Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[DTMaster]

Hey guys. Sorry about the inactivity but I'm slowly catching up in all my games. Since I'm heavily behind it's time for VC analysis to isolate the scum players.

[DTMaster]

Sorry, been busy.

@Kise

Don't bloody mod kill this slot or I will attack you with 8 foot long pixel swords. This role is too awesome for that.

Rawr.

Secondly:

For those you want activity checks, use this. http://www.msutils.net/search.php

You can check people where they've been active. Etc etc. Finally, Can someone point me to the page where this doom counter is? If FoS works like voting then I don't see why anyone is not using their vote unless it's sticks.

Now I'm going to do a quick VC analysis with these many confirmed people, that's the best course of action for me.

Now for some recent questions: (If I miss any, please repeat them since I'm heading off to work in a couple of hours so I can't do a substantial reread)

@Glork
I cannot comment based on a complete picture, but Kdub's 958 is weak sauce. However this question

KDub: Name four people who you think have contributed least in this game. (For players who have been replaced, consider the entire player history for that slot.)

Is obscenely scummy of you Glork. This is a smoke screen question. It thinly veils an intent of attacking the weakest players. It doesn't

contribute to attacking the scummiest players

.

You shouldn't be focused entirely on people who's been contributing the least, you should be focused on people who's been scummy and/or demonstrate links to the confirmed scum flips.

The fact that you didn't state (at least on page 39) that this = scummy reads as a push towards trying to get the inactives lynched.

@Kdub
You do realize that you aren't making an active lurking claim, which says I'm scummy. You also do realize that if someone is inactive, that means nothing in terms of alignment? You are stating the facts without saying your views on them.

Have some balls and state: Since DTM has been inactive it reads as scummy for XYZ reasons.

Your lack luster push is less then flattering to me and reads as scum pushing at a weak angle.

@Thatguy
Explain how Kdub is town? Or Point to me where you said that because your statement = nothing to me right now.

@Wolf
You have no idea if Pran or Ani is scum, but you have suspicion on them? Your 953 makes no sense on these two players considering this was a response to Kdubs:

Do you have suspicion else where? Question.

It's wishy washy on those two players. Obviously something tipped you off to single out the two players when answering Kdub's question. So Why did you single these two out?

[DTMaster]

VC Analysis DTM Style.

Notes: I skipped the first 5 pages to let the RVS set in, and let the real bandwagons start. Green is town. Red is scum.

Vote Count:

Iecerint:

5 (KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, PranaDevil, dramonic, Chronopie)
PranaDevil: 4

(inHimshallibe,

Iecerint,

bill1148,

DarkLightA)

dramonic: 2

(bv310,

FC Groningen)

Zodiark13:

1 (Devotress)
Glork: 2 (Zodiark13)

bv310:

1 (wolframnhart)
wolframnhart: 1 (Nautilus)
Chronopie: 1 (WorseExcuse)

Not Voting:
Antifinity
JPSalazar
killa seven

Lynch:
11 votes.

Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

Self Note: Darklight is Starbuck

Also in this vote, considering Ice voted Prana, Prana is very likely town. I also believe due to the wagon size,
we have at least one scum voting Ice for the busing maneuvaur. Since Bv, Ice's votes are seperate that means most of the
scum is most likely independantly working on their own things during the day.

If this is a 4 scum team game (likely due to the size) Bill needs to be re-analyzed. This logic also assumes Dram is town.

Tl:Dr Prana and Dram are likely town. Bill is likely scum. The remaining scum is somewhere in the Ice wagon.

ge 6 so this is skipped,

Vote Count:
PranaDevil: 5

(inHimshallibe,

Iecerint,

bill1148,

DarkLightA, Nautilus)

Iecerint:

4 (KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, PranaDevil, dramonic)
Glork: 2

(Zodiark13)

dramonic: 1 (bv310)
Zodiark13: 1 (Devotress)

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)
Chronopie: 1 (WorseExcuse)

Not Voting:
Antifinity
Chronopie
FC Groningen
JPSalazar
killa seven

Lynch:
11 votes.

Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

Note to seld FC is Adurmo

Oh yeah, Prana is very very very likely town. Bill needs to die now.

BILL NEEDS TO BE REREAD OR DEAD

Pages 9-11 is uneventful and shows the buildup of the Zo lynch.

Vote Count:

Iecerint: 5

(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, Chronopie, JPSalazar)
PranaDevil: 5

(inHimshallibe,

Iecerint,

Starbuck, Nautilus,

Antifinity)

Zodiark13: 3

(Devotress, FC Groningen, PranaDevil)
Chronopie: 2 (WorseExcuse, bill1148)
Glork: 1

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)
Antifinity: 1

(bv310)

Not Voting:
killa seven

Zodiark13

Lynch:
11 votes.

Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

Interesting. Bill is off Prana's wagon but Anti jumped on. What's odd is the whole Anti-BV-Prana dynamic. I would reread to see if there is a link

ote Count:

Zodiark13:

9 (Devotress, FC Groningen, PranaDevil, KDub, Chronopie,

Iecerint, bv310,

Antifinity, wolframnhart)

Iecerint:

3 (Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, JPSalazar)
PranaDevil: 3

(inHimshallibe, Starbuck, Nautilus)

Chronopie: 2 (WorseExcuse, bill1148)
Glork: 1

Not Voting:
killa seven
Zodiark13

Lynch:
11 votes.

Deadline:
May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

Ok seriously? Scum jumpped all over this. Prana looks horrible right now. So does ANti. Also Glork has an invisable vote against him.

I read over Page 12:

I dunno, the fact he brought up the Jester thing is somewhat suspect to me "Don't vote Iec, he could be another role that means he wins the game" Entirely possible it's an attempt to cover for a scum buddy.

I still feel a Zodiark lynch would be good for town.

Reads as Chainsaw bussing! Wooooooo! I change my mind, Prana needs to die.

Break time

Vote: PranaDevil

8

[DTMaster]

@Glork
1. If I knew about the Doom counter I wouldn't ask about it. Hence I asked about it. I just know FoSes count as votes. I don't know if it stuck. So I voted.

2.At the start of the Day. I saw that the majority of the people on Prana's case was town and Ice was on the wagon. Hence from pages 1 - 10 Prana appeared very town from the vote count. However, the build up of Zork's wagon was sudden and shifted the weight onto him.

Zork is confirmed townie. Scum would jump at the chance for the easy wagon. This changed my read of:

Prana town; Ice scum -> Ice bussing scum. The quick build up and lynch over 4 pages suggest this. Also I was reading around pages 12-13 and Starbuck's arguments on Prana make sense since it reads as dancing around the issue.

3. The fact that they flipped just mafia, and not Mafia A and Mafia B. Forgive me but 2 kills suggests the existence of multiple killing roles (ie vigs, sks etc) but not necessarily 2 scum groups. Glork did you just scum slip that there are 2 scum groups?

[DTMaster]

6. Ice claimed Death miller? Intresting but I didn't read that part. I told you I was starting off with a VC and I just read that he flipped Mafia Goon. This will reveal it self in the wagons, but Ice = fake claiming DM adds lots of WIFOM.

Did he claim at the start of the day?

[DTMaster]

@Glork
"cough" Because 4 is the traditional size in large themes.

Kingdom Hearts Mafia.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12809

4 Mafia scum. 1 SK.

If you think there is 2 scum groups, then I think this is the most traditional setup for something this big.

@Prana
Then I'm going to assume Devoutness is confirmed town. Did we confirm the doom counter at all? If Devoute is lying then we should confirm via Voting and lynch obv-scum.

@Glork again
Since Prana Answered me, it is very pro-town for Ice to claim this at the start of the day. I'll include this in my VC analysis.

[DTMaster]

Hello people, I just said

I didn't read and would start off with a VC analysis

[DTMaster]

@Mew
If you think Anti is scum with Prana, why do you have prefrence to lynch Anti over Prana. With that logic it makes it look like you are linked with Prana. Skip the middle man and go for scumz.

@Glork
Hence why I voted Prana? Omg you are attacking me for attacking Prana who you say should be the subject of the attack given he's garnered the majority of the town votes on day 1. What kind of logic is that Glork.

[DTMaster]

Also I said Bill was distancing. That are you on crack Glork. I said that Bill is likely distancing Ice in the first couple of Votes, then changed my mind once new evidence showed Prana devil was morelikely scum in the later votes counts.

Pages 1-10 showed signs of Bill scum. Prana looked like town due to my assumption Ice was scum.
12-14 Prana Scum due to the build up of the Zork wagon.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 1

(JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting:

AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[DTMaster]

@Prana
Because Voting = reactions = understanding people's positions. I've revived this thread better then all of you guys combined with my vote.

Your comment on me is weaksauce because you didn't even call me scummy Prana. You called me a non-reader which I admitted. Hey Prana, why am I scummy again?

Because I didn't know this? Because I pointed out that devoutness isn't confirmed despite the doom counter? That I assumed Ice was scum from his flip.

All of this suggests I don't know more about the setup. Hence this is a bloody indicator of town not knowing what's up because town doesn't have that information to begin with.

Plus since when did we ever disprove the second kill was scum? I played a game where the 1-shot vig shot the most pro town player n1 because the pro-town player was attacking the vig for being scummy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13337

I told you. My pattern. VC analysis first so I can get a vote down and start something. Then I reread. I'm 40 pages behind and my slot has 4 replacements. My VC analysis is something for me to enter this game to contribute to something right away without spending 2 weeks rereading the thread (and now the Inn).

Then I reread the suspects.

[DTMaster]

People: My goal is: Be useful first with VC, Then back it up with reading analysis. It's a better start then stalling for 20 days. Like shesssh.

@Prana
Hey why are you so touchy about that vote again? Are you sure you're really looking out for Devote because your FoS on me has no logical base on it, considering I told everyone I would VC first then read.

