspicion of me and empking. Why did you list me as leaning town but also as a suspect...?

[sirdanilot]

sorry I've been busy and found it hard to concentrate on this game. If there's anything specific I should address please tell me.

[sirdanilot]

killa seven, Riceballtail and zEEnon, all so anti-town - at least one scum here

caf19, AceMarksman and sirdanilot all need a re-read, in that order.

How am i antitown?

cause you post short posts

[sirdanilot]

@K7-
Lurking = Anti-town.

Not posting, posting only irrelevant comments, and/or posting extremely short semantic jabs = lurking.

That appears to be typical of your behavior so far. Pretty much the same for Empking and ZEEnon.

How about the three of you join us in playing this game?

So just posting long semantic jabs isn't lurking?

fail

--

not sure what to think of rbt's softclaim

[sirdanilot]

@K7-
Lurking = Anti-town.

Not posting, posting only irrelevant comments, and/or posting extremely short semantic jabs = lurking.

That appears to be typical of your behavior so far. Pretty much the same for Empking and ZEEnon.

How about the three of you join us in playing this game?

So just posting long semantic jabs isn't lurking?

fail

Elaborate.

Kast's post may be long, but they are not 'extremely long semantic jabs'.

Anyway, instead of spending 10 seconds posting that one liner, you could have scumhunted (preferably longer than 10 seconds, but even 10 seconds is better than nothing).

[sirdanilot]

not sure what to think of rbt's softclaim

Wait, what?

that you 'know' I am town implies you have role knowledge others don't have. but if you don't think it's wise to claim that now, don't.

[sirdanilot]

oh regarding rbt that's clearly bullshit

vote: rbt

You have secret role info or something to deduce I am town, but you don't wish to tell? Fine. But if your reasons for thinking I am town are not secret, tell them at once. Or give a good reason not to tell them while scum are watching.

Another possibility might be that you send a letter or something.

[sirdanilot]

oh regarding rbt that's clearly bullshit

vote: rbt

You have secret role info or something to deduce I am town, but you don't wish to tell? Fine. But if your reasons for thinking I am town are not secret, tell them at once. Or give a good reason not to tell them while scum are watching.

Another possibility might be that you send a letter or something.

Well, you left a breadcrumb, and I double-checked it with other information from players, and was able to, from that information, decide that you absolutely have to be what I think your role is. It is five letters, is it not?

And no, I have absolutely no secret information, or any role/ability/item/power that gave me this information. The only reason I am trying to be vague is that I think your role would be more useful if the scum don't know it.

unvote

Thanks for saying it's useful if the scum don't know it.... :/

rbt is not cleared btw but less suspicious

[sirdanilot]

Empking, I cannot possibly prove that you don't scumhnunt. However, you can prove that you have scumhunted, by giving us a couple of quotes of you scumhunting. Burden of proof is with you.

[sirdanilot]

@Empking-
-Post an example of me calling you scummy for posting a new point.

-Please try to be consistent. I pointed out that your post failed to address the post it was responding to. You answered that you were making a new point. If you are making a new point instead of addressing the old point, then you are not addressing that old point.

-I have pointed out the examples but here again for your convenience:

I posted a series of thoughts about you. Instead of addressing them, you called me a liar without any elaboration. On further clarification, it turns out you don't understand the meaning of the word implicit and so thought that I was lying. In either event, you attempted to avoid answering my points by calling me a liar (the straw man).

Liar

Emp, please post more than one-word responses... if you only say "Liar", I can't exactly work out what you are referring to or why you believe he's lying. It doesn't help your case.

Still more of the same from killa and Zee, we're coming to a bit of an impasse here...

You think I only post onre word responses?

<caf gives example>

You think people should never ever respond to a point with one word?

VOTE: EMPKING

[sirdanilot]

Not sure about voting K7. I don't want to remove a ll attention off empking... And why would be simply bandwagon everyone to a claim. Doesn't that give scum too much info?

There's also zeenon by the way, as far as useless players are concerned.

[sirdanilot]

We have tried to get k7 replaced before, but he will just pop in with a retarded one liner and disappear again. It's useless.

Please mod, be quicker this time with replacing k7.

[sirdanilot]

oh no, a prod. now he will surely come in...

