Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[vikingfan]

Not only that, semi, finding blood, using that sequence, is not failsafe as the person found could very well have rescuscitated someone and be unable to do anything about it due to the way things sequence.

Commune, IMO, will be a lot more accurate than Investigating will be, even though it only measures sanities, not blood Unless I'm missing something...

[vikingfan]

Oh, and I didn't ward and I did hear noise.

[vikingfan]

Animo wants us to believe that he chose the only useless night 0 action, not to mention one of only two night 0 actions that cause insanity.

So there are two possibilties

1) He is cult
2) He stalked last night
3) He is a waste of space and the most useless town we have.

I am happy to lynch based on these three possibilities

The comparison is Dramonic, who I'll admit I haven't had great experiences with in other games, but that's pure meta bias, and nothing he's done in this game deserves a lynch.

I don't believe what he just said was a slip, he's simply saying that Sajin would catch him the moment he went bad.

I can't sum up my reaction any better than this.

vote Animo

[vikingfan]

Something I just noted from the OP that may change our warding decisions.

Those who Ward AUTOMATICALLY hear noise, no matter what else happens.

[vikingfan]

Baltar, there's one thing. The OP states that if you Stalk, you will be told if it works out or not right away. There's nothing from ani's post to make me believe it did not go through. Ani, want to speak up on this?

In any case, one of three possibilities come up: VP is lying, Ani is lying again (even MORE stupidly since his stalking wouldn't have worked), or VP got warded.

The OP says this, specificially:

If your action fails for any reason, you will be informed via PM (with Ward being the only exception).

[vikingfan]

The OP says:

If a player reaches an Insanity Count of 8, they will no longer gain any Insanities.


BTW, does anyone know how to do the nice sweet quoting that can cite the OP directly? I know the quote function but that's way too bulky.

[vikingfan]

Adel - Heard noise. No ward.
Amished - Heard noise. No ward.
animorpherv1 - no noise, stalked
Chaco - heard noise, warded dram
Col. Cathart - Heard noise. No ward.
dramonic - Heard noise. No ward.
Drench
DrippingGoofball - Heard noise. No comment on ward.
Ellibereth - heard noise, no ward
elvis_knits - Heard noise. Used ward.
evilsnail - No noise. No ward.
Faraday - No noise. No ward.
Iecerint - Heard noise. No ward.
iLord - Heard noise. No ward.
Nicodemus - No noise. No ward.
Phate - Heard noise. No ward.
Sajin - Heard noise. No ward.
Sarag
Seacore - Heard noise. No ward.
semioldguy - No noise. No ward.
SlySly - No noise. No ward.
startransmission - No noise. No ward.
vikingfan - Heard noise. No ward.
VP Baltar - Heard noise. Used ward.
Wickedestjr - Heard noise. Used ward.

People who have warded (-Drench, Sarag): Chaco(dram), elvis, VP(Adel), Wick.

Adding to say that I looked and Sarag said he didn't ward but heard noise.

Taking those who heard noise but didn't ward alone (since those who ward automatically hear noise), that means, not counting drench (who still hasn't showed up), we have 15 (also depending on dgb). We've got 4 certified warders (again not counting drench, who is annoyingly muddling the numbers). Assuming none of the warders targeted each other, that means you can subtract 4 from the number of 15 that are explainable. Then, 2 are explainable from cultist. That means we have as many as NINE potential murderers ready to kill tonight (plus the cult's kills). And Warding can't protect that, only Rescuscitation kits (as I read it), AND those players have to guess correctly who to protect. And town can't respond back using the town/kill mechanis.

Something very important to note from the OP...warding does NOT protect from a kill, only passing the fetish, stalking, and crafting the fetish. We've got a potential of 9 Murderers already ready to kill as soon as the sun goes down. Unless we get a lot of cross-killing, town could be hurting, especially if we don't have a lot of Rescuscitation Kits handy.

I want to see if Adel's plan accounts for this. It might be back to the drawing board. Am I missing something?

Of course, this is all off if people are lying above about noise but this is one of the few things I think everyone will be truthful on...it's in their interest to do so.

[vikingfan]

Also, town can't kill tonight, only stalk...murderers and cultists can KILL. And if a town stalks a person who dies tonight, then it's worthless for them since they can't kill the next night anyway and then they're back on the same board as murderers and cultists in waiting 2 nights before they can kill again.

