DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[AurorusVox]

/confim

FoS SocioPath for saying "Conform" - sounds like he wants to conform, i.e. be the same as everyone else, i.e. be equal to everyone else, i.e. is a dirty commie bastard.

Jed I desperately need to ask which ALT you are?

[AurorusVox]

Ah, Jed, the way you were talking I thought you were an alt from the previous DEFCON game :p

[AurorusVox]

Internet Stranger: Problem with that is that you need to identify in-thread who is going to pick what in order to minisimise the risk of a bunch of townies going for the same role and allowing scum to pick certain less desirable ones up.

Percy used Eavesdrop very well last game, despite the QTs being encoded, but it brought up so much WIFOM that it was very hard to use reliably. I still think it'd be a useful ability for the town, but it wasn't as hardcore as I thought it would be.

[AurorusVox]

That was my point by "Problem with that" ._.

[AurorusVox]

Claiming that you're looking forwards to your nuke is like claiming VT* at this stage. I reckon it's a good idea to not go around telling the scum whether we're looking to get a different PR or not.

*I understand nukers aren't VTs, but in terms of defaults...new basic line, you get my drift

[AurorusVox]

I took a scum suited ability last game...but none of the scum even tried to get it. They all went Sub/Nuke. FML.

That said, a bunch of abilities have been rebalanced to give the scum an advantage in going for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if we had a tussle on our hands. If only one person goes for each scum ability, the drawback is that if that one person doesn't get it, scum will. If multiple people do, the drawback is (a) lets scum mingle with town for WIFOM "Oh no I picked it because I'm town," and (b) scum might just go Sub/Nuke again thereby wasting townie powers.

(With regards to (a), I really did pick it for town justice. I have no idea how legitimate a strategy it was since I died before it even became an issue.)

As I said in the last game, it's a case of do you want to try to be more powerful yourself or block the other team from being more powerful. Offence vs defence. Waiting to have sex with the really hot girl vs cockblocking your friend so he is as miserable as you. That sort of thing.

[AurorusVox]

or VIs have our best powers.

Aw fuck now I'm terrified.

Fun to read the ALLCAPSWAR but I can't even remember what they were arguing about anymore. Fate was shouting at Chess for being Chess/shouting at Fate, and Chess was shouting at Fate for being Fate/shouting at Chess?

Since nukes are declared in thread, if someone does something clearly stupid they'll get punished for it. I'm all for people declaring who they want to nuke before doing it and getting discussion on it, but if folks are gonna nuke without discussion, nukes are gonna fly without discussion, and I don't think you can realistically expect to police it now that the games gotten so much bigger. Did someone say there'll be at least ten town nukes? There'll be at least ten itchy fingers.

Not to mention: nukes can be recalled, so sending a nuke off to (hopefully) bomb the Russians* or the Chinese still gives time for people to plead their case against it and/or other people to bitch at the nuker and argue against the inbound nuke.

*(like a boss)

[AurorusVox]

RE: A vet of the last game, true, but I didn't make it to nuke-town. I died before DEFCON 1. Reading in the QT was probably quite different from reading in thread. Umm, I bounced a tonne of tinfoil theories around, so one of them was right.

Oh yeah, one of the smartest moves was nuking instead of lynching at some point (can't remember the specifics now) which gave town an extra lynch. I think something like this happened, maybe Faraday or VV can fill in more since they were still alive?

[AurorusVox]

Nukes can be recalled, so sending a nuke off still gives time for people to plead their case against it and/or other people to bitch at the nuker and argue against the inbound nuke.

Was it that hard to just read it like that? =_="

I get that your argument with Chess is more than the summary. I think you raise a good point about Chess declaring your list all-town but I disagree with you that probability has no place in mafia. So probability-wise, your list was 5 people strong, or something? So at least one of them is probability-wise likely to be mafia. So you're both wrong. Better?

---

I think whether we grab town abilities or block scum abilities ought to be up to each individual player. Scum are able to co-ordinate secretly, and us doing it in-thread only helps them more.

[AurorusVox]

^
In that case, you'll be justifying your own FIRE AND BLOOD so it's all swings and roundabouts really.

[AurorusVox]

This sounds so much like pro-scum chaos to me. The town can (and WILL) simply enforce lawful nuking at the end of a rope! The sign clearly reads:

NO NUKING WITHOUT DISCUSSION AND VOTING. VIOLATORS WILL BE PUBLICLY HUNG.

My point is that we should be thinking of ways to deal with the inevitable slew of people (who WON'T all be scum) who decide to nuke without discussion. If you blanket say you want to lynch everyone who nukes without discussion, then that's about half the game so far who have said they don't care for rules and restrictions. Sounds like you either (a) are incredibly naieve or (b) setting up to policy lynch half the game. What I propose is that if people nuke without discussion, then they need to be able to back up WHY with a decent explanation. Like Faraday said - saying why doesn't make it not-scummy. Saying why might explain it, it might not. In the case of the latter,

then

we can talk "violators will be publicly hung."

[AurorusVox]

JC: I still think its naieve to think that trying to control nukes will only catch scum. If someone can give a good reason for their launch AFTER it's been sent, do you think they still need the rope? And if they do need to be hung, doesn't this ruin the current wagon?

[AurorusVox]

JC: I still think its naieve to think that trying to control nukes will only catch scum.

This is totally misrep.

If it's NOT a plan to catch scum, then what's its purpose? It's going to zap VIs and townies who don't care and just want to send off a nuke, which is another way of saying it's a mass-Policy Lynch and will harm town more than scum.

I understand your reservation, and it CAN be used as an effective second lynch (as we discussed earlier, it was used to this effect in DEFCON 1.0), but my problem is this idea of yours that you can somehow guide nukes when many people have said they won't pay attention, and that we should lynch anyone who disobeys, since IMO these people are unlikely to be scum.

[AurorusVox]

Percy:
- What if that person presents a very good argument for why they think their target is scum, that you happen to agree with, but half the town disagree with; do you then go after their lynch?
- Do you, in any scenario of agreement, try to lynch this person above other people who may have made other scumslips not related to nuking other players?
- What do you make of the argument that VIs and uncaring townies are likelier to nuke sans sanctions, and that scum are likely to do the opposite?

[AurorusVox]

Jed: you do realise that putting Silo on your list is a viable option - i.e. if you want it in DEFENSIVE mode - right? I'm not sure how seriously to take this apparent ignorance; as in, I'm wondering if you were hoping that by hammering people over the head with the idea that there's no point in putting it on the list, you then wouldn't have to worry about your own scum-hoping-for-sub nukes getting shot down. I'm aware that's a bit of a wacky theory but what makes it less wacky is the fact that if you were part of a scumteam who all put Sub as their #1 choice, your "no unsanctioned nukes, control all nukes" strategy works well if you get the sub and can fire with no accountability.

[AurorusVox]

Sorry, I've been really busy the last few days. It's probably not going to be that much better over Christmas, but I'll try to stop by once a day.

Vote: JedCooper

I'd rather see Jed go than Dana, atm. The sheer number of posts seems like an overcompensation for something; and as Spy has pointed out, most of that is this "control the nukes" strategy that he seemed to push so hard that it looks disingenuous to me now that he's abandoned it. It looks like he tried to work himself out of the corner he had gotten himself stuck in, but did it too soon or too explicitly. If he'd stuck to his guns, I probably would have treated it as misguided or optimistic principles, but the "I'MA NUKE GANDALF" doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention, I have no idea why he'd say that if he was never intending to put Silo on his preference list.

As for Dana, I get that his "DEFCON 5 SUXX" vs "DEFCON 4 WOO CONTENT" seemed arbitrary, which I think is a legitimate point against him, but I don't think it's as strong as Jed's insistence on/dropping of his strategy combo.

Did we ever agree about Sub claiming or not? I don't think that town should fear outing themselves as having it, as they don't really need to hide their kills.

