Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Dekes]

Ahoy, everyone.

-> rereading...

[Dekes]

Alright, now I spent the better half of my afternoon reading through this thread. Good read actually. And good luck to Kast when he comes back.

Now since there was a lot of info here only some things off the top of my head. I'll have to read through some Isos anyway:

- As much as I'd like to have my revenge on tans-scum after our first encounter, this game here seems eerily close to the game where we were town together. He had quite some crazy theories and completely arbitrary cases there as well, especially when being attacked. (Btw, I'm still mad that the CT lynch went through /irrelevant)

- The fact that Kdub has a completely different view of tans makes it look like he's using this for his case in order to keep the counterwagon going. Not getting good vibes from Kdub at all.

- Jack can actually play a solid pro-town game? I don't know if I should be disturbed or happy. I'm going with the latter for now.

- I love the Reck case. Trying to correct his dram-scum read and even worse, the change from "There are at least four people I want lynched before SensFan" to "I don't care who's getting lynched out of npiau, dram and Sensfan" is just awful. I have some wild guesses I'll keep for myself for now.

- Don't get good vibes from Katsuki and Guderian. I can't really remember why Guderian, I think there was something wrong with how he viewed the Kdub-tans debate, have to reread that bit. Katsuki has been avoiding any real content so far. I'm surprised she (I think I asked you in Castlevania about your gender, can't remember if you answered back then, sorry) hasn't made any lists with her name on it so far to make her even more obvious.

@Katsuki: Why is reck "obvtown"?

That's it for now. I'm sure there was lot more I meant to address but those three hours of reading (you heard that right) made my head explode. I'll be here for a while though. I don't intend to wake up tomorrow and see another eight pages. Feel like [Redacted] D1 minus the petty squabbles.

Vote: Reck

[Dekes]

Can I make a proposal because I see that topic popping up every now and then?

Can we drop anything related to the ring situation until we have some actual proof that something will happen to them or there's another agenda surrounding them? The discussion's only distracting and not in the least helpful as of now.


Well, so I guess, I can stop wasting time on Katsuki. That mess can sort itself later out. Same goes for Reck.

I may have to look through Sensfan's Iso again, but if his recent proposition of color claiming has anything to do with his wagon, count me out. While this is a silly idea, because as mentioned, I don't think the mods would have forgotten about this scenario during the designing of the game, I hardly see any scum motivation for the color claiming, since it doesn't help increase scum's chances for hitting any PR's.
That would leave some SSBF alignment preference meta. Not really incriminating. Same goes for the Starbuck case though I see a lot of fluff in her ISO.

If anyone has a more convincing Sensfan case, I'm all ears.

It's noticeable that so many suspicion is cast against Guderian yet no vote on him. Let me help out here a bit:

Unvote; Vote: Guderian

Case is already strong enough, but I found out what bothered me with his initial kdub-tans statement. He asked both to give reasons for why the other is scum (why exactly, if he though both of them were most likely scum?), yet never followed up with this. Nice "pro-active" alibi questioning there.

[Dekes]

If anyone has a more convincing Sensfan case, I'm all ears.

And I can't say I really trust you, Reck. Though that's not that much of a problem in a two scum group game.So, key points that don't include anything color related suffice for now.

[Dekes]

@Stethoscope
Sheeping me is refreshing for me and nice and whatnot. A bit of originality wouldn't hurt either though.


I say, no more word shall be spoken of Starbuck until either
a) she returns and actually contributes to the game or
b) tomorrow when apparently all is solved according to Reck.


Reck has gotten considerably better since my last post. The flip flopping around dramonic is not forgotten....but for now it's on the backburner treated as "mushy lovey dovey relations prevented Reck from taking a stronger stance on dram earlier".

Reck, if you think Guderian's scum, can you make your entourage switch over so we can finally have a solid wagon going?
Alternatively can you outline the case on Sensfan for me? All I'm seeing there is uselessness and something about SSBF's dubious scum preferance.
I vaguely remember a giant post from you, I don't know if it contained a case on Sensfan, so I'm too lazy to look it up right now.


And if Katsuki should post something of interest, keep me updated...until then consider her posts being skimmed from now on.


SpyreX needs sto stop engaging in every single discussion that revolves around his Orange pick...useless thread cluttering. By now, everyone should now your theory why you picked orange second. Either they believe it or not, but don't answer every one of them in detail again and again...that and calling for a Jack lynch over some ridiculous C/P-spiel make my spider-sense tingle.


Going through some ISO's from time to time. Sign me up if a KK-lynch is ever up for discussion. I remember being suspicious of him very early on when there was a barrage of pointless questioning and pointing out the obvious by him...guess, I simply forgot about him after a while.

[Dekes]

Gotta love how SpyreX is asking for the town motivation behind Jack's actions and then goes on to join the main wagon though he doesn't "see [the case] on Gud". What town motivation exactly is behind that one?

[Dekes]

Not Surprised gud was scum.

Not surprised dram was scum.

nopoint, kdub, and Kats are probably scum.

Steph is acting scummy.

FTFY.

But honestly, Jack is the best summarizer.


Watching Andrius makes no sense imo. I think he'd attract more investigative roles than scum. One of the powerhouses like Vi or MoI would've been better choices to watch. But poor choice of action isn't necessarily scummy.

Hiding behind Vi makes even less sense. Especially considering npiau had Vi as town throughout D1. How would you not expect someone like Vi to get killed early on? And this goes beyond poor choice of action.


I don't think I'll ever trust a cop claiming Fate again. BUT Fate, IF you are indeed a cop, why do you want to get nipau lynched instead of your confirmed scum SensFan?


Steph is either scum or the scummiest, whiniest, most overly defensive, non contributing, useless townie I've seen in quite a while.


If we're discussing about who should get investigated next, I'll throw in Kdub and Stove as good choices.


And finally, we can get rid of noise and scum at the same time!? This could only be topped if it were my birthday today...what!? It IS my birthday? Sweet.

Vote: Katsuki

Reck may have been roleblocked or not, doesn't matter anyway since Kats was already scum yesterday.

[Dekes]

No objections here.

Guys like Stepho, npiau and Sens (has he said anything today) can wait till tomorrow.

This was not a townie post-hammer post.

[Dekes]

A lynch has been reached. Everyone (except for the one who was lynched) may continue to talk during twilight.

Whoops.

Though I don't really see the point of this rule anyway.

[Dekes]

Holy shit...

