Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Amished]

Vote: RichardGHP

Twomz is my second pick for scumz.

I've seen Richard in action a couple times, but his reactions this game have been more over the top than normal for him. Specifically his reaction to the fake day-kill really bug the hell outta me.

[Amished]

@Raider: So why is that scummy?

[Amished]

@kmd: Since you're daykill (if it exists) is most likely one shot, I decided that it would be fun to give you another one-shot ability tonight to help out. I was hoping I wouldn't have to come out and say something like this, but would draw enough attention that maybe the scum would shoot at me instead of say... a cop, but I guess it doesn't matter all that much.

If kmd's kill doesn't go through the free one-shot w/e goes to someone else. Anyone interested in a second spot?

I think you should pick the towniest person so that scum can't kill you or kill them and waste an ability if you're town. Though since you're advertising to give an ability away; that doesn't seem like it comes from scum at all.

So yeah, keep it private.

[Amished]

Hi, dia. Sup?

[Amished]

Not a heck of a lot, just kinda tired. Any reason you decided to place your vote on me?

@Shattered: I hate you moar?

[Amished]

K. I like to get to know people by playing with them and actually being able to comprehend what I'm reading instead of skimming the hell outta everything and posting like mad to look townie (that worked well in my other marathon game as scum).

I'm pretty glad that I have some decent reads thusfar into the game though. I'm kinda surprised you don't, knowing your reputation.

Also, LOL at TKoE.

[Amished]

Also: Should I believe you or not believe you this game?

[Amished]

What's your official stance on Shattered? Is he a lurker or is he town?

Unvote
Vote: Diacria

I might get over Richard's reaction if he actually looks town..

[Amished]

So how did he get into your lurker list?

[Amished]

First rendition was about this size, 2 scumgroups of 3. Godfather in each; doc in one and roleblocker? in the other for power. There wasn't much for town power though (neighbor group that was all town) and a vig.

With something about one-shots being mentioned already (and early claim? wtf @ twomz) I'd say that town has less "power" than unlimited vig and confirmed town neighbors (which I commented on in dead topic of last game) 6 scum (one group or two) would probably be a safe estimate.

Anyways:

Unvote
Vote: RichardGHP

Still the best place to have my vote.

[Amished]

Congrats Amished, you just created the worst vote I've ever seen.

If you're going to falsely accuse me, at least provide evidence. Otherwise, stop trolling.

How about you go back to the first time that I voted you?

@Charlie: Why are you worried about other players lists? Especially when nobody is over like 3-4 votes.

[Amished]

@Ellicria: Why did you feel it necessary to post a town list?

[Amished]

Then why are you criticizing her list for "being all over the place"?

[Amished]

@Charlie: Hell if I can't dictate that. I'm through putting up with this mysterious nonsense and I will wagon anybody who continues to not answer a simple damn question.

@Diacria: The latest one. I'm wondering why you aren't keeping it private, mostly. Since if you're town then scum can be relatively certain to certain you're town and know who to kill to manipulate you or get a decent read on who's town in other people's eyes. (Also, I assume you're a girl since Ellibereth sounds like Elizabeth to me when I say it and I don't know many guys named Elizabeth).

@Richard: I was more talking about your "reaction" by also faking day abilities like KMD did since he didn't catch any flak for it. At least I can't think of a reasonable role that would have both an investigation and a commute.

SSBF is tunneling. Move on.

@Diacria: I'm guessing 6 would be close. 4/4 is too much; 2/2 is too little, 5, 6, 3/3, and 7 would all be "acceptable". So if you go with 6, I'd bet that I'm within 1 regardless of scum setup.

[Amished]

He's basically picking you out and going through everything that you've done, to the exclusion of really looking at anybody else is how I use tunneling.

And everyone that's scum can see your list and kinda see what people are doing to get town points in one way or another so it's only hurting you to put out a list like that. Might just be my personal paranoia but I only put out a list like that in dire circumstances.

[Amished]

CLAIM: I'm the princess, well technically the prince lol. Except according to my message if i have read it correctly, i am only given a funeral if i am killed during the day.

So.. what happens if you are killed during the day?

Suspicion towards EGL.

@Raider: Go back to page 9. You voted for KMD for "long post, 3 words (something vague about somebody else)". Obviously if you're voting them, you think they're scummy. Why is what you ostensibly voted for KMD for scummy?

@Nacho: Read then. You're normally more active than this.

[Amished]

Suspicion towards EGL

Any particular reason?

Yes.