[AurorusVox]

FOS:aurorus

745 is scummy

Care to give a bit more detail about this?

[AurorusVox]

IS: what do you think they tell us? I can't make heads or tails of them in any real sense to be quite honest.

[AurorusVox]

IS: Furry as Panda could work; could also be "sounds like" Fara[da]y. Could be neither. I think until we see some more drops, this ones hard to pin.

Bob: with two scum teams, your point is a poor one.

Fate: I've been a minimal poster so far due to minimal free time on my part (I believe I said this earlier). Also, bare in mind that RC made a very similar "full" analysis of the previous DEFCON game when he replaced in D1. He was scum then, so I'd be wary of treating his commitment as a solid towntell.

[AurorusVox]

dana, explain your jed vote.

Jack, explain your AV vote.

Oh herpderp hypocrisy what?

---

Percy: I don't think that Jed wanting to control nukes makes him scummy. I think him folding on it makes him scummy. If you think it is pro-town for him to want to control nukes, what do you make of him saying "Fuck this shit, I'll happily nuke Gandalf", especially considering that he has explicitly stated that he doesn't want a silo anywhere on his ten-strong preference list? I also made it clear that I thought that IF he'd stuck to his guns then I'd have found him more pro-town. And yes, I treat logical inconstancies as scumtells. Holding people to a standard of consistency is a great way of catching scum who aren't honest about their intentions.

[AurorusVox]

What a surprise that Jack's now piggybacking off of Percy's argument. That's a direct avoidance of my question twice now, on top of hypocrisy about someone else not providing reasons. If you agree with everything Percy said, then you can answer my question to him in my previous post as well.

[AurorusVox]

"He posts so much, he must be scum" is one of the most terrible arguments ever [...]

And then there's a wishy-washy position on dana before talking about sub claiming, which is nothing but a distraction.

Whoops, drunkposting last night and did not respond to these parts.

(1) I think that's a misrep about my "terrible argument" - I know high post count does not indicate scum, but it seems like in Jed's case this sheer volume is the explicit and extreme attempt to

look

awesometownie (a subtler version of IS's persistent patriotism); as I said, it seems to be overcompensating.

(2) I don't think I was wishy-washy on Dana. I was commenting on his wagon. Dana was/is not my #1 suspect but I can see the merits of the wagon against him. I don't use FoS'es but if it clarifies, I would have FoS'd at that point, which is to say I'd have voted him but for Jed.

(3) Well I figured that if we wanted the sub to claim we probably ought to say so, so that scum doesn't keep quiet and then later on say "Oh yeah I have the sub sorry didn't realise I was meant to out myself."

[AurorusVox]

- Piggybacking I don't mind so much if you're willing to explain your reasons in your own words, since not everyone's going to have a unique reason for finding people scummy
- I intensely dislike people avoiding questions and think it's a solid scumtell
- I also treat hypocrisy as a scumtell; i.e. if you treat something as more important when you're on the offence than when it concerns you, then your clearly being sneaky about your true thoughts on how important it is

I've given you plenty of chances to answer my simple question. This is the third time you've ignored it.

Vote: Jack

[AurorusVox]

See above.

[AurorusVox]

Katsuki; you think Bob came off worse than Jack in that little exchange?

[AurorusVox]

Scumclaim wtf?

Vote: Toog

Sorry I've been MIA I've come down with the flu. This is my brief catchup post before I catch a train home...

RedCoyote/Bunnylover; why no Toog vote? If he's town, what reason at all would he have to claim scum? I see that Fate takes a lot out of you but come on, if he's town that's just a stupid thing to do. I mean, as scum its a stupid thing to do but hey, we get a scumlynch D1 so I'm not complaining.

Percy; so are you saying that as scum he'd have been more likely to stick to his position, i.e. NOT give up on the plan, and that his decision to nukebbq Gandalf was entirely without malicious scum intent? I can understand that inconsistency comes out of frustration, but I've used inconsistencies many a time to catch scum (it's my favourite method), and that frustration can easily come from scum who are getting backed into a corner. If it is as you say - "No one's listening to me, I'll just do as I please!" then Jed wasn't as committed to the control-nuke plan as he proposed. Which looks to me like that was sneaky sneaky lying, or him parading as pro-town. This is why I think his shift is likelier scum motivated than town motivated.

[AurorusVox]

--My train got cancelled. I'm not going home for Christmas. Sadness

I'm nuking gandalf ASAP. Game with nukes ===> I don't have to post cases

This is the wrong mindset, my god. I think that yeah, nukes are fine to fire on your own accord, but you have to be prepared to back up why when questioned. Percy's case on you is rocksolid though so I doubt you'll ever get to launch.

Oh btw, Percy; I would have said sub should claim...looks like he did that already tho.

Dana's play (including his "who's going to be stupid enough to vote Toog over Fate?") also now looks deliciously scummy in the new post-toog-scumclaim context. Chess has said Dana is definite town...if there's a chess/dana/toog scumteam, we have been blessed.

[AurorusVox]

AV, the reason I didn't vote is because it wasn't too hard to guess that this would happen. Like dana said, it was fairly easy to read it as though he was being sarcastic. In a real way it looks as though he wanted to be through with the game, but, you know, replacing out would've been nice.

Leaving him alive let far too much WIFOM into the game. You can't say that allowing someone to live after they claim scum is anything but a bad idea. Maximum of five people would have KNOWN he was lying (1x Toog, 1x Sub, 3x Chinese scum) and I think people who stayed away from what they KNEW was a mislynch is pretty likely.

---

I still like Percy's case on Chess. It was pretty comprehensive and I haven't seen anything from Chess to defend against it.

Vote: Chesskid

[AurorusVox]

He didn't say that though. He said "I'm scum."

And no one other than those five named people would know he was "an American who offered himself on a silver platter" - I am none of those five, and I believed he was giving up as scum (I've seen something similar happen twice in one game).

And in any case, I wasn't telling you to vote Toog. I was asking why you weren't and explaining why I was surprised that you hadn't.

[AurorusVox]

Are you calling his vote an OMGUS?

[AurorusVox]

Bunny/Socio:
I left Russia out because the Russians would not

know

if he was town or scum (which was the point I was making). Seems pretty obvious to me?

[AurorusVox]

"If Fate is scum, he will be doing a good job of weeding out the other scum team"
- Do you think Fate is scum?

- Bobs, in your read, is IS scum because of his American play-style? How is this different from regular finding playstyle scummy?

- RC, fine. Unfortunately, I think people who flat-out ignored the presence of the claim are likeliest "scum who knew it was a lie", but there's little way of finding out who these people are since everyone who posted acknowledged it in some way.

[AurorusVox]

Well, if you want to push me, that's your prerogative. I'm thinking it's boiling down to a political disagreement between us, especially because, aside from this issue, I think we've been pretty much on the same page all game.

May I ask why you haven't voted yet though?

Sorry, my point was I

don't

think that you're the "scum who knew it was a lie", i.e. I'm happy to drop it. Also I voted Chesskid I ._."

---

This kind of post seems like fanning the flames here. We have Fate, who seems to lock on with all caps and get his lynch, and AV, prodding dana to oppose Fate. I don't like it.

It seems like Dana is calling it an OMGUS. But he hasn't said that, he's danced around it. I want to hear him clarify, which he still hasn't done. If he's calling him out on OMGUS, he should have the balls to go the full way - otherwise he just looks sneaky.

As far as Jed goes, I think if he'd carried on that I'd have found him pro-town; but he was under pressure from more than just Gandalf about it and backed down. If he'd been fully behind the idea, he'd at least have taken back his "rash" frustration, or never caved in the first place. I don't think we'll ever agree on this though, but if you think me explaining some more will help, I'll keep trying.

