Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Jack]

Greetings to the many people on the playerlist I have already played with, and looking forward to having a good time with those whom I have not. I have the following introductory questions:

1) Did you get the color you asked for?

2) You can N0 Vig anybody on the playerlist. Do you use your power? If so, who do you target?

3) If you knew you wouldn't be caught, would you cheat to win at a game where the only thing at stake was your reputation (e.g., if you win people think you are good at the game, if you lose people think you are not)?

4) You are playing a $100 game of ultimatum. In this game, the first player proposes how to divide the $100 between the two players, and the second player can either accept or reject this proposal. If the second player rejects, neither player receives anything. If the second player accepts, the money is split according to the proposal. You are the first player - how do you split the piles?

5) The same as question four, except now the game is being played with $1,000,000. How do you divide the money?

And

Vote: SensFan

for whining.

1. I don't remember if it was my first or not, but I know it was one of my top 2.
2. Since this game is thankfully lacking in VIs, I don't think I would N0 vig anyone on the list.
3. No.
4 and 5. Depends on who the second player is (i.e. if I know them/what relationship we have/what I know about their personality). But, if it is to be a complete stranger that I don't even get to observe, I would go 75/25 on the first one and 500,000/500,000 on the second one. The reason for the difference is that I don't care to be greedy with huge sums of money, but I wouldn't mind being greedy if I only stand to lose the opportunity to gain a small amount.


Don't have time at the moment to read the rest of the thread.

[Jack]

vote:tantsalas

[Jack]

Each color group has two town pr's. If scum know who's in what color group and two vanilla townies have died in one group, they can easily knock out the pr's.

^^^having written this, I have no idea where I got it and can't find it in the sign up thread.

[Jack]

@SpyreX: Maybe I'm dumb or I missed it, but could you re-explain why you didn't submit town/town instead of town/sk if you wanted to be town?

I said, and I'm pretty sure you quoted it, I went "I want to be town, but SK could be a hoot as a backup" thus.

That doesn't make any sense. Picking orange 2nd is obviously just a throwaway choice. So did you lie about the color choice?

[Jack]

Awesome, there's a tantsalas wagon.

Also thanks andrius, glad to know I'm not hallucinating things.

[Jack]

p-edit(2) - Yeah there is a wagon on me, did you really not realize that? I'm really not sure why there is, well, I know Katsuki always votes me, SpyreX voted me for some reason he doesn't want to share and I think I addressed everyone else's concerns, but I guess not satisfactorily

I guess not, SCUM.

[Jack]

I read sens in ISO, it seems like he's town then. Or else it was an awesome planned gambit with believable acting.

[Jack]

Welp, assuming sens is telling the truth I don't even have to ask my question because this game obviously doesn't follow the same methodology that others of this variant would. Considering I'm not the only one who has ran

draft variants

here and I'm prettyyyyy sure that none of them would give out things if they weren't picked (like SK for example ohhh shiii) well then the like I said albeit small help in knowing orange isn't there isn't there at all.

What relevance does pyp have? Is that what you were referring to?

@Everyone voting for Spyrex – I’d like to know how his mind-bogglingly strange logic regarding choosing Orange as a second color and it being meaningful (which appears to be from a misunderstanding of how roles would be distributed) is in any way a scum-tell.

He picked scum colors and then had to lie about his colors, and didn't think it through in the way you would if you were actually picking.

Further I suggest from what I know about SSBF I would doubt taking the scum route would be his logical choice of action. Given how he felt about his SK role in Clash of Kings Mafia him throwing Orange as a color choice feels very unlikely.

This is interesting.

[Jack]

@xvart -

Well, on the fly, this is what I thought: First I recognized the 'Would like to be Town/would see some fun in being SK as well'. Second, if the only pick for Orange out of everyone's two picks was someone's second choice that's almost certainly where it would go/what would happen. So if you don't get it as a second choice means someone chose it above you and presumably got it. Assuming Spy thought that SK would only be given to a request for Orange, that makes sense. Not that it's flawless logic given things like the fact that the plan seems to have been to give out Orange come hell or high water, but it's not without some degree of thought behind it.

So you don't think that with SpyreX's knowledge and experience with draft games and pick your alignment games he wouldn't know better?

If you can point out any scum motivation I'm all ears. I'm not saying it should be taken as a Towntell empirically (though I certainly don't find it scummifies SpyreX), but I fail to see any scum motivation here. Again.

