Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[DTMaster]

I apologize for not checking in (been busy) I won't be able to post till Sunday afternoon.

However Papa Zito is an idiot and I need to claim right now.

I'm a Beloved Princess

. I asked and my role of course makes night be extended by 1 phase if I am killed at night. Lynching me doesn't extend the day phase and it acts like a normal lynch. Therefore I suggest that 2 phases before predicted lylo you auto lynch me if I'm alive then. Or take care of me now.

As an aside: I'm going to post my arguments in the objectionifier for lols (but I'll post my arguments in thread if you don't want to read it Phoenix Wright style).

Self note: A wagon analysis is a good idea. Normal patterns in a normal 3 scum team predict that usually 2 scum would be on VV's wagon and 1 off. Normally you'd have 1 bussing scum (possibly Rhinox). Anti-town town is an easy wagon to slip under.

Also for reference you may question about but a summary of my reads are.

Fate is obv town to his meta.
UK is playing to her meta. Fate's day 1 case on her is lolololololol because that's how she's been playing for a while now.
I want to investigate Vezok due to his early game play (eg his day 1 vote argument) but Rhino's easiness to vote him makes me question it. I need to reread Rhinox to verify a few things.
Eli isn't playing to her usual aggressiveness CAPsLOCK style and is playing to her LURKER SCUM STYLE seen in CEBM. I wouldn't mind if she died at the moment.

I'll post fully on Sunday with quotes/etc explaining the above arguments. For now I'll be useful and do something.

Vote Vezok

Edit: I just read the claim . DURHHHHHHHHPPPPPPed. I cross checked his post dates and Vezok posted Tuesday, and Thrusday so he had time to check in and do something during the night since he was on the site voting in another on going game. To me that's a poor excuse since Vezok even said in his last post on Tuesday before the hammer that he'd be going on a M_O case on Day 2.

[DTMaster]

Ehh what the heck this is what I got done. It's not complete but explains the reads


1. Everyone's probably used to the Vezok unvote at the start of the game. Scum points for the man for being picky about his vote on page 2 (since he didn't vote again). Wagons are good for information. Quick lynches are even better (and extremely unlikely to be derived from town especially with this player list) for analysis.

I'd Vote/Kill the man right for that unvote right thar.

Objectionified

2.UK is being UK. Her vote on Faraday and her stance on SP is normal. So Fate's case is full of water in my eyes due to UK meta.

Heck her stance on concision with posts stems from her “pro-town hunting” theory. It's not new and all of this is typical UK.

Objectionified

3. Ihmo I can get behind the Fate's VV case except Fate is a night action magnet regardless of alignment (since he's quite unreadable). Vig, maybe not, other actions, sure. Though this is a good thing since your offense is a change from your scum game that I played with you “whew”.

Even though I know the VV punch line, it's something that I'd do as a secondary option. Overall Fate = town.

Objectionified

Aside: FYI Fate if you are seriously mentioning that this RRUA acryonym is scum code, it's Vi who would be scum since that's who's quoted in the post. Not Rhinox.

My interpretation: Its a game that all these people were in.

Hindsight: Also The Rhino vote on VV still is valid. Not a distancing argument, but an easy wagon argument.

Issue though: It's like page 3 and little content to work off. Any vote will be hyper analyzed at this point, thus the lulz vote could be a lulz vote. It's page 3.
Conclusion: Based on the vote argument, I don't think it's strong enough. Rhino's question about Vi's wagon fit's with UK's definition of fluff questions. That I see.

Result: I'd like more info about Rhino.

PS: Vezok wagon is epic yoh. Don't dis it, let the sheep sheep there.

3. HOLY SHITTY SHITTY SHIT. RHINO BECAME UBER SCUMMY

Stop caring about other people's interpretation of you (in this case the OMGUS clause) and start caring about hunting scum. This is totally not townie:

The town mind set: “I'm voting scum. I don't care lolz”
The scum mindset: “You want me to vote for this guy?. But OMGUS suckz so I won't vote lol. I'll sheep this wagon. I don't want to defend his ass again from last game.”

