Super Smash Bros. Mafia! GAME OVER!!

[Furry]

Anyone not self-town voting is risking giving a smash ball to scum.

*sigh*

Vote: Pikachu

because a) Nominating yourself for an award works sometimes, and b) Because it is highly unlikely you have the role of Pikachu.

Town Vote: diddin

Oh wow it gets worse.

Kirby and diddin are both great early wagons, far better then MPR, if you are voting someone for the link thing it should be frayed. Kirby is a little more likely scum though.

Lynch Vote: Kirbyoshi
FoS diddin

Pikachu is almost for sure town, same with fate

Town Vote: Pikachu

He wins because I am a pikachu user in smash.

[Furry]

A few things more

1) Fate lynch wagon is awful. I hate to use mod error, but it is there, and Fate is more likely then not town because of it. I will explain if needed but as a critical thinking exercise, try and figure it out on your own first. Only reason I am not town-voting Fate is that I would prefer vig powers in hands of someone who will think about it and is prob town then someone who is impuslive and almost for sure town at this point in a game.

2) The Smash Ball actually has a more important use then a vig, it has NK immunity. This is the best thing about it. Not the vig part, that is just the swingy thing about it.

3) Chronopie is added to the "acceptable wagon" list.

4) MPR is getting there with that last post of his.

@kirby - Probably. I think I went through a span from november to march where I was never town, and I played a lot of games during it. Do you think there have been any legitimate tells so far? Thought of the MPR wagon and applied reasoning to it?

[Furry]

I don't think there have been any tells of consequence, if any at all. Looks like people are just feeling each other out, throwing votes around, seeing what sticks.

I would disagree. At this point I am sure quite a few people are voting on tells. Do you agree/disagree with any of them?

What reasoning on the MPR wagon? There is none, and I'd even be willing to bet there's overeager scum on it. It would take some wagon analyzing (which I'll probably end up doing) to figure out who's most likely to be scum out of the MPR wagoners, but it looks like there's one on there.

I would bet there is scum on the MPR wagon regardless of MPRs alignment. About a quarter of the game is on that wagon, chances are scum are on it. Who is it and why? Is MPR scum or town? Generalizations are bad, specifics are good.

A few things more

1) Fate lynch wagon is awful. I hate to use mod error, but it is there, and Fate is more likely then not town because of it. I will explain if needed but as a critical thinking exercise, try and figure it out on your own first. Only reason I am not town-voting Fate is that I would prefer vig powers in hands of someone who will think about it and is prob town then someone who is impuslive and almost for sure town at this point in a game.

If you're talking about the broken links, I don't think it's a good indicator of scum/town. I think everyone got a broken link. I know for a fact all the hydras did - does that mean I think every hydra is town? No.

Close but not quite.

imo, either nacho or Mongoose is the most likely to be scum based solely off of the MPR wagon, as they didn't even give RVS reasons. Mongoose even goes so far as to Town Vote someone else WITH reasoning, but not attach any reasoning to his LV on MPR.

So which one?

SSK is a decent enough policy lynch, although he looks different then I have ever seen him before, which is a pleasant change. Probably not the best lynch for today.

[Furry]

SSK is a decent enough policy lynch, although he looks different then I have ever seen him before, which is a pleasant change. Probably not the best lynch for today.

Fair enough if you want to policy lynch me. I might just go back into my old habits any moment now. Killing me could save the town the game.However, I will try my best though to do my best.

I hope you dont revert, I like this change. If you were using an alt I would never have pegged you for you.

@Fate - Not sure if you get it yet or not. Depends on how town vote wagons occur.

[Furry]

Why do people insist on self-town-voting. Mod(s) should have just disallowed that to save all of us the headache of people who do not understand stuff.

Sorry reck and someone else hydra, ball is going to either Pikachu or Fate. There may be another player in the running at a later date, but for now, it is just those two. No one else is over the comfort/reliability line.

It is like this



There are a few others in low trust/high town area, just about everyone else is around the "line of arbitrary hatered".

[Furry]

Just like scum are more likely to push a lynch wagon then town, TOWN are more likely to push a town wagon than scum. Hence we can actually scumhunt by townwagoning.

^This becoming apparent is why I've made a cut-off limit for the town reads gained by pushing my townvote wagon though.

Actually, this is incorrect by what I am thinking. Scum would prefer that they have the vig kill, but there are two auxillary goals which are either 1) putting it in the hands of someone who will not vig them, or 2) putting it in the hands of someone who they do not want to NK. I fully expect scum to be willing to town-wagon if they think it is in the hands of someone with a few more high picks then themselves.

Also I disagree with your wagon being made of town. I actually dislike most of the people on your wagon (nacho, kirby, gandalf and chrono are all more scum then town).

[Furry]

Guys, we should use the smash ball like an extra lynch- before we lynch someone, come to a consensus about who to vig. If the recipient of the smash ball doesn't vig that person, we'll lynch them the next day. So, we basically get two lynches. Does everyone agree?

Unlynch Vote
Lynch Vote MPR

I disagree.

[Furry]

Tanstalas is town.

Unless there is a mafia bus driver.

People keep missing the forest for the trees, or is it the other way around, I dont remember. My point is, him bringing up a bus driver messing things up on its own is not suspicious untill you look at it closer. He says that a driver will use it to make the SB user kill a town player over their intented target if we lay out a necessary claim, this assumes that the bus driver is scum. Not that we have a bus driver. I would fully expect either a driver or redirector to be in this game, tans is expecting one that is anti-town. Huge difference. If an anti-town driver ever shows up, tans is probably scum. If not, this is all a null to very slight town tell.

tl;dr

I have no reason to believe you [fate] are town.

TREES FOR THE FOREST (im pretty sure that is right)! THINK HARDER!

Right now good lynches are:

Kirby
MPR
diddin
maybe nacho, need to wait on him a bit more

SB wagons are still

Fate
Pikachu
and the newcomer....

Paltry!!!!

Infact I like Paltry more then pikachu right now, who is missing the trees for the forest and needs to stop being subborn.

untown vote
Town Vote Paltry

There is some complicated theory as to why I would like Fate to not get the SB until N2/N3.

