/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[ooba]

As someone already mentioned 4/16 is a good ratio for town.

I disagree with both of these
- Giving scum a chance at extra NKs
- Losing flip info from a lynch

Therefore its Daycop\Roleblocker. At worst, it'll get reduced to nearly a mountainous game - which is acceptable in my book given the ratio.

Vote: Daycop
Vote: Roleblocker
Vote: Option 2

[ooba]

Vote: Daycop
Vote: Roleblocker

Still stand that this is the best option.

Troll's argument was good

- Troll: Do not choose RB & let hiders claim
-- Because if scum gave us 2 hiders, then we have two confirmed PRs which cannot be NK'd by mutual protect
-- Because if scum gave us 1 hider, we have a confirmed town person right off the bat
(Of course, this is with the added note that fakeclaiming scum will get caught by other PRs flipping\claiming later)

However, we should consider the roles we might have got. I do not think scum would have giv us two hiders. In fact chances of a single hider are low too since both Weak doc and hider have a powerful informational component to them - aka "Basically a cop who gets killed if he targets the guilty" role + chances to stop a NK. I would have personally gone with 2 Vigs, 2 JKs. The vigs reduce the informational component of the JKs since no-kill would make any JK suspect that his target was either making the kill or being targetted for one. And JK better than tracker because if there is a vig in the setup, a tracker might actually verify that X visited scummy person Y.

So therefore, Troll's benefits aren't realized except if scum went exotic. Plus if you remove RB as a choice, you are left with choosing one of Janitor\Assassin which is much worse.

I disagree with Hoopla's premise: "It is almost certain that the roleblocker must be picked as one of the two roles for scum, as any combination of Role-Cop/Janitor/Assassin is more damaging than a couple of roleblocker combinations."

Why not Janitor?
- First, it denies us the flip info
- Mith has pointed out that we cannot keep exact track of PR flips and current PR count

Why not Assassin?
- My argument is simple - would you rather the PR become powerless or get killed
- If someone claims PR and scum had assassin, not only would they be able to kill the PR, you effectively freed up their NK to kill someone else

[ooba]

Looking at Hero's massclaim idea - I am surprised he chose Rolecop\Roleblocker as the combo to go with it .. Why would we want to out the power roles and then give chance for scum to make them powerless (or) fakeclaim and block the real PRs

Massclaim + Rolecop\Janitor:
- We start the game D1 with 4 confirmed town roles.
- Rolecop role is useless. Plus Janitor role loses its disadvantage of possibly letting scum with a fakeclaim live on with town never knowing the count for sure. (One flip will still be Janitor-d so that'll have to be taken into account)
- Scum will have to waste 4 nights to kill the PRs (Maybe even waste a kill if a Hider is present)
- Plus whatever information we get from our PRs till death is 100% accurate without a roleblocker - Hence all the informational components of Hider, Weak Doctor, JK and tracker is fully reliable for three days.

Obvious the above is a no-scum fakeclaim scenario. I'll need to work out how it changes when 1\2 scum fakeclaim day zero. Obviously this is dependent on what scum gave us so I'll be working it out with whatever setup possibilities people have mentioned in the thread so far.

P.S: I PM'd the mod regarding how role allotment to scum will happen - scum will get to choose allotment during the first 24 hours of day 1. "The reason to claim on day 0 is that the scum won't know which of them is the RB, so they can't decide which of them will fakeclaim in advance." so this argument is not true.

[ooba]

That's interesting. Ooba, why didn't you check the thread first? I think I'd be more likely to PM the mod if I was mafia and expected that info to be either in my role PM or nowhere.

I did check the thread; missed it.

Either way, we need to try and count up who's in favor. Obviously a hider claim does not work if we have a lot of people resisting.

In favor of a hider claim.

Slightly busy today - still haven't got the time to analyze massclaim in full - probably tomorrow ..

[ooba]

@ooba and Zoraster, Troll thinks that the two of you explicitly support hider claims. Troll wonders if you would be willing to give your best arguments for why this be the case.

- I think two Hiders are unlikely
- If scum gave us a single Hider
-- They will not counterclaim as it is very easy to ask the two hiders to hide with each other and confirm themselves - If one hider dies (and there isn't another NK), then we know for sure that the other hider is scum
-- We might start the game out with a confirmed town role which cannot be killed easily (This is obv. assuming we dont give them RB)

On the flip side if we have no Hider claims, we start out with info that we did not get Hiders and reduce later fakeclaiming options for scum.

