Scummers Mafia: Greatest Bash? (Game Over, Scum wins?)

[Cuttlefish]

Vote: ZazieR.

Also, since when is Vi racist?

[Cuttlefish]

Wow. Gee, thanks, guys...

I know what you mean. It's sad that I didn't get to tunnel on you for absolutely no reason this game.

Oh, and I'm Nikanor by the way.

[Cuttlefish]

I'm Nikanor by the way.

I'm just playing under this account because I like the name.

[Cuttlefish]

Hi my name is DeathNote and I am a millers.

This makes sense, flavour-wise. I'm inclined to believe this claim.

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Ellipses are scummy, Fingers of Suspicion are scummy (especially in the RVS).

FoS: Monkey

Why the FoS? Why no vote?

To be clear, if Spy really is a Miller, claiming was 100% correct.
He still needs to go. It's just way too convinient a claim for Scum to be able to dodge Cops all game long.

The thing is, we have this other thing at our disposal. I can't remember its name, though. It sounded like... Scumblunting? Gumhunting? I can't remember.

I didn't reach any conclusion, stupid or otherwise.

If you hadn't reached a conclusion, why did you vote for him?

FoS: Papa Zito for that votecount

Why was it suspicious?

FoS: MonkeyMan also

Again with the FoS. Still scummy.

Fos Diacria

Another FoS. I'm starting to think that at least some of the FoSers have to be town.

Niv never self-voted. Vote: Papa Zito, for his attempts at mass confusion.

I really don't think that's what he was trying to do. This looks like mud-throwing.

-I'm facebook friends with the mod.

ABR?

I know that someone, Kublai Khan, has claimed miller as scum and survived through endgame and win.

And how is that related to what we have here?

but the miller claim should not be treated as a scum tell for now, and there are roles other than cop that can check his alignment.

Or, you know, SCUMHUNTING.
Also, these two quotes of yours seem to contradict. Something just isn't sitting right with me.

Catching up later. I really have to go.

[Cuttlefish]

That said this is the first time I've been blessed with a miller role that I knew about at the start of the game - and I would prefer to be the unsure-vig target versus a lynch because its too easy to smokescreen in.

Well, judging by your claim, I think you're town. The DeathNote being a miller thing makes perfect sense.

UnVote Cow, Vote ortolan

I don't get it. Why is ort scum from that post you quoted?

Post 78: Why, praytell, are FoS's scummy?

Someone who is town should be trying to get scum lynched. You can't do that with an FoS. If you're suspicious of someone, you should be voting them unless you're voting someone more suspicious, and I don't think any of the people who FoS'd others had a decent vote on another person.

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Looking more closely at this post (now that I'm not in a rush to get to the cafe), Monkey seems to have knowledge that Spy actually is a miller, especially the "it certainly raises suspicions" with ellipses bit. He says, "I don't see the point in claiming miller," which implies that Monkey thinks Spy is a miller, and then goes on to FoS Spy.
Scummy scum scum scum.

Unvote. Vote: Monkey.

Pomegranate, what do you think of all this Monkey business?

[Cuttlefish]

Spy still needs to die.

I think that Spy is town. You can't ignore that his millerness jives perfectly with what I'd expect of a DeathNote role.

[Cuttlefish]

I don't know DeathNote well. Could a mafia role fit him too?

Possibly, but not as well as miller.
DeathNote is a guy who sigged that he was always an easy lynch and is really self-defeatist all the time. Miller just suits DeathNote so perfectly that I can't imagine him being a scum role.

[Cuttlefish]

Wait wait wait wait.
Ohhhh no you don't.

Zazie is definitely scum. The line quoted by ort in the post above this one pretty much proves it.
I'm thinking that Zazie is a jester, though. I bet someone with an UncertainKitten role would certainly enjoi the rope around his neck, y'know? And his claim seems too obvscummish. I doubt a player of Zazie's experience would do something like that.
Zazie should be vigged.
Monkey should be lynched today.

[Cuttlefish]

EBWOP, since I was ninja'd by ort:

I investigated Orto N0 and the result I got is that he is scum.

I was talking about this quote.

[Cuttlefish]

so Zazier you're essentially claiming that you just happened to investigate the same person to ask you to claim day one; and get a guilty on them*

*without breadcrumbing the guilty in any way

This, Zazie.

