Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[iLord]

Should we designate graverobbers tonight or should we let the bodies linger until tomorrow?

Letting the bodies linger is good. We probably have 2 Murderer's from among the people we blocked tonight, and we can try and block them again tomorrow night.

[iLord]

Magua, somethings don't add up on your list. you think Ani's cleared because of rewq, than he can't be the 2-time murderer. If you think VP's cleared because of me, than I can't be the murderer. Chaco also murdered N2, so he can't have murdered N3. evilsnail also apparently investigated VF last night, so there's little chance he's the murderer as well.

VF's probably the 2-time murderer, so we shouldn't have to worry too much about Murder Win Con's, especially since there's at least 2 of them alive, not counting VF.

Vote: VikingFan

*twitch*

[iLord]

I support murderers claiming.

[iLord]

Because if you didn't have twitchy, then you would stil get the infraction. And since you do, and you didn't twitch, it's 1 less Infraction towards loosing a Ngith Action (if you forget) and town loses an Action.

Percy said that he'll give infractions to people trying to fake twitchy?

[iLord]

But not getting one means you have it, just as much as getting one for not doing it means you have it.

I must be being absolutely thick right now, but I don't understand.

If I add twitch, how can you tell whether I have the insanity or I'm just faking?

I don't believe Percy is going to give insanity infractions to people that don't have twitchy, but put *twitch* in their votes anyway.

[iLord]

Hmm, that's a thought. What do you guys think about making Chaco grave rob tonight?

[iLord]

Ani, great minds think alike (or something) because I investigated DGB too, same thing obv. To reiterate, this makes DGB somewhat not-Murderer (and certainly not the sort of Murderer we're most worried about right now, because she's been taking the time to Launder), and as Kunk said very not-Cult because Sly was pushing so hard for her yesterday.

Did I miss what you're agreeing to here? You are saying that DGB was not bloody, correct?

[iLord]

I heard noise last night.

semi, you don't think blocking Chaco is worth it tonight?

[iLord]

Better way to keep a tab on Chaco:
Investigate him. If he laundered last night he will be clean and can't kill tonight anyway. If he hasn't laundered yet, we will force him to launder instead of rob graves tonight. This takes away his night action while both keeping the utility of un-dusted corpses as well as adding the utility of having one less bloody player (or the benefit of catching a murderer)

What makes this more effective on Chaco than on any other murderer?

[iLord]

Because Chaco admitted to a successful murder and knows that he will be investigated if we take this route.

Make sense.

[iLord]

OK, so if we kill him, and he's cultist, we can kill you?

Oh lol - you're lucky that Adel was town.

[iLord]

I don't trust semi.

[iLord]

So you believe him to be cult then? He's absolutely not murderer.

Why can't he be murderer?

It's not really of a matter that I suspect him for behavioral or mechanical tells, it's more through the process of elimination. We've cleared a lot of people from being Cultists and there's still probably at least 3 of them floating around, so it stands to reason that anyone left has a pretty high chance of being cultist.

I suggest VP do the killing. I communed him and he has 0 Insanities.

[iLord]

The one from my ISO #126, modified with regards to recent events:

(

Cultist

,

CultistorMurderer

,

NotCultistMaybeMurderer

,

LikelyTown

,

StrongNonMurdererTown

):

dramonic

DrippingGoofball

Fetish

Ellibereth

Day 2 Behavior shift

Chaco

Warding + Behavior

kunkstar7 (Drench)

Percy Choice

evilsnail

Investigating

semioldguy

Commune

Magua (Amished)

Commune? I don't remember.

Plum (Sarag)

Rezzing

animorpherv1

Confirmed

Furcolow (Hayker (Adel))

Adel Behavior

VP Baltar

Warding + Behavior + Commune

rewq455 (Faraday)

Behavior

[iLord]

Pretty sure he was said to have been communed by dramonic, so take that with a grain of salt if you think dramonic is likely cult.

Results were 0 insanities on N1, which is consistent with what Magua has stated.

Eh, okay. We should still definitely lynch the green and red names before the blueish ones.

Two questions
Why am I cult?
Why do you think Chaco is murderer? It seems pretty incompatible with warding to me <<

POE, really.

Chaco's already committed a kill - that's all that section really means, with the exception of ani.

I don't get why that's incompatible.

-------------------------------------

Vikingfan probably murdered E_K last night. He's probably not murdering tonight. What do you guys think about lynching DGB today, and then lynching VF tomorrow?

[iLord]

iLord and I should stalk some of the more suspicious people and kill them tomorrow, my suggestion would be Ellibereth and dram. Lynching vikingfan still seems like a good idea.

Anyone see faults with this plan other than the hiding murders thing? Personally, I think it'd be very dumb for a murderer to kill one of the named targets because it is going to confirm hypo-cult iLord or I, which seems counterproductive to their goal of surviving and more likely to lead to their own lynch the next day.

I'm down with killing Elli and dram.

I do believe that DGB needs to die, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

What happens if Cult wards cultElli/cultDram?

[iLord]

Furcolow, just save us all the headache and don't go stalking anyone yet. We still have to work out whether or not any townies should be stalking right now.

Hmm, good point. Damn. I guess the only thing we can do to prevent that is to tie up would be cult with grave robbings. Additionally, however, this would basically confirm them as cult. So while it'd delay their deaths by a day or two, they are basically outting themselves if they survive the killing night.

Could be something I'm missing though. This is why talking is good.

Cult could easily ward a noncult just to score a mislynch, then. Just because our stalk failed doesn't mean that the target's necessarily cult.

[iLord]

The problem with this is if we chose a town target then cult would just ward to make us think they are scum being protected. I think that's what iLord was saying originally.

Yeah, this is what I meant.

@Furcolow: I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but just don't try stalking right now. You have a batchful of equipment. Look at Kunkstar's chart and come up with something helpful to do with those. If you have time, looking over the game thread would be nice as well.