This is craziness. The choices are RANKED. If you put SK in the second slot the ONLY way you will get it is if NO ONE picks it. I even said, when I picked it first, "I hope I'm one of the dozen players who put it first who gets it". It's extremely obvious that at least one person will have put it in first place.

SCUM ******** MOTIVATION SRCOUADELDOEDUSA.PKDJ DK NONSENSE

It's a scum MISTAKE. Scum has no motivation to make mistakes obv, but that's a ridiculous defense.

[Jack]

I didn't really read tantslas last post but I can buy that he just invents wacky theories and believes them.

unvote, vote:SpyreX

Don't see this as SK hunting, far from it. SK doesn't need to lie about colors.

Does anyone have more on the SSBF supposedly hating scum/sk meta?

[Jack]

uh oh vi has noticed my noticeably lacking precense

time for excuses

another thread has made me rage so much that i cant post in here without it spilling over

and i cant let it spill it over here

the dissonance from this post alone is making my head hurt

it hurts make it stop
no you make it stop you have the power
i cant i cant i cant i cant

vi wweewew

werwerr we arre gvotingn kkkkkkdub why do u care

This looks horribly wrong.

*TAUNTS FATE LALALALALLALAA*

[Jack]

oh hey guys did u hear that

vi says im sk bc of the anticapslockalliance
and bc i made a case on a scummy player

lol yea this is totes sk behavior
vi youre about one hundred times less good at mafia than you seem to think you are

How do you feel about getting caught when you're mafia xreck? Do you hate it?

[Jack]

That kind of thing is generally boring.

[Jack]

I won't claim my colors (the second one anyway).

[Jack]

A reason why color claiming is BAD:

There is at least one member of each of the six factions listed besides Orange that has no abilities on its own.

Presuming this means there is a "VT" color, once somebody flips VT, scum will now know everyone who claimed that color is VT, which will make it much easier for them to hunt PRs.

Doesn't that just mean orange is sk and thus not vt?

[Jack]

Lynch list:
spyrex
xreck

[Jack]

"The role you love receiving"

Dayvig. Someday, I will have the power and rule with an iron fist.

Of love

ATM- not scum or 3rd party.

Something I've never been is always fun.

Mason and vengeful townie are my favorites.

VT or Vig. Generally dislike scum. Third party has some but not all of the stress of being Mafia and is overall pretty fun as well.

+1

Also +1 to new avatar.

I'd love to be a Serial Killer Vig or Cop again.

PoA player list

Night 1: xvart the Speaker of the House part of the Legislature was talked to death (OTHER)
Night 2: Jack, Grassroots Organizer, the Vanilla Townie was talked to death. (TOWN)
Night 5: Plum, Contractor, the Town Universal Backup took 9999 damage. (TOWN)

Wiki pages

*banner that says he prefers vigilante*

I prefer scum, as I can control the flow of the game more.

Andrius greatly enjoys having another player to bounce ideas off of, and generally likes the concept of hydras, though what he really supports is Neighbors and Masons, which are his favorite role. After all, nothing is quite as cool as having another player as confirmed town to talk to (and rant about all the crap going on in-thread).

"Scum vs Town"

I learn, in my scumgames, that I play anti-town SHITTY.
So, I choose town whenever possible (Comedy of Whims).

I learn that I play better when I don't spam the threads, and I just post once a day, in incredibly active games.

Scum is fun, yes, but stressful as hell.

"GTKAS--MagnaOfIllusion"

Favorite PR – Tough question. I prefer complex roles or roles that are challenging to play. If I had to pick a vanilla role that I liked best I would probably say Serial Killer.

My favorite role of all-time (and this is over about 70 forums games here and on another site) is the following –

Paparrazi – A Town Modified Cop role. Each night I could take a picture of any player I chose. If successful that picture goes into my stock of blackmail material. The pictures had two uses. First at any time during the day I could PM the Mod and ‘blackmail’ any player I chose. I would lose that picture from my stock and take hidden control of their vote for the rest of the day phase (changes made via PM). Second if I was ever Nightkilled the Mod would publicly confirm, at the start of the next Day phase, if any of the players who I had remaining photos of in my stock were Mafia.

"GTKAS--Starbuck"

3. I prefer being scum because I always seem to pull the role of Vanilla Townie when I'm town and apparently I have a scummy town meta.

