Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Ythan]

Dropping a post for the vyp. Anything I need to know at the moment?

[Ythan]

Hi SV. It looks like I'm conveniently already voting for you.

[Ythan]

Yay, first game I've played with Ythan! Hi, Ythan!

Hi ani. I thought you were in Haylen's 109 but I don't remember much from that game. Either way you're someone I'm interested in playing with.

Before I settle down to some intense catching up, my reading since my last post makes me think SV is very near a lynch. Is this so? I'd rather do my catching up while I can post and not right at the end of a day.

[Ythan]

Alright, last game 3 people died Night 1. This is an improvement, IMHO.

Were all three town?

[Ythan]

If you were unaware then why say that this is an improvement?

[Ythan]

Is it just me or would another dead townie and a dead scum be better.

[Ythan]

So you thought, as turns out to be true, that it was two town and a scum. And are you agreeing now that this would be good? So why the original statement?

[Ythan]

I'm still not getting how your original statement made sense to say but I guess that's that.

[Ythan]

I'd rather not say.

[Ythan]

I think you misunderstand your ability. I got something this morning.

[Ythan]

Twomz is town.

[Ythan]

Vote: EGL

Explanation comes tomorrow.

Then a non-EGL lynch comes today.

[Ythan]

No, if that was the reason he would have said so.

[Ythan]

It is anti-town to push a lynch without saying why. If he continues to push it with promises of explanation tomorrow he may as well claim lyncher.

[Ythan]

It was one post. I'm hoping he'll just explain himself or not try to push it into a lynch.

[Ythan]

And CSL, that came off as pretty lynch-happy.

[Ythan]

poorly-supported-lynch-happy*.

[Ythan]

Hey Twomz, millar says his ability only works if he's lynched.

[Ythan]

Kmd, Twomz is town. I said so already.

[Ythan]

That's weak.

[Ythan]

The former.

[Ythan]

Nice.

[Ythan]

Vote: Xite

Oh My God, You Suck.

Why is there no votes on him for this?

You mean between the two posts that had occurred since?

Ythan: why do you think Twomz is town?

I can show you tonight.

Wait is Xite calling a princess a town asset?

[Ythan]

Idiots. Don't worry about millar today okay? Someone else.

[Ythan]

Smiley Cop says "USELESS INFO"

Could you just stop posting until someone vigs you thanks.

[Ythan]

Rhinox is right.

Ani is right.

Is it not true that he has claimed a lynch-only beloved princess?

[Ythan]

Inexplicably uncomfortable. Okay.

[Ythan]

I created the OMGUS vote as a gambit to see if I could form a wagon on myself, whereupon I would analyse the votes to determine the scum who latched onto an easy vote.

This is just as bullshit as it has been any other time another player has posted it.

[Ythan]

I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt in a game based on suspicion when you say you were acting scummy in order to accuse people who attacked your scummy play.

[Ythan]

I trust an inventor to be town in a game based around the will mechanic and not strange roles. Raider give reasoning why Charlie is scummy if you're going to accuse him of not giving reasoning.

[Ythan]

I have not observed this in practice but I would think that having a record of town suspects would achieve the same results as having a record of scum suspects from a player. It forces consistency and minimizes allowable opportunism.

[Ythan]

Attempting to dismiss my assumption, for which I provided evidence, without acknowledging that evidence in the least, noted.

[Ythan]

I trust an inventor to be town in a game based around the will mechanic and not strange roles.

[Ythan]

I think that I'll speculate as I please.

[Ythan]

I intended to prove that he was an inventor. I expected that other players would believe as I did that it was most likely a town role.

[Ythan]

The purpose of a vote is to lynch. Until I'm ready for a lynch there is no purpose in my voting other than for you to use the votecount to approximate who is active.

[Ythan]

Votes are also for applying pressure and providing information for the town. By not voting you're relieving pressure on those you suspect and denying information to the town.

I think I do alright applying pressure when I want to apply pressure, anyone who has ever been in a game with me before. I vote when something like two quotes down happens.

I have not observed this in practice but I would think that having a record of town suspects would achieve the same results as having a record of scum suspects from a player. It forces consistency and minimizes allowable opportunism.