[iLord]

no, you're not being rude at all. you have been, but this post is a breath of fresh air. i am at a loss for who to use any of this shit on, though. i would love some suggestions.

Furcolow - I would say the best option is to rezz iLord tonight and we'll see where we are at tomorrow. If you stalking and killing is the best option, then the town will have you do it, but if it's not then we won't have you do it. No big. We'll see what the cards look like after tonight.

Isn't someone already rezzing me or something? Shouldn't he rezz you?

@iLord/kunk - Yeah, that occured to me later, but if the cult want to waste their night actions warding people in hopes of a mislynch, so be it I guess. I dunno though, maybe the killing plan isn't very effective if announced. I'll see if I can think of something better.

Giving up one night action to get a mislynch is a good deal for Cult - I think we need to find a better plan.

So, you essentially want to lose the game for yourself? Also, as you said, we'd have to waste a lynch. I don't see how this makes sense....that is of course unless you are a murderer who is close your win con.

Yeah, Kunkstar, don't do this. Not only is it arguably against "play to win," it also doesn't seem to to net us any extra kills.

If you keep talking, kunkstar, i'm going to stalk and kill you.

Don't do it.

A duplicate of this post, and a request to remove said duplicate, have been removed.

[iLord]

Factoid:

If we take for a fact that murderers won't lie to confirm other players, the one who killed Elvis is either viking or rewq.
thoughts?

Why rewq?

[iLord]

@rewq: I see no reason to lynch Furcolow over vikingfan today. Why would you even suggest that Furcolow might be a better lynch than VF?

I'm reading rewq as fairly strong clueless town.

[iLord]

Also, please relax. This is just a game and you are likely to get called scum at one point or another. It's not the end of the world. You'll probably end up getting investigated in one way or another and then be cleared. Happened to me last night even though I think I've played a VERY pro-town game throughout. no big.

To be fair, wicked yesterday made me realize that all I really had on you was behavioral evidence. And you're most definitely good enough to fakecontribute or actually contribute as scum. Warding on N0 would be a small price for you to pay to get lots of town cred. Really, I just had to set my mind at ease, because I sure as hell wasn't going to be able to read you through behavior.

[iLord]

Furcolow, if you stalk tonight, we lynch you tomorrow. No questions asked. Everyone else, bear with me.

[iLord]

I won't stalk, but I'm also not going to rez ilord, so you all can go ahead and kill him

Good idea. Rez

someone

, though.

[iLord]

[quote=VP]@furcolow- the thing is that if you use your rezz pack on iLord and no one targets him, he still lives and you don't lose your rezz pack. It's a win-win situation other than you gaining an insanity. I really want iLord alive right now and I'd be pretty pissed if he died tonight, so all WIFOM aside, rezz him. [/quote]

Quite honestly, I don't think he's likely to listen to anyone at this point. There's loads of other people with rez packs floating around - like rewq can rez me tonight. As long a furcolow rezzes someone, it's better than him going maverick and stalking or something.

[iLord]

warding will prevent him from being stalked tonight, thus guaranteeing that he won't die tomorrow night.

Rezzing me kind of made sense because I heard noise, but there's a number of players that DGB can ward so as to not put all of our eggs in one basket. In fact, there's likely to be a lot of stalking going on tonight by our other murderers, so warding may be a good option for other players that don't have much to do as well.

[iLord]

Plum is da scumz. I used my Occult Books on her last night and she was more insane than me.

I took Compulsion as my insanity since I shouldn't need to launder anyhow.

I heard noise, but that could have been from DGB.

Who robbed vikingfan's grave last night? I thought we were leaving that for today.

Vote: Plum

*Twitch*

lol, I thought you were hitting furcolow. I Communed Plum as well and got the same result.

One of the murderer's probably grave-robbed. We still have 3 townie bodies though, so we could cross-rob with 3 people tonight still. Dram, Elli, and DGB?

[iLord]

Oh yeah, farside needs to claim all night actions immediately, methinks.

[iLord]

Dram, what are you ranting about? Did you investigate furcolow last night?

[iLord]

Oh, and I picked Distraction for my insanity.

We probably should've waited for Plum to claim his actions first .

[iLord]

Dram, you didn't answer my question: What'd you do last night?

[iLord]

What did you do N0 and N1?

[iLord]

I'm thinking ani was probably stalked. Regardless, we should be able to stop the kill with the graverob tonight. We get a lynch and three blocks, and there should be only two murderer's left.

[iLord]

I still want to know what happened to me several nights ago when I heard Noise as well.

Wait, this isn't on Kunk's chart. When did you here noise?

[iLord]

Mind if I catch up first? Instead of holding the mod up too much waiting on me I used the commune and just picked DGB figuring if anyone was more insane then me it would be her.

Unfortunately, no. I'm going to have to ask you to claim right now, before you read.

[iLord]

Ani, you got investigated by rewq Night 2. That'd explain the noise then.

[iLord]

Your slot is under suspicion. This will either clear you or damn you and the more you stall, the worse it looks. Claim in your next post.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to be doing this (especially since farside was nice enough to replace into a 92 page game), but I guess we gotta do what we gotta do . It doesn't look good at all that farside stalled.

[iLord]

We have too many people to lynch and not enough lynches. Would we rather lynch Murderer today or Cultist?

[iLord]

farside, why did you look at Chaco in iso after VP and I told you to claim?

[iLord]

To see if there was a valid reason why you were asking for my claims.

Wouldn't it make more sense to look at my ISO? Or the actual game thread?

Isn't it conventional to ask replacements for night actions so we can see if they correlate with their predecessor?

[iLord]

Not if I want to see if my predecessor already claimed and now I want to try and figure out why your asking for me to claim something he already claimed.

Isn't the reason why I want you to claim something your predecessor already claimed obvious/conventional?

[iLord]

Just a word of caution - no lynching Plum until she comes and claims.

