/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[AdumbroDeus]

Ok, just did a marathon catch-up session, slightly intimidated by the playerlist, but let's see how this goes.


I really don't like Vas' play, I especially don't like his excuse for not scumhunting, I have yet to see him make a legitimately useful post in the game. Add to that his defense strikes me as a bit... pathetic, especially early on. Concision is nice, but he barely seems to address the actual points.


I don't really like Rhinox either, limited overall contribution but regular enough to not draw attention, get a slight "attempting to blend read", but that's partially counterbalanced by the unsafe mirth call-out.


Speaking of blending, there's somebody who seems far more guilty of this, SpyreX, why are you posting so little content atm?

@Vas

: Could you provide the latecomer with a clear and concise case for why you're not scum and Sereph is?

@Rhinox and SpyreX

: As of right now, who do you wanna lynch toDay and why?

[AdumbroDeus]

*Taps foot at SpyreX and VasudeVa*


I don't like people ignoring my questions.

VOTE: VasudeVa

[AdumbroDeus]

@Vas

: Could you provide the latecomer with a clear and concise case for why you're not scum and Sereph is?

Hello-not-reading-the-thread. Other people have explained it far better than I did and this question has been getting old. Basically: Seraphim has been pushing the argument that I've been coached to play like a VI to not get vigged. I mean, read below:

My counter-argument: I think that the scum team either figured that VV would be less likely of a vig target if he acted like he did now, playing up the VI aspect of his play and trying to convince people of that aspect, or that VV was expendable.

This is stupid because its stupid.

I was looking for you to try to convince me rather then a regurgitation of one of his possible ideas to explain your obvious-scum behavior.


You haven't.



UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpyreX

Still waiting SpyreX.




I've got a null tell on Zoraster atm and that wagon gained momentium WAY too fast for my liking.

[AdumbroDeus]

@Rhinox and SpyreX: As of right now, who do you wanna lynch toDay and why?

This is what you're still waiting on?

VV or Zor.

VV is pretty clear.

Zor, again, could not have reread and missed that. Its flat impossible.

Yes, I would've preferred an answer with more information.


UNVOTE:


Question, does Zor normally have a reputation as an intelligent player?

[AdumbroDeus]

Shock and awe VV thinks someone who think's he's scum is scum. WHAT A SURPRISE.

This is why SpyreX is scum.

....

Errr, care to explain?







As far as zoraster, I'd be down for his lynch, skimming in general is anti-town, and from a normally analytical player...

However I'd much prefer VV dying toDay. Since deadline is pretty soon I'll check back late tonight and vote Zoraster if necessary.

VOTE: VasudeVa


Mith is definitely not the lynch today, he's leaning town IMO, but I need a reread.

[AdumbroDeus]

AdumbroDeus, Kmd: VV doesn't have the votes to be lynched by deadline, but DGB may. Thoughts on DGB?

Note: I don't think anyone should be switching from the zoraster wagon unless they are definitely going to be on again before deadline. There are currently enough of us available to switch to zoraster to avoid no lynch, but someone switching to DGB and then not being around to switch back might leave us in no-lynch land, if DGB doesn't have the votes.

If necessary I'll switch my vote to zoraster to secure a lynch, but I think VV is obviousscum, TBH I'm wondering why the heck he's still alive.


DGB is probably town imo.

[AdumbroDeus]

I've got a null tell on Zoraster atm and that wagon gained momentium WAY too fast for my liking.

As far as zoraster, I'd be down for his lynch, skimming in general is anti-town, and from a normally analytical player...

Hmm. So what changed between getting a null "tell" and being anti-town in general? What's wrong with a wagon gaining momentum shortly before deadline?

Also a general lack of substantiation of opinions...

I've got a null tell on Zoraster atm

Mith is definitely not the lynch today, he's leaning town IMO, but I need a reread.

DGB is probably town imo.

Simple, I asked people to convince me, I was convinced that he was a reasonable lynch option, not that I jumped on the wagon, I tried to get an alternative wagon going, but there's no chance of it working now.



