Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[KageLord]

1) Did you get the color you asked for?

2) You can N0 Vig anybody on the playerlist. Do you use your power? If so, who do you target?

3) If you knew you wouldn't be caught, would you cheat to win at a game where the only thing at stake was your reputation (e.g., if you win people think you are good at the game, if you lose people think you are not)?

4) You are playing a $100 game of ultimatum. In this game, the first player proposes how to divide the $100 between the two players, and the second player can either accept or reject this proposal. If the second player rejects, neither player receives anything. If the second player accepts, the money is split according to the proposal. You are the first player - how do you split the piles?

5) The same as question four, except now the game is being played with $1,000,000. How do you divide the money?

1. I don't remember if it was my first or not, but I know it was one of my top 2.
2. Since this game is thankfully lacking in VIs, I don't think I would N0 vig anyone on the list.
3. No.
4 and 5. Depends on who the second player is (i.e. if I know them/what relationship we have/what I know about their personality). But, if it is to be a complete stranger that I don't even get to observe, I would go 75/25 on the first one and 500,000/500,000 on the second one. The reason for the difference is that I don't care to be greedy with huge sums of money, but I wouldn't mind being greedy if I only stand to lose the opportunity to gain a small amount.

And Andrius, it is a bit different from Prisoner's Dilemma, but it has a similar concept. A major difference is that Ultimatum is a one-time thing whereas Prisoner's Dilemma is sometimes done multiple times. But, if we're talking just the one-time Prisoner's Dilemma, the difference that strikes me is that Prisoner's Dilemma has a clear optimum strategy of defecting (snitching on the partner) no matter what the second person does, but Ultimatum really depends on whether the second person is out for a maximum gain (in which case they accept any offer) or if they don't mind the "drag you down with me" philosophy. Frankly, Prisoner's Dilemma is about trying to lose the least and Ultimatum is about trying to gain the most and there is some measure of psychological difference there (which is why 99/1 isn't always the best for Ultimatum).

Anyway, sorry about that tangent.

Vote: xRECKONERx

for his solution to the ban on excessive caps.

[KageLord]

You guys post entirely too often in 24 hours. >.>

xRECKONERx [1]

- KageLord, nopointinactingup

This for real or a mistake?
_________________________________________________________

Anyway, I have skimmed what I missed and I'm cool with keeping my vote where it is. The only legit case I have seen has been against Reck (by xvart, with some help from Vi's case). Plus, his personal attacks on whoever makes a case against him are just annoying. Tbh, I have only seen scum or third party do that without real provocation.

And I'm okay with a color claim. dram's reasons for it were quite persuasive. One of the only things I've seen against it was that the mods probably made something to counter it, but we can't really know that unless we try.

[KageLord]

scum list:
starbuck
nopoint
katsuki

icky list:
xreck
spyrex

If Katsuki is on your scum list, why not include Reck and Fate, who Katsuki claims are alignment-confirmed masons with him? That claim really only makes me want to lynch Reck more considering we kill multiple birds with one stone. If he flips town alignment-confirmed mason, we have 2 confirmed townies. If he flips scum, we have a great place to look for buddies. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a Katsuki lynch either for a lot of the same reasons as Reck. Not to mention the ridiculous way he attempts to dodge tanstalas's inquiries.

I am also sick of our good ol' alliance to be frank. It makes it difficult to get a real read on any of them because you have to wade through their purposefully poorly worded posts and it is difficult to tell what is serious and what is not. Also, I have personally seen where close buddying like this has thrown town into big trouble (i.e. where Fate assumed NachoMamma was town and trusted him implicitly, helping the scumteam containing myself and Nacho).

P.S. KageLord where art thou.

I'm pretty sure my last post was within 24 hours of this one. I really don't think better should be expected at this point in the game. School and social life prevent more frequent posting in a real game.

[KageLord]

y halo thar KageLord.

If Katsuki is on your scum list, why not include Reck and Fate, who Katsuki claims are alignment-confirmed masons with him?