---

I'm siding with Fate/Spy on this one. You can't go "TOWN vs TOWN or SCUM BUDDIES" to "TOWN vs SCUM" without explaining exactly what changed. "I forgot" looks like a piss poor excuse. I mean, IS, your analogy would work IF Bunny had explained the change but he hasn't. He's gone for the "hope to get out of jail free card" with "My mistake" / "I forgot" / "I typo'd"...explaining inconsistency with inconsistency? No thanks.

Vote: Bunnylover

Still interested in a Chess lynch.

[AurorusVox]

I never said it was a typo, because their is no typo.

I messed up. I thought I said it was a T v.s. S or a S v.s. S.

^That's calling it a typo.
Then this:

I understand what everyone means by me saying its a Typo.

I would either have to explain that I did a typo

>_<"

---

bunnylover
chesskid3
danakillsu

Vox, who do I trust out of Group 2?

Not bunny, he's scum.
Earlier, I'd have said not to trust chess either (see Percy's case on him), but his recent willingness to get nuked doesn't strike me as scum motivated at all, since 1-for-1 trades are no good for scum. I guess Chess is the kind of person who could slip up and seem not-town regardless of his alignment and let people build tight cases on him, so I'm leaning more town than I was earlier, based on this more recent play. He took Fail-safe though, which I don't like. To be cautious I'd put him in a "see what happens tomorrow" camp.
Dana seemed to give up ("fine, I'm not important, lynch me") which seems a little false considering she HAS been fighting against her lynch, and she painted her Jed vote as worthless and unimportant (despite having a FoS on Fate and having previously voted Fate, a scum read? No thanks). She also distanced from the toog hammer vote ("I don't think he's scum, but I'll hammer because everyone else does") which again, I didn't like.

Put it [LEAST] Bunny --- Dana --- Chess [MOST] but that by no means is to say you should trust any of them.

[AurorusVox]

failsafe was like 4th or 5th on my list, btw. Was kind of surprised when I got it

4th

or

5th? It's going to be important that you know where you put it if it comes down to checking the authenticity of your order claim. If anyone had Failsafe higher than 4th they should speak up now. But seeing that it was a low-option on your list - assuming that's true - I don't feel so bad about you having it.

[AurorusVox]

I'll go dig up my list when I'm about to die.

Also if i'm the most trusted out of the 3 people you had to choose from, why is your vote on me instead of one of them?

Its not. It's on Bunny. Who is the least trusted (Y)

Socio, if scum are getting nuked anyway they might as well automatically take someone down with them, right? If they nuked themselves its an omgus nuke that needs defending, but with Failsafe it's "oh sorry I can't even call it back herp derp oh also don't anyone else nuke me." It's a one-for-one trade IF they're already getting nuked and is far better for scum than just them getting fried. It's only different - and townie - in this particular case because Chess has turned around and said "Nuke me" explicitly himself.

[AurorusVox]

Chess: I was a little worried because imo Fail-Safe is a scum-suited ability and I thought anyone who went after it would do so for nefarious means. But yes, you've used it in a pro-town way (offering to swap nukes). I had a lingering concern about an ability gambit, but since you've now come out and said you didn't even have Failsafe high on your list, I'm no longer treating it as particularly scummy.

Socio: if the original nuker is under pressure from other players about their nuke the scum could exploit this to get them to recall it. Someone who nukes their nuker is waving goodbye to that recall chance.

[AurorusVox]

Jack: Why not say that

before

you left? Why vote Bunny in the first place? Your unvote was only because you weren't up to speed on the game, not because you had a townie feeling (you can't have that feeling if you're not up to speed on the game) so don't try to retroactively give a reason of how you "knew better" than everyone else. Not even a little comment on Spy's nuke either?

Vote: Jack

---

Spy: I approve of your nuke. /nuke-dance

---

NK's: Extreme American rhetoric was American extremity after all. Surprised that RC took the Sub (and got it,

again

lol). Glad that it's out of scummunist hands, though.

[AurorusVox]

He's trying to gain town-cred for (claiming) having had a townie read on Bunny. I proved that according to his posts, he can't have had that read. Therefore he is lying and claiming reasons retroactively. I'd have said the same if he wasn't voting me.

[AurorusVox]

Also, Dana, do you approve of the nuke? Do you think anyone who nukes town should be lynched immediately?

[AurorusVox]

Uh, he said before his absence

And that's why I asked, if he had that feeling "before his absence" (meaning before he was unable to post), why he didn't state that feeling

back then

. He unvoted Bunny but didn't mention this feeling, which would have been a perfect time to do so. So I take that to mean he didn't think it

at that time

, a time at which he still needed to get up to speed. And if he

then

was able to read, and his mind did change because of it, he could have posted to tell us he thought Bunny was town. Unless it came after Bunny flipped town, in which case his reason for thinking Bunny was town was (drumroll) because Bunny had flipped town...in which case he's applying retroactive reasoning. Why would he do this unless it was to gain credit for something?

the way SpyreX talked when he sent out the nuke

So this is a playstyle thing?

---

NINJA EDIT:
Jack's responded:

- So now you're saying that you became uncomfortable with the Bunny wagon before you unvoted? Okay, but

why

was this not in your unvote post then? Would it have been hard to say "I think he's town, I'm gonna look more thoroughly at it" rather than some weak placeholder vote and "I need to catch up"? Could it have been because you knew it was a mislynch, and saw that you could slip off it and it would still go through?
- Doesn't the existence of previews mean you'd have seen SpyreX's nuke launch when you tried to post?

[AurorusVox]

On re-reading Kat, I notice he put Fate higher on his townlist than himself ._."

Faraday's nuke is consistent with his suspicions.
Faraday: you are "pretty confident" in your Jed(=Snake) town read, so what do you make of SpyreX's nuke?

[AurorusVox]

Fate has been using Dana to find her "scumbuddies" (Toog, IS), neither of whom have been scum. I'm glad Fate's nuking Dana...if he'd kept Dana alive past today I'd have been thinking gambity thoughts /nuke-dance

---

Multiple scumteams obviously means no one knows what's a mislynch and what isn't.

/gargantuan face-palm

Embarrassingly, I forgot this. I thought I'd caught you in a slip because I assumed there were nefarious reasons behind your unvote that were compounded by your first post today. But...since Bunny could have been the opposite scum to you, you'd have had no reason to conceal the reason for your unvote at the time, and you'd have no reason to lie about it now either.

Unvote

[AurorusVox]

how does multi scum groups affect your claim that my post today was lying to gain townie cred?

Because multi scum groups makes it less likely that you were lying about your unvote, and if you

weren't

lying about your unvote (i.e. it really was because you felt he was town) then you weren't retroactively trying to get town cred.

Couldn't scum who had just unvoted to get back to speed later claim it was because they thought he was town for town cred?

They could, but I think scum are likelier to lie consistently (lie about their unvote reasons, then lie about the lie) or not lie at all. But thanks for thinking that up, its not impossible.

Fate got AC'd...Interesting...

[AurorusVox]

If Dizzy nukes you and your FailSafe nukes her back, you still die right?

I don't really want to see Chess go at this point, since he seems fully prepared to 1-for-1 trade, which is not scummy. I don't mind lynching Dizzy but we should get her to nuke Dana if Dizzy is going to be our lynch. I don't particularly like that Dana took the Air Craft Carrier, since it looks far more scum suited than town suited. Dana, where on your list was the Carrier placed?

[AurorusVox]

=_=" Chess, I'm not saying don't have Dizzy lynched. My point is that we don't need to sacrifice the lynch that people want (and the biggest wagon was on Dana) to satisfy your tunnel-lynch when we have day vigs around.

[AurorusVox]

:::Scummiest:::
Dana
sociopath
Fate
SpyreX
:::towniest:::

Dizzy, I would point out that your question fails to take into account that Toog

claimed scum

.
Dana, don't feel like participating?