[vikingfan]

OK, so now everyone has spoken up. Unless someone is lying, VP was not warded.

Which means either Ani is lying about who he targeted or VP is lying (which I don't buy as that would be stupid and unnecessary to do that without prompting).

At this point, I'd rather kill off Ani and have dramonic be our grave robber...ani is so unreliable with anything he says I'm not even sure I can trust him to grave rob for us correctly.

[vikingfan]

25 players, so it's about 18/7 or something like that, right? Whatever, this is what I have for now.

TOWN
Adel
Ani
Elli
elvis
Phate
VP
Wick
Chaco
iLord
DGB
Sea
Ice

EVERONE ELSE
Amished
Col. Cathart
dramonic
Drench
evilsnail
Faraday
Nicodemus
Sajin
Sarag
semioldguy
startransmission
vikingfan

Unvote

until I'm all the way done.

Mind explaining your rationale for putting different people in different slots? I'm not ready to proclaim certain people players or town yet, especially with the potential for going murderer later. and just because people claimed, like elvis, to ward doesn't mean they necessarily did, which you seem to assume and make them town as a result.

Also, I don't like how this seems to try to steer town to some degree.

[vikingfan]

unvote

finally caught up.

Here's my BIGGEST problem with the plan that no one has brought up. Cultists can daytalk. That means they can coordinate in their thread exactly how to manipulate us to get as many cultists as possible on the Shoot list.

There's something else to note...cultists, due to their daytalking abiilty, are much more likely to be involved with the game than a normal investigator would be. This means potentially some of the people who are most involved with the game, and therefore looking more town, are actually scum.

Cultists have a big advantage over normal scum in this game in that they can see a problem that comes up during the day, discuss it, and react to it all without us knowing what they're thinking.

How are we, as a town, going to counteract this for Elli's plan?

[vikingfan]

What on earth do you mean, DGB?

[vikingfan]

Katy and Sea are the same, Ellibereth. But otherwise I agree with you.

Nic utterly fails to convince me.

vote nic

[vikingfan]

although with the exception that since we're not executing the plan, I'm not sure I can trust Elli not to turn murderer at some point.

[vikingfan]

holy cow...just caught up...ridiculous overkilling.

I'm banking Nico's turning up scum after that self-hammer. amazing how much action there is before the night hits...

[vikingfan]

correct, DGB.

[vikingfan]

I did not rez CSL or Hayker.

I'm also going to make a point here that I don't think anyone has made yet. Claiming to be rezzed is a PERFECT fakeclaim for gaining an insanity. Why? Because even if no one claims to have done it, you know who could have? One of the dead people from the previous night. And they're not alive to say either way.

This is one of the big things that occurs with the way night actions resolve. Murders and deaths through the Ritual happen at the END of the night...Warding and Rescuscitating, especially, still go through from the people who die. This kind of logic will be stronger endgame when scum have fewer invisible sanities to choose from and need to figure out plausible ways to have gained an insanity.

I believe Phate on his resurrection since cult not doing the Ritual would be suicide. I'm not yet prepared to believe hayker unless someone steps forward to confirm resurrecting her.

I just saw in the last post about the warding thing and my response to that is that every time I reread the rules, I get new things. Keep in mind also that I didn't ward the first night.

SlySly, we will have enough bodies for 2 graverobbers tonight. We'll have 3 dead people + whoever we lynch today, which makes 4.

in conclusion,

vote CSL

. After looking at it, rezzing him is a scum action (assuming Elli isn't lying) and I don't think cult would waste a rez on a town player when they're probably more interested in making sure one of their own survives (if he/she was on the heard noise/did not ward list from the previous night).

[vikingfan]

Sly, I meant for TONIGHT, that's the case...because Elli and Ani will have 4 bodies to rob. I wasn't referring to future nights.

Oh, and I did not hear noise either and thus did not ward.

[vikingfan]

Sly, I meant for TONIGHT, that's the case...because Elli and Ani will have 4 bodies to rob. I wasn't referring to future nights.

Oh, and I did not hear noise either and thus did not ward.

Real slow now...

Tonight, 5 potential murderers now x 2 bodies each = 10 bodies.

First, the murderers/cult have to stalk tonight, THEN kill the next night. Second, they are not getting 2 kills each night, so where are you getting the x 2 from. We're going to have 4 bodies after today's lynch. Let's say we have 5 murderers...that's still only 5 bodies, plus whatever the cult does. One person can rob 2 graves a night.