That's probably because Jack's actually paying attention. And if you really believed those three were masons, I'd expect you to be raging about unnecessary claiming. But you're not. so

Sad that you clipped out the paragraph below that about how annoying the alliance is and how it is difficult to tell when, if ever, to take them seriously. I'm leaning toward the "never" answer. But, if I could convince people to vote them based on the bs masonry, I would be overjoyed.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a Katsuki lynch either for a lot of the same reasons as Reck. Not to mention the ridiculous way he attempts to dodge tanstalas's inquiries.

Show dodging plz.

Katsuki ISO 21 (this one only somewhat), 25, 26, and the pair of 29 and 32. Too lazy to link.

I'm pretty sure my last post was within 24 hours of this one.

I'm pretty sure you have 3 posts in 23 pages. I dunno what you think you can accomplish at that post rate.

1. How many pages there are is irrelevant if big chunks of most pages are fluff or personal attacks (or calling another post fluff without saying why, which I consider fluff).

2. As I read, the page count is much less because of the above and because there are some things that I skim to the point of nearly completely ignoring them (obviously unless something raises a red flag). For example, knowing Reck, unless he shows proof of a 100% guaranteed scumslip from someone, it is very probable that I won't be swayed even the slightest by anything he says. And I think that the reverse is probably true as well (Reck could only care a very little bit less about anything I have to say).

3. I have classes and personal stuff in real life, so I don't really care if how much I post seems like often enough for you. As long as I'm posting in every 24 hour window, I don't think there is any room for complaining.

Also Starbuck opinion while you're at it would be faboo.

-PZ

I would have to do an ISO or see someone's compiled case to decide. To be honest, a lot of the bs "cases" (not to say the one against Starbuck in particular is bs) have mixed together into one big annoyance for me. xvart, MoI, and yourself are some of the only people here whose logic (or lack of showing any) I don't personally find great fault with.

Sorry if any of this sounded abrasive, but my last class and the good ol' alliance have put me in a foul mood. And I'm not even entirely caught up on the thread yet. Oh joy.

[KageLord]

After skim of N1 and D2, Sens, NPIAU, Kats, and Steph are pretty darn likely scum. Starbuck's reasoning for Katsuki seems good to me and I detest scum watchers on principle (thanks to an old Mini), so my pick for the first to go would be VOTE: Katsuki

@Mod

The Stove is voting Kats.

[KageLord]

Serious night action shiz going down now. This is getting interesting.

I'm not scum. Claim yourself Andy.
I'll be back asa I'm done with a few DotA matches

Andrius you ducking dumbass. I'm untargettable by any night action if I hide. My role PM specifically states so and I'm trying real hard not to Caps my letters. Way to go, you just revealed part of your role for nothing.

Sooo... he tells Andy to claim and then sarcastically congratulates him on claiming? Also, I would probably buy that he is completely untargetable, but I'm wondering why he didn't bring this up right after Andy's reveal on his pseudo-Inventor thing. Obviously if he's going to look like scum there is no reason not to bring this up (as it doesn't give scum any handicap to not know this) immediately instead of waiting for Spy to give him an excuse and then say it's true.

Ok, before this gets out of hand:

Whatever mysterious powers I have I targetted him with N1. I

immediately

got a result that I thought was going to be damning based on said procedural constraints.

However, the hider claim gave me pause. But I still wanted him lynched because of his claim.

Then, Vi's flip made the other part slide into place.

So, to be scum, he's got to be a mastermind that is amazingly lucky as well.

YET, lets look at how many damn times he's been a day-play.

Don't fall into the trap.

We can revisit it and, chances are, he DOES have to go before lylo.

That isn't today. Xvart is scum and I know why.

The only way this works is if the result you got was no result. I guess we will have to trust you on that for the moment.

Now about xvart, are you sure enough that you would take a vig bullet or tomorrow's rope if you're wrong?

[KageLord]

Ha. Nice.

I still want Spy to answer though.

[KageLord]

Fine by me.

I just wanted to know how sure you were. I find that making this check is useful as in the case of Fate or SpySpy, when they say they are 100% sure, that is more like 50%. I doubt either would be willing to put themselves up for death without being completely sure though. Good to know.