---

I think knowing InHim's alignment will be useful; if the nuke on Fate fails and inhim flips scum, we know Fate is likely scum. Either we go cautious, recall the nuke, and hope that we can successfully Espionage him.* (

Preferably

this option. I'll explain why in the alternative...)

...Or we just let him get nuked and risk losing a town-doctor. Now he's outed he's pretty screwed anyway, but letting scum kill him would work out better for us, I think, as there are two scum teams, and both might target him, which lowers the NKs. AND he'd get another protect off. Granted, he could still get roleblocked, but even this forces scum to decide whether to direct their attention at him or not. Espionage will help out in the event of neither scumteam killing him and ease the WIFOMspiral.

*Sociopath would obviously have to agree.

---

The fact there are three dropped quotes make it look like that could have been spammed which might imply they're fabricated to frame someone (or all people) who is (are) getting nuked. If we're treating them seriously, I think that they could be worked to apply to anyone who's getting nuked :\

[AurorusVox]

When the alternative is

nuking

the claimed doc, you think it's a waste?

Also, espionage tells you alignment, not role. Herpaderpa. Or are you suggesting you can't be scum?

[AurorusVox]

AV's PR direction is HELLA-bad. So is his "keep nuking the doc because if Inhimn is scum so is Fate" wait. WHAT?

I said I'd rather we didn't keep nuking him. But if he has to go and flips scum, why would he protect a non-buddy?

ALSO the fact that he says "or he could be roleblocked" HEY THE ROLEBLOCKER IS OUTED AND CLAIMED (and scum) ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION?

That was a necessary evil of my post.

I mean SERIOUSLY he goes in the SAME POST from "We can Espionage the claim doc TEHEHEHEHEEEE" to "Well he'll absorb Nightkills for us like a trooper YAYAYYA"

They're in the same post because IF he doesn't get NK'd, THEN the Espionage helps sort through the wifom rubble.

[AurorusVox]

OH, SUGGESTING ALTERNATIVES. Like... recalling the nuke and letting the Communists do the work for themselves, not the other way around.

How's that going for you at the moment?

And if you haven't noticed, it would take TWO NIGHTS to fully clear me. Which will be WASTED as soon as I am killed.

I don't WANT to die by nuke today, but I will not put up with this trying to be helpful BULLSHIT such as using ESPIONAGE on the CLAIMED BATTLESHIP.

Having you outed (and assuming town) poses a risk for scum; they might double up on kills (good for town) or both risk not killing you (good for town). Yes in the former case the (one night of) espionage is wasted. In the latter, though, there's a chance you're still alive and scum, so a check on you would be useful (and maybe even successful).

[AurorusVox]

That was a necessary evil of my post.

That's my whole POINT. Your entire post is just a bunch of "saying things that could be" aka Inhim COULD be scum and therefore Fate is scum and we COULD Cop and we BLAH BLHAA BLAH.

That wasn't what I meant. My post is more than that. /sigh I don't expect you to read it properly, though.

HAVE YOU EVEN POSTED YOUR FUCKIN READS, AKA WHO YOU THINK IS SCUM? WHETHER YOU

THINK

INHIM IS SCUM AND SHOULD BE RECALLED OR NOT?

I'm apathetic towards inHim. If he hadn't claimed Doc I probably wouldn't have cared about him getting nuked. But I think he's more useful alive at this moment.

NO. YOUVE BEEN SITTING IN NEUTRAL LAND FOR AS LONG AS I FUCKIN REMEMBER AND I THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSEYOU WERE GATHERING YOUR READS LIKE A SLOWSLOW[DACTED] BUT NO. THIS HAS GONE ON FOR THREE DAYS.

I am gathering reads. Just because I don't shout about it as much as you doesn't mean its not happening. I think Jed/Snake is scum. I have suspicions about Jack. I think Dana needs to die. But with all these nukes I think it'll be better to wait and see what their outcome is before ramping up a wagon.

They're in the same post because IF he doesn't get NK'd, THEN the Espionage helps sort through the wifom rubble.

HORESSHIT. SHOW HOW.

Inhim was dead the moment he claimed, what rubble is there? The only thing I SEEE is that nuking him will save the scum a nightkill, and trust me-being in a game with two scumteams and an outed doc its a nice lil wifom game of "the other team will kill the doc? right?-so this nuke is just getting more AND MORE ANTI-TOWN BY THE MINUTE.

^THAT IS MY POINT. Leave him alive.

BUT if he's still alive tomorrow, that means either BOTH scumteams backed out OR only one ever had the choice of killing him in the first place. Then we get into a case of "did both back down or is he scum hmm." That's when the check becomes useful. Don't forget it has a 50% chance of working correctly the first time.

---

@inHim, I took it in context. More context than you, in fact. You said you'd rather not get nuked. Your plan to not getting nuked is having the nuke recalled...by SP having some magical epiphany and change of heart? You've tried asking, and what exactly is the context of how

that's

turned out? Do you think that's changing?

[AurorusVox]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

WHY DID PERCY OF ALL GOOOD THINGS CLAIM?!

CAN I CLAIM? I AM DRUNK POSTING SO PLEASED SDAY YES

[AurorusVox]

NNEED MOAR THAN CHESSKID TO SAY IT CHESSKID STILL HATES ME FREOM BEFORE

[AurorusVox]

CHESSKID YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL AND I LOVE YOUR AVCATAR

Vote: DizzyIzzywhatever

FUCKING IF SHE WONT NUKE YOU DIEEEEEEE!

[AurorusVox]

FARADAYYYYYY

CLAIM OR NOT CLAIM? YOU ARE OBVTOWN. I DONT KNOW WHY BUT YOURE PLAYING THE SMAE AS D1....!!!

[AurorusVox]

I DO NOT HAVE AN NUKE

I don t know. I think it might explain away some things. ?

[AurorusVox]

Faraday. I think its in the town's best interests. Because. I'm valuable to town and have INFO amd I tried to hint at it but. Like percy said. I respect percy AND HE CLAIMED WITH NO REASON. Normally I find that scummy. But. :\

[AurorusVox]

Jack. I have you. I know your role. Shall I feel free to post that too?

[AurorusVox]

Mina:

1) you think SP and inhim are separate scumteams cross-butting-heads?
2) how do you react to your name dropping in the leaked messages?

[AurorusVox]

Percy is STILL awesome town.

(I would say though. I notice that you think FATE is being emulated but at one point you say one of the styles reflects me? On another site, I regularly excel as a role called "Disguiser" where one must post as another player (and therefore emulate their style) in order to survive. There is no way I would post the same in a potentially-intercepted QT as I would in thread)

Beyond that though, if you can crack the naming codes like you cracked the codes last game, I will be all over your booty.

[AurorusVox]

Leak 27

So C and U are the two people below Rogue on the playerlist, respectively.

If that is the case, I'm still not understanding him right.

That said I think U should be nuked by Vox tonight

Slip, or misdirection? You decide!
But whoever C is should help us figure out who is U, and therefore who is Rogue.

Percy. Come now. Why would scum have codes for C, U, Rogue and Tai Chi, and then STILL use Vox? There's even a chance that one of the scum is assuming playername aliases on a rotational basis. From your leaks it certainly looks like a lot of names have been randomly mentioned.

---

@Dana, last game Percy was scolded for revealing the timestamps of his leaks. Don't hold out any hope for him being able to reveal the timing of these leaks.

[AurorusVox]

I didn't even get ninja'd wtf?

[AurorusVox]

Jack. I have you. I know your role. Shall I feel free to post that too?

Also, I find the "skim" part quite interesting. How many people have needed to skimread?

[AurorusVox]

OSHIT SORRY GO AHEAD AND CRACK IT

Ibetyoualreadyknowwhatitisthoright?

[AurorusVox]

Btw if YOU crack it I will be all over YOUR booty and Percy will be left cockblocked in a corner somewhere crying in the dark.

