Well, if the lock is stonecold.inHimshallibe wrote: I also have astonecoldlockon PranaDevil for scum. Feeble cat is feeble, after all.
Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)
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Devotress Goon
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If flavour on reckoner's death is specifically related to the element of an esper/aeon, did the person who killed reckoner use an individual killing ability or a factional ability right? Assuming for the moment it was a factional kill, do we assume every mafia member has a different element that their flavour will give if their assigned to do the kill? The sign up thread mentioned something about elemental strengths/weakness
vote pranadevil-
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Devotress Goon
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Yah, when ultros is in the colliseum, he's outright friendly with the party isn't he? If the Ultros claim is truthfull, miller makes complete sense to me.
She's a Nobody from Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. She's one of the principle antagonists in that game, she fights with small knives and lightning spells.Iecerint wrote:Who on earth is Larxene? Wiki doesn't even know.-
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It should be worth noting that final fantasy isn't the only flavour going into this game, not even just rpg games. Mischief Makers is even mentioned in the worlds listed at the start of this game.
Which part of his setup speculation bothered you? I think the whole elements system is something important for town to figure out as this game goes on. Was it just the part where he speculated at roles, or the whole thing?WorseExcuse wrote: Setup Speculation? Already?vote:Chronopie-
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Devotress Goon
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There's something with Zodiark's interaction with Nautilus that seemed strange to me.
@zodiark, what did you believe Nautilus' intention was behind that post?
if you HAD to vote for someone, who would it be.Zodiark13 wrote:So it's scummy to not find anyone scummy?
also,
unvote
vote zodiark
Since Glork can't get a bandwagon started with all those misses, someone get the poor guy some eyedrops.
@glork, was there any flavour to you being told you were blind, or was it just a basic "you've been made blind"-
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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Zodiark13 wrote:Right now, I'd probably keep my vote on Glork. His attacks on me seem OMGUS to me. To be perfectly honest, I don't have any immediate suspicions, although, it seems like Nautilus is trying to buddy me.
Do you find it common for people to make very serious votes as OMGUS because of an obvious joke vote?-
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Devotress Goon
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This is pretty much what I was getting at when I asked Glork for flavour. Blinding people is so much of who ultros is, that in Dissidia Final Fantasy he's boiled down to a summon skill that casts ink on the enemy player.wolframnhart wrote:Black goop?
Like an ink attack from a squid? or octopus?
I know Icerint just claimed vanilla, but if he changes his mind I'd really like him to claim the full details of his blind skill. If it's just a vote blocker I doubt it would be a town alligned role.
That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.-
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I don't believe he is vanilla.Glork wrote:Iece reiterated his vanillaness, and yet you seem to be willing to give him another chance to change his story. Do you believe right now that he is vanilla?
Frankly, the idea of someone who can make someone not have a vote and put us in lylo sooner is very scary and I do want to lynch him, but I'd still rather here the full description of what blind does. It could be something confirmable for all we know.If he were to say "okay, I have other abilities," would you believe him to be protown?
Lynch someone(zodiark) today and Icerint tomorrow. I'd rather give Icerint a pass for ONE day, because it might save us alot of grief later, we can't keep giving him passes forever though.Seems to me you're trying very hard to allow him to back himself out of a corner.-
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Devotress Goon
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That's a fair enough point.Kdub wrote:
I thought about this as well. If he is telling the truth, it would be better to save him until after a non-town flip. The problem is, what if he is lying scum and actually has night actions? Should we really give him another night to use them?Devotress wrote:That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.
If his blind does anything other than the vote, he's probably a role blocker I imagine. (makes all actions miss). I personally can suffer a roleblocker to live a day, aslong was he's not still alive once people have started claiming roles and what not.-
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Yah I know. That's why I'm putting a timeframe on this, I'm just requesting people keep him alive for one more day and we try to hit a different scum once, and i'll be willing to lynch him tomorrow (barring unforseen circumstances). I know we can't just keep him alive forever untill we hit scum, but I don't think he'd do too much damage in one night alive, ultros isn't going to have an extra nightkill or anything like that. (if anything ultros' buddy typhoon would have that).
I believe Icerint is ultros. The point of a false death miller claim would be to keep people form making connections based on his death, but you'd have to truthfully claim your rolename for that to work.-
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Devotress Goon
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That last post was written without seeing glork's last post, it was response to wolfram, once second.