Apparently a vig has taken care of scummy Steph and probably dram as well. The other three tonight look like scum kills - now that we know Vi was not yellow like some had assumed.

The Stove apparently was investigated by Starbuck, therefore the town read she claimed yesterday on him.


So, let's do this quick and dirty.

Vote: Nopoint

For the record: Reck really deserves some credit if the read scum team really turns to be out as dram, Gud, Nopoiint and Sensfan.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: xvart

The nopoint situation is really whacky, but without knowing if a hider can avoid any kind of action, it does sound plausible.


People like Kagelord and Kast are heavily coasting. Gotta take a look into those two and a couple of others.

And for the love of God, anyone with appropriate powers out there, something has to be done to SensFan tonight. Last thing we heard from him was his color claiming idea back on D1. And it's not like he's not totally active in Mish Mash forum all this time.

[Dekes]

While we're waiting for xvart to answer my question, I've got another line of inquiry.

Magna, in your first post of D2 (post 1131), why do you vote nopoint while saying very little about Katsuki, despite the fact that there was strong evidence against both of them at the time? In fact, I would argue that the evidence against Katsuki (claimed result by confirmed town-Starbuck) was even stronger. I felt that your vote here stands out because the two wagons were both viable at this point, yet you are trying to push nopoint as the lynch over someone who we now know is scum. It may turn out that nopoint is scum as well, but the point still holds as long as he is not yellow.

To elaborate on this one:

On D3 MoI completely ignored the guilty on xvart, only asking him to clarify whether he got watched by Katsuki or not.
He was going after NoPoint instead.
If xvart is flipping yellow I think there's a great case on MoI being yellow as well.

To answer MoI's question:
I remembered there being a greater fuss being made about Vi's death flavor. But upon reskimming D2 all I could find was Plum hinting at Vi being evil and you speculating Vi being the yellow kill. So, the speculation of Vi being yellow apparently was only in my notes.


By the by, on D1 I started the Gud wagon when nobody else wanted to and I asked triple voter Reck to move his votes to Gud when there was a Starbuck wagon (and I think a SensFan wagon) going on, so I'd like to get some non red-scum credit there.

*wonders whether Fritzler refused to take over that particular slot or refused to replace into this game at all*

[Dekes]

On D3 MoI completely ignored the guilty on xvart, only asking him to clarify whether he got watched by Katsuki or not.
He was going after NoPoint instead.

What guilty? The only thing Kdub said yesterday was "xvart is scum" after I said nothing interesting happened to me the previous night. That equates to a guilty in your opinion how? What do you suppose is the result that Kdub has on me when a cop has flipped? What do you think SpyreX has on me?

Me having a town read on SpyreX, him claiming having a connection with KduB who in turn claimed a guilty on you which is backed up by Spyrex, plus, the way you handled the initial situation back in #1277 is enough for me.
I don't know what they got on you but they better not tell. I don't find it hard at all to believe in more than one investigative role, especially in a game with three scum sections. And even if they're not cops, there are other ways of finding scum like tracking and watching for example.

If you flip town, which I don't think, they have either damn good explaining to do tomorrow or are going to face serious rope issues.

Also, why did you think you were busdroven (this just can't a word) by Vi?

I honestly have no idea whether Vi switched himself with Andy or xvart or if he switched other people for whatever purposes. And I don't even want to think about it because afaik we haven't got the slightest hint what Vi did N1 and if it could help us find any scum.

[Dekes]

Be the hero, tans!

*wonders if Kit even bothers to read through this thread now*

[Dekes]

@xvart
Or you could be a lying scumbag buying yourself a night for ysour own evil purposes. I'd rather take the safe choice today over trusting a scum.

[Dekes]

Don't let us go all WIFOM-y into the night, Andrius, by letting Kit quick claim something in thread without someone be able to cc/prove the claim wrong.

[Dekes]

A cult mechanic? Really? Support from (several) flavor specialists is greatly appreciated. Is it possible that people automatically convert to the Black Lantern section based on their role or is it more likely that this is the work of a recruiting mechanism?

If it is a cult, then unfortunately we can't assume anyone as confirmed town anymore,

but we can deal with that later.

Kdub gets thousand Blackest Night points for this one. We are of now 7-2-1-1 excluding any Black Latern shenanigans. Another slaughterfest at night and we are close to LyLo already. We should shed some light on this situation pretty soon.

Vote: MoI

Still yellow scum. Upon rereading through suspects and dead scum last night there's a good chance Kagelord is yellow scum as well though he was pretty early on both Kats and xvart, still have to check the timing of when he joined their respective wagons.
If someone has proper evidence of other people being scum (npiau is still a good candidate) so we can weed out one of the killing factions, I'm all ears.

I'm also not sure if SpyreX's gambit of not letting himself getting targeted by town was the greatest of all ideas.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
I saw you down there, Kagelord. Might wanna leave some comments on your partners' deaths or anything at all?


Oh yeah, and xvart lying about his role? Shocking.

[Dekes]

EBWOP²:
Mmmmmmh....reading through dana's latest posts and adding the bits I know about Blackest Night from the Wiki article, there's a possibility we aren't looking for the remaining yellow, red and orange scum anymore.

But that would be really whacky if we had to re-eveluate our reads on every single person midway through the game. I don't think I would like that at all.

[Dekes]

Last- Dekes, about the whole "No more lynching OJ/Red/Yellow" - Dana stated that our win cons wouldn't change. So unless either scum never had a "when your faction controls the town, or nothing can prevent the same" type wincon or they got modified wincons overnight, I don't foresee that happening.

Eh, I guess, that's what you call thinking from a town POV. Because exactly what I did was looking at my wincon and since it didn't specifically state that we have to eliminate red/yellow/orange I believed the alteration of the wincon to hunting Black Lantern could be explained that way. But you're right: the scum wincon should still contain something like "last faction standing", so we still have to eliminate them.

That's what I'm saying though. We have to choose our demons. 2 yellows left, 1 red, 1 SK, and up to 3 cult members. That leaves actual 4 town members left.

^ Just earned Black Lantern points as well. What makes you think that the Black Lantern faction can't recruit scum?

I want to hear what happened with Andy and NPIAU before deciding on MoI.

Yep, like I said. Looks like yellow scum.

