Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.

[SensFan]

/win

[SensFan]

Vote: Primate

I don't object to the JackWagon, but I figured I'd offer up someone else I think would be a good choice.

[SensFan]

Vote: Primate

I don't object to the JackWagon, but I figured I'd offer up someone else I think would be a good choice.

Why do you think Primate is a good choice?

Contrary to what he says, his name stuck out as one of the better players on the playerlist.

[SensFan]

I expect everyone to proxyvote as if the votes matter. I make no promises about executing whoever has the most votes, though.

[SensFan]

For what it's worth, I said nothing about not participating, or not giving reasons for my execution attempt(s), if any. I just said I want Town participation, but that I won't bound myself to their decision.

[SensFan]

Vote: Primate

I don't object to the JackWagon, but I figured I'd offer up someone else I think would be a good choice.

Why do you think Primate is a good choice?

Contrary to what he says, his name stuck out as one of the better players on the playerlist.

Is this a criterion for tribune? I would be much more comfortable with making someone I pretty much know is town tribune.

Oh, you're right. I completely forgot that the Mod gave us a handy list of confirmed-Town players to pick our Day1 Tribunes from. Sorry, my bad.

[SensFan]

I will not allow an execution of either claimed Consulmaker to go through today.

[SensFan]

I will not allow an execution of either claimed Consulmaker to go through today.

It's a good thing you aren't a dictator.

I thought of the possibility that both of them are town. I find it highly unlikely. Town doesn't gain anything by fakeclaiming consulmaker.

They both have the power of a Day-ending execution and an absolute power to veto any such execution.

I'm not willing to take a 50-50 shot today, and risk killing a confirmable PR, when we can ensure we get a 100% lynch of the liar on D3. Yes, I have a way to figure out which of them is lying by D3. No, I don't think its best to divulge it until just before we execute someone today.

[SensFan]

Primate thinking its a gambit is indeed par for the course. Unless I'm misremembering, he fakeclaimed CopGuilty D1 of the first Mini Normal I modded, just for reactions.

[SensFan]

I'm not arguing whether it was good or bad play. I'm saying you have more reason than most to give credence to the thought that this might be a really dumb gambit, rather than really bad scumplay.

[SensFan]

Actually, I think I'd rather just explain my thoughts so others can see if I missed something.

Tonight, if Jack is Consulmaker, he makes ribwhich and someone he thinks is Town the Consuls. If ribwhich is Consulmaker, he targets Jack and someone he thinks is Town. D3, we execute whoever of Jack/ribwhich turns up as Consul tomorrow.

[SensFan]

Best-case scenario, the other Consul is Town and we force the Scum to lynch on our terms, or else No Lynch. Even if the other Consul is Scum, he needs to put on an act of not wanting to cede to Jack/rib's demands. And either way, we get a guaranteed Scumlynch D3. I don't know about you, but I'll take a D2 NL to get a D3 Scumlynch.

[SensFan]

So absolute worst-case scenario, we let a Scum publicly lynch whoever he wants D2, in exchange for lynching him D3. Trying to lynch correctly between the two claimed Consulmakers today gives us 50-50 odds.
Worst-case scenario if we wait gives us the same odds as we have trying to decide today.

[SensFan]

Just throwing this out there, but we have a limited supply of Roman Citizens, presumably. We can't afford to let the Scum know who the Consulmaker is, if and when the current one dies.

And Lowell, it is up to me. I say neither of ribwhich/Jack are getting executed today, and so neither of them are getting executed today.

[SensFan]

Why does the voice of the people want to take a 50-50 shot today when we can have a 100% shot D3, without the risk of lynching our confirmable PR?

[SensFan]

chesskid, you're quickly rising the ranks of my Execution List. At first, its not a big deal to vote yourself for Tribune. But at some point, you have to actually start using your head and stop just telling everyone to self-vote, or we're going to end up with no Tribunes.

[SensFan]

Please tell me you're just trolling here, and you're not actually the new BM/zwets/etc...

[SensFan]

I'd argue that a vote for a claimed Scum would be a better use for a vote than the use you're putting yours to. His is accomplishing something; yours is being absolutely wasted.

[SensFan]

So you're choosing to (effectively) not vote at the moment, and you're getting pissy about someone voting for

someone

? Got it.

[SensFan]

ScumTribunal negating a Scumlynch would be just about best-case scenario for us.

[SensFan]

If a Tribunal vetoes an execution, that person is exempt from executions fro the rest of the day, if I understand the rules correctly.

[SensFan]

I'm not a fan of this idea, since it would involve guaranteeing that at least one of the consuls tomorrow is scum. If you're insisting on not allowing either one of us to die today, I would propose this alternative: everyone divides themselves up into two groups. I will guarantee that the consuls tomorrow are one person from each group.

how about dividing everyone in two groups A and B
and you choosing both consuls out of A and Jack choosing both consuls out of B?
that way even if one consul dies, we still know who of you is the real consulmaker.


PS:

FoS: chesskid

, for his nonsense-attack on me.

This is a great idea, and doesn't take until D3 to kill one of the fakes. Makes me think Sens is scum trying to drag out offing one of his teammates.

I'm not such a big fan of this idea, since it leads to the question of how the groups will be split up. Besides, I really don't see the downside to killing one of them for sure on D3, with the bonus of added info from a Scumconsul.

[SensFan]

Unvote; Vote: Jack

I want to see him as a Tribune.

[SensFan]

At this point, I'm not willing to give the least bit of consideration to the idea that both of you are Town, and literally nothing that could happen in the game would change my mind.

[SensFan]

Unvote; Vote: Jack

I want to see him as a Tribune.

lol. why exactly would you want that?

I think he's slightly more likely to be Town than ribwhich. I think he's a rather good player, and I don't know about ribwhich. So I'd like to see him as Tribune, where he is forced to provide definate input one way or the other on the execution targets.

[SensFan]

Unvote; Vote: Jack

I want to see him as a Tribune.

lol. why exactly would you want that?

I think he's slightly more likely to be Town than ribwhich. I think he's a rather good player, and I don't know about ribwhich. So I'd like to see him as Tribune, where he is forced to provide definate input one way or the other on the execution targets.

if you randomly choose someone out of {Jack, ribwich} you have 77,78% chance to have a town tribune. if you choose someone in {Jack, ribwich} that percentage drops to 50%
"slightly more likely" is in no way enough to justify such a tribunal vote.

That assumes my primary goal is to have a town tribunal, or even a scum execution for today. Neither of those assumptions would be correct.

[SensFan]

You heard me.

[SensFan]

I didn't say I don't want to. I said it's not my primary goal today.

[SensFan]

Information to give future executions a higher chance of success.

[SensFan]

Yeah someone call me when Day 2 starts, there's no way we're getting a scum lynch today with these consuls.

They could probably start by looking here.

Let's just say he should hope that either the Tribunes or Nathaneal want to keep him around.

[SensFan]

Personally, I'm not going to give too much credence to someone's beliefs if they're not willing to back it up with a pseudovote. I have no plans of letting Scum get away with leaving absolutely no voting record behind as they push wagons on pro-Town players.

[SensFan]

Oh wow. I didn't realize/forgot that dram was playing.