Regardless, my concern was that it could be scum-led, hence why I was hesitant to toss my vote in yet.

So I'll hammer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zoraster


We don't have time for any other option, and there's rarely anything worse then a no lynch.

[AdumbroDeus]

Blatant prod dodge, busy with school and there's a lot of material here that I wanna take into account.

[AdumbroDeus]

After rereading the exchange I'm pretty sure Mith is town, he had every reason to jump on the bandwagon at the time considering that we needed a lynch and zoraster wasn't exactly cooperating and overall and he's made no substantative scumslips in my mind.

DGB is imo still town, his initial gambit while wierd strikes me as something really stupid for scum to do, and there's nothing he's done during the game which changes my overall impression of him. His analysis also strikes me as a legitimate attempt, though I'm not sure if he's right.


VV is almost definitely scum, I don't buy the "too dumb to be scum" defense at all.


Leaning a town read on KMD (so yes, imo this whole fight is an inter-townie thing).


I have an interested null tell on SpyreX.

@SpyreX

: What's your overall town/scum list? I'd like to see some stances from you beyond the lynch of the day, also why.

[AdumbroDeus]

I'm almost positive that Mith and DGB are having a townie fight, I like KMD too, but not as much as the former two.

Slight town read SpyreX.


Unsure of the others so far.

Let's please stop helping scum find the two remaining power roles, shall we?

Dear god this, why were were discussing it in the first place.


*narrows eyes at all involved parties*

[AdumbroDeus]

AdumbroDeus: How complete would you say your marathon catch-up session was?

I read everything that came up.



Why am I being so ignored, and why does Rhinox seem so convinced I'm town? I think this justifies a reread.


Also, why are so many lynches building force so fast?

*adds plum to reread list*



Plume I don't see much from you, what's your scum/town list atm?

[AdumbroDeus]

AdumbroDeus: You read everything that came up? And nothing stood out as noteworthy about Kmd?

Nothing that changed my read on him.


If you want me to break down exactly why I think KMD is town, I can easily do that, but that was primarily to express what I thought, I didn't think I was gone long enough to classify it as a "catch-up post".

[AdumbroDeus]

Thank you Fate, I appreciate it.

AdumbroDeus: Kmd is a Tracker. Discuss.

And?


This is not exactly new information, we talked about this in regards to the zoraster lynch yesterday.

[AdumbroDeus]

So, you are aware of that, but you are

leaning

town on him, and you "like KMD too, but not as much as the former two [mith and DGB]"?

I was dealing with my reads there so a bit of a brainfart.


You can't have missed something that you referenced to earlier.

I have a bad gut feeling on you. It's mostly due to your lack of contribution throughout, but I also agreed with Fate's assessment of your catchup post - which I did note in my post. I also noticed that you (and Zorblag/AdumbroDeus) avoided both of the town lynches.

Tiny correction here, I didn't quite avoid it, I dropped in to post friday night to make sure we got a lynch, thought zora was at l-1 and thought I dropped the hammer.


(yea I skimmed for that, late friday night and fairly inebriated at the time).

[AdumbroDeus]

Ooba and plume seem to be playing disturbing similar, I get a blend vibe from both of them, still I'd prefer nobody get lynched till Plume actually drops by and responds, if at all, I wanna see what she has to say before committing to a lynch.

Mith

, care to ask me a useful question?

Or anybody

for that matter?


Also, V/LA this weekend .

[AdumbroDeus]

Not satisfied, way too safe of a post, all it tells me is that Plume doesn't wanna get lynched.


Ok, I'm fine with the Plume lynch.


Plumegranate

[AdumbroDeus]

ebwop: wrong tag.
VOTE: Plumegranate



Also, I strongly doubt VV (now Hacker) is a vig.

[AdumbroDeus]

Sticking firm with the plum wagon unless the deadline approaches (about 3 hours, 30 minutes atm) and we still don't have a lynch, but I dunno if I'll have a chance to log on then.


At least the flip will be very useful regardless of the side.