I fear tans needs death. He reverted to his scum meta the last couple of days (recrution?) and there's no logical explanation to kill Toog with so much scummier people out there.
Plus, I don't understand why a Hal Jordan claim needs death. If anything, I'd believe Hal Jordan would b e the only sure bet of being in the game on the town side. And with three flipped green Lanterns, I think, all claimed Green Lanterns but Hal Jordan are scum now.

I once again need some flavor experts. I know, they probably have a fake claim, but is there a specific person flavor-wise that would indicate the Black Lantern recruiter?
And I'm not sure there are really already three Black Lanterns since only now that a Black Lantern has flipped, dana talked about an altered state of game. May or may not be indicative of when the Black Lanterns joined the game.

[Dekes]

GREEN: 3 dead, one to go (ONE OF TANNY AND NOPOINT IS SCUM) which also means whoever claims Hal Jordan is dead.

means nopoint claimed green somewhere. Can you quote that because it seems I might have missed that.

And the flavor question still stands. Is there a color that most likely would contain the black recruiter, i.e. is there flavor-wise a Lantern that the black recruiter generated from? Otherwise I'm tempted to test the following theory, especially after OoT just ended:

Unvote; Vote: danakillsu

Slim chance, but I wouldn't wanna lose because of something like that which can be easily tested. If somebody wants to vote RC until the next VC, feel free to help out.

If nothing's happening at the next VC, I think I may be up for a nipau lynch today, because apart from the obvious scum vibes he's giving off, I believe there's a good chance that either the black recruiter or the orange SK could be action immune.

@tans
Don't act like you didn't see my post. Why did you shoot Toog? There wasn't a lot indicating you think he was scum.


/offtopic
If anyone is interested in being my back-up mod for my Mini Normal Game (in return I'd offer back-up duties as well, of course), shoot me a pm.

[Dekes]

GREEN: 3 dead, one to go (ONE OF TANNY AND NOPOINT IS SCUM) which also means whoever claims Hal Jordan is dead.

means nopoint claimed green somewhere. Can you quote that because it seems I might have missed that.

Andrius? You there?

And I honestly believe, tans is recruited black (if it started prior to N3) given how he changed his behaviour over the days and how he's all like "I'm the 4th green Lantern, I'm basically confirmed! y'all!". Maybe he is the 4th green Lantern, but he's definitely not town (anymore).

[Dekes]

Okay, got it. Hal Jordan should definitely come forward now.

Though I'm 95% sure, tans AND nipau are both scum. I'm 100% sure, MoI is scum. And this game feels like one mislynch could cost us the game (hello balance?). Meh, let's just wait for the next VC.

Also, I'm saying this now already, scum should man up tonight and aim for crosskills/black lantern to give us and themselves a decent shot at winning this game.

[Dekes]

He said not voting anyone. Because I haven't expressed who I think is scum and who I want to get lynched several times today, right? Tihihihihi, silly scum.

And what keeps you from voting today?

[Dekes]

No to massclaim.

We still have scum presenting themselves on a silver platter and at least another night before worrying about losing.

[Dekes]

But I'm sure we don't have to mislynch today.

[Dekes]

Wow, tans ia bad at flailing and trying to deflect suspicion.

@Andy
Me too.

[Dekes]

Pfft, you say you know my scum meta - what part of flailing and deflecting suspicion is part of my scum meta?

No, that's just general scum behaviour. But thanks for the admission yet again

And now hush, you're caught, stop cluttering the thread any further. I promise I won't, too.

[Dekes]

Alright, alright. How does your latest game plan catch any scum?

[Dekes]

Yellow are KageLord and MoI.

And what difference does it make if we massclaim today instead of tomorrow when we can easily lynch scum first and keep the scum in the dark for one more night?

[Dekes]

The same KageLord, btw, who's been spending the entire team watching the Theme Park again without leaving a note in here. Inb4 "I had to catch-up first" yadda yadda.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
*time

[Dekes]

Then I'd like to refer to this one once again:

GREEN: 3 dead, one to go (ONE OF TANNY AND NOPOINT IS SCUM) which also means whoever claims Hal Jordan is dead.

And the flavor question still stands. Is there a color that most likely would contain the black recruiter, i.e. is there flavor-wise a Lantern that the black recruiter generated from?

How much of a flavor geek are the persons currently around?

Pedit:
Nothing else to add, Kagelord?

[Dekes]

Hadn't considered it actually. I thought cults can't recruit scum because it screws over the scum team?

Never played with a cult, so no experience there. What happens usually if a cult recruiter recruits scum?
Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws here because the thought of possibly (if the recruiton really started N1) having only four real townies left is scary.

And I'm not sure there are really already three Black Lanterns since only now that a Black Lantern has flipped, dana talked about an altered state of game. May or may not be indicative of when the Black Lanterns joined the game.

Uh, that comment earns you some Black Lantern points yourself.

Then what do you make of this note by dana:

Obviously, the game has changed.

Though you have not settled your differences as representatives of different emotions, you realize that there is a threat that might become greater than all of you combined. The Black Lantern Corps, representing death, is able to corrupt the living and the dead to join them in their quest to end all life in the galaxies. Your win conditions have not changed, but rest assured that this

new enemy

will do all it can to keep you from fulfilling them.

Bolded parts: Red herring or vital info?

[Dekes]

No, the thing I was trying to find out is whether dana's post indicated that the recruition began N3 or not.

[Dekes]

Okay then.

One last question for you, Andrius, and if I like the answer I won't oppose a massclaim, if the majority is up for it.

Do you think you actually can find the black recruiter or do you want to think you can find him?

[Dekes]

lolololol that's deep, broseph.

Yep, because there's a huge difference between going with someone else's plan that could nab scum and simply following some inflated ego where the only solace is an "I told you so"-moment postgame.

@Andy
Let's wait for the votecount first. I give the odds of mods being in this game <1%, but the OoT endgame is just so fresh, you know?

[Dekes]

I also would be happy lynching Dekes (1. likely Yellow from foreknowledge that xvart was yellow before he even claimed 2.and his continued off play)

Oh, the mighty MoI. Reverting to OMGUS. Guess, that's why you haven't killed me yet, because you thought you could actually frame me because I caught you.
Then you better shouldn't have based your case on a blatant lie(1.) and some awfully vague statement(2.) which you seem to have stolen right out of AGM's read on you.

Because normal cults can’t. Should this be +1000 Black Lantern points for you since it seems to indicate you didn’t even consider how a cult normally works (ala inside information)?

So, ignorance of a rather rare mechanic I've never encountered makes me scum. Even better, I'm now black, although I was 100% yellow earlier in this post. You're making this too easy.
The limited flavor knowledge I have and dana's added intro post on D3 made me believe that Black Lanterns are working against every other Lantern section so I didn't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to recruit scum.

1. So the Mods would never reserve a popular character as a fake-claim? Derp.
2. The two green claims we have are John Stewart (Hider) and Sodom Yat (Odd Night Vig). Are they both scum then?

1. So far we haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise.
2. You think both are scum. What was the purpose of that question then?
But for you and the rest: Since we logically assume evenly distributed fakeclaims amongst the scum teams I see no problem with two fake green claims.

@tans
What kind of pro-town role is Unlynchability that goes directly into the night, thus robbing us from a potential scum lynch, instead of continuing the day?


So, are we massclaiming or are we just lynching scum instead (something I proposed about two pages ago )? Because the designated opening claimer is around now.

[Dekes]

It's not a blatant lie, at least from my POV. I know I’m not Yellow so your push to incriminate me as such even before xvart was revealed he was also Yellow could well be a case of your inside information accidently showing.

You surely didn't miss the conditional where I said that if xvart flips yellow there is a good chance you are yellow as well? Because your play on D3 was strinkingly similar to you play on D2. Can't be denied and seeing I wasn't the only one who caught it very much speaks for itself.
And regarding your statement that you would be a bad player if you chose not to bus your buddies into oblivion when they had a guilty on them: I personally do see the benefit of trying to prevent a lynch on your watcher and your ninja. And picking nipau as the counterwagon wasn't a bad idea at all since he's probably scum, too. But COMPLETELY ignoring the guilties on Katsuki while making a lot of effort proving nipau's claim wrong and the former ones both flipping yellow? No way you're not yellow.

@Andy
If what Kast is saying is true (supported by dana's statement) and we're not dealing with a 4-4-4-4-4-4-1 setup here, how will you be able to catch the black recruiter by color claim?

Also,

Vote: nopointinactingup

[Dekes]

I'm Indigo.

Color choices were Orange/Indigo.

Wow, great minds...

Same color, same color choices.

Guess that leaves Stove and Kdub. Kdub, if you're here before Stove is, feel free to go first.

[Dekes]

Theory:
If you look at the claims and the people who are probably scum, maybe we ARE dealing with an almost 4-4-4-4-4-4-1 setup after all.

If you take tans, nipau, MoI out of the list, throw in AGM instead of Kagelord and what's left? All 4's except for the green-blue discrepancy created by Kast who's definitely a good contender for the Black recruiter.


And now, Andy, work you magic! You've got all the claims, find us that Black recruiter.

[Dekes]

Well, if Toog was any indication, I fear, your goals tomorrow (game day) might differ from your goals today.

[Dekes]

But they don't have to go after scum necessarily with so much obvious town goodness floating around.

Anyway, I just pm'd dana something. I might be up for a regular scum lynch after that. But I definitely want to keep the Black recruiter topic around for a while today, make him feel nervous.

[Dekes]

Well, I advocate a Kast kill tonight. Dear scum, do us and yourselves a favor and rid ourselves from this nasty cult, thus giving each of us a decent shot at winning this game.

Seriously, what exactly are the pro-town benefits for being able to change colors? Maybe I'm just not seeing them, but I do see them for a scum/3rd party role to (fakeclaim?)-switch between two town colors.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: Almaster

@Tanstalas
Can you elaborate on your KageLord = Black recruiter theory?

MoI resorting to post game threats again...yuck.

Andy, that theory wouldn't match up with the Blues. Do you consider Kast Blue Lantern? Or even MoI? Either way you'd have three persons who claimed active abilites (Kdub, you and #3) and one VT.
And Almaster has a point. You still haven't delivered Black Lantern evidence. Who out of the remaining people falls into that category? One of the greens?

[Dekes]

AGM, you do realize that you are scummy even without factoring in any discrepancy in color claims? And the latest point culminating in blatant AtE didn't help either.

But I do agree that I wish this color discussion will come to an end soon and we go back to regular scumhunting. Andy, question from last page still stands.

[Dekes]

The presence of a Black cult leader throws the 4s/1 proportion out the window. What ‘evidence’ were you expecting from Andrius exactly?

If it's only the Black cult leader messing up with the 4's, we can still work from that angle.
And I'm talking about the evidence Andy was quite sure to get when I asked him back then if the color claim was really necessary today. Without getting closer to the Black cult leader we could've easily lynched one out of tans or nipau and waited with the color claim until tomorrow.

Nothing has been stopping you from doing ‘regular’ scum-hunting while the Color claim process was going on.

You're right, it hasn't been stopping me. But a lot of the town is too caught up in it. The lack of results so far doesn't justify the huge distraction it constitutes at the moment.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: Kast

Let's do this. There's so much convenience in his claim. Now that he's gotten under suspicion of being Black cult leader he claims a role that seems to make him invaluable if we want to catch Black/prevent them from spreading.
And he claimed the color switch would become effective immediately once triggered. So why would the mods wait a whole cycle to inform Kast of the change of his role? Because the black lantern secret is now into the open but Kast needed his fake "Black recruiting immunizer" today to gain credibility so he made this story full of holes up.


@Stove
What do you think of Kast?


And I still want to hear from tans regarding his Kagelord = Black cult leader theory.

[Dekes]

-I'll participate in a mass claim if that's the majority preference, but I don't see that it helps us that much.

This was in your first post. Nothing hinting at all that you could help solve the Black Lantern puzzle. You never once hinted you could shed some light into this matter until several people suspected you and you came out with this ridiculously convenient claim.
Hell, you could've even came out first thing and fullclaim if we assume Black Lantern don't have a kill. Scum would've definitely no interest in killing you off until the Black Lanterns are removed.
But what did you do instead? You brought up useless flavor speculation about how dead townies might be the solution to the riddle to keep us off track as long as possible and you argued to no end about that we're not dealing with a 4s-1 setup. And you know why? Because you are the only reason it's not all 4s.

@Andy/Kdub-
If needed, I can demonstrate my redirect tonight. With Stove claiming VT, that leaves Andy's "Blue Brother" power as one of you two (or Spyrex copying one of you two). I can prove my redirect works by sending that ability back to Kdub or Andy (unless you're assuming I'm a recruiter who can recruit AND redirect and who knows what else).

