MKM II GAME OVER

[populartajo]

My role stresses that I become a normal goomba once my bubble is broken. I assume that means I gain the ability to buy items.

What is the reason your role gives specifically for not being able to buy items?

This.

[populartajo]

Kay, Ive decided that ShadowKnight shouldnt be lynched today.

Please more Looker votes.

We can do it.

[populartajo]

Kay, Ive decided that ShadowKnight shouldnt be lynched today.

Please more Looker votes.

We can do it.

I completely disagree. SK should by lynched today

Why?

[populartajo]

For ease of use, please post a case against Looker. (I honestly didn't know that was a player in this game till I realized he was on my wagon.)

Lurking.

[populartajo]

No, please dont let deadline make a prob bad decision. My gut tells me that SK is telling the truth.

Law, we cant have a deadline since Cream needs a replacement. According to the deadline rules, we cant have a deadline with a player needing a replacement.

[populartajo]

You mean a deadline extension, right?

Yep, this too.

[populartajo]

You're right. We're too close to deadline for me to try and screw around.

According to my role PM.

I am a bubble goomba.
I will survive the first kill an invader hits me with, but it will pop my bubble and make me a normal goomba.
Certain attacks* will kill me outright
I have 1 coin.
I am unable to buy items.
Night 4 I "land" and my bubble pops regardless.

Through my communicating with Law, I know that I *may* get a new PM when I become a normal goomba but he didn't guarantee it. I *may* be able to spend my coin on something at that point. I *may* have more coins at that point. It *may* have something to do with floating around in a bubble. Are you catching a theme here?

I

really

dont see anyone fakeclaiming like that.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Shadow Knight (5): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints, semioldguy
-ortolan (3): AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Looker (2): caf19, populartajo

Not voting (7): killa seven, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Empking, Shadow Knight

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch. Deadline: May 4th 2009.

[populartajo]

I don't like this steadfast defense of SK by tajo.

FoS: populartajo

Seems like scum buddying to me.

Its my opinion. Feel free to disagree but that doesnt make me scum.

You really think SK is fakeclaiming all that information? Last game, scum only got the name of roles that werent in the town side.

[populartajo]

But he didn't volunteer that information. He only came up with after he was caught in a mistake.

What mistake?

[populartajo]

We may as well see if we all share the ability to hold and use items.

unvote, vote: SK

Players without item descriptions can't use items either.

My role stresses that I become a normal goomba once my bubble is broken. I assume that means I gain the ability to buy items.

Sk implied he could use items. Ace said he was wrong. SK said he was only making an assumption. SK was mistaken that players without descriptions could use items (unless Ace is lying.)

Which is why we precisely need someone like Gorrad or the other guy to confirm this.

[populartajo]

pop makes a good point, but SK also contradicts himself several times with his claim.

Unvote; Vote: SK

That's L-1, I think.

Show me these contradictions plz.

[populartajo]

Oh, and

unvote

until I figure out who I should be voting here.

Sorry, I missed it.

unvote

Any new suspicions?

Yes, you.

Waiting for SK to answer the questions posed to him.

[populartajo]

Looker is suspicious?

Yes, you too.

[populartajo]

Ace, your PM sayd that you cant use items or that you cant buy item, or both?

[populartajo]

Also, how is looker suspicious?

Lurking.

Promised a post but havent done so.

His first post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.

Playing the retard card, even though I know Looker is not retarded.

His predecesor, Shinnen, comploted against the plan and refused to colaborate.

[populartajo]

Do you remember if Yoshi could be able to hold coins?

I might need to check it if you dont.

[populartajo]

Ace, your PM sayd that you cant use items or that you cant buy item, or both?

[populartajo]

Role-related reasons.
________________________________

Question for anyone:

Do you think that the scum have fake claims?

________________________________

I do.

The other game, Law gave scum only the name of town roles that were not in the game. Scum had to fabricate the powers.

Thats why I really think SK isnt fabricating its role and therefore he is telling the truth.

I could be wrong but my gut tells me he is indeed a goomba in a bubble, which, IMO, is not a ridiculous claim.

[populartajo]

Ace, your PM sayd that you cant use items or that you cant buy item, or both?

Ace, please answer this.

[populartajo]

I just replaced into this game a little while ago, populartajo.
Wanna do me a favour and list all the suspicions you have, as well as the reasoning for those suspicions?

My three suspects were ort, SK and Looker(Shinnen). All these three guys were against or showed antipathy for a plan that until now has confirmed some people as prob Bowser Army.

Ort was my heaviest attacker. He even voted me, then refused to collaborate, then attacked me for weak reasons, to finally confirm that he prob has item descriptions in his PM. Im still not sure about this since the question and the answer were ambiguous enough. I propose he uses a letter today to prove that he indeed has item descriptions in his PM unless someone else thinks in a question that he can answer clearly.

SK also showed antipathy for the plan cuz he didnt have item description in his PM. Voted Surye for being "confused" when reading his PM when the logical reaction was to be confused. Also voted Ort following my reasons to vote him. However, he has claimed "goomba in a bubble", a claim that I really see hard to fakeclaim considering the amount of information he gave us. My gut tells me this guy is legit.

Shinnen also comploted against my plan thinking. Looker replaced and then concentrated bizarrely in the ort-SK dilemma, voting SK without having read the thread, (he even admits that when I asked him the questions about the items description in his PM). He now is lurrking.

After these guys, there are people like zwet and Empking that SHOULDNT stay alive until endgame, even if they are town. I really thinki the people in the "I have item description" list is prob town and that we should lynch people systematically in the "refusing to" and "I dont have item descriptions" lists. Since Ort and SK dont feel as optymal lynches as they were before, I REALLY think that Looker is the lynch of the day.

This is pretty much my current reasoning in the game.

[populartajo]

Ok, Ive been thinking in this. I need to evaluate other responses to my reasoning.

As every game of mafia that has vanilla townies, this game also should have at least a group of townies sharing the same PM.

Last game the Toads were the vanilla versions of the game. Im assuming this time, the Goombas are the vanilla versions of the game. SK, if you are indeed a Goomba, can you paraphrase your win conditions and flavor?

This is also a reason why I think SK is legit, but first I need to confirm this piece of information.

[populartajo]

ort has done enough to justify his survival now.

SK isn't entirely incriminated by Ace and Gorrad's convictions since the possibitilty of him telling the truth is still there. On the other hand, his defences do have something of a 'retrospective' feel to them. After being called out for slipping, he just goes 'oh, um, I was only assuming that', something he didn't mention before, and continues on...

So, I still think Looker is the best choice, but SK probably isn't a bad one either. Given Looker's out-of-the-blue unvote of SK, there's a chance they could both be scum.

I tend to agree with the post.