[DTMaster]

Glork, the correct action is this. You don't out-guess the mod.
@Kise

Is the colour on Ice's flip accurately depicted, since it's different from BV

Aka are you telling us that red is different from orange for a reason?

[DTMaster]

@Glork finally
Generally with 2 mafia factions

we'll know as you can see in KH mafia where both scum factions had 4 players, and 1 SK.

I can pull out a day/night mafia game, 2 fire and ice mafia games, the teleport universe mafia game, etc

Where both factions are clearly outlined. The latter is even use Mafia A, and Mafia B.

If Ice's color is different from BV's for a reason, then it defeats the purpose of the death miller. You do realize this. Plus a Death miller works best with 1 mafia faction.

[DTMaster]

Prana

You can, you know, vote to get information from people. Like I just did now. Like reviving this thread because people are scared to act on anything. Especially now because scum wouldn't want to vote in this situation.

[DTMaster]

Prana, When is Devotress confirmed? You speak as if she/he/it was confirmed.

[DTMaster]

Prana, because of the fact that Devotess could have been targeted by a pro-town player with doom and Devotess could be scum. The fact that you are treating her as town here. I don't see how we've confirmed her alignment, just confirmed that she's doomed.

And I'm "looking out for Devotress" because I see no reason to potentially lose a town player through player stupidity. Had I known that Starbuck had been Doomed the day before (and not the thought of "whoever makes it hit zero dies") I'd have strongly advised we all hold off at the time as well.

Also

Are you even reading anything DTM?

You are a nitwit.

1. Devote is doomed. We've been discussing this. But before you cry about town deaths you should realize that admitting Devote is town is scummy considering we don't even know her alignment.

Lecturing me about this isn't helping, and just frames you to know a little more about people's alignment then the rest of us do.

2. Because Devotee isn't confirmed, you shouldn't be crying about how she's going to die and town is going to lose 2 players. Your attack on me based on this is a panic attack. She's doomed. Votes are needed to be put down. This was before I knew what the doom counter

3. Hello, since when did I say I knew that voting = killing someone. Voting = acting on something. I voted, I acted on my suspicions. At least link your thoughts together.

If you think I'm actively trying to get devotee dead, then I must have read the thread. You should link this to say: DTM is lying and knows he's "doomed" us all. Har har. But you aren't. You're just attacking me for voting without knowing that doom = death when you vote. That's not scummy.

What is scummy is voting knowing what doom does.

4. Hey Prana, you do realize that you assume that I knew what doom did?

Do you realize in mafia, voting is a tool that should be used? If the doom counter wasn't there would you attack me the same way? No because I was voting someone who I thought was scummy at the time.

@Dram
For not knowing? I never realized that not knowing = scummy now. I just assumed that not knowing the situation = not knowing what's happening. The game was dying. I was contributing to parts of it since I haven't posted substantially yet. This game needed a jump start and I'm not afraid to get the heat for it. Then again, you assume that I knew what the doom counter does.

[DTMaster]

@Chrono
You among 50 responses are the same. I get it now. Shesh. Anyways if Starbuck was doomed that means Devotee is probably townie then. I'm going to assume this in my future VCs now.

[DTMaster]

Acutally Doom is broken, does unvotes and revotes count?

[DTMaster]

If doom works on votes, I don't see why scum wouldn't just vote and unvote, continuously killing multiple people in a voting spamfest.

[DTMaster]

Meaning in Lylo the doomer wins automatically. Yay. Also if it's one doom a day I have a feeling that they can stack on different people, even if we lynched before Devotee dies.

Quesiton:

When did Starbuck claim doom again? or Dark?

[DTMaster]

@Prana
1. Because votes = useful. They still are. We just need to be cautious with them. Durhhh? Saying votes = useful is scummy is quite horribad logic. I said: if the doom counter wasn't there then this attack wouldn't be so valid because we'd be using votes as well analysis to find scum.

Again you assumed that when I voted you I knew everything about the doom counter. You don't even argue against the fact that I was treating this like

Normal Mafia

. You also misrep me. I never said that I wanted to Kill Devotee. How can I want to kill someone when I didn't know how I could kill the said person.

2. I voted you since I thought you were scummy. I knew people were FoSing, and I asked why the FoS and if it had something to do with the doom counter. Yes true, but I thought FoSes had something to do with the doom counter and people were toying with that.

So I voted normally and proceed as I would normally in this game. If you are convinced I am this scummy then you should follow suit. Just because someone isn't doomed doesn't excuse you from putting a vote on someone who you think is scum.

3. Yes Votes can be put down after. Your point is? Am I scummy for this? Or Am I townie? You don't make a cohesive argument about my alignment. You just argue about my vote. This to me is beating around the bush Prana and is scummy.

Do you see the difference between you and I, I've been making cohesive arguments about you being scum between our exchange. Are you calling me out on trying to kill someone here? Do you really think I want Devotee dead and that I knew I would lock the town in Anti or Prana death if they wanted to lynch before the counter?

You aren't making effective arguments here. You're whining. ANd this Whining is scummy because it's just fishing for brownie points in defending Devotee.

I'm not even attacking her/him/it and you're trying to use that as a point against me of what again? What am I to you Prana?

4. Because you're freaking out over nothing. You do realize that scum is more likely to use potentially?

Here is why: because potentially means nothing in analysis. It is a back door. It lets you flip flop. It's you just spewing long words about someone. It allows people without balls to comment on people, without committing to scum/town reads.

You my friend are attacking me because Devotee could be town? You're throwing red flags left right center in trying to attack my vote, and my lack of reading and me in general. But you don't link that to me being scum trying to get people killed.

No, you're just here to say: DTM COULD HAVE KILLED THE POSSIBLE TOWN DEVOTEE!!! OMG.

You're not here to scum hunt. Thus you are scum, emitting all these smoke screens against me.

[DTMaster]

Kise. I hope this makes up for my lack of activity earlier. :3

[DTMaster]

Actually this is how much I think you're scum right now.

Summon Odin: Use it on PradaDevil

Gogogogogoogog!

[DTMaster]

Actually, Ice might be lying considering if Glork's is right about 2 scum factions (and there are 2 mafia scum factions), that's horribly rigged against town and doesn't follow a mirroring pattern. Also since Ice flipped Red instead of OrangeRed, it defeats the purpose of death millers since that's just confirming that Ice is town, if he was a death miller.

I read about the blind status and it's likely that Ice and scum buddy are working together via QTs to support his claim of Ultros. Just because someone is able to blind, doesn't mean that it needs to fit the flavour.

[DTMaster]

Well I should say, we need more scum lynches to confirm this, so I'm going to assume Ice is scum for now. If an SK flips, then Ice is death miller.

If red mafia flips then Ice is red mafia. Orange Mafia flips are just good, but doesn't provide information about Red Mafia.

[DTMaster]

Oh wait, EBWOP: Forgot with doom the amount of kills floating is 3, not 2. Sks don't confirm Red mafia.

Ice is probably Mafia.

[DTMaster]

Prana, voting isn't stupid. Doom counter or not. In this case, yes I was at fault at contributing to bringing someone closer to death. No in any way this is related to my motives because if someone hasn't read the thread, didn't know the specifics of the doom counter, then they aren't intentionally trying to contribute to someones death.

If you are using that argument, that means you assumed everything I said is a lie. Why would I lie about doing VC first then rereading specific people >>;;. That makes no sense.

I could have checked, I could have waited for an answer. But the game was drying. I wanted to inject new activity by voting. I also wanted your response from it. Let's just say it's not good.

[DTMaster]

Prana,
Did you read, I think Ice is lying and we have 2 mafia factions and 1 sk.

[DTMaster]

Prana, If you are sure about me being scummy, vote me. You shouldn't be worried about Devotee's death if you think you caught scum. Obviously your need to keep her alive and "appear" townie is holding you back from voting me because in your circle of logic, voting without the support of the town is scummy.

Doom counters = you should be more cautious. Doom counters =/= you should be paranoid about your votes.

Otherwise I agree we should do the FoS system. I'm thinking we should change HoS to the vote and keep FoS as the normal FoS though.

[DTMaster]

Actually 3 scum factions mean that town is in lylo. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[DTMaster]

Wait, nvm, but we could be close to it. Assuming 2-3 for scum.

[DTMaster]

Glork
Hey, do you know when I voted I fished out 2 scum. Yeah you know that? Lets murder Prana the already scummy person and his Echo.

Also Ice will be treated as confirmed red scum in my VC analysis. His claim = fake fake fake fake fake, considering the orange and red flips and the lack of other DM claiming (no mirroring to the factions).

@Prana
You said Starbuck claimed after the counter hit 0. Other then the lack of knowing, don't you think She would have noticed this? I'm reading that part now. The numbers are in red. Obviously someone probably wanted to continue playing normally.

But yeah, If I didn't read then I didn't know everyone agreed to Fosing first. I voted. Boo hoo. I agree it's a good system and I would tweak it with HoS instead so we can use FoS now. Me unvoting then revoting will just hurt the system even more Prana. What do you want me to do? Delete my post and go back in time to edit it? I think not. I can't do that.

I can however continue to scum hunt now.

You do realize that scum almost makes up half the town in a 2-3 scum group setting. I based this on a few things:

Red/Orange flip = 2 mafia factions.
3 kills = 2 belonging to mafia, each night. Doom - day kill from night action belonging to remaining scum.
Blind = suggests 3 to a team. Unless Kise allows blinding and killing from the same person, you generally can't use both actions at once.

It's obvious when you look at it.

Finally, I'm saying you should vote if you are confident about it. The FoS system is good. But you have a strong overwhelming read on someone, take the bull by the horns and vote you idiot. You can use FoS if you aren't sure. But you are hiding behind the crowd.

Aka: Vote if you are sure someone is scum. FoS if you are unsure but have multiple people.

@Adumb
You do know that someone dying due to voting =/= obvious when you didn't read it? When I voted, that means I'm voting for someone who's scummy to me.

I also stated that doom = SK most likely due to the targets.

[DTMaster]

@Dram
That's awesome. I would love that. But Paying Yojimbo 100000000000 gil is too much for me too. :<

Anyways, Mod will confirm it. Let Prama squirm a little more.

[DTMaster]

@Prana/Adum

Oooh they are slipping. You wouldn't fuck the town over if you lynch scum. You would be fucking your "town" image of yourselves. You can still vote, Devotress would die, but that gives you added pressure for you to be more right. The fact that you are telling me

Devo death = town being screwed, rather then Devo death = potentially one of 3 scum factions dying = very very very very revealing me.

@Prana
That means a scum faction has 2 kills. You realize that you would be imbalancing the game by giving one faction 2 kills?

[DTMaster]

Glork, So you can explain 3 kills, 2 colors, and 2 at least factions without Ice Faking his DM claim?

I'm pretty sure one of the scum players died at night.

[DTMaster]

Actually, what's backwards. My stance on the FoS/Vote or on Ice?

[DTMaster]

@Prana

We don't know if Devotress is scum or town. At the moment I don't think anyone finds her potential scum. By that logic we should ignore the Doom counter and let whoever is given it die without caring. Is that what you are suggesting? (I expect an answer here)

Yes because as much as it's dangerous for town, you can use the kill to confirm the people who's been doomed. Yes someone dies, and this is only bad if Devo is town or you have a strong town read on him. So yes I'm saying

Doom is something we can use to confirm the person

.

Issues though:

This is very likely scum directed, so we're hoping for cross kills using this angle. The other thing is to remove neutral reads via kills so we don't carry them through lylo, but that's weaker scum hunting.

Doom is dangrous, but we shouldn't be crippled by it. Just because someone dies within voting doesn't mean we should stop voting. Look at the lack of activity. Scum would thrive in this enviroment since they'll just sit back and let the town be in fear of it.

With the kills, you're suggesting I'm saying that none of the other abilities could potentially be a vig or SK. It could, potentially, be that the Lightning is a vig/SK, the Doom is from one mafia, and the Drowned stuff from another group. I have no clue personally, others seem to have better ideas about that than I do. But Doom is definitely not likely to be a SK without making the game impossible for the SK to win.

Hello. Remember the Arguments on why it couldn't be vig? Glork remember that argument? You two are the most inconsistant in your theories.

I suggested this earlier and got hounded over it since the N1 kill. Also apparently many of the targets have been protown. Starbuck was a very, very poor choice in kill for any Vig. Reck by reputation is a poor choice, etc, etc.

@Glork

Orange Mafia = Reduced to Nothingness / Doom kills

SK = Electrocuted Kills

"Red Mafia" = Iece Death Miller

"Drowning" kill = Vigilante

This is horrible. This means multiple kills have failed/hit the same person. This also gives Orange Mafia Day and Night kills. In fact this game is so swingy that town would lose in 3 days in a WCS. There is this thing called Balanced you know.

You know what, this post bugs me beyond belief.

To be continued since I'm at work.

[DTMaster]

No, we wouldn't, but you're missing the point, all the other stuff that you normally do with a vote (or threat thereof) in terms of scumhunting. How do we know that toDay isn't gonna extend till June, think of all the scumhunting that could be done... that you can't do now because you can't remove your vote.

Wait, what? My vote is stuck? Testing this.

Unvote

Vote Adumbro

[DTMaster]

@Adumbro

No, we wouldn't, but you're missing the point, all the other stuff that you normally do with a vote (or threat thereof) in terms of scumhunting. How do we know that toDay isn't gonna extend till June, think of all the scumhunting that could be done... that you can't do now because you can't remove your vote.

Wrong, you can still scum hunt. You limiting your options is scummy.

I agree, prana is probably scum, but your action was stupid and anti-town from the theory side regardless of who actually is scum, and honestly, trying to defend it makes it look scummier.

Wrong, unless you believe both of us are scum and are on opposing factions. Part of this attack defends Prana. You sir are failling to connect the dots.

Dunno about that, as we're illustrating, doom counter is easy to game, the mod probably balanced it with that in mind

We don't even know if it's gone after a lynch (aka a battle). Unless you specifically know about the doom counter mechanic and/or it's counter (which makes you scum) it is balanced as a normal kill function.

@Prana

The "your vote is stuck" comment means "If you vote again you WILL, 100%, kill Devotress".

Why do we know this? Go and look at the previous Doom counter (yes, go research it, honestly, the game isn't about to run off into the distance if you actually do some pissing research before blundering in stupidly). I voted, I then unvoted and voted someone else specifically to get the counter to zero thinking it would be me that died, it counted as a vote.

Hence the point. You have just stated, point blank that killing Devotress would benefit town. (Although somehow stated that it doesn't if she is town... but we have no knowledge either way, just the fact that she seems town, if she seemed scummy I would have no problem ignoring the Doom counter, but she doesn't, and pretty much everyone else is in agreement here or they would be FoS'ing her).

No I thought he meant it was literally stuck. ><ll. Hence my Confusion. I played a pokemone game where a

death clock meant sticky votes.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12130

Dev dying is moot. If Devotress is scum, then yes. If Devotress is town, then we die, and our votes are free to lynch who ever. Either way I'd say Vote if you are certain, FoS/HoS as normally. I already said the system was good. Hello? Read again?

Your claim that we should be voting and putting pressure on... what part of "when a FoS gets to a majority, we will all pile the votes on" do you keep ignoring? Nobody is ignoring people, nobody is scared of the Doom counter, everybody (well, the majority) are wanting to play it safe. That's the most logical and pro-town play to do, you are blatantly ignoring all of this and just saying that it doesn't matter to town if Devotress dies. When it matters a whole lot if she dies and flips town.

Yes, which I did, before everyone yelled about the doom counter. If I wanted to I would be voting again.

I admit, some people could be faking it, but the only people who have no need to care, would be scum.

There we go, we have the ding ding ding stance on me.

@Glork

The other snag is the fact that if Tiamat thundered and Kraken drowned, that'd be two kills coming from the same scumgroup, which I still think is extremely unlikely.

No, I'm content to believe that BV's group has Tiamat doing electrocution kills, and Kraken blinding. Not sure what Lich is up to, though.

Just because we have the fire fiend flip, doesn't mean we have all the fiends. I would be concerned with ~5 scum left.

Also your analysis bugs me. The hell out of me. except for the fact that yellow scum didn't night kill and doom at the same time. This piece is missing. If a Red Scum Flips I'm saying this theory is shot. From my Perspective.

Electrocute is made by 1 scum player which worked.
The Nothingness -> No kill -> Drown is scum faction 2 with players missing and a kill failed or on this second night scum sacraficed their kill for an action.
Doom -> Remaining Scum

But I see the loafs of bread and will drop it for now. Finally Glork, your reasoning to vote me is pretty pathetic. VI and Scummy are opposite in the spectrum, where one is town and the other is scum.

You are just calling me town or scum, with the above average chance to be scum. Words man, mean nothing.

@Chrono
What bugs me about this analysis, this claim reads as if Anti was role blocked.

Here's the actual quote:

I got some weird flavor last night. A big brown cloaked man shot musical notes out of his mouth at my ears. My guess from the description is that it might be a Tonberry, as many comments are made about how it might not be human. I wasn't told what effect, if any, that the singing(?) actually had.

However, Anti wasn't told specifically that they did nothing. Unless it's an omission on Anti's part. Which I doubt, seeing as they weren't told what effect it had.

But Anti didn't claim role block did he? Or what the music does.

@Adum

Yes we CAN confirm, but the fact that we've got a scum faction using it makes it less likely to correct, and now your vote is stuck unless we wanna kill dev.

Hell yea, we should consider it, but because of the pattern, most likely it's a scum faction's kills, so the doomed person is less likely anyway.

So why would you do it, why why why?

Now this person reads as a frustrated newb townie, or someone mad about their partner.. In anycase,

Wait a minute:

Beyond that, we're still very suspicious of Anti, since Dev is most likely town, we might wanna forgo killing him today and having him as the kill tomorrow. That begs the question,

ARE WE THAT SUSPICIOUS OF ANTI? A townie for scum is generally a more then fair exchange, but with two obvious scum factions (with a reasonable possibility that they're both fully fledged as opposed to one just being a SK) it's worth considering.

What did you mean about this question? Are you Defending Him or asking everyone to reevaluate their case on Anti?

Secondly, we should focus on lynching scum, regardless of the numbers. We won't get anywhere if you just question the number of factions, number of players, etc. You just want to lynch them. If Devotress dies, the goal is still the same.

@Devotress
Your posts are lack luster in everything. For someone who's close to dying I expected much more panic or if you just gave up. Anyways, this lack of enthusasim is why the game stalled.

@Dram
I'm bothered by your lack of intrest on the case against me.

@Self
Note to self. Inspect Glork.
Note to self. The players are focused on finding which roles are in the game, but they aren't pinning these roles onto people. This is quite sad.

K back to work for now i'm at 1058 in recent responses. Dram bothers the heck out of me with his indiffrence. Devo clearly doesn't care anymore. Adum is reading as panicy, but he echos Prada.

People who are lurking. Bill and JS. Bill posted a quick question but I have a feeling that Bill is just lurking for the heck of it. That question reads as someone who just skimmed over the recent pages, and that's scummy.

[DTMaster]

Also

Adumbrodeus/ Prada:

Vote Count:
Antifinity: 1 (JPSalazar)
AdumbroDeus: 1 (DTMaster)

Not Voting:
AdumbroDeus
Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie (Voteless)
Devotress
dramonic
Glork
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:
7 votes.

Deadline:
June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

Should answer many questions.

[DTMaster]

Intresting, if this is the case, that means I'm free to vote anyone.

Unvote

Vote DTMaster

Let's see this mechanic.

[DTMaster]

Chrono. No wait. If the death clock doesn't tick, that means only diffrent votes count made by different people. Wait until Kise updates the vote count.

[DTMaster]

To make it more fun.

Unvote, Vote Chronopie

. Now wait for a vote count and wait for those red texts. If the counter goes down you are free to lynch.

[DTMaster]

Wait, Chrono. If the music is RB, that means Anti is not the same faction as the scum with the RB. Likewise Devo.

@Adumbo
If the Counter doesn't go down, I have teeth still. So does everyone. And a Mechanic is revealed.

[DTMaster]

And this Glork? Considering Kise counted my vote.

No, we wouldn't, but you're missing the point, all the other stuff that you normally do with a vote (or threat thereof) in terms of scumhunting. How do we know that toDay isn't gonna extend till June, think of all the scumhunting that could be done... that you can't do now because you can't remove your vote.

Wait, what? My vote is stuck? Testing this.

Unvote

Vote Adumbro

[DTMaster]

Actually, blocking Anti would be pro-town considering he's consider scummy. Good point Chrono.

@Glork
Vanilla Town claims shouldn't have abilities. ><. That's not a vanilla town claim if you are asking if Prana has an ability.

[DTMaster]

Oh that reads as a SK crumb, rather then a Bullet Proof Crumb. If he was BP, it's more beneficial to bread crumb

to attract the NKs, rather then defer them

[DTMaster]

No. Sk crumbing Bullet Proof. ><

I'm saying he's SK who is Bullet Proof because the bread and butter of SK claims is bullet proof. Crumbing such information goes against the purpose of said role in a townie sense.

Hence Bullet Proof clams = SK claims.

[DTMaster]

Aka. Prada kinda just crumbed info that makes no sense for him to crumb. Aka you are right he slipped, as SK or some kind of bullet proof scum.

[DTMaster]

@Chrono
Devotress heard music, not Starbuck I just realized this.

Starbuck was escaping a Tornado, and got doomed.

Devotress head music, and got doomed.

[DTMaster]

I was trying to add some pressure to Prana, but he didn't do anything. I do this sometimes when I want some responses.

I did this in Brr mafia, got heat, and picked up all the town and correctly fingered 2/3 scums. But no one believed me, oh well! I used band wagon analysis, with me being the bandwagon. Go Figure.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13337

[DTMaster]

Will you at least wait till this point gets confirmed.

EBWOP: Was that an official count?


I'm guessing now it was, and since the counter hasn't been ticked, ok, things are looking up.

And this Glork? Considering Kise counted my vote.

No, we wouldn't, but you're missing the point, all the other stuff that you normally do with a vote (or threat thereof) in terms of scumhunting. How do we know that toDay isn't gonna extend till June, think of all the scumhunting that could be done... that you can't do now because you can't remove your vote.

Wait, what? My vote is stuck? Testing this.

Unvote

Vote Adumbro

Votes 1, 2 = Your arguments are valid. Since Adumbro pointed out something very important about Vote 2 since it's been counted, Votes 3-4 are insurance. I think the balancing of the doom counter has been found.

Now onto the individual points:

@Prada

Glork, I already said I was trying to draw the scum to attack me.

No, You weren't. You do realize that you could have bread crumb, I don't know doctor, cop, tracker, water, and other informational roles. When in the second post you do this:

Also, my point about it being interesting only 1 died last night, is because we lost 2 on day one, and I'm half thinking someone may have tried attacking me last night (possibly a town vig? As I don't see what Nautilius did that would cause a town vig to go after him). Or they went after someone else who had elemental properties cancelling the kill out.

Just an assumption, but it's something worth thinking about.

Scares away all the night kills from you. This post goes against your first goal. You're not doing a good job in drawing in night kills. Hence my point about SK/Kill immune scum. It's more benifical to scare away night kills from a scum's POV.

I'm immune to any, and all, elemental attacks. (Which I take to mean if someone tried frying my with, for instance, lightning, it wouldn't do anything and thus would make me bulletproof to all elemental based scum).

You know what bothers me, I don't get the elemental system because

I don't have an element

. I remember Dram asking about it in this thread (skimming through). What bothers me with this is:

Why the hell is Dram alive?

Secondly

I'm also bothered by the fact that the summons are considered pro-town

I don't think anyone mentioned but summons are perfect fake claims for scum given the whole elemental system blah blah blah blah blah blah. Everyone is so far removed with flavor they forget about the mafia part. ><

I present you Evidence of such a case: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12460

Fire Emblem Mafia!

Exhibit A: A Town Player could use the Fake Claim Ability
Exhibit B: All the people (except the Tar role) were all from Ikes/Michia's party (for example I was Mia the Mafia Town Duelist aka The Mafia Goon)

If I find the Link: Harry Potter Mafia: Where Harry, Ron and Hermione were scum!

Kingdom Hearts Mafia: Where Scum were given Fake claims and Donald/Goofy were scum fake claiming!

