Seemingly Normal Mafia (Over)

[Toon Fighter]

Hey! nice of you, starting with random votes alredy

I will wait for the cutscene, and for someone to appear scummy.

[Toon Fighter]

That was weird, Richard. You just voted for magnus for him being in a bandwagon, and after TheLonging said that you said you were V/LA. Coincidence? I think not.

FoS: RichardGHP

magnus_orion also feels scummy, but not much. I believe that post 40 by Primate had some reason behind it, based on his role, but that theory is unconfirmable right now.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Anon: OMGUS

vote: Anon

[Toon Fighter]

He voted me for being too careful stating my suspicions. I show a suspicion on him and BAM! the whole village falls right on me.

I knew this was going to happen the minute I posted... damn

[Toon Fighter]

This is going bad on my side...

I admit it, my vote was somewhat a random vote, and had really not much of a reason behind it. I am still newbie (3rd game), and I hope I don't get lynched because of this -.- that would make 2nd game in a row lynched D1...

unvote

[Toon Fighter]

Vote: Magnus

For the sole reason of getting rival bandwagons going.

will do the same, as it seems the most likely thing to keep me alive for today:

vote: magnus

and yeah, I did vote prety much out of impulse, and, although I did expect somebody to notice that and attack me, I didn't think it would get so far in such short time.

I haven't been reading too much out of the game, too. I will reread it sometime during the week, as I have an exam tomorrow, and will have more time later.

[Toon Fighter]

somebody asked about the other game I was lynched D1 as townie:
viewtopic.php?t=13008&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 (newbie 885. the game hasn't ended yet)

[Toon Fighter]

Hey, I'm still here.

Looking at my own townie role, and magnus turned up townie, and no kill, I would guess that there is no scum and that is what's different. But that's just my speculation on setup.

I have alredy defended myself yesterday, and until new reasons to attack me pop up, I won't post more about them.

[Toon Fighter]

FoS...because the best scum play is to post the most easily countered reason for a vote I can find, yeah? Obviously missed the post.

However, the no-mafia speculation is interesting. Toon, what does your role PM indicate town must do to win the game?

I win when all threats to town have been eliminated

[Toon Fighter]

Unvote: Toon

Presumably if there were no scum we'd have already won the game. Calling town a threat to itself would be the height of irritating bastard moddery.

I've never played in a no-scum game before, but making it auto-win for the town on Day 2 would be stupid beyond belief. My guess is, if there IS no scum in the game, the game will run until only three people are left.

No-Kill could be just a coincidence. Think of all the possibilities... scum or vigilante could've been roleblocked or decided not to kill, there could be a yakuza, or maybe the mod is just bastardly enough to ignore scum's kill(s). We don't know, and unless anybody claims mafia with information, a better assessment can be made tomorrow.

Vote: Kyle99

for ignoring questions and anti-town lurking. His only contribution the whole game has been opportunistic votes.

You

do

know that avoiding questions, lurking and oppurtunistic voting make up Kyle's meta, right? You're going to have to do better than that.

None of those are necessarily scumtells either. Lurking is not a nulltell, avoiding questions CAN be a scumtell and oppurtunistic voting is generally a noobtown-tell. Which brings me to another point:

"

A scumtell, for reference, is something scum have more motivation to do than town.

"

By definition, even if a player displayed every single scumtell known, they COULD still be town, since town have SOME motivation to do the same actions/say the same things. The logical definition should be:

"A scumtell, for reference, is something town have absolutely no motivation to do."

Since town have SOME motivation to bandwagon/lurk/ignore questions/claim scum (seriously, I've seen town fakeclaim scum before. ), none of those automatically make somebody scum. Not really liking your vote where it's at right now.

He may be town, but even if he is, why are you defending him so much? You try to block and answer pointed at him, and that, in my eyes, is scummy.

Vote: Richard

Or, ther is also the possibility that you are a cop and investigated him... But if you had done that, you would likely wait a few more hours, at least, for him to defend himself, and post something like this as a last resort.