VOTE: xvart

[KageLord]

So wanna explain the case on me there, Andy?

[KageLord]

Kage, I'm following Spy's lead on you right now.

lol so your reasoning for me as prob scum is that I'm on SpyreX's list for trying to ascertain how sure he was about xvart. At least you're honest about it.

@ KK: You're going to have to take my word for it at the moment. I was going to say that the only way he could be scum would be if he is a SK, but the necessary evidence for this to be true has not come to light, so I am taking him at his word. And if he were scum he probably would have just pushed the nopoint lynch after I pseudo-outed myself.

I suppose we will have to trust you. But why do you reject the possibility that him and nopoint are scumbuddies?

[KageLord]

Also, Zito pointed out that Kage, Sens, and Dram all supported a color claim on D1. Sens and Dram were red-scum. Kats, yellow scum, also supported it.

We postulate red scum had some mysterious reason to get mass color claims, Kage falls in line as red scum potential. Kast fits scum profile, lots of IIoA, flavor business, minimal actual production for the game. Seems to have avoided input on the xvart wagon, just the vote when everything was laid out.

-AG

Interesting. I went back and checked and that does seem correct. But, where that falls apart is where Reck, Spy, and kind of Vi were in favor of it too (and Andy said he was warming up to the idea).

I agree with The Stove, MoI is probably our best choice for a lynch. I'm kinda of scared now though, in the comics the black lantern corps were made up of heroes that were DEAD right? If dead people start coming back...

Eh, we have no idea how the mechanic is going to work here. Especially since it appears that Toog (who was alive) had been converted from Violet to Black.

I want to hear what happened with Andy and NPIAU before deciding on MoI.

[KageLord]

EBWOP: deciding about MoI.

[KageLord]

So, I have a question for everyone while we wait for the missing posters. Given that dana said that the only things we know for sure about the setup are in the OP so the earlier find of 4-4-4-4-4-1 might not be true, do you still think it was 4-4-4-4-4-1 (without the black shenanigans) and why?

[KageLord]

OH WAIT. IF, IN FACT, THE SETUP IS 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 THEN WE HAVE OUR TOWNIES.

lol wait whut? I is confuzzled. Didn't you just say such setup speculation was useless?

And my previous question does have some point. It's just not as worth it if I reveal what the point is before people answer.

Andy, quick question, and if you feel it would not be in town's best interest to answer don't feel the need to, but are you aware beforehand of the abilities provided by the goodies you send out?

Prev-edit: tans... I'm not sure that that makes any sense.

[KageLord]

Yellow are KageLord and MoI.

I agree with your yellow choices, sir.

Oh Reginaaaald... I DISAGREE!

But srsly.

I'm not that against mass claim, but I'm not sure how much it will help. I assume scum have at least 1 RBer remaining and am almost 100% sure that they have believable fakeclaims.

[KageLord]

Then I'd like to refer to this one once again:

GREEN: 3 dead, one to go (ONE OF TANNY AND NOPOINT IS SCUM) which also means whoever claims Hal Jordan is dead.

And the flavor question still stands. Is there a color that most likely would contain the black recruiter, i.e. is there flavor-wise a Lantern that the black recruiter generated from?

How much of a flavor geek are the persons currently around?

Pedit:
Nothing else to add, Kagelord?

If there's something specific you want me to comment on, I'd be glad to. Otherwise I don't see much that has changed since I last said anything.

And to answer your question, I know almost nothing about the Green Lantern series. Before this game I only knew Hal Jordan and Sinestro (didn't even know there were other lantern colors besides green and yellow or that Wonder Woman apparently has a lantern ring now).

[KageLord]

Do you think you actually can find the black recruiter or do you want to think you can find him?

lolololol that's deep, broseph.

[KageLord]

My role HELPS PEOPLE. It actually reduces Night Kills if you guys didn't butt in and made me claim. I'd love to be in your "town club" but it seems you don't trust fellow townies too well. Fuk Andy. TELL ME YOU DIDN'T TURN BLACK OVERNIGHT?