Look, I really dont know what to make of SK. My gut tells me he is telling the truth with his claim. When I said scum had elaborate claims I meant that usually scum dont claim a simple role like goomba in a bubble. A reason I thought why this claim could be legit is cuz I tought that the vanilla version of this game were Goombas. For reference, in the other game, scum had fakeclaims like Dr. Mario and at the beginning they didnt know that the Toads were the vanillas of the game. However, if Goombas arent the vanillas of the game, then who are the vanillas of this game?

But yeah, all the people asking for SK lynch cant be all scum and I agree there is something fishy with his claim. So there is not much I can do now.

The only thing I want is that I definitely want Looker to comment on this before SK is lynched.

[populartajo]

@Ortolan- I'm not claiming what attacks kill me outright simply because you want to know.

@Tajo- to loosely paraphrase my win condition, I win when all invaders are dead.

Paraphrase all your flavor.

[populartajo]

Updated

People with items description

Prob Bowser's Army
Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
semioldguypacman
Zeenon
Moratorium
WLC
Ortolan* (if the majority thinks ort should be here then speak)

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight
Empking (reason for his SK vote)

Refusing to

Looker
K7
Cream
Rice

Whats wrong with these guys?

Looker
K7
Cream
Rice

Prod prod prod. Replace replace replace

[populartajo]

So, this is the situation. SK lynch is inevitable right now and he is already prob lynched, assuming we have a double voter in the wagon.

Plz, in case Im not going to be with you guys tomorrow and regardless of SK's flip, you HAVE to lynch Looker tomorrow.

[populartajo]

I also disapprove of tajo attempting to redirect votes to another player as a result, solely because of their "lurking" (on day one).

Ortolan's defense of Looker is also noted.
You think its normal that his first post of the day is a vote for SK without reading the game? What do you think of his unvote? Why hasnt he answered my questions yet or commented as a normal replacement would do?

[populartajo]

Not all of the fake claims from last game were elaborate. For reference last game they were: Dr. Mario, Shy Guy, Paper Mario, Rosalina, Baby Luigi and Bob-omb.

Of course they were elaborate. They are not vanillas, they hint PRs.

They did know that "Toad" was the vanilla of last game. From one of the Bowser PM's last game: "But because you are all disguised as a Toad, it might be better to pretend that you’re a Toad."

Yes, but this doesnt mean they could infer 100% that Toads were the vanillas of the game.

No one should answer this.

Im evaluating this. One of the strategies to own scum in MKMI was to use the vanilla role as a way to semiconfirm people with the same vanilla role, kinda like we are using the item descriptions claim right now.

[populartajo]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

qwints, Yoshi (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1.

Problem.

Indeed. What was the question that qwints answered?

[populartajo]

Hi all, I'm replacing Cream.

I read through the game prior to replacing in and I have a pro-town impression from Moratorium, Ortolan, and Semioldguy.

Cream didn't claim about items, I'm guessing part of it is because cream also cannot buy or use any items.

Also, Qwints has flipped mushroom kingdom, but Qwints is one of the players who had bowser's army items (or rather information on those items).

But SK was also mushroom kingdom but did not (or claimed to not) have bowser's army information.

We didn't have a night 0 (game started in Day 1 if I'm reading everything correctly), so possibly only some of Mushroom Kingdom had item descriptions and did not have a chance to share it?

Hi, Kast.
Why do you have a protown impresion of these players?
No comments of me?

[populartajo]

Vote: Sirdanilot

Why are you now in this game? Tell the truth or die.

He prob doesnt know it.

Sirdanilot, tell us your first impression of the game regarding your PM. It would be more useful if you comment on this before rereading the game.

This is a good start of this day. Ill reread for qwints and SK intereactions but for now.

Vote : Looker.

[populartajo]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

qwints, Yoshi (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1.

Problem.

I am going to comb through the thread really closely and make sure there was no way for him to somehow deduce this.

Please do so. You are good on that.

[populartajo]

@Tajo-
-I think you are probably protown and your decision to push for the item claiming and force it through seems earnest.

I didn't like your attitude towards semioldguy testing your item knowledge. I think he had valid points and valid reason to doubt you. Once you finally showed that you did have knowledge of the items, he acknowledged that.

Overall a pro-town read, but tainted by what I see as a childish reaction.

-I have a positive impression of the other three because I felt they were being both earnest and very rational.

Can you explain why did you find out ortolan very rational?

[populartajo]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

qwints, Yoshi (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1.

Problem.

Indeed. What was the question that qwints answered?

First question of the night.

Drumroll

qwints, out of these two items: green shell and red shell, which costs more and by how?

Arg. This implies that scum do have item descriptions but then why did SK didnt claim he had them?

[populartajo]

Vote: poptajo

Nightkill proves that yesterday was a calculated scum gambit.

WTF?

[populartajo]

Something else that needs to be addressed:

- No one from Bowser's Army died last night.
- Someone from Mushroom Kingdom died last night.

Three possibilities that I can see:

1) qwints was nightkilled by his own faction. Implausible gambit at this stage, but the gambit would be the scum attempting to spread confusion about the makeup of the game and the various factions by sacrificing one of its own. 1/10.

2) Scum nightkill did not occur for one of many different reasons. qwints was killed by a non-scum entity. 6/10.

3) There is more than one uninformed faction in this game. 3/10.

I think I was pretty clear to establish that wario and dk were also third party factions. Its prob that they have another win conditions as they did in MKMI.

I dont think there is other uninformed faction in the game since everyone seems to establish that Bowser's army is the uninformed majority.

But why qwints, why of all the people that were in that list they picked qwints?

[populartajo]

Don't try to fool me, scum.

No, no, explain your vote before I vote you and hunt your soul till you are dead.

[populartajo]

Only a scum would realize that they could manipulate the town into confirming them by pushing the idea that scum wouldn't have item descriptions.

Why did you suppor the plan then?

And why did SK came up scum then?

[populartajo]

Why do we need to know the setup D2? Find scum. Lynch them. Town win. Yay. And qwints' death pretty much screwed up Tajo's plan.

Sadly, yes. At least we got a scum there.

There is something that doesnt fit.

Qwints was scum. He answered satisfactorily the question asked to him, meaning that he had item descriptions in his PM.

Shadowkinght was scum. He claimed to not have item descriptions.

This can only mean that some scum did have item descriptions in D1. But how many? Only qwints?

[populartajo]

LYNCH POPTAJO

Find a corner and sit in it.

+1.

Mod, where is Looker?

[populartajo]

Well Gorrad, I can understand where you come from but I dont think nk speculatiuon hurts a game like this when there are no explicit doctors and very vital information can be obtained of these events.

[populartajo]

Well, this is the situation right now.

We exactly dont know if all scum had item descriptions fromm Bowser Army in their posts. The mos probable scenario that also deals with the fact that SK was scum but didnt have item descriptions is that some scum did get intem descriptions in their PM and some scum didnt.

This rule is important:

2) The game will start in Day 1.

So its safe to assume that scum didnt communicate in night 0 since there wasnt night 0.

