Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.
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ribwich Goon
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I am counterclaiming consulmaker. I have no idea why Jack tried claiming it this early since outing me does scum absolutely no good, but he is not it. If you guys want, I can prove it at the end of this day by calling who will be the new consuls day 2."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I chose the consuls pretty much randomly. This is actually my first game after a two year hiatus, so I don't really know any of the players or know who would be a good pick. I did remember the name SensFan (although nothing about him) from Price is Right Mafia, so I picked him and then just a random player.
I decided right away that if someone else tried claiming my role, I would have no problem with counterclaiming it. This isn't even a real power role since another townie will get it right away if I die, so town loses nothing by me being outed. It's also an easy to prove role since I can announce who the new consuls will be before the next day starts."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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1. If one my consuls ever tried to execute me, I would have. Otherwise, I wasn't planning on revealing it.Nathanael wrote: ribwich:
1. would you have claimed consulmaker if Jack hadn't claimed?
2. do you believe Jack is scum?
3. why do you think did Jack claim consulmaker?
2. Yes. I see no reason why someone would fakeclaim consulmaker unless they were scum.
3. There's a few reasons I can think of:
A. For some reason he didn't think someone would counterclaim it
B. He misunderstood the setup, and thought outing the consulmaker would be more useful to scum than it actually is
C. Someone in the mafia has a power that only works when targeting me. In which case, outing me does actually help them.
I'm not a fan of this idea, since it would involve guaranteeing that at least one of the consuls tomorrow is scum. If you're insisting on not allowing either one of us to die today, I would propose this alternative: everyone divides themselves up into two groups. I will guarantee that the consuls tomorrow are one person from each group.SensFan wrote:Actually, I think I'd rather just explain my thoughts so others can see if I missed something.
Tonight, if Jack is Consulmaker, he makes ribwhich and someone he thinks is Town the Consuls. If ribwhich is Consulmaker, he targets Jack and someone he thinks is Town. D3, we execute whoever of Jack/ribwhich turns up as Consul tomorrow."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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Is there still a way to roll dice on here? Roll a 2-sided dice for each player. If this ends with the 2 groups being uneven, roll a (# of players in larger group)-sided die, and select that player from the list to go to the other group. Repeat until the groups are balanced.SensFan wrote:
I'm not such a big fan of this idea, since it leads to the question of how the groups will be split up. Besides, I really don't see the downside to killing one of them for sure on D3, with the bonus of added info from a Scumconsul.inHimshallibe wrote:
This is a great idea, and doesn't take until D3 to kill one of the fakes. Makes me think Sens is scum trying to drag out offing one of his teammates.Nathanael wrote:
how about dividing everyone in two groups A and Bribwich wrote:I'm not a fan of this idea, since it would involve guaranteeing that at least one of the consuls tomorrow is scum. If you're insisting on not allowing either one of us to die today, I would propose this alternative: everyone divides themselves up into two groups. I will guarantee that the consuls tomorrow are one person from each group.
and you choosing both consuls out of A and Jack choosing both consuls out of B?
that way even if one consul dies, we still know who of you is the real consulmaker.
PS:FoS: chesskid, for his nonsense-attack on me.
I don't see how there's any "bonus" to having a confirmed scum player be consul. There might be info found in the actions of a consul that was later found to be scum, but someone that became consul at the same time as being confirmed scum would just force a no lynch."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Nathanael wrote:how about simply splitting player-list in half?
it should be random enough for our purposes.
Either of these would be fine with me. I really don't care how the list gets split, since using this method should make tomorrow's lynch easy. Even if it ends with two scum consuls, as long as neither is confirmed scum, they should go along with the plan if they don't want to get attention thrown to them.Primate wrote:Possibly the way to do it is to get both consulmakers to agree on a randomish method (alphabetically by username, signup order), that way at know for sure that we've got one non-scum helping decide.