[Furry]

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

Because what he is saying we do gives the scum influence over the vig kill regardless of whos hands it ends up in. People will already be held responsable enough for their kill to prevent random shootings, but what he suggests takes the power away from who the town is calling town and giving it to a group that has scum in it influencing the choice.

You guys make me laugh. You and Furry both.

Stop beating the "OMG if there is a mafia bus driver he must be scum" horse. I already said that was the one of the few roles I knew of that could interfere with the smash ball kill

Seriously, I'm glad now I don't know about other roles as if I had mentioned them and there turned out to be one of those roles that the mafia had I'd be seriously screwed

The way you talked about it, made it sound like any driver that existed would be out there to screw up the vig in the hands of town, which only scum would do. You seemed to discount the fact that a driver would be town.

[Furry]

FUCKING GODDAMMIT.
SOMEONE GIVE ME A TL;DR VERSION. I DON'T DO CATCHUP POSTS.

Fate is town
Pikachu is town
Paltry is town

MPR, kirby and diddin are all scummy.

Catchup over.

@tan - It was one of those things where you assumed what is not the normal assumption, which at times can mean you have additonal information about setup (ie scum). I also doubt most town would be enough of an idiot to drive a vig kill to their preference intentionally. It will result in quite a few problems for the town later. This is not the strongest tell, or any type of a tell at all unless there is a scum driver, just is something that if the situation ever arises to look back at and reevaluate.

[Furry]

Sorry for being dumb, Furry, but tell me something
Do you believe in the existance of a Scum Redirector or Bus Driver?
If so, why are you trying to lynch MPR?

I have no reason to believe in one. If I thought there was one people would know, im not that big of a fan of subtelty when it comes to getting things done.

Due to that im still figuring out which of the three I mentioned needs to be lynched. Currently MPR hold that esteemed honor.

[Furry]

My computer melted down so I will have somewhat limited access until it gets resolved. Should be able to check once or twice a day on weekdays, weekends may be hard though.

[Furry]

Also MPR still needs lynching.

So far he has voted two people for wagoning him for no reason (not a bad thing, kids these days think it is for some reason) and suggested possibly the worst SB strategy out there. Link this is irrelevent to this case, only important for fate being town. I am sad no one has figured it out yet as to why it makes fate town.

untown vote
townvote fate

This needs doing. Fate now appears insane, but able to kill idiot scum easily enough.

[Furry]

@Furry: Is the MPR's strategy with the smashballs the same one as tastalas's?

Basically.

Any "everyone decides how it gets used" thing is a bad idea. You just hold people responsable for their kill and we will be fine.

Also super important if this role exists, so super important that it needs saying. Not risking someone having it and missing this.

A HIDER NEEDS TO ALWAYS TARGET SB HOLDER. It makes them a weak cop varient. As long as they live, SB holder is town. If a hider dies, it confirms the SB holder as scum for an easy next day lynch, as well as confirms all previous SB holders as town.

[Furry]

How do you hold them responsible? Ask them why they killed X person? And they can make up something, or say oops.. If you don't want to go with a majority vote, can we at least have the person advise who they are targeting before lynch vote is finished? That way it might give someone a chance to bring up something to the holder that they may have overlooked/maybe get a roleclaim from the targeted person? I just feel uncomfortable, as we will only ever get it once in the game (if at all) if I am reading the rules right. OK, you trust fate, what about day 2, 3, 4, , ect?

Kills just need to make sense. There are distinct things that cross the line, like killing someone who only you think is scum, or for some other reason that makes it a bad vig kill. The problem with voting on it is twofold, first scum will be manipulating the vote the best they can, second a new problem; flips change things. If the lynch is town or scum, I am sure that you will change some opinion of a few players.

You are assuming we have one.

If we have one it is a semi-game breaking play, so I am putting it out there incase we do.

[Furry]

Also MPR still needs lynching.

So far he has voted two people for wagoning him for no reason (not a bad thing, kids these days think it is for some reason) and suggested possibly the worst SB strategy out there. Link this is irrelevent to this case, only important for fate being town. I am sad no one has figured it out yet as to why it makes fate town.

untown vote
townvote fate

This needs doing. Fate now appears insane, but able to kill idiot scum easily enough.

Its a good idea, it works as a second lynch, we'l just have to play smartly with it
I'm willing to let Fate do this one alone, but I think next day we should start using the idea

No. We do not ever use the idea. The ONLY case where it may be applicable is a very late game scenario where the ball is forceably given to someone who is not considered town. Apart from that, no you do not direct someone. Same foolish train of thought as "derp vig should kill themselves to prove not SK derp derp". Bad plans. Also what happens if you have the ball, everyone wants you to kill someone who you are convinced is town. Are you going to do it? Do not think most people would. If someone did I would be happy enough lynching them for killing someone they thought was town.

@Furry: Is the MPR's strategy with the smashballs the same one as tastalas's?

Basically.

Any "everyone decides how it gets used" thing is a bad idea. You just hold people responsable for their kill and we will be fine.

WHY?
Why do you want everyone responsible? If we use this as a second vote-lynch, we will be able to bust Mafia easily, its fair worse if they can just kill random townies and say "Oops, sorry guys, he was really acting scummy in "[Random Number]" and "[Random Number]""
If we just go with a second vote-lynch, we will be able to bust scum, not only that, but it might lead us to finding 2 scummies instead of 1 in one night, and if you add this to having lynched 1 scummy before, its a total of 3 Scummies killed because of one smash ball

You do not understand what I mean apparently. Everyone has moves that make sense for what they have been thinking and what role they are. It is descrepancies between what people would normally do and what they actually do that provide some of the greatest tells in this game. The actions that do not line up with what they had been saying, or with what they claim. If someone steps over a line to make a kill on town, they are probably scum. These types of kills are likely traceable too if you know what to look for.

Also still, stupid stupid idea. I would rather trust the person who we are saying is town to make a vig kill then trust most of this game (no offense most of this game, but over half of you are either scummy or I do not trust the decision making ability of). If we put the power in the hands of everyone, I can 100% guarentee you that scum will have a hand in manipulating who gets killed, I can 100% guarentee you that we are more likely to vig town. The other part is the flip. You can not seriously tell me that after a lynch your suspects have never changed. Which means we would need to make seperate targets for if the person was town, scum, SK, cult, survivor, Jester, etc etc etc. Distracting aint it? This would be a poor use of time, so we are not going to do it.