Another likely scenario is that qwints guessed his answer with a)pure gold luck or b)information of his own items.

This quotes are important.

The relatively small number of people objecting to the item claiming plan makes me wonder if it consists entirely of scum.

Still analizing this.

Also, I think ortolan has been more honest in his intentions than ShadowKnight.
Since apparently, one of them must be scum:
unvote, vote Shadowknight

Why there had to be scum between ortolan and Shadowknight? This is the same fallacy Looker used to vote for Shadow Knight. It just doesnt feel well and it feels like qwintsscum decided to bus Shadowknight in the hopes of clearing ortolan.

Its also remarkable that qwints has an obsession with me. He votes me, foses me and this quote looks terribly bad, like trying to set me up, knowing that SK would flip scum.

By my count we're back at L-2 in visible votes.

Still gonna try to save SK, tajo?

My scumhunting powers say that Looker and ortolan should be the next people dying in this game.

[populartajo]

A weak attack coming for zwet is understandable but a weak attack coming for a player I respect only means one thing.

I will answer every accusation you brought to the table, ort. Until you eat your words.

Unvote Vote : ortolan.

[populartajo]

I will answer every accusation you brought to the table, ort. Until you eat your words.

Um, ok, so where is the answer to all the stuff I wrote in 973 then?

You think it will take five minutes to answer to that pile of shit?
Im working on it.
Dont worry.

[populartajo]

I shall refrain from any "I told you so" at this stage.

Why? Maybe because you knew that scum

did

have item descriptions? Now that we know that some scum did have item descriptions but some didnt, do you think its more likely that town would know that scum did have item descriptions or not?

]tajo, now as I said yesterday tajo did tell us he had a "gut belief" in SK's claim which didn't seem to have much basis.

well, silly billy, gut precisely cant have much basis. Thats because its called GUT, ya know?

And as I pointed out in 864, his justification for believing the claim was contradictory.

And as I pointed out in, I explained why this wasnt contradictory in 872. Did you miss it for some reason?

Plus he tried to redirect votes to another wagon, Looker's, solely on the basis of "lurking", which is a very weak justification for a day one wagon, especially when one compares it to the now flipped-scum SK wagon.

False.
My case on Looker in 832 is not solely "lurking".

Case on Looker, posted in Lurking.
Promised a post but havent done so.
His first post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.
Playing the retard card, even though I know Looker is not retarded.
His predecesor, Shinnen, comploted against the plan and refused to colaborate.

You think Looker is town, ort?

That said I do not think he is scummy alone for the suggestion of mass-claiming.

Flase again. You did when you tried to get me lynched in D1. Try again.

See, yesterday, while you were voting me for opposing a mass-claim plan as being useless which has since turned out to be...useless, I was busy catching scum.

You were opposing to a plan that was not useless yesterday. It has been proven useless today. How did you know it was useless yesterday? Unless you are scum of course and you knew it was useless since D1.

In that logic, you would also have to attack everyone that supported the plan.

At the last minute, you tried to redirect from the scum's wagon, to someone else's (Looker), on the sole basis of "lurking".

False. Looker's case is not only lurking. Dont you read? Even worse, why do you defense Looker when he hasnt done nothing to consider him protown?
And yes, I tried to redirect the wagon becuase I felt SK was telling the truth. I explained why I thought that but I was wrong. That doesnt make me scum.

And your rationale for wanting me lynched today, apart from being incredibly pro-town, is???

You are incredibly pro-town? WTF? What have you done to being considered pro-town? NOTHING.

My ratioanle is that you are scum. It doesnt get better than that. You need to die.

[populartajo]

Vote: Pop

Seems OMGUSy.

Empking, please be more useful and read the thread before posting silly things.

I was the one that started the day saying that ort should die. If this is OMGUS its definitely coming from him.

FOS: Empking.

[populartajo]

k so reading the game may take a while though, anyone has a summary about what happened this would help my reread a bit otherwise count on about a week or so.

A week?

[populartajo]

k so reading the game may take a while though, anyone has a summary about what happened this would help my reread a bit otherwise count on about a week or so.

`

Tell us why you're now in the game or die. I am dead serious about this.

I have a theory about this but you are right.
Sirdanilot, you know why you entered this game?

[populartajo]

The contradiction ort is presenting is that first I said that I believed the claim because scum usually have elaborate claims.

Ort thinks that after SK explained more his claim, it became more elaborate (for him). And he thinks I am scum because I kept believing the claim when it became "more elaborate".

But this is what I thought:

When I said scum had elaborate claims I meant that usually scum dont claim a simple role like goomba in a bubble. A reason I thought why this claim could be legit is cuz I tought that the vanilla version of this game were Goombas. For reference, in the other game, scum had fakeclaims like Dr. Mario and at the beginning they didnt know that the Toads were the vanillas of the game.

[populartajo]

A weak attack coming for zwet is understandable but a weak attack coming for a player I respect only means one thing.

I will answer every accusation you brought to the table, ort. Until you eat your words.

Unvote Vote : ortolan.

OMGUS much? I agree that the votes on you are kind of unwarranted, but immediately switching to ortolan after he votes you feels a bit childish.

What about if I think he is scum?

What about if I said that he was scum since D1 and the only reason why I unvoted him is because he showed that he had item descriptions in his items, which we know now that doesnt indicate alignment?

This is not OMGUS.

[populartajo]

Two questions:

1) @populartajo and @ortolan: Do you two have a history of past mafia games together?

We have played some games before. He has been town all the time, IIRC. I think ortolan is a good reasoning player and therefore I dont think he is town scumhunting with that last weak attack against me.

Do you agree with his attacks against me? What about mine?

[populartajo]

Well, that was a bad generalization of my case against ortolan:

Mora and all, what do you think of this?

See, yesterday, while you were voting me for opposing a mass-claim plan as being useless which has since turned out to be...useless, I was busy catching scum.

You were opposing to a plan that was not useless yesterday. It has been proven useless today. How did you know it was useless yesterday? Unless you are scum of course and you knew it was useless since D1.

And why he is attacking me for attacking Looker and he lies when he says that Im attacking him only for lurking?

Also the reason why ortolan wagon lost steam was because he claimed he had item descriptions in his PM, using the plan he is bashing now to save his scummy ass. But now we know this doesnt indicate he is town.

@Mora, why does he think you are obv town and I am obv scum if we shared the same thoughts about the plan? Is it because I am calling for his lynch?

Ortolan just feels off and Im pretty sure he is scum.

[populartajo]

Ort, lest go thorugh this step by step, shall we?

His first post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.

What do you think of this opinion of Looker?

And

Why do you think my plan was useless? I agree it failed to confim townies but it didnt fail to catch scum, ya know?

[populartajo]

Of your case against him, the first two points are practically the same-lurking-which seems to be his norm (anti-town but not necessarily scummy).