[AurorusVox]

'with this many players, it would be dumb to bus if you don't have to.'

Leak 22

That's stupid to bus in a game with this many players on day one.

?

[AurorusVox]

This is irrelevent because a) claiming scum provides an out for scum pushing a lynch of a player they know is not part of their scum team and b) there are two scum teams who need to kill the other group anyway.

I don't think you're understanding my objection.

My point is that once Toog claims scum, people (myself included) flocked to vote him BECAUSE HE CLAIMED SCUM and you can't leave him alive when he does that. If you want to do an untainted VC, look at it prior to his scumclaim.

---

AV seems rather overdefensive over this post HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Scum here.

Actually I was more rather offended that he'd think I'd be as stupid as to post like myself in a leaky thread :\

---

RE: Snake...=_="

Ironic that the slot that wanted to control nukes is the first to get nuked. Who was it that wanted to lynch SpyreX for

being happy

for sending his nuke but only if he was wrong? That person is silly and needs to get lynched or lolnuked too.

[AurorusVox]

How long do you think a game where EVERY player had a silo would last?

[AurorusVox]

How long do you think a game where EVERY player had a silo would last?

How is this relevant to scumhunting in any way?

How is that stick up your ass?

[AurorusVox]

We have two dead silos.

I think around 5 have launched thus far today.

hmm.

The "hmm."

What do you think, then? That people are holding their nukes back for...?
Do you think town or scum are more likely to withhold their nukes?

[AurorusVox]

EBWOP: Realised the alternative could be people have nukes in defensive mode. Defensive mode is scummy: Y/N?

[AurorusVox]

Finally stopped getting ninja'd =_="

I cant see FATE really incriminating himself by going after me this early in the game if he was scum.

So SP, Fate is town right? This is only the latest example of a few posts where you've said that. But if Fate's town, why would inhimScum doc him?

I don't get it. I think you have to treat inhim being on Fate as a scumpackage or inhimTown at least.

---

Spy:
Even if inhim didnt say who he'd saved, the nuke on Fate would have not worked and we'd have figured he was BS'd since the ACC was used on Fate who proved he had a silo...and so with an inhim scumflip Fate'd have been outed as the saved player (=scumbuddy). I don't think it's as big a towntell as you're giving it credit for.

[AurorusVox]

Chess gets it.

We wait for the nuke to hit/not hit Fate before we lynch him/mourn his passing.

[AurorusVox]

It's not fencesitting. It's logical flow diagrams.

--------> INHIMTOWN ----> FATE SURVIVES ----> DO NOT QUICKLYNCH FATE

--------> INHIMSCUM -----> FATE SURVIVES ---> QUICKLYNCH FATE

--------> INHIMSCUM -----> FATE DIES ----------> MOURN HIS PASSING


Pretty clear right?

---

FTR, my read of inhim revolves around whether or not I trust a dropped scum message (I do). It's pretty pointless to debate it now seeing as he'll flip soon enough. But anyways.

In Leak 15 we get this:

"Rogue-Target e with your action. Targeting anyone else either outs you as scum or is needlessly pro-town for no reason. You can say e is playing to his townmeta so you figured he was the easiest town read during your skim."

^That had quite a bit of info in it, makes me think its not a misdirection. The only power that makes sense to use on someone who you have a town meta on is Battleship. It'd be a wickedawesome frame if its not legit. But yeah I doubt its misdirection. With this, I think SP's nuke will hit scum. And then I'm just waiting for the nuke to land at your feet and see what happens from there.

At the same time tho, SP's play wrt you and inhim is funky. inhimscum most likely incriminates you, but SP finds you town and hasn't really commented on the inhim/fate link, or said why he disagrees that it's there. Doesn't look like he's really concerned with hunting scum. My working theory would say he's right about inhimscum, you're right about SPscum, and I'm right about Fatescum.

[AurorusVox]

Drunkposting vs. actually reading properly when sober

The latter will always result in greater observation.

[AurorusVox]

HOL DUP.

What happened to it being just basic knowledge?

Its just basic knowledge

Its just basic knowledge

Its just basic knowledge

Its just basic knowledge

?

[AurorusVox]

Oh right so that was way back when I was allegedly still sitting on the fence. Wait if I was sitting on the fence why now was I the major proponent of inhimScum? Didn't you also criticise me because that post actually also includes the idea of him being town and soaking two NKs?

Oh Fate, I see what you're doing. You're trying to change your opinion to suit your situation.

[AurorusVox]

Also my apathy came before the leaks. Whoops trying to change the facts to suit your situation again Fate?

[AurorusVox]

All this codecracking is getting my juices flowing. So Jack vs Mina has made it pretty clear. The two Rogue-roles are incompatible.

One has them wanting to see Fate gone so they can use it on someone else (which I agree shouts ACC).
The other has them wanting to use it on Fate due to Town Meta (which I agree shouts Battleship).

Ergo, one of those leaks

has

to be misdirection.

---

Okay. Thinking about this logically. If there's a code on the name "Fate" in #1, it doesn't make any sense because the ACC

was

used on him. So we can discount that being a code.

"Townmeta" could be code for something else. Actually, it could mean "scum meta" (I think Fate said something earlier about reverse meanings...which could then make DanaRouge with reversings = the battleship didn't target fate for townmeta, but the ACC targetted him for scummeta.)


I think which one is the misdirection will become clear with bob's flip. Assuming that codes are consistent, Rouge isn't on the same side as radar (bobsnox); so if bobsnox is Russian, it's pretty likely Dana was Rogue i.e. #2 was misdirection; and if bobsnox is Chinese, it's pretty likely inhim was Rogue, i.e. #1 was misdirection.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: accelerate nuke

[AurorusVox]

Not radar. I can explain what I meant by it but it'd be a fullclaim at that point.

/sigh. I seem to like softclaiming when drunk (see txtmafia) and was invigorated to do so by seeing Percy claim too. But in the morning I was kind of hoping no one would notice it.

[AurorusVox]

Dizzy: Be clear. Have you just nuked Dana?

[AurorusVox]

It was, and I get it. Your nuke is legit. The "kidding" shenanigans threw me. I wanted it cleared up because I was getting suspicious that you had a nuke in defensive mode.

[AurorusVox]

SOMEONE GETS A GOLD STAR IF THEY TELL ME WHATS WRONG WITH THIS CHAIN OF THOUGHT.

They both wanted dead-Dana. Someone offers them dead-Dana. They then vote this person.

But I think you're missing the fact that they're making a distinction between dead-Dana and Dizzy-launch. Their problem isn't with the former, it's with the latter. A nuke can hit scum and still be scummy. Remember, you think SP is scum, and he nuked proven scum.

[AurorusVox]

Dana is already being nuked by DizzyIzzy. She never recalled it...so why are you also nuking Dana?

[AurorusVox]

Wait, if he recalls can he not nuke a different target?

[AurorusVox]

>_______<"

Kito. Explain. Now.

[AurorusVox]

Faradaaay, scum motivation thrives in that nuke.

I asked Kito because I expected some "Oh yeah I thought Dizzy would recall because he was getting lynched" excuse but no he just went for "I didn't read the thread" but NO YOU DID READ THE THREAD

So dana does something, you vote him,

izzy does the same thing

, you vote her, and then I nuke dana and apparently I'm the bad guy now?

I'm confused.

^See. You knew Izzy had nuked. You knew it. You even called yours the "third" so you had to know Dizzy had nuked. If you saw she'd nuked why didn't you look to see if she'd aborted before launching your own?

Not buying ignorance. This is a desperate attempt to scramble for towncred when Dana flips scum.

Vote: Kitoari

[AurorusVox]

What is this bullshit.

Yes of course I am Espionage, but my investigations don't pin guaranteed scum, at all. It says it will be obvious from my posts who my investigation was, but can anyone else see it...? I can't. Because I've not got any guilties. Herp.