How stupid do you think we are? Honestly.
Scenario: You claim to redirect one of the town's action back to them, instead you recruit them. What will the recruited person do? They sure as hell will confirm you redirected their action back to them and "confirm you as town".

And now you are trying to overly justify your night actions by sharing a detailed thought process to make it seem as plausible as possible instead of simply saying "I thought he was scum so I RB'd him. Deal with it.".

Advice for next time: Don't fakeclaim something that is too good to be true.

[Dekes]

@Dekes-
-I'd much rather not have Black Lanterns trying to kill/

lynch

/Recruit/RB/do-anything-to me. Claiming from the get go kinda screws that up.

And what makes you sure, this won't happen while you're trying to prove yourself by redirecting tonight?

You are proving yourself to be very much
If KDub uses his power on unannounced target A, I redirect to Andy, then unless I recruited both KDub, Andy, AND target A, there's outside confirmation from two other people. Same holds with Andy and KDub switched.

Why did I know you'd specifically pick out this point?
This would just mean outguessing Andy here. Do you think Andy referred to himself when he was talking about the "Blue Brother" action or not? You'd only need to hit the Blue Brother for your plan to work. And even if not, this could just be you sacrificing yourself because you got caught and you're just trying to gain another night for another recruitment.

But, fine, let's try this: How likely do you believe is it that the Black cult leader is among the remaining players? Who do you think it could be and why?

Our guess is he's Yellow.

What makes you think that?
And why do you believe it's better to lynch yellow today instead of lynching off the last member of a scum faction/the black cult leader?

@KK
Does your flavor indicate in any way why you're part of the Blackest Night here?

[Dekes]

One other thing, Kast.
You say that KK made up a rather obscure name in fear of getting cc'd. So what does that make him exactly? If he's scum do you think he a) didn't get a mod provided fakeclaim, b) was provided a poor fakeclaim of a character not taking part in the Blackest Night that could expose him or c) ignored the mod given fakeclaim and made up his own?

[Dekes]

Posting from phone. Just a heads up, won't be able to post properly for another ~24 hours.

[Dekes]

I'm caught up now. I still think Kast is our best bet today.

Especially now that I'm having second thoughts about nipau. Yes, I know his claim is whacky as hell and his playing so bad he should be punished for it. But the main thing that's bugging me is his N1 claim. If he was action immune instead of hider why would he claim he hid behind Vi? That was sketchy as hell back then and he got a lot of heat for it but it is explainable after Vi's role got revealed. But unless he knew Vi's role why would he take such a big risk in lying if he could've claimed some other target easily? Maybe this was mentioned in one of the cases against nipau (MoI?) and maybe I'm just paranoid, I don't know.
Anyway, tans should get killed tonight. If he isn't orange, I guess I will settle for nipau then.


Kage, who is black then? You weren't exactly blackhunting today...or scumhunting at all except for that alibi-threat against nipau. Don't like your quietness at all today with all the black shenanigans going on. In the improbable event Kast doesn't flip black, scum and vigs should take a look this way.

Andy, how's the reread going?

[Dekes]

Kagelord is still way too quiet compared to his overall activity across the board. I don't know if yellow would really be trying to stay under the radar now with all the scum- and blackhunting going on that could help their faction get rid of a rival faction and could give them somewhat townie points for it as well.

Kagelord, once again, stop lurking. You said it'd be in town's best interest to lynch the black recruiter today but you never actually said who you think that black recruiter is . So, who is it and - in your own words - why?

[Dekes]

Sorry, Kast, I read the last part of your spoilered section first and when it said lynching you would mean a guaranteed town loss the rest of it became suddenly awfully uninteresting.

I'm willing to leave Kast alone today if we lynch between tans and AGM. And reluctantly nipau.

I disagree with people who say the more scum factions we keep alive the more probable cross kills are. Scum have no interest in reducing the suspect pool. If the pool of town people is still big enough scum will imo always try to kill off townies and get scum from the other factions lynched.
The only common interest scum have with town is eliminating black if black's wincon is making up the majority.

And btw, am I the only one who thinks part of why black may be such a big threat now is because the mason recruiter got killed Night one. I think he was probably supposed to act as some kind of a counter-cult for town.

[Dekes]

Dekes, you a PR with an active ability?

You could say that, yes.

@Kage
What do you think of Kast? Who do you think is black? You've been avoiding these questions for far too long now.

Other than that the game is pretty much dead today. We have our suspect pool, we have our lynch candidates. Andy, it'd be best to make a decision tonight and get it over with. No need to turn this into a deadline lynch.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: tans

Here's to hoping he'll flip something juicy like Orange.

[Dekes]

What color do you think tans will flip?

[Dekes]

Did we ever consider the possibility of Tans being Black recruiter? He obviously wants to buy himself another night and he must realize he's tomorrow's lynch if he's not getting killed tonight so he comes up with a ridiculous claim that
a) makes us hesitate to lynch him today and
b) he can't prove tonight but at the earliest in two days
And if you look through Toog's rather short Iso of D3 it's noticable that the only time he gives a town read/tries to clear somebody is tans right before nightfall.
Alternative theory is that they're both recrutee's (something I was leaning towards earlier).

Ugh, I really hate that cult.

Aw, fuck it:

Unvote; Vote: npiau

If tans is black, npiau is orange. I'd also lynch AGM who's almost confirmed red.
If scum want to have a chance at winning they aim for tanstalas or Kast tonight. If Kast is town he uses his super fantastic anti black cult moves and he's not to redirect anything tonight.

The only problem I have with this is the prospect of having to deal with tanstalas and Kast tomorrow if scum decide to be a cowardly bunch of pansies aiming for crosskills or PRs.

Ah well, no point in whining. If we lynch correctly three times in a row and then mess up once and lose because of that there's enough time to whine postgame.

[Dekes]

True, forgot about that. Leaves only the second possibility. Still curious why tanstalas is so desperate to gain another night.

[Dekes]

That's L-1, btw.

Npiau, any last words? Any possible info you gained about the scum teams that you might wanna share with the good people?

[Dekes]

Thanks, blue bros
I received some goodies from you tonight and I put them to good use, believe you me.

Still on the go, posting from phone. Bigger post later today.

[Dekes]

Was able to protect both of you instead of having to choose between one of you.

Kage needs to fullclaim today and Kast needs to report in.

[Dekes]

Correct, Andy.