Comedy of Whims player list (which I gather was choose your side?)

AlmasterGM, God, Third Party, fulfilled his win condition and won the game, along with Andrius.
Andrius, Stephen Gevanni, Third Party, fulfilled his win condition and won the game, along with AlmasterGM.
MagnaofIllusion, Randall "Pink" Floyd, Third Party, was shot in the head on Night 1.
Super Smash Bros. Fan, Mega Man, Town, was damned to hell in the endgame.

That took too long.

Starbuck quote makes her a good lynch.
I wish AGar wasn't in a hydra...but still.

[Jack]

Speaking of zero offense... would anyone mind terribly if I day vig'd Dekes, the useless pile of slug dung?

Save it for someone scummy if you have one.

[Jack]

Spy, sens has the whole claiming he went for scum but didn't get it thing. Although I do think him saying he went red/orange is weird. SSBF meta would still be interesting.

But I want to go with starbuck now.

unvote, vote:Starbuck

[Jack]

Also, the fact that you're voting me because you don't think SSBF would have submitted Scum is pretty laughable, if I read that right. It's also something I'm completely unable to defend or explain, FWIW.

I don't feel the story you are floating that SSBF would include Orange, a Serial Killer color, in his choices after his experience in Clash of Kings makes any sense. Go read SSBF's comments post game in Clash of Kings and make an argument my thoughts are invalid.

Your inability to speak for him doesn't mean I can't question what I see as a potential lie.

That being said, I felt really unsatisfied about my play here as well. Lurking under pressure throughout the majority of this game when I was alive was easily my worst decision in this game. For some reason, I loss almost all of my interest in the game that I had at the beginning and at times, I considered replacing out, but I didn't have the heart to do so. I need to seriously learn from this game and quit lurking under pressure in all future games I'm in. That combined with my other numerous scum tells that made it obvious that I was not tell really tells me that I played badly in this game and could have done so much better.

I also apoligize for showing disrespectful to the mods, the game, and the players a few times by having to be prodded three times and nearly getting mod-killed over basically quoting my Role PM. This will never happen again intentionally, that is a promise.

@Everyone else: The next time I'm a SK, I don't want to fail as much as I did in this game. Do you have any suggestions on how I can improve my play in here as a SK and a player as a whole?

This is his post game comment.

@Spy: wanting to be scum and submitting both types of scum seems different

[Jack]

Add any preferences you remember or can find.

[Jack]

Can someone give me a worth it/not worth it on reading pages 2-7?

[Jack]

npia's reaction was scummy. And he said he picked based on preference for color, and I doubt his favorite colors are indigo and violet.

[Jack]

Fair enough, I've never played in a hydra but I can see town being way more fun.

[Jack]

npia's reaction was scummy. And he said he picked based on preference for color, and I doubt his favorite colors are indigo and violet.

I suppose his favorite colors can't be Blue and Green though, right?

Why would you suppose that? /plays stupid

It is true that blue and green are the most popular colors, red is the third, even going by his word makes him somewhat more likely to be scum I think. But really ny possibly bogus explanation for color choice catches my eye.

[Jack]

sigh why do you always leave me reck i ish heartbroken you never did care for me did youuuuuuuu
bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


@Vi: By spyspy wagon I meant the one in the early pages where people piled onto him for his choice of orange despite the explanations. It's just so easy imo for scum to go like

"OMG YOU CLAIMED ORANGE SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM /VOTE"

with the guise of looking town.
Which is also somewhat my reasoning for the reck votes that accumulated shortly after your analysis calling reck SK.

How is that in any way what happened?

[Jack]

AGM DID YOU JUST FUCKING CLAIM A RING AND A POWER ROLE FOR NO GODDAMN REASON?


good lord this game without caps wa sa nightmare

fos:fate

[Jack]

I'd forgotten about that dram quote.

Starbuck hasn't said anything about the SK ring hunting in either thread that I can see.

[Jack]

@Dekes: Fate, reck and I are alignment confirmed masons.

If you want a list.

TOWN:

Katsuki
Fate
Reck

I KNOW HOW THIS WORKS NOW

ONE OF YOU IS SCUM

[Jack]

Interesting that some people seem to have no idea what a large part of the starbuck wagon is about.

fos:katsuki

Spy, your attacks on xvart are bad.