I can keep writing essays on why everyone controling the kill is a bad idea, but I really do not want to. This is just going to take putting trust in (very funnily) the alts that are saying this is a poor plan. We are wise beyond our join dates, and know what we are talking about. Also the few people here that I think know who I am, hush now.

[Furry]

MPR is still super scum.

Check out how he seems to put down SSK for hammering (when it was really L-1) before hammering himself. Regardless of diddin flip, which I really am not too sure on, leaning scum despite my views on VT claims, MPR still is scummy due to this.

[Furry]

/waves to Furry (I knowz ur sekrit)

Also I know who you are. This confirmed my thought. Saddened that fate was unable to guess it.

Lets not be too obvious about the govenor stuff to ok people? We dont want them getting tracked down by saying clues exist.

[Furry]

Was frayed the wrong choice for the Smash Ball? (I mean, he was town, so duh, but do you think it was scummy of Fate?

Hahahaha

No.

Lynch Vote Kirby
Town Vote Stelz

Yes I know guy is more loco then Fate, but also is town given that late D1 thing.

[Furry]

Well because kirby is being all complainy about it...

Couple questions for everyone:
Was "Traitor" part of diddin's role, or part of his alignment?
What/who killed Socio?
Was frayed the wrong choice for the Smash Ball? (I mean, he was town, so duh, but do you think it was scummy of Fate?)

I asked mod after his flip, he is a member of "Traitor Mafia" as in "Mafia group A". This is a WIFOMy question if you are going to base tells off it, so that one is out for being useful.

Given that SP looked probably town, I would guess we have a setup that I have seen before where scum A killed at the end of the day and scum B killed at night. This looks much more like a scum/vengekill then a vig kill. Still a WIFOMy question though.

This is mega WIFOMy. It was not "scummy" for fate to kill someone fate obviously (if you read the game D1) saw as scummy. This reads like you are trying to drum up suspicion for fate.

Who the hell is Stels? He's definitely not where I'd put my town vote today.

The person who seemed to be arguing that Luigi was not who diddin was, and that scum have no fakeclaims in a sense that he thought all anti-town characters were set as scum. This makes him unlikely to be scum because this is super unlikely to have occured, especially with multiple mods.

Townvote: Nacho

Still obvtown for being early on my town wagon and pushing for it with clear reasoning. Now for the lynch vote I'm thinking:

nacho probably does not have much use in this game (no offense) from what ive seen. He is not as much up on the scummy level as I had him last night, but I am not remotely comfortable giving him a vig kill today.

On the contrary Kocc. The reason I did not disclose my opinion was that I did not want anyone copycatting ME. You were very much under the radar D1. Why should we not lynch you?

Remember a long time ago when I brought up that there were a lot of people I thought were town but hard to trust? Kocc was one of them and is probably town. Your reasoning here is bad, as is your logic. As soon as one person answers the questions, everyone can "copycat" them. Plus we have the fact that a majority of your questions were WIFOM and useless past speculation. High noise, low signal. Etc.

I'm pretty sure Kirbyoshi is town because of diddin's flip.

I'm finding Zaziesurio to be quite scummy right now, actually.

I am pretty sure that there are multiple groups in this game for a few factors the flip gave us (blue flip + 'traitor' faction). Coupled with death of two townie looking people, could be a SK, but I would not be shocked by dual factions in this game, large ones tend to have them and mod-WIFOM points to it.

Agree with you on ZS though being a little scummy.

Pikachu, the case on Vez/Reck is almost identical to the one on Zaziesurio, maybe even a little stronger. Why are you LV-ing Z/E instead of V/R?

All the more reason to vote kirby.

I would be happy giving the SB to: Kocc, Stelz, Pikachu (in that order)
I would be happy lynching: Kirby, MPR and Chrono.

untown vote
Town vote Kocc

[Furry]

This was it.

Two factions, one kills in twilight, one at night.

[Furry]

What I gathered from the mod ment that we have a mafia faction called the "Traitor Mafia". I have seen games with "Alpha Mafia and Beta Mafia" "Country X Mafia and Country Y Mafia" "Red Mafia and Blue Mafia". This just follows that pattern to me after clarification that diddin was a part of a faction and not a traitor that when recriuted had GF powers.

I do not think the Pikachu kill on SP was legitimate. Just that we have a certain faction that makes a kill at twilight.

Thinking harder though, there is a (very) small chance that this is single faction, and something wierd is going on with a few roles so I will

unlynch vote

momentarily, although if a second faction ever becomes obvious, my vote is going straight back as kirby would far and away be the best bet for a member of a second group. Will probably revote MPR or vote Chrono soon.

[Furry]

untown vote
town vote nacho

Fine. I still do not totally trust nachos reads but I understand the point you are making.

[Furry]

Furry's avtar looks yummy. Can we eatses him???

No.

[Furry]

Furry(542): Wow. Just wow. I understand you thinking Kocc is town, I slightly disagree, I think he's leaning neutral, but it could go either way. But to think he's worthy to get your TV is beyond me. Explain yourself.

Kocc is probably town, he reads new town very strongly.

Nacho sent me a package last night.

Noted. We will discuss serious of this later, as depending on something this actually can mean there is a lot of information about setup and/or caught scum. If I am wrong though it will just needlessly out roles.

I will be voting either MPR or Brian. Probably MPR. Guy still is scum. Heck with it

lynch vote MPR

Please go back and read him, knowing diddin is scum. I smell partners.

untown vote

I am in spirit voting nacho, but today I do not want to rush this for a reason I will get back to later.

[Furry]

I'm tired of this "secret reason" bullshit. You didn't want to townvote me yesterday because of secrets that haven't been revealed, and now you don't want to townvote Nacho who is 100% town to me.

Big game (should) have a doctor. A doctor would have to be stupid not to be on you N1. I am fine making a calculated risk to make the strong town players immune in the late game instead of early in the game. Being able to cycle through a group of obv-town players to make immune in mid game would be a death blow for scum.

AND the fact that you're STILL parking your fuckin vote on MPR is why I had to OUT Nacho as town in order to divert the Smash ball from you. Furry.