Actually, I checked out your iso, and your behaviour

does

fit with your claim. For some reason I thought that you weren't hostile with ort until after he asked you to claim, when in fact you had voted ort as your first post, before he had asked. I'm actually thinking your claim makes you more likely to be town, now; and your stubbornness to not claim is consistent with someone who has a guilty result on the person asking him to claim.
Now I'm not sure what to think. Although there is probably at least one scum in ort/Zazie, I still think that Monkey is the right play for today.

UK is also the person who claimed scum and survived an entire game.

I don't get how that's supposed to work out flavour-wise, if that's what you're getting at.

Zazie obviously killed Hoopla which means the scum faction's first victim was Netopalis. Also hammer now please

So you're claiming that Zazie is an SK?

[Cuttlefish]

Zito, do you think that both tajo and ort are scum?

ani, are you going to claim your results?

Vote: populartajo.

I think that ort is town. His early day one claim of role information on Zazie does not strike me as something that scum would do. It's too open for scum to comfortably hide, if you know what I mean.
It's time to start looking at the ort wagon to find the scum. The wagon has built too quickly for it to be town-driven. tajo is way too sure of a scum read on ortolan when I'm getting a town read on ort, so I'm going to start there.
Other good places: ani and manho for their terrible bandwagonny votes.

[Cuttlefish]

Can I hammer, please, or would this be too quicklynchalicious?

No, don't hammer. What do you think about what I've said about ortolan? Same question to Zito.

[Cuttlefish]

With the whole way that played out yesterday AND zaz being a cop it would be an ok 1-1 at worst and at best skating by.

I don't want to play follow the cop any more, Spy. This reminds me of MrSuave's game. I thought Locke/Fate was town (which is why I claimed my hide on him instead of someone else), but decided to follow farside's inspect. And Fate flipped town, because farside was insane.
I'm finding my townhunting results are more accurate than cop guilties lately, so I'm going to stick with what I know.
ortolan's behaviour has been consistent. He put Cow as second on his suspicions list yesterday, and claims to have shot Cow last night. That makes sense. The "shot" flavour wouldn't be shown because "sledgehammered" would override "shot," according to the mod and common sense.
Add that to the fact that ort is an UNCOUNTERCLAIMED MASON with flavour that makes sense (PokerFace viging on n0), and I don't know why we're lynching him (aside from the cop guilty, which I'm ignoring).

[Cuttlefish]

if he's a scum PR I'd probably put a bullet through you without question.

I object.

And the flavor argument with the kills overriding is weak at best and doesn't give those warm feelings.

It was more a response to why the kill flavour shouldn't be used as an argument for ort's lynch than an argument against ort's lynch.

I'm un counterclaimed tracker wish a result on Zaxie visiting ortolan.

I don't see how that has anything to do with Zazie's sanity.

[Cuttlefish]

SAY WHAT? THE UNCOUNTERCLAIMED MASON FLIPPED TOWN? NO WAY.

Vote: Monkeyman.

We should have done this a long time ago.

[Cuttlefish]

I don't doubt that Monkey is at least a name cop, if not a role cop. Scum wouldn't be stupid enough to fake-claim like that. I don't doubt that his name is Kast. So I don't know why people (ahem, Pomegranate) are asking why Kast would be a name cop.
Now, what I don't get is that I don't know how a mafia name cop would be useful. It actually seems like a really useless role. Town name cop would be almost as useless.
BUT
If Monkey were a town name cop, he would have asked for his inspection targets to name-claim before claiming his role, because now if he's town he's as useful as a vanilla townie, unless dramonic is imitating Vi and put Tarhalindur in as a scum role (which we wouldn't know anyway).

tl;dr: Monkey is a mafia role cop, claim means nothing, lynch goes ahead as scheduled.

[Cuttlefish]

I think you're going to lynch me anyways, so I'm reluctant to give them, but...in hopes that you'll at least give me a chance...

Scum motivation over here. Town power roles reveal their investigations because it helps the town, not because it might save them from being lynched.

[Cuttlefish]

I highly, highly doubt that Monkey was able to tell just from manho's softclaim that manho is Kublai Khan. I feel that manho is from the same faction as Monkey.

I think that since Monkey actually

was

a rolecop, that manho is probably not of the same faction as him. I think that Monkey claimed his actual results, meaning that all the people he inspected are town. It makes more sense than claiming your buddies' names because <what Spy said>.
I really want to see who manho votes for today, though.

Be back tonight with more stuff.