[ooba]

Not a Hider

[ooba]

Hmm. Surprising - I did not expect a Hider claim. Has everyone done the Hider\No-Hider claim?

Favor rolecop over assassin .. Keeps options of massclaiming open ..

[ooba]

Vote: Rolecop

[ooba]

I have classified the players based on the following:
- If you suggested something original during D0, you're in the town list
- If you kept a low profile, you're in the scum list. Basically, it narrows down to if your play appears like you were afraid to express opinions strongly and ruffle a few feathers.
- Anybody who agreed with a massclaim gets into the town list
- Other reasons have been mentioned

Scum

1). Amished
3). ekiM
5). Elmo
- For "This is looking an awful lot like scum-you, no? You're getting all this from Day 0?"
- Can you give me meta where elli has posted a list like this before?
8). Kmd4390
12). Papa Zito
13). Plumegranate
15). Rhinox
- Did not contribute anything original but spent time defending Hoopla's plan. IMO, Hoopla's plan hurt town more than scum. Rhinox fits the bill as good bet for scum who hid behind another person's plan. Even if it turned out badly, Hoopla would get all the blame.
17). SpyreX
18). VasudeVa
- He actually guessed one hider in his first post. (2 Trackers, 1 vig, 1 hider). But apparently he comes back 7 hours later to choose something different. That's odd - I can attribute old scum coaching new scum VV about how hider is a unlikely choice for scum.
19). zoraster

Neutral

4). Ellibereth
- Minus points for keeping low profile during role selection
- Plus points for actually making a scumhunting list
9). mith
14). populartajo
- "In other news, Hoopla, Rhinox, Hero, Zorblag and Spyrex are all very likely town."

Town

2). DrippingGoofball
6). Herodotus *
7). Hoopla
10). My Milked Eek
16). Slicey
20). Zorblag

Vote: Rhinox

While populartajo is in the neutral list, a scum Rhinox flip would put him as strong potential scumbuddy.

[ooba]

I'm not sure I see the connection between your criteria and where people are located, ooba. I'd love to hear how you square DGB with being town, even if you just mechanically try to apply those criteria you listed.

Forgot to add - I cannot see scum ever gambitting like that ... Puts a lot of pressure on her at the start of the game. The only probable trade-off is that Janitor was hammered. In fact if I was scum, I would have probably lurked it out until Assassin was hammered too and then declared gambit at start of D1 to increase payoffs of move.

[ooba]

Selection not perfectly matching where people went (Zoraster,SpyreX)

- I did not mechanically classify people based on those set of four points. Those points served as a general guideline and then I used my instinct.
- SpyreX, you can " - vibe" under each if it makes you feel better. Do I get the double points?

Why isn't mith in town (elli)

- Look above. While mith did a good job of analyzing the various arguments, I did not find anything that made me go "Hey, thats town"

Why are people who supported massclaiming in town list (Rhinox)

- Frankly, I tried working out the setups + optimal (scum response to claims, town counter) but it was too mindboggling. However, the idea has received very little traction which makes me think scum have discussed this and want to avoid a massclaim. Plus even otherwise, supporting massclaim was against popular opinion when most people where were going "I'll think about massclaim" or "No to massclaim".

You haven't really done anything on your town criteria\fit your own scum criteria (Rhinox, Plum, elmo)

- I did support massclaim and wanted to actually convince people on it but couldn't much headway on any convincing arguments. Even assuming I fit my own scumlist, you'll have to explain why that is vote worthy Plum ...

Your tells aren't valid (Hero)

- Hero, you should realize that I did not go for good analysis=appearing useful=pro-town. I can see scum employing two kind of reactions (a) wait and watch (b) ride the coatails on a plan favorable to them.
- Look above as to how massclaim was never pushed that vehemently. Hence I expect all scum were employing the "a" strategy to that.

elli tell isn't valid (ekim)

- Your point is valid but I still think its a town tell.

Vas, lets see if the above clarifies my reads for you ...

[ooba]

Work beckons .. Will catch up tomorrow or day after that ..

