Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[imaginality]

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

First post of the game, and I don't like it - because it's directly about others' perceptions/assumptions about him. In my opinion, non-town have more reason to worry about the meta WIFOM part of this game than town so to start out by immediately addressing that is a concern.

Subsequent posts also raise flags:

Oj's 2nd question = implying she's town while looking for the most likely townies based on responses, hence why I'm not answering the questions

##unvote
##vote:parama

What did you say in your first post?

I'm letting everyone take what they will from it. Everyone's allowed to make their own assumptions based on it.
You assumed I meant town, so voting for me because of that same line is a [contradiction], by the way. Unless you don't think I was implying I'm town.

How is it a contradiction?

Parama sure spends a lot of time talking while saying nothing.

Welcome to RVS!

...

Are you asking if I have a post restriction?

^this is a waste of a post^

Another contradiction, or is it only you who's allowed to waste posts in RVS?

I should've figured people would be using meta arguments in this game. I'm going to break tradition and not use meta at all because scumhunting is more successful when you focus on just the game at hand.

Your first post practically screamed "Meta me!" so the "I should've figured" here sounds non-genuine.

##Vote: Parama

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On Parama: Based on posts in this game I still like my vote in him. But LlamaFluff says Parama is playing as he's seen him play before as town and Ellibereth implies much the same. Are there any completed Parama-scum games to compare against?


Watching UK vs VP with interest. UK's iso1 seems a bit of an overreaction but I think she's smarter than to OMGUS on someone this early in a game. Prob town v town.

Fishythefish made a point about Jack in iso5 that I don't think Jack answered yet. (How did Jack interpret Nicodemus's iso1 as sounding "like he was worried about being too defensive"?) I see Jack's play so far as scummy, but my recent experience of Jack tells me he seems scummy to me as town too. In particular I see the cult comment as a null tell.

(As a sidenote, it would be kinda bastardly to put a cult into a game where players have chosen the alignment they want... but we have been warned there might be bastard-modding, so *shrugs*.)

I'd like to see Debonair Danny DiPietro start to comment on the play so far in his next post, rather than second-guessing alignment picks. There might be value in that, but commenting

solely

on that isn't a good start. Early stages though, will wait to see how he plays over the next few days.

RC's vote on farside is kinda weak.

@RC: You give a 'do lynch/don't lynch' list after saying "I'll tell you right now that I'm not going to play the one sentence post game with Jack, Parama, VP, and xvart. I just don't have that kind of devotion. I propose we lynch them all, what do you say?" To clarify, is that list a semi-tongue-in-cheek "lynch these people cos I don't like their posting style" list, or an actual list of scum v town reads?

I like 's opening posts. Ojanen looks good too. Okay with Gamma's opening posts as well; Jack's vote on him seems OMGUS.

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Llama, I usually don't follow wagons unless I have no good scum reads to jump on.

Does that apply near deadline too?

In this game, with two-week days and lots of players, a certain amount of compromise is probably going to be necessary on early days to concentrate our vote-pressure effectively.

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He's whole cult comment reminds me of a play of his in a current game.

QF very much T.

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xvart probably isn't scum. His 'continued wilful ignorance' re. the QT stuff seems more dumb than scum.

Phate could be scum, yeah. Too early to say, but more pressure here is good.

##Unvote;
##Vote: Phate

I agree with Llama about RC looking scummy. Wary of pops too (the comment about getting mislynched more as town seems kinda like a way to deter people from wagoning him, and I have a gut feeling that his suspicion of Jack for the cult comment isn't genuine).

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Jack, you said Gamma 'majorly scumslipped' in your QT, but in your more recent post (iso 53) you said you see him as 'a bit more town now' because of his in-game comment about needing to claim something. Where do you stand on the scum slip now? Are you going to post it now you have mod permission to quote from the QT?


Pops's reaction to the daykill seems fairly null-tell to me. If anything there's a slightly odd calmness to it that makes me more inclined to agree with Jack and Coug. My gut says town-pops would have been a bit more irritated by the kill.