How so? Making Town Lists, while not bad IMO, is more risky then making scum lists. By doing Town Lists, you are putting a person at a higher risk of being NK'd. And consider this, what if scum made your town list?

This overlaps 0% with what I was talking about. I'm talking about how a town list just like a scum list forces someone to take a stand and stick to it or face suspicion for waffling.

Pittbunny, you should believe that I was gambiting (and not backtracking) because I said so. As a townie I have no reason to make real OMGUS votes and attempt to cover it up afterwards. As scum, it would be a nail in the coffin. The only

logical

explanation is gambiting. The outcome of the gambit is not indicative of alignment.

vote RichardGHP

Neither Ythan nor anyone has the unequivocal right...

Richard. It's a game and you're scummy. /discussion

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

Cry me a fucking river. Responses to your play in this thread are entirely indicative of the quality of that play, and hardly over any line as far as I have seen.

I think lynching him would be easier on the mod and better for town anyways, so lets do it?

Note, review Xite re: Richard tomorrow.

[Ythan]

The sort of player who will quit under pressure has just as much reason to do so as town.

[Ythan]

And you just provided a COMPLETELY irrelevant example of another player who is not even in this game doing it. You really reached to support this didn't you?

[Ythan]

Point one, townies do this plenty often. You should spend some time in the newbie queue. And, I know you're new to the site, but it's quite unbelievable that you're attempting to make this distinction.

Point two, no, it's completely irrelevant. You're using player B meta to justify an attack on player A. This is deplorably wrong.

[Ythan]

I'm not talking about Richard. It's not only newbies that replace out under pressure. I said that because it's much more common there. Both points still stand.

[Ythan]

I assume it happens on both sides. It's the sign of a bad player, not a scumtell. That said, I agree with many of the scum thoughts against richard and have posted my own.

For the sake of moving the game along

unvote x2, vote: richard x2

. If richard claims/calms down/starts posting helpfully I may move back to charlie.

What do you think of Fan trying to paint it as a purely scum action?

[Ythan]

unvote

I can dig it.

[Ythan]

How well does that work when you say "Hey scum, we'll lynch him if you don't kill him tonight."

[Ythan]

What evidence do you think could come from letting him live that would actually be sufficient to let him live further?

[Ythan]

I think that if you plan to leave him alive one night to analyze the result but you don't have any specific outcomes in mind you're setting yourself up to waste time.

[Ythan]

Hey look.

[Ythan]

Pretty standard really.

[Ythan]

Oh now I get the self targeting talk. Why would he kill himself?

[Ythan]

Asking him to kill himself instead?

[Ythan]

I suppose if faced with a lynch he knows to be a mislynch it would be the pro-town thing to do.

[Ythan]

No I have not claimed any kills.

[Ythan]

That is an incredibly flimsy reason to call someone confirmed town.

[Ythan]

Oh hi.

[Ythan]

Did Ben claim princess before I softclaimed my one-shot?

[Ythan]

Oh my bad. I thought "antitown" and for some reason Ben came up instead of Millar.

[Ythan]

When you say tomorrow do you mean tonight?

[Ythan]

And by real do you mean?

[Ythan]

What do you mean by qualifying it with real?

[Ythan]

I'm feeling the Rich wagon. Need to look at the EGL one more in depth.

[Ythan]

Preventing a kill on him would have been informative.

[Ythan]

Convenient? You understand that he's not a vig, right?

[Ythan]

More as in something to address your attempt to undermine his explanation without an actual point?

[Ythan]

Okay that is an interesting contradiction.

[Ythan]

Reminds you of. Cool.

[Ythan]

You mean the town of whom it reminds you?

[Ythan]

No, just digging out clarity.

[Ythan]

I'd still like to see Rich lynched for all that if nobody has any plans to confirm his claim.

[Ythan]

You think he's town because his play is so scummy that he can't be scum?

[Ythan]

Your argument seems to be that he'd never play that badly as scum, ignoring that it's just as wrong and unlikely for him to play that bad as town.

[Ythan]

There is no logical reasoning for his play in any role or with any alignment. The fact that he wouldn't do it as scum doesn't mean he's town if he wouldn't do it there either. If his town play is scummy I still don't think it can be dismissed unless a convincing analysis of his scum play can show that it is different.