[sirdanilot]

this weeks will be busy for me

[sirdanilot]

The problem here is that nobody seems to be actively scumhunting, which is why we are policy lynching. I really don't have the time for this game right now... Sorry. I'll try to come up with more some time.

[sirdanilot]

It's not a policy lynch though, it's a mislynch.

I could actually vote you (despite your earlier support of me), or killa seven (or possibly someone else if I ever get around to a re-read). I see no reason to get a claim out of him at this stage in the game, he's always very anti-town in my experience.

why vote me? now make a case against me!

or were you talking about someone else?

[sirdanilot]

ort I still like to see why emp is town in this game

[sirdanilot]

NO DON'T PROD HIM

Just 'forget' to prod him, then when it's time, immediately replace him out. Make sure you already have a standby replacement to avoid him popping up again.

[sirdanilot]

...silence in a large theme game?

[sirdanilot]

@k7 - You are not funny. You are not helping. You know what you are? You are a big

troll

. You are purposefully trying to ruin this game by posting just enough to avoid prods, and showing that you do have the time to post and play, but by purposefully not actually playing and only showing minimal behaviour to stay in the game.

To me, you are hardly any better than Gimbo or the like. Stop purposefully ruining games. You have the time to post? Then post. You don't have the time? Get the hell out.

There is no pride in being a spammer or a troll. It just makes you look very, very sad. Stop wasting everyone's time.

mod

: Although not in your rules, I am sure that you do have the liberty to kick out spammers, flamers and trolls. I think that k7's behaviour falls undert he category of trolling/intentionally ruining games.

[sirdanilot]

How the hell am i being a troll? you asked the mod to not prod me which is part of the rules, what am i suppose to say? im not "spamming" or trolling.

Who cares if I asked the mod not to prod you? I did that

because

you are trolling.

It's not so much you are spamming, it's that you are ruining the fun of others by intentionally not participating.

Want to prove you are not a sad troll who spends most of his life in front of the computer? Then answer these questions.

1. Who do you think is scum?
2. Why are you not voting Empking?
4. Why are you not voting anyone, in fact? Do you not suspect anyone?
5. What is your alignment? What is your win condition?

There's probably a whole lot more, but at least this is going to be some sort of a start.

If you refuse to answer this, then congratulations, you will have earned the award of being the saddest person on the internet. Or alternatively just replace out and at least get us a deadline extension.

[sirdanilot]

uh zee this is horrible


I know that I havent been putting major effort into this game either, but you refuse to do any kind of scumhunting whatsoever. instead you try to protect yourself with your negative vote. try to defend yourself as much as possible, but don't use your negative vote since it will only make you more suspicious.

instead give us a fos on the person you find the most scummy (more or less counting as a vote).

just try ok

[sirdanilot]

are we going to force zeenon to claim or not? I am not sure since we already got an empking claim, however the negative vote thing is iffy.

I am pretty sure this game is very scum dominated since it has become very inactive. How different was it back earlier, when I had to read 10 extra pages that had popped up while reading the game, and every day I could hardly keep up reading the game because there was like one page a day... now it's only a few posts if even that.

The only way to change this would be a very intensive investigation. I think that at least one of the people most of us consider town (ace, ortolan) are scum. However this is just a hunch that I cannot back up with info others don't have.

[sirdanilot]

Narrator was overpowered in favor of the scum (even though it was a town role).

Zeenon how was that scummy.

[sirdanilot]

mod: replace k7 please

k7 is ridiculously guilty of not playing up to his win condition. What oh what can we do to punish him and remove his disgraceful presence from this site? I do not think he deserves to be lynched. All he deserves is a replacement, or at worst a modkill.

mod: please modkill k7 due to not playing up to his win condition

[sirdanilot]

Law will always include fakeclaims for scum. just saying

My vote was apparently 0 yesterday, now it's 1.

[sirdanilot]

And I'm for massclaiming too. Let's think of how we are going to do it first, though.

Maybe the person who started should say who should claim next?

I would say let k7 go first but since he is just a lifeless and sad troll not actually playing in this game that could be wishful thinking.

wow, I hope I never ever have to see his face on this site again. He blatantly doesn't do what he promises. Seriously can it get any worse?