[ooba]

My meta experience with Spy (Scum:Victorian Vampire\"another", Town: LoL comes to mind) points to Spy town.

Unvote. Vote: VasudeVa.

I want to see where this goes. Also law of averages.

Im also having a bad feeling about Vasudeva, that is based on the town meta I recall from him.

Which particular game?

[ooba]

@Hero, I added that to see who would call me out on that but hadn't called PZ out on it. You did but mitigated by the fact that you think PZ was joking
- I don't like how Rhinox's wants to move away from theory discuss when questioned by Plum. Addn: Plum following up in 551 gives me town vibes.

505: If PZ flips scum, this weak post voting the alternate wagon makes Hero possible scumbuddies with PZ. But if Vas flips scum, this vote only reinforces town read on Hero.

523: Might be my confirmation bias working here, but the last part might be a mild bus. He "inconsistencies like that interest him" but he neither votes me nor Vas.

528: I think Hero brings up a good point on the slip.

Vote: Zoraster

Surprised not many people have acknowledged it .. 545 has mild spyrex-zoraster links because
- His hero-Rhinox case is actually good but
- chooses to vote Hoopla??

[ooba]

V\LA for 2 days

[ooba]

Zoraster > VasudeVa >>> Hoopla
I will not be voting Hoopla today.

[ooba]

Back .. Catching up ..

[ooba]

vote elmo

...but elmo needs to die ASAP.

Well, I can't see any in-thread reasons to lynch Elmo, so your reasons ought to be good ones.

Same with Elli's ekiM vote. Out of the clear blue sky.

In other news, I'm perplexed that Amished and tajo were NK'd, as BOTH looked rather townie to me.

Mmmmmmmmmmm

I'm reading tajo as the scum kill so why would ya be perplexed at that?

[ooba]

Kmd is claiming track on elmo to someone?

If it was tajo, elmo should shoot himself today (or) be lynched tomorrow.
If it was Amished, I see no reason why elmo should be lynched; or why kmd choose to soft claim today.

If it was someone else (and was blocked by JK\WD), we should take a call on how scummy target was.

[ooba]

- If elmo had been tracked to tajo, the correct play would have been to ask him to shoot himself as that frees up a lynch.
- As a player who re-reads the game during night and wherein my reads change - I don't think its scummy to vig someone on whom you had no suspicion the previous day.

Therefore the correct play is to let elmo live. If he is the vig, he is either going to be killed\roleblocked today. If he is not the vig, the real vig will kill him tonight.

---

Post 801 gives me the vibe of trying to appear useful ..

Unvote. Vote: VV

[ooba]

Zito's ooba vote is understandable

P.834 has a lot of text but very little on your stances as to who is scum and why. (except ekim). Why is PZ's vote understandable?

---

Greaat, now that I'm actually trying to be useful, people attack me for trying to be useful.

There's a difference between trying to appear useful and actually trying to be useful.
- In the post I mentioned, You've asked questions to Spy, PZ, me and eli
- First of all, I cannot really fathom the questions as they don't appear to have a scum hunting base behind them. This was the initial reason why I voted you.
- Second, apart from me - none of the other three have answered the question posed to them. They have posted after that. Also, you have posted after them but don't seem to care whether they reply or not. Therefore, you just asked questions to appear useful with no real aim of scumhunting.

I know your town meta from Greek mythology where you were relentless with the questions and made sure people answered them. Far too many people seem to be playing the Vas-newbie\VI card to derail this wagon; Once you flip scum, that'll be a good place to start looking for your scumbuddies.

[ooba]

I actually played a lot like I played from D1 here to my D1 in Greek Mythology. The only difference is, I did not get lynched.

Greek mythology:

Try to do something lazily

, get voted to L-1, RAGE MODE, Lynch. x.X.
Here: Try to do something lazily, get voted, RAGE MODE, not lynch, D2: proceed to trying to do something lazily.

Come on, ooba, you nominated that game for a scummy. Surely, you'd remember it better, hmm?

Please - you might have started off on a lazy foot but you were nothing like that during the later half of the day. Greek mythology - game link for those who need them. Also read your questions - thats scumhunting with a purpose (ISO 33 for example)

Jesus Christ. Terrible playing you guys.