[Jack]

Someone needs to dumb it down then since I obviously am one of those people who have no idea.

Yes.

[Jack]

There is a cult, but it's no concern to the town.

[Jack]

Yes. We should put more steam behind the starbuck lynch.

[Jack]

@nopoint: something's missing from that post

p-edit: 518

[Jack]

scum list:
starbuck
nopoint
katsuki

icky list:
xreck
spyrex

[Jack]

523 makes sense, people are absent and have explanations for it.

525 is apparently...responding to being on a scum list by repeating the "why I can't post now" talk? Yeah.

[Jack]

Better than making a scum list without explanation Jack

You're scum too, and haven't been reading.

[Jack]

Although I don't like plum's lack of comments on other stuff, kdub's bit on her is bogus as hell.

[Jack]

Fate how come you aren't playing normally?

[Jack]

The quote that MoI claimed meant ssbf would never send in sk or scum turned out to say nothing of the sort.

setup breaking is boring and lame.

[Jack]

setup breaking is boring and lame.

But does it work?

Not if I can help it.

Jack, I know you're a man of few words, but if you're going to call a case bogus with no explanation, it is not furthering the discussion in any way.

I voted tans, and backed off because I got the impression he believed his crazy stuff. It's not scummy that's how the game works. You think people are scum and then get a town feel or sometimes not.

[Jack]

Jack, if setup breaking provides the best town win chance, that's the route we have to take. It's irrational and scrub behaviour to not take the best route to winning, simply because of some arbitrary notion of 'fun'.

Well I don't know what scrub behavior would be.

But there's obviously no "have to". And it's obviously not irrational--wanting to have fun is not irrational, and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't irrational either, jesus-hater. Irrational is a much abused word. It means "not consistent with or using reason". But rational can mean "intellectual, thoughts and logic instead of feelings" and so people use irrational to refer to basing decisions off of emotions. But that's obviously a misuse of the word. It's perfectly consistent with reason to want to maximize enjoyment of a game.

Diving in the penalty box may give your team the best chance at winning, but would you really argue that they "have to" and that it's irrational not to?

Trying to break the setup is like saying to the mafia "you're too good for me to catch you by scumhunting".

Correction:

Would

it work?

I haven't read it very closely.

[Jack]

There's no debate. It's a debate if Jack says "Sens is wrong that it will lead to a higher town winrate, because of (a), (b), (c)." If Jack is saying "I don't know or care if Sens is right about a higher town winrate if we go that route, but I'm against it", then he must be unconcerned about town win chances, and therefore Scum.

What if Sens say "self hammering on page 7 gives me a lower SK winrate, but I'm for it"? Does being unconcerned about the SK win rate make him town?

[Jack]

If Sens is not willing to do whatever would give SensSK the highest winrate, Sens is presumably not SK. He could be Mafia or Town, and of course there's a significant difference between the two.

Screw it. Hammertime.

Unvote, Vote: Sens

SensFan -Prince Humperdink - Serial Killer - Lynched day 1

[Jack]

Well, I find plum somewhat scummy so I'm not going to argue about it.

[Jack]

Reasonable and correct, but scummy.

p-edit:@plum's post

[Jack]

That question was there specifically to get an answer out of Jack.
(I reworded it because after seeing his answer I thought "No way he just said he would deliberately obstruct a massclaim".)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2298343

[Jack]

@Jack: Do you have comment what so ever on your apparent slip that you put Orange first, but earlier mentioned you couldn't recall which color you put first or second but knew you got one of them? You seemed to completely ignore my post, so I wanted to give you another opportunity.

Maybe later.

[Jack]

Cool stuff. Rec admits to bussing his partner!
How did Jack claim scum? o_0

Something about them finding my answers to alm's questions scummy. What do you think of them?

[Jack]

I suppose nopoint is scum regardless.

But if you check and see my answers to almaster were just cut and paste from nopoint. So no slip.

[Jack]

wacky. I remembered it as nopoint for some unknown reason. It was kagelord.

[Jack]

LOOOOL he did copy and paste.

L. O. L.

Why didn't you notice btw?

[Jack]

scum list:
starbuck
nopoint
kats
fate

Also, I'm trying to remember where I'm getting this idea that dramonic said he prefers scum somewhere.

[Jack]

Toog, Jack doesn't HAVE a meta. He once said he purposefully plays so that meta cannot work on him. (Something I once attempted to replicate.)

my god, where did I say that? That must have been a long time ago or I was messing with someone.

