A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[diddin]

Unvote; Vote: DGB

I'm not seeing the usual aggressive scumhunting/unfounded declarations in the vein of 'x is town and y is scum' that I expect from a pro-town DGB. The LMP vote is weak and hasn't been followed up on, which makes me doubt how scummy DGB found either of the things she based it on.

Meta cases on Page 3? lol no

/waits for ChessKid to come in and create 10 pages based on why people should mass nameclaim for governer status.

Mini Theme != large theme. Shut up.

Unvote

Vote: Shadow

Go read Pirates mafia that just ended, this idiot blew it in LYLO in a spectacular fashion.


..GreyIce is also scum. Fake "lol i don't trust anyone but me" is fake.

Raise: Dana

<3

Don't really like this either. It just looks like you want to lynch him for his bad play and don't even think he'll flip scum.

@TS: Frankly I don't like the ability and probably don't even want it to be used. It basically a WIFOM situation if a townie uses it on a scum player and that scum flips.

@hasdgfas 97: Did you just do the macorania (or however you spell it) o_o?

Did DGB just claim scum

:headdesk:

Not liking GreyICE at all. His talk about having everyone vote him is nonsense for the hand raising. The Hand ability DOES, in fact, have uses for us whether it goes to town or not. Now that the mod has confirmed scum cannot use it for instawin LYLO, it gives us more information by giving it to out biggest townread than a guy shouting HEY I'M TOWN I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG MAKE ME THE HAND.

Post 88 is a weak attack too. Using lame Wiki tells like IIoA and not liking someone's use of stats while not explaining WHY the stats are bad at all. If anything calling Magna on IIoA is hypocritical because your post contained little ANALYSIS of MoI's statistics.

Vote: GreyICE

BTW are you an alt?

Raise DrippingGoofBall

DBG has actually been my biggest townread so far in this game, don't know about anybody else.

[diddin]

@Magna: Because it's hypocritical from chesskid. Benmage, IIRC, is a known idiot hater/policy lyncher, while it is hypocritical to hear someone like chess expressing desire to lynch someone for poor play.

[diddin]

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

DGB doesn't make sense. As town or as scum. I have personal experience with this from Stars Aligned II. Nulltelling her.

$10 says Hasdgfas is faking his post restriction. It's cute, but it's also nonsensical from a setup POV. Undecided on scumminess; not enough information yet. Nulltell.

Don't like Benmage. Don't like "Mow down all the VIs." Don't like DGB's #166 treating it like a towntell.

This thread requires Percy, xtomx, and Feysal posting. And more Mikujin. And...well, too many others. But let's start there.

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

1) don't do town lists too often anymore unless replacing in or good reason. I read towns posts not lynch em. I can do a scummy list if anyone cares, but the tldr is dgb is top. Plus I answered shadow question in earlier post.

2) Dun know dun care. She is reading scum to me. And your WIFOM theory is just bad.

You are not concerned with the part of mafia that is "trying to convince other people that you're right"? If your DGB case has merit, do you not expect that hasfgdas would be the first to recognize it?

Unrelated to the DGB/GreyICE/hasfgdas brouhaha, I don't like Diddin's #132 . It's mostly attack without adding anything of value, but then caps it off by saying DGB is the largest town read, which makes my head hurt. I read this as "attack chesskid, attack GreyICE, buddy DGB".

UNVOTE: Percy
VOTE: diddin

ITT having townreads is scummy.

Can Wallbanger give me one good reason that we'd lynch hascow today? Just one? His posts are lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

More immature namecalling from GreyICE.

unraise, raise:Benmage

His cocky aggressiveness right out of the gate reads town to me, moreso than DGB.

Quit bitching about MOI's posting style ICE. Just because you can't read/don't like his posting style doesn't mean he's going to change it. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[diddin]

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

[diddin]

ITT having townreads is scummy.

ITT, having an unjustified townread is scummy.

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

Die self-contradicting scum.

Unvote Vote: Magua

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

You're raising someone who has stated they want to policy lynch VIs, which is pretty equivalent. Please explain why one is FoSed and one is raised.

