Mad World: Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[I doubt it]

VOTE: gandalf5166

For having a four-digit number in your username. Seriously, that's not cool. How am I supposed to distinguish you from gandalf5165 and gandalf5167?

[I doubt it]

Interesting. Question about your list: Why aren't you on your own list?

I find it pretentious when people stick themselves in their townreads. Putting yourself in scumreads would obviously be even worse, but people should just omit themselves.

The wagon on Tasky is not unreasonable because, in the literal sense, there was a double standard there. I think his Seraphim vote looks more like a random vote with joke reasoning, but I don't think bandwagoning onto Tasky has reflected poorly on anyone so far.

[I doubt it]

I don't like Zang's play, but I gather from other people's posts that his town meta is scummy? Regardless, his play deserves my vote.

UNVOTE: gandalf5166
VOTE: Zang

To be specific:

and your anxiousness to be disassociated with it could very well be scum distancing himself from what he knows to be a towniewagon

Or maybe it's me unvoting because RVS is over.

Wishy-washy. Why don't you tell us why you are unvoting, instead of telling us why you might be unvoting? In addition, this post contradicts your earlier post as Karma said.

I always lurk, I just lurk harder as scum.

You're on my lurkerscum watchlist.

Also,

V/LA July 5 - July 12

as noted in sig.

[I doubt it]

Everybody's going to just ignore Zang just because he's playing the part of the VI? VI can be scum too, and in my opinion, it looks like Zang is playing the role of "too stupidly scummy to be scum".

Then again, I don't like TheLonging in recent exchanges either...

Confused his post with another poster's that was actually serious, therefore I am in the wrong (I just checked btw).

Backtracking, plus I don't actually see any "serious" posts at all between the following posts, when I assume you made your mind about Tasky.

I have to admit, I lol'd at that pic.

At this point, Tasky seems like a reasonable vote

[I doubt it]

@Tasky: It is not uncommon or scummy for people to state their cases with stronger conviction than they actually have(in early game at least), in order to get reactions from the wagonee and everyone else in the game. Most of your case on CKD seem to be based on this:

Got ya...and in 4 pages too. (feel free to nominate me on mafia catcher after the game is done).

It's obvious to me at least that this is written tongue-in-cheek.

My read on Tasky vs CKD is town vs town. Tasky appears new to online mafia and I'd expect players without much experience to be more careful and calculating as scum. CKD's emotional response and his aggressive play make him a stronger town read.

Seraphim makes a good point on the personal attacks of TheLonging. Taunting people like that is something I would classify as a scum strategy.

In Iso0, TheLonging's question about posting in twilight is odd. The main beneficiaries of not being able to post in twilight are scum, as they can just quickhammer and prevent discussion about how the power roles should act / prevent additional discussion that could out them.

The question is not odd at all as the rules don't specifically say anything about twilight at all, and it is common to ask for clarification to rules in the first few posts. This point in your case is overreaching and slightly scummy, but the other arguments do have some validity in them.

UNVOTE: Zang
Unvoting for now as the Zang wagon clearly isn't picking up. I'll see if I can find a better place for my vote when I'm back from my V/LA.

[I doubt it]

could you explain this argument a little better? I don't understand it

its pretty simple. When you are scum you die to check the night results early in the day to see if your nightkill worked or not. Using that logic, its very unlikely that a scum would not know who died the night before. Since Sharkfin didnt know gandalf had already died, this means he is very unlikley scum.

Alternately, if you're town you're dying to see if anyone flipped scum so you could study that person's relations to other people and find more scumbuddies. No matter SharkFinn's alignment, not checking the flips thoroughly is an unusual and careless move.

Additionally, based on the flavor of the death gandalf is unlikely to be a direct scum NK, most likely he only died because Magna died. As such he is not likely the person scum are most interested in, that would be either Magna or GhostWriter. I would consider his carelessness there a null tell.

--

I have no problem with TheLonging lynch. Miller claim when under heat means he definitely had to die.

A lot of people focusing on RC when Empking and Zang are just as bad is weird. Diginova especially, who practically promises to unvote when RC posts content.

@diginova: Any reason you didn't vote Anon now that RC did post content?

I can see why Tasky is getting votes: His vote on SharkFinn is scummy, and him going after RC looks like going after a pretty easy target. I'd be inclined to vote Tasky, but I have a better suspect in my opinion below.