And seeing I'm almost fullclaimed now. I protected Starbuck N2 and she died. Discuss.

[Dekes]

Anyone else immediately had an idea what happened to MoI's kill on Kast? But I'll let Kast talk before I weigh in on that.

While riding on the train I had a bit of time so I read through the thread for a while:

- dram actually pulled off the FoS: partner, Vote: other faction in his very first content post. Unbelievable, kudos for that.

- Reading through AGM's ISO, the common theme is that the interaction between him and his buddies was zero. Out of the remaining player list he didn't mention KageLord even once. Seeing Kage is up there right on the op of the scummy list there's a good chance he's the last yellow.

- Orange lies between MoI and tans, more likely the latter. Tans is so desperate trying to not get lynched that he's altering his claim whatever way he needs it to be to make it look like we need to keep him around one more day. I didn't follow Super Smash Bros. that closely but it seems tans has a predilection for fancy fake claims.
And the latest episode where tans tries to confirm himself by letting us direct his kill is pretty funny. If you're orange you don't care who dies tonight anyway.

- I really wish we had some kind of confirmation on The Stove. It's D5 and he's still a complete null to me.

Andy/Kdub, why did you give MoI the kill tonight? I hope that confirms him to you in anyway, otherwise I'm not sure I understand that action.

[Dekes]

Oh, Lordy loo.

Vote: Kagelord

At least tans is trying. And if he wants to shoot Kast for us I say "Let him.". He can get an honorary mention postgame. And taking out Yellow first is just as good.

[Dekes]

Having a kill, a protect and an investigation and waiting till N3 because "he didn't think he would get NK'd"? I think that's pretty much on par with Kast and tans here.

[Dekes]

I'm pretty sure KageLord is gambling going after Kast again tonight and if Kast won't flip JOAT we would be more likely to believe Kage's claim.

[Dekes]

So you have your meta handy right there. How convenient.

Let's hear from Kast first.

[Dekes]

A bit of (probably farfetched) theory coming up that I wanted to get out there before we go into night.

And I wanna state again that I heavily favor a KageLord lynch over a tans lynch today. I think tans will go after Kast tonight whereas yellow will probably kill me off tonight. This has nothing to do with self preservation but rather with keeping the confirmed townies alive. And I think Kage won't risk going after Kast again tonight. Yes, I said "again" again:

Last night I used my 1x redirect on MoI targeting KK.

That's exactly what I thought you would claim.

THEORY 1:
Dana is very generous with the flavor of the flips. KK's flavor indicates that he got targeted by two seperate targets. That would make AGM getting killed by Orange. MoI claimed to have targeted Kast and there's no reason to doubt that. Which leaves the yellow kill. Why would anyone target KK last night? Nobody expressed suspicion of him but Kast and KK claimed to be a VT so why kill him off if you're scum?
Here's what I think happened:
Kast
- either has an active/passive ability that makes all the killing attempts redirect to a target of his choice
- or he is the Black recruiter and to make life easier for him there's and ability that redirects all kills to one of his minions

Yesterday Kast said tans was likely SK if npiau is not and today apparently MoI was his number two choice. This looks definitely like Kast's is changing his reads and his claim according to MoI's claimed action.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kast got targeted tonight and The Stove turns up dead tomorrow as another black recrutee.

THEORY 2:
What if there isn't a black recruiter at all? Kast already went into a similar direction yesterday but I'm not talking about a mod controlled recruiting or some player from the grave having the power to recruit blacks. But what if an event - let's say Plum's death - triggered the black cult activation and all turned black in the same night? This is just in case if Kast doesn't flip recruiter but since he doesn't look any better today than he did yesterday that theory may be moot.

@Kdub
How certain are you that MoI is town?
And how does your power actually work? Can you cop and give a kill to the same person in one night?
Pedit: Nevermind then.

[Dekes]

@Dekes-
-You're saying you think both MoI and Yellow tried to kill me last night? Why would Yellow try to kill me instead of say...Kdub or Andy (or even claimed PR Dekes)?

Yellow was a two man team last night and had Tans (being orange in this case) as a definite lynch option. So they obviously had good reason to aim for Black instead of town.

-I think you aren't remembering right:

Orange- probable NPIAU, MoI, or Tans

Kage wasn't even one of my SK suspects, he was primarily a Red suspect, with AGM as potential other red suspect.

One post later you said tans was likely SK if npiau isn't and MoI likely yellow. There was no reason for you to change your reads from tans to MoI after npiau's flip.

Kdub and I can target anyone, but the power only works on town.

Sounds familiar

@everyone
What exactly is the case on tans being yellow? I see a much bigger case of Kage being yellow.

But if we lynch tans, then I guess there's not a lot to add but good luck tomorrow, guys. Kast -> Kage -> Stove (-> MoI), unless Night results indicate otherwise.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: tans

[Dekes]

Andy, can I get one of those wicked lantern images before I die?

[Dekes]

Swee....wait, that's not Indigo!

Ah, well, so is there something left to discuss?

KageLord hasn't been interested in scumhunting of any sort for days and is quite happy the tans lynch is going through leaving him out of the spotlight.

Tans will probably claim Supersaint Odd-Night Vig with One-Shot NK Immunity if we let him talk before anyone hammers.

Kast will call everyone black recruiter before we go into night and won't turn up dead tonight but has fantastic yet once again unpovable news for us.

Stove is busy in the Mini Normal queue, I can only hope.

The rest is town and happy.

Yep, I'm ready for the night.

[Dekes]

Agree with MoI here.

Though Kage claimed his name and actions until N4 already, I want to know what he did last night. He needs to claim first and then we'll go from there. Discussion after the massclaim.

[Dekes]

Wha-?

I don't think so, no.



Anyhoo, same procedure as N4. I got a shimmering blue gift and used it to protect the blue brothers.

On a sidenote, I've been rereading from D3 forth with heavy focus on KK, Kdub and Toog, and it's amazing how unbelievably wrong I was (and others, too) when it came to Lantern determination, yet apart from MoI I've only cast suspicion against scum so far. And we haven't seen MoI or Kagelord flip yet. Who knows?

Another thing I noticed:

For the record: Reck really deserves some credit if the red scum team really turns to be out as dram, Gud, Nopoint and Sensfan.

What the hell? Seriously, does dram talk in his sleep?

[Dekes]

Kast was

Sinestro (Investigation Immune

Blocker/Redirector

)

, leader of the

Sinestro Corps

.