I felt that you were trying to at the very least undermine another players town list (why would you care? If you feel somebody is scum you go after them regardless of who else likes or dislikes them. (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2344811)

Secondly, the post right after that I feel you're trying to fish for how to look townie to Diacria; which isn't something that I believe a townie would ask.

[Amished]

@Charlie: Then why are you criticizing her list for "being all over the place"?

I will shoot you in the face if you don't answer.

[Amished]

@Diacria: Tunneling (which is what I see from SSBF) is a null tell for me. If you feel his questions are scummy; which ones are and why?

[Amished]

I've tunneled hopelessly as town, and as KMD can attest (you damn lover) scum can tunnel too. If it wasn't for KMD I'd say it's more of a town tell. So now I tell people to stop tunneling to see how they respond, ask them about another player, or something but I tend to ignore most of the points if it looks like somebody is tunneling.

[Amished]

What of Chrono and Raider's actions do you feel mirrors your own that SSBF is attacking you for then? Like I said, I filter out tunneling.

[Amished]

Ok.

@SSBF: What makes Reverse's post and vote scummier than Chronopies?

[Amished]

Annoying is a reason to vote for somebody?

Why did you decide to vote for somebody else in each of your posts?

[Amished]

Yeah, I was more focusing on the reasoning of the past vote.

Either way, the only downside that I can see is that nobody is really getting an accurate gauge on his suspicions because of his voting. I do not know why he voted for me other than guessing that I merely asked him a question.

[Amished]

@Raider: A fair amount of this playerlist is the same as the previous game. You should be relatively familiar with them in any case. How do you expect to get a good read on them if you're not interacting with them?

[Amished]

Annoying is a reason to vote for somebody?

Why did you decide to vote for somebody else in each of your posts?

It wasnt annoying in the least. You just are not reading my posts and I find it odd that you are calling me out when you are not even reading my posts. I answered why a while ago, iso me and the answer is in there.

@Raider: Go back to page 9. You voted for KMD for "long post, 3 words (something vague about somebody else)". Obviously if you're voting them, you think they're scummy. Why is what you ostensibly voted for KMD for scummy?

Well the reasoning was for the 3 words. One after each quote.

It was annoying

and worry of my RVS vote. I mean I only get one chance for that after all, I wanted to make sure it was good.

Also you never read my earlier post when I said I was going to vote someone different in each of my posts just because.

Unvote, Vote Amished

I suppose I should really stop this but its fun and getting reactions so I see no downside to it, at least for day one.

Pretty sure you said it was annoying...

Why do people need to get a gauge on my suspicions this quickly in the game? There are still people who havnt posted so its pointless right now. Plus those suspicions will most likely change quickly as there is little to nothing to base most of them on at this point.

To me you seem to want to jump to the all serious mode when there is hardly anything to be serious about. This will change quickly but I dont feel we are there yet.

I dont do the meta thing. I like to change things up depending on my mood. Read the first game I hardly voted and that might be the game where I tried to go the whole game without voting. Not so much with this one. I find it fun to play like that is all.

I'd rather win the game quickly instead of diddling about randomly voting for every little thing or not being serious.

Also, who hasn't posted? The one person that hasn't confirmed has been replaced by me, everyone else is around in one form or another.

[Amished]

@Xite: Just so I understand this properly: You're accusing SSBF of attacking in multiple directions, and then going with what seems to have the most "positive feedback" (for lack of a better term)? Ostensibly for bandwagony purposes if I'm reading you correctly.

[Amished]

.... really raider? You're going to take that out of my quote?

My fast is compared to your "I'm voting for whomever cause I want RVS/reactions for the first 13 pages". After about page 4 of a game this size I'm ready for everyone to play seriously and scumhunt.

@Charlie: So what does it matter if you don't completely agree with Diacria's town list?

[Amished]

Unvote
Vote: raider8169

For the thing that Rhinox brought attention to before I could say anything....

@raider: Scum can commit scumtells in their first post. There isn't some magical time when they all of a sudden say "Ok, I can commit scumtells now". As a matter of fact, the last-last will game I caught my own scumbuddy on a scumtell on the first page but he was already dead when I replaced in (I read the first 5 pages while waiting for Llama to PM me my role). I thought Rhinox was scum on his first post on page two in an old game where he played with VP Baltar and Vi and a couple other people.

When should people start to scumhunt? 15 pages in? Hey look....

[Amished]

No, Diabereth. I was never Wally to begin with. You've got me all wrong. And for the record, Amished is also "weirding me out" so to speak largly due to the fact that he isn't acting like how he did as scum in one completed large theme game I know.

lolwut?

