California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[Mighty Orbots]

Current Soundtrack!

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil shrugs his guitar strap into a more comfortable position on his shoulder.

So... any particular reason why Door 1?

Tag fixed. - Mod

[Mighty Orbots]

Yeah, can't see how a dead body would help a charity any.

Dweezil scratches at his chin.

All things being equal, we should pick Door 2. But...

he glances at Carrie

all things aren't equal, are they?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil nods to Judge Ito.

I think the good judge has it right. I remember once on tour in Europe we got stuck in a hotel during a blizzard. There was nothin to do so I was watching some TV. There was some murder mystery cop show on there, and they talked about this door puzzle. There was some math...

here Dweezil removes a hand from the pocket of his beat-up jeans jacket and waves it in the air, as if equating mathematics to magic

and they figured you have a better-than-even shot if you switch. I didn't get it really but hey, who'm I to question math geeks?

Anyway, Judge, I'm kinda curious about the second bit. How do you figure Carrie and Mr. Hall are working together? I mean, when I was listenin here it kinda sounded like Mr. Hall had made his decision while people were shouting, ya know? Maybe I missed something, help me out.

[Mighty Orbots]

Those are excellent points Judge. I see where you're comin from now, and I agree.

Dweezil looks to Kelly Garrett, his brow slightly furrowed

Ms. Garrett, you seem to be tryin real hard to stop us from questioning Ms. Fisher's decision and info here. Seein as she's the only one of us who knows anything, this strikes me as odd. Why are you doing this?

[Mighty Orbots]

The issue, Ms. Garrett, isn't Carrie's mental state, but rather her trustworthiness. I agree with Judge Ito that neither can be trusted. But even if Carrie can't be trusted, we should still hear her out, if only to look back on what she said later. I'm not understanding why you disagree with this.

Anyway, then, what to decide? I was thinkin at first we should pick Door 2 since that's what the math geeks on TV said. But Carrie's not going with this and wants Door 1 instead. I think this is a ruse to get us to pick the wrong door. If I was gonna pick now, I'd pick Door 1. It sounds kinda insane, but that's why it'll work.

What about everyone else? If you had to pick right now, which would you go with, and why?

[Mighty Orbots]

Kelly Garrett's "Dweebzil" shot earns her a glare before Dweezil speaks again

Seems we're still in the same boat, so I'm still in the same place. I figure this is just a way to make us pick Door 2, so I'm sticking with Door 1. Unless someone's got a better reason to pick Door 2?

[Mighty Orbots]

Clarence, given everything that has happened both yesterday and today, there is nothing to make me believe that Carrie has our best interests at heart.

Dweezil folds his arms

As I've said before, I don't find you very trustworthy either, and your waffling on this issue has helped confirmed my suspicions.

Given what I posted earlier, and your desire to choose Door 2, I will make my choice official.

vote: Door 1

[Mighty Orbots]

Mr. Odbody, I've already explained my reasoning. You can question that if you want. Regarding waiting, it didn't work that way yesterday, plus Ms. Fisher has already told us to stop waiting for information that isn't coming. I'm not sure why you're attempting to stall us.

Ms. Garrett, I'd really prefer you gave a reason instead of just flipped a coin. Just for posterity.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil looks disracted for a minute, not like his old self at all. He seems to be focused on something in the distance rather than anything in the here an now. When he speaks it's in a reflective tone as though he's talking to himself or people who aren't there at all.

You know, it's funny but it occurs to me that although I usually get inspiration in the form of colored lights or animals or everyday objects.

Like when someone I know passes on for some reason I seem to think of birds out of no where. If it was someone with nothing but good intentions it's a pure white dove in flight. Those that meant to mislead give me visions of a crow sitting on a telephone wire.

Mind you, most of the time there's no way to know what someone's intentions were until long after they're gone and my visions don't help determine intention at all. All that I get then is the image of a generic bird in a nest.

With all the dead philosophers and angles and what not in the crowd here it'd almost be a surprise if we couldn't count on some visions or something to help us out here.

Dweezil seems to regain a bit of focus and remember where he is. When he speaks again it sounds much more as though he's in the here and now. He looks around and says:

Man, I don't know about the rest of you, but when we're done picking these doors I could sure go for some chicken. Who's up for dinner when we get out of here?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil looks surprised by the reactions from Carrie

Dude, Carrie, why the negativity? Even if you've been places the rest of us haven't you can't know what's happened there since you left. What harm is there in knowing what extra signs from the beyond might mean? Events that we know nothing of have to happen sometime and perhaps previously unexpected visions will give us insight into exactly what and when they are. You can't possibly object to more specific information can you?

Also I've gotten really hungry. Seriously, we're going to have to get something to eat soon.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil looks visibly annoyed

Wait, that's it? All we get is a button and no guidance on what to do with it? It's a total, random coinflip. Ugh.

It could be a bomb, and it would blow up in our faces or something.

a hand involuntarily rises to touch his cheek

We can't let that happen, this face is money.

Then again...

he looks at the box

... we could push it and it could be full of diamonds.

Dweezil folds his arms and frowns, staring at the button as if doing so might make it (safely) spill its secrets

Shit.

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm not really seeing the point of this, but whatever.

Carrie Fisher, played by Talilan
Huey Lewis, played by StarKiss
Valentine Wiggin, played by Panzerjager
Angel, played by Gaspar
Glen Stewart Godwin, played by Thok
Clarence Odbody, played by PookyTheMagicalBear
Dweezil Zappa, played by Mighty Orbots
Mr. Green, played by sottyrulez
Tabris, played by GoofballsAndBaloons

Mr. Godwin's advice is an invitation to WIFOM, and I'd prefer not to have any today, thanks. But I do want to talk a bit about something else I'm seeing.

Yesterday Ms. Fisher made an unexpected cameo which pushed several to make the wrong choice. To me the move was strikingly similar to the one made by a different Ms. Fisher a few days ago. The difference was that the ploy worked this time. Also I'm pretty convinced that the appearance was deliberate because of the content in the message.

Also yesterday, Mr. Lewis was the first to vote for the wrong choice, even before being given the green light. Then he completely disappeared into the background. I think the disappearance was intentional to avoid the barrage of questions he received after making his choice.