I think I understand what you are saying, but your "he sent me something" made me uncomfortable since I know that would be impossible. You think MPR is town I take it? Him completely ignoring diddin untill diddin had been lynched, jumping in, overhammering him, and saying diddin was scummy looks like a partner to me.

[Furry]

(NERO STOP BULLSHITTIN YOU KNOW WE GOT A GUILTY ON HIM LAST NIGHT)

joke or serious?

If this is serious we should town vote gollum and lynch vote mongoose.

[Furry]

Please TELL me we haven't fucking hammered the obv--jester. THATS WHAT WE HAVE SMASH BALLS FOR.

You are right and wrong. Normally I would be OK with this plan as it is guarenteed that we have a vig who cannot be blocked/redirected etc. This is a special case though, as gandalf claimed a role that if he is not lying, we will be eating two NKs, so we lynch

unlynch vote
Lynch vote gandalf
Town vote nacho

Note that I also think that Gandalf is lying about his role as a BP (see day/night mafia arguement) but it is the best move to lynch the Jester, just incase he is not lying. This is not negotiable fate. Jesters get lynched with this type of fakeclaim. Result of him not lying is catastrophix.

Order of what he is is Jester, Mafia, BP.

[Furry]

FURRY IF YOU WERE THE OBVTOWN BEACON EVERYONE SAID YOU WERE YOU WOULDN'T JUST BE A MINDLESS DICKLESS SHEEP.

"OH WELL IF HES TELLING THE TRUTH BAD THINGS HAPPEN"

SO SCUM CAN FAKECLAIM WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT AND "UH OH IF HES TELLIN THE TRUTH TOWN WILL ALL DIE IF WE LYNCH HIM UH OHHHHHHHHH"

If he did not claim "only night activated" I would be fully willing to vig him. HOWEVER it stands that he did, if we are wrong, scum gains a free kill. If he is a jester, we lynched a jester, which is technically a good thing (although only idiot mods include jesters to start, that is a different topic of discussion though), if he is a BP, what we did was a very good thing.

Could he be jester? Yes. What do we lose? One lynch to get rid of an anti-town role.
Could he be BP? Yes (although probably not). What do we lose? Two lynches (one on town-BP one passed up).

[Furry]

Lynch vote: mongoose

Does town voting do something today? It's all a little confusing to me.

Whoever gets most town votes becomes NK immune and gets a vig kill.

town vote danakillsu

SSK was town, dana is also town with this question.

[Furry]

Lynch Vote Chronopie

Why did you vote someone that you were convinced was a regularly activated BP?

[Furry]

@Furry:

I'm sorry, it seems I was not clear. If I am lynched, it is as if I was a VT. Nothing happens. We only lose a day if I'm Nked.

That's why I would much rather I were lynched. Also, looking at my role PM, it doesn't say anything about day vigs. So........ probably not worth the risk.

Yes, it specifically states, "This does not happen if you are lynched."

Gandalf posted these Prior to my LV. So no. just no.

So why did you start today with this?

So the BP death due to lynch did nothing? That's good.

That sounds like no loss of night was a surprise to you.

[Furry]

lynch vote Chronopie
town vote danakillsu

That was inconvenient.

[Furry]

untown vote
Town vote pikachu

We should lynch Chrono still.

I hope a few (non-combo) town roles know what they need to do here.

[Furry]

I could swing a bunny lynch here. Just want to see Chrono get roasted pretty soon.

[Furry]

You're getting what you want Furry switch the fuck over.

Yay!

unlynch vote
lynch vote MPR

[Furry]

@FURRY: HEY YOU TOWNVOTED YOUR SCUMBUDDY SMART MOVE? DON"T THINK SO. THOUGHTS ASAP.

SSK was obv-town if you have ever played with him before. Dana is always lynch bait. That slot is still town, if you want I can look into it more tonight though.

MPR still needs swift death. I will put up something there soon enough, but I predict quite a bit of rehashing old points.

Also im thinking moth might be scum here.

[Furry]

unlynch vote
lynch cote chronopte

/drunken ideals

chrono needs death. seriouslyness

[Furry]

I still am not all giddy over the dana lynch here. He isnt playing good, but it has been super obvious that this reaction is not what he expected to a pit claim. That has been obvious since he reaplced in. Also a Fate target claim is wierd for scum to have done. No town roles would have targeted Fate that benifit scum from watching her. SSK would have had someone on his scumteam tell him that, so SSK is just being normal wierd SSK-town. Stupid action uses are normally from town. I would be willing to bet that dana-scum targeted non-Fate over scum-dana targeting Fate. Heck with looking into him tonight, I am going elsewhere.

I still like a combo of MPR/Chrono/moth/Shark death.

unlynch vote
lynch vote MPR

Sober me and drunk me disagree on who needs to go first. Guess who is making this post.

[Furry]

Why would the mafia target me. They think with a little pushing they can get me lynched, why would they waste a night kill? or even another role. Also, iirc, gollum was a watcher for the villain mafia, so why wouldn't there be one for the traitor mafia. And honestly, can you list 4 characters that would be traitors? hardly.

That is WIFOM, although site meta usually has different setups for groups. I would expect he is some other type of scum over villan scum watcher (traitor he would be watcher).

This does make something interesting though, since it means dana probably only works in traitor mafia, less the one group has two watchers.

Just because you watched me and no one came, that doesnt mean I am mafia. WHo would want to come. Only the cop, who is obviously NOT voting for me now, and may not may not have inspected me.

There is a good dirty joke in here, why did someone have to go kill reck?

@framm - Gut. Will look into it more tonight to see if it is justified.

[Furry]

Furry gains scumpoints for that post where he said no town would target me N1. THE HELL?

Actually I completely forgot about hiders. There still was no logical roles that it would be GOOD for scum to know about (to the extent where they use a role) that would be targeting fate. Who cares if scum knows who a hider is? The worst that could happens for scum is that they know who will be un-NKable.

Still, I doubt that scum waste a wacher to try and catch a HIDER that is probably doomed to not win either

[Furry]

Im totally calling town on this flip.

MPR/Chrono/Shark/moth... all of them need death at this point.

