California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[Gaspar]

Locke, I demand that you give me your list of five, in order, without any hesitation.

[Gaspar]

D'oh, I must have missed it. Which post?

[Gaspar]

nvm, found it.

[Gaspar]

I still want Mr. Obody removed from our presence. It would bring me no displeasure to never see his face again.

The plan for the Advocates is obviously to make the least trustworthy-looking players be forced to give the information. It injects the most potential doubt into each Decision we make. It's probably the best play the scums could make, especially considering that the two most reviled people in the game, Mr. Obody, and Mr. Locke, were seemingly forced On Camera.

Mr. Locke, were you given any indication that the deaths of two or more choices would force you on screen?

[Gaspar]

Wait, what? "The angel"? I have neither recieved nor provided any information. Why exactly am I lumped in with you two?

Quote removed. Read the rules. - Mod

[Gaspar]

Also, please answer my previous question about whether you knew that choosing 5 and losing 2 would force you out here with us.

[Gaspar]

Oh. Right. I was prevously unfamiliar with this "Clarence Obody" fellow, and assumed you were referring to me.


I asked if you had such knowledge, because that appears to be the case. I don't think anybody expected to find two bodies here, but I wondered if maybe you had asked, being the force which brings us people together.

I have looked to the heavens for guidance. I'm hoping I will recieve an answer which will guide us going forward. I suggest you... *ahem*...

pray

... in a similar fashion.

Quote removed. Read the rules. - Mod

[Gaspar]

I will venture that Mr. Obody's information is almost certainly accurate. I'm guessing that, unless he's at least 90% certain that he'll be lynched today, he wouldn't suicide himself to get us to make one bad decision.

The tinfoil hat in my hand wants me to type about the paranoia that Mother is Neutral, and that Mr. Obody and Mr. Locke know this, but I'm undecided. If I had to vote now, it would absolutely be for the Mother.

I like the nature of Mr. Locke's information, because that's actually EXACTLY what I was thinking the hints might sound like. Truth be told, I expected to be made an Advocate, and I think that if Mr. Obody hadn't made himself an obvious lynch candidate, I absolutely

would

have been an Advocate, simply because I've been high-profile, and enough people suspect me just enough to inject some doubt into the situation. I literally thought to myself, "Man, I bet it's like one of those puzzles where they give you five named people, with five different colored houses, a few clues, and you have to combine them to eliminate enough choices to figure out which person has which colored house."

Pre-Post Edit. Wow, I feel like I explained that very poorly. Does anybody have a laptop around here? If so, Google "Logic Problems - Starting School" to see what I'm talking about.

[Gaspar]

Talida, I think it is reasonable that Mr. Obody would act out of self-preservation just to discount my earlier point. If Mr. Obody dies as an evil man, and his information turns out to be ACCURATE, I expect to be barraged by questions of "well why didn't he just lie to us if he was going to die?"

If he dies and his information is INACCURATE, then my point of "suicidal scums will try to mislead the town" is automatically proven, and I look far more innocent. I don't think the scums will give me that kind of ammunition, unless they plan on killing me that very night.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: Apparently our mysterious Man in the Grey heavens above is unwilling and/or unable to answer my most recent plea for help. That is most frustrating.

[Gaspar]

Also, I meant to say "Tabris," not "Talida." My brain is not here right now. I should come back later, when it is.

[Gaspar]

...like I said, I'm reasonably sure that the information we have receieved is accurate, regardless of the intent of our Advocates.

[Gaspar]

During the Between-Scenes, you seemed resigned to the fact that you were going to be lynched. I wish I could quote you from then, but you were like "well, it looks like a whole bunch of people want me to die." Don't go acting now as if I'm the only one now. Of course, Mr. Ito and Glork *did* conveniently die overnight.....


Tabris, I already stated that if I had to pick now, I'd pick the Mother. Please pay more attention next time. Also, Uncle B and I don't really talk anymore. Last Christmas, he sent me a serpent. It nearly swallowed me whole. I'm still quite upset about it. Why can't he get along with the rest of the family?

I'm not really sure what you mean by "settle for four defeats in a row." You're doing your crazy backwards logic that manages to piss someone off without failure. I'm looking at a double-victory from yesterday, and I aim for a double-victory today.