What am I missing here? there's nothing close to 10 here.

[vikingfan]

DGB, mind saying anything MORE in addition to that. Percy already acknowledged he messed up...that's a nonstarter now.

You've also been lurking hardcore this game...give us some actual thoughts rather than only popping in when suspected.

[vikingfan]

start, Chaco, plum, semi, and wicked still need to say if they rezzed anyone. They day ain't ending before they do.

Can these 5 be prodded?

[vikingfan]

Yes to both questions. Note also that a modkill may end the Day at my discretion; for example, forcing a player to receive a modkill due to Insanity Infractions will end the day as though a Lynch had occured.

Prods going out to Chaco, Plum, semioldguy and Wickedestjr.

Okay, then, it looks like we get 2 nights.

What do you guys think about everyone grave robbing Iec and taking an insanity tonight, then everyone getting 3 infractions tomorrow and the day after? Cultists can't ritual, Murderer's can't stalk, but town can still lynch.

Alternatively, people we're positive are town (Like Phate), can be excluded from this.

From the OP: If this occurs for a second time, or gains 8 Insanity Infractions over the course of the game, they will be modkilled.

This might work, but it will only work ONCE and Percy already said it was blacklistable (and people like Ani can't do it).

And who said Phate was cleared? He's likely not cult but could still be one of our stalker-murderers.

[vikingfan]

From the OP: If this occurs for a second time, or gains 8 Insanity Infractions over the course of the game, they will be modkilled.

This might work, but it will only work ONCE and Percy already said it was blacklistable (and people like Ani can't do it).

Hmm, didn't see that. Regardless, I see no sense in not using what we have. Elli needs to max out Insanity infractions at the very least, to dissuade him from going murderer/stop him from stalking.

Who else is scummy and has an insanity?

There's 2 ways to get someone modkilled here...getting 8 IL's OR doing it twice. I have no idea how many infractions Elli has but he's done enough that I'm not sure that doing 3 in a row right now wouldn't put him over the top.

Also, people are human and fallible...do we want to necessarily lose a grave robber in case Elli screws up accidentally later? just food for thought.

[vikingfan]

We may as well just lynch CSL then once our last two MIA players show up to report whether or not they rezzed. Save a replacement the trouble of reading 54 pages for nothing.

[vikingfan]

@Percy: Sorry for being inactive, but I'm declaring V/LA until Friday, A bit overwhelmed at the moment.

Can you please announce if you rezzed anyone? I don't want to wait 3 days for one player.

[vikingfan]

We may as well just lynch CSL then once our last two MIA players show up to report whether or not they rezzed. Save a replacement the trouble of reading 54 pages for nothing.

We still have to co-ord night actions though.

That won't take 3 days to do though...that can be figured out in 12 hours.

[vikingfan]

So now we have to wait 3 days for Chaco ?

[vikingfan]

On the contrary, I think it can slow down our kills significantly. For each three bodies, we can roughly lock down three people (A robs X and Y, B robs Y and Z, C robs X and Z, we pray to god that no Murderer/Cultist is ballsy enough to not rob on the chance that the body has no items).

We can expect around four murders on Night 3 at this point - that's a lot of murderers we can use grave robbing to check.

Not necessarily. You're forgetting murderers can take one of two tacks at this point: A) they can launder tonight and go from there, or B) take the more risky route and not launder and risk being caught bloody.

If a murderer gets picked night 4, that just means they didn't murder that particular night...doesn't mean that scum didn't choose to launder night 3, stalk night 4, is framing an innocent player night 4, and murders night 5 after we lynch the player day 5.

[vikingfan]

Hold on...I'm not buying the immediate 'got passed a fetish, therefore I'm innocent' line of reasoning. Scum has to figure out ways to explain getting insanities, especially as the game goes on.

Ani, any reason for you picking up an insanity.

Heard noise, did not ward.

I'm going to guess a murderer used a Rob Grave on Sajin to mess up our plan. Doesn't make sense for cult or town to do so. I'm going to go one step farther and assume it's a murderer immediately on the chopping block like drench/kunkstar. Someone who's a murderer and not close to the chopping block won't do it...they need to keep their insanities as low as possible. so I'm going to

vote drench

I'm pretty sure CSL was cult...doesn't make sense for cult to rez a murderer but makes perfect sense for cult to do so.