[Ythan]

Me specifically? Okay. I'm not voting because I'm trying to determine whether the Rich lynch is actually going to happen. I can put my vote there if it will alleviate any concerns you may be feeling. Know that it is where my greatest suspicion lies. I'll be around before the deadline so don't worry about my missing vote being a problem.

[Ythan]

So you guys are just going to lynch off your town tracker?

Was this necessary in the least?

[Ythan]

Because it's an appeal to emotion? Like, textbook?

[Ythan]

Did you not see the part I quoted? The part that I'm criticizing? I quoted it because it was the part I was criticizing; I had hoped you wouldn't go on about the part I didn't quote instead.

[Ythan]

I used my one-shot kill from Twomz on millar. Richard is lying about his action last night.

vote Richard x3

[Ythan]

I killed him because the only thing that saved his neck was that day-BP claim. I wasn't intentionally crumbing per se but I think it's pretty clear from discussion yesterday that I always intended to do this.

[Ythan]

Especially SSBF's "Why'd you target millar" given the repetition of "millar must die" that was D2.

Same for Battousai.

[Ythan]

Twomz was alive last night. I doubt he was killed and blocked.

[Ythan]

And the FoS seems a bit heavy handed.

[Ythan]

If Ythan was blocked, wouldn't he be told that he still has his kill? Ythan, can you clarify whether or not you get to keep your kill if your action is blocked?

I have not received any indication that I still have it.

I can claim if that will help get Richard lynched and is necessary.

[Ythan]

PMed the mod.

[Ythan]

Been having connectivity problems. If anyone still cares, I don't have my kill anymore but I don't know if it worked.

[Ythan]

Why am I seeing wagons on anyone other than me or Richard right now.

[Ythan]

I'm not sure that ani has been reading the whole thread. He is fortunate that I have role-based information in another case so that he can wait until tomorrow.

[Ythan]

You definitely haven't been reading the thread. If you had you would not be calling the shit we have been talking about more than anything else today a "secret scumtell." Please go back and read the thread from the beginning of the day (or the first page if you haven't been keeping up at all and you want to be useful).

[Ythan]

Well, I've been following this day, and I am not going to read the whole thread again.

How does you paying attention jive with your complete lack of understanding regarding the me v richard situation?

[Ythan]

I think it's unlikely. Earlier reads plus role evidence that leans toward him being scum.

[Ythan]

Like you're contributing.

[Ythan]

Xite I'm in more than one game with you. I know you're terrible in at least one of them but I'm not sure if this is one. After your FoS without an actual "I find you suspicious because" I'm going to check. It's as if you're leaping at an opportunity to disagree with something I say and somehow conflate that with proper suspicion. Most likely an attempt to discredit my beneficial position as prob-town with good information.

[Ythan]

It's kind of central to the town speculation that's been going on all day.

[Ythan]

Then may I ask what you've been doing today?

[Ythan]

Why don't you reread the line you underlined and see if it makes any sense in the context of this game.

[Ythan]

There you go. And now to attack your actual meaning. I have expressed no opinion on any player tunneling myself or Richard. Disregarding a clear conflict of information is different from that. If a cop claims a guilty result and you go looking for a wagon outside of those two players you're doing it wrong. This is a less clear example of the same principle.

[Ythan]

There is no reason to assume that it bypassed protection.

[Ythan]

Just curious why you brought it up then.

[Ythan]

I'd like to know that information, plox

I had a one shot kill.

I used it on a player.

A claimed CPR doctor claimed to have targeted that same player.

The player died.

We've been talking about it all day.

[Ythan]

Richard you're doing a really awful job of defending yourself.

[Ythan]

Guesses, really?

[Ythan]

I find your refusal to even acknowledge the benefit of our role information and the fact that today you've primarily been attempting to discredit it suspect.

[Ythan]

By the way, Ythan, did you comment on the possibility of Richard being blocked? couldn't find it in a quick reread.

I see no advantage for scum in doing that and it's an unnecessary complication when the much simpler answer is that he's lying.

[Ythan]

No you.

[Ythan]

Currently not liking the Ythan/Batt/MSH debate.

Then do something about it instead of vaguely whining.

[Ythan]

1483 makes very little sense. Batt, could you please rearrange it into one coherent thought?

Your oeuvre makes little sense. Richard, could you please rearrange it so it contains at least one coherent thought?