DEATH, I've already gone over why I think we should trust Mr. Obody and Mr. Locke today.
If either one of them dies as scum and their information is INACCURATE, I have won. I have successfully shown that scums who are to die will do whatever they can to mislead the town before they die.
If they both die as scum and their information is ACCURATE, the remaining living scums can shove "Gaspar said they'd mislead the town, but obviously Yos/Elmo didn't" down my throat for the rest of the game.

I don't think the scums want to prove the point I've been making for basically the entire game by giving inaccurate information here. If Obody/Locke are town, they are telling the truth. If they are scums, they may or may not be telling the truth, but lying basically confirms what I've been trying to say ALL FUCKING GAME, which I'm guessing they don't want to do.

I'm not really sure how I can put that any other way. Either you understand it or you don't. But please quit harassing me with unnecessary dumb questions that I've already answered.

Quote removed. Read the rules. - Mod

[Gaspar]

Tabris, a quick question: What happened to your recent certainty that Mr. Obody and I are not of the same good/evil nature? You expressed this with great certainty just a short while ago, and now you seem to think that Obody and I are in cahoots together. Is it simply because I think the Mother should be chosen?

[Gaspar]

I would guess that Ms. Garrett was made our Stuntperson. If that's the case, I'm going to have to plant my head through a computer monitor.

Just got home, but I'm p busy until probably Saturday afternoon. I'll catch up on things then.

[Gaspar]

Blargh. Now Tabris is making basically the same arguments I made up until this point. My brain wants to agree with her, but my innards are saying that Mr. Obody wouldn't lie because that would prove everything I've said against him and Mr. Locke to be correct.

I really don't know where I stand on this.


By the way, Tabris, how will tomorrow be a "cakewalk" as you so eloquently put it? (I ask this because I didn't jot down any information we may have been given.)

[Gaspar]

I've always been extremely self-centered, Tabris. Remember Covert Ops by the mysterious "Seol"?


Every game revolves around me. I

am

the center of the Universe. Really, if you think about it, this isn't out of the ordinary for me at all.

[Gaspar]

I don't know about you, Locke, but I'm waiting on a green light before voting.

Also, the appointing of this "Elmosaurian" as stuntman is more a sign that he will be lynched, rather than an endorsement of his innocence. The AP did the same thing with "KY Krew" yesterday, and I ran through the most likely reasons for it in detail.

[Gaspar]

Like I said, I went over this yesterday. I think you were On Camera, though, so you probably skipped over it. (And yes, I'm posting totally out of character right now. Sue me.)

Two main reasons:
1) By making the lynchee the Stuntman, the AP doesn't have to decide on a "Scene Four" Stuntman until the lynchee's alignment is known. It probably wasn't

as

big a deal when he did it to KY Krew after Talilan stunted him off, but if the AP has any significant doubt of Elmosaurian's alignment, he can wait to name a Stuntman until after he's got that information.

2) The AP gets to hide his identity as much as possible. As people cannot hold multiple jobs at once, the more people who are made Stuntman, the easier it is for the scums to figure out who the AP is. Since the AP is confirmed innocent and must choose a (presumably alignment-ambiguous) replacement, the AP's identity should be as hidden as possible. It's not a big deal to make Elmosaurian a Stuntman because he cannot Stunt again today. (Job description says Stunting can only happen once per Scene, and Pooky has already used Scene Three's stunt.) And this takes away Elmosaurian possibly claiming to be the AP to force a counterclaim.



----------------


Also, we

don't have the okay to vote anything, because we haven't seen a green light.

Why do you keep wanting to push the vote, Mr. Locke? We have a system that works BEAUTIFULLY. They make the lynch, give us a GREEN LIGHT IMAGE, and

THEN

we make our decision. If we vote/Decide early, we might accidentally force a mislynch, which is NOT what any protown player should want. Shut up and mill about. I don't care if you post

"HAY GUIZE, ITS ME, LOCKE! HAY GUIZE, ITS ME, LOCKE! HAY GUIZE, ITS ME, LOCKE! HAY GUIZE, ITS ME, LOCKE!"

every day just to get your 25 word post, but I swear, if you vote before we get our Green Light, I'm going make sure that you get lynched tomorrow under any circumstances.

[Gaspar]

Mr. Godwin, are you

sure

you're not evil?

[Gaspar]

I'm confused. Why is Crone the correct choice?

Also, I'm going to be on a business trip all next week. I'm working on getting a temporary Hydra Head so that I do not have to be outright replaced. :/

[Gaspar]

No no no, I remember the random words that got blown away by the Grey Winds. All it said about Crone was that they had "shown" it to be the correct choice, and that Crone is what they would have voted. There wasn't any detailed explanation as to how they got there. We have ZERO knowledge of what these "mystery memories" assumed could be believed or disbelieved.

Now a bunch of people are assuming that the mystery conclusion is correct. I want to know why.

I thought that our conclusion (Crone is 50% bad, 50% good; Mother is 50% good, 50% neutral) was correct, if we believe the Advocates' information.

[Gaspar]

The words were removed because they were never supposed to be posted here to begin with.

I am going to reiterate the logic based on the hints, and explain why "Crone is the correct choice" is a conclusion that you CANNOT assume is reasonable, unless you are taking on A SINGLE opinion.

Let us label the choices alphabetically:
A = Crone
B = Maiden
C = Mother

To Paraphrase Mr. Locke's hint: "The Liar is not DIRECTLY BEFORE the Truth-Teller alphabetically." This means that one of the following cases must be true:

Scenario 1
A = Crone = BAD
B = Maiden = NEUTRAL
C = Mother = GOOD

Scenario 2
A = Crone = NEUTRAL
B = Maiden = GOOD
C = Mother = BAD

Scenario 3
A = Crone = GOOD
B = Maiden = BAD
C = Mother = NEUTRAL

Scenario 4
A = Crone = GOOD
B = Maiden = Neutral
C = Mother = BAD



Now, let me paraphrase Mr. Obody's hint: "The Mother is not Bad."

If you take this to be true, then it means that Scenario 4 is wrong, and Scenario 2 is wrong.

Thus:
Crone is either BAD or GOOD.
Maiden is either NEUTRAL or BAD.
Mother is either GOOD or NEUTRAL.


----------------------------


Now, that was the case if you believed BOTH advocates. If you choose to believe Locke, but not Obody, then any of the four Scenarios is fine. This means that:
Crone is either BAD or NEUTRAL or GOOD or GOOD
Maiden is either NEUTRAL or GOOD or BAD or NEUTRAL
Mother is either GOOD or BAD or NEUTRAL or BAD.

Thus, Crone has a 50% chance of being correct, and each of the other two has a 25% chance of being correct. Mother is the worst choice, with a 50% bad rate.

This is the opinion which our "Mystery Messenger" holds. They believe that CKD/Locke is good, while Elmo/Obody is evil. They ALSO believe that because Elmosaurian is evil, he necessarily LIED to us.

--------

If you believe that Locke lied to us, then the Scenarios and guesswork are useless. The best you can do is take Crone/Maiden 50/50

IF YOU BELIEVE ELMOSAURIAN

The only way in which Crone can be "concluded" to be the correct choice is if:
A) You believe CKD is good, AND Elmosaurian is bad
AND
B) You believe that Elmosaurian deliberately lied to us



Now, DEATH, you are taking this "conclusion" to heart. Do you believe that Locke told us the truth, and that the original Obody lied to us?

Tabris, you have stated that you believe both of our Advocates to be in cahoots, right? If this is the case, how on earth do you conclude ANYTHING based on what they've told us?


I'm a bit pissed, because I see you both following a post made by an outsider, when not only is THEIR alignment unknown, but also when you don't even necessarily agree with ASSUMPTIONS which led to their conclusion. Do you honestly believe that just because the post came from outside that it's divine and necessarily correct? That's stupid. It's just terrible Mafia.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: Er, not DEATH. I meant to say Count. I got my characters mixed up.

[Gaspar]

I believe that Elmosaurian is evil. (I've given up on roleplaying, because I hate it. It confuses me too much. Sorry, Mr. Grey, but I'm going to be calling everybody by their forum names from now on.) If I were Off Stage, I would be voting for him, with no question about it.

I also believe that CKD is more likely to be evil than Innocent.