[vikingfan]

bah

unvote vote kunkstar

[vikingfan]

I killed Start. I have two insanities: Taboo Launder and Twitchy.

Vote: Ani

???? explain this please? VERY quickly. Start is not dead according to Percy.

[vikingfan]

I killed Start. I have two insanities: Taboo Launder and Twitchy.

Vote: Ani

???? explain this please? VERY quickly. Start is not dead according to Percy.

Oh ok...did not see the OP. I would like to know your reasoning for doing so. How do we know you are town still and not a murderer/cultist?

I wish we knew if star was cultist or murderer. 3 insanities could mean either one.

[vikingfan]

I killed Start. I have two insanities: Taboo Launder and Twitchy.

Vote: Ani

???? explain this please? VERY quickly. Start is not dead according to Percy.

Oh ok...did not see the OP. I would like to know your reasoning for doing so. How do we know you are town still and not a murderer/cultist?

I wish we knew if star was cultist or murderer. 3 insanities could mean either one.

I chose the insanities I did because they are easily checked up on. If I was a murderer I would not want to be bloody, so I tabooed launder. And twitchy is the most easily checked up on.

Also, was getting terrible vibes from Start. Seemed to be right about them.

OK, that's what I thought, but wanted to make sure.

[vikingfan]

Correct me if I'm missing something, but isn't Drench's replacement likely murderer? She's already admitted that Drench tracked/attempted to murder Adel before she replaced in. That's two insanities - enough for Drench to choose Psychopathy if she wanted (Which Stalking Adel N0 would suggest).

I chose twitchy for my second insanity instead of Psychopathy. In effect, I was murderer, but not now.

Nice try. But we've already had TWO nights already before you replaced in and you keep saying it's your second insanity. The OP says even if one fails in a murder/stalk, the side effects still carry through of gaining an sanity. So you've got three and the one you picked last night is your third. If you ARE innocent, then you wouldn't have even needed to pick an insanity last night...you would have just laundered or done something else. Vote stands.

Mind naming all your insanities?

[vikingfan]

I can live with kunkstar for now, but I do want him as a grave robber, just in case.

unvote

. Which he and others seem to be fine with, so everything's fine there.

I am still extremely suspicious of DGB...extreme lurking the past few days combined with just 'getting a fetish' today looks suspicious to me. Scum needs to explain ways of getting insanities early as well as late, especially for cultists (since the psychopathy of murderer is not open to them) so I don't want to just let things sail just because someone 'got a fetish'. This is especially true in DGB's case since so and so has already been extremely lurking and not helping the town.

vote dgb

[vikingfan]

iLord...consider this also as a factor toward my heavy suspicion toward DGB (this would also apply toward kunk as well). SOMEBODY opted to graverob Sajin when we all said specifically not to so that we could block kills (especially murderers) tonight. So some scum decided to rob one grave in addition to another action so that he/she could wreck town's plan. It didn't work out, but the INTENT was still there.

This, to me, is one of our strongest leads right now.

[vikingfan]

Who has yet to post since the game came back from night? and can they be prodded?

[vikingfan]

iLord, it doesn't point to DGB specifically, but she was already one of the highest people on the chopping block for today by some margin. Does it point to her specfically? No. But it is indicative of the pool of people we should look at.

Kunk, did you rob Sajin?

I agree with you VP. Here's my question. At what point would percy say once couldn't change it? What if this was Day 3? Day 4? Day 5? Day 6?

There has to be a point where Percy would say, "Nope, this is the hand you've been dealt."

[vikingfan]

WHAT? There's NO way I can see Percy making the offer...just don't see it.

SlySly, did Percy make the offer to you? I just can't see it...we've had a lot of replacements already in this game and I can't see Percy making the offer to every replacement. Just doesn't jibe.

Semi, i see it more as a clue to know where to look. I'm not expecting scum to announce it, I just want to keep it in mind.

[vikingfan]

Did anybody except me and DGB claim to have recieved fetishes?

Plum did too.

Dramonic, point to Magua's 'scummy interventions please'.

[vikingfan]

For myself, I did not hear noise and did not ward night 1. Night 2 I did not ward but did hear noise.

DGB claimed that she's tried rezzing EK twice, presumably the last two nights (night 0 would be stupid).