Now today we see them both advocating for the same choice yet again, right off the bat, even though there's no outside information for us and no reason to back one choice versus the other at this point. I'm having a hard time believing this is all coincidence.

[Mighty Orbots]

Take yours. Move Wiggin to the top. Now move Lewis to the top. Now move Fisher to the top.

Noobcakes.

[Mighty Orbots]

I think the Decepticons, down a member and a few points, were willing to take the risk.

At this point I'm not in favor of pushing the button.

[Mighty Orbots]

FemAngel, it makes sense that you want to hold people accountable, but that's really vague. Who exactly do you feel should be held accountable? Who do you think was trying to manipulate things in favor of the bad guys?

[Mighty Orbots]

Godwin, you know as well as I do that we have to wait for the bat signal before we can make a choice. I'm not sure why you're trying to push people.

That said, they need to hurry up over there.

It's interesting that we started out with a bunch of people wanting to push the button, but now we've had some subtle shifting the other way. It's making me worry about my initial choice.

[Mighty Orbots]

That's really bad reasoning, Ms. Fisher. You're saying he's a Decepticon for advocating the correct choice - when he gave ample, logical reasoning for doing so? We also gave that reasoning when we were on break, are we scum too?

This seems like a really bad excuse to lead us astray. My good guy read of you has been shot to hell. Ugh.

vote: Push the button

[Mighty Orbots]

I was referring to Angel, Ms. Fisher. Sorry for the confusion. Please see his post 22 in isolation for more details.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil returns. Somehow he'd managed to procure a plate of chicken.

The bartender says the tequila here isn't bad. He wouldn't give a recommendation one way or the other one the rest though.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil coughs.

One way or the other on the rest, I mean.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil looks at Randy Jones in horror.

String me up? We're just orderin drinks for God's sake.

The bartender said the tequila isn't bad. If you want to try somethin else that's fine. It'd be like flippin a coin, or... pushin a button. I don't really see a reason not to listen to the bartender though.

[Mighty Orbots]

A drink...

says Dweezil, settling down on an empty barstool and selecting a chicken leg from his plate

... says a lot about a man. We've got plenty of time before that ship sails, so there's no reason to rush.

He takes a bite, being careful to avoid looking at Death, because, you know, maggots.

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm afraid I don't,

Dweezil says around a mouthful of chicken

because I didn't think I'd be here, so I didn't bring a laptop with me or anything. But this seems more like the time with the women in the church

he sucks some juice from a finger

then the time with the doors, yaknow?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil, who had fallen into a light doze on his barstool, is startled awake by Garrett's sudden hysterics. His elbow knocks the plate over, scattering chicken bones everywhere.

Whowhat? Oh. Yeah um, that might've happened yesterday actually. We'll know more when the boat comes in, I guess.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil peers at the bony finger, then at one of the scattered chicken bones. He shrugs

There's nothin terribly important about what I do, it just happens to fit well with who I am. Anyone else could do it and really, if they screwed up it'd be awfully visible.

His gaze goes towards the heavy drapery just off-camera.

Seems like there's a lot of movement back there, I wonder what's goin on.

[Mighty Orbots]

It's hard to know

he says, gazing off-camera

what's going on over there. It could be that there's been discussions on what's gone on and everybody's satisfied. Wouldn't make sense to fire like you said then, unless the guy just gets appointed again or somethin. Only other thing I see we could do is just wait right up till when we're supposed to board the boat and hope they've got it all figured out by then.

Dweezil worries at his teeth with a toothpick

I still could use that drink. Hey Death, who killed JFK?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil blinks.

Um.

Well, I mean, the great thing is that it's testable, isn't it? If we all order tequila and it's some generic off-brand stuff then you'll know that I lied. Seems a silly thing to lie over though.

Also remember, he didn't say it was good, just that it wasn't bad. So the vodka or the erm buttery nipple could be fantastic for all we know. If you feel like takin a chance then try one of the others. I'm stickin with the tequila myself.

[Mighty Orbots]

No really baby, my dad was super famous. ... What do you mean you've never heard of him? You've never heard of Frank Zappa? Who the hell has never heard of Frank Zappa? He was a musical genius. .... Oh yeah? Well, fine, whatever. You've got nothin on Lisa Loeb anyway.

Dweezil sighs as the waitress wanders away and checks his watch

Aaaaany day now...

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm not skirting anything. I'm just not passing judgement until I see what's been said. And I kinda have to be comfortable about leaving it up to those offstage don't I? What a weird question.

[Mighty Orbots]

Nothing I say should have any bearing on their decision, no. Why should it? Another weird question.

Also, we haven't had 100 pages of discussion about why the casting was done as it was. That decision happened today. So no, I'm not going to condemn the guy since I haven't heard his side of the story yet.

[Mighty Orbots]

Hell yes, let's get out of here.

vote: tequila

[Mighty Orbots]

Erm. The point of stunting would just be to confirm that we're supposed to get on with our choice, right? Because I don't see any other possible benefit.

[Mighty Orbots]

Green (sotty) did, yes. He's suggesting we'll get some insight on what's gone on elsewhere, though I'm not sure what.

sotty, what else would you be looking for?

[Mighty Orbots]

It's up to you, Death. If you want to stunt him in then go ahead. Personally the only point I agree with is the 1st though.

[Mighty Orbots]

The first, I agree with.

You've already addressed the second.

The third is shades of Carrie Fisher and the church debacle. Those elsewhere had the same information as those in the church but came to a bad conclusion. Their bad conclusion got leaked here. Also there's even less to discuss this time around I'm not sure what we could possibly have missed.

Death staying put accomplishes your fourth point without the extra paperwork, and as Death mentioned earlier, it keeps a certain individual safe.

So yeah, just the first, but even then we got the exact signal we asked for so I'm not really seeing why this is necessary. It's Death's to use though, I'll leave it up to him.

[Mighty Orbots]

Hurrah.

So, Death. How are things then?

[Mighty Orbots]

Hallelujah.

Let's talk more on the way to the boat, Randy.

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm with Carrie. I don't know math, it hurts my head.