Why am I not surprised that Jack is less interested in doing this now that it's becoming harder for scum to use it to their advantage?"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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You seemed fine with it back when the method of proving I'm consulmaker was just I call the 2 consuls before night starts (easier for mafia to exploit)
You're "not interested" now that it's this two groups idea. (much harder for mafia to exploit since they don't actually know who the consuls will be)"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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...this is already such a weird game. Sens, why would you want Jack to be Tribune? Jack and myself should be the two guaranteed to not be a Tribune this day.
I haven't really seen enough yet to know for sure who I want to vote for, but I'm leaning towards chamber, InHim, and rabies right now."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Vote: rabies
Another method I would be fine with using. Jack, I'll even let you pick which group is yours. And for anyone that thinks there's a chance both of us are scum, any potential third consulmaker could just pick one from each group.SpyreX wrote:Just pick a method with what we have up (the list) and split into two. How about even and odds? Done. Done."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I wasn't able to find the game, but from how you described it that sounds like a completely different situation. If Jack doesn't get elected as tribunal, (which he shouldn't, and neither should I) that doesn't mean we're going to be left with zero information.SensFan wrote: Strongly disagree. If it pleases you, look up Martyr Mafia. I suicidebombed Scum N0 in a 10:2 set-up. Town went on to lose, due to not having any informtion or links from the dead Scum."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Sens, do you believe that either Jack or I will be confirmed as scum by Day 2?
If yes, why would you want either one of us to be a tribunal today? I understand that there is some merit to the testing how potential scum will act as a tribunal idea, but why bother risking it when it's going to be confirmed the next day anyway? If I was scum, knew my cover was going to be blown the next day, and received tribunal power, I would just veto any execution for the sake of either saving a scummate or causing a bunch of confusion. I don't see how that helps the town at all."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Sens, even though it's not as relevant any more, I would still like a response to post #276.
I might be alone in this, but I would much prefer if the executions never work that way again. The way I see it, other than extreme cases, there shouldn't ever be a time when the veto power needs to actually be used. I think it should be made clear from all tribunals and consuls on whether or not they are fine with an execution, or else the day could end horribly. Whether Sens was trying to end the day early or not, there's a good chance it could have if Nathaniel happened to not get a chance to check this soon enough.
Jack, quit ignoring me.You're trying to not respond to my offer of evens or odds so that tomorrow you can say the reason the consuls didn't get picked correctly is because you never agreed to the plan. It's not going to work. Pick one soon or I'll pick for you."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I know. That's not what I was asking. My question was why would you want him to be tribunal when he's going to be confirmed as scum tomorrow anyway?SensFan wrote: Re: 276
I still would have wanted Jack as a Tribunal.
Well I hope you had fun being consul for a day, because you're never getting that power again. This isn't about asking permission to execute, or hiding behind the majority, or using an excuse for why they didn't post a veto. This is about pulling a dick move like trying to get an execution started at the soonest possible time. It was the weekend after Thanksgiving, so there was a good chance a lot of people weren't going to get a chance to see it (notice how activity has been pretty low from the majority lately?) And on top of that, after it got vetoed the first time, you tried executing him again for shits and giggles. All it's going to take to get a quicklynch is for Nathaniel to not notice one of your executions right away.SensFan wrote:Re: Executions
Tough shit. As long as I'm a Consul, I won't ask permission to execute someone, nor will I be telling anyone if I plan on vetoing an execution until I decide to Veto or NotVeto an execution that has been placed. I'm not going to be hiding behind the protection of the majority, and I won't be letting any of the other people in power today do so either. When you play a game of Mafia, you are expected to be checking the thread every 48 hours as a bare minimum, so unless someone announces V/LA ahead of time (in which case I likely won't submit an execution during that time), if anyone chooses not to use their Veto, I will assume that they saw the execution posted and chose not to use it; I won't be accepting "Oops I didn't check the thread for 2 days".