The xvart wagon seems okay to me, and I have town reads on most of the people on it (as compared with the Jack wagon). Earlier on I was giving xvart some could-be-weak-town-player cred, but he hasn't improved. Among the particular things that stand out, his third comment in iso12 was an inadequate answer to Llama, and him asking for more votes from pops seems a touch hypocritical.

##Unvote;
##Vote: xvart

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Cross-posted with a bunch of posts. Did Gamma deny the existence of a QT? *looks back* Ah, yep. Makes the above question redundant then if the QT thing was just another of Jack's posting-for-reactions comments.

Now that Avatar Mafia has finished I can say that Jack's D1 play here with stuff like that QT and the cult thing reminds me of his 'other scumgroups' comment in that game, where he turned out to be town. I haven't seen him play as scum though. Jack, can you provide a link to a game with you as scum?

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I owe this game a decent catch-up post. Expect it to come in ~12 hours, ish.

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Semi-caught-up enough to say I believe Fishy's claim. Seems too detailed to be fabricated. It's possible he's anti-town Other, I guess, but I doubt he's scum. We'd have to think scum are dumb not to have submitted whatever night actions they have by now so I see no harm in waiting to hear what Fish has to say.

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I agree about the Fish wagon likely having a decent mixture of scum and other Others on it. Conversely, his partners - seems like he's pretty much admitted he's not alone, e.g. iso 37 - might be on the side of those arguing he should live.

For me one of the key questions right now is how much we believe Fish's claim that there are lots of non-hostile Others. If he's right that there are maybe 6 non-hostile points-scoring Others, then I think we have to agree with Fish that if we lynch non-hostile Others too often it's likely to lead to us losing.

I think on the whole I believe Fish's claim. And his reaction to the bus + roleblock things seems one of genuine surprise, whereas I think a scum roleblocker would have thought more about what they'd say if they were tracked.

So, on the basis that Fish is probably telling the truth about there being ~6 or so non-hostile Others, I don't think we should use a lynch on him. (I have no worries if a vig wants to shoot him if they don't have any better suspects.) Also, I feel like we'd get more info value from lynching someone else, as well as more chance of lynching scum or hostile other.

(Exactly who we should be lynching instead, hmm, I still need to finish that re-read. I've only looked at this recent Fish shenanigans at the moment.)

[imaginality]

##Vote: Nicodemus

I feel better about Troll than about Nicodemus, who could definitely be lurkery scum. If I went with voting Troll it would be solely on the basis of DGB's meta read on him. I'd rather wait longer with him because I think that will help us get better reads on him, whereas we won't get much more from Nico from waiting longer.

I also agree with

Regardless, there was more non-town than fishy on this:

xvart ( 8 ) Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus fishythefish charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar

I think Nico is scum on that wagon. (As for the others - I feel fairly sure about Elli, Llama, ojanen and UK being town. I'm okay with how Plum's played since replacing in for VP. charter I think could be scum or other based on how hard he pushed for Fish-lynch.)

farside's pushing for Fish-lynch seems more genuine to me; I disagree with the logic but think she's prob town. DDD might well be another Other faction though (not so likely scum because of voting pops; I still lean scum on pops).

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Oh, that and the fact that SK's tend to be partially bulletproof, and could soak a mafia kill.

HOW IS THAT GOOD FOR US????

Beats the bullet being soaked up in a townie's blood-splattered chest, no?

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I may have been fairly awol lately (in other games too - RL stuff) but I'm not Other or scum. Troll's welcome to try shooting me to confirm that if he wants to.

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I agree entirely with farside's 1428/1430. Hard to see charter's targeting Llama as pro-town, and I think massclaim at this point only helps the scum to target town PRs more effectively.

Re. the Others. If after they finish discussing their points stuff, Fish still claims that one of the other two is lying, we should definitely shoot one of the three of them today. I include Fish in that, because as an Other he has motive to lie about the other Others to try to get them shot. If Fish is telling the truth, it seems likely either the Executive or the Legislature are anti-town-leaning Others, so I that we need to use Troll to help us whittle down the Others. Also, if Troll is shooting Others, it deters scum from fake-claiming Other as they would be caught out if Troll shot them and didn't kill them.