Have you checked his participation in other games?

Third point is something to watch him for. I'm not sure why you draw Ort into it, but Looker replacing in and immediately voting scum with poor reason could very well be a bus and/or distancing

Ort is here because Looker decided that one of SK and Ort had to be scum. This is a false dilemma. And its scummy as hell as you realize, specially by the speed of the vote.

Fourth point- I'm in an ongoing game with Looker, and based on his play there and what I read of his play here, I disagree with your assertion that he is not retarded.

Read this and come back with your apreciations of Looker. viewtopic.php?t=11343&postdays=0&postor ... &&start=50

Fifth point- It is fallacious to equate disagreement with a plan that was not clearly and obviously pro-town with having anti-town motivation.

I disagree that my plan was not obviously protown as it was supported by a heavy majority and some people that I think are prob town. Look, we know that some scum didnt have item descriptions in their PMs, as SK flip proves. How its not a safe assumption to think that there has to be at least one more scum in the group of "people refusing to collaborate with the plan" and in the group of "people not having item descriptions"?

You have mentioned that your suspicion of Ort comes from Day 1. I don't recall any serious/memorable case(s) against Ort from Day 1. Please summarize (with links).

Im suspecting Ortolan all D1. You are free to check my posts only by user and see that. Post 288 is a good start.

I do want to know why Tajo did not comment on the discrepancy between SK's claim about his item usability and Ace and Gorrad's claims about item usability. I want to hear what Tajo thinks of the discrepancy.

I did.

ort has done enough to justify his survival now.
SK isn't entirely incriminated by Ace and Gorrad's convictions since the possibitilty of him telling the truth is still there. On the other hand, his defences do have something of a 'retrospective' feel to them. After being called out for slipping, he just goes 'oh, um, I was only assuming that', something he didn't mention before, and continues on...
So, I still think Looker is the best choice, but SK probably isn't a bad one either. Given Looker's out-of-the-blue unvote of SK, there's a chance they could both be scum.

I tend to agree with the post.
Look, I really dont know what to make of SK. My gut tells me he is telling the truth with his claim. When I said scum had elaborate claims I meant that usually scum dont claim a simple role like goomba in a bubble. A reason I thought why this claim could be legit is cuz I tought that the vanilla version of this game were Goombas. For reference, in the other game, scum had fakeclaims like Dr. Mario and at the beginning they didnt know that the Toads were the vanillas of the game. However, if Goombas arent the vanillas of the game, then who are the vanillas of this game?
But yeah, all the people asking for SK lynch cant be all scum and I agree there is something fishy with his claim. So there is not much I can do now.
The only thing I want is that I definitely want Looker to comment on this before SK is lynched.

[populartajo]

Mora, who is scum?

[populartajo]

In your case we have your mass-claiming plan, which is now proven to be a null-tell as we have reports you have advocated it before as scum, as well as the fact it has been proven to be ineffective.

Ive never advocated massclaim plans as scum. Where did you get these reports?

[populartajo]

@Kast, please., I know you really can say what you want to say in two or three lines.

Please dont post enormous wall of texts since usually people will skip them. This is an advice.

@Gorrad, why havent you answered Orto accusations?

[populartajo]

The thing is why would SK scum claim that he didnt have item descriptions when the plan was obv to lynch one of these guys?

[populartajo]

To make you look pro-town today. Can't anyone else see this?

Zwet you are wasting your time here.

I did what I did because Im town not because I am scum trying to look protown.

[populartajo]

Zwets always plays like this.

I dont want to but I agree.

The fact that he is getting paranoid against me when he knows people can get him lynched for weak logic is kinda protown.

In a strange way.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-populartajo (3): zwetschenwasser, ortolan, Empking
-sirdanilot (1): Gorrad
-ortolan (1): populartajo
-zwetschenwasser (1): Moratorium

Not voting (10): killa seven, Kast, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone, caf19, AceMarksman

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

Mora, besides zwet who do you think is scum?

The same question to Kast.

[populartajo]

Mora, besides zwet who do you think is scum?

I'm still generally suspicious of some individuals who appeared to drive the ortolan wagon (p. 30 top).

Hey, look at that, zwetschenwasser's in that list too.

Why are you so vague?

You suspect me?

[populartajo]

Kay, it seems that the majority of people think ortolan and me are just townies going against each other. Look, ort is off, relaly off and Im not sure why some people are missing this. I hope that as the game progresses, people are going to realize this.

Lets go with my other suspect. Looker. Kast and Mora, you think its strange his first vote of the game is for SK when he hadnt read the thread or am I the only one noticing this?

[populartajo]

Morat, please shut up if you have no case. Policy lynching is bad at this stage.

Actually no but concentrating in you when not everyone is posting is not a very good idea. If you keep being not reasonable you will be lynched eventually, though.

[populartajo]

@Tajo-
I already posted my thought on that; but yes, I agree that it could have been an attempt to distance/bus by scum entering the game.

However, I think Looker needs to be prodded and probably replaced because it looks like he isn't active anymore. I don't think we do anything except reinforce preconceptions by pushing cases against someone who is not here. If he becomes active, then I want to hear from him. If he is replaced, I'd like to hear from his replacement.

It feels like only half the players are posting anything.

Mmm, so you think the action Looker did is not a very scummy thing?

[populartajo]

Mora, besides zwet who do you think is scum?

I'm still generally suspicious of some individuals who appeared to drive the ortolan wagon (p. 30 top).

Hey, look at that, zwetschenwasser's in that list too.

Why are you so vague?

You suspect me?

I've already stated I thought you and ortolan were two townies arguing.

I'm being vague because right now I'd rather not detract the conversation from a zwetschenwasser lynch.

I cant blame you.

I havent heard your opinion of looker.

[populartajo]

Law.

These people need prods.

killa seven
ZEEnon
Empking
Looker
sirdanilot

Im really dissapointed with sirdanilot considering he is Law's brother. I hope he would be as interested as his brother.

[populartajo]

What was Wario in MMKI?

He was third party scum. Coin stealer.

[populartajo]

Looking for people to prod I found out that Rice is a lurker.

I could go with a Gorrad lynch right now.

I'm honestly far more interested in what Sirdan has to say though. I hope he can at least post soon.

Rice is also prob scum.

[populartajo]

And last but not least, this thought also went thorugh my mind just now.

1.Can we assume that Wario in DK are scum in this game? Because if we do, Im pretty sure they are on the "I refuse to" or "I dont have item descriptions".

2. Does everyone think that we can at least have one scum in the "I refuse to" or "I dont have item descriptions"? Or do you think that SK was the only one that didnt have item descriptions?

Thoughts?

[populartajo]

Confirm vote: popthetaco

/facepalm.
now why?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-populartajo (3): zwetschenwasser, ortolan, Empking
-sirdanilot (1): Gorrad
-ortolan (1): populartajo
-zwetschenwasser (1): Moratorium

Not voting (10): killa seven, Kast, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone, caf19, AceMarksman

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

okay, just for future reference, Looker just posted in another game Im with him. The one I gave the link.