[Toon Fighter]

Toon, what do you hope to accomplish by calling Richard the cop? Are you expecting him to "yes/no" to that, or... if you really do feel he's cop, why the heck are you voting for him?

I didn't call him cop... I said that what he did only had two explanations: either he is scum with Kyle, or he is cop. I also said that it was more likely for him to be scum than to be cop. I don't feel he is the cop, I feel he is scum with Kyle, and that is why I voted for him

[Toon Fighter]

@ Fate: if you prefer the dana wagon, why did you jump to this one?

I will also

vote: Nul

[Toon Fighter]

Lynching toon is better. He's scummy and lurking,

and

has connections to other players that can actually tell us something. If he flips scum, I give farside and seacore greater chances of being scum.

There's no reason to pick nul or bv310 over him. And dana is scummy in all his games.

In what posts do I have connections to them? You have claimed that for a couple of days, but I havn't seen any examples

Also, I am starting to suspect dana. I recognise that all the pressuer on him might make him do newbie/scummy things even if he is town, but I still waht answers from him.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Primate: why would I be the best lynch option for today?

[Toon Fighter]

Seeing as we are reaching Deadline and Nul doesn't show up I change my vote.

unvote, vote: dana

[Toon Fighter]

The win condition for town is to eliminate threats (paraphrased).

Threats, yes, but not just any threats. How can something be a threat to itself? since there is no direct quoting, I hope people get what I'm saying. If TF was town, he would know that there were non-townies. Congrats, you just convinced me that

vote: Toon Fighter

is the best thing to do. Seacore can wait for later. TF has become obvscum. Anon, the points you're trying to make make no sense.

Yours makes less sense -.- You seem to be making confusion with the exact same thing farside was, and this post makes no sense. You just seem to be pushing for my lynch, and seem preocupied that the day is almost over and I didn't got lynched yet. YOU sir, are the obvscum here, and not me.

@DocPotter: I was on the verge of being eliminated, and I thought my best option was to push the lynch onto the other suspect (who was more than 0% chance to be scum, as I knew my own role). I was trying to deflect the votes onto him rather than me.

[Toon Fighter]

what the heck,

unvote, vote: Fate

will trust you guys on this. I don't want no-lynch, and I hope we hit scum this time

[Toon Fighter]

Am still here, will read the topic and post tomorrow

[Toon Fighter]

@raider: just because this game isnt my first, doesnt mean Im not new. I only played a couple games, and I am getting experience on this site

I didnt have much time on sunday, and I could only post today.

@jb: I agree that if the first two lynches were town, scum are likely to be there. I look onto that and post my thoghts soon

@ the lovers issue: If they were lovers, they would protect each other, obv. I don't buy that theory.

[Toon Fighter]

I just thought, after I saw your post, maybe the seemingly normal refers to role revelation on death. This really has no basis, but it could be true. Maybe every mafia is a reverse miller on death (they show up innocent), maybe the role names revealed on death are not their real roles. Notice how we did not see the dead players MP's. The mod only revealed the role names, who knows what thy could do. We just assumed the doctors could heal/protect, and so on.

Now, this doesn't make sense with that guy who was lynched D1 (at L-3) and came up as hateful townie. That role name seems to suggest he did require less votes to be lynched, and he was lynched with less votes. So, back to square one.

[Toon Fighter]

vote Doc Potter

He has been in all mislynches so far, and he has always managed to deflect suspicion from himself.

[Toon Fighter]

Well, you had votes on you in the previous days, but you managed to get somebody else lynched (although the same could be said about me...)

But that was a poor response to two votes on you. Try and defend yourself better

[Toon Fighter]

unvote

I won't vote for now, want to know what Kise & Kyle have to say. But I think the best strategy right now is to lynch one of them, and if he turns guilty, lynch the other.

[Toon Fighter]

will vote Kyle, but will wait for Primate's results first. We don't wanna be to hasty on the lynch now.