Rhino should be lynched for this post alone. If you think VV is town you defend with all your might. If you think VV is scum you lynch with all your might. Ihmo you don't stop caring about players when you're tired of their play. Nor do you care about appearances when you're defending against Fate.

You judge them based on what you think their alignment is and hell, I'd take subpar players that I feel are town over neutral good players anyday.

As you can see I kind of stopped when I just read that Rhino was scum V.V.

[DTMaster]

Information I found during a Rhinox reread.

1. There's a weird dynamic between Jahudo/Vezok. At the start Rhinox agrees with Jahduo, then calls him scummy during his unvote for Vezok for the soft claim. There's a weird willingness in the subtext that Rhinox's willing less to jump on the Vezok wagon. Then he distances himself from agreeing with Jahudo with "game play reasons".

Aside: I went to double check the soft claim, which I think was this:

Please don't shot me. I have a sweet role and I don't want to get shot. And I don't want Fate to get shot either.

Which is weird because I thought this was a mason/lovers soft claim. A Neighbourizer though fits with this claim since Vezok did set up his intent to target Fate. Hmmmmmm.

I'm questioning this Vezok Day 1 case. It might be a case of the VV-ism (ie anti-town syndrome that got hyper analyzed on day 1).

2. Rhino's Calls out UK and M_O as well.

I notice this in Rhino's argument against M_O

Well like I said, at the beginning of the game, I felt like possibly Fate was just tossing around some shovels and VV was the first to start digging himself into a hole. I don't so much think that VV was trying to do stuff as he was panicking.

I don't feel like I was posting any more fluff than anyone else in the first couple pages in the game. The only difference being I was limited access from the start of the game. By rights maybe I shouldn't have posted at all until I could give full effort but I felt I should at least attempt to participate at the start rather be completely non-existent until now.

Which is ultimately ironic since Rhino is pointing fingers at people attacking VV poorly, yet he's agreeing with the VV scum read (awesome to read in hind sight), but shows similar patterns to bandwagon the M_O wagon if it does switch. People should have done more rereads.\

The UK arguments seem quite flawed.

I'm not sure, but since there is quite poor coordination of the arguments outlined in the M_O/UK/Jahudo/VV/Vezok wagon the subtext reads as: "Get anything to stick."

This with my Fate read leaves a super alliance bloc of 5 main people:

*Uk
*Fate
*Jahudo
*Magnus
*Vezok

I'd reread Vezok.

For now I downgrade the scum rating on Vezok to conflicted and be as investigation level. The above bloc I would consider to be the POWARFUL LAYWERS with what I read from Rhino's posts and poor arguments.

[DTMaster]

Hey AGM this post:

1. Where you called out that VV was both telling the truth but at the same time dismissed both Meta arguments because VV's play style was different (e.g. you said that it was getting sloppier in comparison to the other games that VV punted).

Can you link these games and show how?

. I don't care if we know VV is town, but I want to know WHY you came to the conclusion that stated that VV is acting as town meta but is different enough to be scummy even though you didn't take the time to consider it.

Meta calls like this usually cause town players to get very paranoid (e.g. Like me playing with Tubby back in Battle Mage Mafia again from my first newbie game). The way you easily dismiss this to be scummy is odd considering your round about argument that you posted.

[DTMaster]

AGM also: D1, even though knowing that Rhino was scum, did you think he was town at all? Using only knowledge from D1 around the time of the link post above.

[DTMaster]

I'm more interested in Almaster at the moment. My nose is there so I'm changing my vote

Unvote, Vote Almaster

. Prepare for DTM vs Almaster folks :3

[DTMaster]

@Work
1.UK: No my passive is based on a kill only. If I'm lynched it works normally. If I am killed at night then it's 2 night phases. It's slightly modified (I think to what I know of the role) since it's only

night action based

rather then

kill based

2. There is no reason why Almaster is better then Eli to my current read (as I haven't reread Almaster/Eli in full detail). I do however find a few things that tick me off to point towards Almaster-scum which is justified for me to investigate. There's no reason for me not to question him.

@Almaster
My break is 5 minutes boo, so i'll Post my line by line analysis later today/tomorrow. However to your point on Rhino

Why was it important for M_O to deconstruct VV when he was making a case on Rhino?