[vikingfan]

EK and DGB- Stop posting about what you're going to do in the future. It's antitown. From the OP:

Any Resuscitate action targeting you tonight will fail, and the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure.


Basically, declaring that you will rezz ANYONE paints a great big bullseye on your back saying, "I'm unprotected, kill me." One could say that one could use WIFOM, except for this...TOWN will not know to protect you either because they will figure, 'Hey, that person is not worth protecting because I can't save them so I'll go after someone else.' Keep your future actions to yourself...we want to keep as many players alive as possible.

Posting about rezzes you've done in the past is fine. Posting about what you're going to do in the future is not.

[vikingfan]

Do those who have used Commune claim it? or do we keep that secret for now?

[vikingfan]

I have one insanity: avolition elvis_knits and I'll prove it by

unvote vote elvis

. I've picked up both a rez kit and occult books and so far have one innocent. Should I reveal said innocent?

Insanity Infraction

[vikingfan]

It may be much to ask, but I did hear noise, and only gained my 1 Insanity, so may I be warded?

Oh, and I'm not Bloody.

WHAT? what have you been DOING if not graverobbing? you should have several insanities by now.

And asking to be warded does you no good if you've already heard noise last night...you should be asking to be rezzed. Sheesh...sometimes I think you forget how this game works. And there are some other ways you can hear noise anyway besides stalking/fetishes.

[vikingfan]

Oh, never mind. for some reason I thought you'd been graverobbing a lot more. but you still should have 2 insanities due to last night. the point still stands on the rezzing.

[vikingfan]

Aversion yes.

[vikingfan]

I dunno...with so few people claiming noises, it helps our res people out since not that many people are claiming noises today. Therefore, it should be easier to protect against murders/ritual tonight.

Of course, it might just be that our murderers chose to launder and stay safe, but as mentioned before, we're fine with that if they gave us an extra day. But I'm not sure we want to put a bullseye on too many people at the moment.

[vikingfan]

Also, jsut thought I'd point this out. Murderers are as dangerous, if not more, as the cult. However, they are signifigantly less dangerous as long as 2 of them exist. I kinda understand people worrying more about cult, but we cannot ignore murders for anymore then today, if even. Drench/kunk, you are in my scum books.

a LOT of this depends on how Start flips. If he flips cult, then cult's down to 3 members, half their original number (I'm assuming CSL was cult due to the rez). If, on the other hand, he flips murderer, then we may have a nasty situation on our hands as we may be down to 2 murderers already and can't afford to lynch one for fear of losing the game as soon as the survivor gets the 3rd kill (if we reach this spot, we're going to need a good rezzing plan in action).

The number of nightkills (and rezzes) we get tonight will hopefully tell us more as we're going to need to know pretty soon how to deal with this very real possibiliy.

Wait...I just relooked at the list. Magua, you're recorded as having heard noise but not warded day 1 like us. I looked at him in iso and he's also recorded as having heard noise last night (and presumably not warding). So he's also added to our little club of 4 with me, ilord, and semi.

[vikingfan]

Wait, according to EK's list, Semi never heard noise night one. So subtract him from our group.

[vikingfan]

Hold on...semi's VERY FIRST POST says that he heard no noise night 0...yet at the top of page 66, semi very clearly says he heard noise night 0.

I think we caught a scum. sorry for the triple post folks, but I think this is worth it.

unvote vote semi

[vikingfan]

Hold on...semi's VERY FIRST POST says that he heard no noise night 0...yet at the top of page 66, semi very clearly says he heard noise night 0.

I think we caught a scum. sorry for the triple post folks, but I think this is worth it.

unvote vote semi

Read my post again. The logic applies if noise was first heard on either Night Zero or Night One and then heard again on a later night.

The only actions that would cause someone's first noise on both Night Zero and One are Stalk, Craft Fetish and Ward. If no one claims the ward, as people have been claiming wards, it can be assumed to be one of the other two actions. If the player doesn't die, stalk would be unlikely, leaving only one option: Craft Fetish.

The reason this logic doesn't apply after Nights Zero and One is that investigation actions start happening.

This could apply to more than just the three of us. Noise claims are not complete.

Oh ok, my bad. Do keep in mind though that on night 1 (the night you claimed you heard noise), a rez is possible. It's not possible for Magua, ilord, or myself. So it's slightly different.

unvote

[vikingfan]

Anyone who heard noise at all and is not dead, as long as the only noise isn't a claimed ward.