Not a very good argument for helping people. It helps yourself. At most we would be saved from 2 kills if both red and yellow scum, for some unknown reason, thought you were townie enough to top their kill list (doubt it). Also, there would be the possibility of wasted town vig shots to balance out those 2 missing scum kills. Overall, the only one that is sure to come out ahead from that role is you (which is not in the Green Lantern spirit).

And I get that it's a flavor argument and thus based on speculation about the mod, but dana seems really into the Blackest Night series and it's doubtful that he would give a Green Lantern that kind of role.

[KageLord]

@Color-claim-
Ok, one point that I've been unsure about sharing, my role suggests we may have a color cop of some sort (also possible it's a red herring or I'm over analysing my role).

I'm just going to partial claim this in case it helps; if we end up doing the mass full-claim I'll reveal more at that time:
-I started the game as one color with the one time ability to change to another color (permanently). From this, I'm guessing color matters as a game mechanic (initial guess is some kind of color cop). If we do have a color cop, they would find scum even without a mass color-claim.

From flavor, I could see other possible color changes...but some of those possibilities involve scum colors. If we're doing the mass color-claim, I can claim my starting color and the color I can switch to. I'd prefer holding off on my current color until a mass full claim, though that's a weak preference (it probably won't matter, but not immediate claiming may have benefits).

I'm wondering where this color cop has been then. He should at least be able to confirm some townies for us (though I suppose that's not the best thing at this point considering the number of kills per night). And with a bit of a stretch my role info might corroborate the possibility of a color cop.

@Andy's question: I'd rather go with NoPoint.

[KageLord]

Popcorn to tanstalas. If you already claimed then repost it and pick somebody else.

For real, dude? He has not only claimed his color (which he brought up again multiple times because he believed not being CCed on Green confirmed him) but also his character and abilities. Now, I'm still very inclined to believe that it was a fakeclaim, but still... you should probably know this by now.

[KageLord]

Whatev. The sooner I get it over with the better.

Good thing I saw the preview before submitting... *just cut super-awesome claim from post*

[KageLord]

Whatev. The sooner I get it over with the better.

Good thing I saw the preview before submitting... *just cut super-awesome claim from post*

It's only a color claim...

I know... but it was a super-awesome color claim.

[KageLord]

KageLord was going to claim Black Lantern.

Tactics.

[KageLord]

If we mislynch a town today then it doesn't matter whether there is one less kill or not at night.

Wait what? Why would there be one less kill if we mislynch town?

Anyway, it seems like you're the one that's trying too hard.

My turn to claim or KK first?

[KageLord]

Someone just go so we can get back to playing the game plz.

I'm still not sure I see the point of this FTR.


-PZ

Kk.

I'm

GREEN

!

The reason I didn't claim this earlier is that it is seeming more and more unlikely that we are in a setup with 4s (this is also why I asked my question earlier this day that only one person answered >.>) and my claim would only help scum figure out my role.

I'm Hal Jordan.

[KageLord]

Now, in a similar thing to the Blue Lanterns, we got a special color font. But, it's not the one used above or the one that dana used in the OP (I don't know if he used a different one on purpose or not). Nopoint, and nopoint alone, what's the color code?

[KageLord]

Oh whoops. Thanks for the reminder.

I had to look this up in my sent messages and I'm just going to be completely honest about it. Green and yellow. Reason: I figured those two would have the juiciest roles (besides SK, which I didn't particularly want to try for the first time in a game with people I know to be good hunters).

Prev-edit: Uh oh.

@RC/dana:

do you consider posting the color code (numbers/letters, not actually putting that color on your post words) in your role PM as disobeying either of those rules?

[KageLord]

@Kage

– Kast makes a very valid point below …

These don't really match. Seems unlikely that xvart would lie about color picks while claiming scum.

It is always important to take the words of a confessed scum with a grain of salt but xvart being proven correct about Sensfan says that the portion of his statement regarding players ending up with Yellow who didn’t choose it is probably truthful.