No offense when I state this but I really find people who try to trip up a replacement to claim when their predessor already claim the lowest form of scum hunting. You want to lynch me because my predessor claimed already and you want to see if I claimed something different.
No matter what you think about me as a player I really despise people that take advantage of a player that replaces in.

I completely understand how you're feeling. Unfortunately, if you were town, you wouldn't see this quite as lowly or debilitating as you do now. I can't in good mind encourage you to dedicate the time to read the thread in its entirety, as I fear not many players will listen to you at this point.

Since my intent is now made clear, if only to humor me, can you list all your night actions and when you gained what insanities?

[iLord]

possibly the worst breadcrumbed message in history, but i wanted to rez without scum knowing

Your sanity relieves me.

[iLord]

/facepalm.

VP, can you look at this post and tell me how many insanities Plum should have?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 92#2205092

[iLord]

...


ok. kunk has her listed as one, which was why I Communed her. So, if the chart is right, the max she should have today is two if she took some action last night that would pick one up.

I believe Kunk's chart was incorrect - she should have 1 from rezzing, and 1 from the fetish she received at the very least, in addition to whatever insanity-gaining action she might've taken last night. Our night actions were useless .

[iLord]

Crap, that's right. I need to look back and fact check then. I still don't like that Plum hasn't showed up in this thread in any significant way in a long time, but we could have definitely wasted our night actions.

That's right - Percy, can you prod Plum please?

[iLord]

Hey guys.

There goes my plan to stalk and murder Chaco-Farside. And it seems it was a pretty good one too, considering the fact that Percy is quite clear with giving a replacement the predecessors actions, as I know from experience; the only half-decent excuse of hers, that she's seen people give false replacing-in info as Town has got to be complete bull. So we can lynch her now if you like or let me kill her, whatever works for you.

And I took Taboo: Launder. I was never interested in spending a Night Laundering once I got Bloody anyway, so.

This baffles me. Why did you stalk Chaco?

Why didn't you post/tell us?

[iLord]

There are only three town actions that could cause Plum to have more insanities than VP and iLord, assuming the following:

o VP and iLord have 1 insanity.
o Commune insanity resolves afterward.
o Insanities resolve in action list.

Receiving fetish, communing, and being rezzed. First, I'm assuming all commune insanities resolve simultaneously after all the communes, so that is negated. I highly doubt that she received a fetish if she claims that, seeing as she already got one. So if someone rezzed her(which I also doubt), they need to claim. Therefore she must have more than 1 insanity to begin with, or stalked, murdered, or ritual'ed last night.

Any and all holes you see in this, please tell me, because this is kind of confusing really .

I'm not sure I quite follow you here - Plum both successfully rezzed and got a fetish. Isn't that already 2 insanities, which is more than VP and me?

Someone stalking another person who claimed to murder someone sounds like a murderer to me. Murderers only have to worry about staying alive and eliminating other murderers. Town and cult don't really matter to them.

Arguing to keep an anti-town member alive is not wise. There is no way to prove or ensure that a second murderer didn't piggyback a kill on elvis_knits and already has two kills.

First part is a good point.

The second I sort of disagree with - Plum almost definitely cannot win (As Chaco/Farside is on a different time scale than the other murderers, both Farside and Chaco could not be one of the two murderers we likely blocked on the night we graverobbed, so there's likely two other murderers out there), and she could not have piggy-backed on the E_K kill because you had just killed starttransmission the night prior.

Farside is definitely likely enough to be scum, so I see no reason to not let Plum finish off Farside, and then we can lynch/graverobblock her as necessary.

I don't see why, of all the pool of available targets, Plum would choose to stalk Chaco. Chaco's off-pattern-kill and claim to the town are pretty townish, so I don't understand why that choice of target above Furcolow, rewq, Kunkstar, Ellibereth, dramonic, or DGB, for instance, all of whom I rate as scummier than Chaco/Farside. Even if Plum is a murderer, you'd want to hit other possible murderers, of which Chaco would be a very low target. Either way, it makes little sense to me.

Just a note, you throwing rewq and Furcolow's name into the mix is pretty scummy - at this point, we've got the scum pretty nailed down to a small group of people and it's in the best interest of the scum to expand said list so that there stands more chance of mislynches. I sincerely doubt that anyone can believe that either of those two are likely scum at this point, in both regards to behavior and night actions.

I don't think that Plum has two kills already, so I'm inclined to let her finish her kill to prove non-cultness, and then make her rob graves.

Agreed.

iLord post 86 did you really think that morph would admit to this as scum? Why was it scummy in your view?

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and slightly more experience with Ani's posts, I fully believe more strongly than before that Ani is not dumb enough to have thought the thought process he claimed. I'm thinking that Ani planned to go murderer from the start (whether for the thrill or because he believed it to be far likelier than it actually was), but then was oppressed/convinced by the town not to go murderer.

It's scummy because he's covering up something/lying?

[iLord]

@iLord
You don't gain insanity for resuscitating someone else, only for being resuscitated.

Ah - you're correct.

By the way I never received a message that I heard noise so Pom's lying her little butt off if she says she stalked me last night.

vote: Pom
LaL

lol, this is nice. Plum, what say you?

[iLord]

If I had stalked more then one person I would say lynch me know and kill me, but that is not the case and as I said each insanity I have is provable.

Chaco/you could've grave robbed at any time and picked up another insanity.

[iLord]

In practice Taboo(Launder) is an unprovable insanity. From what I remember Chaco's kill of start was a "vigkill". The main reason your slot is under suspicion is because of the claimed kill which leads to murderer and unstated night actions, also the lurking didn't help much.

Actually, I wasn't that suspicious of Chaco because the Start kill was quite appropriate. Asking farside immediately to claim was just a precaution, and now I really don't like how she reacted .