[Jack]

lol

You voted me, ergo you are scum.

[Jack]

Greek Mythos.
Back when Iece and Vas attempted to meta EVERYONE.

NO U /had to

When I'm scum, I hope people will believe that.

[Jack]

Starbuck should have been lynched by now.

[Jack]

hmm, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if sens was scum.

Kage is scum too, check his post history and see how much he posts elsewhere compared to here.

[Jack]

I would love to be the sk in this game...no such luck however.

What do you think about the idea that hydra's won't choose scum? It makes sense to me although I've never hydra'd.

[Jack]

I'm inclined to trust xreck on his dram read.

[Jack]

hmm, I forgot about plum. In an effort to get my list up to 8 people

starbuck
nopoint
kats (don't even remember why??)
fate
plum
kagelord
the stove (should reread, but I discounted him based on the hydra thing which seems like a bad reason in retrospect)
dram (from xreck)

Don't understand why MoI and KK would be scum by default.

[Jack]

Jack you forgot Guderian.

I'm studiously ignoring guderian because the last time I played with him he was actually someone else for a hazily define stretch of time.

[Jack]

shades of : http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2414884

[Jack]

Smells the same.

[Jack]

refute THAT

[Jack]

I didn't like starbucks "post 5 times about how I can't post" schtick either.

[Jack]

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

It was very pro town.

[Jack]

Either they believe it or not, but don't answer every one of them in detail again and again...that and calling for a Jack lynch over some ridiculous C/P-spiel make my spider-sense tingle.

Again, give me a reason why thats a town move (and, hint, some of the whole color business which I am ACTIVELY a part of was there) and I'll drop it. Until then lol, Jack is going to piss me off.

Last time I did it, the scum who was asking the question went through them all and did some bs reads and didn't notice that I'd copy pasted. Also I don't like answering the questions or arguing about why not.

[Jack]

I'm not caring too much for the Starbuck wagon. It feels like it's too easy - wagon someone for preferring scum, speculating about flavor, and before they have posted content to analyze. Giver her a chance to catch up first at least, then see what she has to say.

Starbuck is not the lynch today, barring any revelations. There is no good reason for Reck to be faking having town info on her right now.

schkt.

[Jack]

Guderian doesn't seem scummy.

[Jack]

Don't fail fate.

AlmG is referred to nopoint with "he's probably town" and going back to his main suspect sensfan.

fos:fate

[Jack]

"my favorite groups from the books are not the scum ones" is the defense I was expecting if you were town. eh.

I will pick a new candidate for today

unvote

[Jack]

Can someone give me some background on the Guderian case while I eat?

It's a random crappy wagon that scum are on.

[Jack]

Surprised gud was scum.

Not surprised dram was scum.

nopoint, kdub, and are probably scum.

Steph is acting scummy.

[Jack]

Describe how I am "acting scummy", please?

Let's just say your posts haven't exactly given you any townpoints.

[Jack]

Kats was scummy yesterday and that's good evidence, there were only three deaths though. Kats should claim.

[Jack]

Ahh yeah I see. Spy could be rolefishing but Imma claim anyways cuz I'm kinda safe. I breadcrumbed it I'm a hider and I have no idea why I'm not dead yet.

Why do you have no idea why you aren't dead yet?

[Jack]

If kats isn't in the masonry, then the recruitment failed aka he is mafia?

[Jack]

Hiding behind Vi seems like a wacked out strategy anyway, though I've never really understood that role.

He claimed it with knowledge of the kill but he may have been worried about being tracked.

[Jack]

I'll doc you tonight fate.

[Jack]

I'm going to keep my vote off and let scum decide which of kats and nopoint we lynch.

[Jack]

I'll vig fate tonight.

[Jack]

I'm just going to let other people handle today.

[Jack]

I don't understand how nopoint was deduced as town, all I remember seeing was the claim that he really was a hider.

[Jack]

It's probably true that we're much better off lynching Sens.

But ohhhhh on that slightest chance that if we did he flipped town, nope can't do that.

[Jack]

I enjoyed the game and think you are all wonderful.

[Jack]

It seems like winter is on it's way out, we had an almost warm day here, very nice and comfortable.

[Jack]

There is a cult, but it's no concern to the town.

So right and yet SO WRONG

[Jack]