MKM II GAME OVER

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm currently reading the thread. But I'm best man at a wedding coming Thursday, and still have loads of things to arrange, so I don't know when I can come with a decent analysis.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Got to page 11 with reading. At this point I suspect AceMarksman the most. I do think tajo's claiming proposition was kinda bad, but the way AceMarksman responded was a bit scummier in my opinion. Also, he was immediately claiming not to be able to buy items, which seems more like an excuse to not be tested somehow. I won't vote yet, as I didn't read pages 11 to 16, but will get back after that.

Also, wouldn't it be possible to have multiple uninformed groups? The way things are switched here, and with four parties, anything might be possible.

I myself have item descriptions, 2 generic, and 4 for Bowser's Army. Maybe there's something we can do with the coins the items cost?

I really don't have time anymore now, hope to be back with some more tomorrow.

[WeyounsLastClone]

WLC - how many items cant be redirected?

Sorry for not answering sooner. Had a wedding all day yesterday, which left me much too tired (and drunk) to do something useful.

One of bowser's castles items specifically mentions it can't be redirected. That item has an 'even' cost.

I still don't know what to think of all the people who say they don't have item descriptions. I think the first post specifically lists which factions can use which items. I'd doubt if further distinction would be made, but there could be special roles. But then I'd think you'd have an additional role, and not completely ignoring items.

Also, I kinda think Lawrencelot would've build in some sort of safety against us using item descriptions to confirm townies. But I guess outguessing the mod doesn't get us any further.

[WeyounsLastClone]

And maybe I have a question for 'tajo:

How many extra words does the description of the second bowser's castle item have compared to the first? (you may count the word with the ' in it as one word)

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Gorrad (2): Empking, ortolan
-zwetschenwasser (2): Shinnen_no_Me, AceMarksman
-Empking (1): zwetschenwasser
-killa seven (1): qwints
-ortolan (2): populartajo, Shadow Knight
-Cream147 (1): semioldguy
-Shadow Knight (1): Moratorium

Not voting (5): killa seven, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Standard fare, raise your hand if you think this question is useless or gives scum too much info or whatever.

If it gave too much info, then the damage is done already, so...

Anyway, I think there's already more than enough info given about our items to the mafia.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Ort, how about you answer this question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

What is the value of "x"?

I know Moratorium already mentioned it, but I want to support his notion that this question shouldn't be answered. I'd also find it bad if someone went and answered this question taking 'tajo as some sort of authority.

I think a 'bomb' inherently would make scum feel awkward when it is in their possession, so this extra information is not necessary.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Is Ort right?

I hate self-quoting... What do you mean with this question?

[WeyounsLastClone]

two

That's not what I make it. Either you are scum or misunderstood the question, which is possible because it is slightly open to interpretation. Perhaps this will help: Is the poison shroom one of the 'two' in your answer?

If you're going to ask the questions you should definitely pay more attention and avoid coming up with ambiguous ones. The poison shroom is not one, however if you read the text of the first and second items, the text of the second item implies that this applies to the first item (as well as the last one)

Please can you be more concise and less ambiguous?
Can we ask him another question?

I think Ortolan explained clearly enough what he's talking about. Explaining more concise and less ambigious would give scum more information than necessary. I think the question by caf19 was bad enough for town to start with.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Okay, first SK says he doesn't have item descriptions, but somehow seems to know about the letter and what it does. Then he has a ridiculous claim.

I don't know why tajo doesn't want to lynch SK, but I think the two reasons above are enough to warrant my vote.

Vote: Shadow Knight.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Now be quiet, commenting on NKs is scummy.

If something strange happens during the night, why is it scummy to discuss it? I'll agree that overanalyzing and misinterpreting nightkills isn't very fruitful, but Moratorium makes a valid point that no one from Bowser's army was killed.

That said, maybe quints actually was Bowser's Army, but a special power made him look like Mushroom Kingdom (although his after death reaction would be a bit strange in that regard). It would also explain why qwints could answer an item question.