[sirdanilot]

k thanks for the claim. so you are basically vanilla?

maybe we can ask k7 a question regarding the items he has or something since he claims to have the items. just like poptajo did day 1. I don't believe he answered a question back then. thoughts everyone?

Ok guys what claiming order are we going to use? Want a random order? Just get the player list on page 1. Or do we let k7 now decide who should claim? Please lets clarify this before continuing.

[sirdanilot]

why does he need to vote himself ortolan? do you want to check his vote or something?

[sirdanilot]

Why me tomorrow? Who do you think you are, planning tomorrow's lynch without having even posted a case on me, and actually said your suspicion was solely due to 'process of elimination' which you didn't elaborate on?

[sirdanilot]

the microgoomba thing is correct as of Super Mario Bros 3. Lawrencelot played that game a lot and is likely to remember such a detail. The claim fits, except for one thing: Wouldn't K7 have a -1 vote?

I prefer not to claim, but if you guys do want me to then that's okay. As you may remember, RBT seemed to have some knowledge about me though. What if we let RBT claim his knowledge about me first? But it's of course up to you guys.

[sirdanilot]

All I know is that Lawrencelot provides safeclaims to scum (I think they are just rolenames, but I don't know).

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-killa seven (3): AceMarksman, Riceballtail, killa seven
-Gorrad (1): Kast

Not voting (5): caf19, ZEEnon, ortolan, Gorrad, sirdanilot

With 9 alive it takes 5 real votes to lynch.

[sirdanilot]

Okay so now we are supposed to have a real votecount right?

[sirdanilot]

There's no real vote count and I happen to know Lawrencelot did check this game.

Meaning we have a liar?

[sirdanilot]

hey you know what

MOD: IS IT NOT YET TIME FOR A REAL VOTECOUNT AND WHY?

[sirdanilot]

so can we lynch killah seven now?

Wait hold on

RBT has a vote of 0 right? Meaning K7 has a vote of one? If not, k7 has a vote of 0 as he claimed. But didn't acemarksman claim that he could lower the vote with one?

Doesn't this mean acemarksman is lying?

I am willing to hammer only if we sort everything out first. But what happened with massclaiming then?

[sirdanilot]

ZEEnon is not obv-town at all IMO, but not scummy.

I hate how Ortolan is trying to dictate the claiming order and the lynches of both today and tomorrow. I am beginning to think he is scum. But Kast was even worse in dictating a claiming order while also advocating a random one. If you want to dictate a random claiming order, do so by in-thread dice roll or something.

Who is next? Should I make a fully random dice-rolled claiming order?

[sirdanilot]

Ebwop: One exception though. My claim and RBT's are tied, in a way that I want him to claim first. This is because he claimed to know my role name.

I don't think there are any other situations like that?

[sirdanilot]

I told you that lawrence always includes ridiculous roles. I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO.

I haven't claimed yet. Should I claim? But I am very much willing to lynch ortolan, solely because of scumtells. IMO he should claim first, but I am willing to go first if everyone wants me to.

I think it's ridiculous that ortolan is still alive, while he says crap such as 'I intend to vote for RBT today' while I haven't even claimed yet while it is obvious our claims are tied.

alive:

-Cream147 Kast - not that scummy
-Riceballtail - tied with me
-Surye ZEEnon - not scummy
-ortolan - scum
-AceMarksman - disappeared. would very much appreciate him being replaced out asap.
-sirdanilot - me

MOD: PLEASE REPLACE/PROD ACEMARKSMAN

[sirdanilot]

I was away over the weekend.

Ok let's see. I am a SPINY. Anyone who jumps on me dies, and I survive. My vote counts for 1 (except for on day 4 or 5 when it was lowered, don't remember which of those it was, but the mod made a mistake). I win when everyone not in BA is dead.

RBT: I don't know where I made a 'breadcrumb' except for my flavour claim of when I jumped into the game?

Who needs to claim now? Acemarksman? Ort?

Also ort I actually didn't realize that gorrad's death meant you were confirmed. But you are not really 100% confirmed because of the possibility of investigation influencing factors like sanity etc.

[sirdanilot]

Well I suppose Ort can be trusted for now then.

[sirdanilot]

rbt answer his questions please.

[sirdanilot]

due to a family emergency I wil have to request at least temporary replacement out of my games.