Your thoughts?

It is admittedly an interesting point. Since I'm not a mod though, I have no clue why they wouldn't pick me as yellow if some of the actual yellows didn't pick it. The only guess I can make is that they didn't pick green and more greens were needed (and since green was my first choice it took precedence). Or, far less likely, dana didn't want to see me play as scum in another one of his superhero games.

From a slightly more WIFOMy standpoint, why would I claim yellow as my second color if I was actually yellow? I have seen people guess you and me as the remaining yellows, so I don't see any reason for yellow scum to further relate themselves to that color. It would have been much easier to claim any other color (even red) as the second choice.

[KageLord]

VOTE: nopointinactingup

I'll unvote if he can post the correct color code for the color in his role PM (it's just a bit different from the color in the OP, but he should be able to find it by quoting the PM and obviously not posting that and checking the code of the PM).

[KageLord]

Well, 'twas worth a try. Either the fakeclaim includes the color (which is not unlikely) or he's telling the truth. Could easily still be the former, but I'm just a tiny bit less sure now.

[KageLord]

Oh.

Unvote

for now. Still have to decide on nopoint or tanny.

[KageLord]

KageLord, you an Operative? Y/N is fine.

The theory looked okay, and would confirm me... but it's incorrect. I'm not an Operative.

If we are doing massclaim, I would be willing, but I am thinking more and more that scum have full fakeclaims and I'm not sure that knowing my role would help us much. My role will probably work better if scum don't know it tonight.

And I'm hoping we still have a doc left out there especially if we are going to massclaim.

[KageLord]

We have to take the reins and eliminate one of our fractured enemies. Especially an enemy that can't grow.

What? Shouldn't we, if at all possible, eliminate our enemy that

can

grow (i.e. black)? Of course, eliminating orange or red wouldn't be bad either, but the best scenario for us today is lynching black.

Andy, you probably talked about this already, but do you still think tans is sure scum if you weren't RBed?

[KageLord]

So Andy... NPIAU or tans? Both are almost sure scum, but I'm not sure which is which (i.e. which color) so I'm okay with either. I'm fairly sure that neither of them are yellow, so we should be getting rid of an NK either way (or a recruitment if we're lucky).

[KageLord]

@Kage
What do you think of Kast? Who do you think is black? You've been avoiding these questions for far too long now.

Not obvscum, but likely. I'd put him 3rd or 4th on the to-kill list (after tans/NPIAU and maybe AGM). As for black, I would put my money on AGM for that at the moment. But I'm clearly not sure enough to try to lynch him before tans/NPIAU.

Btw, I am sure that MoI is Blue or Siniestro/Godfather.

[KageLord]

I think he could flip Orange, IMO. KageLord has always been the Yellow candidate in my mind.

Well then your mind is wrong.

I'm a

JOAT

. I have/had 1-shot Protect, 1-shot Investigate, and 1-shot Vig.

Night 1: No action. Too many people to effectively use any of them, I thought (plus not likely I was going to be NKed).

Night 2: No action. Same reasoning as last time with the added bonus of us having a great candidate already.

Night 3: Investigate MoI (because logic dictated he shouldn't be alive past Night 2). Got the result that he's not Red, Yellow, or Orange. This is why I later said (Day 4) that he's either telling the truth or Siniestro - Godfather.

Night 4: Protect Andy. Might have worked (or double protected if Dekes actually did get a protect through).

And there you have it. I was considering shooting tans or AGM last night, but I thought tans would die already and I figured protecting town leader was more important right now than shooting probscum.

Needless to say, I think tans needs rope today.

[KageLord]

Having a kill, a protect and an investigation and waiting till N3 because "he didn't think he would get NK'd"? I think that's pretty much on par with Kast and tans here.

What would your approach have been?

And if you don't beleive that is something I would do as town JOAT, check out Mad World Mafia. It might still be on the first page of the Theme Park. I'm not particularly proud of how I played in that game, but it should show you at least how I play JOAT.

