Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[elvis_knits]

I haven't read anything except that we lynched scum D1, and I am currently self-voting.

unvote

There should be some good leads from lynching scum D1. Have you guys been following those leads?

I'll read a bit tonight or tomorrow morning and get moving here.

[elvis_knits]

lol

Crap.

Should I just revote myself until I know where I want to put it?

vote elvis knits

[elvis_knits]

OMG

There's a nother rule says I cann't vote for myself by choice...



I am so sorry...

[elvis_knits]

Hopefully Max has mercy on me.

vote: darmonic

Looking at page 1 he was first to stray from bloodcovenant wagon and it looks like he didn't help lynch BCscum.

Didn't have time to look further, and wanted to put a real vote down in hopes of avoiding modkill from max...

[elvis_knits]

No I'm not a vig.

[elvis_knits]

I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet but I tried to figure out the claimed roles so far and why the mrsuave wagon is happening (just so I know what is currently happening).

Snowwhite claimed cop I think... what was her result from last night?

Mufasa claimed vig and said his target was Mr.Suave, and since MrSuave didn't die, we think it was mafia redirector that "protected" Mr Suave? I'm still not sure how this mafia redirector thing works. If someone could post the thinking there, I would appreciate it. Is it like mafia redirector would target Mufasa and (MME or starbuck)?

(I know this post sucks but I just wanted to post something as I go along so you all don't think I'm not trying... and maybe so you can help me along).

[elvis_knits]

However, the mod has told us that it works like Scenario Two, so unfortunately we can't infer anything about MrSuave's role from the vig claim.

So why is there a wagon on him?

[elvis_knits]

I think the problem is people saying...

"I'm voting mrsuave because of [flawed logic/redirector misunderstanding]"

Then when the logic is shown flawed, they say...

"I'm still voting MrSuave! I'll change my reasoning, but keep my vote there!"

*cough* Dramonic *cough*

hmm? Why suave in particular?

Right then, wouldn't that mean Suave was protected by a mafia redirector yesterday night, therefore most likely making him mafia?

Thank you, cookie boy

Unvote
Vote: Suave
works for me.

And now that we know that's wrong, and I ask why he's voting mrsuave, he says:

call it gut.

I call BS.

Dramonic originally asked other people why they were voting mrsuave. He didn't have a reason to vote mrsuave. I see no evidence of a gut read on mrsuave.

I'll look at the others on the wagon too, see if they did anything similar.

[elvis_knits]

They target the person with the ability and they would also select the target

Um, doesn't this mean that all the redirector did was pick Mufasa and pick either Starbuck or My Milked Eek?

How does Mr Suave factor in to this at all?

What's up, Suave-wagon? Are you reading different posts than I am?

Apparently, because I'm still pretty confused about how the redirector works, but I think I get it now.
My question is, why would the redirector pick Mufasa? What made him seem Vigilante? I mean, if the redirector picked wrong, he'd lose his ability, so it's a big risk.

Unvote

Ethereal cookie seems like he wanted to unvote when he saw he misunderstood the redirector role, so I see nothing scummy about that.

[elvis_knits]

The others voting mrsuave...

Saberwolf, I can't tell what he's doing actually. I think he thinks the misunderstanding of the redirector role is still possible, so he's still voting mrsuave. So I guess that's okay, although I'm not really sure what he's saying.

Mufasa was sort of misleading saying he was voting mrsuave because mrsuave was his intended NK target. I took that the mean that he thought his kill not going through on mrsuave was som kind of evidence that mrsuave was scum. But later he says that he just thinks mrsuave is scum, so that's why he tried to NK him and that's why he is voting him now. So I guess that's okay, but I think he was misleading to begin with.

xreckoner didn't really address the redirector problem yet as far as I can see, so I can't tell anything from that.

Conclusion:
Dramonic is the scummiest on the wagon.

[elvis_knits]

So you're telling me that you voted mrsuave based on faulty logic, so he voted you for it, and you're calling that OMGUS?

[elvis_knits]

Uhhhhhhhh.... WUT?

Have you been reading at all?

WHy is he the best lynch for today and what information will we get if he is not mafia?