[iLord]

I saw he claimed N0, N1 and N2 so I was a bit suspicious on why I was asking to reclaim everything all over again.
It's typically as I said a town tactic or a scum tactic. (null) but it's not one I will ever fall for and will curse out the player trying to think he can one up a replacement. And will get chewed out by me.

The morality of my tactic I fear will have to be discussed postgame. But I don't mind you spewing thoughts in thread. If anything, it's more stuff for you to be analyzed through - we can't lose from it and anyone that wants to can just ignore it.

[iLord]

Is kunkstar a murderer?

We don't know. Are you a cultist?

[iLord]

farside22, what made you think to claim that you heard noise?

[iLord]

@farside: Don't worry about it - I was just confused. For some reason I thought that plum claimed she got stalked a lot earlier. Regardless, it's pretty evident at least one of you is scum - we just need to wait for Plum to respond. At the rate she's been posting, that may take a few days >_>.

[iLord]

ilord post 816 why is elli as confirmable as ani?

If he killed CSL, then he would be confirmed not cultist, just like ani.

iLord post 1073 why did sajin's post behavior bother you here?

This is expanded on the next page - it felt like Sajin was trying to buddy up or look town off of SlySly's very apparently weak point.

I still haven't got to the case on chaco. Anyone want to some up what the charges are?

There are none?

[iLord]

I haven't caught up. I was told when I got in that I was replacing a scummy spot. I would like to know what the case is? Is this really difficult? Should I ask the mod to include a rule that states that players can not be dick's to replacements?

I'm not trying to be annoying - there's legitly no real behavioral case against your slot prior to you replacing in. Simply because he murdered, we are concerned that Chaco may have taken Psychopathy somewhere along the line.

Dunno. I thought Murdering as a Vig once would be an okay idea, more Town-controlled kills &c., and that as it's clear that no Murderer would start out Stalking Night 4 it wouldn't end up misleading the Town. Obviously as Farside says she didn't hear Noise she is some form of scum, so now I am very confident that it was a good idea in all but the fact that it got exposed as it did; in any case I'll be sick if she's not lynched tomorrow because she lied. Don't forget this: Farside lied about not hearing any Noise to neutralize the threat of dying as scum for as long as she could, but it's a 1-for-1 so I'm happy to deal with it. Get rid of Dram once she's gone, please, for old times sakes.

Vote: Farside22

*twitch*

Doubt my wagon will get derailed now, but placeholder for my top suspect and I'd certainly be happy if the wagon, against all odds, got off the ground today.

I'm inclined to believe Farside. Plum's logical - she would've discussed with the town about stalking (Especially since a similar plan was under discussion yesterday), rather than just go rogue and decide to murder.

Plum did, however, rez Adel/Hayker/Furcolow, so that's making me a little hesitant to believe that cultist did this, but if farside is scum, she'd be murderer, and I see no reason for a murderer to stick her head out on the line for any reason like this by lying, since it'll invariably result in her lynch tomorrow.

I'd vote, but I took Distraction, so I'll wait until after consensus.

[iLord]

iLord: Yes, but if I'm not lynched Farsie is apt to be Murdered by me tonight. As a Murderer I would expect her to stick her neck out of she thought it might give her a chance to survive any longer at all.

Actually, that is a good point. Why did you decide to stalk without discussing with the town and why did you not voice any opinion when VP and I were discussing the possibility of designating town members to stalk and murder?

[iLord]

I hadn't replaced in when the discussion you're talking about took place, iLord; in fact, because I had minimal patience for skimming 50 pages of stuff, I didn't read much of what happened before I replaced in except for isoing players and the like.

You've been in the game for the entirety of the last day, correct? this discussion took place during the second half of the last day, if I recall correctly.

I stalked without discussing things with the Town because the thought didn't occur to me until Night fell and I realized that the Forensic Tools weren't as useful as I'd thought they would be - I thought about investigating Dram (the only person claimed clean who I suspected that much) but as he was already on my list of players to lynch I thought I might advance everything by lynching him today and Murdering Chaco-Farside tonight.

Have you been following this game?

[iLord]

I don't think furcolow should be rezzed tonight. Sorry buddy, I think you're town but if you do get murdered tonight it would probably benefit the town.

Don't furcolow, I don't think you're useless. Just don't go rogue on us, and even if you die, you'll have contributed to the town win. Typically getting nightkilled in a game is sort of an honor, because you realize that the scum thought you were enough of a threat to warrant spending their kill on you to silence you - think about it this way.

[iLord]

how the fuck does an investigator dying BENEFIT THE TOWN?

you make 0 sense

In a vacuum, an investigator dying is bad. But if we had to choose a player to die, would you not agree that it's better you than a more experienced player?

Yes I am.

I don't believe you are at this point. An interesting exercise from your perspective would be to list who you think are the scum we have left. We've mostly hit upon you through POE, so I'm quite interested to see who you put in your place.

It is also in the best interests of the scum to constrain a list so that it does not contain all the scum. Two can play that game!

Of course, but in this case, I believe that your extensions are weak. I was merely explaining the scum motivation for adding such extensions.

And in all seriousness, I'm coming to believe that Adel was probably planning to go murderer based on the plans with the mass vigging. Replaced out before that could happen, but there you go. Furcolow's fascination with murdering and avoidance of grave robbing just makes me sad.

Can't see murderer Adel replacing out because the town wouldn't follow his plan.

I've got to mull over the farside v Plum thing. Too many arguments and I don't have them straight in my head.

I'd much prefer to lynch DGB today, and let Plum carry out the kill.

If I decided against farside, this sounds like a better alternative than lynching farside directly.

@Magua - I think the bigger issue with Plum is the disparity in her claimed insanities, which is yet to be explained.

Wait, am I missing something here?

2) We've been doing incredibly well with the lynches so far, so I'm not feeling the need to drive a wagon.

Can you clarify what you mean here?

[iLord]

Her lying about the number of insanities she actually has, as proven by our communes.