[KageLord]

believe* >.>

I'm pretty sure KageLord is gambling going after Kast again tonight and if Kast won't flip JOAT we would be more likely to believe Kage's claim.

"again"?

[KageLord]

Alright, so... apparently people don't like announced V/LA. Sorry about that. Would have announced it in-thread if it wasn't night (or better yet I would have posted my actions with my first post anyway).

Night 5: Shot Kast. Duh. So basically I am now VT Hal Jordan, having used all of my one-shots. And no, Andy, I did not receive any gifts from you. Or from the other blues. That makes me a saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad panda.

I've only skimmed today, wanting to get this claim out before someone gets overeager, but I'll have to check back on Dekes's case on me. Based on the theory that there is no Hal Jordan in this game or that Hal Jordan is Black Lantern Recruiter? Funny how Dekes has been gunning for me for a while now. Coincidence that I've been probably the easiest mislynch for the past few days? Probably some OMGUS thinking on my part here.

Easy way to think about this (at least from my point of view): Is anyone else going to claim shooting Kast last night? If not, your theory becomes that I am Hal Jordan (or FC Hal Jordan) - Black Lantern Recruiter and at least 1-shot vig and that Kast didn't kill anyone last night (this is based on there being a Black death every night since they were announced, which leads me to think that we either have some insane luck or that Black kills and Black's wincon might be a certain number of members, even dead ones).

Question: Why is Andy still alive? I'm not saying it's evidence of anything against him, but I just want to know what everyone thinks is the reason because I can't think of any good reason.

[KageLord]

Ooooooh hey KageLord!

We know you shot Kast. The problem is you aren't a JOAT. You're lurklurk Black Recruiter, playing is safe and staying under the radar, expecting when all the yellows to be dead for the pressure to release and us to go hunt somewhere else. All of your claimed actions are non-confirmable, ESPECIALLY with Kdub being in your team from as early as N3 (which would still make sense with Jack killing SensFan). As long as Kdub was recruiter before N5 (most likely N4 IMO) you would have gotten his gun and shot Kast, both 1) killing all scum-opposition and 2) confirming your JOAT-ness. You HAD to recruit him eventually; you didn't claim ANY actions until N3; why? To avoid having to lie about your real actions (recruiting our born-and-bred townies).

Well, as you said, unconfirmable. So I can't defend myself against this point as it's all about speculation. Confused here though: do you mean to say non-town can get blue gifts? Also, do you mean to say that we (town) have just been lucky enough to kill Black every night thanks to some vig and/or scum killing black repeatedly? Also, the theory does assume that I knew for a fact that Kast wasn't actually a JOAT (if he was and I killed him, I would get screwed).

[sarcasm]But you're right, KageLord, you're totally right. Since I'm sooooo ovtown and am still alive I MUST be the Black Recruiter, right? [/sarcasm]

Clearly I didn't say that.

*waves at not confirmed, but most obvtown Andy*
Don't get me wrong. I want to get Kage lynched just as much as you do. All setup speculation aside he's simply the scummiest guy out there. I'm just saying a lot of those points match MoI, too.
And I remember MoI getting cleared by both Kdub and KageLord. Something to remember.

Can't argue with that. But note that my clearing of MoI was just that he couldn't be non-black scum other than Godfather (i.e. he wasn't red, orange, or non-Siniestro yellow).

@Kage
No, I don't think you're a JOAT. Just like Andy said I think you got Kdub's shot last night and used it on Kast to get yourself confirmed by Kdub. The only thing that you two didn't expect and messed up your plans was that Kast could block me and shoot Kdub. Because there was no reason for us to doubt Kdub was town you would've been seemingly confirmed, too and today's lynch would've been most likely TheStove.

And you're damn right I've been gunning for you these past days. AGM, tans and Kast were obvscum anyway, but we knew there was at least a fourth scum out there so I looked at the rest of the lot to find those hiding scum.
But good job on the half-assed suspicion against confirmed town only to backpaddle and admit it could just be OMGUS on your part.

lol I don't know that I've ever heard a backpedal call on statements in the same paragraph, but okay.