[Furry]

You know the funny part about "jumping off someone" is that you actually need to say that they are town before you can jump off them. That wagon though was just amazingly horrible, seriously one of the worst ones I have seen in over two years here. SSK was more town then he has been in his entire time on the site, dana hit a few town tells, the entire wagon showed up in about five pages, the SSK target N1 was one of the greatest action towntells ive seen.... just amazingly frustrated about that. I can almost guarentee you every active scum player was on that wagon.

While on lockdown these last couple nights though, I have done quite a bit of thinking and realized some things

1) manho is probably scum with gollum
2) If Fate is not the role she has heavily crumbed, she is scum.
3) mothrax is heavy gut scum, leaning to being scum with diddin
4) Shark is another gut scum read, especially since one of my early reads on what is going on with him is wrong
5) palmertrou is nearly confirmed town due to mod error thing. Yes it is WIFOM, but it is still a strong tell.
6) I am no longer too interested in a MPR lynch.

Lynch vote manho
town vote palmertrou

@tanta - While I agree with a bunny lynch, I dont think that framm had a guilty on him. That quote came about midway into the day. If he had a guilty it would have been on mongoose, but I doubt he had a guilty.

[Furry]

furry how can you have a "leaning to be scum with diddin" read on me? We never once interacted due to my V/LA

Because you dont fit with my reads of who is scum with gollum too well, but I still think you are scum, which means you are more likely scum with diddin.

Interesting response though.

[Furry]

5) palmertrou is nearly confirmed town due to mod error thing. Yes it is WIFOM, but it is still a strong tell.

Ugh - We're going to play "Outguess the mod" now? I'd call that a null tell if even a tell

Sort of a tell though if the mod wasnt super on top of thinking of all possible scenarios. Enough to make a null-town read a town read.

lulz fate forgetting everything I already said... we will try it again then.

First, only town hiders had reason to target SB holder, not "all town roles", so its not like scum was going to get a crapton of information about who had roles if they watched you. Second, they would only be able to catch a HIDER. Hider, la de frickin da.

What is the benifit for scum knowing who a hider is? Knowing one player, who will very likely self-destruct by the end of the game is essentially unkillable? Not like scum could ever counter that combo regardless of what they knew.

So this goes back to the arguement of a watcher targeting a known BP player. Scum gains absolutely nothing out of that deal. They get, at most, one role. Scum is not going to do that. If SSK was scum, his partners would have gone "lol you idiot dont target fate", that didnt happen, so SSK was either thinking wierd, or not paying attention to SB making someone NK-immune.

Also for crumbing - Yes or no, did nacho target you N1?

[Furry]

Depending on the next post from one particular player manho may just have to be SB'ed tonight due to a more obvious scum member. Now we play the waiting game.

Also I still am all twitchy from last moth post. Friends I have been hanging out with since he made it think I have a neurological disorder or something.

@kirby - Read closer, it is obvious.

[Furry]

Has some "complicated theory" why he doesn't want to townvote Fate. Never explained.

Holding off is better incase a claim happens, like what happened with pikachu yesterday.

Votes MPR for bringing up the double lynch theory; town-votes Paltry who does the exact same thing in the next post. This especially scummy because the only notable thing Paltry did was bringing up the double-lynch theory. Furry couldn't have agreed with his suspicions, because he wanted to lynch diddin (Paltry disagreed with that), and he never commented on Switz or manho at all.

Paltry brought up that double lynch was bad, not good. MPR was the lucky winner due to being scummy apart from that suggestion.

New reason for voting MPR: People wagoned him for no reson so he voted them? Since when is that scummy...? Again brings up the double lynch theory, which is the same thing that Paltry brought up. Now fully endorses the Fate wagon, so secret explanation is dropped.

Nothing is wrong with an early stage wagon, MPR reacted horribly to it. Far more interested in attacking his attackers then defending against any points.

Strongly believes there's a hider that should be targeting the SB holder.

I fail to see how this is a tell.

New reason for voting MPR: MPR put Mafia SSK down for hammering? No, he asked if SSK knew it was a hammer >.>. Misrep.

It was a slight attack, not strong but it can be interpreted as an early step to using the sudden SSK-hammer as future casefodder

Doesn't trust my reads, and that's why Furry hesitated town voting me? But Furry does trust the reads of kocc, Stelz, Paltry...?

I think you arent the most useful player in the world, and I do not trust your reads at all, but there are some small reasons to think you are town. I will never townvote you though before a massclaim given a few recent things. Also yes, I still think kocc and stelz are town. I like thier reads a whole lot more then yours.

"A doctor would've been an idiot to be on you N1."
This is coming from the same person who absolutely refused to townvote Fate until the very end...

I was not overexcited with Fate getting the smashball. Also what would you call a doctor protecting the NK-immune player?

MPR overhammered? No, MPR HAMMERED. He didn't ignore diddin the whole time, either... In fact, MPR votes him for his claim in post #19...

He voted him for the picture he put up. Shameless/stupid wagon if I ever saw one.

Furry believes gandalf is Jester. Then Mafia. Then BP. If gandalf is mafia, then why would he be trying to get lynched? Wouldn't that suggest that something nasty would happen if we lynched him, meaning we should vig him instead? I still don't understand Furry's reasoning for lynching him, whether he's telling the truth or not... >.>

Seriously? If he is Jester, the half-scum is taken out of the picture. If he is mafia, mafia dies. If he is BP, it doesnt activate. If we vigged him, he loses as jester, mafia still dies, but BP activates. I am not going to risk stopping a jester from winning against allowing scum two straight nights.

Furry interactions with diddin:

ISO 0:
Vote Kirby, FoS diddin
(Vote townie, FoS partner?)

ISO 7:
Calls diddin a good lynch.

ISO 9:
Calls diddin a good lynch.

diddin interactions with Furry:

ISO #13: Calls Furry townier than Fate.

I didnt think diddin was the best lynch. There were scummier people out there to me and I acted accordingly. I was happy enough with his lynch, but if I had kingmaker powers he wouldnt have been lynched. Also of course diddin is going to call me townier when I am showing no signs of wanting to SB him above everyone else.

[Furry]

So nacho did target you night one?

Seriously, depending on my information knowing if he did can probably clear a few people.

[Furry]

Hey Furry.