HOWEVER, I have stated that I want to believe that both of their information is trustworthy, because I don't see them giving into my earlier argument that "likely doomed scum will deliberately mislead us in any way possible."

Yes, I know that it's backwards/WIFOM logic. My conclusion is based completely on my own gut beliefs. I don't care what kind of flak it gives me. I haven't decided if I want to vote for Mother yet, but it's where I'm leaning currently.

[Gaspar]

Bleh. I'm just going to explain what's going through my head right now, because I feel like people are going to ask me about it.



Like I said, I'm pretty certain that Elmosaurian is scum. I'm about 75% that he'll flip "Scientologist," 15-20% that he'll flip "Innocent," and 5-10% that he'll flip "Screen Mafia Guild."

If he flips Scientologist, I will be 95% certain that CKD is also a Scientologist.
If Elmosaurian flips Innocent, I'll be about 70% certain that CKD is still scum.
If Elmosaurian flips Screen Mafia Guild, I'll be only about 20-25% certain that CKD is scum -- definitely not even close enough to want to lynch him.

My other top candidates for scum are, in no particular order:
Thesp
Thok
ShadowLurker
Talilan




Thesp and Thok seem to be largely ignoring the game. They're about the same level, I guess, but there are some differences.

Thok is going "I know I haven't contributed, but I'm here and still not contributing."
Thesp is going "I know I haven't contributed, but I'm here and this is what I think on a couple of current events."

Thok's play is much more agitating, but I don't know if it's more or less likely to make him scum than Thesp.



ShadowLurker, I feel, is posting just enough to not get on anybody's "Lurker/Inactive" list, but I don't feel that he's strongly committed to attacking anybody. This is a HUGE concern for me, and actually has him WAAAYYYY up on my list right now. He's getting by without anybody noticing him, but just barely. I feel like he freely weighs in on stuff like "If we believe the Advocate information, do these scenarios look correct?" but I feel like he's trying to set himself up to be responsible for nothing that could go wrong. Stuff like the coinflip, acting based on assuming correct information. And his Off-Stage gameplay hasn't struck me as being noteworthy either.

He is under the radar just enough so that nobody can pin any egregious mistakes enough, but he's just barely active enough that nobody is going after him for lurkiness or failure to get involved in the lynchings/decisions. It's this really grey middle ground that worries me a whole ton.


Talilan should be pretty obvious by now. I'm about 50/50 on whether Ortolan is a complete idiot Innocent, or whether Ortolan is moderately idiotic scum.

The biggest thing, like I stated way earlier, is Ortolan's "everyone who attacks or disagrees with me is scum" theory. That philosophy is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE for any protown player, but it's great for anybody who wants to stay alive and keep their detractors back on their own heels. That attitude is the biggest thing that screams "ORTOLAN IS SCUM" to me, but I can't commit myself to that opinion just yet, because I have better leads at the moment.


And Mr. Grey, I'll talk more about abandoning flavor after the game. The concept was fine, and normally I love flavor, but too many names and terms got incredibly confusing. Bottom line, I think it's dumb to make people refer to Elmosaurian as "the little devil that previously sat on Mr. Obody's shoulders." It makes the game unnecessarily complicated.

[Gaspar]

That's fine, Baltar, and it's exactly why I haven't decided on Mother just yet. I don't know which way I want to vote. I really don't.

Like I said, I think it is very possible that Elmosaurian doesn't want to prove me completely right as he dies. It's kind of the ultimate victory for me, even if I do get lynched.

However, I

did

argue that doomed scums would lie as much as possible. And as I already pointed out, Elmosaurian

did

basically resign himself to lynch during Pre-Scene Three.

[Gaspar]

CKD kind of beat me to it, but StarKiss's vote annoys me.

HOWEVER, Dram (who made the post/vote) probably didn't know that we are waiting for the Director of Photography (is that still Thesp?) to post a picture of a GREEN LIGHT to tell us that they are ready for us to make our Decision. Until then, nobody should be bolding any votes.

I'm willing to give Dram a waiver, since he just replaced in.

And yeah, CKD, I already noted that ShadowLurker has put down a condorcet-without-vote. However, this seems less egregious than actually saying "can we vote yet?" You actually appealed to us to vote when you should KNOW that we don't have the go-ahead to vote.