[Cuttlefish]

Hey, I've got a question.
Mask, did you send in a roleblock on Zito? I think that ani tracked Zito because he didn't see Zito's warning, but I want to confirm something.
Has anyone else claimed to have their minds shattered?
-----

Pomegranate:

iso0

: "Oh. Hi then, PZ. Also, do you have some sort of doublevote, or is the votecount just messed up?"
This is nothingness.

iso1

: "We don't lynch Spy today."
There is no reason attached. Pom simply says it. She gives a reason in...

iso2

: "I think that we shouldn't lynch SpyreX today, and work off of the quality of his play for the future. I don't see the need to lynch him today. I think that he's playing a miller correctly, and that it fits with the Death Note claim."
This looks kind of like an EBWOP, but it's not. She doesn't add anything new with this post, and I said myself the part about Spy's role flavour making sense between the times of isos 1 and 2. This post is fluff.

iso3

: A throwaway question to kunk, and a promise to post answers to questions tonight.

iso4

: A response to kunk's response. Basically the two of them speculating about Zito's extra vote.

iso5

: Another response to kunk. I don't get the point of this conversation.

iso6

: Responding to Starbuck's question regarding Pom's iso4.

iso7

: Promise to catch up. This is five days after iso6. Pom never does respond to those questions she promised to answer in iso3.

iso8

: "Definitely Vote: ortolan at this point. PZ sums it up nicely."
That's a nice catchup post.

iso9

: Another promise to catch up, this time four days after her last post.

iso10

: This is scummy, now that we know Monkey is scum. Pom supports a mass name claim, but also says that Monkey's flavour doesn't fit and puts the L-2 vote on Monkey.
It's scummy because it's dissonant (am I using the term right?) Pom votes for Monkey, but also supports a mass name claim. If Pom thought Monkey was scum, why did she support the mass claim? It seems like Pom is trying to bus and give Monkey another chance with the mass claim.

iso11

: "Why would Kast be a name cop?"
This basically seems to be the listed reason for her vote. Not a great reason. Looks like bussing to me.

iso12

: An assertion that Monkey should claim his targets, now that he's at L-1.

iso13

: A response to tajo. Basically saying that Monkey gave a paraphrase of his flavour already.
And that's all for yesterday.

iso14

: Asks for clarification on something that I find plenty clear already (i.e. Pom's question looks weak and throwaway), then places the third vote on manho for the reason, "I agree with SpyreX".

In conclusion, Pomegranate is a lurker whose iso is pretty much devoid of independent thought. Her vote on Monkey looks like weak bussing, with a last-ditch (and abandoned; she doesn't bring the mass claim up again after the post where she says she supports it) attempt to save him. This does not look like the town version of Pomegranate I know from Open 175, where she took clear stances against the people she was voting, and provided independent thought through most of the game, most notably when she voted for people, which is what I'm looking at specifically for contrast with this game here.

And I'm so glad I saved this in notepad last night, because the site decided to crash as I was posting it.

On the manho wagon:
this does not look like bussing. If Monkey was wagonned and lynched day one, manho would get no credit for the lynch. It makes no sense for a scumbuddy of Monkey to post that instead of something decent for town cred. In addition, this does not come from scum. Posting that would be like asking to be lynched. I know it's a fallacy, but I think this particular post is too scummy to come from scum. Add that to the fact that I don't think Monkey would claim results on his buddies, and I get that manho is town.
If anyone wants to hear my theory on that, it's that if you claim a rolecop result on a townie, they can be like "Oh yeah! That's my role! You're right! I can support your claim now!" and then get lynched the next day. You can't really do that with scumbuddies.

I could go with an nhammen lynch today as well for the reason Zito stated, but I find Pom scummier.

Vote: Pomegranate.

[Cuttlefish]

Can we please get some activity? I thought my case on Pom would at least get SOME reaction, but it feels like you're all (save Spy, who is town anyway) trying to ignore it for some reason. Are we just going to blindly speedlynch another person without even looking at the alternatives?

[Cuttlefish]

I recommend everyone take a look at this. Pomegranate has been much more active in her other games, and she's been coasting in this one. Take a look at May 10-15 and 16-18 in particular, as those were the times she almost flaked from this game.
Apparently, not only does she have time to post in her other games, but she inned for one on the 10th, and offered to replace into another just two days ago.

[Cuttlefish]

We lynched the cop d1.
We lynched the (*cough*uncounterclaimed*cough*) mason vig d2.
We lynched obvscum d3.

[Cuttlefish]

The evening of May 18th until the night of May 20th was a Jewish holiday called Shavuot, which is not so well known.

Well I know that you didn't post anywhere onsite for that time. That's why I said 16-18 and not 16-20. I'm obviously not going to use your V/LA against you. However, that holiday doesn't change the fact that you were posting extensively elsewhere on the 18th in particular.