Fine.Jack wrote: @ribwhich: since you say you are the consulmaker, why wouldn't you just pick, going for even or odd based on who you wanted to be consul?I'm taking evens."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Trying to start an execution at the very start of the day that's going to get vetoed anyway can only accomplish two things:SensFan wrote:Now, I realize that rib is most definatively either an idiot or Scum, since he seems to want no one to even think of the E-word without first asking permission from everyone else. Likely on the idiot side of that line, since he also hasn't read enough of the thread to realize that I was not trying to have chesskid executed the first time.
A: Waste one of the tribunal's vetoes
B: Cause an accidental quicklynch
And I understand that you were at least making it look like you didn't actually want chesskid executed, but that's part of my point. If you don't want somebody executed, don't use your power to execute them. All you're doing is abusing your power to try to get reactions from people, but it's going to cause more harm than good."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Which can be just as easily accomplished through the threat of execution. When it's clear you have no intention of actually wanting the execution at that time there's no difference.SensFan wrote: C: Get the message across to someone that they need to smarten up
See above andSensFan wrote:D: Get reactions from everyoneAll you're doing is abusing your power to try to get reactions from people, but it's going to cause more harm than good.
Or because Sens decided to waive his right to veto to try to look more threatening, chamber and Primate assumed Nathan was going to use his veto anyway, and something happened to cause Nathan to not get a chance to use his veto in time. And before you say something, I know that didn't happen. That's not the point. The point is if you and future consuls play this way, a situation like that is very likely to happen.SensFan wrote:Also, there's no such thing as an accidental quicklynch. If chesskid had been lynched, it would have been because each one of {Sens, chamber, Primate, Nathan} wanted him lynched.
Honestly, I don't think it's much to look into, but I don't want to say why until Kat responds.SpyreX wrote: Real things are happening. I'd love for both of you to comment on Kat's little "Ohh I forgot about the game but I know what happened in it" business."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Or maybe I should actually read the posts that come up before submitting....
I don't think it's that far fetched for Kat to have seen the mod's post. The title says "Parama has been saved!" so the very first thing I did was look through the recent posts to find either a bolded post or something from the mod explaining what happened."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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And so did I. But, before getting caught up on everything I figured out exactly what was going on regarding chesskid. I can see how Kat did the same thing.SpyreX wrote:Yea, when I saw that I was curious too. So I, ya know, CAUGHT UP ON THE GAME.
That, however, is scummy. I didn't agree with SpyreX's thinking, but it was still valid. Why do you think Spy is scum?Katsuki wrote:Are you scum this game, spyspy?
Pseudo vote: Katuski"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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In that case, I think it's this part of your post I was more confused about.
I took that to mean that you already had Kat as the highest on your choice list, and the recent posts just helped confirm it. What did you mean by "hate-belly"? If the recent posts involving Kat hadn't happened, would Scot be the one that you most want to see executed?Hate-belly says kat.
Gut says scot."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of this pseudo vote thing to get an idea of who everyone wants executed? What's the point of having a vote on someone that you don't actually want executed today?SensFan wrote:
Partly what Parama said. Partly I realized that you've been much more scummy than Jack.ribwich wrote:What happened to "I will not allow the execution of Jack or ribwich"?
Mostly that I don't think its in the Town's best interests for you to continue making the decisions on who is Consul, if you happen to be Consulmaker.
I would ask you to explain how I'm scummier than Jack, but it really doesn't even matter. It'll be obvious by tomorrow that I'm the real consulmaker and that he's lying scum.
And the fact that you're more interested in getting rid of the consulmaker instead of scum just because I don't want consuls that will abuse their power makes me all the more confident in my decision to never let you be consul again."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I'm not talking like I'm confirmed consulmaker. I'm talking like someone that's going to be confirmed tomorrow when the consuls get chosen the way I said they would. Taking the gamble on Jack or me would be the worst move you could make. There is absolutely no reason to want to execute either of us when tomorrow it will be confirmed which of us is lying."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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It's not the abrasiveness that makes me think he's scummy. It's the fact that he tried to get us to use a plan that would involve having confirmed scum as consul tomorrow, and when that didn't work he tried to get Jack to be a tribune.SpyreX wrote:Abrasive != scummy.