[populartajo]

You claimed Wario!

facepalm
x2

[populartajo]

I know for a fact he doesn't use such poor (well actually, non-existent) reasoning when town and therefore I still see a strong indication he is scum.

I have provided reasoning why I think you are scum. Try again.

I'm also entirely sure he's familiar with the mafia dictum that saying you have an opinion on someone solely because of "gut" is brazenly scummy because it prevents you having to justify exactly why you find someone scummy, thereby avoiding accountability for your actions.

My case on you is not gut. Fail again.

It only caught scum insofar as it created an atmosphere of general town-fail where SK thought he could slip in and vote me for bad reasons. Unfortunately, it backfired. The actual thing that caught scum was the bandwagon against him started by Moratorium and boosted by me and all the other wagoners.

So you dont think there were scum in the SK wagon? And the basic premise to think SK was scum was that he didnt have item descriptions. Therefore my plan succeded in catching a scum.

Tell me, ort, what makes more sense in the SK wagon when his lynch was inevitable?

a) Bus him to get townie points for being in the wagon?

b) Try to prevent his lynch for get scummy points for not being in the wagon?

[populartajo]

Confirm vote: popthetaco

/facepalm.
now why?

Why the appeal to emotion Tajo?

This is not appeaal to emotion.

Could you share what you think of everyone?

[populartajo]

@Gorrad, why havent you answered Orto accusations?

Which ones, now?

You missed them?

[populartajo]

Ortolan you conveniently missed this:

Ort, lest go thorugh this step by step, shall we?

His first post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.

What do you think of this opinion of Looker?

/quote]

[populartajo]

Fixing tags
Ortolan you conveniently missed this:

Ort, lest go thorugh this step by step, shall we?

His first post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.

What do you think of this opinion of Looker?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-populartajo (3): zwetschenwasser, ortolan, Empking
-sirdanilot (1): Gorrad
-ortolan (1): populartajo
-zwetschenwasser (3): Moratorium, AceMarksman, caf19

Not voting (8): killa seven, Kast, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

I'm Kamek. One of my abilities is to summon vanilla townies from the waiting list, though it costs many coins to do so. That's how I know their flavor. If Sirdan had said he was summoned or brought here by a player then I'd know he was anti-town, as I'm almost positive I'm the only townie with this power.

As it is, what I thought was that maybe either players just wandered in like in the games from offscreen as it were. Sirdan seems to have made up his flavor to fit 'jumping in', when I'm rather positive it's not literal jumping. Therefore, I believe his claim is falsified, and he was brought here by an external, anti-town force.

Confirm Vote: Sirdanilot

Why do you think you are the only townie with this power with the amount of people in the ready to jump list?

And if we analyse "bringing new players" abilities, I really think it fits more a protown ability.

Imagine this scenario. There are 1 scum and 4 townies alive. You lynch a townie and go to night with 1 scum and 3 townies alive. Imagine the power that scum would have if they can bring another scum to the party, nk one townie and win in the next day. So what apparently was an advantage to town (1 scum vs 4 townies) becomes gg in the next day only using this ability once.

Im leaning to believe Gorrad right now. I dont agree with his logic but there is not reason why he would out himself to incriminate Sirdanilot if he were scum.

[populartajo]

I have a better idea.

Unvote Vote : zwet.

Zwet, please claim.

[populartajo]

Im not sure if zwet is scum or town.

I want him either to

a) claim so we decide if its belieavable or not and start talking about better things.

b) start making sense

Zwet, your choice.

[populartajo]

I have a shell that

I think

protects me from nightkills

Please explain.

This.

qft

[populartajo]

FoS: riceballtail

Actual contributions please (like responding to the post directly previous to yours).

and this.
Rice, you train in the same dojo with zwet?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (5): AceMarksman, caf19, Moratorium, Gorrad, populartajo
-populartajo (2): zwetschenwasser, ortolan
-Moratorium (1): Empking

Not voting (10): killa seven, Kast, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

The amount of useless people in this thread is unbelievable.

[populartajo]

Are you going to contribute?

[populartajo]

Kast, did you at least read the game I linked to you?

[populartajo]

Ortolan, you are playing dumb in the Looker case. You know what I am talkign about.

His first

SERIOUS

post of the game was a vote for Shadow Knight showing a bizarre connection with the Ort-SK dilemma, evne though he hadnt finished reading the thread then.

What do you make of this and stop playing the retarded card. Ok, if we assume you are town, does it seem strange that his first

SERIOUS

post of the game is a vote for a flipped scum?

I agree with this and actually kind of brought it up at the beginning of the game (Post 71). Recall that before going with the item claiming plan, tajo wanted a full massclaim (although he later claimed not to). I speculated he was some sort of a "punisher" role (which are included in themed games specifically to avoid mass role/name claiming, by having a wincon to say, eat someone in particular or a certain role type in particular [a la Serum & Steel mini theme]).

So before I was scum defending SK and now Im third party punsiher role.

Ugh, ortolan

REALLY

wants me lynched no matter what. And is still obviously sucking Kast.

Also note: In tajo's 1124 he, for some reason, asked zwet to claim (at L-4). Convention dictates one claims at L-1, not L-4.

Conventions can kiss my ass. Zwet is playing an awful game, making baseless assumptions. If he doesnt start making sense I dont care if he dies since he is not giving any benefits to town.

Why did you first think zwet was town and then you said he was likely town?

[populartajo]

Also, I want eveyrone interested in winning this game to read this game (5 pages only), specially the Looker contributions and compare it with his contributions here.

viewtopic.php?t=11343&start=100

So ort can shut his big mouth and stop posting "lolpop, Looker is retarded, you fail"

Looker is not retarded and is playing the retarded card here. His first post of the game is a weak vote for a flipped scum and he admitted that he hadnt reread the game yet.

Why hasnt he been lynched yet?

[populartajo]

Ok, if we assume you are town, does it seem strange that his first SERIOUS post of the game is a vote for a flipped scum?

What's the purpose of this question? Why would voting for someone who ends up scum be a bad thing?

Thats not the whole idea.

The whole idea is this:

Ok, if we assume you are town, does it seem strange that his first SERIOUS post of the game is a vote for a flipped scum

when he admitted that he hadnt reread the game?

[populartajo]

Role-based reasons. I don't intend to be more specific at this point.

Too late and Im still thinking if you are telling the truth because first you said you thought he was town and then you said he was

likely

town.

This isnt rolebased information and if we are going to keep zwet alive then lets do it for a good reason.

Speak now and dont waste more time.

[populartajo]

Um...no?

Shadow Knight was really obvious scum as well, he chose to vote an obv-town player (myself) with nary a reason.

It doesn't get more scummy than that

Hey wait a minute

Vote: populartajo

How the fuck are you obv town?