Jack's role is obviously the AirBase. It's the reason I was suspicious of him earlier today but how that indicates beyond a doubt that he's scum like the dropped post suggests is beyond me. I think scum have seen me saying I knew Jack's role, and gotten excited. They forgot that Jack's role precludes him from being easily pinned down as scum, since it gives me a no result. Whoops on your part.

Also, when I crumbed Espionage it was in at attempt to indicate that my first investigation was inHim (I checked for China):

I

think knowing InHim's alignment will be useful; if the nuke on Fate fails and inhim flips scum, we know Fate is likely scum.

E

ither we go cautious, recall the nuke, and hope that we can successfully Espionage him.
*[<--- check the starred point down below]
(

P

referably

this option.

I

'll explain why in the alternative...)
...

O

r we just let him get nuked and risk losing a town-doctor.

N

ow he's outed he's pretty screwed anyway, but letting scum kill him would work out better for us, I think, as there are two scum teams, and both might target him, which lowers the NKs.

A

ND he'd get another protect off.

G

ranted, he could still get roleblocked, but even this forces scum to decide whether to direct their attention at him or not.

E

spionage will help out in the event of neither scumteam killing him and ease the WIFOMspiral.

*

S

ociopath would obviously have to agree.

^This is what I was trying to hint at when I said it was more than it seemed. Its also what I meant by a necessary evil if you remember that far back (how else could I get the G in there?) And this is why I mentioned Espionage here. I wasn't trying to direct PRs. When people started talking about how it'd take two nights, I tried to hint my N1 result:

Yes in the former case the (

one night of

) espionage is wasted. In the latter, though, there's a chance you're still alive and scum, so a check on you would be useful (and

maybe even successful

).

Sorry scum. Your framing has failed.

---

Also, somewhat unrelated but

Very noncommittal on dizzy overall.

Which is funny given:

Not buying ignorance. This is a desperate attempt to scramble for towncred when Dana flips scum.

Vote: Kitoari

Not really ironic because my problem with Kitoari is the ignorance w/r/t nuking a target someone else has already nuked. DizzyIzzy nuked someone who wasn't already dying from a nuke...so they're hardly the same.

[AurorusVox]

@AV--who do you think wrote the scumqt posts? What was the point of your wifom defense? What's your scumlist?

It could have been anyone who noticed/picked up on my claim of having INFO, probably also noticed what I'd said about your role, but didn't compute what that meant your role was (i.e. I doubt someone like Percy, for example, would write it because he'd have nailed the roles). Since it's written in the same style as the first dropped post, styling isn't an indicator. They could even both be from the same scum team. Someone in the {Fate-Sociopath-SpyreX} trio could probably pull it off.

The point in my wifom defence was I'm not going to just sit there and say nothing when I'd tried to make it clear who my targets were (neither of which indicate cert-scum). If the QT says my flip would indicate obv-scum...well, that's just plain wrong.

Scum:

Dana - Chinese

--Dana makes an interesting point about the dropped QT suggesting she's not scum (why would she organise NKs if she's getting nuked anyway?) But since I know the second is fabricated, I don't want to take the first at face value.
--If Dana isn't Chinese scum, I'd look closer at one of Faraday or Chesskid, because they have had a pretty easy ride (pressure wise) so far. I think the first message sounds like someone who is worried they'll be a potential NK target (so I don't think it's you), but not a lynch target.


Fate - Russia

--I think Fate is the most likely Russian scum due to connections to inHim. Since bobsnox flipped Chinese, it looks like Rouge was the Battleship after all. And the message that has Rouge as Battleship also has the Battleship protecting Fate.

DizzyIzzy - Russia

--Dizzy is the scummiest out of all the remaining players imo. The "we must kill Percy" in the latest post is no good. Sounds like she wants to shy away from the "NK PERCY!" theme in the dropped posts...and the "go ahead and lynch me just so I can lol at Chesskid" sounded very insincere.

Which brings me back to:

Vote: DizzyIzzy

If we can get a Fate lynch, I'd be all for that.

--I've dropped my suspicions of Kito because I realised that because bobsnox's flip means Dana is not Russian, Kitoari can't have nuked "already dead" Dana-scumbuddy for towncred. I can't see any further reason for scum to waste their nuke like that. But then again, scum can make mistakes just like town so I'm viewing the whole incident as null, now.

[AurorusVox]

My day play was trying to get him not nuked so I could check him again without saying "OHAY GAISE COP HERE."

I fully accept it looks bad. But tell me where this "clear scum" that I've supposedly investigated is?

[AurorusVox]

And the day before?

How would you expect me to act towards him? He wasn't confirmed town or scum.

I don't know what you mean.

Well, if I'm really the one in that message...I ought to have a clear scum target from my posts. I don't.

---

FATE: you could have made that drop not because of your RAGELOCK but because you're not bothering to read properly and might have missed the fact that Jack was AirBase. I can say you're not reading because you're not making any sense.

Of course I'm going to defend because by defending against the QT message I can show how what was dropped doesn't add up to my investigations. I.e. that its a frame with holes in it. Why would I leak that when I don't even have clear site on scum? No. It's bullshit.

And why the hell would I talk to myself? How does that make any sense? Are you saying I'm engaging in a dialogue with myself?
And what's this "lack of multipost" business? How do you know it didn't drop on Percy too?

Also, why does lynching the Espionage help town more than lynching a nuke? Sounds like you don't want to have the scumWIFOM of who's killing Percy and who's killing me in case I get an investigation off on you or your buddy, eh?

[AurorusVox]

THATS THE APRT I FORGOT.


AUROUSVOX INVESTIGATED VASUADEVA (IT WAS HIM AS OF N1 RIGHT? MAYBE?) OF ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE GAME?

LOZLZOLZOLZOLZOZL

Yes, VV was the person I sent my investigate action onto. We recently played a game together as scum. I wanted to catch him out if he was scum in this game. I was tempted to investigate Jack N1 but I thought he was pretty scummy anyway and that I could catch him out just on his posts if he was scum.

Then I went for Jack N2 because I didn't have much interaction with him that day and I still had lingering suspicions.

w/r/t the VV investigation, I could have fakeclaimed on anyone. Percy is not Russian. Chesskid is not Chinese. It's not like anyone noticed by crumbing in that post.

[AurorusVox]

"reconed?"

[AurorusVox]

If Dizzy is scum her promises mean nothing.

[AurorusVox]

So we get her to do it first. Who's that "someone" going to be in the event of her refusal? We should have Percy pick someone since he's the obvTowniest.

I still say lynch her and get everyone else to nuke you. Stops scum slipping through the gaps.

[AurorusVox]

I'm baffled by all the people who think he's

more likely

to be town for doing something for which there is plenty of scum motivation

What scum motivation is there in WASTING a nuke on someone who's already dying? The scum motivation I saw in it was him wanting to nuke Dana because he knew Dana would flip scum together (i.e. they're Russian scum together). But since Dana is very unlikely to be Russian scum, he's wasting his nuke for no reason. Which means it was likely a mistake, which has to be a null tell.

Mina, I've been framed at least twice in those leaks (mentioned by name and by role). Maybe its because they saw Percy had a scumread on me, they're hamming it up to get me lynched because they're scared I might investigate one of them. I'm happy to have the town direct my investigation tonight, and reveal the results tomorrow. Today we should lynch DizzyIzzy, the Russian scum.

[AurorusVox]

I've already answered.

But, basically, VV because I'd recently finished a scumgame with him and wanted to catch him out if he was scum here (I mean, I thought he played quite townie in that game so...). I figured that I'd have a lot more chances to investigate so that it'd be alright. Unfortunately I went for China.

Then Jack because I had lingering doubts about him and hadn't had much interaction with him D2 as I'd hoped. I didn't really go after the other suspects (Jed, early on Chess) because I felt they would get lynched (or nuked) anyway.