[Toon Fighter]

You know, I started wondering... What if Primate is scum and is bluffing us? Kyle is scum with him, and by bussing him he clears himself perfectly. No one is going to lynch a claimed cop easily, especially if he gets a guilty on a mafia. He may have noticed that with a cop claiming yesterday, he was going to lose a member of his team, and, sacrificing a second, he could clean himself. Notice how both doctors died on the same night, and how Primate survived the last night (unlike the first cop).

Of course, I'm not saying to lynch him today, but the next night he obviously is a mafia kill candidate (if he is telling the truth). If he survives, I say we should consider him for a lynch.

[Toon Fighter]

vote: kyle

[Toon Fighter]

I won't be here till next moday

[Toon Fighter]

With Primate flipping Cop and kyle Townie, one of two things happened:

A) Primate was Sane Cop, but kyle was Miller that doesn't show up on death

B) Primate was InSane Cop, and got random results

C) There is something VERY wrong with the flips. Notice we got nothing on the dead players exact role, only the name. I have no ideia exactly what may be happening here, but we mustn't forget that the name of this game is Seemingly Normal Mafia, and so far everything seems normal.

Also, there are the verbs used when the players died. For everyone lynched, they showed up as lynch. For the NK, they showed up as ether surgically removed (in the doctor's case), killed, and, in Primate's case, slashed. I don't think that in the doctor's case it was just flavour, their death may also have a different reason than the rest.

If you want massclaim, fine by me. We lost two cops and two docs alredy, and, if Primate was indeed killed by a Vig, it was likely a one-shot, or he would have slashed someone earlier. There should not be many power roles left, so I don't think town has much to lose by massclaim.

[Toon Fighter]

Am still here and reading the game, waiting for the massclaim to finish or for someone to pick

[Toon Fighter]

I agree with Kairyuu, those posts where very suspicious.

vote: raider

@ zazier: will answer your questions when I have more time, now I can't

[Toon Fighter]

So far we have:

dana - VT
Hades - Roleblock
raider - Hider
Kairyuu - VT
Me - VT

Am I forgetting someone?

[Toon Fighter]

If you didn't start as a vig, then what did you start the game as?

[Toon Fighter]

unvote, vote: Dana

Here goes nothing

[Toon Fighter]

I will answer those questions (unless I die tonight) but currently I have been busy with college, and (my mistake, I know) I signed up in a few too many games at once (and currently they are all daytime). I promise I will answer you tomorrow.

[Toon Fighter]

List of dead:

2 scum
2 SK
10 town (2 cops, 2 doctors, rest vanilla)

That leaves 6 players:
Hades
CMaR
Toon Fighter
Kairyuu
Anon
Raider

Looking at the outed roles by now, I think there are two more scumbags in the game.

Yesterday Claims:
Me - VT
Kairyuu - VT
Raider - Hider
CMaR - ??? (hasn't claimed yet, I say he should claim ASAP)
Anon - VT
Hades - Roleblock

Following Kairyuu's analysis, I believe that scum either have two more goons, or they have a more powerful role and a Goon. I will wait for CMaR to claim, and then proceed to vote for someone.

Yesterday, Zazier had posed me some questions that he wanted to see answered. He is now dead (and scum), so, if any of you want me to answer them, just ask.

[Toon Fighter]

I'm a "'nilla townie" which is just a vanilla townie I suppose - I can vote post and not much more
I need to start reading this thread, but the case against Hades seems pretty good atm

I believe this claim, as my role PM says the exact same words: "'nilla townie". I don't recall anyone else posting this in the thread, so I just wanted to point this out. This confirms CMaR's innocence in my eyes.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Hades: see post 961. Raider hid behind Anon for two nights. Either you suspect him aswell or you trust his claim and believe Anon's innocence. Also, I can confirm CMaR's claim, as our MP's must have the same words for our role ('nilla townie).

Plus, your post 964 has massive amounts of WIFOM. You say you would suspect somebody with the same claim in a different game, but you want us to trust yours because, well, it's you who is claiming now. I don't buy it.

vote: Hades

[Toon Fighter]

I trust CMAR's claim, and I doubt raider's claim, so I propose to lynch him. What do you think?

