Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[evilsnail]

No noise, no ward.

[evilsnail]

16 pages already, wow. This is a proactive town. Will try to get up to speed soonish.

[evilsnail]

If I'm reading it right, there's still something unexplained about the ani claim, right? We have no reason for why his Stalk didn't fail because of the Ward. I mean, I think the fact that his insanity has been confirmed means he's probably town, but it's still a little mystery.

Adel's claim that there are players from the last game on the cultist team was off. He said it with certainty, but then backed up with a largely probabilistic explanation.

Re breaking strategy: I'm all for it if it improves our chances. Adel replacing out seems a bit of an overreaction. If you're not willing to respect the mod's choices, you shouldn't play.

[evilsnail]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Good point.

Vote: Nicodemus

[evilsnail]

Hmm?

[evilsnail]

I'd noticed it on my read through and thought it was a bit off, but I didn't think too much about it and kinda forgot about it when reading all the stuff about ani. When Phate brought it up, I realised why it had seemed off to me in the first place. I've caught scum before on the basis of a preoccupation with only certain aspects of the rules.

[evilsnail]

I only saw it like a couple of hours ago, on my first read through all of the thread, and, as I said, I forgot about it.

[evilsnail]

I'm fine with the Elli plan, though I think there's a good chance that are a couple of scum on Elli's shooter list. That's pretty inevitable. But I think it should improve our chances.

I don't really see it as a game-breaking strategy. It's more like lynching lots of times.

[evilsnail]

Yeah, I don't think we need to worry too much about people becoming Murderers. It takes a long time and we can make people take insanities that can be confirmed. This all should ensure that we can catch Murderers long before they win. The only real concern should be the make-up of the list.

[evilsnail]

I'm starting to agree that Elli's plan has too many problems. I didn't really consider the fact that scum can daytalk. I don't see how the people pushing the plan are automatically scum, though. It's not like townies never have bad ideas..

[evilsnail]

I'm starting to agree that Elli's plan has too many problems. I didn't really consider the fact that scum can daytalk. I don't see how the people pushing the plan are automatically scum, though. It's not like townies never have bad ideas..

Yes, but townies try to figure out if the plan being pushed is bad or not. None of you really did, you just said 'hey, good plan. gogogogogogogogogo' because, you know, you're scum. duh.

Oh right, well wow, good thing you noticed. Game over, I guess.

In the same way that townies can have bad ideas, townies can follow other people when they shouldn't or not be critical enough of other people's ideas.

[evilsnail]

I'm not feeling the Iecerint wagon. I haven't really seen a convincing case on him. And I don't think whether or not a player supported Elli's plan is a tell either way.

I thought Nico's response to the case on him was pretty okay. I'm still suspicious of the fact that he didn't seem to know the rules for ward, but I think I want to put pressure elsewhere for the moment. I got a scummy feeling off of Katy's first few posts.

Again though, I have to reread some things. Many people seem to believe Adel/Hayker to be solidly town and I have to see why. I also need to reread Nicodemus to see why he is such a popular lynch choice.

This is odd, because she's read enough of the game to know people's opinions on Adel/Hayker (and have town reads on Sajin and Elli), but her wording is completely neutral. Seems strange that you'd have no opinion at all even after a superficial read (especially if she's been keeping up with the game). Feels like scum wanting to be able to go either way.

In addition, she's been pretty wishy-washy on both major wagons, leaving herself able to jump on both.

As far as Nicodemus goes, I'm not sure what to think. I don't see anything super scummy in his posts, but nor do I see anything super townie. I do think the one post that was picked out as scummy was certainly anti-town at best and his response (I decided to support it and then I could see if it was a good plan after we decided to do it), is nonsensical at best. While I agree that it looks more lazy, I think it could just as easily be lazy scum as lazy town, just trying to go with the flow.

A good first post from Magua and I agree with a lot that he says, although not totally on Iecerint. How he's acting is consistent with when he plays town. The only thing is, I haven't played with Iecerint as scum. I'm basically neutral but cautious on him for now.

Unvote, Vote: Katy

@Magua:

evilsnail: My predecessor voted him, and upon the read, I have to agree. It's a lack of content, a going along with the flow, "I guess we can do that..." Post #691/694 really seals it for me, though.

What are you quoting here? I don't think I ever said that. Lack of content? How so? I don't have a lot of posts, sure, but I haven't posted any fluff.

@Wickedestjr: I've explained the Nico thing a couple of times, I think. Note that Phate posted right after me. It's not like I forgot for very long.

[evilsnail]

I didn't rez CSL either. I think the scenario under which scum rezzes CSL to set up a mislynch is kinda unlikely. That rez kit could also go to saving a scum later, making the trade-off not really worth it, even if you were somehow assured the mislynch is going to happen. In contrast, rezzing a cultist CSL is totally worth it for cult.

[evilsnail]

How is rezzing cultCSL totally worth it?

Rezzing town-CSL is exchanging a dead townie for a dead townie, at best (NK for mislynch), and a dead townie for an alive one, in the worst case scenario. Rezzing scum-CSL is exchanging a dead scum for a dead scum, in the worst case scenario, and exchanging a dead scum for a live one, in the best case scenario.

I'll be voting CSL once we've heard from those who haven't checked in. Still an outside chance some really stupid townie rezzed CSL.

[evilsnail]

I investigated Chaco last night. He wasn't bloody, which means that, if he killed start, he didn't participate in the ritual N1.

Was passed a fetish. GAH!!!!! Picked twitch for resulting insanity.

This seems insincere to me somehow. Could be a way of justifying an insanity. I'd like DGB to confirm the insanity.

vote: evilsnail

Very little in the way of unique contribution and activity overall. A lot of minor parroting.

Don't pretend this is anything more than an inactivity vote. When I do post, I do contribute. And point out where I'm parroting, please.

[evilsnail]

Semioldguy, is there anything real to your suspicions of me or is it all activity-based? Because let's not ignore the obvious hypothesis that I'm just a busy townie.

Also, just because I agree with someone doesn't mean I'm parroting. I'll grant you the Nico thing doesn't look very original, though I'll note that, at the time, it was only Phate who'd said anything about it.

Yeah, I don't think we need to worry too much about people becoming Murderers. It takes a long time and we can make people take insanities that can be confirmed. This all should ensure that we can catch Murderers long before they win. The only real concern should be the make-up of the list.

This was simply true at the time. Sure, it may not have beared repeating, but I seem to recall I had a vote out on Nico at the time and I was waiting for a response. It's not like I was avoiding scumhunting.

I'm starting to agree that Elli's plan has too many problems. I didn't really consider the fact that scum can daytalk. I don't see how the people pushing the plan are automatically scum, though. It's not like townies never have bad ideas..

I don't see what's parroting about this. I'm sharing my change of opinion and adding my opinion on what this means.

(The above quotes have some posts which follow them that basically restate the same or further justify your parroting posts to other players)

Where have I justified my parroting posts?

[evilsnail]

evilsnail

- Nicodemus claimed to have suspected viking, sog, and evilsnail all for the same reason yet he only quotes examples from viking and sog. Also, evilsnail's vote for Nicodemus looked like bussing.

Scum

You realise no one else was voting Nico at the time, right?

@semioldguy, I guess if you don't believe me on the Nico thing (not like anyone seems to), then that could look like I was justifying parroting. I don't see how me saying that agreeing with a bad plan isn't necessarily scummy can really be said to be the same thing, unless you don't share this opinion. Don't you think townies can agree with people and be wrong about it?

Also, your vote on me was basically your first real one. You joined the Nico and CSL wagon with no real reasoning of your own and you didn't make any cases before that. Do you think that behaviour qualifies as parroting?

I like Magua's list, except for where he put me. Some harsh words about my content too that I don't agree with. I don't think my posts are all that different from any townie with my activity level. But I guess site meta on activity has changed since I last played.

[evilsnail]

@elvis:

I have 0 insanities.

N0: no noise, no ward.
N1: no noise, no ward.
N2: no noise, no ward.

And I investigated Chaco last night and he wasn't bloody.

[evilsnail]

@animorpherv1, evilsnail, kunkstar7, Magua, SlySly, Wickedestjr:

Where do you think your votes will be falling today?

SlySly, him picking Compulsion doesn't make any sense, so he's probably lying. I was waiting to see whether the insanity-claims would yield anything new and exciting, but they haven't really, so

Vote: SlySly

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I could also get behind a DGB lynch.

[evilsnail]

SlySly's apparent lack of interest in scumhunting makes me pretty satisfied with my vote.

[evilsnail]

I'm still here. No need to look for a replacement. Still like a SlySly lynch, though I could go for a DGB lynch as well.

[evilsnail]

I found a scum. I investigated vikingfan and he was bloody.

Vote: vikingfan

Didn't hear noise. Actually did hear noise N2 (contrary to what I said). I just forgot about it.

[evilsnail]

I looked at my Night PM, but I was more interested in my investigation of Chaco, so I guess that's why.

[evilsnail]

This is the relevant bit from the rules:

Your target hears Noise. Any Resuscitate action targeting you tonight will fail, and the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure. If you successfully protect them, you become Bloody,

and your target both becomes Bloody and gains an Insanity when the killing action (Murder or the Ritual) resolves

.

This says that the target and the rezzer become bloody

only when the killing action resolves

, so after Investigate.

Now, I suppose you could interpret the "and" differently, so that both the target and the rezzer become Bloody at the time of rezzing and then the target gains an insanity when the killing action resolves. That seems weird, but I guess you could read it that way.

HOWEVER, in the notes, the former interpretation is clearly emphasised.

If more killing actions target the player than there are players Resuscitating them, then the kill is not prevented,

though you still become Bloody when the killing action resolves

.

So, rezzing doesn't make you bloody until after the killing action and vikingfan was bloody before being rezzed.

Therefore, vikingfan is lying scum.

[evilsnail]

vikingfan, Percy has confirmed that you being bloody had nothing to do with being rezzed. Care to offer an alternative explanation?

[evilsnail]

@rewq, SOG, and evilsnail - If you guys have occult books, it could be a good idea to cross examine one another. Thoughts?

Sure. I still have a pair of Occult Books. Wasn't SOG's insanity count already confirmed, though? By you even, I seem to remember.