[elvis_knits]

Okay, I do not think scum would fake claim cop and then their buddy would also fake counterclaim cop.

That seems very stupid since then atleast one if not both is going to be dead.

I agree it is very dissatisfying to see SW not use her ability last night. But I am inclined to give some leeway because of the reasoning above.

However, I do have a question... I don't think the rules really say that you can choose not to use your ability or what would happen if you choose not to use it (SW is saying she can now use it on some future night, right?). Did Max specify this anywhere? The role PM's don't say anything about choosing not to use your ability. Did I miss it?

[elvis_knits]

Okay, so can we get off SW and lynch dramonic?

[elvis_knits]

Also, softclaims are scummy.

"My lynch will be bad for town" is useless scare tactics.

[elvis_knits]

Actually, Dramonic is right.

SW seems to have no idea that the cop role needs to predict the outcome of their investigation.

Plan was to investigate Wicked... someone who i thought had a higher likelihood of being innocent and going from that as my sanity, provided he turned up innocent. If he was guilty i was then going to wait till night2 if i lived so long as to pick someone else i considered highly innocent or highly scum and then work off that.

So that whole part is about her trying to figure out her sanity.

But she never mentions predicting the result, and the fact that if she guesses wrong on wicked then there will be no further investigations. If she thinks wicked is going to flip town and she gets guilty, then there will be no N2. But she thinks there will be another investigation for her unless she gets killed.

She shows no understanding of how her role is supposed to work.

unvote dram; vote snow white

[elvis_knits]

I think saber is wrong because if SW is SK and not mafia, mafia aren't necessarily going to kill her. This is early days in a large game. Mafia really benefit from getting those extra kills that an SK will give them. Later on in the game if the SK seems like they are killing off too many mafiates, the mafia will want to kill the SK, but not right now. Killing the SK now makes the game much longer and harder for the mafia to win.

But the town should really want to kill the SK because that cuts out NK losses in half!

Sanjay is right though that there is no case on suave. He's not really contributing much, so in that sense I see him as expendable at best... but I am not liking the wagon since it stemmed from a misunderstanding of the redirector role. After the misunderstanding was cleared up, most people just kept voting suave. WTF. If that is not a sign of a crapwagon, I don't know what is.

Also, I don't know why people are calling almightbob scum. He is obvtown.

[elvis_knits]

VT don't usually fake claim cop. It's a very stupid thing to do.

I think almightybob is obvtown because he makes the most sense of anyone in this game. He does things like look at the BC wagon for scum buddies, and he has questioned things that don't make sense, like why people kept a wagon on suave even after everyone found out the wagon was based on a misunderstanding.

There's a lot of crap flying around and almightybob is always the voice of reason.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, elvis, let's not give any "obvtown" reads like that since SCUM WILL PICK UP ON THEM AND USE THEM TO DECIDE WHO TO KILL FFS

OR MAYBE BOB WILL GET PROTECTION

People were saying bob was scummy, and I think that's ass backwards so I'm going to say so.

[elvis_knits]

wut?

She said she didn't do it because she expected to be RBed.

Why are you thinking up extra excuses for her?

[elvis_knits]

Dramonic remove that vote. And on that how do we know there's not four mafiaso's, read the role pm's. But there is chance of a traitor.

@Saber. I said i got no results. This being because i

delibrately took no action last night.

I was fully expecting to be roleblocked.

You sound as if your honestly expecting results with a potential roleblocker in the house do you seriously think i would get results?

See post I said i had planned to investigate Wicked pre being outted. I at no point said i had changed my mind on carrying out an investigation and hoped a roleblocker would target me. Thus simply stating "no result" today.

I do hope this explains my actions (or thereof lack of) last night.

Mufasa's claim is true. I believe him wholly innocent in light of no counterclaim and if people are solely basing their vote on Mufasa as mafia being only able to take one kill and one action then this point is now invalid.

[elvis_knits]

The only reason I see not to lynch SW is if we really think she's the SK.

I was looking at roles on the first page and we might have a sigmund freud. I'm not actually sure if that role would just investigate the SK or actually cure it. But if it cured it, then that would be awesome. But who knows if we even have a sigmund freud.

I don't know if it's worth the chance to let SW live.

If we did, then I would go back to dram... since if SW is SK, Dram could very well be mafia. I don't think they're on the same team how dram just screwed SW, but they could be on different teams.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, elvis, let's not give any "obvtown" reads like that since SCUM WILL PICK UP ON THEM AND USE THEM TO DECIDE WHO TO KILL FFS

OR MAYBE BOB WILL GET PROTECTION

People were saying bob was scummy, and I think that's ass backwards so I'm going to say so.

dumbass.

doc and backup are both dead

Dammit

Sorry.

Although I still think making reads public is a good thing. Having a townie NKed is better than having them lynched.

[elvis_knits]

vote sposh

[elvis_knits]

Well his jump to suave wagon was horrible, so tha's wha tI was mainly going off. I disagree with reck that nobody has been standout scummy. I think a lot of people have.

I'm still undecided about SW. Do you thin kwe should just lynch her? I'm only wondering if she can be cured. Because I don't think she's a cop.

[elvis_knits]

@Mod: If there is a Sigmund Freud role, can they cure the SK, or just get an investigation result?

Just an investigation result.

Just an investigation result?

Pfft.

vote snow white

Only reason not to kill her is if she could be cured and be converted to town.

[elvis_knits]

First 10 pages read:

Looking at the beginning of the game, so far I think dram and saberwolf are the biggest potential BC buddies, since dram was the first person that didn't vote BC on page 1, and he voted SW (who started the BC wagon).

saberwolf on page 3 voted SW on the thinking "competing bandwagons are good for town" AKA, he wanted to take the heat off BC.

my vote was to see if any reactions occured. Also, if you happen to be scum and I start to tilt the BW your way, then it would be interesting to note what happens if the opposing BW is a scum or town one, and what scum do to prevent their member from being lynched. If I feel you are town or don't think the BW is worth pursuing, I can always take my vote off later.

Notice how he specifically mentions the competing bandwagon (BC) might be scum??

---

Sanjay's 90 sounds like town with respect to his comments on BC

BloodCovenent is of interest to me. He invites a wagon on himself and then casts huge suspicion on everyone that joins him. It's like he doesn't get his own joke. I guess that could have been his plan all along (be bait and see who bites), but it seems like bad town play. I know it is often wrong to equate bad town play with scumminess, but I do get a sort of scum vibe from BloodCovenent's play so far.

Sanjay finished the post with a vote on BC.

Later though he asks mufasa why he voted BC and why he's keeping his vote on him. Which is a little odd.

I feel mostly protown on sanjay though

---

MrSuave104, he "random" votes sanjay. Game was way past random and sanjay already looked town, so this was crap. (I realize this conflicts with my earlier read of suave as town since today's wagon on him was based on misinformation... so I am not sure on him now and thinks he needs a more thorough look).

---

Personally I like BC's post (although I wasn't one of the voters, so I'm not exactly targetted XD)

Sticking up for BCscum.

---

Nook votes solemnJ.
SolemnJ tells nook to STFU
Page8 - suave and then dram join the solemnJwagon
Sanjay asks why they're targetting solemn when there is more than one lurker (protown from sanjay)

---

Octopus votes SW, gives no reasons

[elvis_knits]

There is certainly a SK because I am Sigmund Freud.

I thought it'd be a good time to claim, since all I can do is investigate the vig and SK, and

I already used my investigation on Mufasa and got it wrong on N1 so now I'm powerless.

But at least we know there is a SK!

We already knew there was an SK, wickedestjr could only have been killed by an SK. No other role can kill in Twilight.

Regarding the bold: we already know Mufasa is the vig. If you had investigated him, you would have got a guilty result. You're lying.

Unbelievably huge HoS: Sposh

Yeah... Sposh has got to be scum.

The Freud role gets guilty on SK or Vig.

[elvis_knits]

I agree, Sposh is more a guaranteed scum lynch.

But SW is pretty close to guaranteed and she's prob SK and would reduce NKs.

Potential benefit is greater with SW, but Sposh is a sure thing.

[elvis_knits]

I can't remember if I'm voting sposh or SW.

unvote; vote sposh