Wait, I'm still missing something here - our communes say that she has to have at least two insanities, right?

[iLord]

Yes. But she should have only had one because the rezz didn't give her one, remember?

Oh yeah, I remember?

[iLord]

Actually her insanity count is explainable, as per her "stalking" you. If she stalked you, then she has two insanities, which is why VP and iLord got a more than result. So I'm not ignoring that.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but it looked like VP was going for tricking Plum or something. Eh, whatever.

[iLord]

Ugh, no time to put into this game.

I still haven't decided between Plum and Farside, and so, it'd be infinitely preferable to have Plum murder Farside. Unfortunately, if Farside ends up alive still, we don't know if Farside was rezzed or Plum was lying =/.

I don't think we're behind any if farside doesn't die tomorrow, so at worst we'd just be a in situation like today. At best, night actions could possibly tell us way more. I'm up for lynching DGB, having Plum vig farside, and then having Elli, Magua, and kunkstar graverob (We could technically do one more person, but I'd rather save the body, since I can't see anyone else who would be good).

[iLord]

If farside's scum, then she won't bother to rob the grave as she's dying anyway.

If farside's town, we don't want her to waste the body.

I was thinking something along those lines - I might've missed something, though.

[iLord]

DGB's scum. I'm leaning Cultist.

I see no problem with the Grave-Robbing order.

[iLord]

If he robs graves, he'll have 7/8 Insanitiies, and no guarantee he doesn't choose Psycopathy as one of them, since he only has 1 left after.

TownKunk going murderer at this point would be suicide in regards to completing his win condition. He'll take whatever insanities he has to take to avoid Psychopathy.

[iLord]

Yeah, dram is right here. There needs to be cross robbing on all bodies and a body should not be robbed by more than two people.

Ooph, misread that. Kunkstar, why'd you setup the bodies the way you did (Like wicked being robbed 3 times?)

[iLord]

its a way for scum to get to keep their action because they just followed the plan which was "typoed"
Duh.

You're suppose to wait for him to answer first - now he's just going to steal your answer.

[iLord]

VP, what do you think about having all of the grave robbers take Avolition?

[iLord]

[quote="VP"]Eh maybe, do we plan to test it for each of them?

I need to think about the numbers and whether or not those votes may be necessary in three days' time if we don't end up lynching them. [quote]

Aye, you're right - Testing would be a pain.

I was just thinking that we likely don't want/need them to have their vote, and if they take it tonight, the game'll probably be over before they regain it.

[iLord]

I mean, testing isn't going to be THAT bad for it. just a matter of getting someone to L-1 and then having each of the attempt to hammer. I'm more concerned about preventing the murderers from voting if they're in that group. They want to kill the cultists and other murderers as much as the investigators do, so crippling them isn't necessarily helpful to the overall cause of lynching scum. Conversely, if the rest of the cult is in that group, then limiting them makes them basically useless at day and night.

I certainly don't see how the rest of the cult can't be with that group and maybe Plum, but eh, it's just a thought. Sort of low-benefit low-risk.

[iLord]

Taking out the players that are likely town, we have:

dramonic
Elli
DGB
Kunk
Magua

farside
Plum

Assuming we're not lynching farside, plum, or dramonic, we have Elli, DGB, Kunk, and Magua. Elli and Kunk can't really be Cultist, so for the three cultists left, we have maybe plum, dramonic, DGB, and Magua. With 4 players and 3 of them scum, we've got incredible chances there.

For the murderers, we have maybe farside, Elli, Kunk, and whoever isn't cultist from the above. Probably two out of the four are murderers, and all except farside are not getting an action tonight and are probably on their first kill only.

I have a fairly strong town behavioral read on rewq - I'd be very surprised if he flipped scum of any sort.

[iLord]

SOG was communed for 0 insanities, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only logical way that CSL could've had two insanities on Day 2 as cult is if he Ritual'd on N1 and we rezzed N1. That's what I was using to backup that Elli actually attempted the murder on CSL N1.

[iLord]

Alright, that makes sense enough.

Do you really think DGB would bus as much as she did if she were cult? I dunno, I find it hard to believe that'd she'd camp on multiple buddies like that just for cred when she's clearly not trying in this game anyhow.

What about lynching Magua today and have DGB rob tonight?

I'd take the Magua lynch instead.

@iLord- Yeah, so SOG had his sanities verified by me and thus can't be murderer, but what about cult? He was early enough on Nicodemus (I need to look at specifics there), but was later on CSL and didn't even vote when SlySly was lynched.

I just really want to be careful that we're not clearing people who shouldn't be cleared.

Hmm, you're right here. I thought I saw something else too, but I can't seem to remember, so I'll look back tomorrow morning.

[iLord]

I looked back at semi in ISO, and I can't find whatever I was thinking of. There's some behavioral points in his favor, but just as many scum behavior posts.

Semi, can you claim all your night actions if you have not already done so?

[iLord]

Consider it done. I believe you're town so I don't have objections.

No, if you're not being lynched, you're graverobbing.

[iLord]

I'm against any of the Grave-Robbers taking avolition.

If none of our lynch and graverobbers are cultists we end up ridiculously close to a LyLo case, three days in a row.

I seriously doubt that that's the case.

So I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I'm going to be alive tomorrow I hope you have a really good explanation why.

PLEASE DO NOT TARGET ME FOR A REZ TONIGHT. I DID NOT HEAR A NOISE.

I don't get what you mean by the first part.

The point of this was to test for the scenario that Plum is investigator telling the truth. Tomorrow, we'll be in the same situation as today, minus one possibility.

[iLord]

So do I, but the risk/reward isnt worth it.

Yeah, like I said, low-risk low-reward. Not a big deal either way.

You stated that if I'm scum I won't bother robbing graves.
Since I'm town you don't want me wasting the bodies. I feel like well I'm damned if I waste them and I'm damned if I don't do it with that statement.