I don't find anything pro-town in these lines of arguments because there's no reason why M_O should need to deconstruct VV during that wagon period.

A townie would be more likely to go: Why is Rhino scum? Which M_O gave some reasons to. Since the main argument was the scum to post ratio was high in Rhino I would also expect a townie to go: Can you show this since this statement was vauge.

A scum player is more likely to do what you did and say: Why not VV over Rhino, why DERAIL THE MAIN WAGON? M_O's case on Rhino had no baring on VV's status. There's no reason why you needed to attack M_O for not deconstructing the VV wagon since he was dealing with Rhino.

Thus I assumed that you felt that Rhino was town since you were attacking M_O's reasoning. You did call him scummy and his arguments scummy. I find it odd that you went through 2 pages of arguments with M_O over a null read. That to me is suspicious.

If you're telling me that since I don't think Almaster is better then Eli that I should wagon it up with you then no, I won't unless I agree with you. I have my own cases that I want to run, you do your thing. Ka pieche?

[DTMaster]

TLDR: Your actions to attack MO directly and defend Rhino indirectly doesn't match with that statement that you felt Rhino was null.

[DTMaster]

Oopsies. UK that was ment for you. Though the role also has the normal win condition so it's worse then playing like a jester. I'd rather play normally and let what ever happens, happen.

It is nessessary though that I die 2 phases before predicted lylo.

When I'm not at work you'll see more objectified responses :3

[DTMaster]

1. I went through Vi's posts to see if anything points to potential gold to keep a float. Other then similar conclusions about M_O/Rhino i'd still like Almaster to answer Vi's post here:

First sentence - The comparison here is WITH VASUDEVA. I think it has been established that m_o looks sketchy, but why him over the person you were previously gung-ho for?

I don't know. I admit, I have not actually compared the cases side by side. I am just voting for magnus because he has been more scummy more recently. I SHOULD do a comparative analysis, but that will come later. Right now, I am more interested in seeing where this goes and giving myself more stuff to compare with.

This isn't a math question, no comparative analysis necessary. There were lots of people on VasudeVa (who you say is STILL hyperscummy) and he was getting lynched in 48 hours on my guarantee. You switched off of THAT GUY... why.

Edited of course since the second question didn't apply. I realized that I had the same thinking process about Vi's analysis on AGM. Especially with the whole chain of inherit defense of Rhino with a M_O attack that required him to compare VV and Rhino, this relates with the above Objectionfied (I think that the tunes code isn't working but what evs)

2. Initially it took me a while but Gammagooey troubled me because it was hard to get a read off him at first. I required an Iso read. Then I saw lots of hard stances. I like this. There are clear motives and attacks which to me is a good thing. Plus a hint of critical thinking (eg. his reply to me and his stance on M_O relating his content/stances compared to other players). Objectionified

3. Almaster's response line by line (that I missed)

a. VV Truth telling? OMG. I present to you this quote in objectionfied form This is where you validated VV's self meta in response to VV's accusation that you knew his game play. Thus by validating the self meta, you agree that VV has this history of anti-town play.

b. In regards to hiding from Fate: I can see it. I find your lack of paranoia to be odd because VV did have this history. You were bitten twice by VV's play in the games you mentioned. This is the third time. I find it odd that you are punishing him for the same way, using probably simillar arguments to those games that VV dug his own graves, for the third time.

If you're scum looking for that easy case, sure I'd see it. But after 3 times being burned as town, I'd expect you to sit down and think about whether this case would bite you in the arse. When you validated VV's self meta, you opened this Pandora's box of "what if questions".

c. Remember this quote that I objectionified. Why didn't you verify your reads? Are you that lazy? Or do you want to make a fake argument that I can't check up on? I'll wiki this and see what I can dig up but your inherit laziness to link these games when asked about when you clearly made a meta argument is really bad.

I wasn't looking for you to defend your stance on VV when I asked you to meta link. I was looking what your response was. I'd say you failed my little scum test because my hypothesis was:

As a town's person who made the above meta argument, it would be easy for him to link to the games in question. Since you know where these games are, you are able to make these arguments thus would be willing to link them. By linking the game, you Almaster, is showing actual determination to scum hunt. Thus: You are trying to find scum in this game and you're actually doing something.