Hi. Yes or no?

Seriously this can potentially clear people.

[Furry]

Holding off is better incase a claim happens, like what happened with pikachu yesterday.

The fact that you never explained your little theory is what makes it scummy. Since you never explained your theory, it seems more likely to me that you were just reaching for reasons not the townvote fate as opposed to you even having a theory in the first place.

Ok, so then this is one of those "impossible to defend against" points? I already said my reasoning, if you are going to refuse to accept it say it instead of beating around the bush.

Paltry brought up that double lynch was bad, not good. MPR was the lucky winner due to being scummy apart from that suggestion.

No. He didn't. I'll bring up the quote if need be, but you're 100% wrong here.

Looking back you are right here, and I read his inital post wrong. My point on MPR being previously scummy still stands though, any response to that part?

Nothing is wrong with an early stage wagon, MPR reacted horribly to it. Far more interested in attacking his attackers then defending against any points.

Show me one point he could defend against when he originally attacked mongoose.

Again, nothing is wrong with early wagons. It is one of those things that most newer players have seething hate for due to some reason I cant understand. Mongoose was not the only one he did this too as well, he reacted the exact same way to bunnys vote. Also you can technically say mongoose voted for the sake of wagoning, due to his "I agree with diddin" post in which diddin says he is bandwagoning.

I think you arent the most useful player in the world, and I do not trust your reads at all, but there are some small reasons to think you are town. I will never townvote you though before a massclaim given a few recent things. Also yes, I still think kocc and stelz are town. I like thier reads a whole lot more then yours.

Odd. The only reads they've given are mongoose is scum, and you're town. And you've never said ANYTHING about mongoose being scum, so I'm assuming you didn't try to give them the smash ball because you knew they wouldn't shoot you... right?

Stelz is in no way scum with diddin (see his early speculation post regarding Luigi), and his opening post the next day. I would nearly be willing to bet the game that if Stelz is scum, it is with gollum. I do not get a scum read off him though, so that is a great reason to give him SB (Not scum A, townish read).

Kocc again is not scum with diddin, and also more likely then not, not scum with Gollum. The town read there is not as strong as the read of Stelz, but he is low chance of being scum due to interactions.

He voted him for the picture he put up. Shameless/stupid wagon if I ever saw one.

MPR explained himself in ISO #30, which I find to be good enough reasoning. He thought diddin was fakeclaiming because he got a picture of a photobucket that wasn't Ani's...

Yeah this was the dumbest reason ever to vote him. That wasnt even a picture of Luigi (its an internet meme). That was more of finding an excuse to vote him.

Now...

Mind responding to the question of if you targeted Fate N1? Seriously, I have information that can clear people depending on the answer.

[Furry]

There are possibly shennanigans going on, or nacho and fate are massively gambling scum. I tracked nacho nowhere N1. If whoever has been roleblocking me since N2 could stop it please if you are town tonight.

unlynch vote
lynch vote mongoose

[Furry]

Oh yeah, that too

untown vote
town vote SharkFinn

[Furry]

Wait. since im getting townvotes, any suggestions for smash kill? I have an idea or two, but wanting other opinions

Use scumhunting/role information. Remember about the double lynch being a bad idea?

Reitterating that a pro-town roleblocker should stop targeting me at this point. Fun fact about a possible driver gets revealed tomorrow if I am alive. If I am not, someone should be able to figure some/most of it out, its not complicated but a scum driver could easily overlook it.

@mod

- Could you not use "not voting - Everyone else". I want to know who everyone else is without having to compare to the playerlist.

[Furry]

Told you manho was obv-scum.

I have two tracked targets alive, not including nacho(??). If Shark has any useful results, we may want to massclaim.

Town Vote Furry

[Furry]

That flip really surprises me, thought that the slot there had to be town due to "mod error". I will ask the mod about if I could go into the why if people really want me to.

For massclaim - If shark has useable information, we should massclaim. My results can catch two people in fakeclaims if they try and make them, but I do not have a track to a dead player.

[Furry]

Grrrrrrr....

We should have massclaimed before Shark roleclaimed.

I think we still should massclaim though.

[Furry]

Lets massclaim!

CSL starts. Popcorn from there. Last four to claim are me, nacho, pikachu and shark.

You all have 24 hours to object before this starts. Not just "I dont think we shoud" either, im talking about "I have a good reason, like my role says X is scum".

[Furry]

Furry no you.
You have to claim, the only people who should be last are those who have already gotten the smashball, so pretty much everyone you already name excluding you lol.
But to be truthful it doesn't matter to me.
I've already stated who I was, but I'll restate who I am.
I am Ice Climbers

Massclaim =/= nameclaim.

I already claimed tracker, I am claiming last because I have results that can catch two people fakeclaiming. Not that name matters (information > flavor, not that my role had any flavor behind it), but my role is Sonic. Who by a side point I absolutely hate using in SSBB (pikachu, olimar and trainer are my three).

[Furry]

Sharkkkkkkk stop giving away your info!

You dont tell someone that the name cop investigated them before they claim.

[Furry]

Name: Zelda/Sheik
Role: Not sure what it would be called

I can transform into Sheik and disappear at night. Can't do it on consecutive nights. I had another night action - it involved me finding link and if I had I would have taught him something

Commuter.

What happens if someone targets you with a non-kill when you are Shiek?
Have you used your ability yet?

[Furry]

Ok no more claiming out of order.

CSL - Claim

Popcorn to moth, Chrono, MPR, Stelz or kirby.

[Furry]

Commuter usually has any role targeting them, depsite its intent, fail.

Link thing is more or less a whatever thing at this point. Tanstalas is town though. I would say he is more likely town then anyone but Shark. Especially if quadz was red scum, which I would venture a guess of him being if he is Wario (for those who dont know SSBB the 'villans' are Bowser, Wolf, Dedede, Gannondorf and Wario, may be missing one but am not sure).

[Furry]

Meh, pikachu is below the town level of Shark, tan and obvious mason. Maybe even +1 more depending on how things play out.

SB should be going to me or tan today, other one gets it tomorrow.

[Furry]

Should I claim?

Yes. Same applies for chrono and kirby. Nachos role is obvious.

Also shark - Stels is confirmed neighborizer, not necessarily a town role.