SharkFinn's ISOs 15 and 16:

This combines both Karma's vote on me and why I think RC is suspicious. Karma voted me 'cause he thought that it was suspicious that I was suspicious of RC in the first post. I was more focused on the apology because, as you can see, he made A LOT of posts before this so apologizign for a lack of activity is unnecessary. Karma thought it was for the thought of a content filled post I was afraid of. I still fail to see how I implied that, but I had no problem, and still waiting for a good indepth post, which is where I'm growing suspect.

RC's first 18 or so posts from the iso a few posts ago were contentless, probably because of his modding of another game, but Im wondering where his main iso, indepth post is.

FoS: RC until I hear a solid, indepth post on a suspect

Prememptive FoS: Karma for overreacting to my post and the possible derailing the RC wagon (this is only applicable if he's actually scum)

VOTE: Tasky

Reiterating CKD's post. Tasky is scummy. RC is still pending his future post, but leaning on town.

The transition from 15's FoS on RC to 16's "leaning town" is jarring. What happened between 15 and 16 is that a lot of people stated dislike of the RC wagon, so SharkFinn flipped to go with the crowd. Same thing can be said about his suspicions on Tasky, they appear only when Taskywagon has 3 people on it.

VOTE: SharkFinn

[I doubt it]

You are not getting the point and you are pushing a very scummy point to vote Sharkfin after saying this is a null tell.

When you are town, yes, you die to see if anyone flips scum to study interactions, etc. But in this game, nobody flipped scum with interactions, so your point is moot.

When you are scum, you die to see if your nightkill succeeded. Im pretty sure scum look much more the results of the night than a townie, specially when there arent scum flips.

Since Sharkfinn didnt know who had died, then its unlikely he is scum. Its more likely he is a townie that didnt care who had died. That is the basic premise of why I am clearing Sharkfinn. Do you understand now?

I understood the point in the first place, I just don't agree it reasonably clears SharkFinn. Like I said, the scum NK target probably wasn't gandalf, so even if SharkFinn was scum he could have easily just skimmed the results and saw that his NK target was dead and moved on.

Also, reading comprehension. I voted SharkFinn because he flipflopped his position with no explanation on RC when people expressed distaste in the RC wagon.

[I doubt it]

SF: I'm not liking his play it seems (to me0 to be rather defensive and not putting himself out their.

And yet, you are voting for KL for no reason I can see.

@mod:

Prod Karma please. He hasn't posted for a week.

[I doubt it]

Sorry. that was written poorly. I was answering SF not comenting on him.

That makes more sense. Let's take a closer look.

I'm not liking his play it seems (to me0 to be rather defensive and not putting himself out their.

I can see him being somewhat cautious/defensive, but I'm not convinced that makes him scum. He even says that he has a cautious playstyle. I do agree that he needs to put himself out there, though.

I'd like to hear from KageLord something that isn't a null tell. Take some stances please.

[I doubt it]

RC is probably using that Transformers pic as a breadcrumb, but I still don't like his excuse that he lost the second half of his big post and is not trying to recreate it.
I won't put my vote back on his wagon until it gets as insane in terms of delays as it did last time.

On another note, can anyone with more G1 Transformers knowledge than me tell me what a crumb of http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Rhinox would mean?

More likely, the picture references the post above. Rhinox replaced Alpha Werewolf. But seriously, rolefishing much?

[I doubt it]

The main reason my vote was on RC at that moment was that he said that he wouldn't post anything until he had a wagon going on him. I find active lurking to be much worse than actual lurking, and RC was very bad at that, and he actually posted some game-relevant information. Truthfully, at the time of my unvote, RC had promised a second part of his post, and I assumed that the initial prod would be enough to get him to start contributing, but if he keeps posting in line with his latest #369, my vote is going back on him very shortly.

I really would prefer if you used your vote to find scum instead of using it to make sure one person isn't active lurking, when nearly everyone else in the thread is prod dodging and/or making minimal contributions.

In fact, I'd like you to make one thing clear: Do you think he's scum, or do you just not like his active lurking? Also, did you think he was scum earlier, when you voted for him, and did you somehow change your mind when he did post content? I'm not really sure what to make of someone who essentially uses his vote as a prod.


Here's someone all of you who have no suspects and nothing to say can comment on:

SharkFinn's ISOs 15 and 16:

This combines both Karma's vote on me and why I think RC is suspicious. Karma voted me 'cause he thought that it was suspicious that I was suspicious of RC in the first post. I was more focused on the apology because, as you can see, he made A LOT of posts before this so apologizign for a lack of activity is unnecessary. Karma thought it was for the thought of a content filled post I was afraid of. I still fail to see how I implied that, but I had no problem, and still waiting for a good indepth post, which is where I'm growing suspect.