[WeyounsLastClone]

A weak attack coming for zwet is understandable but a weak attack coming for a player I respect only means one thing.

I will answer every accusation you brought to the table, ort. Until you eat your words.

Unvote Vote : ortolan.

OMGUS much? I agree that the votes on you are kind of unwarranted, but immediately switching to ortolan after he votes you feels a bit childish.

[WeyounsLastClone]

At first I found Gorrad a bit overanxious to hear from sirdan, but now his silence is a bit awkward (not that I have posted much, but I think it's different from someone who joined from outside the game). Still, I find Gorrad's reactions a bit off.

I don't think tajo is from the Mushroom Kingdom, and I don't really like his wagon. Somehow I suspect him to be Wario or something.

Someone else who I find scummy because he's being opportunistic is caf19.

I know about his meta and the shallow waters blah blah, but seriously, zwet is scummy. Now that he's not 'confirmed' anymore , I can't help but note that he is 'playing up' to his meta. He is tunneling with woefully inadequate reasoning, purposefully exaggerating the aggressiveness and dumbness of his posts in order that people will go 'oh, it's just zwet being zwet'. And it seems to be working - a decent wagon is building up on tajo. I'm not really a fan of the tajo wagon, he's too much of an easy target. (and so is zwet, you might respond, except that nobody is going after zwet...)

Feels a bit like if tajo pops up town, he can say 'i told you so', and then go after zwet. He rubbed me wrong day 1 too, but I can't pinpoint exactly what. Hope to do a reread this weekend.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@ Gorrad: why would you automatically infer that when you didn't create sirdanilot in this game, it'd mean scum created it? I don't think there are magic users in the Mushroom Kingdom that could summon a Toad or something. It would be too powerful if scum could summon new players that easily. If it costs a lot of coins as you say, I doubt anyone could buy it first night. That said, if you're really Kamek, I don't like how you exposed your self from the getgo day 2 by focusing on sirdanilots appearance. Kamek seems like a powerful role, and now you're an easy target.

@Ace: Do you have coins?

I know at least that in my role PM, it specifically outlines what immunities I do and do not have.

This quote actually makes me feel zwets could be right with his claim, but was a bit cautious in wording it.

And I would like some more serious posts by Empking and Looker.

For now I'll

vote: Gorrad.

because I doubt someone who had that as a real role would have acted like Gorrad did day 2.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I suppose with a 1-up shroom they can bring a MK killed person back to life. A star would imply some kind of invulnerability alltogether. Seems enough for scum to me without also having the power to bring even more people in.

And if I don't believe Gorrad, I think it's good to lynch him. Situations like 'it's going to show sooner or later' only lead to WIFOM and useless discussions and can be used by scum to manipulate town.

Gorrad's last post certainly is funny. At least he's doing the thinking for me. you're voicing you're suspicion of me, but why exactly? It certainly isn't because I'm voting you, right?

[WeyounsLastClone]

I suppose with a 1-up shroom they can bring a MK killed person back to life. A star would imply some kind of invulnerability alltogether. Seems enough for scum to me without also having the power to bring even more people in.

If you think the 1-up mushroom can bring dead scum back to life is there a reason that now alive scum wouldn't just "jump in?" If the same player came back I think it would make that person a near auto lynch if they died as scum.

Stupid, I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. It wouldn't bring back the same player, but another player could take over a role that was previously killed. Anyway, I doubt scum would/could use a 1-up shroom night 1.

[WeyounsLastClone]

You're you? AKA scummy as sin. That AND, keep in mind, our LAST scum also claimed a kind of immunity. One of the Mushroom Kingdom items is a Fireflower. If it kills, you'd know that it kills with fire if you were scum, so you could know how to make the fakeclaim.

There's also a small role-based tidbit I'll share tomorrow.

Nice scumclaim.