[Ythan]

Why the hell is this day not over.

[Ythan]

Batt please cease to be a fool.

[Ythan]

If you're just going to bitch about (perceived) grammatical flaws like a little, well, bitch, then why don't you go sit in the corner until the rest of us are finished playing the game.

[Ythan]

Even if my post was not correct, post something useful instead of whatever it is that you are doing. Something like trying to make an actual case. Or, if you can't do that, not posting.

[Ythan]

Why hasn't Richard been lynched, is useful?

Talk about grammar.

Anyway, it's a hell of a lot more relevant to the game than anything I'm seeing you post.

[Ythan]

I'm paying attention to the game. I'm not paying much attention to what you're trying to do because it's pointless and foolish and possibly scum-motivated, and we have much better things to do today as non fools/scum/pointless people.

[Ythan]

Nice contribution! Yeah you're not doing shit and this just clenches it.

[Ythan]

Kmd I think I need to read you on iso you post lately just haven't sat well with me

Way to contribute. Are you following up on this ever? I hope so.

[Ythan]

The same thing that happens

any time in any game a lynchee flips town

.

[Ythan]

Morning folks.

[Ythan]

I don't really have anything to add at the moment. I need to redo isos. Sorry but this game is just less interesting than that other one I'm in and my time is limited.

[Ythan]

Batt's using the old "scum wouldn't act scummy" argument.

[Ythan]

I might suddenly have more time for this game!

[Ythan]

The more mod warnings I get the less I feel Doc Savage is the most appropriate avatar. Then it struck me, this is perfect.

[Ythan]

I used to think of the movie as a guilty pleasure but after seeing the I bite my thumb scene today for the first time in ages it is hee larious.

[Ythan]

Ho hum.

[Ythan]

I have a thing for scummy avatars.

[Ythan]

Anyone come after me yesterday who knew that the lynch would be Richard and that he'd flip town?

[Ythan]

Ho ho hum.

[Ythan]

I don't really have anything to contribute, I'm just waiting until it's time to put my obvtown status to use.

[Ythan]

If you want to make a statement with your votes then don't announce as much when you do it. Who is still trying to waste their time with "Wait why is Ythan obvtown" like they haven't been keeping up with the game? Someone who either doesn't get it or is running out of avenues to pursue as scum.

[Ythan]

Okay Xite thanks for your advice.

[Ythan]

I am for you.

[Ythan]

Maybe someone other than SSBF should repeat that criticism.

[Ythan]

I'm going to stay active enough in this game to not be replaced out by normal means. That's just the way it is. Also, nothing besides my lack of interest in the game has earned me anything but town points.

[Ythan]

Then it's too damn bad I got the kill. And used it the way I did that everyone seems to have been pretty happy with.

[Ythan]

You're welcome for giving you the opportunity to turn your poor case against me into a vote.

[Ythan]

Congrats Amished, you just created the worst vote I've ever seen.

If you're going to falsely accuse me, at least provide evidence. Otherwise, stop trolling.

It still makes me mad that we can see a post like this and not be certain that it comes from scum.

By the way this is my "I'm reading isos now" notification.

[Ythan]

I'll be keeping a closer eye on Plum when her turn comes around. That's what she gets for replacing raider.

[Ythan]

vote Super Smash Bros. Fan x4

And that comes before even getting to his own iso. Should not be alive at this point in the game, would not be if I had been more involved thus far.

[Ythan]

Plum, Fan, Xite.

[Ythan]

Touchy. Is there something wrong with asking a simple question without the strong language?

[Ythan]

I need to reread Nacho (after the read I just gave him), either when I come back after getting some sleep or after I read everyone else once. Because he looks pretty bad (but not necessarily scummy) and that hopefully is not right.

[Ythan]

Charlie just said that he has a town read on me and then voted me. Any justification of this vote by sheeping Bat is stripped away by the fact that lol I'm posting. Charlie this really does not look good.

[Ythan]

I know right? It does not look good and probably isn't good too. But I feel this is the right thing to do. I hope I'm wrong about my town-read on you!

HoS Charlie x4

In your next game try to get scum lynched, not suspected townies.

[Ythan]

Plum, Fan, Xite.

Ythan what's this mean?

Likelyscum. Add Charlie to that list now.