As for lynches however, I'd much rather lynch scum than Other, so

##vote: charter

A pops wagon would also be lovely.

[imaginality]

ani is a good guess for d3x's partner, I think. I'd say pops would be a decent guess too, because he didn't use the scum QT in Caught in the Crossfire Mafia (so he could concentrate on appearing town) so I could see him doing the same here, but Zorblag's kill attempt on him seems to rule him out of being an Other, assuming Zorblag is telling the truth.

All this Other stuff gives me second thoughts somewhat about Gamma's claim of PGO. It seems like it's important to the Others to survive awhile so they can get points, so a PGO claim seems like a good way for an Other to deter people from night-killing him for a few nights.

[imaginality]

Additionally, a hostile non-other flip from farside22, while something I don't think will happen, won't surprise me; therefore, I could be in serious error by pushing for her lynch.

Could you clarify what you mean here? I'm having trouble parsing it.

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If after they finish swapping info, all three non-hostile-Other factions agree about this DGB = non-town conclusion, I find it pretty hard to believe they're all lying. I think the possibilities are:

(a) maths error/overlooked assumption/etc
(b) DGB scum
(c) DGB hostile other

[imaginality]

Well, I guess with this much info out there already, massclaim was inevitable.

I'm an Army Reserve Soldier. Motive-wise, I'm defending America as it's my duty as a soldier. Functionally, I'm a doctor: I can target someone each day, and I protect that person from (one) nightkill attempt for the night and the following day. (E.g. whoever I target today will be protected tonight and during the day tomorrow.)

I protected DGB N1/D2 and Chronopie N2/D3.

--

I skim-read the last couple of pages and haven't got time to think through the Other stuff right now, but luckily there's more obvious scum out there: the motive-cop element of charter's claim pretty much proves he's lying about his claim and as things stand, he should be lynched as soon as we finish massclaim.

[imaginality]

@Fishy: why aren't you revealing your 'mystery ability'?
@d3x and Shotty: do your factions also have 'mystery abilities'?

If so why don't you come clean about them at this point?

@d3x and Fishy, if claiming any mystery abilities you have will out your partner(s), well, like d3x said, that's not really a bad thing for you. And putting everyting out in the open can only help you to sort out this points business and tell us who the scums are so we can get back to, y'know, playing mafia.


The Chronopie-not-town thing is interesting though, what with him claiming miller... a scum cop would make sense in a game with lots of Others, to help them identify town from Other...


@Zorblag, good catch on the flavour. I can definitely see pops-scum, and agree(d) with you about his reaction to the daykill.

But I'm not unvoting charter until Plum full-claims and explains how she knows charter's telling the truth about the motive cop thing.

[imaginality]

@farside, yes, that game does come to mind. (It also did in a different way earlier with the Jack cult stuff, which gave me a town read on him here due to what happened there.)

It's definitely as logical for scum to have a cop in this game as in that one. Also a scum tracker would be quite a plausible possibility here.

So, on the surface of it, my guess would be Chronopie = scum cop, RC = scum tracker and Plum = town cop(?), you = town tracker... which fits with my reads... but then, yeah, mod-WIFOM so... *shrugs*

My main concerns with Chronopie's claim aren't just by comparison to that game, though. They're this points thing from the Others, which, I'm inclined to believe because there's no motive for them to lie about it, and in particular the way Chronopie tagged on the 'oh I'm a miller' bit when the Others started talking about their scoreboards.

[imaginality]

A DGB lynch makes sense to me. There's the 'unknown' bit of her claim and her claim to have been roleblocked twice (N1 I can believe, N2 I'm more doubtful of when there were multiple PRs outed at that point). From what the Others were saying, DGB and Chrono are probably the same alignment and neither is town. DGB's claimed Other, Chrono's claimed town. Probably they're both scum.