[populartajo]

Ok, zwet's claim didn't present us with any huge reasons not to lynch him.

His claim wasn't a huge disaster but is weak and nebulous enough that it could easily have come from scum. The fire-resistance seems to fit flavour-wise, but obviously scum would know their own killing methods. It's something that could have been fabricated without too much trouble.

Then again, the nagging voice in the back of my head tells me that for a zwetclaim, 'not a disaster' is probably the best thing you're going to get...

ort, how certain exactly does your info make you that zwet is town?

This is good posting. You are going to vote caf too, ort?

[populartajo]

Role-based reasons. I don't intend to be more specific at this point.

I can think of a plausible hypothesis whereby what he said is perfectly credible.

Namely if his pm simply said he had immunity to fire.

This is role-based reasons how?

[populartajo]

Gone fishing my ass. There arent PRs in this game.

Now, zwet is town or he is likely town?

[populartajo]

There are obv roles that have individual abilities (Gorrad lying here wouldnt make sense, thats why I believe him) but we dont have normal power roles, aka doctor, cop, tracker, etc, as the OP is clearly indicating.

My problem with zwet, ort and Gorrad is that they are both softclaiming that they apparently have role based information about other players but after they come with shit like ortolan's 1207.

This is not fishing at all. Its asking WHY since the information they have is not rolefishing and scum may very well hiding behind this "I cant tell yuo today or Im not going to elaborate" shit. Its asking them to come clean since at this moment we are in a zwet lynch debate and its responsibility of ort to give us a vital point of view and

explain clearly if he thinks zwet is town or likely town.

Also, if you investigate ort a little more, he recently fakeclaimed cop in Past Ages Mafia, so you can all understand where this bad feeling comes from.

[populartajo]

Unless you subscribe to the belief that retarded players are more likely to be scum, then I don't see how Looker playing like his normal retarded self implicates him as scum. I agree that it would be great if Looker posted as prolifically in this game as in the linked one.

The discussion about Looker was that you said you disagreed with me about him being retarded.
Looker is not retarded as that game proves. Since its an ongoing game, we dont know what this mean yet but it points to he being antitown in this game, therefore making him more probable scum that town.

[populartajo]

Do Buzzy Beetles have hands?

Another good question is that if everyone that has items descriptions in their PMs indeed do have hands.

I do.

[populartajo]

Tajo's Post 1230 - Not necessarily; it's a matter of time, commitment, and having the general drive and determination to actually go back and read the entirety of the thread (50 f cking pages!) Either way, I lack that drive. So yea, I'm mentally handicapped this time around.

If anyone has any questions or anything or any posts they want me to look at so they can incriminate and/or lynch me, just let me know. Meanwhile, can I get a

VOTECOUNT

?

Blerg. Awesome, Looker.
Are you going to contribute or not?
What about if you claim so we decide how useless you really are?

[populartajo]

@Looker-
If you aren't interested in playing, then ask for a replacement.

@Tajo-
Requests like that aren't very pro-town. This adds to my mixed feelings about you.

Why do you think my request is antitown?
I thought you thought he was scum.

[populartajo]

@Tajo-
-Based on the game you linked, yes, Looker is capable of being less retarded than he is being now. HOWEVER, you have not addressed why Looker behaving retarded implies that Looker is scum.

Your linked game is not a valid meta reason for suspecting Looker (it is an ongoing game in which his affiliation is unknown).

Again, unless you are claiming that retarded behavior is a scumtell, then showing that Looker is playing as thought retarded does NOT indicate that he is scum.

To be clear, it also does NOT mean he is not scum. It is a null tell.

Kast, the reason why I think Kast is scum is not precisely "Looker is playing the retarded card here. That means he is scum." Its a part but its not the core.

Why did you vote him?

[populartajo]

Okay, lets make things clear. Im not blurring anything.

You think Looker is scum? Yes or no?

Also, if someone is playing the retarded card when you know that player is not retarded, do you think that means that players is more likely town or more likely scum?

[populartajo]

There are appropriate times to claim and push for a claim, and there are inappropriate times.

Why do people think mafia should be played like an instruction manual?
You realized what happened when I asked zwet to claim even the time was "inappropriate"? It generated a lot of discussion and information. This is good for the town.

So you agree Looker is scummy. I also think that. The only difference is that you want him to claim in an appropiate time and I want him to claim right now.

What is the difference other than I am way ahead from you?

[populartajo]

Kast, why do you have to post wall of posts to make a point?

Listen, we disagree in mafia gamestyle. Im not trying to convince you. Im trying to catch scum.

I think Looker is scum. I have pushed his case since day 1. When half of the town is being useless and doesnt even participate in the game, then what can we do to scumhunt properly?

-Why aren't you telling other players to claim?

Because I dont think they are scum.

-Why did you drop your mass-claim plan?

Name massclaim. I havent. The problem is that nobody else supports it.

-Why didn't you push Zwet to claim from the first moment that anyone suspected him?

Because I didnt think he was scum.

-Why weren't you suspicious of Mora and others who were suspicious of Zwet but did not immediately push for his claim?

Because I dont think Mora is scum. Because he and others arent scum for not sharing my playstyle

You think zwet is town/scum or neutral? Did your opinion of him change when you read his claim?

[populartajo]

Also we think that Looker is prob scum. But we dont get support in this game full of useless lurky people. If he claims now and you believe his claim, then you stop wasting time in him. If you dont believe his claim then you confirm your thoughts and start hunting his soul until he dies.

Bonus fact: you get tons of reactions of people regarding the claim.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (5): AceMarksman, caf19, Moratorium, populartajo, Gorrad
-populartajo (2): zwetschenwasser, ortolan
-Moratorium (1): Empking
-Looker (1): Kast
-Gorrad (1): WeyounsLastClone

Not voting (6): killa seven, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

-I don't like how instead of arguing/explaining your position, you just play the "we have different play styles" card.

But we do.

-Your analysis of benefits from pushing a Looker claim COMPLETELY FAILS to account for the most likely scenario of Looker deciding not to claim.

Why dont we let him decide?

You continue to use the fallacious claim that any action is pro-town if it generates questions and discussion.

When did I say ANY action is protown if it generates questions and discussion?

-You are incorrect in stating that your decision to press for Zwet's claim is based on a change in opinion from not thinking he is scum to thinking he is scum.

I asked Zwet to claim for the same reason Im asking Looker to claim. They are both useless and I want them either dead or confirmed so a)scum can nk them or b)we dont waste time suspecting them.

Also, regarding SK, you did not initially call for his claim, despite suspicion of him.

Do your homework, Kast.

Also, SK you might consider claiming since we dont know how many votes you REALLY have and you could be close to a lynch.

[populartajo]

Kast, the great question you should answer is this:

How do we know that zwet and Looker are town if they continue to be anti-town?