[Ythan]

Bat and ani are possiblescum but nowhere near as good as Fan and Xite. Plum (raider actually) requires a bit more reading.

[Ythan]

It's a forum. I can read your post without you repeating yourself over and over. Unless you think I am a dayvig now is the time to chill the fuck out and wait your turn.

[Ythan]

Raider was on my list from bits of him in other people's isos. Now that I've gotten to him he isn't just scummy, he's awful. If his whole iso is as ridiculous as the first page and Plum isn't scummy herself, he's not on my list for today.

[Ythan]

Yes, whoever called him a VI (I just saw his response) had it exactly right. I mean how long did he spend on that argument based on not knowing what a bp is? So yeah, not comfortable with him as the lynch unless Plum is worse which I doubt.

[Ythan]

Because you're awful?

[Ythan]

Okay.

[Ythan]

"try to get scum lynched"

"try to get"

"try"

That isn't an inkling of shit. And if you're going to throw around the word useless then take a look at your own play.

[Ythan]

Took you a while to notice. Trying to make a point?

[Ythan]

If Plum

is

scum as raider's replacement then at least she has been attacking players I like even less (in a town versus scum way) since she got here. VI replaced by innocent or heavy busser. I'd prefer a not Plum lynch today. That means Chuck/Fan/Xite at the moment.

[Ythan]

Maybe the mod was trying to tell you something. Vote for him.

[Ythan]

That's the spirit. Is it Plum you're after or raider?

[Ythan]

Bat's been pretty inconsistent with his "suspicion" level against me since he got here. Or opportunistic, if that's a better word. He's not obvscum like some other(s) though.

[Ythan]

I gave my reasons why VERY recently. Like I said, I really doubted raider was scum, but I got a bad vibe from plum, and then she spoke as there were already town flips that there weren't. I'm positive it was a confused scumslip

If that's it then yes it is probably best for you to come around to a better fleshed out wagon for today.

[Ythan]

Do you suspect Fan more or do you think he's just a more likely lynch?

[Ythan]

Tybalt, I remember you being very chatty and "useful" in my limited experience with you. You are not the same here.

You really have some kind of deep seated problem with keeping up don't you.

[Ythan]

Look at you still talking when there's reading to do.

[Ythan]

I'm town, Kmd just can't tell because he skims and sheeps.

[Ythan]

Unfortunately, Fan is still obvscum.

[Ythan]

Batt is not obvscum like Fan. He's not good but he's not as bad as at least one other player.

[Ythan]

Besides the obvious problems with Charlie calling me a good mislynch there is the problem of his reasoning. Since I've started posting.

[Ythan]

Chuck that's not even close to a response. You're still trying to justify lynching a town read based on the fact that I'm not participating. Except...

[Ythan]

Chuck please learn to read and then apply it to this game. I'm enjoying being in a game where I don't have to talk around some blithering idiot so please don't be that guy.

[Ythan]

You foolish fool. I'm not going to baby you so if you want to take part in a dialogue you can go back and actually respond to the things literally in my preceding posts. If not then you can leave it.

[Ythan]

What is it that you want from me?

To understand simple concepts.

[Ythan]

Secondary wincon, make someone cry, check.

[Ythan]

Let's not. Fan is much worse. Charlie is not my number one favorite player in the game but he's not bad.

[Ythan]

That is an incredibly damning slip though.

[Ythan]

We've all seen obvscum flip town. But you're trying to use that to say that only weak evidence should be used, or something crazy. I'm more certain about you now.

[Ythan]

He probably doesn't know what he's up against exactly. He does not say that there IS an opposing faction.

[Ythan]

Plum's defense, I think, just incriminates them both even more.

[Ythan]

Mistakes are the entire basis of scumhunting. This is just a big mistake.

[Ythan]

I'm waiting for him to get here but I probably will too. And I really thought he was town too.

[Ythan]

Kmd either get involved or shut the fuck up because that's less than useless.

[Ythan]

Point taken, I should read better. However, Plum's defense did, not mentioning that obvious flaw, is still just as suspect, and that casts suspicion on him as well as her defendee.

[Ythan]

Get a flip of one of us and then you can talk.

Scummy. As. Fuck. When people say that it doesn't matter without absolute evidence of their alignment then they are SUPER flailing.