[AurorusVox]

Couldn't part of those posts that imply a double-powered scum team be scum talking about who to use their nukes on? "Night action" reverses very easily to "day nuke."

I take it my list of targets is the same as given by Fate earlier?
Fate / SpyreX /

Dizzy

Since Dizzy got lynched, I can replace her with Kitoari if people want. Also, Chess added Mina on there so that gives me up to four to choose from, 'kay?

[AurorusVox]

I've been framed by the leaks. Probably by Mina, she's all over my bacon.

Oh, did I mention I have a guilty?

[AurorusVox]

You're allcaps cocky because you saw you weren't on the investigation list.

Who said I stuck to the list?

[AurorusVox]

*Mina and her scumbuddy

You Russian?

[AurorusVox]

Don't nuke me bro.

So far I believe my stewing has caught one additional scum.

[AurorusVox]

As a sign of good faith, SpyreX's nuke is headed for victory.

[AurorusVox]

All I'll say is that he spells freedom with a hammer and a sickle.

Mina is very likely his partner, and Faraday is Chinese.

[AurorusVox]

Mina, I think that Faraday hasn't done much all game and has surfed through on his successful nuke, so taking out someone who was under a bit of pressure anyway could be a winning move on his part. His reaction to my claim of guilty, considering that he wasn't on the approved investigation list, looked scummy, and makes more sense as the last remaining Chinese (as Russian he might worry I'd at least hit his scumbuddy Fate).
"YES NOW I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CROSSKILLS!"

Plus he can't be Russian because I think you're the last Soviet; you have blatant connections with SovietFate and I think you've been hot on the interpretations of frames that Fate probably laid out.

[AurorusVox]

The existence of two scumteams means that doesn't make you obvtown.

The willingness to get nuked for Failsafe after SovietFate has died will make you obvtown, but likely a dead obvtown.

[AurorusVox]

If I'm bad at being confirmed scum its because I'm American

[AurorusVox]

Haw haw.

If I'm bad at being confirmed scum it's because I'm not scum.
Better?

[AurorusVox]

NOT LYING

[AurorusVox]

I don't think any of the other living players fit as Fate's buddy as well as you do.


Kito is possible if they've been playing hard and loose with each other. But you have more connections than him.
Jack I could see at a stretch due to Fate recalling his nuke (which, btw, was simply a big ploy to stop him having to nuke Chesskid, guaranteed) but I think Jack's pretty town.
Chesskid I just don't see, since yesterday Chess said Fate had to nuke him today. Don't know why he'd say that to his buddy.
Faraday fits better as Chinese scum than Russian with Fate as I've already outlined.
SpyreX is obviously not nuking his partner unless he recalls after I've outed my guilty (part of the reason I waited was to see if SpyreX would recall)

[AurorusVox]

Uhh. I may have a plan that involves not nuking me today that could lead to automatic town win. Please let me know what you think:

- If Mina and Faraday* nuke each other, if I'm right we win! Yay! (*I don't mind debate on this if people would rather rotate Kito and Chess into the mix but I think this is our best chance)
- If I'm wrong on one account, that's okay, we then lynch someone based on the flips. Even if we mislynch, we're still okay.
- If I'm wrong on both accounts, we lynch one person out of the four remaining not-me's. We have a 50% chance of hitting scum on numbers alone. We would need to lynch correctly because...
- ...by this point the hope is to have killed off one scumteam entirely.

- Then at night, with only the one night kill, we are landed in 3p LYLO the next day.
- I check for the remaining scumteam and announce my result in thread. We nuke that person.
- That nuked person votes for me and just before the nuke lands we lynch me.
- The cleared person survives by not being nuked, NK'd or lynched, and we Americans win with them.

Since Fate IS Soviet, if I'm scum I can't win if I'm lynched since I wouldn't have a buddy left to carry the torch. That should satisfy those of you who think I'm scum.

One major flaw with this plan is "what if AV gets night killed?" but if you think I'm scum this won't be possible since...y'know, I'd have to shoot myself. The other alternative is "what if AV's investigation target is NK'd?" - yes, these are both risks, but I think that letting me get another investigation off is a chance worth taking. In the case of my target being NK'd, we could still use the nuke and lynch mechanic against me if need be. In the case of ME being NK'd, the nuke and lynch mechanic could probably still be used to great effect at LYLO regardless of who was there.


Is that workable?

[AurorusVox]

Mina: in short, he was gloating because he knew he hadn't been busted since he wasn't on the approved investigate list; he makes sense as Chinese because it means his BUDDY wasn't on there either.

But you're right that the crosskill comment makes no sense. I thought it made sense at the time. In my head I was thinking of an ideal world where you get lynched or nuked as scum. Of course that hasn't happened yet so I was a bit premature and got confused >_>"

@Plan:

ONLY fails if both Jack and Chess are both alive at the end but we can work around that

If we have two nukes, guilty nukes me, the clear nukes them - town wins
If we have one nuke and my guilty is not on them, they nuke the guilty, we lynch me - town wins
If we have one nuke and my guilty is on them, they nuke me, we lynch them - town wins

[AurorusVox]

MY PLAN IS GLORY

I want to use my investigation again I've never been a cop before Q~Q

[AurorusVox]

Mina, if you're American, you really need to stop thinking everything through with me as scum. Now that your "AV-Faraday" theory has been disproven, you're relying solely on some leaks that were forged (and could easily have been so). What seems to be the sticking point in your #2413 is trying to fit me into the scumteam around the other scumspects. Take me out of the equation and it all slots into place.

Of course if you're scum continue pushing me and try to survive the nuclear apocalypse on the back of a communist dolphin of victory.

[AurorusVox]

Don't nuke me bro. Nukes are better used elsewhere.

We have what, Faraday's, Mina's, and Sharkfin's? One of them can nuke Chess to get killed (Shark can do this if people want Shark dead). Mina should nuke SpyreX. Faraday should nuke Mina. Or vice versa. One of Faraday or Mina needs to get nuked.

[AurorusVox]

I want this America to crush all communists. Nuking me does not further this agenda. We need to spread the nukes onto these communist bastards, not a god fearing American espionage agent.

[AurorusVox]

[AurorusVox]

Nice work Spy. That slots in very nicely with my Faraday-scum read. Though, if Jack is Chinese scum and Fate cancelled a nuke on him, that will be hilarious and saddening all at the same time.

But see, people don't seem to be thinking Faraday or Jack would make good nuke targets, but things like this leak prove why we need to use the nukes on people other than me. If just one of the scum is someone who seems "obv town" atm, we'll be royally fucked and we WILL lose. My plan takes that into account and works around it; in fact it works every time no matter the situation at 3-way lylo.

What I don't get to the objection to not nuking me is that if I'm scum, in 3 way lylo as I proposed, there is NO WAY for me to win. I think scum are pushing my nuke so they have to face one less nuke themselves.

[AurorusVox]

Have two tabs open to make reading easier.

C is very spot on with his scum reads. He should be our first NK.

c on the other hand is easily lynched, even though he is also accurate. They should be the first targets we look at, and it will look like cross-killing.

As for our actions tonight.

Tai Chi-Target i or v or V with yours. It would be very helpful.

Rogue-Target e with your action. Targeting anyone else ether outs you as scum or is needlessly pro-town for no reason. You can say e is playing to his townmeta so you figured he was the easiest town read during your skim.

MOTHER FATHER

As it sits Rogue being russian and e being fate means that the RUSSIANS have two active abilties.

AV YOU SONOFA SPUTNIK

There are so many explanations. Some of that could be misleading, refer to NKs or the following day's nukes. Let's be honest: why would scum put EVERY action they're going to take, straightly, in ONE post? Some of that HAS to be coded or misleading.