I think the only problem with your thing there Death is that we have to give at least 5 numbers, we can't ask just one.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil observes the numbers fly by his head, like so many buzzing insects. He plucks one from the air, studies it, admires its beauty while understanding none of its significance, then releases it to join its fellows. They dance in chaotic rhythm around him, spinning, gleaming, reflecting a purity in form and function. Soon though the numbers become interwoven with letters, invader c's and k's that have infiltrated the swarming sea of pristine numbers, dimming their incandescence. The gates opened, the letters are followed by words, evil heavy words: sets and statistics, Bayesians and percentages, that clunk and clang and flounder amongst the numbers and foul their dance. A desperation ensues as the numbers dart and twitch and weave in panic, before the entire tapestry shatters and falls to the floor around Dweezil's feet.

He blinks.

A list? Sure.

Me
Kelly (ShadowLurker)
DEATH (Talilan)
Carrie (VP Baltar)
Tabris (Goofballsandbaloons )
Godwin (Thok)
Count Morcerf (hewitt)

Though I think Tabris offered to go last right?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil, who had apparently slipped away earlier, reappears with another plate of chicken

I like this plan because it doesn't involve lots of screwy math. The simpler the better I think.

[Mighty Orbots]

Papa Zito seems to have slipped away from the site momentarily so this is Zorblag posting here to avoid strikes. I have been following the game and I won't be letting this player spot strike out but ideally this won't be an issue. Hopefully this is the last you'll hear from this side of Dweezil Zappa but if it gets to be time for me to ask a question and I haven't heard anything from Papa Zito I'll be here to do so in a timely manner.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil scratches his head.

Okay wait. Let's sum up.

Two people have asked stuff, and none of those numbers were very good. We think.

What's the chance that's actually true? Is that something that's worth checking? This is statistics, I don't do those.

If it is true then shouldn't we keep building off that list like before?

I can make a new order if you guys want. I'm guessing I wouldn't include anything that was already asked? Or I can just go last. Or whatever.

I don't think we should start making little changes to the list as we go along though. That makes me nervous. Let's either keep to it or change it completely.

[Mighty Orbots]

I think I see where you're coming from Kelly. Now that we've got the ball rolling here the bad guys what chase us with guns have much less of a chance of influencing things. But that's not true elsewhere.

We have a problem now though. The commissioner can only use the bat signal twice, and we need to save one for when everything's done. So there's no way for them to signal when it's okay for the switch to happen.

I guess what we could do is wait for a new signal, something other than a green traffic light ... it's amazing what bat signals can do these days ... and then just sit tight until the end of the cruise before we make our pick. That'll give you plenty of time to figure out what's been going on and if it makes any sense.

[Mighty Orbots]

So far, we've had this.

Kelly (SL): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51} = no
Carrie (VP): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 18, 52, 37, 69} = no
Death (Tal): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 63, 47, 66, 20, 34, 5, 56, 41} = yes
Tabris (GaB): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 63, 47, 66, 20} = no

So not three in a row.

To make sure I'm following this... If all this stuff is true, then our Very Good is one of 34, 5, 56, 41, right?

[Mighty Orbots]

Hang on, let me make sure I've got the procedure right. Based on the above, right now we know (at least) one of {34, 5, 56, 41} is a Very Good.

So Godwin (Thok) is going to ask about {34, 5} the first two numbers in that group.

If the answer comes back yes, then Morcerf (hewitt) is going to ask about 34, and we'll have our answer. Then I can ask something to validate all that.

If the answer comes back no, then Morcerf (hewitt) asks about 56, and we'll have our answer. Then I ask our validation question.

Have I got this right?

[Mighty Orbots]

Cool, I'm actually following this mess.

While we're waiting... One thing I'm not clear on is how I'm supposed to validate these things. Would I just ask the final answer again and see if I got the same thing?

[Mighty Orbots]

Erm. What part are we running by then? Did I miss something? (Likely)

[Mighty Orbots]

Bwahahahahahah. That picture is gold. I thought they'd somehow managed to lynch two people at once.

Yeah, I'm around. Also, epic vote.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil begins juggling four of the ping pong balls while humming the Cops theme

[Mighty Orbots]

Fantastic. We're almost done with this.

So, to verify: I'm asking if {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 41} contains a Very Good, right? And we're expecting a yes answer.

[Mighty Orbots]

I have to admit that this has all felt a little too easy.

Let me ask it this way, and the math nerds can all chime in - what's the check that'll net us the most Decepticons if somehow this whole thing goes south?

[Mighty Orbots]

Also we only have like 36 hours before we dock, so we need to figure this out quickly.

[Mighty Orbots]

Eh. I'm more iffy on Tabris (GaB) than I am on Death (Talilan), personally. The only thing that would make me want to recheck Death is that Death's result is what put us on this path.

Just to keep this updated:

Kelly (SL): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51} = no
Carrie (VP): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 18, 52, 37, 69} = no
Death (Tal): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 63, 47, 66, 20, 34, 5, 56, 41} = yes
Tabris (GaB): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 63, 47, 66, 20} = no
Godwin (Thok): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 34, 5} = no
Morcerf (hewitt): {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 56} = no

[Mighty Orbots]

So the idea is that I check {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 56} and I should get a no, just as hewitt did. I'm still thinking it might help more if I back up another step but I'm not about to attempt all the math that's involved there so I'm okay with this too.

[Mighty Orbots]

Sending {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 56} now.

[Mighty Orbots]

No word yet. I'll check back in an hour.

[Mighty Orbots]

zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mighty Orbots]

Is there a Very Good in {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 56}? - No

Okay then.

vote: 41

[Mighty Orbots]

Dweezil trudges up the beach, then collapses on the sand.

Could this day get any worse?

[Mighty Orbots]

Arrite, read through this. My list stands at:

Talilan
hewitt
Starkiss
Thesp
zu_faul
VP Baltar

I want people to give reasons drawn from the whole game for why others are scum, not just drawn from the events most fresh in one's memory (which would be easiest for scum to manipulate, as they were edging closer to end-game).

Convenient.

Let me make sure I have this straight. You want us to believe that putting two scum offstage with the most pro-town player in the game, leading to a quicklynch, leading to the worst possible scenario was all a coincidence. Right? And it's also a coincidence that GaB didn't fire you, preventing that scenario from happening, right?