Vote Count:
Iecerint: 5(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, PranaDevil, dramonic, Chronopie)
PranaDevil: 5(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, bill1148, DarkLightA, Nautilus)
dramonic: 2(bv310, FC Groningen)
Zodiark13: 1(Devotress)
Glork: 2(Zodiark13)
bv310: 1(wolframnhart)
Chronopie: 1(WorseExcuse)
Not Voting:
Antifinity
JPSalazar
killa seven
Lynch:
11 votes.
Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST-
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Devotress Goon
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I disagree. I believe he's scum but the potential of a false roleflip is worth giving it a one day timeframe on someone else just in case.Glork wrote:There are NO grounds for "let's wait a day" or "let's wait until a scum flips" or anything like that. If you are confident enough to want to lynch him on D2 or D3 or whatever, then you should be confident enough to want him lynched NOW.
Not particularly, I did at first, but when I thought about you being blind it started to concern me. When I made the Eyedrops joke a few posts back is when I decided he might be scum and asked you about the flavour.Do you believe Iece is protown?-
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Devotress Goon
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Everyone doesn't learn everything actually. I'm pretty sure vanille only get's the Ga level spell of Blizzard, Fire, and maybe aero. It's why vanille's no where near as good as Hope as a raveger even though she has almost as much magic.
(I agree Light' doesn't count as electric element though. If her name wasn't lightning I don't think people would really consider it.)
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I smiled at "godfather mafia octopus".Iecerint wrote:
So, do you think I'm lying about checking innocent to sane Cops, or do you think I'm Ultros: Godfather Mafia Octopus?Devotress wrote:
It'd have to be mafia. I don't see why a Serial Killer would benefit from claiming death miller.Iecerint wrote:Devo, do you think I'm mafiascum, SKscum, or any of the above?
"Blinding Godfather Mafia Octopus" to complete the role name though.
To be honest I didn't think about that part. I'm relatively certain Ultros wouldn't be a godfather. (especially since I think you're the inker, usually godfather doesn't have another power to my knowledge.)
Could be you were just gambiting on hoping people wouldn't investigate you.
I still feel like you are the best canditate for being the one who blinded glork and that that works against you for now. The main way I can see you not being the blinder is if Glork was lying about the flavour of his blind, but I haven't gotten any scum vibes from glork.
Generic death miller question. Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game? How is there reveal usually handled if so?
I'm kind of wondering if the existance of a death miller in itself would confirm there being only one mafia faction.
@people who unvoted icerint/haven't voted yet.
Apply your pressure somewhere. Prana's suspicious for hoping onto the icerint wagon based off of a flavour claim by glork even though prana previously thought glork was the scummiest person in game. So prana wagon is good, but I'd like some attention/pressure on Zodiark right now personally, all his posting is off.-
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I was actually inquiring about the opposite. If Icerint is really a deathmiller, I was saying that would confirm there isn't two mafias. Of course we'd have to hit a scum before icerint for any of this to be a viable information path.wolframnhart wrote:
What makes you sure it is a two mafia game? I realize there was two kills at night, but why two mafia specifically?Devotress wrote: Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game?-
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How does the mod decide which team the death miller flips onto? If mafia A has a death miller, that makes people draw false connections about mafia A and possibly mislynch, that gives Mafia A an advantage over Mafia B. Unless both mafia's have a related death miller who roleflips as one of them.PranaDevil wrote:
Does not compute.Devotress wrote:
I was actually inquiring about the opposite. If Icerint is really a deathmiller, I was saying that would confirm there isn't two mafias. Of course we'd have to hit a scum before icerint for any of this to be a viable information path.wolframnhart wrote:
What makes you sure it is a two mafia game? I realize there was two kills at night, but why two mafia specifically?Devotress wrote: Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game?-
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Chronopie. What changed to make you decide we shouldn't wait a day or two afterall? (note: the quesion isn't "why is icerint scum")bill1148 wrote:Chronopie wrote: --
I think we should wait a day or two (until we hit scum).
ThereforeUnvoteChronopie wrote:I agree with Dram here.
That flavour based defense sounds more like: "Oh shit, I've been rumbled. Think up an excuse."
Re-vote: Iecerintunvote
vote Chronopie
When you flip-flop, try to be less conspicuous about it.-
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Devotress Goon
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The intent isn't to set up a future incerint lynch but to put off an Icerint lynch people are trying to get happening today, there is a difference in that.Starbuck wrote:On Devotress
I'm not comfortable with Devotress's lets wait til tomorrow to lynch Iec. Setting up lynches isn't a pro-town play in my book.
FOS: Devotress-
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Not to say I don't want to lynch him tomorrow. But the whole "let's lynch him tomorrow" thing came out of me wanting to avoid messing up on a death miller and having false info.