Qusetion for DGB and Baltar: What's the point of "Testing if Elmo is lying" if Elmo is going to be lynched anyway? The only reason I would test if he's lying is if I'm considering lynching him on a FUTURE day. However, the Stunting has pretty much assured us that he will be lynched today. It seems stupid to test if he's lying scum. At the end of the scene, we'll know if he was lying scum anyway.He'll be lynched, and we'll have made a decision no matter what.

I don't buy "Let's vote Crone to test if he's lying" as a reason at all. All we care about is whether he's scum, and we will know that soon because he is being lynched as we speak.

[Gaspar]

The thing is, there shouldn't be any need to "test Elmo"

AT ALL

, because he's going to be dead anyway. Vote based on what you think is most likely to be Good and/or least likely to be Bad.

"Testing Elmo" shouldn't be in anybody's thought process, because he is effectively a corpse.

[Gaspar]

By the way, elvis_knits will be hydra-ing with me on this account, as of this evening. (Like I said, I'll be away on a business trip all next week, so this way I won't get replaced.) I'm going to try to get into the habit of signing my posts, though I think you'll probably be able to tell who is who based on posting style.

-Glork

[Gaspar]

Oh. Well then I misunderstood you two completely. I agree 100% with both of you.

[Gaspar]

This is stupid. Mother was so obviously the right choice, but I think we already hit lynch.

Definite mega-FoS to CKD for laying down the hammer before anybody could rethink their positions.

[Gaspar]

No, there was already one voting (StarKiss). Then Baltar, Hewitt, Pooky, and you voted. The decision has been made.

I'm not going to get into the "Why do I think the Advocates were telling the truth, even if they're scum" argument for a fourth or fifth time.

The main reason I objected just a minute ago is because this vote was incredibly rushed. It looks like someone couldn't wait to get the decision made, and considering that hammer is someone I already suspect (YOU, CKD), I'm now pretty certain that you were sealing the envelope on the wrong Decision.

[Gaspar]

So tell me, CKD. Do you think that Elmosaurian's advocate information was true or not?

[Gaspar]

I'm so pleased to have Huey Lewis, Carrie Fisher, and Mr. Green all here.

Angel sharpens his vampire stake that he got from some girl named Buffy.

Are we in an episode of "Deal or no Deal?"

If so, I say go for the million. Don't push the button.

[Gaspar]

The music of Salt-n-Pepa singing "Push it" plays in the background on continuous loop. Angel covers his ears, trying to drown out the refrain by humming the theme song to "Jeopardy."

Huey, you seem to imply it doesn't matter which we choose, as they will both be WIFOM, and then you change your mind on which option you want to pick. Why change your mind if they're both WIFOM anyway?

[Gaspar]

I like what Godwin has to say and appreciate Mr. Green taking the effort to compile a list of the positions we are each taking.

Angel practices downward-facing-dog on his pretty purple yoga mat.

I think we should do the opposite of people's first reactions. Thus negating anything scum came in trying to push.

[Gaspar]

Tabris, you sexy beast, do you think Godwin's scummiest?

I thought he could be because of his reaction to the Kentuckians and how he was one of the ones wanting to stunt them onstage. But then again he is making sense currently.

Perhaps the way to go about this is to decide who we think is scummiest and do the opposite of what they want. Sort of like a hypothetical lynch to determine our decision?

[Gaspar]

Does it matter who goes next?

[Gaspar]

Godwin is very protective of his transformers, I take it.

I am willing to play the Tabris game and see who everyone wants to move on the list. It can be helpful to see what they think of people. It is a tool, nothing more.

I don't think we should be married to the list or anything or "blindly" follow anything it yeilds, as Godwin seems to fear.

Or if you guys don't like the Tabris game we can always do a round robin of tic-tac-toe.

Here is the board:
_____
l_l_l_l
l_l_l_l
l_l_l_l

(Choice of "x" or "o" will indicate scumminess. Just warning you).

[Gaspar]

I don't think it's pointless. This game has already shown me that Odbody is scum and reaffirmed Dweezil is town.