I've got good feelings all over about Sens being town.
Not that I agree with killing one of the two as its panned out TODAY (especially when there's others so deserving)"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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Parama, why is Nathanael scummy? I don't really understand what you meant by
Also, why do you believe that Jack and I are both town? What pro-town reason would there be for lying about being consulmaker?he's pretty much trying to line up lynches from the looks of things."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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<b>Mod, what happens if an execution attempt is made when there's less than 48 hours for the deadline?</b>
Just quoting this incase Parama missed it the first time
ribwich wrote:Parama, why is Nathanael scummy? I don't really understand what you meant by
Also, why do you believe that Jack and I are both town? What pro-town reason would there be for lying about being consulmaker?he's pretty much trying to line up lynches from the looks of things."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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I'm not sure how strongly this should be considered, but this could be a slip. There are no VTs in this game. The closest thing is a Roman Senator, but they're not really vanilla since the PM states they can become consulmaker. It probably isn't very much on its own since I could see some people still referring to it as a VT, but I do think it at least adds to the case against Katsuki.Katsuki wrote:I am a VT btw. You guys can proceed accordingly."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Quoting to show that this is the plan I will be using when selecting consuls.Feysal wrote:Hello SpyreX. Hello Katsuki. Bye Katsuki. Hello everyone else I've not played with before.
I'm replacing Rabies, and I've read about a third of the game so far. I will read the rest tomorrow before the execution happens. I have no opinion yet on whether Katsuki deserves execution this game, but I will say that she is an easy target to get mislynched.
Reading about the two Consulmaker claims and the plans to find which of them was lying was certainly interesting. I saw some patently bad ideas, but fortunately there are players with common sense around, and all the ideas I had while reading were invariably mentioned by someone. Anyway, I think it is obvious that one of them is lying scum, though I cannot fathom what the scum hope to accomplish by it.
Time is running short, so I will just go ahead and propose a plan. As discussed, all players will be divided in two groups. Jack has to choose the next consuls from one group, and ribwich has to choose them from the other. Even if one consul dies, the one surviving consul and the identity of the night kill will indicate which of them is telling the truth. Just in case the real Consulmaker has yet to reveal himself, then this third Consulmaker should choose one consul from each of the two groups. Clear enough? I should hope so.
How the players are divided into groups is irrelevant, as long as it is arbitrary and has nothing to do with anyone's reads. I will just use the order of the playerlist. The current consuls are removed from the lists since they cannot be consuls for two consecutive days, as well as the two Consulmaker candidates, for obvious reasons. Even/odd won't work because both current consuls are even, meaning the groups would not have equal size that way.
Hope these lists work for both Jack and ribwich.Nathanael #524 wrote:have we decided on the two lists for the consulmakers yet? if yes, must have missed it, show me.
it is necessary we do that before a lynch.
I also want both consulmakers to explicitly agree with it by quoting it, so there are no misunderstandings.
More to come tomorrow before the deadline, once I've had some sleep and read the rest of the thread."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Feysal, a couple of people have suggested the idea that Jack and I are both town. Primate (I believe) has said that it's too stupid of a move for scum to do, and parama hasn't given an explanation despite me asking for one twice, but thinks that its obvious we're both town. What do you think about this idea and the players that suggested it?
There's some other things I wanted to say, but I'm posting this from a phone and its too difficult to get to the right quotes. I'll try to have a post tonight."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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Feysal wrote:However... from a quick ISO read of Katsuki I feel this is a mislynch for lurking.
I disagree with this. Although I can't comment on if this is common for Katsuki, there's more to the lynch than just the lurking. There's been the couple of times to suggest that Kat actually has been paying attention to this thread. (I still don't think the first instance was really that strong of a case since there are ways to explain it, but when another one pops up it makes me rethink it.) Kat also tried calling Spy scum just for being called out on this behavior, which is probably the closest to omgus voting you can get in this game.Feysal wrote:I believe Katsuki is town. She has been useless, that is true, but for Katsuki this is par for the course, even the replacing out when lynched.