This is true for the ritual, not true for stalking murderers. Those who did not hear noise last night are not under consideration for rez from murderers.

I don't buy SlySly's explanation, but DGB bugs me more. She says Sly's town, but votes him? and she's been lurking too.

vote dgb

.

Sly, you better have some REALLY good reasons for compulsion and hallucination. I'm at the point where it's almost a good idea to lynch anyone who says he took hallucination. Given our high number of scum at present, I think both dgb and sly are suspicious at present.

[vikingfan]

unvote vote sly

Now that I know the history between sly and dgb, that exchange makes better sense. Sly, however...well, everything he's said since his initial confession has smelled of lies.

Before we lynch, though, we should figure out who are our graverobbers for tonight.

[vikingfan]

Also some players like kunk haven't posted in a few days...prod please?

[vikingfan]

Can we get noise claims and other relevant info from everyone before we lynch? Last game it was helpful to have the claims in as they happened rather than several days after the fact, we made sure we got claims from everyone.

Lynching so quickly, regardless of who we lynch, is distracting and lets people avoid claiming insanities and noises. It keeps the town in the dark.

I counted before I voted...we're still L-4.

[vikingfan]

L-3 actually...forgot to count my own vote with that.

[vikingfan]

No one who was acting with the intention of ever maybe being a Murderer would take Compulsion Night 1. Now stop playing semantics.

How do we know he's telling the truth about taking Compulsion night 1? maybe he never took it. Maybe he took something like taboo launder instead or something.

[vikingfan]

Bodies will be:

Iecerint (Town)
Katy (Town)
Phate (Town)
startransmission (Scum)
SlySly (Scum)
CSL (Scum)

Robbing:

Semi robs CSL + Iec
Elli robs Iec + Katy.
DGB robs Katy + Phate.
Dramonic robs Phate + Start
Magua robs Start + Sly
Chaco/kunkstar robs Sly + CSL

I want to have one probable scum combined with one nonscum for our bodies. The reason for this is that in the case of say, star, he's got 3 insanities. He's quite likely going to have nothing on him. Therefore, we should not have a robber assigned to rob both him and say CSL (or SlySly). Too easy to duck out and commit a murder/cult action and not be able to check it. Unless I'm missing something, I'm recommending changing the combinations.

[vikingfan]

Go right ahead, elvis.

[vikingfan]

I hadn't said it. n0, I got a resuscitation kit. n1, I resuscitated elvis_knits.

Why hadn't you claimed this before?

Um. Why would I claim? We weren't doing a mass claim, and it provided no evidence of innocence or guilt on anyone.

*I* rezzed elvis.

This is a disturbing coincidence/overlap. Could Magua be hiding behind my previously claimed actions?

This is exactly the sort of post that makes me think you're scum.

What has me also thinking she's scum is her outright begging not to graverob and saying she's better off rezzing. Anybody can rez, there's nothing special about DGB that says that she MUST rez. That strikes me more as behavior from a murderer or cult who doesn't want to lose their night action.

I'd like to see past targets, HOWEVER, let's consider this caveat before we do. People who rescuscitate can be killed the same night no matter how much they themselves are protected. What I'm wondering is if we are letting scum know who has rez kits and who don't whether we'll be tipping them off who are good targets to go after (in terms of not being rezzed). Or am I worrying about nothing?

[vikingfan]

Elvis, semi, Elli, hayker, and rewq NOT voting at this point for SlySly is noted (especially if Sly turns up cult), to say nothing of those not voting.

[vikingfan]

So you want a lynch right this minute?

No, I didn't say that. I just noted it.

Though it seems like there's nothing more to do today unless I'm missing something.

[vikingfan]

Yeah, it's probably not a big deal, but I just thought I'd note it. whatever.

[vikingfan]

one question I had for you EK...I assume netherworld is cultist? I wasn't sure what to make of that.

I don't have time now to do a whole player by player analysis but I'm still very suspicious of DGB, kunk (not altogether buying that explanation), and dramonic. Farther down my suspicion list (depending on what the bodies turn out to be still) are players like Elli. Magua I'm ambiguous on. I don't think he's murderer but I could see him being cult.

Partly I'm unsure too because if start is murderer and Sly turns up murderer, then we may have only one more murderer left. If that's the case, DGB is my prime suspect due to her wanting out of robbing duty (the other 3 robbers were all fine with it).