RC's first 18 or so posts from the iso a few posts ago were contentless, probably because of his modding of another game, but Im wondering where his main iso, indepth post is.

FoS: RC until I hear a solid, indepth post on a suspect

Prememptive FoS: Karma for overreacting to my post and the possible derailing the RC wagon (this is only applicable if he's actually scum)

VOTE: Tasky

Reiterating CKD's post. Tasky is scummy. RC is still pending his future post, but leaning on town.

The transition from 15's FoS on RC to 16's "leaning town" is jarring. What happened between 15 and 16 is that a lot of people stated dislike of the RC wagon, so SharkFinn flipped to go with the crowd. Same thing can be said about his suspicions on Tasky, they appear only when Taskywagon has 3 people on it.

I still think the flip from FoS to "leaning town" is highly suspicious, and his latest lurking and prod dodging isn't helping.

[I doubt it]

In fact, I'd like you to make one thing clear: Do you think he's scum, or do you just not like his active lurking? Also, did you think he was scum earlier, when you voted for him, and did you somehow change your mind when he did post content? I'm not really sure what to make of someone who essentially uses his vote as a prod.

I actually find active lurking to be a scumtell more than just uberlurking. I forget who originally brought this up, but I agree with the fact that town will mainly lurk enough to get prodded, while scum will lurk, yet still pop in and say something whenever they're called. The fact that RC constantly has enough time to post worthless joking content and ask why people are voting him shows that he's following the thread, he's just trying to stay under the radar so as not to say anything that could be evidence against him later. A breakdown of his ISO (he's posted 55 posts):

--

Someone who has posted a full 14% of the posts in this game yet has told so little is very telling, and that's why I am strongly considering changing my vote back to him, and this time it would have nothing to do with his lurking and everything to do with the fact that he's acting pretty much exactly like stereotypical scum.

So you thought he was active-lurking scum all along? I don't get your immediate unvote, then. That you unvoted as soon as RC contributed suggests that you were just wagoning onto him so he would be forced to contribute, yet now you're saying he's scummy for active lurking? Why did you unvote your best suspect just because he made an ISO? Doesn't make much sense to me.

The reason I switched off RB between those votes was because I glanced over the thread again and in my mind, I thought he was more likely town plus the wagon on him just didnt feel right with me. I still do not understand how switching from FoS to leaning town is making me scummy, but I understand how my lack of posts the past few days have. I plan to put some more effort finding the best lynch candidate (as my theory on gandalf was correct before)

So your justification for finding RC town was put in the last line of your next post?

Tasky's upfront style to people focused on CKD as scummy up until he swaps to lynch TheLonging. When the day started, he decides to jump on me for voting a dead guy (my fault of course), but then he decides to go after RC. I'm wondering what changed his PoV, because I mean based on his initial behavior, he's probably wouldnt jump off CKD that easily. It's just unusual, plus the RC wagon isn't that great at the moment.

Makes sense on the surface, but I'm not sure this isn't just retconning. If the last line of this post was really meant as your justification for finding RC town, then it follows that you then also thought that one of the bad wagoners on RC was scum, ie. Empking as you're voting for him now. Yet in this post you're still railing on Tasky. It looks like you're now going after Empking in an attempt to strengthen the idea that your townread on RC came from Empking's bad vote, which is a stretch on its own.

What is your view on Tasky?

If Reaper has time write a 3 paragraph post explaining why he doesn't have time to post content, I can't see why he can't give a 3 sentence post giving an opinion on who's scum and maybe a couple supporting reasons.

QFT. I'm not too sure about SF being scum, and RC's play is very anti-town. If nothing new pops up I'll support a deadline lynch on RC, but I'm not really sold on him being scum.

what do you think my case is against tasky?

What IS your case on Tasky, exactly? If you have a strong reason to believe that Tasky is scum please say so, there's still time to make a wagon and everyone is kinda fence-sitting with no strong reads in any direction.

[I doubt it]

@diginova: I still have issues with your actions on the RC wagon. An answer to this in particular, please:

So you thought he was active-lurking scum all along? I don't get your immediate unvote, then. That you unvoted as soon as RC contributed suggests that you were just wagoning onto him so he would be forced to contribute, yet now you're saying he's scummy for active lurking? Why did you unvote your best suspect just because he made an ISO? Doesn't make much sense to me.

In general, I'm not a big fan of cases that rely heavily on stuff people who have been replaced have said/done. Posts from people who have been replaced would be a lot more valuable if we had a scum flip but as it is, I don't think LynchMePls is the way to go.

I like the case on Rhinox more. He has been dead weight so far, with questions that don't seem to lead anywhere and no strong opinions on anyone. With AW's play this makes me think Rhinox might be worth going after. Since some of the case on Rhinox relies on him being a strong town player I wouldn't mind a game example or two to look at, though.

[I doubt it]

I like I doubt it's case against diginova. I would be down for a diginova lynch tomorrow. And yes, this is me, lining up lynches. BITE ME

I don't have a case against diginova, and certainly not one as strong as either Rhinox or SharkFinn. I simply thought it odd that digi would unvote immediately and thought to probe until I understood what he was doing. I think his answers are at least consistent with his play, and if there's anything particularly scummy about his actions on the RC wagon it's that while he was busy pestering RC to post something relevant, he wasn't really scumhunting.

Also, I would like to know why I doubt it likes the case on Rhinox more than SharkFinn's, but is still voting SharkFinn.

I like the case on Rhinox more than the case on LynchMePls. I was considering and still am whether to vote Rhinox or SharkFinn. I skimmed Rhinox's play quickly in Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia to see if his play was significantly different, and in that game at least Rhinox is a lot more engaging and uses his vote, so those meta accusations seem to hold up.

On the other hand, diginova brings up good points on SharkFinn:

He begins by instantly wagoning on Tasky using the vague "double standards" reasoning, then a minute later pushes for his quick lynch. Early on Day 2, it seems he is trying to get people to jump on the Tasky-wagon and hopefully get a quicklynch so we won't have any information heading into D2, which he immediately gets gandalf5166 to follow on. Even though he was pushing for the lynch, he then instantly started moving away, stating that he'd move off the wagon after he hears from Tasky in Iso2, and that he already had intentions to jump off the wagon if it got closer, even trying to deflect over to Longingtown for explanation as to why the wagon started.

He only had a single vote on him at that point, yet instantly started deflecting when the slightest question was asked of him. Someone wants to distance himself from any and all possibility of being viewed as scum. Hello, scum.

Nice catch that early in the game. He changes his opinion on Tasky the minute people express distaste in the wagon, and his "waiting to hear from Tasky before I move off the wagon" really makes the impression as if he wasn't just campaigning for votes. Pretty similar to what he did when I voted him, btw.

In 21-23, he states that Empking is scum just because he's lurking, even though there "isn't much here overall to work with". Just the fact that he's lurking along with two gut votes does not make a valid reason to vote someone D2. There is much more information and many more players that are scummier that are more deserving of a vote. He finally flips again to either Tasky or RC, yet in his re-read he switches his final decision to Rhinox since it was getting to be a popular wagon again.

Also worth noting is that his lurkerscum case on Empking really looks like desperate deflecting from the wagon on him, and as witnessed by his apparent willingness to lynch just about anyone who isn't him I'd say he's a scumbag who's flailing with the noose tightening around his neck.

tl;dr: VOTE: SharkFinn as it will give us the most information after the flip. L-2.

Sure, SharkFinn has said more than Rhinox, but this is a valid reason to vote someone only if the person you're voting for implicates someone else as his potential scumbuddy. So, if SharkFinn were to flip scum, who would you think is his scumbuddy?

I prefer a SharkFinn lynch for now, but if people are unwilling to lynch him I'd be fine with a Rhinox lynch.

Also,

mod: Prod Rhinox please.

[I doubt it]

Thank you for claiming Rhinox's scumbuddy, LynchMePls.
UNVOTE: SharkFinn
VOTE: Rhinox

Wait what?

Now I'm utterly confused... My result said Alpha targetted Mafuyu.

CML, are you saying you are Clare?

wtf is going on??

But... if CML is actually clare, then was I redirected?

I agree with diginova's catch. This reads like a desperate attempt to confuse town/cast doubt on SharkFinn's claim. So SharkFinn is prob town as well.

[I doubt it]

Sorry, been a bit busy of late. I'll try to reread in the next few days and find a place for my vote.

[I doubt it]

I think Robb is VI. Could be SI, as his latest wild accusations are certainly a distraction, but I think we can find a better lynch.

KageLord, for example. Look at him ISO, he sat on the fence whole day yesterday, then tried to distract from Rhinox's lynch yesterday on both of the competing wagons, LMP and SharkFinn, and now he's back to fencesitting. Why do you think KageLord is town SharkFinn?

VOTE: KageLord