[AdumbroDeus]

Bad read... was probably gonna back a lynch on Rhinox due to my town read on DGB, and then DGB had a scummy breakdown.


Argh.




VOTE: HackerHuck


My opinions on this slot are well known.


L-2




Also, yeah, KMD still being alive and not being roleblocked at all is odd, CC for the last PR slot?

[AdumbroDeus]

(The last line of AdumbroDeus' post is super-scummy, btw. At the moment, my list looks like this:

Why?

I can't be legit concerned that maybe we're looking at the possibility that we're looking at another two PR claims?

Nothing I said forces a PR to claim, I just think the possibility is something we should be aware of sooner rather then later.

[AdumbroDeus]

I would think that this should be obvious by now...

I'm not scum, I'm just the resident VI. I wasn't prepared for the level of play in this game, tried my best to figure it out, but in the end wasn't good enough. Do a bit of research both here on smashboards on my meta, I'm a much stronger scum player then this, the only other game where I really played badly was where I got lost as town (of God's and Men).


I would've never protected DGB if I was scum, I've opened cases against my scummates on more then one occasion.

[AdumbroDeus]

I would think that this should be obvious by now...

I'm not scum, I'm just the resident VI. I wasn't prepared for the level of play in this game, tried my best to figure it out, but in the end wasn't good enough. Do a bit of research both here on smashboards on my meta, I'm a much stronger scum player then this, the only other game where I really played badly was where I got lost as town (of God's and Men).


I would've never protected DGB if I was scum, I've opened cases against my scummates on more then one occasion.

Wait, WTH? Don't go playing the VI card on me, mister. Now, an actual defense would be appreciated.

And how am I supposed to post a legit defense if I have yet to wrap my head around the game?


My claim is VT, I was attempting to breadcrumb a PR to get NK'd, didn't work.



Out of curiosity, who did you guys think I was an alt for? (The answer is no btw, I'm not an alt, Mith should know this)

[AdumbroDeus]

Show me those supposed breadcrumbs lackey.

Let's please stop helping scum find the two remaining power roles, shall we?

Dear god this, why were were discussing it in the first place.


*narrows eyes at all involved parties*

Also, yeah, KMD still being alive and not being roleblocked at all is odd, CC for the last PR slot?

There and there I tried to do it, obviously was too clumsy about it.

Coupled with blatant lack of presence (which actually had a lot more to do with lack of time, but also difficulty digesting the game) I hoped would be sufficient to bait it.

[AdumbroDeus]

Adumbro - How did you think you could breadcrumb a PR when you don't know which PR is out there?

Through patterns of behavior that would seem to indicate a PR.

I guess "breadcrumbing" isn't the right term for this, more along the lines of "committing noticeable PR tells".


Obviously I couldn't do anything that hinted at a specific PR, but I could do my best to do general PR behavior and hope for the best.

[AdumbroDeus]

AdumbroDeus' "I was trying to look like a power role" claim is... weird. Not that the strategy itself is bad or scummy, but he quoted two posts as attempts at looking like a power role, and neither of them really look like he was giving much of an effort at it if that's what he was really doing. (The first is just quoting and reiterating what others had already said, the second... doesn't look like something that would come from a power role.) On the other hand, it would be an odd thing for scum to claim (unless he was searching for a better explanation for the Kmd comment, I guess). Meh.

Fate: At the moment, I would rather lynch you than ooba.

VOTE: Ellibereth

Look at context though, I brought it up well after the fact, sort of an attempt to really reach to protect PRs from being outed.


Second one I was looking to create the impression that maybe I'd be the one CCing if another PR claim popped up.

[AdumbroDeus]

Adumbro was clearly going to fakeclaim a power role as scum, but didn't because it would be certain death (counterclaim etc), so this was the best he could come up with.

So you admit the pattern there that suggested I was trying to cultivate the impression that I was a PR, so now make the assumption that I knew what I'm being a VI, why continue this pattern of after the death of rhinox unless I was trying to specifically out a PR? If I was trying to out a PR with my death, why back off and instead claim that I was trying to get NK'd?


Scum at the very least would try to salvage the situation by outing a PR. It's not like this claim is likely to stop me from getting mislynched if not today, then next game day probably, so why would I take this route?

It makes no logical sense for me to play the way I did and ultimately back off here if I was actually planning to fakeclaim a PR.

[AdumbroDeus]

No, no, no.

My theory is that you were going to claim a power role, but realized that doing so would mean a lynch, so you decided not to do it SO YOU COULD STAY ALIVE.

A DUMB BRO IS OBVSCUMOBVSCUMDIEDIEDIE.

LYNCH PLZ.

Which again doesn't answer the very obvious question of why I didn't just take the path of letting myself get lynched to out a PR?

[AdumbroDeus]

But if I'm scum, I'm not a VI, I just got picked out as scum and chose an outlandish defense.


Regardless, VI is relative to the game, I've shown more then competent play on numerous occasions, this game just went totally over my head. That fact doesn't mean I'd disregard basic principals like playing to win and that no individual is greater then the faction.

Meta me, look at my scum performance in Square-Enix mafia and my smashboards games if you wanna contrast my current play, I'm not the VI cause I'm dumb, I'm a VI I'm not strong enough for this crowd.

[AdumbroDeus]

Frankly, the discussion seemed closed even when you posted it, leading me to suspect you were setting up some breadcrumbs yourself, though i didn't notice anything else to support it, so i dismissed it.

[AdumbroDeus]

...the discussion seemed closed, after SpyreX asked about the kills in 1404 and Fate speculated on the kills in 1406?

*rereads*


Obviously I'm just going insane, I must have made an epic misread to post it then.


God my play was so bad this game *takes dunce hat and sits in the corner*

[AdumbroDeus]

Trying to be useful while still alive.

<b>@ Everyone: <b> Thoughts on hackerhuck's post, I know I goofed royally (not cause I wasn't attempting to pay attention, I just felt overwhelmed by this game), so I think the going impression should be obvious scum, post his post feels legit. Trying to score townie points by saying "I told you so" when I flip town as scum or legitimately attempting to protect somebody he thinks is reasonably likely to be town?

[AdumbroDeus]

EBWOP, wrong bolding format.

Trying to be useful while still alive.

@ Everyone

: Thoughts on hackerhuck's post, I know I goofed royally (not cause I wasn't attempting to pay attention, I just felt overwhelmed by this game), so I think the going impression should be obvious scum, post his post feels legit. Trying to score townie points by saying "I told you so" when I flip town as scum or legitimately attempting to protect somebody he thinks is reasonably likely to be town?

[AdumbroDeus]

It was, wanted to see people's reactions to hackerhuck's statements before the lynch happened.


*sigh*

Not liking ooba now, but whatever.


Any last minute twilight questions?



And I really gotta apologize for my play over this game, I obviously couldn't even make scum think I was a PR. As I said, I got lost cause you guys were playing above my level, I'd appreciate any commentary on my play in the post-game to point out my mistakes in the attempt to make scum read me as a PR, and reading in general, more experience I guess.


Sorry folks.

[AdumbroDeus]

I'm leaning on it being scummy, I wanna draw attention to it so others can decide if it's scummy.

[AdumbroDeus]

EBWOP: Leaning TOWARDS it being scummy.



Also, g2g, s won't have a chance to say more sorry, unless it's like this minute.

[AdumbroDeus]

As I said I was merely dumb as rocks this game.


Bah, go town.

[AdumbroDeus]

And I fucked up horribly this game...


I apologize, though I'm in good company I guess.

[AdumbroDeus]

Except I played weakly in a scummy way.

Especially when I misremembered my reasoning for jumping on the "don't out the PR bandwagon" the way I did.




Gah, I can't believe how badly played this game, all my reads were off and I misunderstood a shitload of what people were actually doing.


I'm gonna be beating myself up over this performance for a LONG time.

[AdumbroDeus]

I knew I was out of my league, so I tried to be creative.


Didn't help but at least i tried.