Carrie Fisher, played by Talilan
Huey Lewis, played by StarKiss
Clarence Odbody, played by PookyTheMagicalBear
Valentine Wiggin, played by Panzerjager
Glen Stewart Godwin, played by Thok
Mr. Green, played by sottyrulez
Angel, played by Gaspar
Dweezil Zappa, played by Mighty Orbots
Tabris, played by GoofballsAndBaloons

[Gaspar]

I'm not sure I like the group I'm in.

[Gaspar]

Glork's back, haven't read a damned thing, probably won't until Sunday-ish.

Do we know who if anyone died overnight? If not, could the people Off-Stage please tell us by posting an image of the appropriate person's avatar with a knife stuck in it?

[Gaspar]

Okay, so I (Glork) read Scene Four, and you people have been largely dead and boring.

Thok makes an interesting point about the decision not being random. While it's not a perfect analogy, there is something to be said about "The Scums want us to make a bad choice, and we want to find out which choice is correct."

I'd like to know what I missed at the tail end of Pre-Scene-Four. A Cliff Notes version would be fine for now, until I can get a hold of my other hydra head.

Not sure whether I'd push the button or not. I probably would, just for shits and giggles. I am not a fan of DGB's strategy. I think it allows the scums to manipulate the list easily but subtlely, and I don't think we can get enough out of its analysis to be particularly useful, even if we are led astray.

[Gaspar]

Sure, DGB.

We random-vote in the first few pages of this little "minigame". People observe voting trends and each others' behavior, and adjust their opinions based on who they suspect is leading us astray. Eventually, a majority of the "town" decides that they firmly want to take one action or another, and we "lynch" Push or No-Push.

I'd like this to be a mafia game. Forcing people to make decisions based on an arbitrary list order is not the way to do it. Let the game play out naturally, and seek to make good decisions (both in-Scene and in scumhunting) naturally.

[Gaspar]

Not until the Green Light. But I've already said I'd random-vote Push The Button if I had to.

[Gaspar]

Idea: We vote-without-voting by using Italics, instead of the official Bold.

Pseudovote: Push The Button

[Gaspar]

It isn't more informative. But as far as I can tell, we cannot decide to kill someone who is scummy today. When I spoke of voting/lynching a few posts ago, I was talking within the context of Scene Four, which is what we currently have control over.

I fail to see how "voting" for people we think are scummy will help us arrive at a decision. All it does is let the scums play WIFOM games with the Decision, if we happen to point our fingers at them.

[Gaspar]

I'm pretty sure you already know who I find scummy, DGB. Nothing magically changed while I was out of town, because nobody has told me a goddamned thing about what I missed while I was gone.

[Gaspar]

This is Angel's feminine side speaking.

I think Mr. Green makes a good point. We have to start holding people responsible. I think that it's much more likely that scum were pushing the bad decision than the town just simply picked wrong and the scum sat back and laughed (as Tarbis suggests).

[Gaspar]

While I (Glork) think G&B is innocent, I agree that we need to hold people accountable for making bad decsions.

It is absolutely ridiculous that I guessed right and, after the day, Talilan and G&B were all "GLORK KNEW, HE MUST BE SCUM!" The reasoning behind my guess was inaccurate,* but I guessed right. Meanwhile, five people VERY QUICKLY VOTED for the

bad choice

, and yet hardly anybody seems to care.


Why is this? G&B, which scumbags (if any) do you think voted for the Crone?




*I would argue that this actually makes me less likely to be scum than if I had said "oh I think Elmosaurian is town and is telling the truth"... but that's a different point altogether -- hence the footnote.

[Gaspar]

Pooky, I've already said that I'm done roleplaying. As a protown player, I want to simplify the game as much as possible, so I'm not roleplaying as Angel or using character names anymore. I explained this already.

[Gaspar]

This is FemAngel.

Dweezil, I haven't read through all this thread so I'm mostly going by read from the off-stage thread (which actually was unfinished since thread is hidden). But When Mr. Green said to look at the crone voters, I went and looked. It was:

Clarence Odbody, Count de Morcerf, DEATH, Huey Lewis, Tabris

I think Count is scummiest (if that's hewitt, which I think it is). I also think Huey is pretty scummy. And Clarence I have a message for: IMA BITE YOUUUUU!

So I think Count and Huey are worst on that wagon, with some doubts on Clarence. But I'm less sure of that just since Clarence doesn't give much to go on.

I will go back and read some of this thread to look at how the votes went down to pinpoint what I think more exactly, but those are my feelings just from my general read of players.

Also, I am not liking Tabris' last post. She picks out ONE person from the crone wagon, and then puts the rest of the blame on people who didn't vote for the bad option. I really think that's wrong. Scum want the bad option. Scum are going to try to push the bad option. Scum are going to vote the bad option. It just makes sense. Now, I'm not saying that I think all the scum were on the wagon, or that some townies didn't just pick wrong, but I really think

most

of the blame should be on the wagon.

[Gaspar]

Tabris, I know many times you figure one scum on the lynch, one off, and sometimes I think you figure one not voting. Is that right?

So in this case there was really only the crone wagon and the not-voting people (with john locke only other person voting something). Is that why you're looking at one scum on the crone wagon and one in the non voters?

In that case you are contemplating one person (count hewitt) for the scum-on-lynch position and you are contemplating three people for the scum-off-lynch hposition.

I agree with hewitt being the front runner, and I agree there was probably scum off as well as on the wagon. The only thing I don't like is that it seems like you are paying a dispropotionate amount of attention to the off-wagon people. It gives the impression that the off-wagoners are scummier, a position that you have expressed before (when you said that the scum were probably sitting back and laughing at the towns voting the bad option). I think the premise that scum were not pushing the bad option is false.

I guess we can agree on hewitt though.

Love,
Angelic Elvis

[Gaspar]

Everyone wish Glork a happy birthday!

(<3 elvis)

[Gaspar]

StarKiss: I haven't paid too much attention to you, because you've felt reasonably protown to me for much of the game. I'd have to put some thought into which of your "personalites" (I assume you mean hydra head?) "bothers" me the most. I try not to think about how protown people bother me, unless somebody is

REALLY

bothering me. I typically prefer to just focus on people whom I think are scums.


And thanks, Elvis. <333


-Glork

[Gaspar]

Seriously, learn to read.

Thok does not want to push the button:
Glork does want to push the button:


Also, when did you guys revert to using first names again? I thought everyone used Mr./Ms. LASTNAME yesterday.

No links, please. Technically, not using a tag, but the tag is added by the forum. See the rules for allowed tags. - Mod

[Gaspar]

Glork is moving this weekend, and will have pretty limited access.


I'm willing to bet that they want to ask us who we think should be Stunted offstage (for potential lynch?). If my guess is correct, please have the Audiographer play Final Fantasy Fanfare for us.

Also, WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I DON'T WANT TO PUSH THE BUTTON? GLORK WANTS TO PUSH THE EFFING BUTTON! I LIKE BLOWING SHIT UP! IT MAKES ME HAPPY IN THE COCKELS OF MY WARM, GLOWING HEART.


I for one would like to see SL lynched. I know I haven't presented much of a case for him, aside from gut, but I just feel that he's scum. I'm sorry that I can't explain more. I'm still somewhat uneasy about Thok/Thesp, and I still can't get over Ortolan's gameplay (but I'm still entertaining the idea that he is a stubborn idiot).

[Gaspar]

Twocents: I really like Sotty's current line of inquiry.

[Gaspar]

Sottyrulez, EK's initial reaction was to not push. I (Glork) decided when I got back from my week away, that I want to push, and EK has acquiesced. There is no "setting up to go both ways." Glork takes full responsibility for Push regardless of outcome.

[Gaspar]

Also,

Vote:

Push, Don't Push, No Vote

[Gaspar]

I am in agreement with Glork. This is more his hydra than mine. He's been here the whole time and so he's in charge. I haven't even read everything yet, so I'm definitely not as qualified as him.

I originally said don't push because sotty said push and I had made a post about them on the off-stage thread right before start of scene, and I was thinking about that. Overall though I think it's not a big deal, and sotty has seemed pro-town today. It's a little scummy that sotty keeps saying that gaspar doesn't want to push the button even when glork is yelling at the top of his lungs that YES WE WANT TO PUSH THE BUTTON. But hey, maybe it's just a misunderstanding.