[populartajo]

If Looker presents a believable claim, but maintains his anti-town behavior, will you stop wasting anymore time on him?

Sure that is the whole idea of asking him to claim.

Also you cant compare ort-SK with zwet and Looker. Ort and SK werent useless people.

[populartajo]

Also, the whole point for mentioning SK is because it is an example showing that you do not act in a manner consistent with your claimed belief that it is pro-town to immediately force scummy players to claim.

I dont think so but why are we wasting time debating in a silly argument? I dont intend to convince you. You are not going to convince me.

Who do you think is scum?

[populartajo]

Mod, please prod the following players.

-killa seven
-Riceballtail
-Surye ZEEnon
-ortolan
-sirdanilot

Ok, we are in a very shitty situation. We do have a leading suspect (zwet) but we dont have something concrete to work with.

Some remarkable events.

Zwet : his claim is meh. Not too belieavable but not too scummy. Really dont know what to make of it since you know Im not the specialist in analysing claims. Antitown all the way, makes no sense. Should we lynch him or should he be kept alive?

Looker : antitown all the way. Playing the retarded card. Scummy vote in his first serious post of the game without having reread the thread. I think he should claim.

Ort : softclaims that he knows zwet is town or likely town. I think he should clarify. Rolefishing my ass.

My plan : worked in catching a scum. Didnt work in confirming townies since qwints and some other scum apparently knew what the items did. Still big prob of having third parties in the group of people not having item descriptions. Should we pressure that people?

This is my scumlist

Prob town

Mora
Kast
oldguy
caf19
gorrad
ace
WLC

Neutral but should be lynched if they dont start making sense. In fact, I bet there is at least one scum in this group of people not contributing.

k7
zeenon
emp
zwet
sirdan

Scum

ort
looker
rice

Unvote Vote : Looker.

[populartajo]

Unvote

Vote: Zwet

The whole role PM from the site isn't very good.

I still don't even know what site you're referring to. Isn't it possible that the mod might just have copied it?

Its not very likely.

Empking who is scum?

[populartajo]

Unvote

Vote: Zwet

The whole role PM from the site isn't very good.

I still don't even know what site you're referring to. Isn't it possible that the mod might just have copied it?

Its not very likely.

Empking who is scum?

I think its Zwet, Mora and some more people.

This is a very interesting choice. Why zwet and why Mora?

And who are some people?

[populartajo]

Sirdan, how the hell is my case on Looker a lurkerlynch case?

I don't like ortolan vs tajo. It seems a lot like a misguided towny vs towny thing, even though ironically I do have quite a bit of suspicions of one of them. Weird.

And this makes sense how?

[populartajo]

You need to stop bringing up your plan as how great and wonderful it makes you.

The idea was not to tell the world Im wonderful. The idea was to catch scum using the information we had as town. You think my plan was then a waste of time?

Yes it killed a scum, but you could have easily done it intentionally to bus. Leading a lynch on scum D1 doesn't make you town.

I agree. But does it make me more prob scum or more prob town?

Especially when you backed off right before the actual lynch.

You realize how retarded it would have been for me as scum to prevent a lynch of someone that was heavily suspected and that I knew would come up scum eventually?

Rice, do you at least have an opinion on other people in the game?

[populartajo]

Ort, please dont avoid my posts.

This is not fishing at all. Its asking WHY since the information they have is not rolefishing and scum may very well hiding behind this "I cant tell yuo today or Im not going to elaborate" shit. Its asking them to come clean since at this moment we are in a zwet lynch debate and its responsibility of ort to give us a vital point of view and explain clearly if he thinks zwet is town or likely town.

Also, if you investigate ort a little more, he recently fakeclaimed cop in Past Ages Mafia, so you can all understand where this bad feeling comes from.

[populartajo]

I seriously cannot believe tajo doesn't have more votes on him

He has repeatedly rolefished, explicitly asked for claims before players are at L-1, repeatedly focused on scummy rolefishing methods including asking for a mass-claim day one, and is pretty much just naming as his suspect people who lurk and are easy to lynch bar me. He is blatantly scummy and his usual playstyle is far more analytic whereas all he is doing here is picking on people like Looker with a blatantly transparently disingenuous case and has simply been OMGUSing me all game despite all objective indications of my alignment suggesting town so far.

If Gorrad is indeed town and agrees with tajo's suspicions list that honestly mystifies me.

EPIC FAIL.

Guys, can you tell me why do you think ort is town? Because I AM NOT really seeing it.

[populartajo]

He has repeatedly rolefished

Fail. Im not rolefishing. You aparently softclaimed. The player that is leading the votes is the same player you think is town for reasons that arent clear

explicitly asked for claims before players are at L-1

And this is bad why

repeatedly focused on scummy rolefishing methods including asking for a mass-claim day one

trying to break the game means something to you?

and is pretty much just naming as his suspect people who lurk and are easy to lynch bar me

My case on Looker is not that he is lurking. Fail. Dont you read?

and has simply been OMGUSing me all game

OMGUS means that I dont have a reason to vote you other than you voting me. If you would read my posts instead of posting crap like this maybe you would see why I think you are scum.

all objective indications of my alignment suggesting town so far.

I missed them. Can you point to them?

[populartajo]

You think its OMGUS when Im giving reasons why I think he is scum?

Also, Im noticing how you only appear to go against me.

Do you have an opinion on others?

[populartajo]

Also I think that millar should paraphrase his win condition before he even has a chance to reread the game.

[populartajo]

I think TheAdmiral should paraphrase his win condition before he reads as well.

Agreed.

[populartajo]

Its also funny how ortolan attacks me for going against easy targets (Looker and zwet) when Looker is also suspected by Kast and zwet is having a nice wagon against him.

And I already clarified exactly why I believed zwet's claim, so unless you want another gone fishin' jpeg I think we can steer the conversation away from that topic.

No, show me please. You HAVENT clarified exactly why you believe zwet claim and you have someone (Gorrad) going against your opinion also with apparent information.

[populartajo]

Sirdan, I also dont think caf is scum. His reasoning is very similar to mine.

What are your thougts of ort and Looker?

[populartajo]

Sirdan, I also dont think caf is scum. His reasoning is very similar to mine.

Why is having reasoning similar to your own a reason for not being scum?

Because in some situation we have come to very similar conclusions. I know Im town and I know how I came to those conclusions so that indicates (not 100% obv) that caf is going through the same reasoning process.

[populartajo]

I forgot to ask this:

ortl, you also think Looker is town?

[populartajo]

Because in some situation we have come to very similar conclusions. I know Im town and I know how I came to those conclusions so that indicates (not 100% obv) that caf is going through the same reasoning process.

And this can't be faked?

I agree it can be faked. Thats why the obv not 100% is there.

The question is if it is easy to fake.

I doubt it.

[populartajo]

LYNCH THE SCUMBAG PLEASE.