##Unvote
##Vote: DrippingGoofball

[imaginality]

@Plum: yes. Please wait.

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@the remaining member of the judiciary, I can't shoot you today and if you claim now I won't be in any hurry to do it tomorrow. I think I can narrow in on who you are if I'm still alive tomorrow and have a pretty good shot at taking you out. If you really do want the town to win then you should probably share any information you've got that will help them sooner rather than later.

If I were Fishy's partner, I would say this:

If I were Fishy's partner, I would say this:

Hello, I'm Fishy's partner. I'm an Associate Justice of SCOTUS.

I do have a doc power. It's a one-shot power of sorts, in that I can target someone each night but once I've protected someone from a kill, the power is used up and I can't protect anyone else thereafter. From the kills and the scoreboards, I am almost certain we haven't been successful in protecting anyone with this power, so I still have it at the moment. I don't think we could be tied on the latest scoreboard if we had been successful with this power. The reason Fishy didn't tell the whole truth about what this extra power was and hinted that it could have been used already was that he was helping me stay undercover and to disguise whether or not I was on yesterday's lynch.

In terms of the scoreboard deduction stuff, I agree with the conclusion Shotty came to that DGB and Chronopie share the same alignment, be it Other or scum. Based on Chronopie's claim and questions about DGB's claim, I am pretty sure they are both scum rather than both Other. It is very very unlikely that they are different alignments.

@Troll: It seems likely there are, at the very least, four scum in this game. I base this guess on the number of power roles around (either some are scum or the sheer amount of pro-town PRs points to a large scum group), and the fact that all three points factions seem to have had town-aligned points systems.

You're not a threat to the scum anymore as you can't differentiate between town and scum, and the chances of you being nightkilled are slender. You're pretty much guaranteed to achieve your win condition now that I've claimed. But there's no risk to you in allowing me to live for at least another couple of days, so I can help the town to lynch scum and achieve my win condition too.

Based on the rankings, I suspect we are currently at most 4 points behind the top-ranked team. This means I only need to be on two successful lynches to catch up with them. So please consider being kind and letting me live that long. It's pro-town to do so, because it makes it harder for scum to force mislynches if town have one extra player (me) voting with them.

@Scum: I'm not really a threat to you either now. Although I might block one of your kills, you can leave Troll to deal with me rather than night killing me.

@Town: I get points for lynching scum. I'm happy to be on an SK lynch too. I lose points for lynching town. From your perspective, I'm no different to a one-shot doc, and there's no reason to lynch me.

I checked various possibilities about whether I could claim hypothetically without losing my survival points. It seems sneaky subtle clever claims like that aren't allowed though. On the other hand, there's a small but non-zero chance that zoraster will be savaged by tigers before the end of the game, and the other/backup mods might have a different opinion on this matter, so maybe I should claim hypothetically just on the offchance.

[imaginality]

@Zorblag, what claim?

As for people trying to kill you, I don't see who it would be unless Ellibereth is lying about that. She's really the only one who makes sense for that. Anyhow I guess if someone is trying to kill you, they don't have a daykill, so if you get through the night okay you should be safe tomorrow too.

@everyone, I also have nothing else I need to say now and I'm fine with a hammer whenever.

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I'd hypothetically guess that Fishythefish used his faction's doc power to protect DGB on N1, but got redirected to RedCoyote.

[imaginality]

Or yep that RC and DGB were bus driven.

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@Troll, no worries, I expected as much, and I wouldn't have come out from hiding (um, hypothetically, I mean) if I though I had a good chance of surviving otherwise, but I could see I was next in the firing line whether I claimed or not, and I was in more danger from scum if I tried to bluff through as doc. So appealing to your better nature was worth a shot, so to speak.

I just hope Elli shoots you before you shoot me, or else that UK saw the advantage to town of having a pro-town-ish player like me around rather than letting you take me out and weaken town's chances of winning.

[imaginality]

Because he knows there's little chance of me dodging his next bullet, and his preemptive basking in the sweet, sweet glow of his impending victory takes the edge off his grumpiness?