Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[Starbuck]

Hey guys, just checking in. I'll be catching up shortly.

[Starbuck]

I'm trying to do my read through and I'm really confused. There seems to be a lot of missing posts.

[Starbuck]

Can someone tell me about the missing posts that I'm finding at the beginning? Something about the mod deleting them?

[Starbuck]

Unvote

, in case I'm currently voting anyone.

The first part of my analysis is almost done.

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 1

I would like to add that while Empire of the Sun may be a band. The name "Empire of the Sun" is more famously known from the amazing movie made by Steven Spielberg in the 1980s.

Ok, serious WTF on the bandwagon right out the gate. You guys had BC at L-3 before the bottom of the first page.

On my predecessor, Nook

Finally shows up at Post 69. He responds to Snow White's reasoning for voting Saber, and I think it's very well thought out. Random votes Sanjay, and mentions that the possible roles are interesting.

He does stay a bit too quiet for my liking.

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

On almightybob

I feel sheepish. Apologies to Cookie for the PM-reading accusation. My bad.

What are you talking about here? I don't see anything about PM reading in any of the posts prior to this.

On Snow White

Secondly. Why call for a bandwagon and then FoS myself, Mufasa and Lowell for obliging you.

You can garner a lot of info by who votes when and why.


Votes Lowell in Post 25 for nothing other than "I have my reasons".

@DeathNote. Why risk BC like this, for all you know he could have a power role. Is it worth such a risk?

Says someone who was also voting for him and didn't seem to have a problem with voting him.


Nice OMGUS on Saber in Post 55. Also on Post 55:

@ Saber. How are competing bandwagons useful for town? We should examine everyone as equally as possible instead of concentrating on two random individuals to avoid what could be an inevitable mislynch.

So now that focus is on you, everyone should be looking at everyone else equally? That's not really how mafia is played.

I really don't care for Post 75.

1. How are we supposed to look at everyone equally? It seems to me like you are trying to deflect attention off yourself.

2. Saberwolf already answered your questions before you ever asked them in 59. It seems you have given him a good reason to keep his vote on you based on your reactions.

My Milked Eek - Where is my Appeal to Emotion? Just for the record i do it quite a bit as scum and town but i fail to see where i used it.

I don't think that using AtE at all helps your game whether you admit to using it or not.


I have found a couple appeals to emotion from her

Appeals to Emotion: Posts 19, 25

And quite a bit of fluff too.

Fluff: 33, 36, 38, 41, 47, 48, 51.

It's just a lot of spam, like she is definitely trying hard to be seen as active and participating.


On Post 83, how did Sanjay answer Lowell's question? Lowell had more than one question and I'm glad to see at the time that this was occuring that someone did take the initiative to show how contradictory of a question that "How do you know that there are many scum?" is, especially because Lowell didn't say that there were "MANY" scum. He said "One scum down,

however many

to go." You then go on to praise Wicked for the question, and then insinuate that it could be a slip on Lowell's part. Wow. Way to not read Lowell's 2 posts in iso and see what he really said.



On Post 121...

1. You're right showing emotion is not prohibited, and no one except one person was talking about your smilies. It's when you show emotion and scummy reactions to people voting for you and using AtE because you say it's part of your meta.

2. Your question to DeathNote was "Why risk BC like this". I can see why you would ask this because at this point BC was at L-3 (for those of you that don't believe me go back and read, you guys almost had a lynch on the first page).

3. If I was here at the beginning of the game, I probably would have done the same and voted him when I saw that he asked.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

5. You completely contradicted yourself here. First you say you voted him because he was infuriating (nice ad hom btw) and the second you said you voted for pressure? Make up your mind. On top of it all, your vote is OMGUS, and you are being quite scumtastic while you are trying to prove that wrong.


I also think that you refer to joking and humor way too much. You can easily say that everything that you say is a joke, but that just makes you look more scummy.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

Ad hom. Ad hom. Ad hom. You need to attack the argument not the person.

And more appeals to emotion!

On DeathNote

FOS: DeathNote

for the following post....

Vote: BloodCovenant

I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to hammer when the time comes...

I don't like this at all. Seriously? The dude was almost lynched within the first two pages.

On Mufasa

Why the fos when you self voted that gives me the warrant to auto vote you.

Why does it give you the warrant to auto vote? Self voting can garner information in the right setting.


You say this:

you vote me in every game saberwolf

And then were debunked here

mufasa this is our second game together. Our first game we lynched you for suspicious hammering, and even then I was your only supporter as I was sure you were town, but you not contributing didn't allow us the luxury of keeping you around.

Were you trying to cast some early suspicion on saber?

On Dramonic

Random votes? (I'm questioning this because should he have seen that you guys skipped RVS?) SW in Post 20. Although, it seemed to me like he was voting her based on her AtE in the previous post, but he says in Post 31 that he's voting her because she's her and that he doesn't like her avi.

He kind of asked you to answer your question, not someone else's. Noted, however.

So just because Wicked asked a question of someone else, Sanjay can't voice his opinion? Doing this analysis, I'm in agreement with Sanjay. This is a rather scummy comment imho.