We have an interesting thing though that I have figured out. If we assume four in a team, I may have a few people cleared as town, or at very least not blue mafia.

[Furry]

Just saying.

Right now town (in order of strength)

Nacho
tanst
player X (if quadz was red scum)
shark
stels
pikachu
player Y (if quadz was red scum)

I can see pikachu scum, but I doubt it. Stels again is a maybe, but probably not. Others are basically confirmed town. Player Y depends heavily on what quadz was. If I knew quadz alignment and role I may be able to clear them of being red.

[Furry]

Lynch Vote CSL

moth stop voting lyncher out of self-preservation, we can win this tonight. If he is lying SK he gets proven liar D7

CSL is going to be last blue scum. Red scum is more of a mystery (not really, its bunny, MPR or kirby)

[Furry]

unlynch vote

Not risking a lynch until we have a kirby claim

[Furry]

Once kirby claims we can continue here. Right now I am thinking lynch CSL (blue scum) smash bunny (red scum). However there is the point that bunny cant be blue at this point. The player I tracked last night N4 is not blue scum, and not red if quadz is red.

Will still not vote CSL until a kirby claim happens, as if CSL is non-blue, I am killing him and want to be sure.

[Furry]

Assume you are all confirmed alignment?

Lynch Vote CSL

I am smashing bunny tonight. I will track who I deem fit to track.

Also I find it ultra-hillarious that my three best characters in this game are masons

[Furry]

Also my targets

N1 - Nacho went nowhere
N2 - Got roleblocked tracking zaizesuro
N3 - Moth when nowhere
N4 - Tanst went nowhere

[Furry]

Lynch Vote CSL

Only doing this because you're smashing bunny.

Well bunny is only a shot at red scum. No way bunny is blue unless he got hardcore bussed at multiple points.

Also yes and no to chrono

Tans is not red scum (assuming quadz is) because he did nothing. Tans IS not blue scum, as he did nothing while another blue RB existed (goon kills RB blocks).

[Furry]

Who is scum then? You have about 18 hours to convince me to smash someone else.

@Shark - If I am going to smash someone else, I will say so in thread so you can adjust accordingly.
@Pikachuhydra - Protect Shark. Red scum will still be alive and lying about their role, he needs to stay alive.

[Furry]

You are probably right. I should stop second guessing my inital reads.

@Shark - I am now smashing MPR.

[Furry]

IF CSL IS BLUE SCUM SHARK GETS PROTECTED. IF CSL IS RED PROTECT A MASON.

Also CSL got lynched because just about everyone else was obviously town. Scum are (in order of likelyhood)

CSL

MPR
Bunny
moth
pikachu

I honestly dont think it can be anyone else. Moth and pikachu are improbable as it is.

Apologies to Chrono for making him lose the game I guess, although I doubt you are town aligned and are just a normal lyncher.

[Furry]

Bunny is town or a mafia ninja (which I doubt) since he targeted no one last night. If he is scum that is just horrible luck.

Quadz was obviously town at this point unless this is 5 scum per team (doubt it again). Or other bastard modding (again, doubt it).

town vote bunnylover

He is most confirmed town we got. Remaining scum are 1 mafia janitor and 1 mafia ???

[Furry]

By my calculations, the first scum is Shark (red scum).

This is just a deductive reasoning since there is a role missing from the game. Think of it this way, he is a red mafia cop essentially (villan cop). There is really no pattern to traitor mafia as we have luigi (mario understudy), jiggly (???) and ROB (left out of two games???). So any role can be a traitor.

For some reason though, red scum are more predictable, and they have safeclaims (we saw CSL try his yesterday). So a rolecop can only bust one faction it seems. Shark not dying is also amazingly wierd. Living red scum is most threatened by him, and doctor was probably on nacho last night (should have been on kirby but thats a post game discussion).

This is cut down though by the mongoose slip though that traitor scum have fakeclaims.

Either way, here is what we know as facts

1) nachomamma8 is confirmed town (mason)
2) bunnylover is confirmed town/mafia ninja (my N5 result)
3) tanstalas is unlikely blue scum (last blue likely is roled + N4 result)
4) Shark is not blue scum (N4 smash)
5) moth is unlikely blue scum (see tanst reasoning)

So oddly enough, this means that blue has to be..... Stelz!

lynch vote stelz

Yes I know this ended different then it started. It surprised me as well.

[Furry]

Also why doesnt bunny have the SB yet?

Hop to it.

[Furry]

@Furry - if he flipped town would you agree with Stels reasoning and have a directed smash on Shark?

Sharks claim makes him fishy. Everything else makes him town.

Stels has to be scum unless

1) bunny is blue ninja
2) blue non-killing scum missed a night action
3) blue is made up of goon-goon-GF-RB

[Furry]

unlynch vote

Too fast, want input from all and want to here what stelz has to say about who is blue scum (note he is concentrating on who is red, another scumtell)

[Furry]

Also no one put him at L-1 with chrono around please.

Note my results clear no one from being red scum except bunny. Tonight I will (probably dying) and tracking someone else.

[Furry]

Hey chrono, will you just admit to being third party neutral lyncher already? This cherade is annoying. I seriously doubt you are really town, since your win-con isnt quite that of town.

Bunny, remember to call out who you are smashing before the game goes to night.

[Furry]

Shhhhhhhh, don't spoil his little game, Furry.

Not happy with being blatantly lied to. Would be funny if moth is scum though, just doubt it.

[Furry]

@tans - You are *probably* not scum. I would not be shocked if you were, but the chance of that happening is low given my track results. You being blue scum as I said is nearly out of the question, red scum not even close. CSL/kocc I had as town for a long time, and would more likely make the kill then you-goon given that I would not track him over others.

Long shot? Yes.
Impossible? No.

[Furry]

Stels is town. Why are we lynching him???

He is scum. Specifically blue.

You are not blue scum due to killing manho (doubt that was a bus)
Bunny is not blue scum because he went nowhere last night (im guessing he isnt ninja)
Nacho is not blue scum because he is mod confimed town (duh)
Chrono is not blue scum because he is day killing (and neutral lyncher)
Tans is not blue scum due to being tracked nowhere N4 (last blue scum is rolled)
Moth is not blue scum due to being tracked nowhere N3 (last blue scum is rolled)

Who is left? Stels.