As a scum's person you'd show reluctance to find these games even though you made meta arguments. Thus you gain scum points either through laziness or showing signs that you were throwing arguments to keep the VV fires going.

I'm judging you not on your actual conclusions here, I'm trying to see if you're putting effort in these cases (aka I'm looking to see if you're actually doing what you say). So far you don't seem to be. Reading between the lines is something that I've been improving on :p.

c. You validated VV's meta thus you validate that VV's self meta argument is town. It's a conclusion that's implied when you agreed that: "Yes VV does cause the town to shoot itself in the foot". Even though you made it fit into a "this could also be scum" argument, the inherit contrast is there to make your point.

You didn't say it directly, but it wasn't necessary.

d. You didn't consider anti-town VV (stated above) despite your previous history with VV. Why didn't you throw that on the table? (See a again)

[DTMaster]

@M_O
It's the whole haziness that Rhino did when he agreed Vezok is scum, then called Jahudo scum and Vezok scum even though Jahudo is the guy who started to spear head the Vezok case at the start. It's weird since Rhino agreed with Jahudo and did a 180. Thus the interactions are weird and can be interpreted as distancing or possibly scum trying to get things to stick.

It confuses me too, so I need to mull it over and do some Jahudo rereads to help it out. There could be something there. It's also a self note for me to see to look into further.

[DTMaster]

Ihmo, you guys should know that I did a double soft claim obvs. :p

[DTMaster]

I am reading from Iso at the moment. I'll reread this again looking more closely at the time stamps then.

[DTMaster]

Assuming worst case scenario that I die today: It's 3 town turn over with 2 additional to the second night if both nks hit only town. Therefore: WCS - 5 town death turn over. With 11 people, this puts it at 6 left. In a 3 man scum team that's 4:2. A 4 man scum team is 3:3.

If I don't die today and scum chooses not to kill me: WCS leads to 3 town deaths and 8 people alive. 3 man scum team leads to 2:6 and 4 man leads to 3:5.
In a 4 man team, we'd need to lynch and have the second kill hit scum successfully to win. In a 3 man team, we only need to hit scum once with a lynch or a kill. If we lynch scum in a 3 man team scenario:

1:6 -> 1:4 and 1:2 if both shots hit town.

The conditions that I assume, is that the second kill will always be present (no role shananigans, no vigs thinking about not shooting).

Up to you guys. I'm going to finish my analysis after some sleep :p

[DTMaster]

Almaster please respond to my post. Town what happened to my M_O read. I'm quite sad I didn't post during the whole debacle but that's in the past.

There is no excuses given that you've been posting in other games Almaster while you were "reading my wall".

[DTMaster]

1. Ihmo why do I feel like UK is the super secret scumz and this is the first time she's been scum in like years.
2. I recommend people listen to Gammagooey because he makes sense and is better then Fate atm. Ihmo I still face palmed at people for M_O's action directive: Lynch his scum targets investigate his neutral/secondary reads. ><;;; He was playing optimally as an investigative role.

3. Jahudo.

I find your logic super, suppppper duuupppper weak here (I read it like someone who's following the crowd since the trend is heading this way on Vezok).

Based on Rhinox, leaning town. Based on vezok's play, I'm beginning to understand that he's just being a proxy for Fate. So the reasons I had for finding him scummy (acting without reading the thread, so his actions are contradictory / opportunistic) look completely null now. So I don't consider him a good lynch choice today. Even thought I wish he'd change, I'm done trying to force it out of him.

You'd think that someone who's heavily sheeping Fate would be a bad thing (scum sheep to town aggressive leader). I wouldn't excuse Vezok's play for that. I agree that Rhinox does cast doubt in that slot, but hey, Vezok is still scummy. He's investigation worthy right now.

4. If Spy Spy turns out to be an SK we chain him him up. Ihmo I could care less about SK speculation and force him to follow the town directive in thread or die in a fire. These early pushes on Spy spy based on his vig claim and SK speculation is quite bad. Considering what I am you need him. Considering what I am Spy Spy-hypo SK needs to hunt scum or they'll rapidly deplete the town numbers and get a majority. Therefore Spy spy-sk's primary objective is to hunt the mafia scumz.