Question: Why is Andy still alive? I'm not saying it's evidence of anything against him

Then why did you say it all? Another weak ass suspicion here. How about I protected Andy the last three nights? And you even said you also protected him N4. So why would he be dead?
Last night Kast apparently gambled - or he thought Kdub was the more dangerous out of the two blue PR - and decided to kill Kdub. And thank God he did (sorry, Kast, I called you black scum over and over again when in fact you were just helpful, misunderstood yellow scum).

My question was more about why he survived last night. I suppose you could be right about Kast thinking Kdub was the more dangerous of the two, which is the reason I believed to be most likely out of what I thought of, but I still don't give it a high percentage of likelihood. Kdub over Town Leader Andy?

Kage, upon your skimming did you come across somebody who you actually believe is black?

And now we keep on twiddling our thumbs waiting for TheStove and MoI to show up.

Tbh, no. I have 0 experience with cult mechanics and judging by the "tells" used right here, it is an awfully difficult one to tackle. If you want to continue with the idea that people were recruited for at least a day and then killed, I suppose the plan would be to check out which remaining player had certain relationships with the flipped members (and especially if there were any people that those members seemed to change opinion on, or lay off of, overnight).

But good job on the half-assed suspicion against confirmed town only to backpaddle and admit it could just be OMGUS on your part.

Again, this was definitely ascumtell. Mainly flailing. "are we suuuuure Andy is ovtown? How about Dekes? anyone but me?"
Surprised he didn't bring up Stove's non-name-claiming deal.

And it doesn't seem odd to you that out of all players I would attempt to throw suspicion on obvtown? If I was final scum close to being nailed, I would almost certainly go for Stove or MoI before you two. Though, tbh, I would have recruited Andy at the first opportunity.

GOOD POINT, DEKES.
KageLord_Recruiter: "Why is Andy alive?"
Dekes_Ovtown: "Because you protected him?? (and I did too, y'know)"
Andy_ovtown:
KageLord_Recruiter:

But the protection was apparently blocked at least last night. >.>

Btw, Andy, can you remind me of how you confirmed Dekes to yourself?

[KageLord]

Can't argue with that. But note that my clearing of MoI was just that he couldn't be non-black scum other than Godfather (i.e. he wasn't red, orange, or non-Siniestro yellow).

And here MoI joins your suspect pool
Why could he still be black after your "clearance"? Is your investigation only be able to incriminate yellow/red/orange? Or are you claiming you have inside info that black scum are investigation immune?

Everyone but myself is in my suspect pool (there is no way for myself to 100% guarantee that anyone but myself isn't black). By process of elimination (and hoping Andy wasn't recruited earlier), my top suspects have to be Stove and MoI though (in that order). And yes, my investigation returned only that he was not red/yellow/orange as I stated when I first claimed it, I believe.

My question was more about why he survived last night. I suppose you could be right about Kast thinking Kdub was the more dangerous of the two, which is the reason I believed to be most likely out of what I thought of, but I still don't give it a high percentage of likelihood. Kdub over Town Leader Andy?

From a yellow POV? I'm pretty sure I'd kill the person who can hand out guns to town who are people being able to kill me at night and getting confirmed as town in the process. Nice try though leaving Andy in the suspect pool.

Eh, you have a point. I guess from a yellow PoV it would be about how comfortable I felt about whether town would misvig (which is best of all for yellow, obv) or vig black.

Tbh, no. I have 0 experience with cult mechanics and judging by the "tells" used right here, it is an awfully difficult one to tackle. If you want to continue with the idea that people were recruited for at least a day and then killed, I suppose the plan would be to check out which remaining player had certain relationships with the flipped members (and especially if there were any people that those members seemed to change opinion on, or lay off of, overnight).

Okay, another by quote by KageLord:

What? Shouldn't we, if at all possible, eliminate our enemy that

can

grow (i.e. black)? Of course, eliminating orange or red wouldn't be bad either, but the best scenario for us today is lynching black.