I fell behind, never really had a chance to catch up, and therefore don't care about this game as much as I should.

Are you caught up now? Because if you're caught up now, that excuse doesn't really work.

Could you tell me why you think my case for manho being town is wrong?

[Cuttlefish]

Pom needs to answer this:

Could you tell me why you think my case for manho being town is wrong?

I actually forgot that Zang was in the game. A quick search of him shows that he's been making about twenty posts per day in Mishmash and his other games.
Zang hasn't made a content post in this game in 15 days. Combine that lurking with Zang's terrible hammer on day one, and we've got ourselves lurkerscum. Also of note is that Zang hasn't even placed a vote since his hammer on day one. I find that much worse than Pom's sheeping.

Unvote. Vote: Zang.

[Cuttlefish]

Reck, iso Zang while your Pom iso is still fresh in your mind and tell me who is the scummier of the two.

[Cuttlefish]

OH NO I OUTED MY MAIN!

[Cuttlefish]

Unvote. Vote: Pomegranate.

I honestly don't want to wait until Friday for something that probably won't be worth the wait.
manho: She's now V/LA until Friday.

[Cuttlefish]

The thing is, even if you think Pom is town, there is no downside to lynching Pom today.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a lynch because it brings us from even to odd numbers.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a useful townie because, let's face it, Pom hasn't been useful to us in the past and there's no reason to believe she'll be useful in the future.
Just saying that you think Pom is town is not enough to stop this lynch, because again, there is no downside to lynching Pom, even if she's town.

[Cuttlefish]

Agreed, but I am very wary of the people who are saying that she's town and she still should swing.

This is what I read from this:
"I agree that we should lynch Pom and then continue discussion. HOWEVER I think that the people who want to lynch Pom are suspicious. SO in order to make people gong for a Pom lynch look scummy without contradicting myself I'm not going to vote for Pom, EVEN THOUGH I AGREED THAT LYNCHING HER IS A GOOD IDEA."

I'm going to say that Pomegranate is probably going to flip town. However, as I've said, there is no downside to lynching her. Even if there's a 1% chance of Pom flipping scum, it's worth lynching her.
Now vote for Pomegranate. This is taking way longer than it should and I'm getting impatient.

[Cuttlefish]

Vote: Zang.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[Cuttlefish]

Hahahaha. Do not worry Mr. Wizard, I am town.
I think you're just paranoid because you're agreeing with me too much.

[Cuttlefish]

Didn't you just say a couple of pages ago that you thought he was newbtown, Reck?

[Cuttlefish]

Ehhh. I feel uneasy, but Zang still needs to die.

[Cuttlefish]

I agreed with the more discussion factor. Not that she should swing, which reading back I didn't really make clear. That's my fault, but why would you not ask me what I meant rather than assuming you know what I meant?

I didn't ask questions because I thought it was pretty clear what you meant. The thing you quoted was, "This means we lynch Pom and then get more discussion." I'm not sure how one would misunderstand that statement, or why you'd quote that if your standing was to not lynch Pom.

And then Cuttlefish went on to make a semantics argument, only to realize after he wrote it that it was, in fact, a semantics argument, and proceeded to delete the entire thing.

The issue I have with that post, Starbuck, is that you didn't vote for Pom when there was clearly no disadvantage to having her lynched. It looks like scum fishing for town cred to me.

Zito: Can we lynch Zang first? I think that a Zanglynch will make Reck's alignment more clear, but right now I have a neutral read on Reck. If Zang flips scum, though, my cephalopodic face will be all up in his grill.
I'm not really feeling the Spy lynch.

[Cuttlefish]

Hmm - Zang's iso is bad. But it reads almost newbtown instead of newbscum. For example, the double unvote in iso 5 & iso 6 screams lack of interest or not paying attention. Pom's iso screamed more active lurking.

This, Zito. If Zang is scum, it means Reck is probscum.

[Cuttlefish]

I didn't vote for Pom because I felt that she was town.

There was a disadvantage to lynching her. ONE LESS TOWNIE.

Why can you not see this?

I don't see how that's a disadvantage. What makes you say that Pom was useful as a townie?

Post 582 of yours, Nik', has the scent of fish and avocado dripping all over it (cuttlefish... lulz). Now, or better yet never, is not the time to line up suspicion against SB. She has my backing due to earning townsfolk credentials earlier. Let's look elsewhere for scum, k? It's healthier that way. Don't let your focus stray. Trust the man behind the mask.

What posts made you feel she was town?