[DTMaster]

Ihmo

Vote AlmasterGM

cuz you know I have it in me to finish this case through.

[DTMaster]

You know something despite FATE TUNNEL CAPS LOCK ALIGNMENT: Mango has some good reads. It's worth investigating SocialPath. I only knew SP scum once when his buddys (Glork) bussed and won. Mango called Fate town regardless of the method of attack. Mango also got Rhinox scum when people were focused on VV.

Ihmo SP is also a superior wagon just cause I believe in the dead words of a townie :p

[DTMaster]

VP. Wait a minute..... you attempted to neighbourize Fate and it didn't work? When I got hit with a neighbourizing power it worked during the night even though I died the next day in another game of mine. I'll pull up the game.

[DTMaster]

Here's the game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=13759

I was a Jailkeeper. N1 UK was an evolver/empowerer role and evolved me N2 to a Neighbourizer.
N2 I neighbourized Nikanor Mason
I died N2
I formed a thread N2.

Ergo: VP either got blocked, which makes no sense as scum if they were worried about Fate saying stuff to VP in the thread since he died. or VP IS SCUM.

[DTMaster]

FYI: I died N2 but I technically didn't know that till D3. So I still was able to talk in my QT in that game. Link to the neighbour QT from LMCM part Deux.

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/saN3gA5irrJA

[DTMaster]

In my honest opinion. I've been using it to summerize my ideas recently.

[DTMaster]

I kind of mixed up the letters lol.

[DTMaster]

1. Gamma: Actually I wanted Vezok to be specific. I find it

more odd that he originally said that his skill didn't work

and changed it to

he made a thread with FATE

but he's alone.

To me this actually reads as scummy just based on psychology. Since I brought up out of game meta about neighbors (different mods, etc), the story changed. Since the story changed: it reads as scum trying his best to answer the question or change it from the original statement.

Vezok claimed his neighbouring powers didn't work. He didn't claim that he targeted Fate nor that he made a thread until I made the out of game meta. He claimed without claiming any information in the original statement.

To me this change reads as a scum slip. Nice trap eh? :3

2. Jahudo: A neighbourizer should just be treated as null in any case. Even though he's been bread crumbing his role, and sheeping his town/neighbour pick, that doesn't excuse him from scummy play. And trust me, after a ton of Reck and Ythill games I'm tired of scum sheeps. When someone sheeps they put all the responsibility (eg whether they look scummy going in/coming out of the lynch or wagon). Rather then focus on those case leaders, I'd be more worried about the sheeps that didn't contribute to the case/game.

3. SK Case: I'm not saying Spy is an SK. I'm saying that if Spy was determined in game via normal scum hunting or role actions to BE AN SK, we should keep him around to be our chained puppy. Otherwise Spy is just spy and just reads normally (aka I have a feeling he's town). If people really, really, really, want to press on this issue they would do so because they think Spy is SK scum.

4. Jahudo again: I dislike how you and many other people are excusing Vezok for

changing his story in a role action claim

. To me this is fishy.

5. UK: Just the hammer post gives me bad vibes (I've been there and done that as lulzy scum). I know different meta argument, sue me. I'm cranking up the dial on my empathy powerz (powers in training :[)

[DTMaster]

Nope :V. But VP's whole story reads as a massive cop-out to appease the angry DTM.

I'm still waiting on AGM who only said "fuuuuuuck" after he promise to get back to my wall. Generally scum say: "fuuuuuccck" since they know I caught them :p lol.

[DTMaster]

FinAls times. V/la till Saturday.

[DTMaster]

Almaster

now that two quick wagons occured, Answer my case plz k thnkz.

[DTMaster]

FYI this gambles on a 2 scum remaining, but I do need to be lynched today so the game doesn't kk? This

gambles on 2 scumz remaining

.

If there are any other roles out there that state otherwise (like cops blah or if you really really believe in 4 scum since this game is larger) do claim and we can orchestrate a mass claim. 4 scum with 3 remaining means that we need to lynch correctly and even then they can still shoot me and win the game.