[Ythan]

Remember how Fan is obvscum?

[Ythan]

Not you.

[Ythan]

Blind town or scum who aren't voting Fan.

[Ythan]

Looking at some of Fan's points, particularly the one about Ed's "slip", makes me think he isn't reading very closely. I made the mistake at first, but now that we've all gone over the mistake I think it's pretty obvious.

[Ythan]

Mod-waiting?

[Ythan]

Is Kmd still whining about me having twice as many votes as him?

I guess if someone agreed you'd be the one with four votes.

[Ythan]

No! I refuse to explain myself to mafia. You can still talk to the others here; but you can't convince me to switch my vote off you or give you explanations.

You're awful.

[Ythan]

I wonder if Batt is going to actually commit to anything or just throw out numbers. IoA.

[Ythan]

Yeah by all means feel free to lurk.

[Ythan]

I could either throw a vote out every time I criticize the way you're playing or you could just eat a dick.

[Ythan]

Boo hoo I told you to eat a dick. Get over it, quit whining like a little bitch, and play the game. You aren't doing shit, and I'm only about 45% sure that your complete lack of participation would be good for the game. How's that for decency?

[Ythan]

Considering that his reaction to a minor insult, and I maintain that eat a dick is a minor insult, is to throw a bitchfit and commit to participating in the game even less than he already is, I don't care. Act indignant. That kind of behavior earns him disdain.

[Ythan]

Self-anything?

[Ythan]

Using mindless wagon number crunching without actual analysis, without actually weighing in (or ever having weighed in) on why a wagon was not good at the time, is nigh feebleminded. Or, and this is more likely because that's a lot of work for a truly feebleminded person, it's just slouching off any responsibility for your play.

[Ythan]

That is unnecessarily defensive.

[Ythan]

ಠ_ಠ

[Ythan]

you lock your ISO is full of one liners and reaction comments nothing really of substance it made it look to me when i was reading your iso that you were trying to stay low and under the radar

This is where it really begins to break down. You are not holding to your story.

[Ythan]

Sorry, but I've decided to put my thought processes into the games. When I try to gather data, I post it for everyone to see so they can see where I'm coming from. Also, I've committed to plenty which you choose to ignore (I do have a vote out on someone right now, being the FIRST on it while you have not and are waiting for someone to get a solid case built against them so you can bandwagon them to lynch).

Bullshit. "I've committed to other things" does not excuse your IoA. Neither does having a vote out. And neither of those covers the bullshit you tacked onto the end of this.

[Ythan]

Ythan- "...going to actually commit to anything..." reads as I never commit to anything. Therefore if I actually have committed to something then this is false and I'm not using it to excuse my perceived IIoA. The first two sentences reference your IIoA claim. The third is in reference to never committing. An act of commitment is voting for someone, and calling them scummy, which is something you haven't done today. So, good day sir.

No, it does not read as that. You read it as that because, I don't know, reading is difficult for you. It remains that you're using ioA bullshit to cover your own ass from having to do anything meaningful.

[Ythan]

Ythan- "...going to actually commit to anything..." reads as I never commit to anything. Therefore if I actually have committed to something then this is false and I'm not using it to excuse my perceived IIoA. The first two sentences reference your IIoA claim. The third is in reference to never committing. An act of commitment is voting for someone, and calling them scummy, which is something you haven't done today. So, good day sir.

No, it does not read as that. You read it as that because, I don't know, reading is difficult for you. It remains that you're using ioA bullshit to cover your own ass from having to do anything meaningful.

I said good day!

Wrong 70s Show guy, please switch to Fez.

[Ythan]

Insight plz.

[Ythan]

Slow.

vote Plum x4

I like my vote here but I will continue to review my other reads from yesterday in light of the flips since.

[Ythan]

Ythan is prob-twon BUT still a good lynch.

This based on something I said in the past and have entirely moved away from. And you've yet to address this point. This is why you're a better lynch.

v/la for the next couple of days. Got a couple papers I need to finish

Come on. I have papers I need to finish too but it's Mafia.

[Ythan]

Any good reason why you think Ythan should still be lynched?

This makes at least two people who have asked now.

[Ythan]

Charlie you're so full of shit. If you can't explain yourself then saying "because his posts" is a retarded way to fake it.