And for the record, he said:

One scum down,

however many

to go.

And then you go and vote Sanjay because quite a few of you have misunderstood what was originally said by Lowell.

On Sanjay

I'm going to leave my vote where it is right now because I don't see how I'll get another chance to put it there.

Aren't you just filled with regret that your vote can never go back to you?

What if you find out you are mafia later?!!

I lol'd at this.

On Wickedestjr

This question is based at Lowell

How do you know that there are many scum?

Did you not read what Lowell said? Or did you only take the part that you could easily misrepresent him about? Sanjay called you out on it when it happened, now I'm calling you out on it. Lowell said "One scum down,

however many

to go." He has only two posts in his iso and you can easily go back and see this. So you DID misrepresent him.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

You pretty much claimed to be scum.

Serious strawman here. How and when did he claim to be scum? Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

Mufasa - Does it bother you that saberwolf votes you in every game he and you play together?

I don't think this question is a good one because Saber specifically stated that they have only played one game together.


So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

On Saberwolf

So far, I'm getting a town read on Saber.

I definitely agree with saber about Mufasa in his Post 100. I have played with Mufasa before and I have seen the same thing.



SolemnJ and Santos' silence is bothering.


Leaving off at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 1

I would like to add that while Empire of the Sun may be a band. The name "Empire of the Sun" is more famously known from the amazing movie made by Steven Spielberg in the 1980s.

Ok, serious WTF on the bandwagon right out the gate. You guys had BC at L-3 before the bottom of the first page.

On my predecessor, Nook

Finally shows up at Post 69. He responds to Snow White's reasoning for voting Saber, and I think it's very well thought out. Random votes Sanjay, and mentions that the possible roles are interesting.

He does stay a bit too quiet for my liking.

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

On almightybob

I feel sheepish. Apologies to Cookie for the PM-reading accusation. My bad.

What are you talking about here? I don't see anything about PM reading in any of the posts prior to this.

On Snow White

Secondly. Why call for a bandwagon and then FoS myself, Mufasa and Lowell for obliging you.

You can garner a lot of info by who votes when and why.


Votes Lowell in Post 25 for nothing other than "I have my reasons".

@DeathNote. Why risk BC like this, for all you know he could have a power role. Is it worth such a risk?

Says someone who was also voting for him and didn't seem to have a problem with voting him.


Nice OMGUS on Saber in Post 55. Also on Post 55:

@ Saber. How are competing bandwagons useful for town? We should examine everyone as equally as possible instead of concentrating on two random individuals to avoid what could be an inevitable mislynch.

So now that focus is on you, everyone should be looking at everyone else equally? That's not really how mafia is played.

I really don't care for Post 75.

1. How are we supposed to look at everyone equally? It seems to me like you are trying to deflect attention off yourself.

2. Saberwolf already answered your questions before you ever asked them in 59. It seems you have given him a good reason to keep his vote on you based on your reactions.

My Milked Eek - Where is my Appeal to Emotion? Just for the record i do it quite a bit as scum and town but i fail to see where i used it.

I don't think that using AtE at all helps your game whether you admit to using it or not.


I have found a couple appeals to emotion from her

Appeals to Emotion: Posts 19, 25

And quite a bit of fluff too.

Fluff: 33, 36, 38, 41, 47, 48, 51.

It's just a lot of spam, like she is definitely trying hard to be seen as active and participating.


On Post 83, how did Sanjay answer Lowell's question? Lowell had more than one question and I'm glad to see at the time that this was occuring that someone did take the initiative to show how contradictory of a question that "How do you know that there are many scum?" is, especially because Lowell didn't say that there were "MANY" scum. He said "One scum down,

however many

to go." You then go on to praise Wicked for the question, and then insinuate that it could be a slip on Lowell's part. Wow. Way to not read Lowell's 2 posts in iso and see what he really said.



On Post 121...

1. You're right showing emotion is not prohibited, and no one except one person was talking about your smilies. It's when you show emotion and scummy reactions to people voting for you and using AtE because you say it's part of your meta.

2. Your question to DeathNote was "Why risk BC like this". I can see why you would ask this because at this point BC was at L-3 (for those of you that don't believe me go back and read, you guys almost had a lynch on the first page).

3. If I was here at the beginning of the game, I probably would have done the same and voted him when I saw that he asked.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

5. You completely contradicted yourself here. First you say you voted him because he was infuriating (nice ad hom btw) and the second you said you voted for pressure? Make up your mind. On top of it all, your vote is OMGUS, and you are being quite scumtastic while you are trying to prove that wrong.


I also think that you refer to joking and humor way too much. You can easily say that everything that you say is a joke, but that just makes you look more scummy.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

Ad hom. Ad hom. Ad hom. You need to attack the argument not the person.

And more appeals to emotion!

On DeathNote

FOS: DeathNote

for the following post....

Vote: BloodCovenant

I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to hammer when the time comes...

I don't like this at all. Seriously? The dude was almost lynched within the first two pages.

On Mufasa

Why the fos when you self voted that gives me the warrant to auto vote you.

Why does it give you the warrant to auto vote? Self voting can garner information in the right setting.