Is there someone you think has a better case against them that isn't immune today and isn't claiming consulmaker?Feysal wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't think the chance of Katsuki being scum is any higher than when picking any player at random.
i hope u dieHas the execution happened yet?
I want blood, damnit.
The comments like these are just annoying. There's nothing wrong with what Nathanael is doing. Why would you want the day to end early before replacements get a chance to contribute to the game? Plus, Jack still hasn't confirmed if he's going to use the plan. He probably won't, but let's not give him a chance to go "you guys ended the day before I could say I wasn't going to use that to pick consuls."Keep doing that, and I will force a No Lynch. This is getting fucking retarded."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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I was really worried about something like this after I counterclaimed, but the more I think about the more I feel it will still be worth it if this is the case. If it turns out they've gotten such a hold over me that I've become a liability to town, there would have to be a vig for balance purposes to take me out. We still get a free ticket to the identity of one scum member, and any future consulmaker will be made more aware of what can happen with a claim.Feysal wrote:Question is, would scum claiming Consulmaker make any more sense? At first glance no, but there may be some mechanic involved we don't know about. For instance, the scum could have a role blocker and plan to force the Consulmaker into revealing himself, only to keep blocking him from selecting new consuls. There may be some hidden purpose in scum doing this which we cannot see.
We should be wiser tomorrow, but I fear the scum have some way of messing with the Consulmaker."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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Hey Parama:
ribwich wrote:why is Nathanael scummy? I don't really understand what you meant by
Also, why do you believe that Jack and I are both town? What pro-town reason would there be for lying about being consulmaker?he's pretty much trying to line up lynches from the looks of things."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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You've been pushing a case, you just haven't explained what the case is. This is the third time you've made a post about how he's scummy without giving a reason why.
If nobody counterclaims, scum gets to look like town. If someone does counterclaim, scum knows who the real consulmaker is."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Vote: ribwich
I intend on doing this at the start of every day. I also do not plan on giving any explanation on my choices for consuls. The more I say about which players are the best to give power to is the more information scum get at guessing who I'm going to elect the next day."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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If enough people disagree with it, I might change my approach to the beginning of the days. I just don't think town loses very much by having one person not comment on who they want to give power to, while scum gains quite a bit by having the consulmaker comment on who they want to give power to.
I think because of this you guys need to look at it on a case by case basis. If it looks like I'm trying to get a specific person executed, and you don't think that person is scummy, then you obviously shouldn't be voting for me.SensFan wrote:He has a tremendous amount of control. If he finds me scummy, he can pick two Consuls who both find me scummy as well, for instance. I think it's a massive mistake to let someone pick the Consuls and also have veto power.
But then why keep the charade up once the real consulmaker counter claims? I might have believed him if at the very beginning he admitted to lying and said he was trying to protect the real consulmaker, but he kept his claim even after several people said that if we are both town the lying one needs to come clean immediately. Hell, even after being caught lying, he's still trying to say that he's consulmaker.xRECKONERx wrote:Trying to protect the real consulmaker? I dunno. It's so fucking blatantly scummy, though, I can't see WHY scum would do it to draw attention to themselves."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Does that mean you would execute him today if you knew nobody would veto it?dramonic wrote:My psychic powers say if I put you on the chopping block I'll get vetoed.
I must be a seer!
I just don't see how that could be the case when Jack is still trying to stick to his consulmaker claim. I think someone in the scum QT told him to say he picked consuls from my list to psych out the scum (which is probably why someone from his list got nightkilled) and someone else told him to say he got mixed up on who belonged to which group. He got confused and used both of those excuses not realizing that they contradict each other.xRECKONERx wrote:Shit, I guess it is WIFOM.