[Toon Fighter]

I am doubting your claim now because both Anon and Kairyuu turned up guilty. I believe that, if you really are an Hider, then Anon got his role mid-game OR he didn't count as scum for your role.

Plus, you had a very good role to claim and very difficult to back up. Plus, you say you haven't been hiding since you claimed. That is suspicious.

I don't know if scum got a townie role PM, but that was a very good move right there. If you are right, either I or CMaR could be bluffing (him, since I am townie). If you are scum and trying to buy more time, it would also be a pretty good strategy, making me doubt CMaR and making him doubt me. Very well played, sir.

[Toon Fighter]

I say that because, a fez days ago, somebody said they received their role (claimed 1-shot vig) mid-game. Zazier, I think. He was later found to be a SK. Also, the lack of kills that would be expected to the massive number of SK's.

I see a few options:

1) All the SK's started as SK's were 1-shot (we would have to count the number of deaths and subtract the mafia to find out more about this)
2) The SK's got their role mid-game, and they are 1-shot (explaining Zazier's claim and the lack of kills)
3) The SK's got their role mid-game, and they have more than 1-shot

I don't think that they started D1 with unlimited shots. There were to few deaths.

[Toon Fighter]

No, I haven't changed role. Assuming our line of thought is correct and the SK's are 1-shot each (ignoring the question of whether they started as SK's or not), then, we have either 1 Mafia + 1 SK (without a shot) +1 townie or 1 SK (without a shot) + 2 townies.

If we have option 1, then (for me at least, as townie) who we lynch today is irrelevant. If I vote for one of you, the other hammers and the game either ends tied (SK (no shot) vs Townie) or with a mafia win.

If we have option two, then we are at LyTie. Here, who we lynch actualy does matter, as we can either win or tie.

I thought of supporting a No-Lynch here (if we are S1, only the SK would protest, as the mafia would win, and the town wouldn't really lose anything and in S2, we would lose nothing) but it may be too risky. What if the SK still has a shot? What if I misjudged something and town ends up losing? What if there are no more SK's?

[Toon Fighter]

2 interesting things I noticed:

1) The doctors who died N2 show upo as "surgically removed". Well, all the mafia victims are "killed" and all SK victims are "slashed". There are only 3 slashed victims, so we are back to square one about the possibility of there being another SK. Plus, kills may have failed, yadda yadda yadda...

2) I was looking for a way to confirm my innocence, and I stumbled upon Primate, or long forgotten dead cop. He was disbelieved after death, since he had got a scum result on kyle and he was town, leading to a mislynch. But I found this:

N1 - investigated kairyuu - got town (wrong)
N2 - investigated Konowa - got town (correct)
N3 - investigated Kyle - got scum (wrong)
N4 - investigated TF - got town (correct, according to me, at least)

So, IF my pattern holds up, you have a clear look as Primate investigated correctly every other night. As he is now dead, this is only a curiosity (if correct, he may be simply random), but if my theory is correct, then I am confirmed town as of now.

[Toon Fighter]

Ok, its all up to me now. I don't want to screw this up... You both have very good reasons to be voted for, and good reasons to be town aswell. I want to trust you both, but, if one of you is lying, I would bet Raider. His claim is still suspicious, and I believe that CMaR got the town PM. I don't think it is likely that players do change sides, the only "evidence" we have on that is EB saying he got 1-shot vig mid game, when he was a SK. I may be wrong (though I hope I am right) but I

vote: Raider

.

Hope town wins

[Toon Fighter]

So, no scum gloating? No mod posts ending the game? I really exected the game to be over by now. Oh well. I suppose I can wait a few more hours.

[Toon Fighter]

yay, we won! Due to sheer luck, and that's what I call... Pulling a homer.

And I was right, in the begining, theorizing that there was no mafia.

[Toon Fighter]

The player you substituted could have hided for you.