Vote Count:
Iecerint: 5(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, Chronopie, JPSalazar)
PranaDevil: 4(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, Starbuck, Nautilus)
Glork: 2(Zodiark13)
Zodiark13: 2(Devotress, FC Groningen)
Chronopie: 2(WorseExcuse, bill1148)
bv310: 1(wolframnhart)
Antifinity: 1(bv310)
Not Voting:
Antifinity
killa seven
PranaDevil
Lynch:
11 votes.
Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST-
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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Hey chrono, you missed this from a couple pages back:
Devotress wrote:
Chronopie. What changed to make you decide we shouldn't wait a day or two afterall? (note: the quesion isn't "why is icerint scum")bill1148 wrote:Chronopie wrote: --
I think we should wait a day or two (until we hit scum).
ThereforeUnvoteChronopie wrote:I agree with Dram here.
That flavour based defense sounds more like: "Oh shit, I've been rumbled. Think up an excuse."
Re-vote: Iecerintunvote
vote Chronopie
When you flip-flop, try to be less conspicuous about it.-
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Devotress Goon
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It's worth pointing out that zodiark has posted elsewhere on site too, in the time that he's been avoiding this thread.FC Groningen wrote:
zodiark conveniently went off the radar somewhere on page 5 or 6 after being pressured and the focus went back on Iece.wolframnhart wrote:@Prana
What is the difference between Zodiarks absence and bv310? or Killa seven for that matter? Is it just the topics that each have/haven't?-
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Except I'm not, you're just blindly ignoring the reasoning. There's an obvious different intent between "hey let's hold off on lynching the guy who claimed he's a death miller who would flip accurately only after a scum is killed" and "hey let's lynch this guy but not untill tomorrow."Starbuck wrote:On DevotressDevotress wrote:The intent isn't to set up a future incerint lynch but to put off an Icerint lynch people are trying to get happening today, there is a difference in that.
There is no difference. You are still trying to set up a lynch.Devotress wrote:Not to say I don't want to lynch him tomorrow. But the whole "let's lynch him tomorrow" thing came out of me wanting to avoid messing up on a death miller and having false info.
You are just trying to pussyfoot around the reasoning now.
Also posting to say I'm glad the zodiark wagon built this steam.
@chronopie, I still want you to adress the whole Icerint thing.
You unvoted icerint because you agreed it was smart to avoid lynching him for a day or two, not because you no longer believed he was scummy. When you hopped back on the icerint wagon, your reasoning was that he was scummy.
But that was never the reason you unvoted him, so I'd like you to clarify what happened there. Not "why is icerint scummy". but, "why is it okay to lynch him now without waiting to hit a different scum, when before you thought it wasn't?"-
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But, you did not unvote icerint because you didn't believe he was scum, you unvoted him because you agreed with the notion that trying to hit another scum before him was a good idea, on the off chance his claim was truthfull.
How could he "go back to looking scummy" if you never originally believed he had stopped being scummy.
Vote Count:
Zodiark13: 9(Devotress, FC Groningen, PranaDevil, KDub, Chronopie, Iecerint, bv310, Antifinity, wolframnhart)
Iecerint: 3(Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, JPSalazar)
PranaDevil: 3(inHimshallibe, Starbuck, Nautilus)
Chronopie: 2(WorseExcuse, bill1148)
Glork: 1
Not Voting:
killa seven
Zodiark13
Lynch:
11 votes.
Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST-
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Devotress Goon
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I still don't like chronopie's answer. I personally don't buy the idea that one comment by icerint changes the whole concept that it was better to wait a day or two to vote him off.
I'm still happy with my vote on Zodiark right now though, he feels like he's just waiting around to get lynched.
Zodiark13 wrote:Now, is there anything I can do to prove I'm town?
Just to restate this. The best way to convince us you're not scum is to give us someone more scummy.inHimshallibe wrote:Zodiark, give me the name of three scum.-
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Since the mod has included characters from nameless worlds, I don't think we should make an assumption that those names at the begining ment anything other then examples for dramatic effect.
Not arguing this point for zodiarks sake, but for the sake of someone else who claims to be Vanille or whatever 3 Days from now.-
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Devotress
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If we only have 2 votes to make sure the right person is higher on the vote count, it's 3 anitifinity and 2 icerint right now right?