[AurorusVox]

Did Tai Chi ever leak more than that once? I have a feeling Tai Chi isn't even in that scumteam and it's all just a mindfuck charade.

[AurorusVox]

Someone should nuke Jack. He could be Fate's buddy via recalled nuke, or he could be Chinese via SpyreX's interception. Either way he makes a great nuke target.

I'd also love to see Mina and/or Faraday nuked.

[AurorusVox]

That would make my heart got pita-pat and explode in joy...except for (4)

My problem with (4) is that if you're going to lynch me, why not save it for tomorrow AFTER I have another chance at investigating scum successfully?
As I have outlined, with me alive, town can't lose at 3p LYLO. They just can't. If you think I'm scum, I can't win at lylo anyway. So you have no reason to kill me off this early.

[AurorusVox]

Mina, I'm trying to stay alive because otherwise this town can easily lose. If I was better off dead I wouldn't mind getting nuked but at the moment that's not the case.

Also, earlier I stated that I thought Jack could be Fate's buddy. SpyreX's analysis of the voting leak makes both Jack-China and Faraday-China more likely too. Jack is a great nuke target, especially considering CONFIRMED SOVIET SCUM retracted a nuke on him as well.

Mina, what is your biggest reason for not wanting to nuke SpyreX right now?

[AurorusVox]

AurorusVox, are you saying that I should nuke SpyreX? You don't even seem to suspect him.

No I just want to know why you're adamant not to. You'll be needing all the hankies you've got for the crying you'll be doing :\

Also, theorizing, AV implied he had a guilty on fate, right? And the leaked messages yesterday said that espionage had a guilty on fate, and proposed a deal which was carried out, scum choosing to cooperate instead. And then Fate tried to pin the fact that AV lived on me.

HOW? How did I have a guilty on Fate YESTERDAY? Show me that. Show me how this even makes sense.

Mina you may have been surpassed as Fate's buddy by this fella.

[AurorusVox]

Mina. If Faraday is Russian like you suspect, then the very foundation of your case against me (Russia having two active powers) is useless. I've noticed that you keep trying to fit me into the Chinese scenario. What's the deal with that? For me to be scum FYPOV I have to be Russian. Or do you admit that those leaks COULD BE misinformation LIKE I'VE BEEN SAYING all along?

[AurorusVox]

><" I was referring specifically to the bits that frame me. I've said plenty of times in other posts that some of what was said is legit and some is misdirection.

[AurorusVox]

By the way

Also, theorizing, AV implied he had a guilty on fate, right? And the leaked messages yesterday said that espionage had a guilty on fate, and proposed a deal which was carried out, scum choosing to cooperate instead. And then Fate tried to pin the fact that AV lived on me.

HOW? How did I have a guilty on Fate YESTERDAY? Show me that. Show me how this even makes sense.

[AurorusVox]

AMERICA IS THE LAND OF LOGIC

Logic dictates that Mina is talking rubbish. Her entire case on me depends on me being Russian Scum and yet she keeps putting me as Chinaman and Faraday as Russian scum! Why can no one see how she is stretching and manipulating America for her nefarious desires?!

[AurorusVox]

America has a better chance of prevailing with my Espionagical powers QQ

[AurorusVox]

@Shark
Why would scum kill such obvious mislynch bait? You're all dancing Mina's dance despite the fact it makes no sense.

[AurorusVox]

NICE KNOWING YOU AV

NICE KNOWING YOU SCUM

Did you do a happy dance when you saw I'd caught one of your competition? I bet you were hoping it was someone other than Fate since he was getting nuke anyway. Who do you think Fate's partner is then, Mr. Chinaman? Mina or Kito?

[AurorusVox]

^EBWOP of course Kito's changed to Shark. Probably not Shark since he's willing to die. Same for Spy.

Russian: Mina or Jack
China: Faraday

[AurorusVox]

Convenient that Faraday is starting to sound townish after I've blown your pitiful case against me wide open.

Shark, what happened to SovietScum implying MinaScum?

[AurorusVox]

^FateScum, sorry

[AurorusVox]

Mina I have not claimed scum I claim American Espionage Agent Abraham Goddamn Lincoln.

Your case was I was scum BECAUSE the leak said RUSSIA had TWO active powers. If I'm CHINESE and Faraday is Russian (according to you), then that case is obviously at fault.

[AurorusVox]

What will you all do when I flip Yankee?

"Oh no now what we only have two nukes left and three to four people who could probably be scum if only we'd listened to AV we sure could have used his investigative powers tonight (and damn we should have realised he'd have made it to LYLO since what scum team in their right mind would kill the person we all want to lynch)?"

[AurorusVox]

After AV dies and is a chinamens.

If I was a Chinaman, did I lie about my "InHim not China" report? If so, what was my first night's report? If I lied, do you really think I'd have crafted a massive breadcrumb into the post indicating that I'd investigated him BEFORE he flipped Russian?

I hate how this town are saying "AV must be scum" but the mechanics you're all using to say that would place me as a Sputnik WHILST AT THE SAME TIME you're all theorising how CHINESE I must be. If you think I'm Chinese, like, the evidence is missing. The evidence being "Faraday's partner (owaitno)" and "Russia have two active powers" (owaitframe)

[AurorusVox]

O America, how I loved thee!
I bade thee be my one true friend,
And yet thou turn'd thy face from me -
And now I fear our friendship's end
Is only all to clear -
For shackled as thee were by fear
Thou hath struck thy own...
And yonder go I, alone,
Into a grave so lately made
As thou hath bade.
Your chance still lives though I might not -
And all I bid thee to do now,
Without intent to scheme or plot -
Is to nuke the shit out of those goddamn communist motherfuckers.

[AurorusVox]

This truly is a case of The Death of the Author in more than one way.

/sigh

It goes against my every literary critical theoretical principle to impose my own author-orientated meaning onto a text that only comes into (meaningful) existence with its present reading on the part of The Reader. What I mean to say is that for me to tell you "what I mean" is like committing literary critical theoretical suicide and castrating my post-structuralist deconstructionist ideology. In other words, because language is itself inherently meaningless - that is to say, since language only acquires meaning in the terms that we agree to imbue it with meaning - I cannot in good faith bring myself to answer your question and impose MY supposed "authorial" meaning onto a text that only "means" anything in your own terms and with your own birth as a reader.

But fuck that bullshit. THE POEM CLEARLY STATES THAT I'M AMERICAN. AM-ER-I-CAN!!

[AurorusVox]

If I'm Chinese scum I was lying about having a not-China on InHim, which means I could have at least one innocent report.
If I'm Russian scum I was lying about InHim AND Fate, which means I could have up to TWO innocent reports.

Do you want to know if I'm scum?

[AurorusVox]

Has the timer ticked over from when you can recall? I was going to wait for you to clamour to ask about my reports just to turn around and say

"I am not."

Goddamn communist bastards gon' kill all you hippe Yankees, you need a real American like me to lead the way. Bah.

[AurorusVox]

I imagine this would be the music accompanying my death

[AurorusVox]

Q_Q

Percy and Jack rode my ass from like the very first vote. Then three messages locked me in as scum that Mina picked up on (ironically, all the posts Percy thought were from me were from Fate...I think all of the ones that implicated me were d'oh). With Chess' plan to have all nukers die and Mina's concrete evidence against me, I was convinced we'd lost going into D4, and that affected how I played it. I figured Fate would have to nuke Chess and would die, and that I was outed as scum anyway and to just try to wriggle through, whereas what I should have done is detract attention from Fate and let him make it to glorious LYLO. He probably still would have gotten killed by the Jack-survivor plan but who knows...T~T

[AurorusVox]

Also! Following on from RC, this game was thoroughly enjoyable to read and play, with fantastic moderating! The response to Sociopath's pm was <3

[AurorusVox]

and I now have the best theme song

If only the other team hadn't killed you off, this would have been all yours <3