Dram would also be a good tribunal choice.

[SensFan]

As long as I am in this game, I'll track pseudovotes if the Mod doesn't. I'll be giving more weight to an empty post with a pseudovote than to a post with half a dozen perfect arguments with no pseudovote.

[SensFan]

Information to give future executions a higher chance of success.

lynching scum > whatever information you might get from a town lynch.

Strongly disagree. If it pleases you, look up Martyr Mafia. I suicidebombed Scum N0 in a 10:2 set-up. Town went on to lose, due to not having any informtion or links from the dead Scum.

Dram, you know you love me. Besides, I'm immune to being executed today. I might as well make use of that by doing stuff that I believe work, but that I'd never get away with in a normal game.

[SensFan]

I like me some Porochaz.

I, again, would like to see votes consolidate and I'm all but convinced Primate is the best call at the mo.

I agree that Primate is the best call, but we need to have a clear-cut #2 in votes, or else we don't get a second one.

[SensFan]

I would personally like to see rib or Jack as the second Tribunal, but will change my vote closer to the deadline if needed to ensure a 2nd choice, since I believe I'm alone to want that.

[SensFan]

I don't know. Once CES pops in with a vote count, I'm probably going to move my vote.

[SensFan]

Chamber and Primate have a good-sized lead at this point.

Do not unvote them or vote for anyone else, unless you specifically do not want one or both of them to be Tribunal. With the deadline close, it is your responsibility to check you aren't causing us to lose out on a Tribunal by voting for someone else, or unvoting Primate/chamber.

Hopefully unnecessary, but I don't want any "Oops, I didn't realize I caused a tie in the voting" crap.

[SensFan]

1) Stop throwing around opinions like they're facts
2) Make a decent argument for why ScumTribunal is a terrible thing

[SensFan]

'Scum are forced to take a definite stance one way or the other on multiple potential lynch targets much more if they are a Tribunal than if they are a normal person for the day.'

chesskid, do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

[SensFan]

'It is a good thing for the Town if Scum are forced to take a definite stance on all the potential lynches in a given day.'

Agree or disagree?

[SensFan]

I'm not playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm seriously unclear about why everyone's freaking out about the possibility that a good Scum player will be forced to take a stand on the Execution target(s), even if it may perhaps WIFOMly cost us a Scum execution on Day 1.

[SensFan]

Because he could also banish a town execution
Can we just please not make rabies a tribune? PLEASE?

Fine. In that case he saves us a Town lynch and is still forced to take an absolute stand. Awesome. Go us.

[SensFan]

Then even if we were dumb enough to lynch someone just because a Scum saved them, we traded a Scum lynch for a Town lynch. Go us.

[SensFan]

Sens, you are making no sense.
Having a scum tribune will give scum power. We do not want scum to have power.
The more power is in town's hand, the more town can force the action of players.
Town force players to commit to their reads.
Also, you are totally overrating "committing to reads". If scum-tribune has to choose whether to save or not someone, he/she just play it easy and do what town wants. You cannot accuse someone of doing what the majority of the town wants.

You're damn straight any tribunal or consul is going to get shit from me if they try and excuse any decision by saying it was what the majority wanted.

[SensFan]

Vote: chesskid

[SensFan]

Glrok: Target is an accepted alternative means of indicating execution by the bye, but only if properly spelled (ie. Glrok).

Way to completely remove the shock value of the plan I asked you via AIM and spent 20 minutes formatting in the notepad file on my desktop.

[SensFan]

Also, I strongly suggest that someone inform chesskid of the fact that if he pushes me too far, I

will

submit a Glroking of him, even though the day is an hour and a half old.

[SensFan]

GLROK: CHESSKID3

[SensFan]

If chesskid really dazzles me with his play in the next 40 hours, I'll be around Monday morning to veto the execution. And yes, I did check with the Mod that I can do that.

[SensFan]

If chesskid really dazzles me with his play in the next 40 hours, I'll be around Monday morning to veto the execution. And yes, I did check with the Mod that I can do that.

Read: If CK suddenly stops thinking I'm scum then I'm totally cool with leaving him alive amirite?

Nope. If CK starts actually being productive, rather than emoing and VIing like he has all game, I'm totally cool with leaving him alive for now.

[SensFan]

If you're productive in the next couple days (read: not what you've been doing since I Glroked you), I'll veto it. If you then revert to the anti-Town behaviour I've seen, I'll have no problem submitting another execution later today.

[SensFan]

Whatever. I gave you a chance.

I hereby waive my right to veto this execution.

[SensFan]

" chesskid3 on the podium!" woo!

Btw have I made my point yet why SensFan is a horrible consul?

Repeatedly insulting the person who has the ability to say "It's the VI or no one" probably isn't your best course of action.

[SensFan]

I actually didn't know that. The context of your statement right after jacks lead me to believe otherwise.

Especially since I'm pretty sure most anyone here that's played with me before can assert that I'm not in fact a "stupid townie".

And chesskid, why in God's name should I let you get by with "coasting" today?

[SensFan]

I'm getting closer and closer to the "chesskid or no one" ultimatum, actually.

[SensFan]

Did you read the part where I explained that if chesskid started playing I would veto it?

[SensFan]

Did you read the part where I explained that if chesskid started playing I would veto it?

Irrelevant. You still submitted an execution within two hours of being allowed to do so.

Yes. I submitted an execution after double-checking with the Mod to make sure there was no downside to it, since I could veto it myself. If you have a problem with that, you might as well extend your brush to include Nathan and chamber; both posted without immediately vetoing the execution.

[SensFan]

Are you looking to set a record for "Most times attempted to be Executed within a 24-hour period?" Because I absolutely have no problem putting you up for execution again and again until you actually make an effort to scumhunt in this game.

[SensFan]

scot said I was scummy for nominating you for execution 2 hours into the day. I pointed out that it was a zero-risk solution, and that others clearly had no problem with you being up for execution, and so it is odd he focusses strictly on my part in it.

Also, for old time's sake;

Glrok: chesskid

[SensFan]

True or false: As it stands right now, chesskid is contributing absolutely nothing to the game even if he is Town.

[SensFan]

Mmkay soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Nathanael better not go V/LA for more than 48 hours ever, or someone's going to have to burn a tribune shot on me.

Neither is optimal, but that's what you get when you make scum consul, eh?

OR we could go with option d) chesskid decides to actually start playing and contributing, rather than spouting random crap and OMGUS

[SensFan]

True or false: As it stands right now, chesskid is contributing absolutely nothing to the game even if he is Town.

True. But I'm against policy lynching, and even if you thought he was scum (I don't think you do) it's still a ridiculous move to submit an execution within two hours of being able to do so! Nice deflection, by the way.

Hey ever, SensFan is clearly scummy as hell, but we can't do anything about it today, pick battles that can be won.

I'm fully aware there is zero chance Sens dies today. However, I don't think that means I should refrain from pressuring him.