If you were really town interested in getting rid of black you would've at some point between this quote, which happened two weeks ago, and today trying to find anything that could help us determine who is black. The fact that you have zero speculation and/or clues as to who could be black shows very clearly that you weren't interesting in blackhunting at all, despite you claiming it should be the main priority for town.


So, last chance, because if you're town, you're losing this game for us if this is LyLo. Tell us everything about what you think of the black cult and who could be black.
If you're scum, good job on making it so far with minimal effort.

Well, that early quote was really more of me trying to get the town's actual hunters to do that. I had and have no faith in my ability to culthunt. But you have a very good point there. Don't be too hasty with the rope and hopefully I will be able to do what you asked.

I think I brought this up before, but what do you think of the possibility that black kills as it recruits (i.e. black's wincon is to gain a certain amount of members by killing them, kind of like a magic kill number for an SK) based on the flavor of Black Lanterns being dead/using dead people? Absolutely impossible? Very unlikely? Maaaaaaaaybe? Definitely possible?

[KageLord]

Well... can't say I blame The Stove much. Sure the vote was quick, but I did deserve it. superlol at Dekes though. Apparently I wasn't quite as bad as I thought when I actually did say something.

Interested to hear from the mods now.

[KageLord]

Second, town's PRs were a little too slanted to taking out the scum teams and SK rather than the cult. In retrospect, I would have allowed KageLord's cop ability to find black without specifically mentioning black in his role PM. Again, though, I'm not sure this would have changed anything.

Out of curiosity, why do you think it might not have changed anything? I mean, nailing the black recruiter N3 sounds pretty game-changing to me.

Also, was there any significance at all to the idea of rings getting taken away in the role PMs or was that just for flavor?

[KageLord]

2. How do you suggest we had nerfed the cult, Vi? If we had not given the bulletproof to Magna, the faction integral to the flavor/surprise would have died N1. And as it is, nobody targeted him for any kind of kill after that, or tried to lynch him.

It would have helped if Black (as a whole) wasn't normal investigation immune, as dana already said.

Funny though how town could have lost without even one mislynch if tans had killed a townie instead of AGM. Even though we had him pretty much sold as scum, we would need this last day to get rid of the last scum (and then black recruits into majority anyway).

Well done, MoI.

Sure the vote was quick

It had to be.

I was hoping for a black recruiter flip, town win. But in the back of my mind I was also hoping for the possibility of a no-lynch-recruit cycle if I was wrong. You'd already picked Stove as your top candidate, so.

I do, profusely, apologize to the town for fucking up at the end though. So much so that I'm even splitting my infinitives.

No-lynch-recruit cycle?

I don't really get why that means it had to be quick. If it's black recruiter you wanted, you could get that at any time of day. I didn't expect you to vote before I got back on otherwise I would have at least made my last defensive push:

1. Blackest Night game without Hal Jordan? He's dana's avatar, he's in the OP image, and he's the main character.
2. GREEN HAD NO LEADER?!
3. If everyone wanted me lynched, that almost guaranteed I wasn't recruiter if you believed in 3:2 as you said you did. Black is boned without recruiter, so there's no way they would push that wagon.

#2 is probably the clincher. And yeah, I did say The Stove was my top suspect, but I clearly wasn't going to vote any time soon and I said MoI was second.

I don't blame you though. Twas my own fault.

[KageLord]

Actually... maybe I can't count #2 at all. The only flipped town faction leader is me. So that only applies if you were the leader of your faction and thus knew that town factions could have leaders too.

[KageLord]

1. Blackest Night game without Hal Jordan? He's dana's avatar, he's in the OP image, and he's the main character.

1. Harry Potter game without Albus Dumbledore?

It had Harry Potter though, didn't it?

[KageLord]

No revealing faction setups pre-game this time round please.

That was what REALLY killed the balance of the game if you ask me.

That, of course, and the fact that the factions WERE balanced like that.

lol but apparently fear of your comment about not trying to go by that is what saved it for the first 2-3 days. Then again, I suppose if we had mass color claimed early the SK would know exactly who to go after anyway (so our only hope would be to kill SK early or protect some certain peeps).