What is the arguement for him being town? That he looked town in a quicktopic? Want me to link you to a game with a SK-nieghborizer?

[Furry]

Want more proof? Look at interactions

diddin never mentions him
mongoose votes (seth) right after MPR makes a statement that sounds like a possible cop guilty

Anyone who doesn't vote Seth in their next post or two or explain why they aren't are scum.

Apart from that, no mention of stels.
manho, like diddin, completely ignores stels.

Stels played a good game. The fact that everyone else is NOT scum, and that his partners point right at him make him scum though

lynch vote stels

@Shark - Who else can be blue scum? Where do I make an elimination of a player that I shouldnt be making one?

[Furry]

So pretty much I'm asking you, do you believe that both mafia group have the same role because from the Villian mafia we are missing a goon, and from the traitor mafia we are missing a watcher if both groups had the same roles given to them.

Wasnt the "roles must be even" a big part of that horri-bad dana lynch? Roles do not really need to be mirror images of eachother, but there are probably an equal ammount of roles that take actions on each team.

My only hangup right now if the "janitoring" of quadz which I am starting to wonder if was really a janitoring or not. Odd part is if it IS a janitor, I doubt that Stels is scum. If it is something else causing it (like some bastard thing), stels has to be scum.

I just like a stels lynch here. It makes sense.

[Furry]

With a Mothrax lynch if he is town then Chronopie makes a no-brainer lynch the next day.

Chrono is third party lyncher. We are just keeping him around to vig moth tomorrow.

[Furry]

I know what we've been overlooking.

We were too tunneled on GF/RB/Watcher/Goon, thus we lynched dana.

Think GF/RB/INFO ROLE/Goon. Therefore Stels-neighbouriser is town, and one of Furry/Shark is not. The other will be mothrax, the last "VT." Thus we can all win together, when I shoot him tomorrow.

Well, there is another problem there.

First, Sharks role is useless from a scum perspective. Second, any mod worth thier salt knows that as the ammount of non-VT roles increases the strength of a watcher gets stronger then strength of a tracker very quickly. I think the point of inflection (for scum aligned) changes after about 25% non-VT.

No matter what the last blue role is, unless it is another watcher, or argueably (but I disagree) janitor, red was stronger, which is probably compensated by their roles being more incriminating.

Also neighborizer can be a strong role if the person using it knows what they are doing.

[Furry]

Hey! I was supposed to say that!

No you werent.

Yes I was!

Ok fine.

Thats more like it. Well this account was leaving after this game either way so hah.

unlynch vote

[Furry]

....

....

....

indentity crisis averted

Furry bot resetting

...
...
...

hello user

you are currently running Furry bot V2.1

please enter alignment

....

....

alignment town confirmed

please enter role

...
...
...

role sonic aka tracker confirmed

gameplay continuing

Yeesh. Sorry about that.

I need to rethink a little over the whole janitor thing. Every single thing point to stels except that as last red is likely goon, and last blue is likely janitor.

If thats true stels is town, although it forces scum to be bunny, tans and moth. Which makes even less sure. This week is going to be horrible for me. I have midterms thursday and friday, I am out of the apartment from 9 to 7 daily doing school stuff and prepping for liscensing exam. I just am confused.

If quadz was a bastard role that didnt flip (why would wario do that?) stels is amazingly obvious blue scum. Actions point to it, interactions point to it, everything but that one death points to it. But that one death, ugh.

[Furry]

I think I just got mindfucked lol :<

Stels scum knows he is dead so is pulling a "if I cant win no one can" at shark. Guess I did not have to bring up the fact that the only completely confirmable without track role used a non-confirmable action (I think town neighborizer targets SB holder).

Who are you smashing?

Hai.

[Furry]

lynch vote stels

[Furry]

Things that dont make sense about your claim

1) Unable to target masons
2) Mods allowing you to retarget N1
3) Mods not allowing you to retarget N2
4) Targeting of players that are likely NK targets
5) Not targeting SB holder after N1

Sure points 2/3 kind of overlap, but really a lot of this makes no sense. Masons should be fine for nieghborizer to target, nothing is wrong with that, if masons claim to him they trust him, scum or town. Mod should never let you retarget someone if there is something in place preventing a target, your action simply "failed". If they are preventing it, they should say why, or say "retarget again" during the second night. Oh that brings up #6 - Confirming no driver/redirector. Anyways, you should be getting semi-trusted people together that you think are not going to die. #5 is the biggest though. You had the MOST confirmable role out of everyone in the game, and you essentially wasted it by targeting someone that was probably going to die (me and bunny were most likely to live). Instead with one from each faction remaining, you throw away a confirm ability (note as scum you should have done this too, neighborize over killing. Ultra true if you are red scum.)

So yeah, your actions do not line up with town motivations.

@Bunny - If stels flips red, do not smash shark.

[Furry]

Well its WIFOM, but there is no way as blue scum I would be trying to get Stels lynched on that logic before I could get a forced win out of the game. A stels-town/red flip would have forced me to be scum by my own logic. Getting who I thought was red scum lynched and then trying to win the game with a stels lynch tomorrow would have been the right move. I have played enough games to know not to trap myself in my own logic like that if its not a forced win.

I would assume blue scum is trying to get red lynched today (stels against shark) and vice versa.

Bunny needs to say who they are smashing because that way I dont track them, and Shark doesnt cop them. Although if Stels is town I am dead tonight by hands of red obv (another reason for not getting him lynched as blue), fortunately I still think stels is scum.

[Furry]

If Furry's scum, and wins due to (almost) everyone thinking he's town, I sooo called it.

Too bad im not. Also you should have claimed odd day vig, your kills (except SP) made perfect since as town vig. You would have gotten SB and won already.

[Furry]

Noted for future reference.

If I ever have another Lyncher-Vig role, claim purely vig.

As simple as possible if not simpler.

[Furry]

That will be the last time I use Furry account for the forseeable future.

Furry = LlamaFluff?

Mind is blown.

Aye.

I/we was basically a more self confident version of me/us. Quite a few people who had played with me enough figured me out though. Which is why I knew who frayed and fate are.