I brought my town A-game and tried to encourage discussion

from all the lurkiness that was going on, and I get lynched. Yay.

But if you're scum, not re-reading a meta game to I'm referencing to defend yourself is ridiculously bad (or reckless) scum play. You have any completed scum games?

[ooba]

I'm sorry but there's something I have to do for this game and I didn't have the time for it .. Will finish that and post tonight ...

[ooba]

Regarding Vas:
a) oGaM has ended and I had him pegged as the same (scum\town) in both games
b) It's almost as if he does not care much this game. I reviewed his scum game in Descent into Chaos - fights any accusations against him vehemently, posts cases - generally makes up effort to be viewed as town. (He does use WIFOM arguments here)

However I "First off, I don't understand what's so different about me here and in DeathNote's game (NY111). I was so lazy over there, refusing to post for weeks." is blatantly false.
- He keeps referring to his "laziness". He never talks about late day play D1 where he really did a lot of analysis. (I used his meta of SnowBunny in oGaM since I thought it was good)
- Plus the difference in way he asks questions when scumhunting. Compare P.801 to ISO 33.
Please look up his Greek Mythology game in ISO. I'm getting conflicting signals but I'd have really expected scum to have jumped on this if he was town. It's being ignored for the most part and like I said - too many people calling him a VI and giving him a free pass.

I feel he's being coached into this playstyle by more experienced scumpartners.

---

@Rhinox
Post 801.

- Both Plum and Rhinox are very weak jumps onto my wagon

[ooba]

@ooba: Why are you still pushing for me when you've had firsthand experience of how lazy I can be as Town in a recently finished game?

Clearly you haven't read 933 yet ..

[ooba]

I think this Ooba wagon has more legs. Rhinox's 929 is a good point,

Zito's point is good

. ISOing ooba his scumhunting seems pretty lazy.

UNVOTE: DGB
VOTE: ooba

Zito never explained his point at all. Can't see how you agree its good.

Vas, given a choice between meta and a player whose blatantly sticking to his lies because the others are too lazy to click a link and see you're lying - It's quite clear which I'd go with.

Alright. I've done a meta study on SB now. If you are as interested in metas as I am, I'll provide the links. I studied two samples of each of her town and her scum games: One win and one loss each. Mostly done in ISO. By all means, feel free to check my observations. Before you accuse me of reading metas to seem town, please I challenge you to read these in ISO as well. See if my obvservations match yours. I am quite objective in my meta studies.

Umineko- SB Scumgame, Won.
Dodgeball, Scum-Lost
British Comedy Mafia, Town, Lost
Open Source Mafia. Town, Won

My observations:
General Behavior:
-> Lurks, V/LA's alot
-> Prone to plagiarizing cases, but most probably due to her lurker nature.

As Scum:
-> She is very defensive. She seems to be over-defending herself if she is scum.
-> Long posts. Also, her scumhunt posts are long and detailed.
-> Tunnel visioned as hell. I do not see her questioning people and making sure of her suspicions.
-> Fewer "I'm still here!" posts. Every post has content.
-> Not opportunistic. Makes it so that her cases against people are as strong as she can make them.

As Town:
-> Provides metas.
-> Her defense as town is are more concise. Instead of replying to every point made by the opposition, she answers to them in a shorter fashion rather than by a point by point rebuttal seen in her scum game.
-> More "I'm still here!" posts.
-> Considerably less tunnel visioned than her scum game.

Conclusions:
She is being very consistent with her townie game. The only inconsistent thing I've seen was her unwillingness to provide her meta to me. But I can see why that happened. It was rather rude of me to accuse her that she is badscum.

If she was scum, her case on me would be bulletproof and angrier. But nah, the vote post she did was not as good as her vote posts as scum. She would also rebut my points against her in a post by post manner. Not in this game. As far as I'm concerened: She is town(until she gives me reason to think otherwise)

Explain how this is laziness.

[ooba]

Catching up..

[ooba]

While PZ's analysis is interesting
- Hoopla's gambit might have neutralized the Janitor but it gave scum the most strategic options. And assassin is the worst role of the lot. My choices were based on limiting the damage a scum PR can do
- Also if I was trying to maximize the PR finding capabilities - there should have been two vigs in the setup - unless you're counting a block\protect yesterday
- There was a general lack of traction for the idea as a whole.