I'd throw a vote antifinity over a vote icerint personally, but before that, we can assume no one got blinded to give us info on that flavour right? Since there was no one with an extra vote on them, which glork had day 1.-
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I wonder if we someone might have been able to cure doom had starbuck claimed she was doomed right away? I think a role that was just a person with a full item bag that can cure various status ailments would be kind of neat. This is all a hindsight thing of course, but if someone get's doomed again Tomorrow, claim first post.
Wolframhart: This is wifom, but if I was really the role he claimed, claimed it, and people started being suspicious because the role obvious sounded scummy: I wouldn't come out in thread and say "Hey that was me guys it was just a joke". I'd try and let it all blowover and hope no one figured out it was me. Remember we have a "???" who claimed there was no Tidus in this game too.
Prana: Trying to gain townie points in advance of something he would know wasn't actually putting him in danger, if he had been scum.
Icerint: Two people stated the flavour of the kind of blind I'd imagine Ultros doing, and as I said:Blind is so much a part of what Ultros is, that in Dissidia Final Fantasy that is his only ability. Ultros comes out, and sprays ink on part of the enemies HUD.That is still the only thing I find suspicious about you though, I'd still rather not seriously consider you untill we hit atleast one scum, because Death Miller also makes sense flavour wise.
Chronopie: He's just trying to go along with whatever he thinks the current townie Trend is, seriously, go ISO him. He votes Icerint because it was popular. A couple people start unvoting icerint because they agree it's not worth risking the death miller, Chronopie unvotes. Later on he see's that the unvoting trend didn't carry past more than a couple people, so he revotes icerint and makes a weak excuse for doing so. Zodiark wagon starts to build and he hops on right in the middle.
Vote Chronopie-
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Chrono drew heavy attention from me because of the whole Unvoting icerint to fit in with town, and then realizing not many people were unvoting, revoting with no good reason. atleast that's what it looked like from my point of view.Glork wrote: I also think it's beyond ridiculous that Chrono is getting flak for being "wagony," when Prana, Anti, and Dram have been AT LEAST as bad. Clearly there is some scum favoritism among this group.
Anti-wagon grew crazy fast. Kind of like the Zodiark wagon did. This is the raw data that can be taken from that.
I count the Zodiark quick wagon begining after I mentioned he was posting in other threads, and I count the Antifinity quick wagon as begining with Icerint's vote.
Zodiark quick wagon
Kdub
Chronopie
Icerint
BV310
Antifinity
Wolfram
Antifinity quick Wagon
Icerint
Glork
Prana
FCGroningen
Bill1148
Wolfram
Chronopie
Should be noted Prana and FCgronigen were allready voting for Zodiark with me before the quick wagon moment, so can't be looked at for this. Dramonic and Starbuck both voted Zodiark, but not immediatly, a good bit of time passed from the quick wagon and there votes.
So what I take from this is: People who hopped on both wagons fast: Icerint, Wolfram, Chronopie
People who hopped on Antifinity fast but not Zodiark: Glork(has since unvoted), and Bill
People who hopped on Zodiark fast but not Antifinity: BV310, and Kdub
There isn't neccisarilly alot to be gained from this untill such time as we know what Antifinity's allignment was, but I figured I wanted the info out there in an easy to reference post for the future.
Also someone might want to double check incase I missed someone or added someone who shouldn't be there.-
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Glork wrote:EBWOP Again: Devotress, you left Dram off of your list of Antifinity-wagonhoppers.
I believe I accidentally read Dramonics vote as Bills, when I was scimming to write up that list.bill1148 wrote:What are you talking about? I did not vote for Anti. In fact I even defended him slightly from Glork & co.
So the List should read:
Reference this post instead if anyone's looking for this list in the future.Devotress wrote:Zodiark quick wagon
Kdub
Chronopie
Icerint
BV310
Antifinity
Wolfram
Antifinity quick Wagon
Icerint
Glork
Prana
FCGroningen
Dramonic
Wolfram
Chronopie
Should be noted Prana and FCgronigen were allready voting for Zodiark with me before the quick wagon moment, so can't be looked at for this. Dramonic and Starbuck both voted Zodiark, but not immediatly, a good bit of time passed from the quick wagon and there votes.
So what I take from this is: People who hopped on both wagons fast: Icerint, Wolfram, Chronopie
People who hopped on Antifinity fast but not Zodiark: Glork(has since unvoted), and Dramonic(though he later voted for Zodiark, it was a good time after the quick wagon forming)
People who hopped on Zodiark fast but not Antifinity: BV310, and Kdub
There isn't neccisarilly alot to be gained from this untill such time as we know what Antifinity's allignment was, but I figured I wanted the info out there in an easy to reference post for the future.
