Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Xite91]

Touchy. Is there something wrong with asking a simple question without the strong language?

Not touchy, that's just how I said it because all I could think when I read that was "?????"
What did it mean?

I need to reread Nacho (after the read I just gave him), either when I come back after getting some sleep or after I read everyone else once. Because he looks pretty bad (but not necessarily scummy) and that hopefully is not right.

Nach is probtown.

[Xite91]

Plum, Fan, Xite.

Ythan what's this mean?

[Xite91]

Plum, Fan, Xite.

Ythan what's this mean?

Likelyscum. Add Charlie to that list now.

And why are we likely scum? (took me a bit to figure out fan was smash bros fan)

[Xite91]

Bat and ani are possiblescum but nowhere near as good as Fan and Xite. Plum (raider actually) requires a bit more reading.

And why are we likely scum?

[Xite91]

It's a forum. I can read your post without you repeating yourself over and over. Unless you think I am a dayvig now is the time to chill the fuck out and wait your turn.

Touchy. All you had to do is answer the question. I was just curious why us?

[Xite91]

Vote Count

Super Smash Bros. Fan (6) - Xite91, Amished, Ythan
animorpherv1 (6) - Jahudo, Rhinox, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Ythan (4) - kmd4390, Battosuai, Charlie
Charlie (2) - Plum, Locke Lamora
Plum (1) - esuriospiritus
Battosuai (1) - animorpherv1
Xite91 (1) - nachomamma8

Not Voting (2) - Chronopie, holycon

Chronopie, animorpherv1, Amished prodded.

Plum is V/LA untill tomorrow
nachomamma8 is V/LA until tomorrow
holycon is V/LA until wednesday

Deadline is Friday the 17th

@Mod - I'm voting plum at the moment

[Xite91]

Took you a while to notice. Trying to make a point?

no, just went back to see how the votes were doing and saw that I was listed as voting SSBF.

[Xite91]

Maybe the mod was trying to tell you something. Vote for him.

You're right actually

Unvote, Vote:SSBF

I can always get plum tomorrow.

[Xite91]

I gave my reasons why VERY recently. Like I said, I really doubted raider was scum, but I got a bad vibe from plum, and then she spoke as there were already town flips that there weren't. I'm positive it was a confused scumslip

[Xite91]

I gave my reasons why VERY recently. Like I said, I really doubted raider was scum, but I got a bad vibe from plum, and then she spoke as there were already town flips that there weren't. I'm positive it was a confused scumslip

If that's it then yes it is probably best for you to come around to a better fleshed out wagon for today.

Yeah, I decided that, though plum is now definitely on my suspect list, I'd rather get my suspect that's more likely to be lynched to that point.

[Xite91]

Do you suspect Fan more or do you think he's just a more likely lynch?

I suspect them the same (Meaning, they're both scum) and therefore, since SSBF is the more likely lynch, I will vote him

[Xite91]

Quick list:

The obvtown

Plum - Raider's wagon earlier made him town or something. Can't remember specifics but I remember deciding that him and CSL were town.
holycon - Pinged a town tell early. I don't remember what, but I remember it was strong.

The ones who I don't feel comfortable calling town

Xite91 - The second most frustrating living player in this game.

Plum - I had the same feeling that Raider was town, but it was more that VI feeling. Plum, however, is a different character. Read her based on her play.
holy - Town commit scumtells, scum commit towntells, one is never enough to determine alignment
me - so I'm frustrating? How? And how does that make me scummy? Ythan's frustrating too... oh wait, are you just trying to push policy votes or something?

On the Richard mini-wagon: Xite, Plum, Chro
ScumSet TM - {Smash Bras, Amished, Animorph, Batt} , {Xite,

Chro

}, {Rhinox, Locke}
---In theory, each ScumSet TM should include at least one scum.

So.... you THINK plum might be town based on her replacee's play, so you leave her out of this, and so chrono is consistent, he could be consistently scum. That is a terrible analysis, just gonna say. It's too biased. You're supposed to go with all the information, not just the info that suits you

Battousai - Replaced Pittbunny who I was sure was scum. Started out scummy. Then went and pinged one of my solid town tells. WTF BATT.

I'm good at pinging town tells. I can ping yours allllll night long.

I lol'd

[Xite91]

1) Xite, nah. Plum is town. Trust me on this one.

2) I'll say it again. You have a lot to learn. Sometimes, one tell is all it takes.

3) No, I don't push policy when I have scum. You are frustrating because your logic makes no sense and I can't tell if its because you're you or because you are pushing something you don't believe.

4) Chro was consistent in his opinion of richard, so hopping richard's lynching wagon isn't scummy. I didn't leave him out of other sets he belonged in.

5) Lol!!! Of course my reads are biased otherwise they wouldn't be "my reads". Just like you not likning it is biased because it points to you and probably your scumbuddies as scum. You should bus batt now. It'll give you town points.

1) and how do you know this?
2) No, one tell is not always all it takes, especially when person A is saying person B is town based on a towntell person A won't share because others won't bite at said tell.
3) Funny thing is, I know at least one of your "reads" are wrong. Here's and idea, read me based on my play, not me as a person. People do become different over the internet, that's a proven fact. Also, point out where my logic makes no sense. And then, tell me why. I completely believe in what I'm saying, and to me, it makes perfect sense.
4) Fair enough, but again, that's really rather null than scummy or townie if you think about it.
5) Yes, your READS are allowed to be biased, but when you're giving us INFORMATION, it should not be biased. You should include EVERYONE in those brackets that "belong" there, including your town reads, because, hey, your town reads can be wrong. You are not the mod, and therefore you do not know everyone's roles. Also, I don't need town points. I do what I do based off of my reads, I don't give a shit what others think is townie or not, if you think I'm scum, tell everyone WHY without biased INFORMATION and then, if it's convincing, people might even follow you, then get me lynched based on how I've played and not based on who I am. kthnxbai

[Xite91]

@Xite: Have you read Raider/Plum and SSBF in back-to-back iso together? You said you were suspicious of both of them. Do you think they make more sense as part of a scumteam together, or do you think one is probably town if the other is scum?

Haven't yet (didn't even think of it) but that's a good idea, I'll get on that in a bit.

Xite, plum is town because of the wagon on raider.

I "won't share" the tell on holy because I don't remember it.

I'm not suspecting you based on personality. Its more based on your voting record. The "frustrating" thing is more how I was going back and forth in my head before the VCA TM.

Meh, difference of opinion. I see chro's consistency as a town tell.

Lol. Not responding to 5 because its the worst strawman I have seen in my entire mafia career.

1) Since when does a wagon on someone make them town? Especially when we've had no scum flips?
2) Well then go back and find it, because otherwise it's not valid and probably wasn't in the first place.
3)

I don't like your inability to take a solid stance. Its just not you. We even talked about this after firefly mafia. You decide what your opinion is, latch on, and refuse to believe anything else is right.

I don't like your inability to take a solid stance. Its just not you. We even talked about this after firefly mafia. You decide what your opinion is, latch on, and refuse to believe anything else is right.

First, I have changed a lot about my playstyle since I started playing IRL, so you really can't meta me for what happened about a year ago.
Second, if you

really

are hellbent on using that as my meta, I'm pretty sure I have taken a stance. I have been pushing for SSBF for at least two days (have to go back and check exactly how long). Also, I have my other opinions on who's scum, and have pointed them out, I'm just too goddamn lazy to make cases on each one. And I refuse to believe he's town, so uh... yeah, it's still me, just a much more toned down version of me

Xite, its more a personality thing than specifically a mafia playstyle.

And its not your opinion of smash bras that I'm concerned with. Its richard and now ythan.

What was that?
4) Eh, it can also be a cautious scum-tell which is why it's null to me.
5) This was my 5

5) Yes, your READS are allowed to be biased, but when you're giving us INFORMATION, it should not be biased. You should include EVERYONE in those brackets that "belong" there, including your town reads, because, hey, your town reads can be wrong. You are not the mod, and therefore you do not know everyone's roles. Also, I don't need town points. I do what I do based off of my reads, I don't give a shit what others think is townie or not, if you think I'm scum, tell everyone WHY without biased INFORMATION and then, if it's convincing, people might even follow you, then get me lynched based on how I've played and not based on who I am. kthnxbai

Point out the strawman. I don't see it AT ALL.
Also, read below

@KMD: Rhinox and Pitt both gave me strong gut town vibes in the early game. I'm slightly more ambivalent about Battousai but until he does something obv scummy I am sticking with my early gut read. Interestingly this gives me much more reason to be suspicious of Locke if otherwise your scumset brackets are correct, since he's in one with Rhinox and another with both myself and Rhinox. That is a really big 'if' though, because you took people out of the brackets you felt were obvtown

before

doing the final analysis. I'm sure you're not right about people 100% of the time, even when you think someone dropped a really good tell, so removing those people beforehand kind of damages the integrity of the analysis imo. :/ I mean, if someone just happens to be awesome at fooling you, you're ignoring the kind of empirical evidence that would cause you to open your eyes.

Sound familiar?

Batt, nope. Doesn't work once you are aware.

Also, sarcasm when being attacked often comes from scum.

Just sayin'.

You've got a lot to learn too.

Ythan, wanna put those votes to use and help me lynch batt?

Smash bras, what is your opinion of batt?

why tybalt and SSBF? Kind of an odd choice if you look at suspicion levels...

[Xite91]

@Kmd
1) No, the first time I agreed with your conclusion on Raider, but not the way you got to it. I thought he was more town because of his VI-type play, not because of the wagon at all.
2) Then it obviously wasn't that strong of a tell.
3) Yeah, but that was the original reason you voted me. Of course I would figure that you'd have some semblance of the same reason for voting for me, but why would you?
4) It's very WIFOMy and I don't want to get into it. Lets drop this point
5) a) You gave (biased) information based off of your reads, and then your reads based off of it
b) Again, see a
c) Definitely true, it was biased info based on your reads
d) It is, but I'm not sure when I said that... If I did though, show me
e) But you took out the players you were positive (and probably wrong about) were town
f) Then use the WHOLE tm and not just those you think are scummy in the first place. Why was it scummy to try to get a different lynch going in the first place if you didn't agree with the first one?

1) Um, Kmd4390 is right about Xite91 behaving suspiciously. Her posting of late is way to defensive for my liking. Sounds like she has got something to hide. Quite a good lynch actually.

2) Xite91's voting style is anomalous. Problem is, she's not the only one...

1) Because now I'm being attacked? Based on 1) Me as a person (since kmd knows me IRL) and 2) A votecount analysis that is ridiculously biased.
2) So why bring only me up about it?

[Xite91]

1) Because now I'm being attacked? Based on 1) Me as a person (since kmd knows me IRL) and 2) A votecount analysis that is ridiculously biased.
2) So why bring only me up about it?

1) I'm sorry, but the way you're defending yourself looks like you've got something to hide. And I think that's the fact that you're mafia.
2) Point taken.

1) I was frustrated because... well lets look at it this way.
I've seen some damn good women baseball players
But they don't get put into the major leagues
Why?
Because they're girls.

In that same aspect

I play mafia a certain way
But he thinks it should be a different way
Why?
Because it's me.

Just like the woman baseball player, it's annoying to have to fight that stipulation.

And the second reasoning is because he is using biased information to show his reads. And then saying, no that whole part is reads, not information, but he's adding votecounts and such, so really it IS information, though he doesn't want to admit it.

1) Xite, I didn't know being a VI was a towntell, but ok.

2) Nah. The original vote was out of frustration just like the ythan vote. I do suspect both of you, but there are better lynches like batt/smash bras/amished.

3) Wait, how is my read on chro vs yours WIFOM? And even if it is, so what? Scared of a little WIFOM?

4) I didn't give info based on reads. I gave reads based on info. The only info I posted was the vote counts and green coloring for dead townies. Everything else is my reads.

1) It isn't always, but I went through his ISO and even said why
2) So... it was because of how I play?
3) No, the whole argument was WIFOMy and I didn't want to keep going with it.
4) You gave info, then used those TM's (more info) but left out your towntells, hence info based on reads.
then reads based on biased info.

[Xite91]

And your point? The only reason I suspected that you were just a VI there instead of

my opposing scum faction

was because I thought I had the other ones pegged. One game does not a meta make and content is how I get reads on people. If you'd pay attention you'd know I could probably rattle off 5-6 people that would not mind lynching you for your *non* participation. "I don't want to get lynched" definitely does not help your case and I'm considering switching over to you even with obv-scum SSBF over here.

Damnitdamnitdamnit!!!

The only reason I suspected that you were just a VI there instead of

my opposing scum faction

was because I thought I had the other ones pegged.

Do I see a scumslip? I think I do.

unvote; vote: Amished

What say ye?

I was gonna point that out...
Anyways, glad someone else caught it.
But I'm not ready to lynch Amished, because he's not the first.

There's another scum faction in this game? Doesn't look too much like it, all things considered. I've learned to heavily distrust slips of even the most damning nature and can easily think of ways the phrasing could have happened by accident. Again, it really doesn't indicate anything unless there are two scum factions, and that is extremely unlikely, so.

We have not seen any scumflips yet, so we can't make that assumption right away, I mean what if they get alternate NK's?
Also, of course you distrust them, because I caught yours earlier.
How is it so unlikely?

However you don't really have to worry about getting any flak from me because you're a semi-sheeped suspect and I know that sheeping all the time isn't a good thing.

This sentence rubs me the wrong way. I can't really put my finger on why, exactly, other than it seems like he's too preoccupied with what other people think of him. I may be reading a Charlie iso soon.

Probably because he admits to sheeping me AND suspecting me. He also admits that sheeping is bad.

[Xite91]

Again, it really doesn't indicate anything unless there are two scum factions

my

opposing scum faction

?

esurio, it really would only make sense if there were 2 scum factions, because why would he say opposing?

[Xite91]

Just because he is on one scum team doesn't necessarily mean he would know about another one existing or not existing for certain. He could be scum not

knowing

whether or not there's another scumteam, but searching for scummy people, anyway. That's how I read it, anyway.

but mostly i just don't want to admit plum is probably right, because I want to think I've got caught scum, here.

And there are certainly enough not-particularly-protown people in this game. e_e

PEDIT: What ythan said.

Just sayin it's more likely for him to be scum if there's more than one scumteams, and considering the context of his message, I feel that could be the case, but I feel that we should leave him until tomorrow, because we've got a good wagon on SSBF and he is probscum as well. But Eh, choice is up to you

[Xite91]

why would he word what he wanted to say that way as scum that would be a stupid scum move to do so

Why would he word it that way as town? Can you think of a good reason?

[Xite91]

But Eh, choice is up to you

Why me? (You...

were

talking to me, right?)

I meant the choice for your vote is up to you, which kind of goes without saying

Get a flip of one of us and then you can talk.

Scummy. As. Fuck. When people say that it doesn't matter without absolute evidence of their alignment then they are SUPER flailing.

Not true, some of those kinds of things do need a flip to see, but that would mean trying to go for said flip.

By the way, I might be drowning in this game, but even I can see that Ythan is obvtown. There are FAR better things that scum could do with the one-shot than using it in a protown manner...

Which is EXACTLY why scum would want to do it.

[Xite91]

I think we've actually caught one this time.

So what did you think of SSBF then?
Why the hell do bandwagons always pick up AFTER I take my vote off the player?

[Xite91]

Looking at some of Fan's points, particularly the one about Ed's "slip", makes me think he isn't reading very closely. I made the mistake at first, but now that we've all gone over the mistake I think it's pretty obvious.

Considering how many posts there were about it, I agree

[Xite91]

My vote isn't changing unless it needs to in order to secure a lynch at deadline. What brought ani to my attention was the ordeal regarding ani thinking batt claimed

scum

, and while I've never really felt good about him based on anything, I haven't really paid much attention to him either. I feel like my opinion of ani could change with a better player in the slot, but my opinion of SSBF is not likely to change at all.

Uhm... he didn't claim scum, though.

[Xite91]

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
Oh well, go town!