Also I find it intriguing that you were able to look at the kills, go back and see the D0 exchanges and come up with that theory in under 5 minutes ..
Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:49 pm
Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:55 pm

"ooba: Answer Rhinox's point in 1000: Why did you go from a stance of "zoraster>VV" yesterday to voting VV, on the basis of 801?"
The way he asked questions in 801 - looked like a random bunch of questions thrown around with no purpose - Got a very strong scum vibe.

I have no clue what 1057 means. elli is town.

Agree with 1075.

Also I need to re-read in entirety this game to get my bearings again ..

[ooba]

Sorry - other games got my attention so wasn't able to re-read ..
Thankfully have a long weekend coming up in 24 hours .. expect a catch up then ..

[ooba]

Mith+DGB are scum if zora flips town ..

[ooba]

Reading the game ..

[ooba]

I'm finding it hard to re-read everything - I'll do some voting analysis to see where it gets me ..

[ooba]

Good to see Fate in the game ..

[ooba]

From D3 onwards - Till end of page 51

- Scum chose elmo over KMD for the kill. Reposting suspicions of both:
KMD: Rhinox, Vas, mith, DGB
elmo: DGB, Vas
Thoughts: Nothing really useful from this

Also, Why wasn't KMD blocked if elmo was the scum kill?
It's suboptimal to try and block a possible role while you already have a claimed informational role. There's something wrong here.

Addn: 1264 - "Agree with Rhinox's point 3 that a second Vig remains a possibility, and that Kmd unblocked lends weight to that possibility, and that we shouldn't discuss this in detail - if we have a second Vig, we will likely know it for certain tonight."
Back to 1263 - might be a possible slip by Rhinox (and mith?) - JK blocking the Roleblocker might also explain why KMD was not blocked - the fact that this possibility was not considered might point to inside info that a JK might not have been added - Hence never considered as a scenario?

1255: @mith
- Decent point on the 1041

1256: @iam
Why did you vote elli over one of "Palumporom, Rhinox, Spyrex, DGB, mith"?

1257: @MMe mirrors my thoughts on mith

1259: @iam
- Why did you miss 1041 of DGB? (mith's case about a possible slip on tajo)
- DGB case seems stronger than the one against Rhinox but voted Rhinox in the end. Also
- "DGB/Rhinox pairing is so strong that a town flip on one would probably cause a drastic change of opinion on the other." - ??

1260: @SpyreX reactions to iam
- "I'm a little surprised to see ekiM that low, actually."
First I thought spyreX was saying "Why isn't ekim more scummy?" - Did an ISO to see that he never mentions ekim before that - Found it suspicious before I realized that "that low" means he thinks ekim is town
Reactions are fine.

Thoughts as of page 51:
- Pretty sure I was wrong about the mith-DGB pairing
- iam-DGB pairing looks very likely
-- Also 1273 looks like iam cheerleading mith-KMD town-town argument
-- Or I could be wrong and it's mith-Rhinox
- Anyway would prefer a DGB flip over mith

Vote: DGB

[ooba]

1278: @DGB
Cheerleading

@mith: Who is DGB's partner?

1286: If its mith-Rhinox, add Plumpom to that group

1326: @SpyreX, IIRC you think Rhinox is scum with VV? Who are the other possibilities ..

1328 - "Then again, Town would also attack me but I consider them collateral damage." - Lol

1331 - Call it confirmation bias but I can see this as iam bussing an eventual DGB lynch and setting up a future link on DGB-Sera .. Might have been planned in the QT too ..
- If iam actually believes DGB is scum and DGB left out Sera on purpose, the explanation is that DGB is trying to paint a townie as her scumbuddy before getting lynched

1348 - AD is scum

[ooba]

He had 36 posts to go to be fully caught up, but he just peaced out. Not to mention how lacking in freshness his catchup post was thus far.

I am caught up - I didn't see anything worth commenting on after that post ..

The thing with ooba is his LOLDGB VOTE, and then parkin it there before he finishes his read.

Wasn't sure if I could finish 51-56 yesterday .. Better to post that I've spotted iam-DGB and check for reactions rather than holding that back for a couple of days and posting again ..