To be clear, you are not to rob bodies tonight.

Since I will be alive tomorrow what explanation will you have for that? How is it the same situation today?

It's not up to me to provide an explanation - it'd be up to Plum, likely. And in all likelihood, your stories will contradict once more and we'll still be in the same position where one of you must be scum. Right now I don't want to lynch either of you on the chance that Plum's investigator with a stalk on you, we'd have wasted a lynch no matter whether we choose to lynch her or you.

[iLord]

If no one Rez's me and they should not then how will there be a contradiction? If someone says they rez'ed me they should be lynched too.

Plum has to claim that you were rezzed, if you are still alive tomorrow.

[iLord]

iLord, what would be your opinion if Plum claimed that she attempted the kill but apparently Farside was rezzed, and someone else claims the rez? What would you think of Plum, Farside, and the claimed rezz'er?

Rezzer would be Cultist. Plum could not be Cultist at that point, and Farside is would likely be Cultist (It doesn't make too much sense for the scum to save the death of an Investigator/Murderer and then have us mislynch that same player. It's sort of the same deal with CSL).

[iLord]

I don't get you at all. Why are you giving excuses for tomorrow if you believe Plum today.

You honestly baffle me just as much. Weren't you the one who asked me about tomorrow and the contradiction?

And this makes less sense considering that myself and chaco both claimed to the kill on Start.

That's a good point - I see what Kunk was getting at here. It won't make little sense for Cult to rezz you as either Town or Murderer, but you almost definitely are not Cultist because of the start kill. If you're alive tomorrow, things are not looking good for Plum.

And back in Kunk's scenario, I'd mark the rezzer as illogical, Plum as a murderer, and farside as town/murderer.

[iLord]

Magua, how likely do you think DGB is scum?

[iLord]

I am way behind, but I now have time. Catching up from where I left off.

[iLord]

Notes while skimming over:

semi's probably not cult or murderer.

DGB may be cult still.

farside's probably not cult. And probably not a murderer that's going to win anytime soon.

Percy, what will your put as the manner of death if a player were to be the target of the ritual and murder? I assume murder, because that resolves first?

kunkstar is probably not cult. And probably not a murderer that's going to win anytime soon.

Dramonic is murderer?

Where did the cult kill go last night?

Possible Murderer (1 left):

Ellibereth
farside22

Probably Town:

rewq455
semioldguy
VP Baltar
animorpherv1
kunkstar7
Furcolow

Probably Cult (2 left):

DrippingGoofball
Magua

Dramonic lost his action last night so we can lynch him tomorrow. One of Elli or farside is the last murderer, but they've grave robbed so much that they're not likely to be able to win anytime soon.

There's probably two cultists left. And conveniently, there's two in the probably cult column. I'd be satisfied with either lynch.

Who did we have rob which graves last night?

This is kind of rushed - more later.

[iLord]

I'm short two murders, soonest I can win is night 10.

Just because you can't win does not stop you from doing things that hurt the town. We're not sure which of Elli or farside is the last murderer, but you've conveniently came out and claimed.

[iLord]

DGB's almost trying to be lynched. VP, you still think she's town?

[iLord]

^^^Here the scum pretend not be scum together^^^

[iLord]

@semi: Would you rather hit murderer today or cultist today?

[iLord]

Ani, I'm afraid I don't get what you're trying to say there.

[iLord]

I'll take Magua, Elli, or DGB. It looks like Magua has the most support right now, so that's probably where we're heading today.

[iLord]

@Magua: How many mislynches do you reckon the town can afford?

[iLord]

@semi: Because lynching cult today helps town more than lynching murderer today.

[iLord]

@semi: We have 4 must-lynch players right now: Dramonic, DGB, Magua, and Elli. We're stuck between a rock and several hard places right now.

[iLord]

That would have to be weighed against the probability that he would likely get to murder someone as well unless he was already stalked last night.

Dramonic lost his night action last night - he's not killing anyone tonight.

[iLord]

I think VP Baltar was talking about the potential of stalking him tonight and murdering tomorrow night, which would have to be weighed against us still potentially losing someone else.

Ah, that's true. We've still got loads of other valid targets though.

[iLord]

I'm not understanding your issue SOG. We want dram dead, so murdering him seems to be the fast track to that and we'd get to lynch tomorrow.

I think what he's saying here is that trying to murder Dram will give Dram enough time to pull off another murder. Dram and his killer would both stalk tonight, and then both would get to murder on Night 7.

[iLord]

Hey VP, how important do you think is the body that Dram is going to rob tonight?

[iLord]

I don't want dram to rob the lynch today if it's not him. Also, people should vote Magua. I would like to win this game some time this century.

Dram will rob the grave tonight, you realize?

[iLord]

Then let's lynch him.

How about this, we lynch murderer-dram today and then I stalk/murder my choice of Magua/Ellibereth/Furcolow/SOG. There is some risk that we'd try to run up the same person i'm going to murderer, but I think it can be avoided easily enough. Optimally, iLord and I would both stalk/murder over the next two nights to really up the body count so we can knee cap the remaining scums, but that's harder to do without coordinating in thread.

Sounds good to me. I may or may not stalk tonight, and you should definitely stalk one of the above.

We ready to lynch Dram?

[iLord]

Dramonic will spite graverob the player we lynch today.

Vote Dramonic

*twitch*

[iLord]

So?

We want to keep the bodies.

[iLord]

I didn't say that

[iLord]

lol Dram, let's try and lynch ani today, mkay?

[iLord]

lol Dram, let's try and lynch ani today, mkay?

[iLord]

Ani, why did your vote on Dram fail?

[iLord]

FFFFFF. Stupid Paranoia.

Hence why Dram needs to wagon you

[iLord]

Whatever, it looks like we're just going to have to wait 5 more days for the deadline >_>

[iLord]

Hey, DGB, it'd help if you voted the claimed murderer.