You say this:

you vote me in every game saberwolf

And then were debunked here

mufasa this is our second game together. Our first game we lynched you for suspicious hammering, and even then I was your only supporter as I was sure you were town, but you not contributing didn't allow us the luxury of keeping you around.

Were you trying to cast some early suspicion on saber?

On Dramonic

Random votes? (I'm questioning this because should he have seen that you guys skipped RVS?) SW in Post 20. Although, it seemed to me like he was voting her based on her AtE in the previous post, but he says in Post 31 that he's voting her because she's her and that he doesn't like her avi.

He kind of asked you to answer your question, not someone else's. Noted, however.

So just because Wicked asked a question of someone else, Sanjay can't voice his opinion? Doing this analysis, I'm in agreement with Sanjay. This is a rather scummy comment imho.

And for the record, he said:

One scum down,

however many

to go.

And then you go and vote Sanjay because quite a few of you have misunderstood what was originally said by Lowell.

On Sanjay

I'm going to leave my vote where it is right now because I don't see how I'll get another chance to put it there.

Aren't you just filled with regret that your vote can never go back to you?

What if you find out you are mafia later?!!

I lol'd at this.

On Wickedestjr

This question is based at Lowell

How do you know that there are many scum?

Did you not read what Lowell said? Or did you only take the part that you could easily misrepresent him about? Sanjay called you out on it when it happened, now I'm calling you out on it. Lowell said "One scum down,

however many

to go." He has only two posts in his iso and you can easily go back and see this. So you DID misrepresent him.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

You pretty much claimed to be scum.

Serious strawman here. How and when did he claim to be scum? Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

Mufasa - Does it bother you that saberwolf votes you in every game he and you play together?

I don't think this question is a good one because Saber specifically stated that they have only played one game together.


So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

On Saberwolf

So far, I'm getting a town read on Saber.

I definitely agree with saber about Mufasa in his Post 100. I have played with Mufasa before and I have seen the same thing.



SolemnJ and Santos' silence is bothering.


Leaving off at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Mod - Can you delete my double post?

My computer screwed up.



Also, I realized that you can't Unvote in this game, lol. Currently the person I find most scummy is Snow White.

Vote: Snow White

[Starbuck]

One thing that does bother me so far (and I haven't finished my analysis yet) is that it seems like Wicked and Snow White are trying their best to tiptoe around each other. It seems like a very fine line between distancing and buddying.

[Starbuck]

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

I'm sorry, this just feels hypocritical.

I've been more quiet because i'm in three large games, and two normal games. I'm still learning my limits.

So you have an excuse for your lurking....hmmm....

And how is it hypocritical? I think you used the wrong word there.

[Starbuck]

I realized it after the fact, and fixed it, but my point on your not reading the rules is the fact that you had THE FIRST POST in the game and failed to see that.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of page 6

On my predecessor, Nook

Quite a hypocritical post from Nook in Post 143.

On SolemnJ

Even though Nook was hypocritical in 143, he has a point and the fact that you responded to it so quickly proves to me that you are active lurking.

On Sanjay

BC hasn't posted very much to really analyzed, but I think there is more to being on his wagon than simple dislike of self-voters (in my experience self-voting is rather townish).

I used to be of the mindset that self-voting was scummy, but now I've seen it used in so many predicaments that it's now a null tell for me. That being said, I am in agreement with you that there is more to just self-voting for those on his wagon.

On Saberwolf

I am definitely impressed with your play thus far, and I'm still reading townie on you.

Post 126 hit the nail on the head.

On My Milked Eek

So everyone who lies back and watches the game is town?
"supposed to be town"?

Great point towards Snow White here.

On MrSuave

@SW: how does arrogance translate into being scummy? O_o
and how does being mad translate into a valid reason to vote someone?
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a form of OMGUS?

Somebody gets it.

On Santos

I love how he casually enters the game six pages in at Post 130, and then he votes Lowell who hasn't been around since the start of the game. Seriously dude, you haven't been around either, why don't you try scumhunting?

On BloodCovenent

My question to you still stands. You had the first post in the game and you seemingly neglected to read the rules. I don't find your vote on yourself to be scummy, but I do find the fact that you didn't read the rules of the game to be scummy. You then state that you would have voted "no lynch" if you had actually read the rules. You talk about how you policy vote at the beginning of each game, either yourself or Kise. Why is that?

If you're going to give a pressure vote, then actually put some pressure on the player. When you vote someone, and label it a "pressure" vote almost immediately after the action, it denotes the purpose. A better pressure vote would have been waiting at least a few hours.

I believe his pressure started working before that, as Snow White was already quite defensive prior to him even voting her.

On Wickedestjr

For some reason I thought saber's vote for Snow White was random.

It took you this long to realize this?

After Wicked's Post 156, Post 159, I don't think I'm that far off with the distancing/buddying theory. He quickly goes from semi-defending her to voting her.

Also, good job jumping on dramonic for complaining about pointless discussion, but not doing anything to be rid of it.

On almightybob

Yes, you can. But SW isn't agreeing with any case, she's admitted that she's voting for saber because she

finds him annoying. It feels more like she added the "pressure for an unjust vote" part to make it seem OK, but to be honest, pressure for an unjust vote just boils down to OMGUS.

Now as I've said, I don't think OMGUS is a scumtell, but I don't like votes for weak weak reasons like "I'm irritated".

QFT.

On Snow White

It sounds like you don't have a dictionary in your house, Ms. Queen of teh Ad hom.

Could you explain your reasoning for considering arrogance a scumtell?

Simply it means in my mind anyway, one is concentrating hard on one individual without examining the rest. I find it anti town not to explore other players ideas and concentrating on one, sole individual to get them lynched. I cant call it pro town.

You just defined tunneling, not arrogance.

I really didn't see Saber twist your words because I got the same meaning from them.

You asked MME why you are worthy of pressure, he probably already answered this but I will do so too. You have been acting very scummy. Your vote is textbook OMGUS and your reasons contradict themselves. You are basing everything more on emotion then fact, then try to deflect attention off yourself, but rather fail at doing so.

So why don't you see town being aggressive? Why couldn't town be aggressive? If a townie feels that they have found a scum, should they sit back and twiddle their thumbs or be in there with a case?

Are you saying you assumed Saber to be town? Why is that?

Well im not psychic with any preconcieved visions of who may or may not be scum. Frankly when i go into a game everyone starts with a scum level of zero. It builds from there depending on peoples interactions, thoughts and their votes. Do you not think?

First off, get off your high horse with your insults and put downs. It's getting old. Second, you never answered the question, you beat around the bush, which is definitely a scumtell.

I gave it how i meant it to be interpretted it. Like most people i assumed would interpret it, you were the one to pick it out and if you plan to argue it as a point against me i will defend myself against it. But people may read it as they may.

Now that he wasn't the only one who interpreted it that way, what do you have say now?

@Santos. I voted Lowell randomly because of our last game together he lurked absymally as scum. Id vote him but my vote is now on saberwolf.

You need to learn how to separate your games. I know Lowell only has two posts in this entire game, but seriously, you are already looking very scumtastic and then you post that you're reasoning for voting Lowell was because of a previous game? Grow up, and let go of grudges already.

In regard to my annoyance on Saber. Im willing to leave it behind until i can distinguish is it his attitude or his actions that have me ... unsettled. My vote rests with him atm because frankly id like to do a reread of the topic to date anger subsided

So you finally admit your wrongdoings because you are being led by your emotions, but you still refuse to unvote him.

I love how once people start asking you questions and using words like "pressure" that's when you finally state, "Oh yeah, I voted him for pressure."

In terms of OMGUS. You believe it never should be done? Its neither helpful to town or scum? Then why not use it?

How does that make any sense?

I ave said i have not liked sabers actions toward myself, i do not expect such actions from town so early. This is not to say that i am certain saber is scum. Im not. But that i have not to date liked his actions. In regard to where my vote is, where do you suggest me putting it? Unvoting means i vote myself. I for one am not enticed to do such a thing.

What about his actions? Care to cite specific posts or are you going to continue this baseless argument especially when originally your reasons (after fed to you) were because you were mad and because you were putting "pressure" on him. When really your whole vote was OMGUS.

My other issue is that you react to every single vote on you. Honestly one or two votes aren't going to make a big difference especially if they have horrible cases or horrible reasonings.

Look more AtE:

I dont believe im being all whiny and bitchy. But if i am then if someone would like to point this out i will happily replace out.

On Mufasa

I'd like to see more comprehensive posts from you.

On EtherealCookie

It doesn't seem like he read all the way up to where his post is in Post 181. His defense of Snow White seems very irrational. He says he doesn't understand her bandwagon, and that everyone is trying to justify it with silly excuses and that it seems like we're still in RVS. He also jumps all over saberwolf on one of his points, without citing any other points of his case.

His 189 just flabbergasts me. He admits to not seeing the rest of the points of the cases on Snow, as well as he only sees her as being defensive, not overdefensive.

FOS: EtherealCookie

Caught up to the bottom of page 10

[Starbuck]

@Wicked, you do realize that I'm still doing my analysis right.

I start the post with the page I'm starting on and end it with the page I left off on.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck: Nothing about me?

Haven't gotten to any posts about you or by you yet.



@ Wicked - Because if I find flaws with my predecessor, I do like to point them out. But apparently, according to you, I can't do that? You seem to think so via the following two posts...

The bolded portion is scummy. I don't know why she would point this out if she were town. Which is enough a reason to find it scummy itself, but that is not the reason I pointed it out. I think she was worried that we might find her scummy for trying to make her predecessor seetm townie, so she decided to make the bolded comment. This combined with my scum read on nook is giving me bad vibes from Starbuck so far.

Quite a hypocritical post from Nook in Post 143.

So? Why are you pointing it out?

Do you still find this wierd after reading the whole thread?

Because, Snow White has already explained this.

Maybe I just haven't gotten to that yet?

You [Sanjay] then go on to praise Wicked for the question,

Where?

You wrote Sanjay in that post and this was directed at Snow White, so I have no idea what you are getting at here.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

Stupid question.

Why is it? She explicitly stated that she voted Lowell because of the previous game they were in.