Also someone might want to double check incase I missed someone or added someone who shouldn't be there.-
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Prana is only at 4 votes, I think it's a bit early to be having him role claim, even with elemental weakness potential. I think we decided L-2 was the good point to claim at because of elements.
Jp's response to glork's pressure was really odd. But it's no good persuing that for a couple days since he's going to be vla at the moment.
I'm a good guy character I'm pretty sure. (haven't played that specific game I'm from, but I read it up on the wiki), all the role flips thus far have been good guy characters I believe, and a couple people have softclaimed that their roles were good guys aswell. I'm willing to bet that the mafia are badguy's in their respective games.-
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He never even called you scum, he simply tried to urge you to post more. How can you sit there and say that this game is stagnating, but than be annoyed at the guy whose trying to get people to post more so the game won't stagnate? Answer this directly: How do you expect the game to not stagnate, if you don't like it when people try and get others to participate?JPSalazar wrote:1) I responded to Glork the way I did because going back, Glork has attempted to lash out (in one way or another) at almost every player in the game. Add to the fact that, at least from my interpretation, it seemed like whining early in the game, I finally became annoyed at it.
Your whole "he's lashed out at everyone" thing is also straight up false, I just went through his ISO.-
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If inactives stay inactive long enough, they'll get replaced, no need to lynch based on that alone, it'll just give the mafia free kills if they turn out to be town. Now, if they're unactive and also scummy when they do post...
Anyhow,
There is nothing wrong with Glork saying "Hey these people should post more" And I am genuinely very confused at to how anyone could possibly have gotten offended by this.-
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JPSalazar wrote:Then you and I have understood his posts differently.
No. I seriously went through his post history, with a list in notepad of every player still alive in the game, and marked people off if he went after them in a way where he thought they were scummy. Even If I count the people who he said "need to post more", there are still people left on that list he never "lashed out at".-
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Iso PranaDevil.
Posts 4, 5, 46, and 55. Anotated versions(check for yourself in full):
4: Glork is Scum. vote glork.
5: I trust Glork to be honest, vote icerint.
46: Glork was pushing hard for an Anti lynch, when I voted for Anti, Glork went after me. Glork is scum. Vote Glork.
55: Vote Antifinity. Antifinity is Scum.
This is really strange to me.
unvote
Vote PranaDevil
What's going on prana, can you explain to me your thought process behind these. Especially 4/5, but 46/55 still feels really strange to me too.-
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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The whole case against icerint as the blinder came from (at that time, now confirmed by wolfram), flavour stated specifically by Glork. So voting icerint cause you were concerned he was the blinder ment you trusted glork was telling the truth about flavour. I don't see how that's a strawman.PranaDevil wrote:The strawman is all of it, to be honest. But most noteably your comment about my post 5.-
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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I just thought of something. All the role flips have clearly stated what the person's role was. If Icerint is really the blinder, there will be something in his flip about a role. Be it "Ultros (mafia vote blocker)" or something else along those lines.
Can we all agree that if Icerint flips. "Ultros (mafia goon)", that he was deffinatly not the blinder, and frankly probably was really a death miller?
If so I can get on the wagon today.-
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Devotress Goon
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I covered this point. If you're really the deathmiller your role flip will read "ultros (Mafia Goon)."Iecerint wrote:I wouldn't put it past the blinder to stop firing just to muddle the situation. Taking away a single player's vote isn't very useful until endgame, anyway.
If you are the blinder your role flip will reveal that you have some sort of role. "Ultros (Mafia Vote blocker)" or something along those lines
I'm just waiting on enough people stating they agree with this logic before I hop on the icerint wagon. I honestly feel if everyone can agree to this than we have no risk of false info off your flip.-
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Devotress Goon
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The main point of suspicion against icerint is that he's the blinder, that's the real reason we're all looking at him. If he reveals as not the blinder I for one am taking it that icerint really was a deathmiller, and am going to read his flip as if he was another townie when analyzing the game.Kdub wrote:Devotress:
I agree that if he flips as Mafia Goon, then he is not the ink source. I don't know that I would say he's not likely to be scum though.-
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Devotress Goon
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I'm the next victim of doom. I also saw the musical notes flavour that Starbuck saw.
If anyone has some form of anti doom item you know..
Also, What do you all think about not voting, discussing the whole situation for a few days, and then all voting at once.
At 8 votes to lynch we can actually prevent the doom timer if we can reach a majority descision before doom hits, say using only FOS and keeping our own fos counter.-
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Devotress Goon
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Devotress Goon
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