[iLord]

But if he wanted to murder, say, iLord, that would be a good thing.

Yes, my brilliance has keenly prevented me from getting murdered. I'll be signing autographs after the game.

[iLord]

Magua gave the only answer he could, else we could've afforded mislynching on him and still won the game lol. He saw where I was going with that question.

[iLord]

Yeah, Elli's a murderer I think. Regardless, I do believe he's tomorrow's lynch so it's all cool.

ONLY VP IS STALKING TONIGHT IF HE SO CHOOSES.

With victory this close, we don't need random kills flying around at this point >_>.

If we just play it safe, I think town win is assured.

[iLord]

VP, who are we lynching today?

[iLord]

I'm bloody still.

[iLord]

VP, you okay with lynching Magua?

[iLord]

Okay, just checking that Magua wasn't your stalk target.

I'm perfectly happy with his lynch today then. I don't recommend claiming your stalk target, if you have one.

Bodies-wise, we don't have enough to stop the Murderer kill tonight and we just lost a whole bunch of rez-kits. Those that still have those should use them wisely. Don't be afraid to launder if your bloody so that you can pick up another rez kit later on.

[iLord]

Ani, you'll have to launder first.

[iLord]

Warding tonight won't be as helpful, since the murderer is killing tonight, rather than stalking. You might want to launder if you want to pick up rez packs later, or you can decide to do something else.

[iLord]

Why would a player chose not to launder knowing about the chaos?

I didn't realize that we were so close to chaos. That's even more incentive for those who can launder to do so tonight, if you have no better immediate action.

Doesn't VP have Taboo: Launder?

[iLord]

Forgot that we get whoever we lynch's body too.

I would prefer to have Elli graverob tonight, then - he's probably the last murderer.

[iLord]

my biggest concern right now is that someone like rewq or kunk is scum outside of the target range.

I think it's far more likely for Magua, DGB, and Elli to be the remaining scum. I'd be much more comfortable eliminating them first rather than moving on to people like Kunk and rewq.

Elli is picture perfect murderer, behavior wise. Notice how his interest in the game has almost faded entirely - how else would you expect a murderer who was repeatedly forced to be RB'd to feel about his personal investment in this game?

Neither Kunk nor rewq are likely cultist, so by POE, Magua and DGB are likely the last two.

[iLord]

I think lynching Cult is the play here - we can stop Elli's murder tonight with the bodies, and you're correct that we don't have that luxury with the cultists.

Elli robbing tonight and Magua lynch sounds good.

[iLord]

Wait, I just thought of a benefit of lynching the murderer today. Right now we're operating under the assumption that there's only 1 more murderer. And that's partially true - there's likely only one murderer with at least one successful murder alive. But our game plan right now really doesn't deal with any other players who may have Psychopathy, but don't have any successful murders yet.

If we kill Elli today, then as far as we know, all murders are dead. Any additional murder-deaths showing up later will be a red beacon that people like farside/kunkstar/ani need to be reexamined.

I think that the clarity we get from knocking out Elli today is worth it. We still might lost a player tonight, but this way we know exactly how much scum we're dealing with.

[iLord]

Unless someone wants to come out and claim again, I think going for someone who is likely cult is better than going for someone who is likely murderer.

Why?

Question: wasn't it said yesterday that I would be protected over night? Why would the cult target me last night if the KNEW I was going to be rezzed?

This may add credence to the Magua as cult theory. I don't see why scum would waste a kill at this point unless they had a very good reason (gaining much needed town cred).

I need to think some more about the lynching cult vs. lynching murderer question. iLord does bring up a good point, however. Losing one player tonight isn't going to be a huge deal for clarification.

I don't think we lose an extra player. If we lynch Elli, we get the cult kill tonight. If we lynch a cult, we still get either the cult kill or the murder kill. It's a kill tonight either way, but this way we eliminate and make clear an extra variable.

[iLord]

Because forcing a murderer to rob graves is more beneficial than forcing a member of the cult to do so unless we have reason to believe that the murderer is about to win and won't rob the graves anyway. Since cult can coordinate their actions, forcing them to rob graves is less effective than forcing someone who cannot coordinate actions.

See VP's last post. Robbing graves isn't any more productive - either way the lynch and rob collectively can only prevent 1 kill.

The more I talk, the more I'm liking lynching Elli today, over Magua.

[iLord]

Not lynching Furcolow.

Kunk needs to explain very clearly why he has one more insanity than he should.

[iLord]

Actually, farside might be right here.

Let's judge Furcolow's explanation. Perhaps we're giving too much credence to Adel.

[iLord]

Let's see. Adel is a good player but when a player gets replaced out, IMO, you should start thinknig about the person who replaced that person, and not the replacee. I've said in this in many, many games.

I don't see the correlation between "good" and "town."

[iLord]

That's because there is none. I was mentionoing that Adel is a good player, which you seemed to mention yourself.

You misunderstand me - I'm saying that Adel was a player who acted very behaviorally town.

[iLord]

Kunk, why did you commune Elli and Farside?

What did you learn from both communes?

[iLord]

I communed Farside for exactly the reason I said, to gain another insanity to beat dramonic. Farside isn't more insane than me. With 7 insanities I could only vote under extremely restrictive conditions, I can't get a resuscitation kit due to being bloody, and an forensics kit is almost pointless due to the high number of players being bloody. So I set myself an secondary objective to have some personal fun, that objective being the person with the highest insanity count in the game. Since I have occult books I can indefinitely gain insanities at night since I can just commune someone with less insanities to gain an insanity and not lose my occult books.

Yeah, we've found who's robbing bodies tonight.

Still waiting for Furcolow.

[iLord]

Furcolow is town who stalked someone last night.

Furcolow, if you kill someone tonight,

we will kill you

. Stalking is bad, but killing without the town's consent could make us lose the game.

[iLord]

I stil ldon't trust Furxolow.