[DTMaster]

Actually, want to finish those thoughts?

[DTMaster]

Yours.

Also DTM, can you explain what was up with your fake Odin summon? Were you trying to force Prana to claim?

This, combined with your recent attempts at messing with the doom countdown is reckless and anti-town.

You just called this reckless and anti-town. Again, votes 1,2 reckless and anti-town. 3-4 is something that is important due to Adumbro pointing out that the counter stopped even though I voted again.

Supports the theory that votes in succession by the same person, or just votes in general by a person doesn't count.

Me fake summoning isn't reckless if it does nothing, nor is it anti town. It's called reaction fishing. I like pressuring people to see how they behave. Scum particularly hate being under pressure, and squirm under it. Thus they are more prone to slipping.

Also when other people are under pressure that isn't scum, they thrive under it since they love that attention is thrown else where. It separates those who are scum hunting, Glork, and those who are instant tunneling based on attacks made by them, you.

[DTMaster]

iff to work finishing thoughts later

[DTMaster]

@Prana

Dude, what is the point of Bullet Proof and attracting kills if you are just going to expose yourself that you are bullet proof? I'm not asking you to fake claim cop. I expected fake bread crumbs, then said explaination.


@Dram
Unless

Xenogears characters has elements,

I have none. But Mechs are fun.

Still at work

[DTMaster]

2. xRECKONERx - Biggs (Mason) - Electrocuted Night 1
5. Albert B. Rampage - Zidane Tribal (Thief) - Reduced to nothing Night 1
7. Zodiark13 - Captain Rygdea (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day 1
14. Nautilius - Wedge (Mason) - Electrocuted Night 2
1. Starbuck DarkLightA - Ridley Silverlake (Vanilla Townie) - Died Day 2
18. Iecerint - Ultros (Mafia Goon) - Lynched Day 2
20. inHimshallibe - Blank (Thief) - Electrocuted Night 3
15. bv310 - Marilith (Mafia Goon) - Drowned Night 3

Other then "reduced to nothing" every single kill has been elemental.

[DTMaster]

Should clarify, night kill.

[DTMaster]

Don't wanna be TOO hasty with that opinion, in the game enemies resistant, immune, or absorbing one of Kujata's elements had a drastic effect on his damage output, I don't see how it's impossible that it got reversed in order to actually be useful since that establishes Kujata as a multi-elemental summon.


Not saying that Prana isn't acting ridiculously scummy and shouldn't be lynched ASAP, but just wanted to point it out.

This is high on the scumometer. Like a 9 out of a 10 scale.

After all the conversation we had... couldn't that teach you to be patient? We don't all vote until FoS lynch is completed, just because Glork said prana deserves death doesn't mean we should actually act on it till we've got a consensus.

Are you calling Dram scummy? You do realize that the FoS system, while yes is a counter to the doom system, is also the perfect way for scum to hide votes. There is the good and the bad here.

Plus this reveals a lot about the counter.

Attaboy.
We've reached a concensus (and anyone who goes against lynching an outed liar can go play in the electric fence or something)
Vote: Prana

7

I was at 8 with my first vote.

If this is correct that means Dram is able to switch his vote around without concequence to the doom counter. This is awesome

[DTMaster]

[quote=
Prada] You on the other hand are a prize plank who has screwed up the entire day by barrelling in throwing votes, and basically condeming Devotress through utter idiocy. [/quote]

Look at Dramatic's vote. See that 7. Its 1 less then my 8. My multiple votes didn't count. I have a hypothesis that if I vote again this should drop to 6. If this is the case, that means an alteration between people causes the drop.

[DTMaster]

Oh, Chronopie is voteless. When did that happen o-o.

[DTMaster]

vote Prana

this will also confirm my hypthosis on the doom counter. Gonna wait for that red text

[DTMaster]

Before anyone hammers allow kise to catch up on the doom
counter to fully understand the mechanics.

[DTMaster]

I count 6 votes and one HoS or am I missing something?

[DTMaster]

Now that was the hammer. Also I realized since Chrono is voteless the number of players technically is reduced by one. We can lose at 4 players (5 with
3 scum
on a team)

[DTMaster]

Oh lol forgot to unvote. I don't think it's required to vote change but I'll
do it after I reread the
rules.

[DTMaster]

No being voteless, especially if Chrono is voteless townie, basically gives scum a free slot ><;;. Since it nullifies that slot for them.

Chrono = tree stump.

[DTMaster]

Tar didn't even pick up my PM. I'm wondering if he flaked. Gonna PM UK about this.

[DTMaster]

Er. Wrong game lol :p

[DTMaster]

Urk blurp, blopp

/bah post!

[DTMaster]

I'm dead but I just wanted to say Grats. "returns to being dead"

[DTMaster]

I was actually routing or an Archfiend win in the end since they had the ge
locked down before chrono self imploded. Since Glork was sold on the vig theory before chrono
tunneled lich then he could have coasted into te end game. :p

[DTMaster]

Game*