If you have any questions, let me know. But I agree with something like 90% of your list, pending further information.

[vikingfan]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

Eh, that's arguable actually, since we seem to have quite a few scum in the dead bodies.

With doubling up, we have a chance of stopping up to 6 people. Without doubling, we almost guarantee stopping 3 people.

After thinking about it, I actually prefer the guarantee of single robbing. If we choose that, my choice would be:

Elli robs Iec + Katy
DGB robs Phate + Start
Dramonic robs Sly + CSL

This may sound like a poor idea, but why not have one person rob them all, and just lynch them in a few days?

Commune, got a town result. Should I claim on who?
(hint, it's not on Sly)

Also, I'll oblige if graverobbing is required of me, although I still think it'd be more efficient to dual rob, at least on the people we think are town.

What do you mean by a town result? Commune just shows if the other person has more inanities than you.

@animorpherv1, evilsnail, kunkstar7, Magua, SlySly, Wickedestjr:

Where do you think your votes will be falling today?

I see no reason to vote at this point.

This could be a scum member trying to stop us from analyzing his votes like we did to Nico (possibly not , but still).

Max any person can rob in a night is 2. So your suggestion is impossible.

[vikingfan]

My list is the same as VP's.

[vikingfan]

I can go along with that Kunk.

[vikingfan]

Aha! SOMEBODY on that list has avolition who has NOT revealed themselves. We have a chance to catch a scum!

This might be a pain, but do we want to have one person at a time unvote and someone else revote so we can see who's got avolition (and thus, an insanity)?

[vikingfan]

oh never mind. Kunk didn't twitch so the vote doesn't count.

[vikingfan]

iLord, vikingfan = murderers

DGB = scum

EK = town

Mind giving REASONS for your opinions?

I'm getting more and more comfortable with my vote as the day goes on.

[vikingfan]

I don't think I can move my aversion vote off Elvis until/unless she dies. I'm on board with it though whenever that happens.

And that's something to note too...people are going to die eventually and we're going to need to be able to instruct people who to make their next aversion on when that happens.

[vikingfan]

Wait a minute, iLord. How are you going to make sure that scum doesn't just commit murder/the ritual and take aversion as an easy insanity that's explanable?

[vikingfan]

Looks good, iLord.

My only question is that this plan is EXCELLENT for getting cultists..however, is the tradeoff worth it given that it actually HURTS us in terms of getting murderers? Insanities is one of the few ways we can catch them (especially as the game goes on and fewer and fewer invisible insanities remain).

I think it's a tradeoff worth making but I think it's worth noting that it has its drawbacks.

And here's the other thing...we've got a max of 8 insanity infractions total. If we're going to prove each day that we've got an aversion to a new person I could see somebody skyrocketing to the point where we can't ask them to test their insanities anymore. This is particularly true for ani who has a bunch already. This won't be true for tomorrow but in the days to come, this could be an issue.

[vikingfan]

Everyone else who needs a way to gain an insanity robs CSL.

This statement would seem to contradict your thought, semi. And in order to prove we've got the aversion, we're going to need to rack up the insanity infractions. Then add on insanities from commune, rezz, etc, and our ability to prove our insanities will skyrocket (again, ani is the closest by far to this).

[vikingfan]

Wait... I didn't think the plan was for everyone to gain an insanity intentionally, just that if we do gain an insanity to choose aversion and refer to the list as an additional source to eliminate pairings.

That's actually a better idea, as scum would only be only able to go so long without revealing their insanities. It takes away to disadvatage of scum being able to hide behind this, and eventually everyone's likely going to get an insanity one way or another. If we do this, we'll be using the old grave robbing plan then.

I support this.

[vikingfan]

I agree.

Is there anything else before we hammer and end the day?

[vikingfan]

My main response to it is 1) see my sig. Frankly, I don't have a lot of time to play mafia right now because I'm very busy at work lately and lack the time to put in lots of reading. 2) Games where I go full on scumhunting and start really pushing people around usually result in me dying very quickly.

Ironically, 1) would be very nicely solved if the end result of 2) became true .

And what is the real benefit for scum to take that action? What gain would I have garnered by claiming to Ward? Do you think I was trying to get a mislynch?

I for one can say that you warding gave you a lot of town cred in my eyes.

What I'm realizing more and more this game is that going after cult and going after murderers are two VERY DIFFERENT skillsets.