I have a long-standing case on hewitt. He refused to vote KY Krew even though he said he would, instead staying on Panzer. Later, after calling for Pooky's lynch time and again, he softened his tone (from "scum" to "wildcard") and when presented the opportunity to wagon Pooky instead hammered Gaspar. His only interaction with GaB was to answer questions and act irritated. And I invite you all to find him mention Thok anywhere.

Starkiss' post is bad, I agree. And they've been pretty useless all game.

Rather like Thesp.

I'm going to come out and say I'm assuming zu_faul is the AP here because I'm sick of dancing around the issue. That's the only reason I have him this high though.

VP has played a pretty solid game.

So yeah. I have way too many possible candidates and we're in a damn 2:5 vanilla setup. Way to go town. Jesus.

[Mighty Orbots]

I'll leave out the acronym.

DGB was generally more trusted than us... we would have left her out of it.

I disagree here. You were, until recently, more trustworthy in my eyes. I'd have to go mine the thread and see if this is true of the rest of the living.

[1]Most likely we would have left ourselves offstage with Thok and a townie who couldn't run away by stunting. [2]If we were scum AD and could organise to lynch whoever we liked, it would not have been SL who had zero chance of being the AP.

1. This is irrelevant. The quicklynch prevented stunting from being an option.
2. As I said, I don't think anyone suspected SL of anything, making him just as good as the AP really.

Also, looking at it numerically. We knew the setup would be 5 innocent, 2 scum for a while. Obviously there were 4 scum left at the start of Day 7, making two of them expendable (since two were destined to die regardless). So what better way to use them than to quicklynch a really townie player and guarantee their best possible endgame at the same time?

We should keep the choices under wraps to not give info to scum, but I'll explain my reasoning tomorrow.

:/

[Mighty Orbots]

Blarg. I don't like the road you're trying to take me down.

Let me ask you something else more concrete then.

My own nominations are:
Hewitt
zu_Faul
StarKiss

Before anyone else says their piece, I wanna get it on the table that I feel Thesp and Mighty Orbots are most likely to be scum

Explain what happened here. All three still live but you suddenly want to lynch Thesp or myself more. Why? You listed those three and none of them ended up offstage. Why?

[Mighty Orbots]

I understand that keeping up in this game is a beast (which is part of why I'm struggling to enjoy this game, to be honest), but we cannot afford any let-up here. Same goes for hewitt - you'd better be crazy-active soon. It seems like the same few people have been posting the most lately, and it cannot remain that way.

I agree with this much at least. I need to see something of substance from hewitt, zu_faul and VP soon. Especially hewitt.

[Mighty Orbots]

Claim: Assistant Producer.

Before we do anything else, hewitt do you counter?

[Mighty Orbots]

There was nothing obvtown about Panzer or zu_Faul. We still need to know if hewitt will counter. This is extremely important.

I guess we'll have to treat Talilan as two separate players. Ortolan, can you please give your thoughts about who was left behind last scene? Talitha has given hers.

Just a quick note to confirm that I'm not the Assistant Producer. (I'm guessing VP Baltar isn't based on his post.)

Sigh.

[Mighty Orbots]

Deadline is next week, correct?

Next Saturday, December 12th.

---

Add lurking to the hewitt case.

[Mighty Orbots]

Oh look someone's actually playing this game.

@zu_faul: Unless and until hewitt counters, you are confirmed town. Congrats.
VP has just posted a ton of stuff ^^ there. What is your take on all this?

@Thesp: Opinions on things that didn't happen Scene 1 plz?

@StarKiss: Post a case on somebody. Anybody.

@hewitt: Post or die.

I'm going to rejoin my conversation with Talilan tomorrow if hewitt doesn't post.

[Mighty Orbots]

First off, great misrepresentation of my conduct regarding the KY lynch. Go reread that day and then come back and restate my actions that day. That was fucking despicable MO.

No. Here is what you said.

I'm going to pretend like Goofballs post also applies to me considering I didn't vote KY Krew either and it looks like a cross post. The answer for me would be that I'm going to nail them once they get Off-Camera but for now I'd like to focus some discussion on those currently Off-Camera. Because God knows we're going to get quite a lot of discussion about KY Krew once they get Off-Camera.

Here you say you're going to "nail" them when they get off-camera. By "nail" I'm assuming you mean wagon.

FML

Vote: Panzerjager, [Gaspar, Talilan], TheBladeMufasa, StarKiss, [Bagel Eating Cowfrog, GoofballsAndBaloons, Thesp], sottyrulez, No Lynch, hewitt

And here you vote for Panzer. (Panzer is bolded but I can't bold it because of house rules)

Then you disappear. Talilan stunts with KY Krew. Several people vote him, he's lynched. As VP said:

And I obviously agree with the KY Krew lynch so yeah that was good.

Good thing you parked your vote on Panzer and were away for the main event then.

... which I agree with wholeheartedly. So no, sorry, no misrep here.

In regards to Pooky I made it quite clear that I wanted Pooky lynched for quite a while. But nobody seemed to think that was a good idea and I was pretty much largely ignored for a Gaspar lynch. I didn't like Gaspar and I was quite okay with his lynch so I hammered.

Yes indeed, you repeated multiple times that you wanted Pooky dead. Can you link me to where you posted a case and actually pushed for his lynch?

I disliked Goofballs play a lot and I'm pretty sure I called him out quite a bit.

Yes, your pattern for Pooky holds true here as well. Except you never voted GnB.

I have no thoughts on Thok, he's like the most anonymous player in this game to me.

So you agree with my statement then.

[Mighty Orbots]

1. It is not irrelevant. Organised quick-lynches involve both luck and organisation. There was no guarantee going into that scene that SL would be lynched. I betcha he would've stunted if he had time after seeing the first vote. If his stunt request PM was timestamped before Thok's vote, he woulda been safe and two scum would've been exposed.

I thought the KY Krew business Scene 1 pretty much established that scum can daytalk.

2. A) You're kidding right? NO-ONE is as good as a non-counter-claimed AP. B) There was some suspicion of him. Most notably Gaspar.

Close enough. And Gaspar was dead, so.

We were less trusted than DGB on-stage IIRC, and she would additionally look good the way she'd attacked Thok throughout the game and was turning on us at the time we did it.

You've said this a couple times. What support do you have?

Why the hell would scum sacrifice two of themselves for the end-game, and additionally have the scum in the AP role look really bad?

There were 4 alive in Scene 7, that is now obvious. They can only take 2 into endgame. They know that a townie lynch wins them their best endgame. So their choice is to either play standard mafia and hope for a townie lynch, or arrange one.

Regarding making your role look bad? There's a risk/reward to every decision. I'm guessing they decided that achieving the best end-game scenario for themselves was the most important thing.

This is besides the fact I think it's downright dumb to suggest we are likely to be scum with Thok- we were on his case throughout the game,

So was DGB.

And contrary to what PZ says, the point about looking at the "totality of the game" is very, very valid.

This, actually, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying not to look at the last couple scenes, since until then your record was spotless.

What would people have objected to, at the time, about leaving DGB/Thok/Shadowlurker off-stage?

Here's where I'm really lost now.

oh and zu_Faul was obv the AP.

So why wouldn't you have left him offstage to lynch your scum candidate? If zu_Faul was "obv the AP" that means zu_Faul is guaranteed town.

[Mighty Orbots]

Anything in particular that strikes your fancy? My opinions are based more than on Scene 1, but I thought that was worth exploring.

You're voting Starkiss. Post a case. Show me why Starkiss is worse than me and hewitt. Show me why hewitt and I are worse than Talilan and VP Baltar.

Let me give you the rundown in the notes I'm showing by player (re: onstage decisions, Scenes 5-7 are excluded for their utter uselessness, probably could have excluded Scene 1 as well):

Argh. All info, no analysis. Why is scene 6 utterly useless? How did you interpret these things?

Does anyone have any thoughts why the scum would not kill the obv-AP Zu Faul? It really bugs the hell out of me and I cannot figure out why they would not do it.

I have no idea.

[Mighty Orbots]

There was still no

guarantee

. Some people have jobs... some live in different timezones.

Well. Given the votes came at the same minute, I'd say it wasn't an issue.

Exactly. Dead AND confirmed innocent. And has one of the best scum-hunting reputations on the site. Therefore I didn't take his opinions lightly and didn't expect others to either.

I don't know his reputation, but a townie is a townie is a townie. He wasn't a cop with innocents and guilties.

Ugh, fading fast.

You were there onstage in the recent boat scene when we ranked everyone. DGB was more trusted.

Actually:

Compiling the lists into a mixed thing. 7=most town, 1=least town. Goofballs listed SL and VP Baltar as a tie, so they get a 3.5. Similarly the 5.5 from a Talilan tie.

Hewitt 1+1+1+4+7+2+1=17
Thok 3+2+2+7+2+1+3=20
Goofballs 4+7+3+1+1+5.5+2=23.5
Talilan 2+5+5+2+5+7+4=30
Vp Baltar 7+3.5+4+3+6+5.5+5=34
Might Orbots 5+6+7+5+3+3+6=35
ShadowLurker 6+3.5+6+6+4+4+7=36.5

You're listed higher.

Ugh. Hang on, I'll try to do another post.

[Mighty Orbots]

Maybe. I think it was around that time that MO lost half of his hydra. Have we heard what caused that yet?

Severe playstyle clash.

Mighty Orbots, again the question, why did you just reask hewitt's question than validating number 41?

Again, I was going to validate 41.

So, to verify: I'm asking if {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 41} contains a Very Good, right? And we're expecting a yes answer.

I don't like that Thesp is parroting this.

Speaking of which...

I know at some point I'm going to need to shift from the "stating one's own opinion's phase" to the "convince everyone else that I'm likely correct" phase, I'm just not sure it's this moment.

So you're just going to keep saying I'm antitown/scummy but not say why and give me a chance to defend myself. Thanks Thesp, that's helpful. Though not unique to yourself.

So, yeah, hewitt and Starkiss one and two, then we'll see where we are from there. If we use a mislynch, so be it. This is the best strategy we can go with in my opinion.

This is probably true. I'm willing to go along with this plan.

I have to go to bed.

[Mighty Orbots]

This is interesting. If you're going to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first so I can sit back and watch/laugh at the rest of this game.

Sigh.

vote: hewitt

[Mighty Orbots]

MO, [StarKiss], Talilan, do two things asap:

Vote (concordet).

Give a reason why you haven't done already.

I already have voted. Condorcets are ridiculous. I said that at the very beginning.

Meanwhile, the off-camera crew is busy lynching people. I'm guessing this functions like a regular mafia game. That weird voting system (which I think we should avoid, really) comes into play here.

My list:

hewitt
Talilan
[StarKiss, Thesp]
VP Baltar
zu_Faul

[Mighty Orbots]

hewitt's town. Lynch StarKiss/Thesp instead please.

wat

I don't see how hewitt's town. At all.

[Mighty Orbots]

If you're willing to provide a list, why are you avoiding an honest-to-goodness Condorcet vote? (For the record, if this game approaches the deadline (which it is!), I fully expect you to put your vote in Condorcet form. If the day hits deadline and your failure to vote in Condorcet form results in a different lynch than it otherwise would, I will pursue a lynch against you.)

Condorcets are fail. Look at the Day 1 vote. How the hell can you analyze that with the Condorcet mess in the way?

There's seriously no reason why we can't just ignore the concept entirely and just outright vote like normal. I still maintain that Condorcets can be manipulated and shouldn't be used.

[Mighty Orbots]

I think straight voting works for every other game on this site just fine and work just as well here. I see no reason, at all, to add another variable into the mix.

The Condorcet BS muddies the D1 votecount for me. Maybe you're better at parsing it than I am.

[Mighty Orbots]

re:condorcets-they are useful MO, but we should still reach a majority before deadline. It makes every player accountable for their stances on the overall game and can show continuity of thought.

This is exactly what I was driving at.

Reading until the end of the thread is tech.

XD

my surprise at your refusal to actualize your stated full voting preferences

This is BS. I gave my full voting preferences.

Still awaiting Starkiss.

This.

[Mighty Orbots]

I can't see your refusal to use the concordet right now in a positive light at all. There is really no downside, there is just a strange feeling of yours if you are town or scummy motivation if you are not.

Insert rolly-eyed smiley here -->

This isn't worth arguing over.

{vote below, rulez}

Also, MO, why do you have VP Baltar in such high regards?

He's only done a couple really questionable things this game (Crone, vote check), and even those, when read in context, could have come from town. Others (the ones higher on my list) have done more (hewitt/StarKiss, Talilan last two days) with far worse justification. Today he's been practically a shining beacon of towniness.

Vote:

hewitt

, Talilan, [Starkiss, Thesp], VP Baltar, Mr. Grey, Mighty Orbots, no lynch, zu_faul

[Mighty Orbots]

He's an SK or something I swear.

[Mighty Orbots]

Talitha, Ortolan stated that zu_Faul was "obv" AP. Do you agree?

Question to both of you: When did you come to this conclusion?

Reading StarKiss' stuff now in depth.

[Mighty Orbots]

I don't like how StarKiss keeps trying to pair me and VP. I don't know what it means but it strikes me as strange.

But you still go along with it. Same with MO. You both just slid votes onto him after he said to lynch him. But that's hewitt's bad for giving you both justification to vote for him so nonchalantly.

This is blatant BS. I gave my justification for my vote earlier in the thread (1219, 1282), and VP did as well (1286). The timing of my vote came when it was blindingly obvious that hewitt wasn't going to participate.

(I'll note this here: StarKiss is the condorcet winner, looks like hewitt wins)

If anyone wants to go deep enough to pull meta into the argument, I've f*cked up as town quite a bit recently, so regardless of alignment I am not immune to making incorrect decisions. What I now have to think about is why people look at our voting records and think it has any unique/specific significance to my decision-making in this game and this game only, as opposed to how I play in any other instance.

This is coming from the self-proclaimed Jesus Kise?

Re: Thesp not wanting to send a sign onstage... Yes I thought it was worth noting after I it was revealed that maiden wouldn't have been a bad pick. Thesp didn't appear to put any effort into figuring out the puzzle himself, just wanted onstage to play it out.

Thoughts, Thesp? -- You as well, MO?

I don't see the significance of this.

No offense to anyone, but I think MO and VP can easily have psychological control over the others

This is the 3rd or 4th pairing. It's creepy.

---

Actually, question to VP: Let's say one of [hewitt, StarKiss] is lynched, and the lynchee flips town. You still willing to stick with the plan?

[Mighty Orbots]

you haven't demonstrated that the scum actually wanted to kill the AP yet - I think there are good reasons the scum

wouldn't

want to kill the AP.)

Happy birthday Thesp. I'm curious about this. What good reasons would the scum not want to off a confirmed town player prior to endgame?

[Mighty Orbots]

So as AP, zu_Faul is confirmed town, and lets suppose he's killed and a new AP is assigned, and is confirmed town as well. What if it's hewitt? Or StarKiss? Or Talilan? Or...you get the picture.

Where does it say that the replacement AP must be town?

[Mighty Orbots]

Which brings me to my next thought...it may be best if we determine Talilan's alignment now. There are a lot of "coincidences" with Tal's play that don't make sense from a town perspective.

I hate to change directions around deadline, but knowing their alignment would make me infinitely more confident about Starkiss and hewitt.

I don't know...I always second guess myself. I want other people's thoughts on a Talilan lynch and their bad directorial choices combined with the fact that DGB didn't fire them and take control of the game.

I'm not at all opposed to a Talilan lynch (obviously) but it's puzzling to see you consider one when you've got three people ahead of them on your condorcet.

Help me fill in the blanks.

Townilan: Starkiss = ?; hewitt = ?
Scumilan: Starkiss = ?; hewitt = ?

[Mighty Orbots]

Dude. VP.

Vote: Starkiss, hewitt, Thesp, Talilan, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch, [VP Baltar, zu faul]
Vote: Talilan, Starkiss, hewitt, Thesp, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]
Vote: Talilan, Thesp, hewitt, Starkiss, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]

These are your last three. I'm really confused. Why did Thesp go from 4 to 2? And Starkiss go from 1 to 4?

You're making me really nervous with all this.

[Mighty Orbots]

Upgraded to Windows 7 last night. woooo

I am happy 2 self-vote

@#$*(!@&#%*()!&@$#%

THIS GAME IS SAD FACE.

Currently, there is no lynch happening, which is VERY VERY BAD. Switching my vote between hewitt or StarKiss doesn't change things. The people who are voting me higher than hewitt are blocking hewitt's lynch. Those voting hewitt over Talilan appear to be blocking their lynch. The people who are voting hewitt AND Talilan over StarKiss are preventing their lynch (or one of each).

I don't see a way to change my vote without lynching Talilan, which I'm against. Something needs to move. If I absolutely have to, I will consider moving my vote, but I sure don't hope to have to.

Oh look, condorcet voting is fucking everything up. Imagine that.

VP Baltar, if you move StarKiss to the front, he's the new Condorcet winner.

RAGE.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

This is retarded. There's four scum in this endgame. Jesus.

UnVote:

hewitt

, Talilan, [Starkiss, Thesp], VP Baltar, Mr. Grey, Mighty Orbots, no lynch, zu_faul
Vote:

Talilan

, Thesp, hewitt, Starkiss, VP Baltar, Mr. Grey, Mighty Orbots, no lynch, zu_faul

[Mighty Orbots]

BECAUSE NO LYNCH IS SO MUCH MORE AWESOME I WANT SOME

I AM IN ALL CAPS RAGE STOP MOCKING ME.

If you do wind up town I'm going to poke you in the eye next time you're in Housotn.

But seriously, this BS wouldn't even be on the radar if we were just voting. It's bad enough that we have players quitting left and right but we can't even figure how to lynch someone.

And good ol' hewitt just had to post a little fit and disappear and oh look he's not really a lynch candidate anymore, that's just great.

[Mighty Orbots]

wait wat

[Mighty Orbots]

Oh I hate you all. Whatever. ...

[Mighty Orbots]

WAIT...did MO just hammer Talilan?

Apparently. I got so wrapped up in the condorcet nonsense I wasn't looking at the actual vote count.

[Mighty Orbots]

John Williams, Lima.

go go gadget hewitt

[Mighty Orbots]

What about the rest of your info there MO.

What, the flavor bits? I came to do music but wanted to try my hand at acting. I'm excited by the opportunity and I hope nothing goes wrong. (lol)

[Mighty Orbots]

You have a role name? <--also at Starkiss

? I already gave it.

Win condition is the same, yeah.

[Mighty Orbots]

That's not how popcorn works, Thesp. hewitt gets to pick.

[Mighty Orbots]

That's... well. Let's hear Thesp first before we start parsing this.

[Mighty Orbots]

Hey all, I apologize for not being around. Work has been bad lately and I'm kinda burned out on Mafia in general.

Anyway.

Two of our claims give me the heebie-jeebies. First VP has claimed the sample PM. Then Thesp acts like he has ULTIMATE SECRET KNOWLEDGE and it turns out he's just claiming what KY did.

hewitt, I gave plenty of reasons for why I wanted Talilan dead. Nice try attacking the wagon.

In fact, I want to hear a lot from MO, and pretty soon.

Hear what, Thesp?

[Mighty Orbots]

MO, you honestly think that if I was scum I would claim the sample PM?

I have no idea. It's awfully weird is all.

Who do you think is the better lynch out of hewitt and Starkiss today if we go that route?

hewitt is worse, but I won't cry over a Starkiss lynch either. My problem is that while they're both horribly scummy I can't really see them as scum together. I think Thesp is the partner of one of the two.

[Mighty Orbots]

Sigh.

I had to re-write this twice to take all the cursing out.

How likely do you think it is that someone would have a claim divergent from an actor/flavor?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Please restate.

Whatever you're thinking. More than anyone else left in the game, it's not immediately clear to me where you stand. You seem to be taking a variety of potshots at things, not commiting to things, and seeing how the wind blows. You make vague statements and don't seem to support them or put any weight behind them.

Wow. So I object to this pretty strongly, as I've done my damnedest to be as open as possible.

I'm pretty sure I laid out that I wanted Talilan dead most of all because I thought they architected our endgame and got a player that I at least considered obv-town quicklynched.

I'm pretty sure I wanted hewitt dead because of his hideous voting record and interactions with our four known scum members.

I'm pretty sure I've listed Starkiss next for being utterly useless all game.

I'm pretty sure I've listed you next for refusing to do any analysis of anything.

they're more likely to come from scum. Are you disturbed that someone's avoiding positing truse information from their role PMs? Are you disturbed by possible roles distributed by te moderator? It's not clear, and you don't seem to be making it clear.

I haven't drawn any conclusions Thesp. But I thought the whole point of a massclaim was to get these things into the open and talk about them.

...which is terribly important to me.

Why aren't they scum together?

I haven't seen any links between the two until yesterday.

I really want to know, because that's the way I'm leaning as a strong possibility.

Tell me why.

Moreover, you say hewitt and StarKiss are both bad, don't think they're scummy, and don't seem to be a strong proponent of lynching one over the other. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

You're wrong. You're horribly horribly wrong.

Maybe we're different personalities - endgames energize me. After all, this blasted game has been going on forever, and we're at a pretty crucial lynching point (as was yesterday). It worries me when others don't want to get this right, and the only one I feel convinced is that way is VP Baltar. (VP Baltar, if you're scum, can you please let us know so we can scoop and concede? Seriously, it's just cruel at this point otherwise.)

Yes I made mention that VP was playing like a townie should.

I'm burned out, Thesp. I need time off. It's hard for me to care much about anything right now.

Vote: [hewitt, Mighty Orbots, StarKiss], VP Baltar, [No Lynch, Thesp]

This is terrible. Who doesn't care which one gets lynched again?

[Mighty Orbots]

You seem uneasy about VP Baltar's claim. How likely do you think someone would have a claim something other than claiming an famous actor's name and appropriate flavor to that actor? (I ask because VP Baltar has claimed something other than a famous actor and appropriate flavor.) Do you think it's more likely scum would make up such a claim (or copy it from the sample PM), or that Mr. Grey would include such in the game?

I think you're missing what's giving me pause. I've never seen, in a game as heavily themed as this one, a player who was given the sample PM. Does that mean it can't happen? No. But it's odd enough that I felt like it should be noted.

Some of what you've alluded to (as have I) - they have terrible voting records, and I haven't seen much that implies they are town. I've seen someconflicted indications from you as being town, and I've seen plenty from VP Baltar. I've seen squat from hewitt, and only glimmers from StarKiss.

That's not what I meant. I'm asking what makes you think they're scum

together

. I can easily identify what makes them independently scummy, but I see precious little that shows them being part of a scum team.

Who would you prefer to lynch?

Hewitt. He and Starkiss have similar voting records, but I feel hewitt is worse because of his interactions with our flipped scum. To reiterate:

1. KY Krew - He made clear in thread that he wanted KY Krew dead, and when given the chance he voted Panzer instead.
2. Pooky - He said several times that he wanted to lynch Pooky, but changed his tune from "scum" to "wildcard" once presented the opportunity.
3. GnB - As with Pooky, several times he said he'd like to see GnB lynched, yet never voted them.
4. Thok - This may be the worst of the four - he never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

Starkiss is similar, but not quite as bad:

1. KY Krew - Condocet votes KY Krew #1
2. Pooky - Only lists Pooky at the bottom of a scumlist but no interaction
3. GnB - Seems to be some light scumhunting/questioning, but that's about it.
4. Thok - Same as hewitt - never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm with you - at the same time, I've seen little of pairings between

any

of our remaining people (which is odd to me because it's my favorite way to scumhunt, and it feels stunted in this game), besides the possible you with hewitt-or-StarKiss pairing based largely on the turbo-lynch from yesterday. I didn't know if you'd seen something particular that made you think they

aren't

scum together, which are also things I look for and hadn't seen.

The only real concrete thing I can point to is hewitt's bizarre defense of Starkiss from yesterday.

I don't care that you think my reasons for thinking Starkiss being town is pretty awful because any scum player would say that in order to discredit my opinion. The scum have done a pretty great job of discrediting anything Starkiss and myself say in Endgame, ensuring that we will be lynched no matter what.