You need to attack the argument not the person.

Why?

Because otherwise, it's considered ad hominem. You shouldn't personally attack the person that you are scumhunting, you need to be attacking their behavior/their argument.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

Then why did you point it out in the first place?

Because you went on and on about it, and you were called out on it multiple times. It shouldn't take that many times to be called out on something to look up Lowell's two posts in ISO to see what people are talking about. It definitely feels like you were ignoring the situation here.

1: Serious strawman here. 2: How and when did he claim to be scum? 3: Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

1: Yeah I know. Why are you doing that?

2: I have explained this. On his very first post he votes himself and says "let's skip the RVS". I thought this implied he was pretending his vote was serious. I also thought that this meant he was pretending to be scum and voting himself in order to skip the RVS. I also came to the conclusion that he was pretending this in order to get us out of the RVS because I don't see how he was intending to get out of the RVS if that wasn't what he was doing.

3: Really?

1. Yeah, you know what? And Why am I doing what?

2. You said he CLAIMED scum. He never once CLAIMED scum, and you just said so right here. You stated what you THOUGHT he IMPLIED, not what he actually DID.

3. The point of mafia is to hunt out the scum. If scum claims as scum or others claim as scum, they pretty will ruin the game for everyone else. I would figure that this is knowledge that would be known prior to ever playing a mafia game.

1: So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. 2: She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. 3: He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. 4: I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. 5: You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

1: I thought it was random because he didn't actually give a case at the time of the vote. So I just assumed the vote was random.

2: This wasn't one of the reasons he gave at the time of his vote. And also, I don't think she was the only player that was posting fluff. This was very early in the game.

3: See my response to 1.

4: I kept pushing for a response because he hadn't given one. I didn't realize my mistake until he did.

5: Alright. I've realized my mistake and I'm not doing it anymore. Not much more I think I can say.

Okay Starbuck is scum.

1. You assumed and were told multiple times that Saber's vote was not random, and you never went back to see this fact. Another instance of you ignoring what actually happened and twisting it for your own purposes.

2. She may have not been the only one posting fluff, but she was posting damn well most of it.

3. How can you say he didn't post it when he voted her? You may want to check out this link, and look I'll quote it for you too!

I have decided to:

unvote; vote: Snow White

because competing BWs are useful for town, IMO.

It may not be an altogether good reason, but it still is a reason which makes his vote NOT random.

4. What do you mean that you didn't realize your mistake until he did?

5. Got nothing for this one.

Currently the person I find most scummy is Snow White.

Vote: Snow White

Very convenient.

How so?

I have made a case on her.

One thing that does bother me so far (and I haven't finished my analysis yet) is that it seems like Wicked and Snow White are trying their best to tiptoe around each other. It seems like a very fine line between distancing and buddying.

Examples?

Noting this because I will provide this after I finish my analysis.

I love how he casually enters the game six pages in at Post 130, and then he votes Lowell who hasn't been around since the start of the game. Seriously dude, you haven't been around either, why don't you try scumhunting?

I think this point is incorrect.

How so? Read him in iso and click on the link next to his first post. If I am still incorrect on this point, then please point me to where I can be corrected.

Also, good job jumping on dramonic for complaining about pointless discussion, but not doing anything to be rid of it.

I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic attack of me or you actually thought it was good of me to FoS Dramonic. If it is a sarcastic attack of me, then you are wrong, because I am one of the few people that was actually trying to get out of the RVS, and I wasn't complaining about the discussion we had at the time.

This was a compliment. I'm glad that someone pointed this out when this happened.





Anyways, back to work, the rest of my analysis will be up tonight.

[Starbuck]

Apologies for my lateness with the rest of my analysis. We had Autumnfest on base this weekend, and working for the base Security Department, I had to work. The best part of the weekend though was today when my Windows 7 finally got installed!


Starting at the top of page 11

Btw, in case I didn't say it before, <3 to my Save the Mafia friends!

On Snow White

DO makes a very good post here summarizing all of her action to date.

MME makes a very good point about the use of emoticons here. I find it rather strange that the minute it was called out, she stopped doing it.

So she unvotes Saberwolf in 288 for no other reason other than I think too many people said that she was being rash, but then she votes Lowell for no reason.

This post bothers me especially the following comment:

Ehm yah, anyone who votes me before i have my reread up should be treated like scum imho. Especially if im hammered. Seeing as im like only 2votes away from my lynch. Eep!

I'm trying to figure out why Snow White had to go back and give a run through of every single post in 312. All I really see is a lot of summarizing to make it look like she's being active and talking in the third person.

I definitely don't like the following:

Admittedly I do use AtE quite alot. Its not the first time someones tried to use it against me. But for arguements sake ill post a list of other games when ive been town and used it too. It just comes naturally im afraid. Dramaqueen, but not normally in the sense of "if you lynch me you'll regret it". My AtE all tend to have a dramatised point.

Making excuses for using a scummy tactic. I don't like it at all.

Newbscum. Were i to pick two words to describe me. Calculating and Manipulative.

I have yet to see this.

What am i meant to do sit back and hope no one notices the accumulating votes on me? Townie or scum i wouldnt want that!

There's a difference between noticing votes on you and overreacting to votes placed on you. It's the latter that people are seeing.


So explain to me how you FOS Wicked in 312, but then you turn right around and say that you agree with Almightybob that Wicked is town in 348.

On xRECKONERx

I finally get to the post where you replace in!

I definitely like your analysis in 262 and 263, and I completely agree with your vote on Mufasa in 270.

On Mufasa

I really don't like his jump onto the Snow White bandwagon here. He just says that the "Snow White train needs to be toughened up".

On Wickedestjr

The constant report writing his does is definitely making the game more tedious than fun.

Although, I do agree with his case on MrSuave in 278, but I disagree with his reads at the end of the post particularly on the following:

Mufasa - Neutral - He has done nothing to raise my suspicions thus far. This is typical Mufasa I think. But I've never seen him as scum.

This seems very, very weird, especially after Mufasa's very scummy jump onto Snow White's bandwagon.

SolemnJ - Town/Neutral - Too many people I could see being scum. He is probably town.

I know that Solemn is replaced now, but I don't like how he gives Solemn a free pass here, especially since the guy has not participated at all.

xRECKONERx - Scum - Didn't like his catch-up post. Many of the points in it were bad.

Saying many of his points were bad and not explaining why they were bad is just scummy in my book. You say you don't like the points he provides against MrSuave, but you don't say why you don't like them. The same with his post about Sanjay's 175, you just say you don't like it, and you do not provide a reason why.

Santos - Scum - Haven't been impressed by any of his posts.

How about something concrete? Like a case?


Sanjay pretty much summed up what I was thinking with this question:

You have a neutral read on Lowell, a neutral/scum read on nook and a neutral/town read on SolemnJ. Could you explain where the difference is coming from?

On Santos

The fact that he says that he needs to re-read Lowell strikes a nerve with me. It shows me that he has not been paying any attention at all to the game.

On Sanjay

He makes very good points about Mufasa in Post 282. I've read through all of his posts where he is responding to everyone's questions and he does has concise and well thought out responses.

On BloodCovenent

I'm really not a fan of his huge long silences that he's been taking.

His first four posts are on Oct 3rd
Then he doesn't post until Oct 5th and 6th

After this, he DOES NOT post until October 14th! He went 8 days without saying anything. This bothers me a great deal that no one even seemed to notice.

He posts on the 15th and 16th
Then he doesn't post until the 18th
After that, he doesn't post again until the 21st

Now we have not heard from him in 4 days.

I would think the first time that he was absent for 8 days would be enough to get him permanently replaced.


So after all of the above explain how you think the following is hypocritical, BC:

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

I'm sorry, this just feels hypocritical.

I've been more quiet because i'm in three large games, and two normal games. I'm still learning my limits.

Honestly, going 8 days and now 4 without posting anything shows me that maybe you are just lurking scum.

I responded to the above in 358, and I really don't care for BC's response to it in 359, especially with what I outlined above and the fact that he hasn't been back since then.


On top of all this, he votes for SolemnJ in Post 357 for lurking and being anti-town when he actually posted. The guy has 3 posts! How anti-town can someone be in 3 posts? Let's look, shall we?

/hello.

hm...

nook, stfu; I'll post when I feel it helps the town.

And that will be by the end of the day.

I have a little problem finding time to post, but I promise not to let you people down.

I'll have my beliefs by the end of tomorrow morning.

I can see the second one being anti-town, but the first and third, not at all.

Someone's trying to take the easy way out.



With what I've discovered about BC, I'm thinking that he is the better lynch today. I'm still very suspicious of Snow White, and I'll be watching her closely.

Vote: BloodCovenent

Caught up to the bottom of page 15

[Starbuck]

@Wicked -

I don't see any reason why a townie would point out the scummy things that their predecessor did. Why do you think it is a good idea to post the scummy things your predecessor did? What reason did you do it?

I think it's scummy to not point out what someone finds wrong with what their predecessor did, whether town or scum. Everyone else that's playing already has an opinion based on the person who was in the role before you got there. If you are town and the predecessor made themselves look scummy, you have to work really hard to show that you aren't scum, and vice versa.

You've played a game or two with me. I can't remember if I replaced into them or not since I do that quite a bit, but I always go over my predecessor's posts.

You [Sanjay] then go on to praise Wicked for the question,

Where?

You wrote Sanjay in that post and this was directed at Snow White, so I have no idea what you are getting at here.

Oh I thought this was directed at Sanjay. Regardless of who it was directed at, please tell me where it happened.

Post 83

I think its an apt question on Wicked's part. The game has hardly begun, it might be a slip on Lowell's part, it could be quite innocent. Is not something to consider so serious but enough to put a slight pressure on.

I have voted many people for making bad arguments alone. I see no problem with it.

I think this is perfectly fine. It's when the fine line of attacking the argument turns into attacking the person.

Really? I went on and on about it? Please show me all the posts that make you feel this way. Because I asked the question in my first post, and then didn't say anything about it until Sanjay pointed out that I misread it. As soon as he did I admitted my mistake. So this is wrong.

Wow, I'm definitely wrong here. So many others went off on the tangent after you brought it up that I thought you did too. I apologize.

2. It was very early in the game, like I also said. Who cares how much fluff a person posts in the RVS? I don't.

How can you say this when RVS was pretty much ended on the first page of the game? You had the ones that came in later and still random voted, but the game was out of RVS before the end of the first page.

I just find it a bit convenient that you happen to vote the person that most of the others suspect. I'm not using it against you, I just find it convenient.

At that point, she was the person who I felt was the scummiest and not the person that nook had placed a vote on. I definitely don't want to vote for myself, so I put my vote on the person I found the scummiest.

Also, I wasn't (and still am not) completely caught up yet, but with game mechanics as they are this game, I didn't want my vote on someone that I didn't suspect.




All my games are in my Wiki if you need to refer to them.

[Starbuck]

I figured this close to the deadline i was gonna have to claim but i had hoped people were coming around so basically stalling in the hope someone else might slip.

This whole sentence is just very, very scummy to me. Stalling in hopes that someone else might slip? It just rubs me the wrong way.


So she claims Town Cop, but there isn't one listed on the first page as everyone else has mentioned.

How could that explain the overuse of emoticons? I really don't get it.

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured. Eep! Plan was to investigate Wicked... someone who i thought had a higher likelihood of being innocent and going from that as my sanity, provided he turned up innocent. If he was guilty i was then going to wait till night2 if i lived so long as to pick someone else i considered highly innocent or highly scum and then work off that. Complicated! But then again so is this role tbh.

Why would you tell everyone your plan for night actions? I don't understand this.

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured.

Why did you feel the need to say this? Surely if there was another cop, they would have been told the same. Also, this seems to contradict the role pm on the first page.

Actually it doesn't, because the first page has the role of Back-up as well, but the fact that she would even mention that fact bothers me. The unfortunate thing with open games is that people can try to come out as other roles than what they are since the roles are on the front page.


Wicked makes every point that should be made about Snow White's claim post in his 450.


If she really isn't the Town Detective, I definitely think that the real one needs to stay quiet and only come forward when they actually have some results. With the fact that no one has CC'd her yet, I'm willing to give her a one day reprieve as long as she comes back with some type of results tomorrow. I have played a game where one of the mafia came out as the cop. The real cop didn't CC until very late in the day on Day 3, but I was on the guy's tail from the moment I replaced in. I will be watching her closely.



Just food for thought. It just gets me thinking to how quickly she backed off BC when no one else did.

[Starbuck]

Ugh so long... *annoyed face*

Yes im scum this is why people are trigger happily voting me. [/sarcasm]

Eh... have you been totally oblivious to the amount of people hounding me? Im aware sometimes that notall cop claims are believed.

I'm trying to figure out if the above two quotes are more AtE or just being antagonistic.

@Wicked. And yet it has come from a townie. Seriously, either way i have the most amount of votes of so i'd be killed at deadline no?

You are talking like you are confirmed when you are not. That's just bad ju ju.

Town Detective. Its rather long to type and im just used to refering to the role as cop. Its the same thing with a different name.

This just sounds like an excuse now.

As someone who's gotten burned quite a bit on not claiming flavor correctly (you said you read the Twilight game, so I'm sure you saw), then I definitely think that if you are such a pivotal role as a cop, then you definitely need to claim your flavor exactly as it is written.

I had been CONSIDERING claiming because nothing else seemed to be happening. Oh dont get me wrong the FoS were riveting and provided small glimmers of hope so much for me to hold out but as the days narrowed down the deadline grew closer and i considered just bursting in here and going "hey guise! guess what!? :Very Happy: Im cop! :Very Happy:" jk. i would have but something in there a bit snider

So explain to me how you just busting out with your claim at any other time (other than being at L-2 or L-1) would be pro-town?

Her "case" on me felt extremely forced. She was being overly aggressive as if being fed up of the lynch taking so long. An she was online when i made my claim. She has yet to post about it and since logging on again. She still appears to be online.

How did my case feel forced? You provide no examples.

Your second sentence is nothing but WIFOM. I just got here and I've been working on my analysis, so I definitely wanted to be able to finish it before the lynch.

Now that I'm finally able to catch up after my weekend and my long posts underneath this one, are there any other questions about me "being online when you claimed and not posting about it"? Or am I just supposed to abandon my analysis because you finally decided to claim?

[Starbuck]

Finally caught up! YAY!

Mod - Can we have prods on the following:

Mufasa - Last Post on Thurs, Oct 22nd
BloodCovenent - Last Post on Weds, Oct 21st
MrSuave - Last Post on Mon, Oct 19th

[Starbuck]

I was gonna say, Reck! LoL.

[Starbuck]

I'm very very tempted to vote Starbuck for commenting on Reck's question without answering it.

Did you not read the following post by FaerieLord after that? His question is directed at Snow White, not myself.

FOS: Sposh

For trying and failing miserably to misrepresent me and not reading things thoroughly

[Starbuck]

@Wicked - How did I overreact? He was definitely trying to misrepresent me there.

[Starbuck]

Mod: I'm not voting for Sposh. I FOS'd him.