I just feel like Jack is stupidtown instead of stupidscum. *shrug*
Whatevs. I won't miss him if he gets executed, but I'm still convinced he's town."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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I intend on waiving my right to veto, but I want to get a few questions out there first. Dram or scot, these don't have to all get answered before the day ends, but could you at least make sure the deadline doesn't happen before Leon gets a chance to do his catch up post?
chamber: Why did you veto the execution attempt on parama? Would you have vetoed any execution that wasn't on katsuki?
Nathaniel: Was there ever a time when you were thinking you would allow katsuki to be executed? If not, why keep the charade up by constantly doing attempts on her?
SensFan: Did you think powerrox was going to flip scum? If not, why didn't you veto the execution?
Feysal: Knowing that Katsuki was obviously lying about not having enough time for this, (she signed up for other large games afterwards) do you still think this is all a big null tell for her?
Parama: Since he's not unlynchable anymore, can we get that case on Nathaniel?
Dram: Do you honestly think reck is scum? If you knew it would go unvetoed, would you execute him right now if you had the chance?
Reck: Do you honestly think dram is scum? If you knew it would go unvetoed, would you execute him right now if you had the chance?"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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The one thing Jack has said that I agree with. Although now that he's the one to bring it up, I'm not sure how strongly I agree with it anymore...Jack wrote:Your "holy shit, how'd I miss that?" post reads as "holy shit, I got myself in trouble saying he was town!".
I wasn't planning on saying anything until tomorrow, but I did find it pretty hard to believe that reck not only missed that post, but also missed every post referencing and quoting it, including a post of mine that reck was replying to."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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If this is what really happened, Jack made a terrible move. There was no need for me to have cover. This isn't a real power role. If I die, the honors go to another VT anyway, so the only reason I'm even likely to get targeted is because I'm confirmed town. People that were pushing for the dichotomy are not scummy, or else we have more scum players than town players in this game.Parama wrote: Watch and learn:
Jacktown claims consulmaker to cover for the real consulmaker and try to attract a kill as a VT.
Ribwichtown the idiot ccs because he is unable to process this simple thought process and ruins the entire point of Jack's claim.
That Nath doesn't even try and consider this option FROM HIS POSITION shows that he's aiming towards the dichotomy and is scum trying to set up two mislynches based on claims alone. Even a 3rd grader has enough of the brain to come up with the solution, "Oooh they could both be town right? right? Riiiight?""ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.Parama wrote:And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.
Was this a specific to the situation idea that you can share, or do you need to keep it secret since its general enough that it could be used again later in the game?SensFan wrote:I didn't have a read on powerrox, but there were other players I was much more confidant would flip Scum. Unfortunately, I didn't veto the execution because I had a great idea, but was late coming home from class and missed my chance."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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After rereading the post, this part is making me rethink things. I was originally thinking that reck and parama look scummy for trying to protect their scummate, but if Jack flips town, they actually look even more suspicious. The fact that they're acting like it's so obvious for Jack to be town when it really isn't obvious suggests that they have outside knowledge that Jack isn't scum. We'd still have to kill you today, but if it does turn out that you are town, there actually will be information to gain from it.Jack wrote:2) I get counterclaimed and we kick of day 1 with practically everyone commenting on who they think is lying and who they think is scum. Scum KNOW that neither of us are scum. Town DOES NOT KNOW that. This is excellent. The fact that people generally didn't get it bodes well for the quality of the reads based on it."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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I'm probably going to get some flak for this, and I'm surprised myself that I'm actually doing this...
VETO JACK EXECUTION
I'm not saying I for sure think he's town. There's a chance that this has all been a big scum gambit, but I can now really see the pro-town reasons for what he did. There's better execution choices for today."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Oh come on SensFan. You of all people should be able to see what there is to gain from this. Sure, Jack needs to die, and he's going to. There's no way he's going to survive to the end with what he's done, but what do we gain from doing it now? If we let dram and scot execute the easiest target, we learn nothing about them. But when that easy target is taken away from them and they have to make a real decision, we get information. There's a player that I think is actually scummier than Jack, but at the moment I don't have time to make the full case. So for now, I just want to see what's going to happen."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Not that it matters as much now since he's already dead, but reck was who I was referring to. I'm not going to bother now with the whole case, but the main idea was that he looks scummy regardless of whether Jack is town or scum.