I have a hard time believing scum would openly defend each other in this setup.

[Mighty Orbots]

HADOUKEN UPDATE

hewitt

KY Krew

- Was on-screen Scene 1
- Iso 8: Calls out KY for staying silent when called upon to participate
- Iso 10: States he will "nail [KY Krew] when they get Off-Camera"
- Iso 13: Votes Panzer
- Iso 14: Agrees with a KY lynch

This is really interesting. Hewitt stays remarkably quiet on the KY issue, basically just saying that he'll deal with KY once KY is stunted back in. But when this happens, he doesn't question KY and doesn't even vote him. Instead he stays on Panzer. This really looks like deflection to me.

Rawr/Pooky

- 0 mention of Rawr.
- Iso 41: Says he's tired of Pooky not doing anything
- Iso 60: Wants Pooky off-stage to lynch him
- Iso 64: Pooky is high on his scum list
- Iso 77: Moar Pooky lynching
- Iso 94: Votes Pooky
- Iso 96: Pooky's wagon isn't going anywhere, but he can't live to endgame
- Several Pooky can't live, is a wild card posts.

Hewitt was anti-Pooky the entire time. What's kinda odd is that he changes his stance on his is 94 vote post from "Pooky is scum" to "Pooky is a wildcard". Also I don't see him trying to convince the town to lynch Pooky, he just repeats that Pooky needs to be lynched over and over. Ironically, when given the chance, he instead hammers Gaspar.

GoofballsAndBaloons

- Iso 9: Condorcet votes GnB 5th
- Iso 11: Condorcet votes GnB 5th
- Iso 13: Condorcet votes GnB 5th
- Iso 98: Accuses GnB of trying to distract from the Gaspar lynch.
- Iso 108: Says GnB's defense of of a Pooky modkill is scummy

There are some other posts where he answers posts from GnB, but nothing else regarding alignment.

Thok

Nothing, whatsoever.

StarKiss (Starbuck/Kise/dramonic)

KY Krew

- Was on-camera Scene 1
- Iso 6: Believes KY is 3rd party
- Iso 10: Condorcet votes KY #1

Very sparse. I'm not thrilled about the 3rd party speculation.

Rawr/Pooky

- 0 mention of Rawr Hydra.
- Iso 39: Lists Pooky towards the bottom of a scumlist
- Iso 52: Pooky seems to have vanished.

The lack of anything regarding Pooky seems deliberate. He mentioned a couple times that they should wait for Pooky to chime in on something, but never condemned him for not participating and also never addressed him directly. It looks especially bad combined with the lack of KY postings.

GoofballsAndBaloons

- Iso 4: Accuses GnB of being contradictory
- Iso 43: Accuses GnB of not being active? I don't understand this post.

As prolific a poster as GnB was in this game, this is all we have. Amazing.

Thok

Nothing, whatsoever

Thesp

KY Krew

- Was on-camera Scene 1
- Iso 4: KY is definitely scum
- Iso 7: Condorcet votes KY
- Iso 12: Votes KY Krew

Not a lot here, but he was on the wagon, so.

Rawr/Pooky

- 0 mention Rawr Hydra
- Iso 33: is "uncomfortable" with Pooky's posts
- Iso 52: Doesn't like Pooky's voting record
- Iso 53: Pooky needs to die

Again, not a lot here.

GoofballsAndBaloons

- Iso 7: Condorcet votes GnB 6th
- Iso 53: Says GnB should die for being wrong the last two scenes

There are a few posts where Thesp agrees with GnB's posts, and a couple where he throws questions at them, but that's it.

Thok

- Iso 58: Has a hard time finding Thok scummy

That's literally it.

VP Baltar, replacing ThebladethatkilledMufasa S2

KY Krew

- Mufblade Iso 7: Listed KY as scum in scumlist
- Mufblade Iso 9: Didn't like KY's actions
- VP Baltar Iso 1: KY Krew is scum (duh)
- VP Baltar Iso 3: Condorcet votes KY #1
- VP Baltar Iso 8: Wants to extract info from KY
- VP Balar Iso 12: Votes KY Krew

All good here. Even the Mufblade part. Wow.

Rawr/Pooky

- No mention of Rawr Hydra by Mufblade
- No mention of Rawr Hydra by VP Baltar (replaced already?)
- VP Baltar Iso 54: Neutral Pooky read
- VP Baltar Iso 65: Pooky posts garbage everywhere!
- VP Baltar Iso 120: Pooky in neutral category
- VP Baltar Iso 126: Dislikes Pooky's on-camera choices but likes his Gaspar attacks
- VP Baltar Iso 133: Pooky is unreadable and unhelpful

I'm really not sure what to think of this. Continually listing Pooky as neutral, without trying to do anything to shift him one way or another, isn't good. However I did see him agreeing with Pooky's points in a couple of spots.

GoofballsAndBaloons

- Mufblade Iso 7: Lists GnB towards the top (town) of a scumlist
- Iso 33: GnB is town
- Iso 54: GnB is town
- Iso 56: Accuses GnB of "looking busy"
- Iso 82: Is definitely against a GnB lynch
- Iso 120: GnB listed nuetral (?)
- Iso 126: GnB nuetral for being non-commital
- Iso 146: Suspicious of GnB for being friendly with Pooky
- Iso 150: Says GnB is townish (?)

I understand the move from town to nuetral, but I don't get the move back to town territory.

Thok

- No mention of Thok by Mufblade
- Iso 47: Bit of a defense of Thok re: scumlist posting
- Iso 54: Wouldn't mind a Thok lynch; disliking playstyle
- Iso 82: Thinks Thok should be dead
- Iso 120: Lists Thok in his list of "People who I think need to be lynched"
- Iso 150: Thok is townish (??)

[Mighty Orbots]

@hewitt: What was your opinion of GnB/Thok in Scene 7?
@Starkiss: The same.
@Thesp: Why didn't you push for a GnB lynch?
@VP: Please explain why GnB and Thok regained town status Iso 150.

[Mighty Orbots]

Troll gives warm greetings to all in the thread.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Vote: hewitt