You CAN'T forget your night action when you check and it's night. I've never done it, and I'm fairly forgetfdul.

He stalked. IIRC, you tried pulling something similar Day 1 with your N0 action.

[iLord]

I can still say I don't trust him....

You don't trust that he's telling the truth?

farside, if you're convinced Kunk's a murderer, we can have him grave rob tonight. An Elli lynch today still sounds good.

Magua's correct that we may allow Furcolow's kill to go through if it's on certain people.

@Magua: If you could suicide right now, would you do so?

[iLord]

Does Elli have the same number or more insanities then Kunk?

Why does it matter?

You know, quite frankly I'm starting to get to the point where all I want is everyone to die except for me, VP, and rewq. I can't tell who's scum, who's dumb, and who's being unhelpful.

[iLord]

Elli may have a vote at least. Kunk can't do shit vote wise that is the difference. I want to see what Elli claims as his insanities and if he can make any vote today.
Lets say for the sake of argument Elli is a murder. I suspect Kunk is a murder. 1 has no vote to speak of. The other does. We have maybe 2 cultist at the most left in the game. I would rather have someone around tomorrow that has a vote that matters to hang a cultist. Wouldnt you?

Elli's absence < Kunk's limitations.

But realistically, I think Elli's more likely to be murderer than Kunk. And that's saying something.

[iLord]

^^^^^This^^^^^^

I'm in agreement here.

I'm sure that Farside won't terribly mind if we lynch Elli instead of Kunk?

[iLord]

*starts making bet with self about cult team left*

Offically not changing my vote till Elli comes into the game to claim sanities and views.

That's fine motivation you're offering there for Elli to post.

[iLord]

Farside, Avolition means that Elli's vote is literally worth nothing for the next two days. You okay with lynching him now?

[iLord]

Could Kunk have been responsible for the last unexplained murder on Night 1?

[iLord]

Drench attempted to murder Hayker and failed due to Plum's resuscitation of him. So no, it can't be unexplained. Unless you think that Plum actually didn't resuscitate Hayker and Hayker was just saying he was rezzed just because he could.

That's what a I thought. That's another strong argument for lynching Elli over Kunk - Kunk's almost definitely not responsible for the only unexplained kill.

[iLord]

if anyone has any questions for me, feel free to ask

Who did you stalk?

[iLord]

Let's do this then.

Vote: Elli

*twitch*

[iLord]

Just to be clear, I want Kunk robbing again tonight.

[iLord]

What to do to your insanities? I don't understand what you mean by that?

Vote restrictions. I think VP has Distraction.

[iLord]

I think you should be safe voting Elli - I've got Distraction too, and I just voted.

[iLord]

Who is robbing apart from kunk?

I don't think we have enough bodies for anyone else.

Remember, launder tonight if you can!

[iLord]

I'm thinking the chances of either Dram or Elli having equipment is pretty low. I'd prefer we just get one person to rob them.

[iLord]

Alternatively, I see where you're going with neither wanting to risk not robbing for fear that the other won't rob as well and both of them would be caught. That actually sounds okay.

[iLord]

DGB?

[iLord]

I'm the least insane here. I'm not sure I want more insanity.

Nope, you ain't sneaking out of this one. No night action for you.

[iLord]

Okay, then, now we just kunk to come in and hammer.

[iLord]

The mod should have sent furclow that info. I'm not bitting right now.

I doubt the mod would do so.

DGB, you're robbing tonight or you're dead tomorrow.

[iLord]

Why? It's information to a replacement. When I got my info from the mod it had all the action that chao did and heard on the sheet.

(which incidentally you didn't disclose when asked >_>)

Did you receive the result PM's of all the actions Chaco took? If you're looking for whether or not furcolow got any information about the nature of his attacker, it'd be in one of those, not the summaries he gives upon request.

[iLord]

Wait, farside, you're asking for what information Furcolow received about his attacker, right? Like in the response PM at the end of night "Oh, you were almost murdered. Additional flavor here."

[iLord]

I agree with VP/farside. The first thing I'd do in a game where I replaced in a game like this is find out how I got those insanities and ask for the PMs! so at the very least, he should have asked for them.

"I want every PM the person I replaced every received" or "I want a summary about everything that includes what I did each night"?

[iLord]

#1 in this game. It gives you more then a summary would, considering how the PM's are in the first post, you could match everything.

I would (in a more normal game) choose #2.

I don't understand - don't you mean that you could match all the PM's from the first post from the summary, and not the other way around?

[iLord]

I don't see any essential information in the town PM's themselves that would not be included in the summary.

[iLord]

The fact that you may need to ask about it anyways if you do the other way makes it better anyways.

I don't understand - what would you need to ask about that's not provided in the summary?

[iLord]

iLord, your wither being really dense or really don't understand, as I can't explain any farther.

There is nothing that would in the PMs. All that is in the PM and not the summary is flavor.

This.

[iLord]

Oh, also, I would like to say a big thanks to iLord. I really enjoyed playing with you and our partnership was pure awesome. I was really sad when you bit the bullet and I think if either of us could have stuck around longer we could have won this one.

Hey! I enjoyed playing with you as well, of course, but I was extremely paranoid the entire time that you were scum trying to buddy up to me. I actually contemplated stalking and killing you instead of DGB just to cover all my bases - I was terrified at the possibility that you could go murderer after no one suspects you and win the game from there. That's part of why I stalked/murdered in secret in the first place - if worst comes to worst, I could take psychopathy and kill the cultists myself.

I thought I did decent early on, but my play obviously deteriorated (Like clearing Semioldguy and murdering DGB) as the game went on. I don't blame anyone really in the endgame - Semioldguy did what was neccessary to alleviate suspicion, and if someone was going to get lynched, it definitely wasn't going to be him.

Great game, Percy, one of the most enjoyable I've played in.

PPE: I like Magua's idea for murderer's above.