---

Please explain how scum me would benefit in any way from fighting townmith's corner against a confirmed townie.

Keeps the argument going - mith remains in his defensive stance and keeps appearing more scummy - gives you townie points if townmith is lynched ..

Do you have any intention of elaborating on how you think a DGB/mith pairing is remotely plausible?

Believed that yesterday based on my end of day skim .. But do not think that is the case now .. Why mention this now?

[ooba]

K ooba I'll play ball. LAST TIME you mentioned my slot (eKim) with regards to a read was your d1: "luuuuuuuulz d0 scumhuntinnn" and calling this slot SCUM.

Those posts weren't commenting on? Besides being fresh new stuff from a player your are "GLAD TO SEE" its a slot you APPARENTLY haven't given much thought, AND one that calls you scum with the need to dangle.

None of those posts stood out for anything significant - if they did, I'd have commented on it ..

I've seen ISO 8 before in a Reck mini theme with ooba scum. It was a well done list, and I gave him a town pass D1 (then died N1). BUT HE RAN OUT OF STEAM AND HIS TOWNNESS GOES ALL DOWNHILL FROM THERE. NOT THAT IT WAS ALL THAT TOWN TO BEGIN WITH BC SCUMHUNTING OFF D0 PLAY ACTIVITY=EASY PEEZY....

Nonsense .. The only reason Ythan voted me over the other person at endgame was due to flavor based reasons ..

---

Believed that yesterday based on

my end of day skim

.. But do not think that is the case now .. Why mention this now?

OK, do you have any intention of elaborating on why you

used to

think a DGB/mith pairing was remotely plausible?

Their move to the zoras lynch ..

[ooba]

- If elmo had been tracked to tajo, the correct play would have been to ask him to shoot himself as that frees up a lynch.

Huh?

Tajo was a strong town read for me. So any claim of killing tajo is suspicious. The correct play for a claimed suspicious vig is for them to shoot themselves in the night. (mith pointed out that this might not be the best solution in an open game)

@HH: How come I made no impression on you - yet am in the scummier list?

---

I would be kicked if the scum team is ..

Votecount

mith (1) -- Seraphim
DrippingGoofball (4) --

mith, Plumegranate

, iamausername, ooba
ooba (1) -- SpyreX
Plumegranate (6) -- DrippingGoofball, Kmd4390,

Rhinox

, Ellibereth, Fate, HackerHuck

Not voting: AdumbroDeus, PokerFace
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 28th of September, 9:20 pm, GMT.

Rhinox: KMD -> PZ -> Hoopla - > ekim -> ooba -> zora -> SpyreX -> Plum
mith: Hoopla -> DGB -> zora -> DGB -> zora -> DGB
Plum: ooba -> Hoopla -> VV -> ooba -> zora -> DGB
- Town reads on Sera, MMe
- Rhinox's SpyreX vote unlikely to be a bus .. ("I am not voting anyone?")
- Plum's VV vote an unvote is suspicious esp. since the unvote paragraph is a lot of words with no real stance. I would feel vindicated if HH was the fourth but leaning on unlikely since he had a choice between DGB\Plum and chose Plum..
- iam was scummy since I saw a possible iam\DGB pairing but iam seems genuine in wanting DGB lynched
- So I'd put my money on AD for the fourth

Vote: Plum

L-1..

Preview: "Also, why are so many lynches building force so fast?" .. I feel good about my call ..

[ooba]

Fate just because I don't feel the need to explain each and every step does not make me more scum .. Anyway you have to read between the lines ..

- iam was scummy since I saw a possible iam\DGB pairing but iam seems genuine in wanting DGB lynched.

I work on connections. If I cannot see iam\DGB, I'd rather go for the stronger connection I see in mith\Rhinox\Plum. Plum wagon was looking like it would lead to a lynch so made sense to vote her ..

[ooba]

We haven't had a scum flip yet so connections are bullshit.

It's been effective for me .. Case in point - Check out my first post on D2 in oGaM

I've generally had a good track record of spotting when your town - but you've just replaced in. I can't force a read.

As far as connections go, I've noted that you have derailed the DGB wagon. If I am wrong about mith\Rhinox\Plum theory and DGB is scum, it's worth looking into but not worth pursuing right now.