I'm voting for BloodCovenent

[Starbuck]

Let me add that you have me on the list voting twice, but neither is for the person I am currently voting for (BloodCovenent).

You have me voting Snow White and Sposh.

[Starbuck]

So this is what bothers me about both claims....neither said "Town Detective" which I would think if they were, they would claim the flavor to a "T".

I'm leaving my vote on BC because he seems to just be trying to save himself at the last minute. While SW's claim was rather scummy too, BC just seems to be saying anything to keep himself from a lynch.

[Starbuck]

So why would you say "Town Cop" and not "Town Detective" when that's one of the reasons most people are skeptical about Snow White's claim?

[Starbuck]

So why would you say "Town Cop" and not "Town Detective" when that's one of the reasons most people are skeptical about Snow White's claim?

Because those two roles are nearly identical.

That doesn't excuse the fact that the ROLE in this game is DETECTIVE and not COP.

[Starbuck]

Why are you leaving the game at the end of your to do list when we can all go to your profile and do a search of your posts and see you active elsewhere?

You ARE avoiding this game. It's blatantly obvious.

[Starbuck]

So since it seems like you aren't catching up and aren't really concerned with what's been said, I'm going to bring my case on you up here, which can be found in my Post 464.

On BloodCovenent

I'm really not a fan of his huge long silences that he's been taking.

His first four posts are on Oct 3rd
Then he doesn't post until Oct 5th and 6th

After this, he DOES NOT post until October 14th! He went 8 days without saying anything. This bothers me a great deal that no one even seemed to notice.

He posts on the 15th and 16th
Then he doesn't post until the 18th
After that, he doesn't post again until the 21st

Now we have not heard from him in 4 days.

I would think the first time that he was absent for 8 days would be enough to get him permanently replaced.


So after all of the above explain how you think the following is hypocritical, BC:

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

I'm sorry, this just feels hypocritical.

I've been more quiet because i'm in three large games, and two normal games. I'm still learning my limits.

Honestly, going 8 days and now 4 without posting anything shows me that maybe you are just lurking scum.

I responded to the above in 358, and I really don't care for BC's response to it in 359, especially with what I outlined above and the fact that he hasn't been back since then.


On top of all this, he votes for SolemnJ in Post 357 for lurking and being anti-town when he actually posted. The guy has 3 posts! How anti-town can someone be in 3 posts? Let's look, shall we?

/hello.

hm...

nook, stfu; I'll post when I feel it helps the town.

And that will be by the end of the day.

I have a little problem finding time to post, but I promise not to let you people down.

I'll have my beliefs by the end of tomorrow morning.

I can see the second one being anti-town, but the first and third, not at all.

Someone's trying to take the easy way out.



With what I've discovered about BC, I'm thinking that he is the better lynch today. I'm still very suspicious of Snow White, and I'll be watching her closely.

Vote: BloodCovenent

To add on to my inactivity list of you at the top of this quote....

You are now at a total of 17 DAYS OF INACTIVITY on DAY 1.

During your 8 day absence (from the 6th until the 14th, you have 22 posts elsewhere.

You went from the 21st to the 26th, ANOTHER 5 WHOLE DAYS without being active in this game. In between these two dates, you have 25 posts elsewhere.

BC: You're at L-2 with about 4 days to go before deadline. Claim ASAP please.

I take it you'd like me to skip my analysis and previous questions asked? And just claim?

I'm a cop.

I definitely think you need to add your input.




More Excuses!

But the thing that you may fail to realize, is that...
1. it's been a while since i've checked my PM, until recent, of course.
2. I haven't been the most active, leaving this game near the end of my to do list.

1. How would I know when you check your PM? How does this have anything to do with the situation at hand?

2. I already answered this in 521.

Because it's been generally boring for me. I'm not sure why. I was more enthusiastic about it before the game started. Originally I was just in to replace, but when I saw that there was little interest in it, and it was re-opened, i felt obligated to /in instead of /in to replace.

Yea, my excuses are lame, I just have had difficulty getting into it, especially with what's going on at school and stuff.

You should never feel obligated to /in to a game. But when you do /in to a game, you should honor that commitment by being active. Right now, the focus is on you and the fact that you don't even seem to care, irks me.

You keep saying over and over that you don't have time and you aren't around, and you aren't into the game. I'm not buying it especially with the fact that you were active on this site and in other games during the time of your absence of posting here.

[Starbuck]

So SW, no replies to anything I said?

[Starbuck]

SW's staunch defense of BC just rubs me the wrong way.

[Starbuck]

In fact i maybe suggesting something ludachris.... no lynch?

This is srsly scummy.

QFT.

[Starbuck]

Wow, quite an attitude on this one.

How is calling BC a bastard a breadcrumb that you are the detective? I don't see this.

[Starbuck]

I thought every large game HAD to have a co-mod? I don't see anything listed on the first page.

[Starbuck]

Happy Birthday Saber!

[Starbuck]

Has anyone PM'd the Large Theme list mod yet?

[Starbuck]

Bah, go town!

<3

See you at endgame.

[Starbuck]

Good job, Cookie!