[Cuttlefish]

You say there's a disadvantage to having one less townie. I'd like to know what you think that is.

[Cuttlefish]

Hello, MYLO and LYLO.

Are you really asking me this question?

Yeah, and if it was mylo we would have nolynched and would be in exactly the same place we are now. I still fail to see where we've lost anything with the Pom lynch.

the original quote is a bit weird, but it is definitely not a "scummy scum scum scum" post.

He says, "

I don't see the point

in claiming miller." The "I don't see the point" is not something you say to someone who you think might be fakeclaiming.

here, he think zazie is town.

Yes. Zazie's iso fits with what I'd expect of a cop with a guilty.

here, he think ort is town.

He was an uncounterclaimed mason. Not only is it not a big jump from uncounterclaimed mason to town, but ortolan was behaving exactly how I'd imagine him to behave as town.
Have you read my iso12, manho? It shows exactly I didn't follow Zazie's inspection result and instead decided on ortolantown. Why is it not included in your case?

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

I showed how Pom had done pretty much nothing all game, and why I thought her stances on Monkey were bussing.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" to the pom lynch.

Those are reasons for why Pom shouldn't not be lynched.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" again to the zang lynch.

No, that is a reason to lynch Reck if Zang flips scum.

[Cuttlefish]

Okay. So let's pretend for a minute that it's mylo and Pom hasn't claimed or been lynched. Would you advocate a nolynch, Starbuck?

[Cuttlefish]

Hi.
I'm Xylthixlm, creator of Xylbot. I know pretty much every role. I can investigate one person each night to find the category of their role. I asked for clarification from dram, and apparently this means I can see if someone is an Informative, Manipulative, Voting, Protective, or Killing role. Goons and Townies both show up as Vanilla to me.

n0 I inspected Neto (yes, the dead guy. If you want to know why I picked Neto read Mini 922. I can't read Neto worth a damn) and was told he was a protective role.
n1 I investigated Spy and was told he was a manipulative role.
n2 I investigated Monkey and was told he was an informative role.
n3 I investigated Pom, but was told that Zito is a manipulative role and had my mind smashed to bits.


nhammen: We were at even numbers before the Pom lynch. We're at odd numbers now. That's why I am saying there was no disadvantage to the Pom lynch.

manho: It's called READING. This is why we're losing this game. Nobody fucking re-reads. For the Zazie lynch, it would have been plenty clear that he was a cop with a guilty on ort if you had just READ his iso. The ortolan lynch is still stupid as fuck. Your case reads like OMG HOW DID YOU KNOW THE OBVCOP WAS TOWN AND HOW DID YOU KNOW THE MASON WAS TOWN YOU'RE TOO GOOD AT THIS GAME TO BE TOWN!!!11!!11! As for your accusations on me regarding Monkey, he SCUMSLIPPED. I picked up on it. I voted Monkey. Tada~ scum lynched! It's not that hard when you READ THE FUCKING GAME

Benmage is next on the claim list.

[Cuttlefish]

And we will be at even numbers tomorrow if 2 kills go through. Which is why we SHOULD HAVE WAITED until MYLO to lynch Pom.

My bad, then. I don't know how anyone could have expected a one-shot modkiller on top of the night-vig and day-vig we already have flipped, but okay.

manho needs to reread my posts before asking stupid questions.

Benmaaaaage.

[Cuttlefish]

We're just waiting on Benmage to finish that 27-page read-through that he's been working on for a week so that he can finally get in here to claim.

manho: At that point I was positive that there was scum behind and on the ortolan wagon because it was such a godawful wagon. Basically, I took to chainsaw-defending ortolan.

[Cuttlefish]

I was prodded. Just waiting for Reck.

@Mod: Prod on Reckoner please?

[Cuttlefish]

Just claim.

[Cuttlefish]

Hi.
I have to leave soon but I'll post something tonight.

[Cuttlefish]

manho, I've already pointed out that Monkey slipped that Spy was a miller.

I've can't remember why I thought manho was town.

Vote: manho.

Can someone explain why kunk is being wagonned?

[Cuttlefish]

Sorry for being inactive, guys.
I'm wondering why people are assuming that only one of manho and Reck is scum.

[Cuttlefish]

I almost don't want to finish my analysis.
I'll probably just hammer whoever gets to L-1 first. I think that both manho and Reck have good chances at being scum.

[Cuttlefish]

kunk's little thing where he votes manho and then Reck is funny and all, but I'm going with Spy on this one.

Vote: manho.

[Cuttlefish]

Endgame? You mean manho was town?

...