Also sure ekim was in the scum bucket D0, but no posts of his ever caught my eye in my D1\D2 skim reads ..

---

@HH: For what's it worth, I would have voted zoras but lynch had already occurred when I came in D2.

[ooba]

I like my Plum vote ..

And I find it funny that people find it suspicious that I do not have a read. Faking town\scum reads is easy enough ..

[ooba]

What I'm wondering about is oobascum optimal play is to CC you and cause mayhemz4town, so Im hemmawwin on whether we should just lynch plumpom

I'm not CCing DGB.

Believe the claim .. Still think Plum is the best lynch for today .. Lets Go!

[ooba]

NO WAI

Have you guyz lost your collective minds????????????

This is unacceptable. Come on... where are the townies... Rhinox and Seraphim are scum for sure now, they are confirmed scum with Plum. Come to your senses. I may not have played a perfect game but this is an outrage.

I lol'd at this post ..

Unvote. Vote: DGB

[ooba]

Posting from mobile .. Going to be away for the next two days ..

[ooba]

/Anti-prod post

[ooba]

Analysis of Day two voting ..

Kmd: mith(1) -> Plum(2) -> DGB(2) -> Plum(7)
Sera: mith(2) -> DGB(6)
SpyreX: HH(1) -> ooba(2) -> DGB(5)
HH: SpyreX(1) -> NoVote -> Plum(6)
mith: DGB(1) ->
iam: elli(1) -> Rhinox(1) -> DGB(*) ->
PF: mith(3) -> NoVote -> Plum(5)
Plum: DGB(2) -> ooba(4) -> DGB(4)
elli: Fate(1) -> NoVote -> ooba(*) -> Plum(4) -> ooba(*)
Fate: HH(2) -> NoVote -> Sera(1) -> ooba(1) -> Plum(5) -> NoVote -> ooba(2) -> DGB(*) -> ooba(2) -> Plum(6) -> DGB(8)
ooba: DGB(4) -> Plum(7) -> DGB(7)
Rhinox: SpyreX(2) -> Plum(*) -> DGB(4)
DGB: Plum(1) -> ooba(4) -> Plum(6) -> ooba(*) -> Rhinox(1)
AD: Plum(6)

In hindsight, mme's 1257 is very opportunistic ..

Plumegranate (6) -- DrippingGoofball,

Kmd4390, Rhinox

, Ellibereth, Fate, HackerHuck

DrippingGoofball (8) --

mith

, iamausername,

Plumegranate

, SpyreX,

Rhinox

, Seraphim,

ooba

, Fate

- I expect 1-2 scum on the DGB wagon as that lynch looked inevitable towards the end of the day
- mith, Plum in town category due to DGB scum flip. The early day Plum wagon is suspect - good chance that one more scum along with DGB on it ..

In hindsight, mme early day vote on mith and PF's plum voting suspicious (same slot)
1594: SpyreX could have probably hammered Plum here with no repercussions here
1614: AD is scum

Reading this day ..

[ooba]

Mith+DGB are scum if zora flips town ..

Ooba, care to elaborate?

Based on the late vote shifting at the end of that day ..

[ooba]

On this day ..
- Responding to Fate's accusations:
-- a) I paired everyone with DGB - I saw an iam\DGB pairing early in the day but then dropped the connection. The you\DGB connection is still valid. Who else did I spot DGB connections with?
-- b) Voting plum - When I didn't see iam\DGB anymore, I moved.
- Nothing to convince me that AD is not scum.

Vote:AdumbroDeus

[ooba]

Either I am a (Vanilla) Townsperson, or I am the Vig and think there is enough of a chance that I can get two shots off to warrant my staying hidden.

My reads are screwed up this game .. Time for an epic re-read ..

[ooba]

Day doesn't end until Ooba's catch-up post is posted, I destroy it, he is lynched instead, and CTD posts.

You can try ..

Ooba for rushing yesterday, some connections he has to DGB and various instances of IIOA that Fate pointed out.

- How would you reconcile DGB avoiding the second biggest wagon other than hers to vote me (end of day play)?
- I remember one instance where Fate called me out for IIOA. "Various"?
Overall, pretty weak reasons for setting up my lynch tomorrow .. Also if HH is lynched today and flips town, will that change anything?

Preview: Spyrex, you're saying post or be replaced?