I don't believe it's a deflection. I happen to be strongly in favour of policy lynches, and this one seems to be an even better policy than the zwets ones of old. chesskid has admitted to being a "scummy VI" and hasn't shown anything to the contrary, so I don't see how I at least will ever be able to have a read on him. Therefore, coupled with his bragging about how he plans to coast today, and his continued attempts to egg me on, I absolutely want him executed today. Besides, do you disagree that it would have been very telling and informative if one of the Tribunals had immediately vetoed him?
As for pressuring me, feel free. I have nothing against it, and it won't affect my decision-making for today. You should know that I've already decided to play D1 in a way that I'm fully aware I would never get away with if I wasn't a Consul, though. I've been given immunity from lynching today, and I plan to fully abuse it to help me make a decision on who I want executed. To quote Tom from Survivor: "Tonight we make our move. Tomorrow we make our apologies."

I'd also loveeeeeeeee to see where the "0 scum hunting" bullshit comes from

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... lect=14172

[SensFan]

Scummy VI was an obvious joke, you fucking moron.[goes to check rules about personal attacks][nothing there, good].

I've seen nothing in your numerous posts that show anything to the contrary. I've seen some minor spam sprinkled with a heavy dose of OMGUS and a side of ad hominem, with some Appeal to Emotion for dessert.

[SensFan]

Humour me for a moment. Where do you see any OMGUS in my iso? How about ad hominem? Or Appeal to Emotion? Or spam, for that matter?

[SensFan]

Note how several others have pointed out that I'm being scummy/stupid/etc. Notice how I haven't executed them twice within about 14 hours.

[SensFan]

You keep using that word. I am not sure it means what you think it means.

[SensFan]

I have a feeling debating about this won't be too productive, so I'll just address one part of it for now. If you want me to respond to the rest, let me know.

Its the fact that you wanted to execute him the first opportunity you had. I agree with you that it would have been very telling had one of the tribunals vetoed him immediately. However, I do not think that was your intention.

I think you'll find that I was able to answer Nathan's question immedately about if I could veto the execution. What reason would I have for having asked the Mod beforehand, if not that I wanted to make sure I could veto the chesskid execution? And if so, that suggests I was not, in fact, looking to get a quick execution.

[SensFan]

Yes. I submitted an execution after double-checking with the Mod to make sure there was no downside to it, since I could veto it myself. If you have a problem with that, you might as well extend your brush to include Nathan and chamber; both posted without immediately vetoing the execution.

What about this do you really mean?

Also, for old time's sake;

Glrok: chesskid

stop it.

VETO: chesskid's execution

.

I'm getting closer and closer to the "chesskid or no one" ultimatum, actually.

STOP THIS CRAP!
while I can understand the early pressuring by execution-threat this is going way to far.

1) I mean that I only submitted the execution after checking I could veto it

2) I'll stop trying to execute him if and when he stops being a complete useless dumbass

3) Again, if he doesn't show he's capable of actually playing Mafia, I will do everything I can to have him executed on D1. Up to and including an ultimatum.

[SensFan]

More importantly, what makes you think I'm Scum? The fact I'm actually interested in lynching the absolute useless dumbass making such fantastic posts as "oh god a talking owl"?

[SensFan]

Parama has a clean slate from me, for what its worth.

[SensFan]

Sens, even though it's not as relevant any more, I would still like a response to post #276.

I might be alone in this, but I would much prefer if the executions never work that way again. The way I see it, other than extreme cases, there shouldn't ever be a time when the veto power needs to actually be used. I think it should be made clear from all tribunals and consuls on whether or not they are fine with an execution, or else the day could end horribly. Whether Sens was trying to end the day early or not, there's a good chance it could have if Nathaniel happened to not get a chance to check this soon enough.

Jack, quit ignoring me.

You're trying to not respond to my offer of evens or odds so that tomorrow you can say the reason the consuls didn't get picked correctly is because you never agreed to the plan. It's not going to work. Pick one soon or I'll pick for you.

Re: 276
I still would have wanted Jack as a Tribunal.

Re: Executions
Tough shit. As long as I'm a Consul, I won't ask permission to execute someone, nor will I be telling anyone if I plan on vetoing an execution until I decide to Veto or NotVeto an execution that has been placed. I'm not going to be hiding behind the protection of the majority, and I won't be letting any of the other people in power today do so either. When you play a game of Mafia, you are expected to be checking the thread every 48 hours as a bare minimum, so unless someone announces V/LA ahead of time (in which case I likely won't submit an execution during that time), if anyone chooses not to use their Veto, I will assume that they saw the execution posted and chose not to use it; I won't be accepting "Oops I didn't check the thread for 2 days".

[SensFan]

SensFan, why do you think that Jack is more likely town than ribwich?

At the time, I didn't. I just knew Jack was a fairly good player, and had no read or meta on rib. Now, I realize that rib is most definatively either an idiot or Scum, since he seems to want no one to even think of the E-word without first asking permission from everyone else. Likely on the idiot side of that line, since he also hasn't read enough of the thread to realize that I was not trying to have chesskid executed the first time.

[SensFan]

I think you'll find that I was able to answer Nathan's question immedately about if I could veto the execution. What reason would I have for having asked the Mod beforehand, if not that I wanted to make sure I could veto the chesskid execution? And if so, that suggests I was not, in fact, looking to get a quick execution.

Except this is all mute because you waived your right to veto.

By the time I waived my right to veto, chamber and Nathan had both shown up and shown up, removing the chance that everyone here seems to think they would randomly not show up for 48 hours. And frankly, by that point, chesskid had point-blank made a mockery of me when I asked him to participate in some tiny way. So by the time I waived my right to veto, I would have been thrilled if the Day had ended on the spot. The longer this day went on, the more the chance would be that chesskid would manage to survive. And I would rather have a no-discussion D1 chesskid lynch than an information-loaded nonchesskid-lynch. I'd want chesskid lynched if he was ModConfirmed.

[SensFan]

Now, I realize that rib is most definatively either an idiot or Scum, since he seems to want no one to even think of the E-word without first asking permission from everyone else. Likely on the idiot side of that line, since he also hasn't read enough of the thread to realize that I was not trying to have chesskid executed the first time.

Trying to start an execution at the very start of the day that's going to get vetoed anyway can only accomplish two things:

A: Waste one of the tribunal's vetoes
B: Cause an accidental quicklynch

And I understand that you were at least making it look like you didn't actually want chesskid executed, but that's part of my point. If you don't want somebody executed, don't use your power to execute them. All you're doing is abusing your power to try to get reactions from people, but it's going to cause more harm than good.

C: Get the message across to someone that they need to smarten up
D: Get reactions from everyone
etc...

Also, there's no such thing as an accidental quicklynch. If chesskid had been lynched, it would have been because each one of {Sens, chamber, Primate, Nathan} wanted him lynched.

[SensFan]

I started counting the number of people I wish I could execute. I ran out of fingers on my right hand.

[SensFan]

Nathanael and the Tribunes can do what they want, of course, but I will be giving slightly less credence to vote from people who throw them around like crazy than those who only vote a couple people.

Vote: rib; Vote: Kat

[SensFan]

What happened to "I will not allow the execution of Jack or ribwich"?

Partly what Parama said. Partly I realized that you've been much more scummy than Jack.
Mostly that I don't think its in the Town's best interests for you to continue making the decisions on who is Consul, if you happen to be Consulmaker.

[SensFan]

Probably won't be agreeing to a Reck lynch today.