[populartajo]

due to the request my win con is that I win when there is only mushroom kingdom left.
If you have any other pertinent questions ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Now i've got quite a bit of reading to do!

Protown!

WTF?

[populartajo]

Give us your win condition now.

[populartajo]

Ok, its official.

LYNCH THIS SCUMBAG NOW.

[populartajo]

I got confused and lied I admit it. I looked over my role and assumed I was some sort of scummy role so I didn't put up my real win con.
After having another look that was probably a mistake.

This game is weird, the bad guys are good and vice versa.

This is what you should have posted when we asked to give us your win condition.

Youve failed to give us the real town win condition twice and you are now refusing to give it.

Die scum die.

[populartajo]

FoS: RBT

Even though the vote is good, that was too opportunistic not to be taken into consideration. RBT, you have lurked the entire game yet when tajo and I catch scum, you instantly jump on the wagon. Where are your cases against other players? Where are your suspicions. I think RBT will get my vote tomorrow after we lynch Admiral!scum.

This.

I was just about to post this.

This tells me that RBT DOES read the thread, is aware of the current situations and doesnt post everytime he is here.

Where are your cases against other players? Where are your suspicions.

If you want to avoid suspicions, then share.

[populartajo]

Ortolan keeps defending people he shouldnt defend.

You still are going to attack me for going again Looker?

That is the least impressive way of catching scum, and you didn't catch the first one, we did- you were busy voting the townie who found the scum, until it got all but confirmed that Shadow Knight was, in fact, scum.

Such a negative person.

[populartajo]

I tend to agree and I know ortolan is a douchebag for nature but this is just too much.

I need to reread how much did he defend Looker and use it as a way to generate an attack against me.

[populartajo]

Ort > RBT > Zwet

[populartajo]

??? that doesn't make any sense

people wagoning me and me voting tajo are two different things

my wagon has no reason, or intelligence behind it

I have many reasons for concluding tajo is scum

I think you should read more closely

ENOUGH.

You are softclaiming that you have information that indicates Im scum?

YES OR NO.

[populartajo]

Top Scum: Tajo, Caf, K7 (ignoring ThAd, for obvious reasons)
Top Town: Kast, Ace, Zwet

Funny how K7 is in your scumlist. Why?

Funny how you think Ace is town and Im scum. Why?

Funny guy, RBT.

[populartajo]

ENOUGH.

You are softclaiming that you have information that indicates Im scum?

YES OR NO.

Could you please stop rolefishing? Thank you. It's bad if you're town, and it makes you looks scummy if you're scum.

No.

Some people say this is a town-town battle.

Ortolan is aparently softclaiming that he has additional information that indicates Im scum.

This means he is lying because Im town.

Do I have to remind you that he fakeclaimed cop recently?

[populartajo]

This game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#1670404
God, Empking you were there.

[populartajo]

This game.

viewtopic.php?=1670404#1670404

God, Empking you were there.

[populartajo]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#1670404

[populartajo]

yep something is wrong

that is the right link, btw.

[populartajo]

due to the request my win con is that I win when there is only mushroom kingdom left.
If you have any other pertinent questions ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Now i've got quite a bit of reading to do!

Protown!

Gorrad, what does this mean?

[populartajo]

ENOUGH.

You are softclaiming that you have information that indicates Im scum?

YES OR NO.

Could you please stop rolefishing? Thank you. It's bad if you're town, and it makes you looks scummy if you're scum.

No.

Some people say this is a town-town battle.

Ortolan is aparently softclaiming that he has additional information that indicates Im scum.

This means he is lying because Im town.

Do I have to remind you that he fakeclaimed cop recently?

Mora and EVERYONE, thoughts of this.

[populartajo]

I have nothing personal against you tajo

I simply need you to die

in order to fulfill my (town) win condition

I think you should vote tajo,

he is scum

.

I have many reasons for concluding tajo is scum

I think you should read more closely

Yer I guess it is,

tajo is an obvious lynch

to me

whereas zwet is an obvious mislynch

.

Please discuss.

Also for lullz

I'm very interested to see if you keep going as hard after someone who can defend himself (ThAdmiral) now, tajo.

[populartajo]

@ sirdan:

facepalm.

You asked for posts where ortolan is apparently softclaiming. I gave them to you. Now Ill let everyone analyse those.

I suck at analogies, metaphores and such. Can you tell me the exact reason why you are going to vote me?

[populartajo]

Which is the exact reason why I want him to come clean and dont turn this into a "believe the apparent cop or the apparent guilty" situation.

[populartajo]

I don't really think that ort has role-related info, or is softclaiming to that effect. I just think that he has a tendency to become incredibly sure of himself (it's the same sort of thing as when he said zwet is town). This doesn't really impact on ort's likely role or alignment at all.

Which is the exact reason why I want him to come clean and dont turn this into a "believe the apparent cop or the apparent guilty" situation.

[populartajo]

Im here.

Im going to be terribly busy today.

Will post tonight or tomorrow.

[populartajo]

I have an idea.

Since we have a lot of consensus against Admiral, what about if we do something to know how many votes we really have.

What about if we massively unvote and then revote massively again in a revealing number of iterations, everytime triggering the real votecount when we reach the amount of votes needed to lynch Admiral?

[populartajo]

I have an idea.

Since we have a lot of consensus against Admiral, what about if we do something to know how many votes we really have.

What about if we massively unvote and then revote massively again in a revealing number of iterations, everytime triggering the real votecount when we reach the amount of votes needed to lynch Admiral?

Your idea has already come up in this game.

Where?

[populartajo]

No.

I propose abusing rule 17, the bolded part.

17) The votes of some roles are worth more than other’s votes, so the day might end while it may seem that not enough votes are on one person (or the day doesn’t end while it seems someone has enough votes).

Therefore, there will be a difference between a visible votecount and a real votecount. I will not show the real votecount until either of the votecounts has more than half of all votes on one person.

If we massively unvote and then reorder our votes in a way that we can infer how our votes work, then I think we can have some valuable information.

But me thinks its too late since admiral was at L-3 in the last real votecount, before ortolan, Mora, millar and WLC voted him.

Just in case.

Unvote.

It doesnt matter since we can test it tomorrow with millar.

[populartajo]

fuck you scum

[populartajo]

Mod: Only 1 bah post allowed

[populartajo]

I'm very sorry to hear that Lawrence and sirdan

You have my best wishes

Ort will message Flameaxe

[populartajo]

I blame this loss to the incredible amount of village idiots this town had.

Good job, Kast. I had you pegged as scum since you were very wishy washy regarding my obv towniness and looker obv scumminess. I couldnt make a proper against you though.

Also RBT survived more than he should have. So well played there.

Nice to play with all of you.

Also ortolan fails. A lot. /justkidding, this wasnt prob your best, pal.

Thx Law for an interesting setup. Day 1 was lots of fun trying to break the game. Thx Kmd and Zazie for reviving this game.