Erm...

[Dekes]

He probably just blocked me.

[Dekes]

It's not you, Andrius, is it?

I actually like the theory that all black lanterns converted at the same time more and more. There has to be a limit on the cult. We've had 9 scums at the start of the game and we've seen 12 scum flip so far. There can't be unlimited black recruitings without the game being heavily imbalanced. Even if we had a mason recruiter to counter the cult to begin with.
Also we don't have a role to determine/discover the cult/cult members which is another factor why I think there can't be an ever growing cult.

My bet is on KageLord. Why?
1.

@KageLord: Post more.

This happened early D3 (the night after Plum died, btw). KK hadn't mentioned KageLord at all on D1 and D2. Several persons hadn't posted on D3 yet, namely Jack, TheStove, xvart (and SensFan). So what exactly was the purpose of this little sentence out of nowhere? Subtle hint to your newly acquainted partner to post more to avoid getting in the lynchbait pool? I vote "likely".
2. The setup: Yes, this will lead to a bit of tinfoil hattery on my part. We've seen exactly one black lantern from each town faction...except? The green lanterns. While this may be too easily breakable I think the pattern so far shouldn't be overlooked.
3. Kage's general behaviour: I could link you to some excerpts from his ISO, but I'm pretty sure you realized how hard Kage has been coasting for quite a while now and how he's completely desinterested in scumhunting and only following the main wagons/suspicions. Even though he once said our first priority should be looking for black he never followed up on this and resorted back to sheeping right after. He's only come out to post something of substance when being suspected and when he had to claim. Scum behaviour to a tee.

Regarding MoI's theory:
We could of course try again to lynch the mod. But we've already tried to vote the mods when the black cult was already in existence and the votes weren't registered. Also I'm pretty sure the mods said this game wouldn't be a bastard game (or did they? (yeah, I guess they did)).

[Dekes]

The one black kill per night seems to be just conincidence since we have claims for all three kills so far. Well, we have no claim for last night but it seems to be obvious Kast blocked me and killed Kdub.

And because it doesn't make any difference:

Role: Indigo-1 (*gasp* who woulda guessed?), Doc

N1: protected MoI
N2: protected Starbuck, target died
N3: protected Andy
N4: protected Andy and Kdub
N5: protected Andy and Kdub, Kdub died

[Dekes]

Tells of a Cult Recruiter:
1) unconfirmable actions
2) won't claim a confirmable PR
3) investigates town
4) no NK
5) will claim VT unless they have a good FC with with non-confirmable actions

You are aware that all those things apply to MoI as well?

If we go with the recruiter theory there's a good chance MoI has been recruited. If Kdub was recruited earlier than N3 AND he's able to pass his shot to other recruitees (scary thought) then it makes sense that Jack got the blue vig shot by Kdub N3 and subsequently it would mean that Kdub continued to pass on his vig shot to other recruitees (if this is true we actually have to thank Kast for redirecting MoI's kill to KK).

Suddenly MoI's suggestion to No Lynch became very shady.

The other person is The Stove who is not cleared by the cop if he got recruited/converted later than N1. And I'd like him to clear up why he came in here without leaving a nameclaim and instead asked if Toog nameclaimed. And I'd like that very soon.

Andy, don't you make me all paranoid and what not. You're the only one I can trust in this very, very dark night indeed

[Dekes]

*waves at not confirmed, but most obvtown Andy*
Don't get me wrong. I want to get Kage lynched just as much as you do. All setup speculation aside he's simply the scummiest guy out there. I'm just saying a lot of those points match MoI, too.
And I remember MoI getting cleared by both Kdub and KageLord. Something to remember.

@Kage
No, I don't think you're a JOAT. Just like Andy said I think you got Kdub's shot last night and used it on Kast to get yourself confirmed by Kdub. The only thing that you two didn't expect and messed up your plans was that Kast could block me and shoot Kdub. Because there was no reason for us to doubt Kdub was town you would've been seemingly confirmed, too and today's lynch would've been most likely TheStove.

And you're damn right I've been gunning for you these past days. AGM, tans and Kast were obvscum anyway, but we knew there was at least a fourth scum out there so I looked at the rest of the lot to find those hiding scum.
But good job on the half-assed suspicion against confirmed town only to backpaddle and admit it could just be OMGUS on your part.

Question: Why is Andy still alive? I'm not saying it's evidence of anything against him

Then why did you say it all? Another weak ass suspicion here. How about I protected Andy the last three nights? And you even said you also protected him N4. So why would he be dead?
Last night Kast apparently gambled - or he thought Kdub was the more dangerous out of the two blue PR - and decided to kill Kdub. And thank God he did (sorry, Kast, I called you black scum over and over again when in fact you were just helpful, misunderstood yellow scum).

Kage, upon your skimming did you come across somebody who you actually believe is black?

And now we keep on twiddling our thumbs waiting for TheStove and MoI to show up.

[Dekes]

Can't argue with that. But note that my clearing of MoI was just that he couldn't be non-black scum other than Godfather (i.e. he wasn't red, orange, or non-Siniestro yellow).

And here MoI joins your suspect pool
Why could he still be black after your "clearance"? Is your investigation only be able to incriminate yellow/red/orange? Or are you claiming you have inside info that black scum are investigation immune?

My question was more about why he survived last night. I suppose you could be right about Kast thinking Kdub was the more dangerous of the two, which is the reason I believed to be most likely out of what I thought of, but I still don't give it a high percentage of likelihood. Kdub over Town Leader Andy?

From a yellow POV? I'm pretty sure I'd kill the person who can hand out guns to town who are people being able to kill me at night and getting confirmed as town in the process. Nice try though leaving Andy in the suspect pool.

Tbh, no. I have 0 experience with cult mechanics and judging by the "tells" used right here, it is an awfully difficult one to tackle. If you want to continue with the idea that people were recruited for at least a day and then killed, I suppose the plan would be to check out which remaining player had certain relationships with the flipped members (and especially if there were any people that those members seemed to change opinion on, or lay off of, overnight).

Okay, another by quote by KageLord:

What? Shouldn't we, if at all possible, eliminate our enemy that

can

grow (i.e. black)? Of course, eliminating orange or red wouldn't be bad either, but the best scenario for us today is lynching black.

If you were really town interested in getting rid of black you would've at some point between this quote, which happened two weeks ago, and today trying to find anything that could help us determine who is black. The fact that you have zero speculation and/or clues as to who could be black shows very clearly that you weren't interesting in blackhunting at all, despite you claiming it should be the main priority for town.