I'm still thinking there's a good chance Jack is actually town. It's obvious he had the whole thing planned from the beginning for this being about trapping people that had inside knowledge of knowing both claimed consulmakers are town. It wasn't a last plan of defense, because now it actually makes sense why he did it in the first place. So what it comes down to is was it really a town plan to gain information, or was it a scum gambit to try to stay alive? It just makes more sense to me for this to be a town move, because there was a slim chance of it working if he was scum, while there was a lot to gain if he was town."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Vote: ribwich
To be honest, it was an issue of timing. The entire reconsideration of how Jack should be approached didn't come to me until right when I made that post, and I wasn't willing to rely on one of the consuls being able to extend the lynch time to give us more time to discuss the merits of the plan. I also just didn't have enough time to actually make my case against reck, but with dram being one of the consuls I was pretty sure saving Jack would get him killed anyway. For what it's worth, if I'm ever tribune again, I promise that I won't make a move like that again without discussing it with everyone first.Feysal wrote:I would not mind ribwich being reelected, though I would prefer him to discuss his plans with the town before making another controversial move. We were fortunate dramonic had to put his executioner's axe where his words were, and no one vetoed the execution. I still think it would've been better if ribwich had made his case against reckoner, that would have discouraged anyone from vetoing. Now we had luck on our side."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Actually, in a game like this, are we sure that the bodyguard shouldn't claim earlier? Normally I would agree with this, but confirmed town members are extremely valuable to us. If the bodyguard claims, we can ensure that there is at least one town consul every day. They'll be more likely to get nightkilled, but isn't that part of the point of the bodyguard?Feysal wrote:The death of a backup bodyguard is also interesting. It implies there is a bodyguard also, meaning we have another confirmed town should that someone wish to claim. Which that someone obviously should not do, unless he ends up on death row."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Ah okay. I'm not very familiar with the bodyguard role, so I wasn't aware there were multiple types. Are bodyguards generally aware of whether they're regular or elite?
Another thing that's occurred to me is we should pay more attention to the fact that only one kill happened night 1. Since the bodyguard is still alive, and it seems unlikely for there to be a doctor and a bodyguard, either there is no serial killer and it actually was a vigilante that killed dram, or a roleblocker prevented one of the kills the first night. If it's the second that's the case, and it wasn't reck or dram that they blocked, should the roleblocker claim now?"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Two scumteams would actually make a lot of sense. That would explain Jack's gambit a hell of a lot better than him being town or on the only scumteam does. His scumteam gets info on who's on the other team, and he sacrifices himself for the sake of disrupting town discussion and getting attention away from his own side.SpyreX wrote:I guess I need to really mull it because would Dram throw double busses? Because no way in hell ever is Jack an SK.
Two scumteams?
What am I missing? Help me Sens"ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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Also note that dram's explanation for why he didn't try to execute reck in the first place was specifically because it was going to be vetoed.scotmany12 wrote:Similar to why he had to shoot reck second. The majority of the town wanted jack lynched. Had he tried to kill reck first, we once again, would have known something was up. And I was the other consul, and I was pretty adamant during day one that I thought jack should be lynched. Its not crazy to think dram was afraid of me vetoing reck and then executing jack."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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ribwich Goon
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Nice backtrack and way to ignore the question. I'm guessing by now you've figured out what I was leading up to, which is that you've been taking on a more subtle approach to what porochaz is doing. "Jack is town. Ribwich is stupid for saving him."Parama wrote:Hmm now that I'm rethinking... there's probably 2 scum left, maaaaaybe 3 but it's less likely, so the scum probably aren't voting together on the tribune wagon.
So Jack probably isn't scum since Nathanael is."ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo" - Vi-
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ribwich Goon
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