Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[semioldguy]

Vote: d3x

[semioldguy]

It was aimed at Killa Seven. If he has a good reason not to vote at all, I'd like to hear it. But of course, in case others refrain from voting, I would like to hear their reasons as well.

Not planning to random vote is not the same as not voting at all.

[semioldguy]

killa seven isn't often or likely to be forced into activity very well. I've learned to make due and find tells with what he does offer. If you force someone to play other than how they would normally play it is likely to cause them to give off unusual vibes that interfere with the read.

[semioldguy]

Unvote; Vote: FC Groningen

I really dislike the way you unvoted. It has a small amount of foul odor.

If you are going to unvote, why not vote someone else?

If you are going to FoS someone, why not just vote him instead?

Could you shed some light on your insight behind why you did this the way you did?

[semioldguy]

Have you previously tried forcing killa seven into activity?

[semioldguy]

Nope, but I notice he is more talkative so far as he has been in previous games. Would you agree?

I don't think he is much more talkative than normal thus far. So, no, I do not agree.

[semioldguy]

I never claimed that it is usual for him not to random vote. I am saying it is usual for him not to participate or post frequently/usefully.

[semioldguy]

Sorry for my absence, will being getting up to speed later today in all my games.

[semioldguy]

Ok...

I believe the masons claim. However, are you two confirmed alignments to each other? Regardless they should be kept alive for now.

Kast's ability is more or less proven.

Hp [leaves]'s claim needs to be completed.

Also, proof of ability is not proof of alignment for any of the above four players (or anyone else)

Unvote; Vote: ReaperCharlie

[semioldguy]

Completely missed page 16.

Why is Lando bulletproof?

[semioldguy]

Clearly because in my catchup I didn't notice the most recent page.

Why do you want to know why I am voting for ReaperCharlie?

[semioldguy]

Generally, I have experienced that unless it is the RVS, players give reasons for their votes so as not to appear that their votes are scummy. If you don't want to give a reason, you're obviously not obligated to, but repeated unbacked votes set off my scumdar, just letting you know.

Reasons comes at the time I feel they are best for the vote.

@ReaperCharlie
Even if he claimed before he was shot he would have likely been shot anyway.

[semioldguy]

Neither of those is the reason why (though his claim is unconvincing, that isn't why. A convincing claim wouldn't have stopped me from shooting him). It is what I would have done and I don't think Kast is a bad player so I'd think he'd be inclined to act the same as I would. The fact that it was bulletproof that he claimed would have made me want to test it. Otherwise scum could just claim bulletproof when they aren't to get town to look the other way.

The same situation would occur if someone claimed unlynchable. In order to prove the claim, you'd have to try lynching them.

[semioldguy]

What were your reasons for investigating farside22?

[semioldguy]

No chance Wolf could be scum now. He's 100% clear since his mason buddy is dead and flipped exactly what he said.

Actually, a question I asked yesterday which was not answered before the hammer, was that if they were confirmed alignment to one another or not. Now that answer is less reliable/useful with only one of the two players able to answer the question. I'd still like to hear an answer from wolframnhart.

semioldguy- You look pretty passive in iso. As in, not actively involved in the game. As in, along for the ride. As in, you don't care about day phase because you get to kill at night. HMMMMMM. What are your thoughts on bv310?

It's hard for me to get into large games off the bat. Too much to keep track of, which is why I don't play in many large games (couldn't ignore a Star Wars game though). Expect my participation to greatly increase as the game goes on.

As for bv310, he hasn't contributed a whole lot, but has taken stances on a few suspects. I'd lean slight town on him for now.

Holy dogshit, Batman. Scum slip. Moar Votes nao, plz.

What exactly makes it a scum slip instead of just a dumb post?

I don't like CryMeARiver's claim. Neither farside22 nor himself were under any immediate lynch threat. I also dislike partial claims and have seen refusal to complete a partial claim as being paired more often with scum than town. If you are town there shouldn't be any reason to withhold your role name and flavor for why you have the ability you claim. If you are town this should strengthen your claim. Not wanting to claim is scummy because it gives you time to make stuff up or ask your potential scumbuddies later for assistance on a fake claim. If you are town the information/flavor is already there and available and doesn't have to be fabricated.

[semioldguy]

Semiold: He hasn't refused to complete the claim. If you saw that he did refuse please quote where.

Okay...

You are either genuinely stupid, rolefishing, or just plain ridiculous. Me claiming information without pressure is good. I already explained why I stated the info. Claiming under pressure makes me look like hp [leaves]. Imagine if I died tonight with that info, and you went the entire game with farside as a protown player, but could be scum because that's how he plays. At the moment we have 4 clears in my mind. That's very useful to town. Also, you being suspicious of me makes no sense.