So, last chance, because if you're town, you're losing this game for us if this is LyLo. Tell us everything about what you think of the black cult and who could be black.
If you're scum, good job on making it so far with minimal effort.

I’m almost positive that you are joking here but statements like this really make me wary. From Town-Dekes POV Andy MUST be confirmed not-Black recruiter. You’ve now claimed twice to received Blue colored motivation from him. And he’s been claiming Blue power for Days on end and obviously not been counter-claimed. He can’t be the Big Bad Black.

I was just irritated by how positive and optimistic Andy was at the time. Can't say I can share his optimism though I strongly believe KageLord to be black. Part of it has probably to do with my town record of 0-5 so far and that I don't think town deserves to lose this game at all. Of course Andrius sits atop my town list by far. But this is mafia and paranoia reigns here. The presence of a cult doesn't help alleviate this paranoia at all.

I’d like an answer to the following question – does your Point 2 suggest you feel more strongly that Plum’s death caused a 4 person Black Lantern Corp (1 from each color) to come into existence N2 than you do in the existence of an active Black recruitor?

When I was rereading this game with the focus on that theory I think there is quite some evidence that supports this theory. But its impact on today is minimal and it merely adds to the case of Kage being scum. The fact is we have to lynch black today and that is all I have to know at the moment.

Actually that’s possibly the worst line of thinking on recruits I could come up with. You don’t recruit someone who you think has any chance of being lynched. And my chances of being lynched were higher than any remaining players (up until the last Yellow flipped anyway) other than Kage.

Not yesterday. KduB had cleared you as town and we hadn't seen KduB flip so you were far from being lynch option #1 or #2 yesterday.

If I was looking at logical potential recruits you and Andy would be at the top of my list, followed by Stove a fair distance back. You both were under no lynch pressure and since especially since the mass color claim.

I agree here. That's why I believe more in the non-Black recruiter theory. Another theory I had in mind is that there is a Black recruiter but he is restricted to one possible recrutee per Lantern...which would mean that there's a chance of two black being left but only regular LyLo as of now.


So, that was probably more than needed to be said with a consensus on the Kage lynch. But eh, we've got some time to kill until TheStove shows up.

They have to move their asses in here

and PZ has to get his ass into the Mini Queue because I want to start my frigging modding debut

.

[Dekes]

Paranoia is good. Embrace the paranoia. Trust the paranoia. Believe in it.

13 scum in a 27 player game...no role to detect/prevent recruitings...that is all.


And yes, Kage you were that bad. Pressure = 0, contribution = 0, scumminess = 1000. Not immediately pressuring Kast after his JOAT claim? No way anyone was gonna believe you were a JOAT. I told you, you were gonna lose this for the town if you were indeed town. And what did you do? You kept agreeing with pretty much everything anybody said and came up with ludicrous theories (even whackier than mine). And don't act like you were onto something. When asked about you said your top suspect was The Stove and Andy being alive had nothing to do with him being black (that sounds wrong).

/bitter

GG, MoI and Andy. One fewer obvscum during D3/4/5 and MoI would've been lynched. Ah well, maybe better luck next time.

[Dekes]

MoI, did you have any restrictions to recruiting? Were you really bulletproof? And are you making all of this up and you are actually having good ol' fun with your blue pal at town's cost so we can all have a laugh together after Kage has flipped black recruiter?


And one more thing for the mods: We lynch five scum in a row and have a total of seven(!) scum crosskills/deaths during the nights and we end up in LyLo where we have to lynch the black recruiter or else game over? Get outta here.

/butthurt

[Dekes]

What? Cult wins with the town? Was that in black's win con or was that a last minute change by the mods? Mh, would still feel like a hollow victory, to be honest.

I had a response to MoI's post prepared, but I'll hold back on it for now (no, nothing insulting or anything, even the whining was kept at a minimum).

[Dekes]

I mean, if cult wins with the town what purpose had the last day exactly? The chance of a solo win for town?

[Dekes]

Nevermind. Kage didn't win. I guess I won a black then...

[Dekes]

Thanks for acknowledging the issues and admitting to some flaws in the setup, dana. Really appreciate that you're not trying to defend them. A x-shot limited recruiter and maybe a role that could specifically find black (censor would've been nice, for example) would've sufficed, I guess.

Were black able to recruit recruited masons?

I enjoyed this game most of the time. Just the ending was, well....bitter fits it the best, I guess. Overall, good job on the setup (minus the cult) and the modding, dana and Reaper.

I, too, would like to see all QTs.

[Dekes]

Andy, can I get some love for rescuing you N3? NPIAU would've shredded you to pieces if it weren't for my heroics. Props to SpyreX who(m?) I originally wanted to protect but he said he didn't want any town roles to target him thus selflessly sacrificing his own life so that Andy can live <3

I liked how both scumMoI and scumKast had to lie about what happend to them on N4. MoI had to claim a killing attempt on Kast with a vig shot he never received and Kast had to claim a redirection on a killing attempt that never occured. Classic.

[Dekes]

I didn't have to lie about that. From my QT conversation with Kdub I knew that he had targeted me and no-one else so I used the chance to incriminate Kast and gain some Blue Lantern driven Town cred.

Sure you had to lie. Kast claimed his redirected "kill" to KK first so you had to claim you received the gun and tried to kill him. That Kdub would back up the story is a no-brainer. Doesn't change the fact that you had to lie about the kill. Just thought it was amusing

Interestingly you can see that Kast's lie that Day confirmed to us that he was Sinestro if you read along in the Black Lantern QT.

I read through all the QTs. Very impressive to see your thought process throughout the game, a lot of times you were spot on. And nice additions by Toog, KK, Kdub. That I was in the recruiting pool for some time actually honours me but I really would've preferred to win with the town anyway. But then again, I guess most people feel that way.

The yellow QT was an interesting read as well. After LotR it's becoming more and more apparent that Katsuki is a much better player through QTs than what is seen in game. If Kats played a little less anoying and more like what I've seen in these QTs I think Kats wouldn't be seen as scummy and bad as much.

The red QT was just sad. Especially with the flaking of SensFan/replacements for several nights.

The dead QT was a train wreck after the revelation of the cult mechanic.

[Dekes]

You are certainly right there. Further proof how this game is already slipping my memory.