[DTMaster]

Also if there are any doctors in this game, I want you to lie if we are in a mass claim for obvious reason good sir. Like actually don't claim doctor please k thanks.

[DTMaster]

UK: Can you verify that you only got the QT after night ended?

[DTMaster]

Sorry been away. I'll do a full reread when I get home from retail hell at Christmas time. I'll have responses to the Almaster. I also will announce though in my reads:

Jahudo has been a person of interest with Almaster, and this development just made me realize something (they both can't be scum together).
Vezok remains a person a interest.
NK wifom sez SP could be clear.

That is all.

[DTMaster]

Sorryz, but I'm at work. But an issue came up. Spy Spy berated UK to vote on the M_O wagon in this discussion. UK wanted to push for a VV, but POWARFUL WIZARDS suggested otherwise. That said very few people agreed with my POWARFUL LAWYERS bloc where M_O was seen as town (e.g. Eli).

I'm going to need to cross check Jahudo's stance with M_O and VV's with M_O.

[DTMaster]

1. I'm confused Jahudo. Are you calling Vezok scum or UK? Because in this last post it reads like a scum argument against Vezok. It seems stronger to your case against UK, especially since you confirmed the timing of the the M_O hammer/vote to flow naturally after my claim. Plus UK claimed suspicion of M_O earlier, and pushed for the Vezok wagon all day before Spyrex berated her to switch wagons.

If you don't have an explanation on Vezok's play and only theories, why aren't you multitasking and pushing on both UK and Vezok? Like that last post is super passive for someone who has suspicion on Vezok with a town read on him.

You say you hope Vezok explains him self. You're not questioning him like you are with UK. This is a passive form of attack and I dislike it.

2. Almaster I have words for you. But I have 1 more 8 hour shift sooooo words will come :<.

3. Rereads will come.

[DTMaster]

Wat. Why did SP die? WHHHHHRRRY. The NK WIFOM was correct though. I mean, like I expected that if I didn't die Gamma should have died. NK WIFOM IS KILLING MY BRAIN. Allow me to get my words before we lynch me.

[DTMaster]

Quick skim points towards AGM and Vezok based on yesterday play. I'll have words from there.

Paranoia wild card makes me distrust Gamma. Logic based on yesterday's wagon points to AGM since scum would have won assuming Vezok town. This means that it was the end game stages for scum's POV yesterday assuming Vezok-town.

Crazy theory: Both Vezok and UK were scum and bused for lulz.

Anyone claim to be neighbors with the man? He didn't claim one shot, and since he neighboured scum I'd expect someone to be with him now.

[DTMaster]

Ihmo UK wouldn't reveal her scum buddy directly. But her interactions with AGM support the distancing theory. Linking SP to Vezok reveals her plan of attack for mislynches based on a SP flip. I think AGM is the man. I need to finish my reread since I recall that I didn't finish my response to the man.

I find it funny that UK attacked everyone in her defense. Note to self: Look at the interactions between UK and AGM. My gut leads me there.

[DTMaster]

Also 4p mafia would have shot me and won since it would have decreased the town number down to 4 rather then 5 from the night action turn over (2 scum left, do the math). It's clear, 3 p mafia is what we are dealing with.

[DTMaster]

1. Jahduo. Scum passing on me means lots since UK suspected that I lied. There's this awesome Fate gambit done in this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14737 - It's Always Sunny Mafia

Fate claimed Beloved Princess when he was a Bullet Proof role. Hint hint hint. Fake claim gambit. It also means that they rather use me as a mislynch rather then gamble at the chance that I lied.

2. You know something's been bothering me with the Vezok/UK bussing theory. Logically, if this was true, I'd expect UK to live rather then Vezok in terms of reputation and posting ability. What I'm more worried about now is giving Vezok the hammer tomorrow rather then thinking he's scum. He's just the perfect townie for scum in my honest opinion. The whole Vezok/UK argument dynamic doesn't make sense for scum bussing each other. Especially since we should be thinking in terms of yesterday:

7 Players 2:5 scum:town. If we mislynched and they shot me, it would go to 2:4 -> 2:3- > 2:2. Yesterday is instant scum win assuming Vezok-town. And My gut says Vezok is town.
There's no statistical difference between shoot me/lynching me if we did lynch scum, (1:5 -> 1:4 -> 1:3 assuming I died or 1:5 -> 1:4). Scum still gets 3 SCUM DERIVED KILLS. This will be important in the end game to note.