1) I will not full claim today.

2) You have no reason to disbelieve me. If you really think I was trying to protect "scumbuddy" farside when under no pressure, you are stupid.

Looks like a refusal to me.

[semioldguy]

I didn't see a need for it but if people find CMAR scummy based on his claim of 1 shot on me and you want more info can I ask why you want more?

Asking for more can help tell whether or not he is telling the truth.

Why do you think it's scummy for someone to claim something when there is no pressure to do so?

To me it falls under going out of one's way and a desire of wanting to appear town. Scum have to actively try to appear town, the town doesn't.

[semioldguy]

He is R2D2. There is no way he could be on the dark side

What about Lando, would you think that Lando would be on the dark side? The player who claimed Lando turned out to be Boba Fett. You can't count on a role name alone to clear someone. All the pieces need to be put together and analyzed. Lando's pieces didn't add up to Lando. Why is it bad to make sure R2-D2's pieces add up to R2-D2?

The fact still holds true that I only did this because of the bounty placed on him and the possibility that town might want to lynch her as to not let scum get the stun grenade by killing farside. The fact that I pulled this stunt should be enough to make me seem town for the moment. I see no reason to out any more information with this role.

You should have waited to see if the town was even going to do that before just assuming. I see no reason to withhold the information requested about your role unless you need time to come up with a lie.

Full claiming as town would strengthen your claim and make it more believable and work more to clear you. Full claiming as scum would be dangerous since you might leave a hole in your claim and be discovered as scum.

Scum have to actively try to appear town, the town doesn't.

That's complete bullshit. So town wants to appear scummy? I had a legit reason for claiming. *gasp* town could have a reason for claiming legit information? Shut your mouth...

No, town doesn't want to appear scummy. But town shouldn't have to actively try to appear town, town should appear town without having to try. It should happen naturally. Scum have to actually try to look town since it doesn't happen naturally for them.

[semioldguy]

@Semi: Did you happen to miss this post after his refusal comment?

@Town (and hidden scum I suppose): Is it necessary for me to full claim really?

Only I responded and no one else did to the request.

No, I didn't miss it. It was a dumb question and he had already been requested by more than one player to full claim. The point that he had refused to full claim still stands whether he changes his mind later or not. It still happened.

Maybe you don't believe he is savvy or ballsy enough to do something like that as scum. But I have a much more limited experience with him and am not going to just take your word on it.

[semioldguy]

Not that I recall. What's your point? Last I checked two is still more than one. I don't find either of those players particularly scummy for their claim request or other actions this game.

[semioldguy]

Based on the fact there was no pressure on either of us for him to claim that this somehow all the sudden makes him scummy for claiming in the first place?

I've already answered this question from you.

Why do you think it's scummy for someone to claim something when there is no pressure to do so?

To me it falls under going out of one's way and a desire of wanting to appear town. Scum have to actively try to appear town, the town doesn't.

If you disagree with my answer, try addressing the answer instead of just asking the question again.

[semioldguy]

Why would a player that has no and I mean none what's so ever suspicion in the first place what to appear townie? Seriously this is almost as bad as too townie fallacy someone tried to say about me one game.
I see scum try and blend, scum hunt falsly, bw, and on some occasions are the agressive type. But to say well he want's to appear town when there was no reason to makes no sense at all. Why? Again why would scum expose themselves (seriously people get your mind out of the gutter) when there is nothing on them in the first place?

Having people think you are in the clear is a better situation to be in than simply not being suspected or not on the radar.

[semioldguy]

Having people think you are in the clear is a better situation to be in than simply not being suspected or not on the radar.

Seriously? Is that the best come back you have? Did you find that in a fortune cookie?[/quote]
It isn't a comeback. Every game I have employed that successfully as scum, I have won. It is well worth the risk.

As scum clearing oneself or a teammate is a priority. If scum can clear themselves, it lead to a victory for scum. Scum can't guarantee that they will stay under the radar. As town, finding scum is the priority. If town can find all the scum, it leads to a victory for town. If I did what CryMeARiver did, it would be much more likely that I am scum than town.

You can't argue that someone would do something as town but would not do that same action as scum. Any action that town would take, scum can take also. Both town and scum can do the same things, but they will do the same things for different reasons. You can't tell if someone is scummy or not by looking at the actions they take, you have to analyze the reasoning they employ behind their actions.

The majority of players on Mafiascum only look at the actions without really considering the motivation behind each action and taking in the context surrounding the action. This is the reason why players like danakillsu get lynched or are suspected as often as they do. They aren't bad players.

If there was no motivation for scum to do something... then explain what the motivation be for town to do it. If only town had a motivation to do it, wouldn't that then give scum a motivation to do it as well?

[semioldguy]

Sorry... messed up the quote tags.

Having people think you are in the clear is a better situation to be in than simply not being suspected or not on the radar.

Seriously? Is that the best come back you have? Did you find that in a fortune cookie?

It isn't a comeback. Every game I have employed that successfully as scum, I have won. It is well worth the risk.

As scum clearing oneself or a teammate is a priority. If scum can clear themselves, it lead to a victory for scum. Scum can't guarantee that they will stay under the radar. As town, finding scum is the priority. If town can find all the scum, it leads to a victory for town. If I did what CryMeARiver did, it would be much more likely that I am scum than town.

You can't argue that someone would do something as town but would not do that same action as scum. Any action that town would take, scum can take also. Both town and scum can do the same things, but they will do the same things for different reasons. You can't tell if someone is scummy or not by looking at the actions they take, you have to analyze the reasoning they employ behind their actions.

The majority of players on Mafiascum only look at the actions without really considering the motivation behind each action and taking in the context surrounding the action. This is the reason why players like danakillsu get lynched or are suspected as often as they do. They aren't bad players.

If there was no motivation for scum to do something... then explain what the motivation be for town to do it. If only town had a motivation to do it, wouldn't that then give scum a motivation to do it as well?

[semioldguy]

@Semiold: You have links to this action where you cleared yourself and a scum team?

Also I seem to note that CMAR said something about why he did the claim. Interested to know why you missed that.

(1) You are stretching the truth. Clearing oneself and a scum team is never something I said. Please try not to exaggerate in the future.

(2) Go read Open 158 in my Wiki. Everyone cleared ekiM of being my godfather and he lived until endgame and won the game.

(3) I didn't believe that CryMeARiver actually would have thought that you were in harm's way at the time of his claim. I saw no compelling evidence or reason to believe that you were going to be run up and/or lynched due to having a bounty on your head or that a grab for the stun grenade was likely. So, no, I didn't miss it. I saw it, and the reason he gave is bad and not a good enough reason to claim anything when he did.

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

[semioldguy]

He puts his votes out there. I am not saying he is super town or anything, there are certainly higher candidates for that, but I don't see anything to vote him over. Both you and Reck garner votes for reasons I often disagree with in the games I've had with you, but that doesn't qualify a person for a vote.

He isn't "so townie" it's just that I don't see him as scummy.

[semioldguy]

(4) Care to elaborate on why you think only town would do something and why scum wouldn't have a reason to do the same thing?

I disagree with you and already explain my views on CMAR. I know you read them so why ask this question?

It could depend on the person or what they say in my view I didnt' see any thing scummy in regards to CMAR, claim, reasoning or views.

It's the point you tried to make against me. If you want to make a point, be able to back it up. You seem to think that scum would be incapable of doing what CryMeARiver would do, or at the very least that they would not have any reason to do what they did, and I say that is complete and utter bullshit. There is not any action scum wouldn't do if town would do that action as well.

If you disagree, or still believe what you said, then could you provide in example instead of dodging again? What is something you would have expected town to do but would never think scum could do? Why would scum not ever do it? Don't just say that they wouldn't do it, explain why. Isn't the fact that scum would not be expected to do something a reason in itself that scum would consider wanting to do it?

If it depends on the person, then how is that a valid point against anyone when no player has the same experience with another player as anyone else? How am I supposed to know what CryMeARiver would or wouldn't do? Why would I just take you at your word that CryMeARiver wouldn't do something as scum?

[semioldguy]

Hooray!! More partial claims at times that don't warrant claiming!!

@bv310
Care to share more or why you thought it a good idea to come out with this now?

[semioldguy]

@Starbuck
If bv310 is softclaiming having a result on you... what's stopping you from putting a vote on him over our current vote?

[semioldguy]

Vote: Wreck Star

[semioldguy]

I didn't target TwoHeadedCtclops last night.

[semioldguy]

@ReaperCharlie
Is it somehow important to know who I did target or if I targeted anyone at all? Are you trying to get excess claims out of the day? Wreck Star is lying, because I didn't target TwoHeadedCyclops last night. I voted them because there is a claimed guilty result.

The accusation looks like an attempt to just get even more claims out there then there already are.

[semioldguy]

Frankly I didn't like Semi's comment about not targetting THC. He was too cool of a customer being accused by someone.
I know if someone would accuse me of something I didn't do I would be all like oh hell no you lying sack of scum.
As well as telling everyone to please lynch scum.

I am not you and I don't flip out when people make false accusations.

On semioldguy

The accusation looks like an attempt to just get even more claims out there then there already are.

If you believe this about our accusation, why would your defense be

I didn't target TwoHeadedCtclops last night.

instead of "I didn't target anyone last night"?

But even if you did say the above, that would be a lie, because we have a track on you.

My defense is that because saying that I did not target him does not give in to your grab for another role claim before going down.

[semioldguy]

@ReaperCharlie
You are accusing me of lurking when less than twenty four hours have passed since my most recent post.

[semioldguy]

Every time I see someone faux-defending either of these parties, it makes me believe THEY are scum.

You realize you are guilty of this as well.

To put it simply, in my eyes it's better to kill off a VT and find a scum (score one for the good guys), then kill off a town PR and have inconclusive evidence about the other possible scum (score one for the bad guys).

Take it or leave it. That's just the way I see it. There are other possible interpretations, as have obviously been intimated previously.

What would be inconclusive about me if Wreck Star flipped town? I am claiming that her result that I targeted TwoHeadedCyclops is wrong

Wreck Star is not a possible town power role unless they are a role that gets both false results and is investigated as guilty.

[semioldguy]

I wouldn't know whether or not I was redirected.

Are you planning on claiming there to have been a redirection if I flip before you? It seems like you've given a redirection claim more thought than I have.

[semioldguy]

What you claim to know for a fact is wrong.

[semioldguy]

Wreck claims to be a town PR and you haven't even claimed, even in the face of almost certain death.

I don't feel that I've been in the face of almost certain death.

And the only reason you're not claiming is because you feel it would only hasten your demise,

This is also not true. I have explained more than once, and specifically to you, why I have not claimed.

It is blindingly obvious that you are only trying to bring others down with you when you die.

Die, scum... Die.

I am not trying to take someone down with me. Wreck Star is trying to take me down with them. I got pulled in for the ride.

@SoG-
Be clear about this. Do you actually disbelieve that Wolf is R2D2, and if so, why do you think that? It sounds like you are muddying the issue with a technicality.

CryMeARiver's reasoning was horrible. I was not certain that Wolf was R2D2. I have not played with masons that were confirmed to each other before. The claim does make sense though, and I currently believe it.

@SoG-
3) Why do you think it is implausible that CMAR might have a suboptimal reason for taking a suboptimal action?
Your reactions right now are a bit surprising. It seems like you're pointing out that CMAR isn't playing up to the standards you expect from a good player and then assuming this means CMAR is scum instead of trying to determine whether those standards are a fitting measure for CMAR.

I initially disbelieved the reason CryMeARiver gave since his reason made absolutely no sense. There wasn't even so much as a single vote on farside22 to warrant suspicion that she was in danger and no one was discussing lynching her to get the item. My gripe with his reason was because there wasn't anything to even support his reason. I've hardly played with CryMeARiver and I don't automatically assume that players just make poor decisions. Usually having them lead you through their thought process helps, but I still have no idea why CryMeARiver thought farside22 was in danger. I don't think she ever was.

I don't assume people are scum because they play poorly, but if they give reasons that I don't believe, then I am going to look for what I believe to be the real reasons.

[semioldguy]

Is there some case on me besides Wreck Star's fake-claim? If they were trying to get confirmation as a tracker why wouldn't they have done so earlier in the day instead of waiting until they knew they would be lynched?

[semioldguy]

I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master and powerful with the force.

Abilities:
Bodyguard - During night phases I can choose a player and will attempt to protect them. If successful, I prevent any night kill actions on that player, but if they are targeted for night kills, it kills me instead.
Force Ghost - During the first night following my death I can choose a player. If that person belongs to the Rebel Alliance, they will either be able use two abilities or one ability twice that night.

On the first night I protected Kast and the second night I protected bv310. Both for being claimed power roles.

[semioldguy]

b) Wreck's lying (he had NO incentive to, he was already dead)

Wrong. Why wouldn't a scum player who is already dead try to take another player with them? Why would they want to go down alone?

[semioldguy]

I wish you would have waited another 24 hours so I had time to post some of my suspicions in more detail. As it is I don't have much time right now.

FCGronigen would be well worth one of your two investigations tonight. He has been flying low and I've been suspicious of him. AlmasterGM should be checked out as well. This day was allowed to go by very quickly and a lot of people who have not spoken up were just given a free pass for another day.