@Raider: Scumtells, by definition, are done by scum. However, to not get into a battle of semantics: Do you believe that people attacking other people advances the game?

Also, how is not passing on votes a good thing? It worked out just fine in LWI. It's relatively easy for town to find other town (and this setup rewards strong, open pro-town play). For example: I believe I was the only scum with 3+ votes. All the other ones might've gotten two. Oh, CMAR got more votes, but that was mostly from the Egyptians (I have no idea what FFFF was planning, but after I died one way or another I wanted the town to win so I gave it to one of my biggest scum reads since I knew that there were two scum factions out there.)

[Amished]

... so why was it weird? Whatever, I'm so confused.

I'll be intermittent over this weekend (obv-holiday); but I'll try to keep up.

[Amished]

@Raider: 1) Passing on votes = *passing votes on*to other people.
2) It sounds like you're just trying to say that you're being a VI and that's why votes are being placed onto you. a) why are you classifying yourself a VI and b) are everyone that's voting you scum since votes on you can be *disguised* as scumhunting? What about the votes that are coming on you after the fact?

@SSBF: Diacria and Ellibereth are the same person. (S)he just keeps forgetting to post on the right account. Drippereth is the same person (another "alt", but that's a hydra that Ellibereth/Diacria are part of.)

@Chevre: I'm not tunneling, period.

[Amished]

ITT Chronopie is Raider's scumbuddy.

[Amished]

Oh whatever, millar was town without the role speculation.

[Amished]

^ If raider flips scum, you are scum.

If I flip town, and I WILL, you are scum.

If Richard is town, you are town.

Wow your logic is so poor; it is almost like this game is a 5 man set-up and not a large theme
STFU

Vote: CSL

for such a poor attempt at flip control

Unvote
Vote: CSL

"trying"? This does not constitute trying. Tying people together for WIFOM purposes isn't "trying". You *admitted* that you haven't scumhunted; and this is your best shot at it? I especially like the

^ If raider flips scum, you are scum.

If I flip town, and I WILL, you are scum.

If Richard is town, you are town.

to

As far as I know, raider has not scumhunted. I know I haven't, but at least I'm trying.

Xite is town,

regardless of raider's flip.

Within the space of a page.

[Amished]

lol you change it after you get called out on it? Riiiiiiight.

[Amished]

@raider: I told you I wasn't tunneling.

Besides, tunneling is a scumtell? Since when? Who else are you suspicious of?

[Amished]

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

What about CSL?

CSL is just trying to be heard and has nothing to say. I dont have enough of a read to come to a solid conclusion but I would not oppose him being lynched but I do not think he is at the top of those I would rather see gone.

That said, unless it changes he should not be around for end game.

So who would you put at the top of your list? With your unvote of me, I haven't seen you mention a single suspect that I can recall.

[Amished]

Ahh, stupid busy week/weekend taking up all my time. Nevermind that question...

New question: Are you essentially calling twomz/Richard active lurkers? (for the "slots that haven't done anything this game"). Why no vote on either of them?

[Amished]

@SSBF: Which part of the cases do you agree with, specifically?

[Amished]

Seriously, CSL isn't doing *anything*. He's admitted it. Why are people not voting him? The only people that don't scumhunt are scum. His reads have been all over the place without explanation and even contradicts himself in his reads within a page.

I don't care that it's plurality lynching; he should be the lynch today.

[Amished]

So, why is "CSL being CSL" much different from R-GHP being R-GHP? He normally doesn't do much ever; while I recall seeing CSL actually try in a game or two.

[Amished]

Rules say Deadline is majority of votes being used. If 9 people are voting, and 5 are on a single person, I believe that they would be lynched; if I read the rules right. But if 4 are on one person; then nobody would be lynched, I think.

@Chrono: Who's scum?

[Amished]

I didn't get that vibe at all; deadline is looming and that reads like "richard is scum, vote him, here's reasons".

How is that scummy?

[Amished]

I never said a request from me, don't put words in my mouth
usually when someone goes, ohai I made a case on this guy that's gettin a lot of suspicion(without prompting from someone)! It gives me a scum vibe from them.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also giving them a reason to simply wagon by going oh, holy i see what you're saying, vote.
makes it easier for scum to not have to make a case.

But then how does this make Holy scum?

[Amished]

As I see it:

We have raider, richard, CSL (with me on) and Shattered all basically at 5 votes.

As I still haven't seen anything out of character from richard, I don't believe he's the best lynch; despite what KMD says. Raider is being more coherent, so he isn't as high a priority for today either for me.

CSL is getting replaced; though I still say we should've lynched him. We'll see what the replacement does.

Unvote
Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

If all else fails (since if there's a tie there's a no-lynch) I should be around for a bit today (no word on actual time of deadline?) to switch to break a tie one way or another.

[Amished]

That's what I get for not paying attention to anything but the votes...

My decision of the wagons still stands.

@SV: Why are you not the best lynch today? Why *is* SSBF?

[Amished]

Vote: Chronopie

Best chance for scum today I believe.

Richard, I thought you were going to try a new playstyle? You're still being useless; who's scum?

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

CSL is still a good second choice though; sometimes I wish I had an unlimited day-vig...

[Amished]

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

Right now, I can only recall me and Magua making town lists. That's just two out of twenty-one people, it shouldn't really hurt town that much. Also, saying who you think are townies is a good form of PoE as it helps narrow down so we more likely achieve a scum lynch.

This is also directed at Magua:

What are the point of town lists? Really, what gains from it? If one of your town reads starts to get rung up; then speak up and say why you think they're town. Otherwise you're giving scum information. Who really benefits from giving out your town list? Does the town? Not really. Does the scum? Yes. For two reasons: they can mimic any/all townies to fool you (that they know/suspect are townies); or realize that you're not a threat if you're wrong about them. This keeps townies that are essentially wrong or able to be fooled around longer which is a major detriment.

Also; since I hate walls, I just skimmed a bit and saw this:

I believe that out of everyone in the bandwagon, I think Amished, Magua, and kmd4390 are the most likely townies, due to the amount of contributations they've made and how

they helped find scums

.

concerning the bolded: do you know something that we don't? A miller is town aligned. There have been no scum found.

FoS: SSBF

Solely because town reads for illogical reasons only really comes from scum since they know who townies are. If Chrono wasn't scum; I'd vote you right here and right now.

[Amished]

Stupid life being absolutely out of control. I will get a big post up tomorrow night.

[Amished]

Stupid RL, catching up now, anything interesting happen?

[Amished]

From page 33 (answering questions; misc. stuff comes later)

@NM8: Say town attacks 3 players relatively consistently and evenly. How does scum know the rest of your town rankings? They don't and can't. Picking off high pro-town looking people just helps them and hurts the town.

About my vote: Chronopie has done *nothing*. He's been actively unhelpful and not progressing the game. I can't recall anything that he's done that's moved the game forward. Unfortunately there's a couple people that fall under this category but no place better to start than at the top.

@SSBF: Have you only played one game with Charlie?

@Twomz: How is voting to prevent a no-lynch when my preferred lynch isn't happening scummy? Especially when you have Holy in your town list after mentioning the same thing as me?

@Charlie: Who the hell is toothless?

OMG stop with the numbered stuff. Stick with solo posts for people; that's gonna take like 5 times to read through it and analyze. Be concise FFS.

@Mod: Think you could post who has multiple votes in the VC again like LWI?

CSL and SSBF are also scum. Why is Richard getting wagoned primarily?

Oh, CPR doctor who "forgot" to use his role last night.... That's 1 step off from claiming scum.

Unvote
Vote: Richard

(edit): Roleblockers are the reason why Richard's claim can't be tested/proven if town. If scum; another possible role might be outed to "confirm" that he targeted the kill and/or "prevented the scum kill".

@nm8: EGL isn't scum. Your case is nothing.

SSBF is also obv-scum, holy shit.

Charlie is on back-burner for now for me.

Cases to come later, other than Richard-scum.

[Amished]

@Jahudo: Why the unvote with no revote?

Case time:
SSBF is scum for the following reasons:
First vote of the game: on Diacria while *stating* that it was for pressure. That eliminates all pressure given by voting; so he really just didn't want to get on a townies bad side. It's essentially a vote for Llama at that point for all the good it does. (ISO 4)

Then freaks out and gets hyper-defensive over ending the RVS when questioned by Shattered. The tone of this post is so reactionary I'm surprised I didn't see it sooner (ISO 5)

Continues to say nothing about the game (other than RVS theory) for 5 posts; and then FoS's SV instead of voting after such a weak vote on Diacria. (ISO 10)

Supports a policy lynch on millar; attacks Diacria for making a town list. It really looks like panicky scum seeing that Dia was mostly correct and going to lead against his scummates. (ISO 11)

One thing I just noticed: SSBF attacked Diacria for OMGUS in ISO 12-13; why didn't he do it to Richard lately with the "gambit"? (Hint, it's because they're both scum)

Despite all of the attacking of Diacria; he hops on raider essentially because there's a bandwagon being formed on raider. (ISO 15) He never even questions Raider to actually determine his alignment. Even when voting for Raider; most of his attention is focused on other people. Attacking people while having your vote somewhere else makes your vote fade into the background and not a focus of the town; ample scum motivation for that.

After the day starts; he's still pushing for a policy lynch on millar even though he's not said much about the claim or why (if millar is telling the truth) it's so bad to skip a day phase. (ISO 25)

(Also note the hypocrisy of calling out Diacria for her town list early on; yet providing one of his own and not attacking Magua for his town list either)

(ISO 29) He changes his stance on millar being a policy lynch after realizing that that was not going to take off. He also says that Charlie is the play for today; abandoning all of his own reads from earlier in the day. He also brings meta into it (*later*) by using a one-game, one-way meta (which proves absolutely nothing about Charlie's alignment)

After posting a laundry list of things that aren't really scumtells on Charlie; he continues to take away from "his" case that he essentially hopped on Magua and Jahudo's reasoning against Charlie by putting more attention on animorph. Pushing for someone that you're not (and never have; I don't count HoS's as doing anything) voting for is incredibly scummy. (Also note that he doesn't push CSL whom he *did* vote for in the same post that he HoS'd Animorph).

(ISO 40) Gets on Ythan for town-lists again; after the previous encounters with said lists.

(ISO 41) Asks for a prod on CSL (remember how he didn't push that before); he now says that not posting here is *potentially* scummy instead of it's a scumtell. He's even undermining his own pushes.

While still voting for Charlie; he sees Richard's ragequit post and calls it scummy (with emphasis, ISO 42. Hard to explain without you checking it). Still no vote for Richard though; what happened to Charlie-scum? No clue from his posting.

Also, he's taking credit for being the first to suspect Animorph; while never voting for him or really pushing a case against him. Yup, you're really doing what you say (sarcasm).

(ISO 45) Uses MafiaSSK's "meta" of ragequitting one game to apply to Richard's ragequit. Not only is it not a meta (it's one game), it's not even on the right person. Regardless, there's *still* no Richard vote.

Then after Richard's claim; SSBF wants to leave Richard alive for a day. This is so blatant it's not even funny anymore.

Lynch 'em both.

[Amished]

OMFG. OK Mastin.

Definitely don't have time to respond to all of that tonight.

[Amished]

Still meaning to get back to SSBF.

If millar is town; scum will not NK him. If he's scum, they still won't NK him. If only we had somebody that could kill at night that was sided with the town...

[Amished]

Whatcha got?

[Amished]

The ease of which EGL is building without much of a case behind him really concerns me. I will not be supporting his lynch. Richard or SSBF is the play today for obvious reasons already stated.

[Amished]

Oh, look.

EGL is making promises he has no intentions to keep.

And I'm also betting that there are at least two scums on the Richard wagon right now. One kill last night suggests that Richard might be the only town killing force, meaning that if they can lynch him today, then there will be no possible way to kill millar without giving scum an extra kill...

And you know this how? (the EGL part moreso than the wagon part)

You were the starter of the EGL wagon essentially and I don't know if it's personal or what but none of your attacks on him look like scumtells.

Richard (especially after the "what if he lived?" debacle on millar) deserves to be lynched. SSBF is a damn close second.

[Amished]

FFS SSBF. If he's town, then he's playing to not die. If he's scum, he's doing the same damn thing. It's not alignment indicative; nor an AtE.

[Amished]

Let's just clear this up once and for all:

Is there *ANY* counterclaim to millar dying last night?

Also:

Vote: Super Smash Bros Fan

[Amished]

Well, Xite91 seems hellbent on lynching SSBF Today.

Who do you want to lynch, and why?

[Amished]

lol; richard went after Millar, eh? With Ythan's claiming of a shot on Richard; millar should've been alive.

{insert intent to vote richard here}

@Richard: You tell me why scum would want to roleblock somebody that was not going to kill one of their members. Though I doubt it really matters what you answer here..

[Amished]

Let's rehash, shall we KMD?

millar died last night.
Richard (claimed CPR doc, saves person if they're targeted for a kill, otherwise kills them) claims to have targeted millar.
Ythan (who made it obvious yesterday that twomz gave him something) claims to have used a 1-shot vig kill on millar.

SO: If both of them are telling the truth, the only way is if one of them was to be blocked.
However, you (Richard or KMD) haven't given me any logical reason that the scum would roleblock a killing role that wasn't going after them. Locke's question is a damn good one as well.

Otherwise it's pretty clear that I trust Ythan a lot more than I trust Richard. Ythan's claim overall makes a ton more sense than Richard's.

[Amished]

@Rhinox: Assuming Richard-town/Ythan-town:

1) A single kill night would lend credence to the "richard-roleblocked" happenings. There were 3 kills a night in LWI for the most part (until N3 when I was vigged and killed by the other mafia). This would most likely save him a day.

2) I didn't see much in the way of millar-hate other that knowing that he wasn't contributing. With the claim I believed he was town and doubtful that I would've lined him up to be lynched pretty much at any time. Course, I don't think that far ahead typically but that's just me.

3) This is a decent point, which is why I'm waiting on Ythan to confirm/deny LL's point about if it's a one-shot and he was blocked; he should get it back.

4) lol. This flies right in the face of your #1; letting them both go (if that was even possible to be predicted (which I don't believe it would be; iirc Ythan didn't say anything about millar, but that's based on my shoddy memory)) both casts Richard in huge suspicion, directing discussion away from scums (good for them), and wastes another pro-town kill night (technically 2, since Ythan would lose his 1-shot and Richard could not then kill in a pro-town manner on N2; making him wait til N3 or even get lynched)

@KMD: What? You show me anything else that Ythan did that was scummy (I don't think he was on your previous scum lists either) that would lend credence to your "ythan-scum-fakeclaiming" theory. Ythan had not pinged my scumdar at all this game, which is quite a feat. I have no reason to disbelieve him from his previous actions nor his claimed actions.

[Amished]

Shit, lost a post.

@Batt: why would scum-ythan claim to kill millar if he didn't in the first place (and if he got a kill, why would he-scum waste in on millar?

@Plum: I didn't like how Richard decided to obv-fake claim after it was revealed that KMD didn't have a day-kill; especially after ignoring the daykill post twice before the "no scene posted" thing by Llama.

[Amished]

Amished- If he thought Richard was going to kill millar, he could save the vig kill, but still claim credit for the kill (relying on some townie reads on him, having said he would do it, and scum powers that would explain why he and Richard would both be town). If he was scum, I don't think he would kill millar when there are other targets that would go unnoticed. The only reason I see that he would, would be to get the town to focus away from a scum partner.

Ahh, so you believe that Ythan (if scum) didn't use his one-shot at all?

[Amished]

Been having connectivity problems. If anyone still cares, I don't have my kill anymore but I don't know if it worked.

Ok, so I might not have the most experience with 1-shot abilities, but if it's used up; that would almost certainly prove to me that it was used; and not roleblocked.

For a frame of reference for Richard:

I have scotmany as visiting me. >_>
Meaning that I was either doc'd (unlikely) or the kill didn't go through due to him dying. There are other possibilities but they're very minute.

Amished, what makes me one of your top suspects?

Woot, town win, yay.

Now is as good a time as any to tell you that my D5 report was faked.

He really does not have a problem lying at all. Remembering this, I don't see why he would lie at all in the first place as any alignment. If he were scum; he couldn't have thought that he'd be more believed than anybody else. Though what else could he possibly have claimed if he were scum? That he killed somebody else and was roleblocked/they were protected? Claiming millar's death would really be his only play; nothing else would really be believable/within the realm of possibility. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWRGH I don't know anymore.

[Amished]

Weee going around in circles.

[Amished]

I've been trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I still don't see more motivation for scum to roleblock either of you over twomz (if we can believe Ani) since an unknown (or even another 1-shot vig) ability would be much more dangerous to them than a kill of somebody that's not mafia. I believe you more than Richard, though I don't fully understand your reasons for going after millar when Richard was ostensibly going to last night. Overall; the roleblock one of them theory seems overly complicated and should be dismissed. SSBF is still scum; and I'm somewhat sure that Richard is at L-2 and I don't want to put him in hammer position before I can really think through all of the possible scenarios. As you probably know, I'm in another game that's requiring more speculation than this game.

[Amished]

That's it! I have to say this because I cannot take it anymore:

MichelSableheart is acting too much like town; he is practically bleeding town posts. I've seen something similar to this before in a long completed newbie game. At that time, it was Nachomamma8 who was making these posts (he was IC too) and practically everyone agreed that he was town. He didn't make it past N1. So...

Anybody who votes for MichelSableheart henceforth gets a free FoS from me.

Is there a reason you made a target of Michel; and buddied up to him hardcore? I mean, for non-gay reasons?

[Amished]

I do find it slightly amusing that Charlie only weighs in on Richard/Ythan now...

[Amished]

Xite, you're my hero.

[Amished]

@KMD: WTF?

The only thing that worries me about today is that I agree with both of the wagons; though with KMD's flip I feel less sure about SSBF.

[Amished]

@Batt: If a Richard lynch could not happen today, whom would you like to see get lynched instead?

[Amished]

@Mod: Can we have an extension due to holy needing to be replaced yet?

[Amished]

@Esurio: Essentially Richard boils down to having claimed a CPR doc (so essentially a vig) and not using it N1 for bogus reasons, then claiming to have targeted millar N2 (with a Ythan CC'ing a kill on millar) but millar still dying.

SSBF is more on his stances; Xite and I come to mind with the biggest evidence being posted against him IIRC; but since I'm already convinced of SSBF-scum I haven't really been paying attention to points brought against him lately.

[Amished]

Amished, what? The case on richard comes from his claim and not his awful play? The claim is what changed my mind on richard.

Xite, I'm not gonna respond to every little bit of the thread. I'm not mastin. Also, if I was scum with smash bras, why wouldn't I just push the richard lynch with some bogus "more information" kind of reason?

That's largely what pushed Richard into scum territory rather than "you play like a 4 year old" territory for me. It's one of the biggest pieces of information from the mod (essentially) and therefore one of the least subjective.

For the second part: who (if anybody) falls under the "more information" reasoning, and how does that make you feel about Richard?

[Amished]

Locke, Ani, euro, holy and charlie. If you don't vote for somebody useful soon; I will slap you upside the head.

That being said; if SSBF can't be lynched today I don't have any qualms over switching my vote to Richard tonight before deadline.

[Amished]

I don't think that was a hammer, Ani didn't unvote Ythan before voting Richard.

Charlie then put Richard @ L-2; which Holy put Richard at L-1 again.

[Amished]

lol morning

Vote SSBF

More inclined to believe Ythan's town atm

What she (and I) said.

VOTE: SSBF

@Nacho: Are the points against SSBF not valid anymore because they happened so long ago? Has he done *anything* pro-town?
@Jahudo: Which points are you mostly confused with? Or which ones do you feel aren't scumtells?
@Locke: What do you think of SSBF?
@Charlie: So? What does thinking have to do with reads? Here's a different question: Solely by gut, who's scum and who's town (2 of each).

[Amished]

Not quite what I was expecting

In regards to... what?

[Amished]

Stupid holiday weekend.

Hopefully I can get a post up tonight catching up with what I missed.

[Amished]

FML I need to catch up. Sorry everyone, post catching everything important that I missed will come tonight, promise!

[Amished]

(opening notes, will be erased on each's usefulness to counter popular ideas)
ssbf is scum
batt slightly scummy
Charlie ... I need to look over again cause I have a hard time reading people like him. I think the most damning point against him in my eyes is that while scummy, he hasn't really gotten close to a lynch. Somebody like that typically gets lynched as town so it's possible that scum are deflecting away from their scumbuddy. Ok, these last 5 pages make me want to shoot Charlie.
SSBF still scum

@Batt: Asking the question of Richard (why scum would block him had he been CPR doc) was a way to see if he would slip up as scum and reveal information about either him-scum or a partner's power. If he responded about why he would be the target and flipped scum; then I would have known that there almost certainly isn't a roleblocker due to Richard's inside information. As it turned out, Richard wasn't scum so the question is now pointless.

@Jahudo: Please link me (or explain) your case on whomever you think is scummiest, I'm blanking on where you actually stand this game other than against Xite's case on SSBF.

@KMD: Can your case on {Batt, Rhinox} be described as "wagony" essentially? (Followup to come)

Jesus Christ you guys haven't said shit lately. Vote SSBF and then we can work with a scumflip.

[Amished]

@KMD: Ok, so then is there a specific other reason that you chose Batt over Rhinox out of your red names especially after

If Rhinox is scum, so is Amished. I'd look for one orange next. Basically, his buddies will be spread pretty evenly on this list. I'm not very good at guessing how many scum there are, but yeah. That's how it'll work. Amished being the only "town/idk" isn't a point in his favor if Rhinox is scum.

Rhinox scum means:
Scum-Amished, Locke, nacho or chro, Smash Bras or Animorph, Ythan, Batt, or Xite.

Most likely Amished, Locke, Batt, and Smash Bras. Nacho if there is another.

where it looks like you're gaining more information from a Rhinox-scum flip than a Batt-scum flip if all things are equal otherwise.

Essentially: Why did you decide on Batt over Rhinox?

[Amished]

Will post more tomorrow since I don't have time to make a big post, but this caught my attention

Jesus Christ you guys haven't said shit lately.

This quote is ironic to me. Amished is claiming that we haven't said anything lately (Which I disagree with, there is always something to comment on and people making useful posts) yet as of this post, he hasn't really done that much scum hunting today.

So... am I scummy for this? How is this a useful post at this point since there's absolutely no analysis combined with it?

[Amished]

@KMD: Fair enough. Wanna put those votes to use and help us lynch SSBF while you're at it?

[Amished]

@Jahudo: Please link me (or explain) your case on whomever you think is scummiest, I'm blanking on where you actually stand this game other than against Xite's case on SSBF.

Ta-da:

Vote: animorph

- I don't like how he complained the day was not over when he still wasn't voting. It suggests he thinks there's a good decision but he won't be responsible for it.

I also find it hard to believe he thought Batt cult claimed for as long as he did. He just ignored the logic that a cult couldn't win this early and kept his vote on Batt.
His CSL and Ythan votes don't make sense as to why he thought each person was scum for his reasons, and his Richard vote never had a reason.
His softclaim didn't make sense from a town standpoint. I don't know why he'd reveal a power role just to say he had it.
Other than that he didn't do much in the game. Some non-game related posts and some lurking.

Its not much compared to the encyclopedia of SSBF tells out there, but I cannot in good faith sign off on SSBF when it looks like most of the points are so far reaching that they make him look town more often than scum.

I guess I'll look for an alternative now that he's getting replaced though.

I see all this and ... I just don't understand you.

What you've said looks to me like Ani essentially just doesn't give a shit about this game. I don't know how it's a scumtell, which makes it even harder to believe that you're attacking Ani in good faith since you're defending SSBF for largely the same stated reasons.

(In case that was convoluted: From your case, it looks like Ani doesn't give a shit. That's not a scumtell really. You've said that you won't vote SSBF when he doesn't look scummy from much of what's presented against him; which is my exact stance on your "case" against Ani. There's a cognitive dissonance here where you're "objective" with SSBF but you can't be with Ani from my POV, and I don't understand where it comes from)

Then the look for an alternative (like KMD pointed out) since he's getting replaced? That doesn't really fly either if you believed in your case at all.

@Xite: learn to be more concise. You're turning into Mastin, and that's not a good thing.

[Amished]

@KMD: So, moving on: What do you make of the rest of the game's wagons in the other 2 days that we've gotten to a lynch? Or is that coming?

@Charlie: Voting for somebody you don't suspect? How is that useful? Make content or die, bickering with Ythan giving him a chance to continue being "active" without saying anything is less than productive.

/sides with Xite

[Amished]

@Charlie: Voting for somebody you don't suspect? How is that useful? Make content or die, bickering with Ythan giving him a chance to continue being "active" without saying anything is less than productive.

Make content, make content, make content. Is that all you want from me? I'm not the best content-maker; this I know and accept. Many times I've been told that I've put my foot in my mouth and many times I've gotten lynched (as either alignment, really). Can't you just accept that I fair better when I'm at the sidelines, saying stuff? For the record, Amished, I'm doing the exact same thing here as I did in L4D Mafia. You of all people should understand this, but nope. Your unyielding attitude is not impressive, IMHO.

And your point? The only reason I suspected that you were just a VI there instead of my opposing scum faction was because I thought I had the other ones pegged. One game does not a meta make and content is how I get reads on people. If you'd pay attention you'd know I could probably rattle off 5-6 people that would not mind lynching you for your *non* participation. "I don't want to get lynched" definitely does not help your case and I'm considering switching over to you even with obv-scum SSBF over here.

[Amished]

Remember how you all can't read a full sentence?

I don't follow the "holy is town argument" solely due to what esurio pointed out (defending me then voting me) and chrono is scum too. Let's just get SSBF-scum out of the way and we can move onto these other scums.

[Amished]

1) Stop with the attacks. Seriously.
2) I need to reread. I was relatively certain that Xite was a cop for the last 2 game days and now I need to get my head around all the events of this game. Unfortunately this weekend isn't going to be a good time for that.

@Mod: V/LA til Monday night, probably

--ninja'd--
@KMD: Announcing unconventional kinda reduces the effectiveness of everything that you do... GJ on that one

[Amished]

@Mod, fellow players: I found out that (essentially) my grandpa has inoperable cancer and isn't going to make it. I need to replace out