[ooba]

Also I do think PF's approach is much more sensible .. We've got to start thinking in threes i.e if you're voting HH, you got to have a possible scum team in mind ..

mith, Plumegranate -> Town
If HH is scum -> Seraphim, SpyreX are Town -> Too prolonged an attack from both for it to be a bus
Which leaves PokerFace, iamausername, Fate.

I'd put iam in as a buddy just for 1788. (Not voting)
The lynch vote and DGB-Fate banter seemed genuine but can't say for sure.

So list out your scum teams when voting ..

---

Meet you in 24 hours with re-read thoughts ..

[ooba]

- "Baselessly clearing": "Too prolonged an attack to be a bus" - They went after VV every single day for it to be a bus.
- Why I'm not voting is clear enough .. As plum puts it "Because I'm vote sure if VV scum is the case" ..
Posting in caps lock does not mean bulldozing a case ..

My intent with that post is to make people start thinking and posting about scum teams .. Fate\Plum - who are my other two scumbuddies then?

[ooba]

- That's your opinion on scum connections. Having different parameters for scum hunting does not make it "baseless" ..
- Bad grammar does not make the point wrong

It's not legit because it was baseless. At least I'm taking a stand on who I think the scum team is. (Albeit on HH being scum scenario)..

Preview: @Plum - Didn't have the time yet.

[ooba]

No, seriously, what the hell kind of business is OHH YEA WHO ARE MY SCUMBUDDIES HUH TOUGH GUY?

I advocated mentioning your choice for probable scum teams even before anybody voted me ..

If you can't actually spell out who you think my scum buddies are when voting me
- It either means you're lazy town whose not thinking it through
- Scum who doesn't want to commit since it can be used for analysis later

@Fate: "Because I'm not

vote

sure if VV scum is the case"

[ooba]

TownOoba: I haven't done my catchup post, I'm not so sure that VV is scum and I need to finish my reread.

BUT HE SAID

ScumOoba: I not sure VV is scum. BUT HERE ARE THE SCUMS IF VV IS INDEED SCUM LIKE PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

Here's what I did say:
"I'd like people to start spelling out suspicions in scum teams like PF did.
If VV is scum, here are his partners.
(I'm not sure VV is scum though.) I'll need to check with a re-read."

[ooba]

ooba: If you haven't come through on this re-read post in the next 24 hours, my vote will be moving to you. (It may move there anyway. Fate's argument is pretty persuasive.)

Just to be clear, which argument are you taking about? (Neither of the points you said had anything to do with what Fate actually said)

Fate: You're doing it wrong again. But FWIW, if your point is "ooba knows HH is going to flip scum, they're scum together", I think it's a good one. "Overall, pretty weak reasons for setting up my lynch tomorrow" doesn't look very good either (though to be fair he does make that one conditional with a "what if HH is town?" add-on).

[ooba]

I'm a vanilla townie ..

[ooba]

IF SO, OOBAS THE GOD DAMN ROLEBLOCKER AND NEEDS DEATH POST HASTE
.

Well I'm not scum if that's what you mean by death post.

Sorry I let the town down but it was more to do with lack of proper time than anything else ..

Final thoughts: Scum in HH+{PF,Iam} ..

[ooba]

Lol .. I actually thought I was hammered .. I shall also skim read D1-D2 and give you my findings (hopefully before I'm lynched) ..

[ooba]

By the by, could someone unvote ooba in the meantime please? I'd hate for HackerHuck to drop the hammer before I'm done.

Are you really worried about me doing this?

I know that Fate is really pushing for an ooba lynch, but looking back at the Plumegranate wagon, there's bound to be scum on it - especially considering so many of you consider them to be obvtown. We're now down to just PokerFace and me as the two survivors, so it makes more sense to focus our energies there and lynch one of us. I'd obviously prefer it to be pokerface.

I also wouldn't worry all too much about the scum roleblocker surviving today, because if it is ooba

then I don't see any way that the scum team would have let him skip a night of roleblocking and he only has four shots. That means the roleblocker should be out of shots for night five.

HH reinforcing the ooba-HH pairing so that I get lynched .. Also subtle reinforcement of ooba=roleblocker theory ..

Vote: HH

[ooba]

GG all ..