[SensFan]

What happened to "I will not allow the execution of Jack or ribwich"?

Partly what Parama said. Partly I realized that you've been much more scummy than Jack.
Mostly that I don't think its in the Town's best interests for you to continue making the decisions on who is Consul, if you happen to be Consulmaker.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of this pseudo vote thing to get an idea of who everyone wants executed? What's the point of having a vote on someone that you don't actually want executed today?

I would ask you to explain how I'm scummier than Jack, but it really doesn't even matter. It'll be obvious by tomorrow that I'm the real consulmaker and that he's lying scum.

And the fact that you're more interested in getting rid of the consulmaker instead of scum just because I don't want consuls that will abuse their power makes me all the more confident in my decision to never let you be consul again.

First of all, you're right. I wouldn't vote you if I wasn't comfortable in having you executed.

Second of all, stop talking about yourself like you're confirmed Consulmaker. There's a higher chance you're Scum than anyone else other than Jack. And if we're going to gamble, it's going to be on you. If we mess up and hit JackTown, we lost a very good consulmaker. If we mess up and hit ribTown, we gain a competent consulmaker.

[SensFan]

I'm not talking like I'm confirmed consulmaker. I'm talking like someone that's going to be confirmed tomorrow when the consuls get chosen the way I said they would. Taking the gamble on Jack or me would be the worst move you could make. There is absolutely no reason to want to execute either of us when tomorrow it will be confirmed which of us is lying.

You do realize that as soon as you (even if you're telling the truth) get executed, another confirmed Town pops up, right?

[SensFan]

I will not allow an execution of either claimed Consulmaker to go through today.

I'm not willing to take a 50-50 shot today, and risk killing a confirmable PR, when we can ensure we get a 100% lynch of the liar on D3. Yes, I have a way to figure out which of them is lying by D3. No, I don't think its best to divulge it until just before we execute someone today.

Vote: rib; Vote: Kat

Second of all, stop talking about yourself like you're confirmed Consulmaker. There's a higher chance you're Scum than anyone else other than Jack. And if we're going to gamble, it's going to be on you. If we mess up and hit JackTown, we lost a very good consulmaker. If we mess up and hit ribTown, we gain a competent consulmaker.

You do realize that as soon as you (even if you're telling the truth) get executed, another confirmed Town pops up, right?

someone tell me how this is not a blatant contradiction.
Sens, what exactly changed?
How can you be so sure ribwich is the right choice over Jack (whom you even wanted as consul)?

Damn, why is my top scumread exactly the one we can't lynch today?

It's absolutely a contradiction.
I've explained about 5 times what has changed. Try reading my posts for a change.
I'm not sure ribwhich is the right choice over Jack. I'm sure consulmakerOther is a much better choice than consulmakerRib.

You have the wrong cause-effect direction there. It's precisely because I'm lynchproof that I'm acting unPC, because what matters today is making the best decision to help us win; not coming out of this looking good.

[SensFan]

Glrok: Kat

[SensFan]

Reading her in iso is reason enough.

[SensFan]

Oops, wrong tags...

Mod, what happens if an execution attempt is made when there's less than 48 hours for the deadline?

It's in the rules. Unless everyone who can veto it explicity waives their right to do so before the deadline, there is no lynch.

[SensFan]

VETO: KATSUKI's EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

a little time-gain.

Your ego just has to let me accomplish nothing today, doesn't it?

[SensFan]

I frankly don't give a damn about their reasons. Reasons are nothing but a way to hedge their bets. I just want a letter.

[SensFan]

Evens/Odds, I beleive.

[SensFan]

I like it. I like it especially because one person arbitrarily chose a way to split the lists. More info for us later.

[SensFan]

VETO: KATSUKI'S EXECUTION

EXECUTE: KATSUKI

I want to give replacements a little more time.
I am however willing to lynch Katsuki later.

Keep doing that, and I will force a No Lynch. This is getting fucking retarded.

[SensFan]

Keep doing that, and I will force a No Lynch. This is getting fucking retarded.

The comments like these are just annoying. There's nothing wrong with what Nathanael is doing. Why would you want the day to end early before replacements get a chance to contribute to the game? Plus, Jack still hasn't confirmed if he's going to use the plan. He probably won't, but let's not give him a chance to go "you guys ended the day before I could say I wasn't going to use that to pick consuls."

If Nathanael vetos this execution again, I'm probably going to refuse to let Kat get lynched today.

[SensFan]

Absolutely not. A Consulmaker should claim if an execution is declared on him or her; absolutely not before. It is a massive liability to the Town if the Scum know who the Consulmaker is.

[SensFan]

So we're canceling the whole consul choice plan and doing it randomly? Weird.

Are you an idiot? There's no random involved, you're picking from the list of people that was put up over the weekend.

inHim: Probably rib.

[SensFan]

Just saying, Kat joined another Large Theme after replacing out of this one. The slot is so obvScum.

[SensFan]

Group A - Jack has to select consuls from these

1. chamber
2. Feysal (replacing Rabies)
3. SpyreX
4. Powerrox93
6. Mert
9. Primate
11. xRECKONERx

Group B - ribwich has to select consuls from these

12. Porochaz
13. dramonic
14. horrordude0215
15. Parama (replacing chesskid3)
16. inHimshallibe
17. scotmany12
19. Lowell

Guess what, Jack?

[SensFan]

Vote: Primate

[SensFan]

It really doesn't matter today, since I'm pretty sure Jack is the lynch regardless, but I think we should think about whether we want a claimed Consulmaker as Tribune. Seems like that's putting an awful lot of power in one person's hands to dictate the lynch.

[SensFan]

I still don't think we want someone deciding who the consuls are and having veto power. There's no one in this game who I trust to have that massive amount of control over our lynches.

[SensFan]

Besides, how much control would ribwich actually have? He cannot dictate who the Consuls should execute, he can only choose the Consuls themselves. His opinion may have more weight due to his confirmed town status, but that is all the influence he has. I don't think this is reason enough not to choose him.

He has a tremendous amount of control. If he finds me scummy, he can pick two Consuls who both find me scummy as well, for instance. I think it's a massive mistake to let someone pick the Consuls and also have veto power.

[SensFan]

I must say, I'm stunned at the choices of consuls today.

[SensFan]

Nathaneal, they have to wait a week anyways.
And it doesn't matter what the answer to your modquestion is; Jack is getting executed today.

[SensFan]

Confirmation doesn't make you automatically smarter and more braver. Hell, if anything, it enables the sheeps too much.

Does rib's opinions hold more weight because we KNOW they're not scum motivated? Sure.
Does that mean I trust him as judge, jury and executioner? Hells to the no

Cue to the ef to the tee.

[SensFan]

Way to much wifom from reck here.

I understand why people don't want rib as a tribune. I still think its beneficial to have someone we know has the town's best interest at heart as a tribune.

That's a strawman.

I'm not saying I don't want a confirmed Town Tribune. I'm saying I don't want anyone, confirmed or not, to be deciding on who has the power of Execution

and the power to veto said Execution.

One wrong read on his part could be gg.

[SensFan]

Jack, shut up. You're Scum. And on the slight offchance that you're Town stupid enough to pick two people off ribwhich's list, then your death guarantees us a Scum tomorrow.

[SensFan]

Execute Jack.
If Scum, profit.
If Consulmaker, execute ribwich tomorrow.
If nonConsulmaker Town, damn him to hell and back.

[SensFan]

SensFan: Did you think powerrox was going to flip scum? If not, why didn't you veto the execution?

I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

[SensFan]

And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.

I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.

I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

Was this a specific to the situation idea that you can share, or do you need to keep it secret since its general enough that it could be used again later in the game?

It's a strategy that would allow any Consulmaker an extreme amount of leverage to say "My way or the highway." I can share it if you want, but I won't without more people asking, since it's dangerous in the wrong hands.

[SensFan]

scot, are you willing to waive your veto right?

[SensFan]

Jesus Christ, you're a fucking dumbass.
And to the rest of you, this is

exactly

why we don't give anyone the power to decide on the Consuls, then veto their decision.

[SensFan]

Are you actually saying you think there's a flip that would give even a fraction of the information a Jack flip would? Did you not read his long post that is a goldmine of information if we have the information he is Town? More importantly, we are going to have to lynch Jack at some point. Why in the name of Bahamut would we want to use a D3 or later lynch on someone we agree on D2 needs to be lynched?

You're in the most powerful Town position in the game. It's more than time that you start using your head and thinking. If you weren't prepared for a Jack lynch yet, you should at least have gotten one of our Consuls to do it; now we can't lynch Jack at all today.

[SensFan]

Are you actually saying you think there's a flip that would give even a fraction of the information a Jack flip would? Did you not read his long post that is a goldmine of information if we have the information he is Town? More importantly, we are going to have to lynch Jack at some point. Why in the name of Bahamut would we want to use a D3 or later lynch on someone we agree on D2 needs to be lynched?

Even with a jack-townflip you have to use your judgement about what reactions were scummy. And you can use your judgement now and lynch those people.

If you think there's any chance I will even consider the chance you might be Town, unless your flip says you are, you are very sadly mistaken.

[SensFan]

Hiya, still here.

Catching up still, but 724 in some sick way makes sense to me. Jack was and is the obvious consensus favorite. He will continue to be, probably. I don't see the harm in giving him another day. Whining about it, on its face, seems a little odd to me. If you're sure he's scum surely amid those convinctions you stumbled on something else you believe as well. I've seen him fakeclaim before as town, surely it's at least possible as town here.

You seem to be in agreement that he will be lynched at some point. In that case, why oh why would we want to trade our D2 lynch for our day D3 lynch, when we will obviously have a better chance of making an informed decision the later in the game it is?

[SensFan]

If I ever get elected consul, you're going down ASAP

The more people say stuff like this, the more control over this game we hand over to ribwhich.

[SensFan]

I don't think I see a single thing you wrote in either of those posts that I agree with.

[SensFan]

Not that it matters as much now since he's already dead, but reck was who I was referring to. I'm not going to bother now with the whole case, but the main idea was that he looks scummy regardless of whether Jack is town or scum.

I'm still thinking there's a good chance Jack is actually town. It's obvious he had the whole thing planned from the beginning for this being about trapping people that had inside knowledge of knowing both claimed consulmakers are town. It wasn't a last plan of defense, because now it actually makes sense why he did it in the first place. So what it comes down to is was it really a town plan to gain information, or was it a scum gambit to try to stay alive? It just makes more sense to me for this to be a town move, because there was a slim chance of it working if he was scum, while there was a lot to gain if he was town.

That's a steaming pile of dung. There's no reason whatsoever to assume he's not Scum; just like if I claimed Cop in a C9 set-up, you countered me, I survived the day, and then the next day I said it was all for reactions and gave a bunch of posts calling a bunch of people Scum.

[SensFan]

If anyone wants to claim the kill, now would be a good time to do so.

[SensFan]

You'd be a lot more likely to understand my posts if you read them, Nathanael. I wasn't attacking chesskid on the basis I thought he was particularily likely to be Scum.

[SensFan]

I vetoed chesskid, because SensFan's attack on him was just nonsense. There was absolutely no reason for him to be scum at that point[/quote

and where exactly did I say that you believed chesskid to be scum?

Now, perhaps I'm crazy (hint: I'm not), but you're contradicting yourself.

You were asked about the flip-flop of your stance as it pertains to chesskid/parama, and instead of saying the obvious (something like 'I changed my mind on chesskid' or 'I just wanted to give people more time to discuss, so I veto'd Sens' Glroking even though I was suspicious of chesskid') you decided to attack me instead by saying my attack was nonsense because there was no reason for me to think chesskid was Scum. Minor red flag is raised with that explanation, because it stinks of trying to deflect the pressure from chesskid to me.
Then I point out that my attempted execution of chesskid wasn't based at all on me thinking he was Scum. Your immediate reaction is fairly predictable, you recalled that I was attempting a 'policy lynch' on chesskid, and so immediately jumped to try and debunk my criticism of you by asking me where you said you thought I thought chesskid was Scum. Unfortunately, you seem to have forgotten your claimed reasons for vetoing the chesskid execution that you gave a handful of posts ago.

[SensFan]

Saying "I veto'd the execution because there was no reason for him to be scum" makes absolutely no fucking sense if you claim you knew he was put up for execution for reasons other than being likely Scum.

[SensFan]

Also, Magua's stance on Nathaneal is either scummy or extremely misguided. "You didn't want my predecessors lynched" is a terrible reason for not wanting to lynch someone.

[SensFan]

Also, Magua's stance on Nathaneal is either scummy or extremely misguided. "You didn't want my predecessors lynched" is a terrible reason for not wanting to lynch someone.

Do you think Nathanael and I are scum partners?

If you do not, what rationale would scum-Nathanael have for delaying the execution of town-Katsuki three times?

1) You might be; I don't have a read on you yet
2a) It makes him look good if/when Kat flips Town
2b) He gets to keep a useless lurker around instead of someone posting
2c) He gets to delay the day until close to deadline, leaving very little time for discussion when after he swapped over to another execution

[SensFan]

If you do not, what rationale would scum-Nathanael have for delaying the execution of town-Katsuki three times?

1) You might be; I don't have a read on you yet
2a) It makes him look good if/when Kat flips Town
2b) He gets to keep a useless lurker around instead of someone posting
2c) He gets to delay the day until close to deadline, leaving very little time for discussion when after he swapped over to another execution

#2a is false, as he was already being called scum for his actions
#2b is worth thinking about, but seems mitigated by the fact that he did, in fact, end up executing a useless lurker.
#2c is false, as in it didn't happen. Maybe could've happened, sure, but that's getting kind of tenuous.

Now, would both of you (that is, SensFan and scotmany) mind voting for tribune?

I don't understand your rebuttal to 2a. Clearly if Kat flips Town in the future, Nat will 'look good' for 'being willing to go against the Town's wishes to save a Town'.
And I'm pretty sure 2c is exactly what happened. He said he was just delaying the Kat execution a couple times, then all of a sudden 3 days before deadline or so was like 'LOL JK. Execute Power instead of Kat.' That's going off of memory, as my grandma's neighbour's internet that I'm current mooching is pretty slow, so I'm not going back to check.

[SensFan]

At the moment, I don't have any strong opinions on who should be Tribune. Again, shitty internet makes it hard to reread people.

[SensFan]

Vote: Parama

, I guess.

[SensFan]

I still don't get why you would want anyone to be both Consulmaker and Tribune, let alone someone who veto'd the Jack execution yesterday.

[SensFan]

I suggest you go back and re-read the Sens/chess parts of D1, Magua. You might learn a lesson from his behaviour: don't go out of your way to antagonise the Consul for no reason.

[SensFan]

a, b, d, e are NOT good reasons. Just because someone is Town does not mean I feel like gambling the game on them not having a single false townread. As for wanting to lynch Jack, it's based on the fact he agreed to be lynched over and over and over if he got busted. And guess what? He got busted. And when he got busted, his first try was a terrible lie as opposed to coming clean.

Seriously, I don't get it. Why the hell are you people not willing to see him hang? His lie dominated D1, added absolutely nothing to anything until he's confirmed Town, and forced the Consulmaker to pick D2 Consuls from a randomized list of half the people. What in the name of Bahamut has he done to make people think he shouldn't be lynched?

[SensFan]

I have the solution: Flip a coin! Heads, Magua swings; Tails, Jack.

Alternatively, Spy, answer me this. Imagine it's LyLo a few days from now, and you're the Dictator. Jack is still alive. Are you really telling me there's any chance in the world Jack doesn't get lynched? I mean, seriously, there's no way in hell ScumJack can be given any chance to possibly win the game for his side. I'd also point out that all of his claimed 'gains' from his supposed dumbass gambit revolve around the fact that he's lying Town; why oh why are we not seeing if it's worth our time to look at his suspects?

[SensFan]

Execute: Jack

I wanna kill Reeeeeeeeeeck ;_;

Link.

[SensFan]

You don't want ribwich a tribune because even though he's confirmed, he might have a false townread. Instead, you'll trust that *your* townread is accurate, which, of course, it might not be, and then that your townread's townread is accurate, and you think that this is better? Because it doesn't seem so to me.

Please try again.

It's clear as day why there's a vast difference in the importance of my townreads (as someone voting for a Tribune), and the importance of the townreads of someone who picks the Consuls and also has Power of Veto.

---

I'll respond to the rest of your post sometime tomorrow, if I feel like it. Probably not; most of it could be solved if you started thinking. Such as why its not a good idea to purposefully antagonize a Consul...

[SensFan]

Coming back to the ribwich Tribune&Consulmaker issue:
Assume ribwich get's tribune power. He will either:
a) Work against the general town will or (value: X for town)
b) follow the town will (value: Y for town)
he will however, since he is town, do the one which is best. we therefore get V=max{X,Y}.

WRONG. Town != Right.

[SensFan]

You're a bigger idiot than I thought if you're sincerely making the argument that Jack didn't hurt the Town by lying for over a day about being Consulmaker.

[SensFan]

If I ignore everything he has said that has to do with the gambit, then we're dealing with someone who hasn't posted at all in a game on page36 and D3.

[SensFan]

So wait. Ignore the ridiculously scummy thing he did, but evaluate the slightly pro-town things he's done as a direct result of the ridiculously scummy thing?

[SensFan]

THE FAKECLAIM IS NOT SCUMMY. IT IS

NULL

!
SCUMMY=scum is more likely to do it.
WHY WOULD SCUM BE MORE LIKELY TO FAKECLAIM A REPLACEABLE POWERROLE?
scum gets absolutely NOTHING out of it. => scum has no more incentive to do it than town => not a scumtell
we do not want scum to get a free pass out of it either => not a towntell either => we treat it as NULL!

Seriously, I don't get it. Why the hell are you people not willing to see him hang? His lie dominated D1, added absolutely nothing to anything until he's confirmed Town, and forced the Consulmaker to pick D2 Consuls from a randomized list of half the people. What in the name of Bahamut has he done to make people think he shouldn't be lynched?

---

besides: ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT DRAMONIC! do you think that dramonic post was a double bus?

I don't know, and I don't really care. I don't care if 4 people claim to be a guaranteedSane Cop with an Innocent on Jack. He needs to hang.

[SensFan]

If there's enough demand by people other than Nathaneal for me to keep pointing out why he's as wrong as is possible to be, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll let the game move on, since I'm pretty sure most people can see that his supposed stance on Jack is completely asinine.

[SensFan]

"There's a scumtell in your last post. If you can find it, I won't count it against you."
"Ignore the super scummy thing he did; you should just look at the slightly townie things he did to try and explain the super scummy thing."

These goldmines and more, brought to you by Nathaneal.

[SensFan]

Fonz is making a lot of sense; gives me good vibes.

[SensFan]

Yes, I have a way to figure out which of them is lying by D3. No, I don't think its best to divulge it until just before we execute someone today.

Sens, do you mind explaining your plan? Also, could you please tell why it wasn't a good idea to divulge it? and why did you forget about this later, not following through with it?

That was explained ages and ages ago. Pay some attention, please. Even a semblance of reading my posts would be nice.

Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance.

I just found this too, following TF's post. would you mind stating what that "great idea" was?

Not a goddamn chance. Again, if you pretended to read my posts it would help your credibility. If you are reading my posts, you shouldn't be trying to get me to explain this when it's already been agreed to that there's no benefit to telling every future Consul 'This is how you make sure you get to execute anyone you want'.

[SensFan]

I can support either, though if I had to pick it would be Fonz. Lemme go check the current vote count; I want to try and get 2 people above rib.

[SensFan]

Vote: Fonz

.

[SensFan]

Would you look at that. Looks like chesskid may actually have been right about the fact that one of the D1 Consuls was Scum.

If you're actually somehow Town, Nathaneal, then please step away from this game for the rest of today. Tomorrow, take a deep breath and look at your posts anew. You'll see that you're not making any sense re: Jack, and you're asking me for things that I either explained weeks ago, or else explained why there's no way in hell I'm going to expand.

Pre-post: Just saw Nathan's last post. All the above applies even more. Especially when Fonz says "I want Jack lynched, if he wasn't here it would be Magnus/Sens", and Nathan's response is to imply that Fonz called me "the most scummy player around".

[SensFan]

Nathaneal is on the ribwuch wagon twice, BBM.

I prefer Fonz to Parama, but Parama to rib. FWIW.

[SensFan]

Is it just me, or does Nathan say something like "this is probably the worst post in the whole game. I am really having a hard time believing you could be town. I don't care how townish your predecessor was, you are going back to scummy after this" whenever anyone calls him Scum?

Seriously. I'm pretty sure his scumlist is currently: Sens/scot/Parama/Fonz

[SensFan]

Is it just me, or does Nathan say something like "this is probably the worst post in the whole game. I am really having a hard time believing you could be town. I don't care how townish your predecessor was, you are going back to scummy after this" whenever anyone calls him Scum?

Seriously. I'm pretty sure his scumlist is currently: Sens/scot/Parama/Fonz

lol. no. if YOU had read my posts. you would see this (link):

ribwich

>>

The Fonz = Jack = primate

>

Feysal = Magua

>

scotmany

>

Leon Belmont = SpyreX = Parama

>

Lowell

>

Porochaz = SensFan

after I said Parama goes back to scum, this means

porochaz,SensFan,Lowell,Parama are my top suspects

after your accusations for "not reading", this gets you further scumpoints for hypocrisy.

also, I'd like to point out that it was you who attacked me AFTER I had been calling you scum (almost) the whole game, not the other way round. this get's you more hypocrisy points. (as if you hadn't enough already)

I have been reading your posts. So throroughly, in fact, that I remembered this scumlist from less than 48 hours ago:

Scum

scotmany12 (-) = Lowell () > SensFan (-)

[...] -...getting scummier;

So you'll forgive me for thinking that the logical continuation to you thinking scot was "Scum and getting scummier" 48 hours ago is that you still think he's probably Scum.

As for OMGUS, I'm not talking about me; we've suspected eachother. But Parama was neutral on your list, and then you quoted a post where he called you Scum and said he's been upgraded to your Scum list. You can claim I've been OMGUSing everyone as much as you want; its painfully obvious from my stances on scot and Fonz, to give but two examples, that I'm perfectly capable of separating the subjective from the objective in my reads.

[SensFan]

Yo Consuls, if you want to Glrok Jack even faster than I Glrok'd chesskid on D1, I promise I won't feel sad that you upstaged me.

[SensFan]

Seeing a Nath execution would be like losing in overtime in the Gold medal game. I'd be really sad, and it would be a fairly hefty emotional letdown. But then the next morning, I'd realize I won the Olympic Silver medal, and I'd be happy and proud of what I accomplished.

(Yes, I'm watching Canada play international hockey right now.)

[SensFan]

Fonz, would you mind summing up in a nutshell why I make #3 on your list? I know you weren't a fan at all of my D1 play, and there's nothing I can possibly say to explain that, but is there anything more recent that you could point to? I know you said somewhere that I started off scummy but have looked better recently; so should I assume that it's still just leftovers from D1 that have me there?

Apologies if I missed you posting a summary; you've posted a ton sicne you replaced in and I may have overlooked it.

[SensFan]

Incidentally, can you point to where you got your 'Sens is a LAL believer' meta from? Not that I doubt you, I just don't remember ever being particularily stronly in favour of it as a strict policy.

[SensFan]

LACM?

[SensFan]

I certainly don't have that a policy, and I'm 95% sure I've never advocated for it in any particular game, either. I'm in the "Millers need to claim D1" camp.

[SensFan]

I'm pretty sure someone made that case in Harry Potter Mafia, which I modded, and was linked by RC in his current Miller thread.

[SensFan]

At the very least, Nat, there's the chance we lose without ever flipping a non-Phyrric Scum, even if there is one.

[SensFan]

Also, I know you dismissed this argument earlier, but if we even get into a potential LyLo, and Jack is still alive, there's literally nothing anyone could say that would stop me from executing Jack, if I were a Consul/Dictator. There's no one else in the game I can say that about, and that's an excellent reason for him being executed ASAP, since I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[SensFan]

I stand corrected. FWIW, I haven't been faced with a Miller claim since that game, and had forgotten about that game because I replaced out on page 2.

To be honest, by reaction upon reading the quote out of context here was "That's insane." Then I read the first couple pages of the game, and found myself agreeing with pretty much everything I said. *shrugs*

[SensFan]

If there's 2 scumgroups, I think Jack is non-Pyrrhic.
If there's only 1 scumgroup, I think Jack is Scum with Reck and Dram.

So you can add me to that list. Fonz and Spy, too, I think.

[SensFan]

You do have a point though that dramonic's decision to execute first Jack and then reckoner does not preclude all three being scum, since dramonic really had no choice but to execute one of them. What I think is against them being scum together is the fact that they must have known Jack would not make it to endgame, and yet dramonic and reckoner continued to fight eagerly, making it inevitable they would have to bus each other. I would not be setting up a bus if I knew another of my teammates was about to be exposed.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that they were in fact distancing against each other to such unbelievable lengths as to not be made Consul.

[SensFan]

I think Scum tend to be much more bushappy than you seem to think, Nath. Not that it's optimal play, but Scum tend to busbusbus. I'd also tend to think that you need to remove Dram/Reck's bussing of each other from the equation and evaluate other potential buddies on their own, due to the bizarre reck-dram meta.

As far as I remember from way back, that's Lowell's meta- town or scum.

[SensFan]

Unless you can give a non-ongoing game, you really have no meta case at all on Katsuki, and so I'm going to assume it's all useless garbage.

[SensFan]

Oh right. I completely forgot that I need to think every single lurker is of the same alignment, regardless of the fact no one has any meta evidence for one, while I have several years' worth of meta that tells me lurking is a null tell for Lowell. Or the fact that Katsuki lied in the thread repeatedly. Or the fact that Katsuki replaced out for no apparent reason when the water got hot.

It's also worth noting that I never defended Lowell; I just said the fact he's lurking doesn't make him more likely to be Scum than if he wasn't lurking - something I cannot say about Kat.

[SensFan]

Fonz, I honestly don't have a read on Feysal. I will say that I don't think he can genuinely believe that "One ongoing game where Kat was one third of a hydra that also involved DGB" constitutes an even halfway-decent meta read.

[SensFan]

As far as I remember from way back, that's Lowell's meta- town or scum.

Could you show a few examples of this? After seeing that Feysal's meta on Kat was just one game, I have to be a little more skeptical about this.

Sure thing. I'll go digging through my old games.

[SensFan]

Mafia 82: International
Lowell was in the game from Aug08-Mar09, about 7 months, and posted 84 times. 84/7=12 posts a month, but read him in iso and there's a bunch of "Catching up", "Sorry, lost access for a while" posts. As well, when he posts content, it often comes in bunches of 2-4 posts in one sitting, which makes the postcount higher than it might otherwise be.

Mafia 84: Crime in Cressario
From Sept08-Nov08, a two-month span, he posts 26 times (13 per month). Again, lots of "Catching up" posts, some 'multiple post' sessions, and very few posts of more than a line or two.

Mafia 91: Hell Aboard the Purple Flower
Mar09-May09, a 5-week span where he posted 48 times. Obviously didn't lurk in this game, though I count 5 posts where he had more than 2 lines, one of which was in Twilight after his lynch.

[SensFan]

That's actually a surprisingly good point, Fonz. I hadn't noticed that.

[SensFan]

Sens, why did you want somebody to claim the dramonic kill?

In case we later find out it was an SK or second scumteam.

[SensFan]

If a Vig wants to claim, then I'm fine with that; at this point I don't think having a Vig out in the open is a huge detriment.

Kat, without a doubt.

[SensFan]

WILD THIRD OPTION:
Jack, about a day and a half ago.

[SensFan]

Just an FYI, Feysal, my play is going to be significantly different in Minis and Larges. My play is also going to be significantly different in a game with severe mechanics change, like this one.

[SensFan]

Step 1) Spyrex waivewaivewaive
Step 2) Primate waivewaivewaive
Step 3) Profit

[SensFan]

It was really amusing how terrible that post, was Magua. I don't know whats worse: the fact that PBPAs are designed solely to allow you to prove whatever you want about somebody, or that several of the things you're accusing me of doing "for town points" are things several people disagreed heavily with.

[SensFan]

Especially when 'lining up lynches' is defined as saying 'We have 2 people claiming a role we know we only have one of. So lynch one, and if he flips Town, lynch the other.'

[SensFan]

WOO MASSIVE OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTES.

[SensFan]

Can I just point out that I find it incredibly humurous that I'm being called Scum for not playing as I normally do as Town (logical, rational play), while others are admitting they spent D1 doing their best to antagonize me into making emotional, irrational plays that would make me look scummy?

[SensFan]

Also, Jack's doing a whole lotta stuff that's not posting in the game where he's 2 posts away from being executed.

[SensFan]

Vote: SpyreX

. This could (and will) also go to scot as well, if that puts two people above rib.

[SensFan]

Eh. Not sure that's a huge of a towntell as you're implying.

[SensFan]

Okay, I'll change my argument. Do scum want town to have that power? Nope.

(a) Fonz wasn't getting executed yesterday
(b) Fonz isn't dead; Freudian Slip?

[SensFan]

How is you basing your argument on an alive player being Town 'nitpicking on sentence structure'? Also, nice contradiction. First you claim that you gave someone else Tribunal power, which you wouldn't do as Scum. You even went out of your way to point out that the biggest benefit of being a Tribunal is lynch immunity. Now you're saying everyone should have taken for granted as of the post you made yesterday that Fonz was Town. Which means he wasn't getting lynched.

[SensFan]

My current suspicions of you began forming about 93 minutes ago. I'm still not sure you're Scum; you may very well actually believe that what you did was some amazingly obvious townpost.

[SensFan]

Jesus, Lowell. Either at the very least read the fucking thread, or replace out and do us all a favour.

Also, perhaps I'm mistaken, but if I recall correctly, Nathanael's entire 'scumread' on me was based in large part on the fact that I was pushing too hard on Jack, in his opinion. His townread on Jack was based on the fact there was already more than enough scum bussing going around for Dram/Reck to have been bussing Jack, too. So now the natural result is that a JackScum flip means I'm still Scum? Huh?

[SensFan]

Lowell's meta is basically impossible to read. In the last couple hours, for instance, he has now said that he's not even trying to read the thread, and doesn't even know the rules of the fucking game. I'm starting to agree with Fonz about him, though, it's certainly extremely noteworthy that there's really no one that seems to want him lynched. Usually people like him are scum targets for easy mislynches.

Not to mention, its the Jack effect. He will be lynched at some point, since we're not letting a ScumLowell win. So if we're going to lynch him at some point, it should probably be sooner rather than later.

[SensFan]

The problem, Feysal, is that it doesn't take a genius for chesskid to realize all of that, and decide to mess with his own meta.

[SensFan]

Am I the only one who finds it odd that, after not caring or posting for almost all of three Days, Lowell seems extremely quick to promise to catch up now that 3 Pyhrric Scum are dead, and so there's presumably only 1-2 Scum left?

[SensFan]

I don't think TownLowell would care, is I guess what I'm saying.

[SensFan]

2. SensF is a known (at least so it seemed from your discussions, haven't checked it) policy lyncher, especially LaL and such stuff. I do not think he could have done anything else in Jack' direction without attracting tons of meta-suspicion.

Door number One: SensFan has a meta of, several months back, being in favour of lynching claimed Millers on the spot, so he thought that from a meta-perspective, his best plan was to push for a lynch of Jack because LAL is also a similar policy.
Door number Two: SensFan saw someone who lied in a way that directly hurt Town and advantaged Scum, and thought he was more likely to be Scum based on that, and so pushed for a Jack lynch.

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: scot

[SensFan]

The correct way to give him a 24-hour deadline is to submit a Glroking of him.

[SensFan]

For your sake, Lowell, don't take a couple days. You have about 11 hours.

[SensFan]

You have been executed.

[SensFan]

Um, well, for one, a confirmed scum DID SPEND THE ENTIRE DAY OF HIS DEATH ATTACKING ME. So not clear what you're talking about here.

First of all, Jack almost never posted once we put his ass on the block. Secondly, by the time he started making some REALLY weak 'attacks' on you, Fonz had already replaced in and pointed out that everyone was basically letting you float on through, so that's not at all a defense against the case that 'Lowell lurked like hell and no one called him on it'.

[SensFan]

Vote: Fonz

[SensFan]

Alright, so since we're only going to have a week after the Tribunal elections, let's get down to business and start figuring shit out now. I think it's probably fairly obvious that Nathanael is one of my top suspects at this point, so Magua, what're your thoughts about him? Is there anyone (other than rib, obviously) that you're completely against seeing executed, and/or anyone that you think should be executed instead of Nathan?

[SensFan]

Add on 'Does his damnest to undermine the credibility of anyone who isn't mod-confirmed Town' to the list of reasons why Nathanael is probably Scum.

[SensFan]

I'm pretty sure you still think I'm Scum, so I obviously disagree with some of your reads as well. Doesn't mean I don't trust your judgement more than anyone else for the position of Tribune. Besides, it might have been before you replaced in, but there was a fair amount of controversy involved in the Tribune votes from D2 onwards, when there was the 'rib needs to be a Consul' crowd, and the 'rib shouldn't be a Consul' crowd.

[SensFan]

If there's only two Scum left, a Scum Tribune can make it impossible that a Scum is lynched that day, if he wants.

[SensFan]

Umm, no, Feysal. ScumTribune saving his scumbuddy today means we have to lynch Town today, and we have far less days to find the connections than if those connections were established on D1.

[SensFan]

Maybe I'm missing something, Feysal, but why it is in the Town's best interests to decide now on someone that will be immune from being lynched today?

[SensFan]

Other than the fact that a lot can change between now and the end of the Day, and I'd rather not lock in anyone other than rib/Fonz as untouchable a full week before the deadline. Also, being made untouchable may lead to someone taking a Day off, since they're in no danger.

[SensFan]

I think we all agree that you are likely to be Town, and so aren't in any real danger of being executed today.
I think we all agree that ribwhich is obviously Town, and so isn't in any real danger of being executed today.

I'm saying that I think its in our best interests to give one of you the Tribunal power, because you weren't going to be lynched in either case, and in your particular case, I personally trust your judgement. I think it would be foolish for us to give Execution Immunity to anyone other than the two of you, since that would narrow the effective pool of lynches from six to five, and that's before any of the Official Pardons given by the three people capable of doing so.
Here's a quick hypothetical scenario off the top of my head:
Let's say we give scot the spot of Tribunal (for example), now we're down to 5 realistic lynches.
I don't want Shanba to swing, and Magua has a townread on Nat. Now we're down to 3.
We decide to lynch Parama, and scot intervenes and uses his veto.
All of a sudden, we're down to two lynch targets to pick from.

I'm just saying that the pool of potential lynches is small enough as it is, with Me/Magua being Consuls, Rib being Consulmaker, and you being viewed as town by most people. I don't see the need to want to add a fifth person to the list of people who won't be lynched today, as well as give them the power to add a sixth.

[SensFan]

As did I.