Going after cult is like going after mafia really. They know who each other and one can use interaction with each other as a good barometer of who is scum and who is not (as we did to catch Nico and presumably culty scum CSL). The trouble is, using insanities to catch cult is useless since only 1/3 of them have to do the ritual each night and they can keep using the same people until the insane ones die. Occult books, forensic tools, and insanities are also useless on those who stay at 0 insanities (which is why the avolition insanity works so well, it's the one insanity that we can actually check for cultists).

Going after murderers is the opposite. We can't use interaction with others to trap them...the only ones who know who they are are Percy and themselves. However, going after them using occult books, forensic tools, and insanities will work because they will be stalking and killing as much as possible to win as soon as they can.

Suffice to say, in this game, nobody will ever be 100% cleared town until death (ani is probably as close as we can get due to the 3 IFs). However, classifying players as 'probably not cult' or 'probably not murderer' will work decently.

[vikingfan]

You have nothing more to say than that, DGB. I'm disappointed in you...

SlySly, that's a HORRIBLE reason not to lynch you. For one, start could be a murderer and have picked you as a target. For another, if we lynch you now and you WERE a murderer target, then we force said murderer to start all over with stalking and they're a night later to achieving their wincon.

Both DGB and Sly are looking scummy as heck to me.

[vikingfan]

I'm fine with that.

What insanity should we have DGB take?

[vikingfan]

On that note, is everyone ok with the last posted graverobbing plan? I'm ready to hammer and move on.

I'm fine with the Magua one you've posted. The end of this day is long overdue.

I know...I feel like it should've been over 5 days ago. and ditto on the magua one.

though it did help us with the dgb situation, so that's a plus.

[vikingfan]

Magua, iLord, VikingFan, Semi.

This is our rez list. correct me if I'm wrong.

[vikingfan]

No, that's the scum targetting guide.

No, that's the list of people who heard noise last night IIRC.

[vikingfan]

Actually, that list I took was straight from iLord, I just copied and pasted. Go back and take a look if you like.

And I was rezzed last night (thank you to whoever rezzed me) and took twitchy.

vote ani

. I heard noise, needless to say. So that explains why evilsnail found me bloody.

Insanity Infraction

[vikingfan]

oh and due to ek's death, percy pm'd me to see who my new aversion target is and it's now VP.

[vikingfan]

post 121 by iLord in iso, to be exact, is where I got it from.

[vikingfan]

Actually, that list I took was straight from iLord, I just copied and pasted. Go back and take a look if you like.

And I was rezzed last night (thank you to whoever rezzed me) and took twitchy.

vote ani

. I heard noise, needless to say. So that explains why evilsnail found me bloody.

That is BS. You were already bloody when you were investigated because investigation comes before murder. Good try.

Vote vikingfan

Go back and look again. rezz comes before investigate.

[vikingfan]

I wonder if snail even investigated me at all. it'd be easy for scum (particularly cult) to throw out an investigation and hope it sticks. I find it amazing that someone like rewq is so quick to believe him without considering all the facts.

[vikingfan]

I wonder if snail even investigated me at all. it'd be easy for scum (particularly cult) to throw out an investigation and hope it sticks. I find it amazing that someone like rewq is so quick to believe him without considering all the facts.

Oh lol.

You've already conceded that you're bloody. What is this about?

What do you mean? I'm bloody because I've been rezzed. I just find it interesting that people are so quick to believe him.

[vikingfan]

ME ME!
Viking, vote for me plz.

any reason why?

[vikingfan]

Why can't he be murderer?

I communed him last night when I had 0 insanities and he was not more insane than me.

I'd need to look back at your PoE and see how likely I think SOG is to be there. Behaviorally, I don't like how quiet he's been, which was the main reason for me investigating him last night.

Who do you think is cleared from being Cultist? I don't need reasons necessarily at this point, I'd just like to see your list.

SOG raises a valid point about murderers hiding actions...though if we can cripple them with grave robbing that could at least someone counterbalance the effective, especially if vikingfan flips as our leading murderer.

@vikingfan - speaking of which, where are you? You have nothing to say? You want to be lynched today?

back, had a busy couple days. At this point, I have no alternative explanation though I will say it's surprising how quickly evilsnail is accepted as fact. Keep in mind wick could have rezzed me as well.

If people have anything to ask me that could help me clear my name, I'd appreciate it.