Now for the Gamma angle.

[DTMaster]

Also I find the lack of multi scum hunting disturbing. Jahduo gets lots of points for that. In my original list I had a scum-gut feeling about you, but you're the only one at the moment that's scumhunting.

[DTMaster]

Gamma angle is just, ehhhh reads as obvious town. Hence the super wildcard. If Gamma is scum, I'll eat my hat (hehehehehehe remembers my first newbie game)

AGM. ZOMG I HAS RESPONSES. RESPOND NAO.

1.

I already answered this: cause magnus was acting scummy. And if you want to get technical and say, "oh, well if it's VV vs magnus who is worse," then that is a math question because it requires being comparative which I admitted I did not have time to do at the time.

Way back when I asked about M_O and why he had to deconstruct his cases for you. You do realize I wasn't talking about why it's VV vs M_O. I was trying to ask you. Back here:

If you're not holding him accountable for not posting, and there aren't any arguments against him because he hasn't posted, then HOW IS HE[Rhino] POSSIBLY SCUMMIER THAN VV. Especially when you haven't even DECONSTRUCTED THE VV CASE, so you don't even have anything to be comparative with.

I wanted to ask you why did M_O had to deconstruct two cases (Rhino and VV) to get his one case (Rhino) across? If you thought M_O was scummy, I can show you that you tied it largely to his lack of case breaking on VV. I don't understand why you made it into a: it must be RHINO OR VV and YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH SINCE YOU NEED TO DEFEND VV TO ATTACK RHINO.

There's no reasoning behind this. This reads as huge smokes and mirrors to drag M_O down into the pit while answering a bunch of questions defensively. Why this type of questioning? How does this question produce the results for your scum hunting so you can tell us that you thought M_O was scum at the time.

2.

Yes, VV has a history of sucking, but I also explained why what VV was doing wasn't just his usual suck-age - it had clear scum motivation. IN RETROSPECT HE HE ACTUALLY WAS JUST SUCKING AS USUAL, but at the time, it looked legit.

Are you talking about this game? Or last game with VV?

Break times.

[DTMaster]

BAH TAGS.

[DTMaster]

Bahhhh the too stupid to be true argument just entered my head. WHHHHRRRRYYYYYYY must this be complicated.

[DTMaster]

Um... Spyrex claimed the second kill Gamma. He claimed 1 shot vig. You're talking about a

third kill

and multiscum why?

[DTMaster]

Gammakitty - So you think UK is bussing. And you think Vezok is scum righttttt??????

[DTMaster]

I'm kind of shocked UK got lynched over Vezok. I think being away and this fast game might have changed something.

[DTMaster]

The order should be determined tomorrow. Mainly because it's fairly obvious given my town lists/potential suspects who I'd like to claim. Also:

1. Gamma I want to clarify. I mean multitasking in hunting scum and lynching me. I mistyped and now understand the confusion. The lack of general scum hunting hurtz.
2. Almaster. Yes
3. Vezok. Before you embark down that road, I'm a dude. I changed my avatar and gender to do a character soft claim. :p

It's a TARP.

[DTMaster]

I'mmmmm sad. I thought Gamma was scum at one point and was like, no wai. Paranoia aside, these kills aren't following optimal theory if Gamma was town. But you read as town. :<<<<<<

[DTMaster]

I love this line Gamma:

Booooo on all your NK WIFOM silliness.

I DUN WANNA DEAL WIT DAT.

D:.

[DTMaster]

:SADFACE: Both kittys were evil in this game. New policy. I will be the cat hunter and I will kill all kittens both in name and avatar now :d

[DTMaster]

Banelings are awesome though... :3

[DTMaster]

The plushie is oozing full of love. Also I need a new avatar. D: