/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[PokerFace]

Hello. Me and probably any other recent replacements would like a summary as reading this entire thing by deadline is unlikly. I probably won't be able to read it all til a good night phase arrives. Will likly just focus on current game day and summary

[PokerFace]

also

Unvote

in case eek is doing that. I'll figure out where my vote belongs later

[PokerFace]

How are you confirmed town?. I've read a few things from the start of this day about you being a tracker but how was all that confirmed exactly?

[PokerFace]

A is false
If B was true you wouldn't loose so many bets
C is unlikly as I don't think elmo was ever big on crumbing and crumbing vig isn't something I would normally do, wouldn't need to
D is for the lulz

ok I'm convinced on one thing I'll look at the fruitsisters and mith later on

[PokerFace]

Posting while on break, I read alot yesterday and planned to post tonight but car tire went flat on way to work and I barely made it to work late after a go around with AAA. I'll need new tire after work to get home so next time I post is uncertain but I will get something done on the weekend I hope

[PokerFace]

Tire fixed but still behind. Christ you guys love walls of text more than me. I am starting to think I'll have to grossly change my playstyle to keepup

Can I get the case on the fruit sisters in a nutshell?

Hey Fate, I seem to remember ooba flipping on alot of his reads in the "of gods and men game" Dramonic pointed that out there on day 2 or 3 i think and you should remember that as the 3 of us were in that game. Does ooba flipping on reads here bear any resemblance to that game and why?

Did Elmo claim who he killed and why? Mith pointed out what might be a slip of DGB saying mafia got tajo and i want to see if it has merit

I am gonna go back and read why DGB first claimed hider and then rescinded it

[PokerFace]

I don't think i'm gonna have time to read everything so I am doing what I think is most important

I don't really see the case on ooba. Read him in iso and Seems more like he is changing his mind over time and not having an imediate read flip. Other than that I saw no case so I won't be voting ooba. Ooba seems town for staying off the elmo wagon. If elmo was scum then real vig killing elmo was optimal play over lynching elmo.

_________

DGB's hider gambit was dumb. Not everyone responded to her action before she came forward so it could not be that effective. Also
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2434316
Though her accessment of what Town would do from hearing that claim is correct what scum might do can not be entirly accurate. She considers a scum group that knows there is no hider. How would DGB know at that point that there is a scum group fighting no hider if not everyone claimed? If she is town, she wouldn't know that. So that looks like a slip

Considering the timing of the claim and unclaim this is what could have been accomplished

1. If DGB is scum and thus knew there was no hider in the setup, She gained nothing but having the janitor role for the scum. Janitor is kinda useless role in my opinion and the scum utilized it on a player that was not a power role with info but instead the day 1 lynch. If hoopla was scum, scum didn't want us to know that and wanted us to believe hoops gambit and words. And if hoopla was town then they wanted us to doubt her or gain little from day 1. Day 1's usually gain nothing anyway so it doesn't really look like scum gained anything other than making us confused about hoop's which is minor compared to how janitor could have been saved to muck up power roles. So getting janitor could not have been DGB's ojective unless scum had big saving plans for it. So yay this unlikly. Also when she claimed assassin was starting to gain steam and roleblocker was starting to lose it. No hider and get assassin would make scum awesome so her coming forward before getting assassin is not good. Scum gain little if anything here. Cross it out!

2. If DGB is scum and there is a hider that just didn't claim before then DGB gained knowledge of who isn't the hider to some degree and gained janitor for scum team. I just explained why janitor gaining was worthless. Gaining knowledge of who not hider is good though. let's say there is a hider out there we don't know about but scum do. Then DGB gained who isn't hider and got scum a blocker to use on who is hider so they can kill hider or fool them later. That idea has potential as she even has a limited pool of who hider could be from those that didn't claim. And that might explain why scum didn't block KMD. They were too busy trying to block a real hider. So I am thinking that if we manage to lynch the scum RB we should re-try the hider-nohider claiming. If there is one still about then it would help the town greatly. This however would invalidate what I just pointed out as a slip UNLESS scum DGB just wanted us to think there was no hider in the setup. Yay this is DGB we are talking about here. I don't think she thinks like that. She is sparatice type not the big time out guess type. So this is unlikly but I won't cross it out as worst possibility

3. If DGB town that mispoke about tajo and scum reactions, Then DGB stopped assassin and kept RB going. This could explain her not considering possibility hider was still out there. She didn't want other things to be hammered or wagoned quickly and so didn't say that possibility because she was in a rush. And the tajo thing tajo was the scum kill seemed to be a consensus at that time even with elmo not yet saying who he it. This seems most likly of the 3 to me If someone would like to review my knowledge i would appreciate it since i have not read everything and could have missed something

______

I'm gonna get back to checking mith and the fruits out later on today. I have looked at some but not all of it on them yet and I'd rather give it all at once. As a lynch probably needs to go through before deadline to avoid no lynch, I may have to vote the largest wagon to avoid the nolynch.

[PokerFace]

Actually when I staarted reading and writting that post I thought DGB was scum and as I worked things out it made more sence that she is town. So I was actually surprised i came to that deduction. This is why I asked people to review what I wrote, I wanted a second opinion to see if i had made a drunken mistake or something. And I figured a second opinion would help me even get me some reads on other people. Anyone wanting me to jump to DGB or something nows your chance to convince me. I am not sold on the ooba wagon at all.

Mith and Plumegranate are the remaining wagons I got left to discuss. I don't think Mith wopuld put a vig in this game and I have a vague memory of him not being a vig fan from somewhere in MD. Likely in a PIE vig advice thread. The Fruits had some interesting swaying thoughts on Vasdeva, Zoraster, Troll, and KMD. They shifted, usually in the same post between calling people town or scum or leaning different ways on them. Most of this went on day 1 and 2 in what reads i did of those days. Like they were afraid to give a straight opinion. Given that and the effect that its the largest I think I'll get behind it.

Vote: Plumegranate

I'll try to do some more catchup and post once I'm off work to do more to help at deadline. see you guys later then

[PokerFace]

Ugh, to be honest I haven't gotten the chance to read nearly as much as i have wanted to. Theres probably alot of each case i have missed. Looking at some of what KMD and mith said the previous days about DGB, I definatly have missed a bunch. I think at this point I'll just vote for whatever is the biggest wagon and catch up at night. At the moment Fruit sisters and DGB got same number without me so i guess i can be anywhere. I work at a software company so getting online during downtime or breaks = easy. Or I will be home up until deadline so changing my vote and or hammering at deadline is something I can easily do.

Edit while previewing: Spyre has jumped to DGB so not so even anymore i guess. Anything more than town to claim DGB?

[PokerFace]

Anything more than town to claim DGB?

Shall I?

um yay, quit stalling. I mean what else do you think that coment from me implied? Seriously starting to think talking myself out of it earlier was dumb or like putting my foot in my mouth. At least toenails are crunchy

[PokerFace]

can I get a vote count?

I think spyre rhino and sera should all be on DGB puting her and fruits at same amount though I am not certain

Flay missed spyre earlier i believe

[PokerFace]

I wrote this during night phase so rhinox is still listed. Didn't feel like changing it as I am working some shitty hours today.

KMD obv town, Given the end of the day yesterday sera, mith, rhino = town. Mith stayed on DGB when tide was changing. Rhino drove the nail. Sera was there early too to even the wagons

No read on iam though he was on DGB at start and appeared near deadline so that bodes well for him

ooba was nuetral when i saw no case on him, he leans town now as a result of yesterday

Eleberith I have no read on and he was nowhere to be seen at deadline

Not much of a read on spyreX. He voted elmo who was vig which was bad so that puts him down some

Plum I got as nuetral to scum, I still like some of case that was on her yesterday and if both her and DGB were scum that would explain why DGB flailed madly and went after ooba instead of going after plum near the end of the day. DGB going to ooba instead of the next biggest wagon i think is very telling. she was concerned enough to ask us to save her own skin but not concerned enough to vote the next biggest wagon? something wierd there. She could definatly be paired with one of them.

I lean Scum on Fate given he wanted rhino to full claim when we already got enough PR's out there. Him encouraging rhino to claim looked like fishing for more

Hacker huck and AB didn't jump on DGB when Rhino and the others voted which is puzzling. Hacker much more likly scum as vas's play sucked before while trolls didn't so much. I'll say more about vas's play and suspicions later. AB said he would be on before deadlin on day 3 so i am uncertain as to whether he would have jumped on DGB later. How much were you guys on during deadline beyond your last posts?

Town to Scum
KMD
Rhino
Mith
Sera
IAM
ooba
Elli
SpyreX
AB
Fruits
Fate
Huck

Let's go with the hacker

Vote:Hacker Huck

I have read a good chunk of the game now but still not all. Going mainly on gut and how i feel about the end of yesterday. Anyone who has ever played with me before most likly realizes this is not my usual play style. I usually read alot and post in walls but i'm trying to cut down on that as I tend to over think too much and am trying to cut down on that and or learn not to do that. Yay I def over thought some during day 3. I am also trying something different to cut down on my stress and to cut down on clogging things with even more walls of text as i normally post in walls. See the Of gods and man game and the Monty Python theme games for more detail on my usual playstyle of wall posting.

At any rate this is what I got right now. More to come when i get off work and read more.

[PokerFace]

I have read everything before page 40 and skimed/read most of day 3, just so you know

Why are some people still asking for the missing PR to claim? Elli brings it up and i think thats what AB meant as well. Who or whatever the 4 powerroll is they should keep their mouth shut until its necessary. Elli mentions they should just come out if the 4th is a vidge. I don't see that as a good idea.

1) We don't know 4th is a vidge
2) Whether they are a vidge or not they have not been necessarily blocked everynight as a vidge doesn't have to kill everynight. Not everyone follows that strategy

Speaking of claims there is another reason why asking rhinox to claim was unnecessary. The roles in the setup to come forward KMD and elmo are both town. Rhinox could only have confirming results of seeing a mafia kill, seeing a roleblocker, seeing the town 4th power, seeing someone go nowhere. If Rhinox saw the first i am sure he would have talked about it earlier. You can look back for crumbs if you think he saw the roelblocker but as there is not much way to prove what he saw was a roleblock, I think odds are what would have most likly been gained from rhinox saying more would be X's went nowhere. Which would just tell us who is nilla or a goon and that type of info is more likly to help scum since they would learn who the 4th power most likly isn't.

In summary can we stop with the shenanigans of asking the 4th to claim?

@Mith, in my reads i am yet to read a case on elli. Other than him asking for the 4th I haven't read other problems with him. Is there an exact place in the game where he exhibits something else scummy that i have not gotten to yet?

I did find it interesting he brought this up first though
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2467014

[PokerFace]

unless i truly fail at reading i think only 2 are dead

[PokerFace]

I am a little surprised with the speed of the hacker wagon but i am still supporting it

Things I didn't like about VV include he was first to join DGB on the zoraster wagon that was created over zoraster hating DGB's fake hider claim. And VV complained some people were lazy wagoning him at first when he was lazy wagoning instead of scum hunting himself. Also I don't think his play here matches is play in OGAM. In that game i was scum and there was no case on him involving him being a VI. I did not consider him one during that game. Only case that ever got on him was action/role confusion. Other than that is he was not scummy as town there. So if he or anyone else was trying to say he is always scummy and non-hunting as town that is wrong.

Though Huck can't really account for those things since he ain't the same guy, so I'll ask him why he thought DGB was town? And exactly how close he was on before deadline on Day 3? You can be online and not post in our game so I'm wondering if he was on and might have to posted elsewhere, I guess i can just look into that myself later. Did Huck say he was considering changing his vote to DGB during his last post on day 3? I didn't think he did.

Also I got a question for Fate. Why do you play mafia? How often would you say you bring up cases as aposed to hop on wagons to pressure for info?

Also to clarify the only obv town is KMD. He is obv cause well he is confirmed. I think Sera, Mith are town as a result of yesterday and how they went after DGB. They are not obv town I just think it is very likly and have no desire to lynch either of them today. Town Read on Sera strengthens if Huck is scum since he has been behind that wagon for a long time. I am yet to read what Fate just pointed out about AB/Troll. I'll get to that later

[PokerFace]

Mith, Adumbro wagon > Ellie wagon. I have serious Ellie meta that indicates he would have bussed DGB more actively saying things like "DIS IZ noT DGB TOWN" or something, instead of ignoring DGB all game. More likely is that he just had DGB read as town and forgot about him.


@Poker: Mindlessly wagon? *looks back* I'm pretty sure I've done nothing but START wagons all game.

Surely you are referring to my play in our last game together, where I just wagonned because I WASNT READIN THE GAME,

and my town reads still managed to be 100% spot on. But this game? I've wagonned no more than any other player. Which means you ARENT PAYIN ATTENTION.

Yes that. Didn't realize you weren't reading that game though. As I am yet to read everything here i guess i can realize that in retrospec. I had also read some opinions by others about your play in other games before i joined here. I had heard bad things given the fall of invitational 6 and some other things. If what you say is true then that's what I want to hear, and I'll likly change where i got you in my suspicions when i am caught up.

[PokerFace]

<<At work

I should be done with my readings tonight and i'll get a post with changed reads of everything up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry this has taken so long

[PokerFace]

Confirmed*
KMD

Town*
Mith
Sera
IAM

Likly Town*
Fruits
Fate
Elli
SpyreX

Likly Scum*
Huck
ooba
AdumbroDeus

Ok upon looking back DGB kinda spontaneously attacked the fruit sisters and a few others. don't think there is anything really telling in her going after them like that. Given the rest of their play and the end of yesterday i am leaning more toward ooba being the one with a conection to DGB given her voting him over self perserving herself and going after plum. He attack on plum stopped right after the claim. All she ever wanted was PR's gone perhaps regardless my suspicion of the fruits is down with this in mind.

Vas did a few random things during the ooba wagons that make me question his alignment. things don't entirly seem to contain the direction of an informed individual with a task of eliminating town. Still I see a few connections to him and my other suspects so he remains pretty low.

Spyre and Elli are pretty much same spot as before. Their shifting is mainly a result of the shifting of others.

I see some connection between ooba and AB and some connection between him and DGB given what KMD pointed out. Pending AB's flip his position may change

What I don't like about AB are as follows. Troll pointed out early on that what he considered best janitor play was to invalidate day 1 by using their skill then. I don't recall Hoopla's gambit containing an element of trying to look like a PR so something that may have aided her sucess could be troll's advise being scum driven.

AB earlier said this about Vas

I really don't like Vas' play, I especially don't like his excuse for not scumhunting, I have yet to see him make a legitimately useful post in the game. Add to that his defense strikes me as a bit... pathetic, especially early on. Concision is nice, but he barely seems to address the actual points.

after he vote Vas

@Vas

: Could you provide the latecomer with a clear and concise case for why you're not scum and Sereph is?

Hello-not-reading-the-thread. Other people have explained it far better than I did and this question has been getting old. Basically: Seraphim has been pushing the argument that I've been coached to play like a VI to not get vigged. I mean, read below:

My counter-argument: I think that the scum team either figured that VV would be less likely of a vig target if he acted like he did now, playing up the VI aspect of his play and trying to convince people of that aspect, or that VV was expendable.

This is stupid because its stupid.

I was looking for you to try to convince me rather then a regurgitation of one of his possible ideas to explain your obvious-scum behavior.


You haven't.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpyreX

Still waiting SpyreX.

I've got a null tell on Zoraster atm and that wagon gained momentium WAY too fast for my liking.

he unvotes while still not being satisified

Shock and awe VV thinks someone who think's he's scum is scum. WHAT A SURPRISE.

This is why SpyreX is scum.

Errr, care to explain?

As far as zoraster, I'd be down for his lynch, skimming in general is anti-town, and from a normally analytical player...

However I'd much prefer VV dying toDay. Since deadline is pretty soon I'll check back late tonight and vote Zoraster if necessary.

VOTE: VasudeVa


Mith is definitely not the lynch today, he's leaning town IMO, but I need a reread.

AdumbroDeus, Kmd: VV doesn't have the votes to be lynched by deadline, but DGB may. Thoughts on DGB?

Note: I don't think anyone should be switching from the zoraster wagon unless they are definitely going to be on again before deadline. There are currently enough of us available to switch to zoraster to avoid no lynch, but someone switching to DGB and then not being around to switch back might leave us in no-lynch land, if DGB doesn't have the votes.

If necessary I'll switch my vote to zoraster to secure a lynch, but I think VV is obviousscum, TBH I'm wondering why the heck he's still alive.


DGB is probably town imo.

VV is almost definitely scum, I don't buy the "too dumb to be scum" defense at all.

And AB is using the VI defence. Yay something definatly looks scummy there as there is a comparision between those 2 antics. I also don't see how AB's comments look anything like crumbs I fail to see how he thought he'd draw a kill with just that. Yay I think I'm down for his lynch.

Anyone see reason for me to wait on this? otherwise let's get the show on the road

VOTE: AdumbroDeus

I'd also like a prod on those players that are now over the 48 hour mark. They should be given a chance to say something before the hammer.

and after they do, anyone who's on board with AdumbroDeus being scum from the non-voters can drop the hammer.

[PokerFace]

Either I am a (Vanilla) Townsperson, or I am the Vig and think there is enough of a chance that I can get two shots off to warrant my staying hidden.

I'm gonna read things a little closer before i do anything else

[PokerFace]

If one assumes me to be scum, then Spyrex's switch looks pretty scummy.

...

Pokerface switch looks really scummy if I'm scum, slightly less scummy with me as town.

Hi, I'm HackerHuck, and I know my goose is cooked, so I'm just leaving you guys a bottle of WIFOM to remember me by when you're trying to find my partners.

Really, give me one reason why you would ever say these things as town.

Yes, if Hacker Huck was town he wouldn't be telling us to consider the options of him being scum. He is obviously just trying to drag down me and spyreX at this point so that Mith will go after us next.

Considering that^ and the slip Mith found and the stuff I said at the start of yesterday (Vas's play was scummy and bad, connections to DGB) I think we got obv scum caught.

And mith I won't defend anything SK and Eek did as I am not them and wouldn't know how. As far as my play day 3 that concerns you, yay I fucked up and over thought that. should of gone with my first impulse or read more instead or practically phoning it in and agreeing to vote whoever had most. If you want I can provide 2 meta instances where I was town and deliberatly stayed silent because i wanted to see if any scum would come out or out themselves. In Dynamite Mafia I knew Ultima Avalon was not entirly killed by Adel the moment I read it and said so. I kept my mouth shut and acted like everyone else to see what they would do. In Satin Doll I didn't vote or hammer any scums until just before deadlines. I had planned to do they same here if Fate had not beat me to it wuith DGB. Ironically Erg0 and Tar drug me to the grave later since Incognito said I was connected to them. I'll get you links to those games in a moment so you can read I am telling you the truth. Other than this there is nothing else I can say.

I currently suspect Hacker for reasons given. Ooba for rushing yesterday, some connections he has to DGB and various instances of IIOA that Fate pointed out. And I think either The fruits or Fate is the last scum. More so Fate given SpyreX had to point out to him that other option in his plan and really was the curse word needed in your vote? Its a bit of a weak suspicion though so ooba should be tomorrow's lynch and there should be deep thought about Fate vs Fruits or SpyreX should HH be trying to clear SpyreX and frame me with what he said before. But yes HH and then Ooba need to die. We can figure out true last scums after that since I am not sure

I'm ready to vote Hacker Huck when you guys are though given my vote would put hacker at L-1. After seeing how yesterday went I am going to ask if there is anything else anyone else wants to talk about before I do this?

[PokerFace]

Satin Doll
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8276

Dynamite Stick
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8119

Other than this I got nothing else

Likly Town
mith
iam
Seph/replacer

One is scum
SpyreX
Fruits
Fate

scum
ooba
HH

[PokerFace]

actually I suspect fruits less given if they were scum DGB would have told them to claim tracker and out rhino instead. so yay flip them and spyreX.

[PokerFace]

Yes, if Hacker Huck was town he wouldn't be telling us to consider the options of him being scum. He is obviously just trying to drag down me and spyreX at this point so that Mith will go after us next.

How does this make sense. If I were to flip scum, why would Mith listen to me?

actually I suspect fruits less given if they were scum DGB would have told them to claim tracker and out rhino instead. so yay flip them and spyreX.

Smells a bit like bussing, knowing how I'll flip.

If you were town then you would know you would flip town. Thus you wouldn't need to waste your breath telling us what you being scum would mean. The fact you are saying it basically means Iamusername is right. You are using wifom

That analysis said, amongst other awesome things:

If I'm scum, SpyreX is scum.
If I'm town, SpyreX is scum.

Which is really cool with that PF vote.

Pardon? You agreeing with me and saying you got no problem with me putting him at L-1 or is this addressed to something else?

Fate's unvote feels odd. Why do you want to hear from CTD if you thought he was scum and voted Hacker so harshly earlier? Yep I think HH, Ooba, Fate

Edit while preview: ok he thinks he might want ooba dead instead, thats fine, still surprised he would want to hear from CTD though at any rate since this wouldn't put HH at L-1 and CTD should still get time before hammer while huck at L-2

Vote: Hacker Huck

[PokerFace]

K, and I am fine with them posting as they indeed should before day end and they still got time as long as no one puts him at L-1 and or hammers. Do you disagree with my time assessment or think I should unvote?

I'll go through and get other comments you want when off work

[PokerFace]

K, and I am fine with them posting as they indeed should before day end and they still got time as long as no one puts him at L-1 and or hammers. Do you disagree with my time assessment or think I should unvote?

^directed at spyreX

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2567785

I'll go through and get other comments you want when off work

^directed at ooba's last post

[PokerFace]

Day doesn't end until Ooba's catch-up post is posted, I destroy it, he is lynched instead, and CTD posts.

You can try ..

Ooba for rushing yesterday, some connections he has to DGB and various instances of IIOA that Fate pointed out.

- How would you reconcile DGB avoiding the second biggest wagon other than hers to vote me (end of day play)?
- I remember one instance where Fate called me out for IIOA. "Various"?
Overall, pretty weak reasons for setting up my lynch tomorrow .. Also if HH is lynched today and flips town, will that change anything?

Preview: Spyrex, you're saying post or be replaced?

She was either distancing from her scum buddy you or she had a reason for keeping her buddy fruits alive. if the second was true she would have never been the first to bring suspicion on the fruits. And why not have her buddy claim tracker otherwise. Its more rational that the antics there point to you.

Various? I thought there was more than one but on looking back i guess there was only one. Fate is welcome to elaborate on his case of you since he very well didn't destroy your last post

@Fate,

read the part in that post which is an

edit by preview

I misunderstood what you did there. I'm keeping it in mind in case it becomes relevant later but if not then it don't matter.

@Fruits PlumPom,

you said you have trouble believing in 2 vigs with VV as scum. How notorious of a VI is VV? I had no inkling of said reputation before my entry to this game

If HH scum I think as i have previously mentioned. If HH town then i may have to take a good look at spyreX or CTD, though i am kinda doubting I'll have to do that. Third there i guess could be fate or Iam as fruits and mith seem unconnected to DGB due to earlier observations

[PokerFace]

VLA until Monday Oct 18

[PokerFace]

Yes let's let CTD finish. He will likly realize suspicion of mith is wrong after he gets to seeing the DGB wagon and lynch I don't think he has gotten to that based on his analysis so far

I like how people are starting to see the Huck ooba pairing, granted there is some even I need to catch up on though. Got to see if ooba better lynch than huck. My access for weekend is getting better though not 100% so staying with that note in my sig. Gonna try to be caught up on monday at latest

[PokerFace]

I haven't read everything yet that occured over the past few days but I was am considering voting ooba. I may be willing to drop the hammer once I'm all caught up, though there is one thing I'd like to say first

Basically both hacker and ooba seem scum and or scum buddies

if both are scum then I am uncertain as to who 3rd member is

if only ooba is scum I'd wager his buddies were spryX and Iamuser. Iamuser because he tried to push hacker wagon at a time the momentum was shifting to ooba. And spyreX because I don't see plum, mith, fate or CTD being the last one in that group. Process of elimination. I'd rather have more than that to vote for somebody but if we get to one scum left than that case would be enough

if only hacker is scum I think Fate and one other is scum. Fate because he started the ABD and the ooba wagons at times where hacker was a likly lynch. Not certain who last member would be. Possible spyreX for the same reason that I don't see anyone else possibly being paired here either

You guys want me to drop the hammer when I am caught up or wait for both me and CTD to get caught up?

[PokerFace]

I caught up and read the things I missed. I'd be happy with a lynch of either HH or ooba as both can be scum and can be scum together. After CTD catches up I'll change my vote if its needed

[PokerFace]

Well this looks actually quite simple. Mith isn't scum because of the DGB incident. Plum isn't scum for the same reasons i said yesterday.

Fate could have easily let Hacker get lynched a day sooner without effort. He had no reason to go after ADB as scum. He was so lazy in the Of gods and man game not reading everything. He wouldn't go after ADB unless he truly had some motivation. I still don't think ADB was really acting much like a Power Role so I don't see scum fate going after him for that. Only way Fate would have spent effort to lynch one townie over another would be if Fate was town and really thought ADB was more likly scum.

With those three ruled out and knowing what I role i have its got to be IAM and SpyreX. If we can figure out which one is the Roleblocker they should obv die first. I'll go back and check Rhinox's posts and see if he could have caught something like that. Other than that I think i'd lynch either one of them. I'll go back and check the thread to see if one is worse than the other and thus a better option than just process of elimination. i'll try and post monday or tuesday at the latest.

[PokerFace]

Checked rhinox's day 2 and 3 posts. found no crumbs. will do more tomorrow

[PokerFace]

<<Not countering

just so you know. I won't discuss how I feel about the claim until everyone else checks in and I'm all caught up on things

[PokerFace]

WTF?! I just read 2010-2015. How the hell did spyreX quote 2015 in 2010? I've been sober for about a month now and never done drugs, wtf. I didn't didn't rent out my time machine to anyone in this thread..... at least not yet

[PokerFace]

Wow didn't see that coming. I had written mith off as town because i thought he was vig that shot elli. He was only person to be suspecting elli back then so it made sence to me. i am surprised fate would kill elli but as no one is countering and shouldn't since if fate was not vig, the real vig should try to lynch blocker and shoot fate at night. or get himself killed at night as he lynches the janitor scum. Vig getting himself killed would out fate as liar. in general fate not todays lynch. And if Mith were town he should have thought this

I would never have killed CTD. Check any game where i was scum. Especially this one:
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8144
I kept The Jester and armlyx alive to endgame. If i am scum and someone thinks i am town i keep them alive forever. I kill those that suspect me and CTD didn't do that. I would have shot Plum or mith last night as scum as mith has suspected me and both Iam and Spyre X have said i looked town as a result of MME's play not making sence coming from scum whether it be MME ignorance or his pro mass claim they both called me townie at one point or another early in their posts for MME. So i would keep them alive indeed. Plum has not suspected me and yet has also not said anything good about me and as no one suspects plum that would indeed be kill i'd consider

Mith definatly seemed to be trying to counter and then held off. Town mith got no reason to try and look like a vig especially if he were a vig as i already gave best real vig strategy. And as I thought mith was vig and i can see why he thought he could pull off such a claim. Mith backed off and Iam seemed to catch this. Iam looks town as a result and as fate is not todays lynch and plum is town for logic i gave earlier scum must be mith and spyre X.

Fate, I'll nom you for scummy after this if its what you want and town wins this. Just tell me what award in particular and you got my support

Note i actually don't think scum no killed night 1. I think they must have killed same player one of vigs killed i mean seriously scum would always shoot to get victory sooner over causing confusing among vigs which ultimatly makes their job take longer. Mithscum saw only one kill two kills instead of three next morning and saw KMD caught elmo vig and figured now was time to direct vig. I doubt he would no kill and plan far ahead he most likly just improvised

Also Fate i got no problem with you shooting me or spyreX tonight. As mith likly blocker and spyreX likly janiotr you win game by killing spyrex or you give plum and iam easy win tomorrow as spyrex obv choice with me vidged at night.

You online Fate? any reason you want me to hold my vote and or wait for plum or i am on anything. If not I'm down for lynching mith.

[PokerFace]

i take it you don't want me to wait then

Vote: Mith

if you wrong though i retract noming you for anything.

[PokerFace]

I think you are vig fate I gave those comments there as if there was someone else as vig that is what they should do. Mith has claimed not vig, spyreX and iam did the same practically and plum already claimed nilla

I am slightly hesitant since i am more sure spyreX scum given earlier thinking going into the day. But i supose you do make a valid point about spyreX and Mith scum being screwed it mith went down today. Either spyreX scum is distancing while mith hopes to get pomplum and Iam on me and then spyreX plans to vote switch and hammer me for the win as they block and kill you at night or mith is scum with someone else. either possibility as mith as scum and more likly roleblocker

I think if Iam and spyreX were scum like i surmised earlier Iam would already have jumped on mith like spyreX did and road with you and pomplum mislynching mith for the win while blocking you and killing you at night. Iam scum wouldn't waste time saying he would consider voting me

[PokerFace]

After today?

No way.

PF/Iaun/Plum has a better shot than Mith/Iaun/Plum

reading through last few posts clinches it for me. SpyreX just said things that make it looklike he wants me dead before mith. He thinks me dieing today would get mith lynched in endgame now. Him and mith trying to milk me for the mislynch win. this game in the bag

Also this thing you guys call sleep i am off work tomorrow sleep is nothing to me

[PokerFace]

That would be because i am town and would def not nom you for anything should we loose cause i got mislynched via spyreX and mith manipulation of you and others

MITH IS STILL AROUND CAUSE THE VIG (ME) NEEDED TO BE SHOT. ???

um you asking a question of me here? I don't quite comprehend

I am and mith not seem like scum together and iam's unvote of no lynch would make no sence if they together. that post make much better sence as iam thinking like me that mith was vig orginally and so he asked mith firmly. Mith paniced after that and went after me. Iam scum would have tried to do something else there is he were with mith. I think he would be trying to get me dead with some actuall effort and case on me being scum as apposed to saying he is leaning my way. Scum iam would be trying to convince people some townie is scum as apposed to just saying direction he leans

[PokerFace]

scum aim would want to convince others vote me so he can win as apposed to saying what and where he would be voting

this is now why i more firmly think spyreX and mith as spyreX and mith are actually saying bad things or trying to make convincing cases while both plum and iam are thinking and looking through things. You are also trying to make a case yes but i already explained why i don't think you scum

[PokerFace]

FOR NO REASON, AT ALL, WHATSOEVER, WILL POKERFACE BE PUT AT L-1 WHILE SPYREX'S VOTE IS STILL ON MITH. IS THIS CLEAR LADIES?

My head's all fucked up. Iamscum is becoming more possible but it would require super solid play by that slot. Mith/Iaun stonewalling until they get their PF lynch makes perfect sense.

PokerFace your posts GIVE ME SUCH A GODDAMN HEADACHE.

Poker:

Mith/Iaun scum. Tell me waht you think NOW.

My posts give you a headache? now you know how i felt getting owned by you and your hidden guns and capslocking in OGOM. when chrono died i knew i was fucked and i have you to thank for that. ha ha.

at any rate you got any other questions for me. i can't sleep and don't have to since i don't have work tomorrow so i might as well do something constructive and talk to you here

[PokerFace]

what iam said was:

I still need to iso SpyreX and mith, but I'm pretty sure I want to lynch PokerFace today.

Not

I still need to iso SpyreX and mith, but I'm pretty sure I want to lynch PokerFace today.

Here is why... BIG Giant Case...

I think if he were scum with mith he'd be giving a big case in an attempt to convince 2 townies and get the win at night. Or at least something to suggest who others should vote other than saying what he's voting. Before this he asked questions of mith considering his vote and what looked like mith was trying to counter you. Iamun also defended himself from you earlier. I don't think iamun actually gave a case on me today. If I missed it point it out to me. I think it is spyreX and he had hoped i would get votes from plum and iam on me by now.

[PokerFace]

Why can't Iaun's post in reference to mith be one of "Well mith would never vote a vig as a Vanilla Townie, so mith must be vig" as I way to reinforce a mith fakeclaim route? Or even just to distance from mith by setting up being able to call mithscum? (mith voted and he WASNT the real vig? Mith is scum, PF dies first, etc.)

Iam asked questions of mith. when you reinforce a scum buddies claim you give comments on why you think they are vig or why you think someone else isn't. Scum priority is kill power roles. Before he even asked the questions of mith he voted no lynch and thought he would get the 2 of you to shoot each other at night while he forgot about the roleblocker. Scum iamun wouldn't forget about the roleblocker unless RB was out of shots and i doubt they are and alot of people doubt that. Scum iamun has no benefit from no lynch. Also the no lynch reaction to 2 vigs countering is the exact same reaction i had as town in this game:
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6579
specifically
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?p=920224#920224
Iamun reaction makes perfect sence because i have seen town do it before. Korlash claimed vig and xtoxm countered so me and rikumaru voted no lynch to watch them shoot each other at night

[PokerFace]

so why did scum no kill night 1?

[PokerFace]

I haven't most after game comments as i have been busy so can you address this again if i missed it.

We didn't want players to realize there were TWO vigs, so that a tracked vig had a good chance of being a free lynch for us. There were also chances of counterclaiming which would have been useful to us.

But there was no way you could gaurantee a vig would be tracked. If you had not got lucky that early would you have just never killed as scum? Seems like a rather risky crazed idea to me. How would it be better than just getting 3 kills at night and getting rid of town faster? I don't think it would confusion would still be there and scum could more easily claim vig if tracked and maybe get away with it.

Also I don't think u needed to distance yourself or single out plum the most in your vote count analysis. Was distancing there your intention or did it just work out that way after your math? SpyreX and ooba were already kinda seen as scummy so that didn't effect them. They looked bad regardless and i practically forgot they were in the analysis. Plum wasn't seen as scummy and could have slipped into endgame with little votes on them. only thing i ever thought wierd about them were reasons i voted them back then and fact HH pointed out the wagon on them and it was 100% town driven at the end of the day. I should have gone with that feeling i guess though i doubt i could have convinced everyone onto her with just that weak thought

I wish i had been vig this game or more often on MS. As I am considering permanant retirment i miss the day and night0 killings of helpless scum

[PokerFace]

editing

I haven't

read

most after game comments as i have been busy so can you address this again if i missed it.

We didn't want players to realize there were TWO vigs, so that a tracked vig had a good chance of being a free lynch for us. There were also chances of counterclaiming which would have been useful to us.

But there was no way you could gaurantee a vig would be tracked. If you had not got lucky that early would you have just never killed as scum? Seems like a rather risky crazed idea to me. How would it be better than just getting 3 kills at night and getting rid of town faster? I don't think it would

be better

. Confusion would still be there and scum could more easily claim vig if tracked and maybe get away with it.