Also you will notice that after sotty originally compiled people's first reactions to the button, I did not like who I was grouped with. So I was starting to lean Glork's way anyway.

Overall, just reaffirming that I agree with Glork.

[Gaspar]

This is elvis again.

Sotty the thing I was asking about off-stage was your read of Mr.JellyLee. On my read I thought he seemed very pro-town, so I thought it was weird you had him leaning scum (or some quasi-scummy designation). I thought he had a lot of good ideas about theory and how to make the choices, so I was thinking a scum would want to discredit his intelligent remarks (by saying he's scummy). I'm not sure this point is very important at this time, and as I said, I find you very helpful and pro-town today. But if you want to know what my off-stage post was about, that is what it was about. I also remember not really liking zach's reply to my post, but I can't even remember what he said to me at the time.

[Gaspar]

Elvis yet again...

So I went to see "Stepfather" today which made me never want to leave the house nevermind go on a date ever again. But there was a trailer for "The Box." The premise of the movie is that this weirdo shows up at your door and he opens the box and shows you a button inside. He tells you if you push it that someone in the world that you don't know will die but you will get a million dollars.

Oh I just looked on wikipedia (and I suggest others do the same). Based on a short story and also on a twilight zone episode called "button, button." In the twilight zone episode, the wife decides to push the button (even though the husband doesn't want to). They get the money, and they return the button to the stranger and ask what will happen to the button. The stranger tells them it will be reprogrammed and offered to "someone you don't know." Sort of like if you push the button then you will be eligible to die if the next person pushes the button?

Can this story be the origin of Mr. Grey's little game today?? And should that have anything to do with our decision?

Honestly, I'm not sure, but I found the similarities eerily similar to our decision today and thought I would bring it up in case anyone has any ideas.

[Gaspar]

So your point is that scum could assign the outcome and looking at the origins of the game won't help us.

Thanks. I appreciate your obnoxiousness too.

[Gaspar]

Glork here.

Well EK, I actually have to agree with Talilan on this one. (And before any of you smartasses start up with me, I'm talking about the "scum assigning outcomes" bit -- not the "read your [scum] quicktopic" bit.) While I think that every Decision has some root in a real-life dilemma or puzzle, it's stated in the rules that the scums choose what each decision is. So thinking about the dilemma itself doesn't actually help us, because it very likely had zero impact on how the scums chose to assign Good/Bad outcomes to this Decision.


Is it sad that I almost

want

Talilan to be protown so that I can point to a very valid excuse to never play Mafia with Ortolan again?

Honestly, does

ANYBODY

find his constant throwaway posts even an eensy, weensy bit constructive? DGB, could you please tell him to cut it out already (as he seems to think you are largely infallible)?

[Gaspar]

Elaborate, Thok. Whose reactions helped solidify your choice, and why?

[Gaspar]

Talilan, I did find your post obnoxious because "go back to your QT scum" is a stock obnoxious comment that doesn't even have scum hunting value, IMO. I'm sorry I forgot that scum assign the outcomes of the decision in this game. This game is sort of complicated and this is the first decision I've participated in. And I haven't discussed anything with Glork besides one time before I started posting.

I was trying to help, thinking (stupidly) that I had thought of something. You could have reminded me that scum assign the outcome in a different way. The way you did it makes me think that you were trying to silence me.

Also, in case any of you don't know, my actual name is Carrie. So when you people refer to Talilan as Carrie, it really screws with me. And have people started referring to me by my actual name? If so, God help us all. That will get seriously confusing.

~elvis

[Gaspar]

How about calling "Carrie Fisher"

Talilan

?

*rolls eyes*

EK, I'm making a QuickTopic right now so we can talk about some things. I'll PM the link to your EK account once it's up.

[Gaspar]

Which StarKiss persona is this? I can't tell from your posting styles, so please sign your posts.

(By the way, the last post and this post are both by Glork.)

[Gaspar]

So Kise, you're the "veteran" of the hydra, so to speak, yet you're deferring to Dram. Why is that?

If you -- that is, YOU, KISE, not Dram -- were forced to vote one way or another, which way would you vote, and why?

[Gaspar]

Mise well make it official.

Vote: Push the Button