How is it a scumclaim? I'm not sure, but posting more than two words won't hurt you.

[WeyounsLastClone]

zwet is town.

If zwet himself can't, can you explain why zwet is town?

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm not one to really point out on lurking, as I've done it quite a lot myself, but I was rereading the threat and got a bad feeling with ZEEnon's posts.

For example:

I'd vote Shadow Knight if I could.. why isn't he lynched yet?

Couple of his posts later (which are almost always neutral comments)

I have a feeling that Shadow Knight is sided with the Bowser.
Can everyone on his wagon justify their vote?

His last post was almost a week ago, so I hope he can come back and have little bit more input.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@ZEEnon: As far as I reread, you didn't mention V/LA in this thread, nor is it in your signature. The fact that you don't post at all, unless you're called in question is noted.

@zwet: I don't know if you mean me with swaying with general town opinion, but if you do you're wrong. I'm currently the only one voting Gorrad, and looking at ZEEnon isn't particularly what town was doing anyway. Following town opinion at this point would be voting you.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I find the idea a bit strange that lots of people would have bought an item already, considering the amount I started with.
@ Gorrad, you probably can't explain, but why would you be able to have items when you can't use them? To me it seems a bit of an excuse by you on the 'having hands and should actually be able to hold items' thing.
I agree with Gorrad though that what Mora brings up on qwints again isn't really helpful at this point. Even it's the truth (but it seems a bit farfetched) it doesn't help too much.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I really hate how looker acts like a complete idiot just to piss people off...

I know I shouldn't laugh because of this, but I did...

[WeyounsLastClone]

I am Boo and I have no special powers...so I can't tell you anything useful ortolan

Unvote. Vote: millar13.

I'm not trusting this claim one single bit. Even if he would be Boo, the 'no special powers' would be a lie, as I doubt there'd be two vanilla roles for Bowser's Army.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Also, I think millar's slip is way worse than ThAdmiral's.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Also, I think millar's slip is way worse than ThAdmiral's.

Do you not think ThAdmiral is scum?

Not as sure as I think millar is scum. ThAdmiral could be confused by his role pm like others were at the start of the game. The fact that he didn't post anything else besides his claim, then coming back on it, and then saying he doesn't understand the game is not in his favor though. I would like to see some sort of real analysis and a list of who he thinks are scummy players before ThAdmiral is lynched.

[WeyounsLastClone]

FoS: WLC

We've caught scum and have an 11 person bandwagon on him, yet you choose not to join it? Is yours and ThAdmrial's win condition the same?

I'd rather have ThAdmiral post more on his thoughts before he is lynched. In the likely case he's scum, it might be something he says something that's useful. If he actually turns out town, we at least have the thoughts of a townie player.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I also think a negative vote would be the result of some sort of role or action.

Scum with a negative vote can just leave their vote on ThAdmiral. Town with a negative vote who actually want to lynch ThAdmiral would definitely unvote. A townie who doesn't want to lynch ThAdmiral and who is voting him should say so and not secretly have a negative vote. Because of this I think at least townies don't know they have a negative vote.

And I'd be pretty stupid to be defending ThAdmiral if he and I were scumbuddies. I just want him to leave a bit more thoughts before he's lynched. And I still think millar has a higher chance of being scum than ThAdmiral (although both are very likely scum).

[WeyounsLastClone]

Well, I guess it's a bit pointless with my lonely vote on millar and ThAdmiral not coming back to post. I think millar proved himself to be scum. Also ZEEnon really needs to post something. But for the progress of the game I suppose

unvote. Vote: ThAdmiral.

is the best.

Mod: not counted, there are enough votes for a lynch

[WeyounsLastClone]

Hmm, too bad millar voted together with me, now we lose information on how votes are counted.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Well played scum! For some reason I couldn't believe Gorrad's role was real. And he shouldn't have killed me of course (but I admit my play was erratic at best, still I wasn't really anti-town in my opinion).