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

[diddin]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?

Because I'm voting DBG, and she's an easy target. Riiiiiiiiight

[diddin]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?

Because I'm voting DBG, and she's an easy target. Riiiiiiiiight

Oh hey look, sarcasm. That's original!

...The argument "you said they were town. Then you said you want them dead, therefore you are scum" is an argument i've seen a bunch of times before
It's a scum argument.

Please explain to me how it's not a scumtell then.

[diddin]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

yes. You're well known on this site and your opinion is very influential to people.

@Magna: My point is that most players considered VI are wanted to be vigged because it's hard to tell whether they're town or scum. Vigbait players can usually very conceivably flip town or scum, but DGB outright states she thinks ICE is town. Plus I'd HARDLY classify GreyICE as a VI. He's annoying, yes, but he's no VI.

Also Magua never said he thought Sparkle was town. He just said he thought their reads would be similar, and as such, Sparkle would use the governor ability in a way Magua likes.

[diddin]

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

So, you think that, phrasing it the way I did, I expect the vig to listen to me, rather than himself?

Answer yes or no.

yes. You're well known on this site and your opinion is very influential to people.

But GreyICE is on my town list. You're expecting that a vig will interpret the mixed message of "vig GreyICE-town because he's irritating" as "vig GreyICE?"

See, I would think the vig, or anyone, would think "haha, yes, he's irritating." And vig someone else of their choosing.

What is the purpose of even saying that if you don't want people to agree with you? I also fail to see how VIG THIS PERSON is a mixed message. At all.

Plus I'd HARDLY classify GreyICE as a VI. He's annoying, yes, but he's no VI.

SHOW ME where I said GreyICE is a VI.

You never did. I was making a comparison between what you said and Benmage's push to lynch all VI's.

[diddin]

Regardless thats something that could even still be discussed once a Hand was made. Especially if they took a turn for the worse.

In fact, I'd prefer we raised a hand before we discussed this. If we all agreed that the hand was meaningless because we're just gonna force them to burn it, then the raise votes have less meaning.

Agreed. These raise votes show a lot about connections between people and shouldn't just be treated like nothing.

[diddin]

@Zdenek: The whole point is that Meta is a pretty crappy foundation to build a case on. It's almost as bad as the joke votes and it looked like Locke was reaching for straws to get DGB lynched. The point of my wikitell attack is it's a lame scumtell that makes someone like GreyICE look smart by calling it out. Besides MoI was not really using IIOA. He very definitely explained where the statistics were from and why they are useful. That's no Information instead of Analysis.

And yeah, ICE analyzed the stats a bit, but did you miss this post by Magna?

As for your datamining, it's obviously worthless. One player voted themselves instead of another, and it would be 40% scum voted self, 33% voted town. A swing of one person would reverse your so-called results. That's below the noise level, and no useful data can be gleaned except that scum are reasonably good at blending in with town - when there's no useful ability to be gleaned. That was true in CoK. Do I trust it's true here and now? No.

Dismissing that any possible information can be gleaned from information in a similar past game is short-sighted.

Honestly, I really want to kick you. A 25 person sample is nowhere near enough to get below noise on anything less than a 30-40% difference. I'm glad you brought it up now, because there's a chance you could derail a scum wagon with an argument that fucking poor. If you have any more terrible statistics that are below noise level, please don't share them with us.

Did you miss the part where I said the real important data would be mined at a deeper level? Ok thanks. And the little strawman you throw out here about ‘derailing a scum wagon’ is noted. You are pre-supposing how the information would be used when there is no evidence that it would be used in that manner. Especially since, as I said in that post, the likely relevant trends from Clash have been rendered useless the discussion already.

I notice you didn't address my response to your statement that your all-caps statement about scum seeking to raise Partners. Do you really think they would go out of the way to immedaitely draw links to each other?

Was a rebuttal of ICE's original comments. Yet all ICE did in his reply to that was sling mud at MoI.

Besides HE IS GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION D1 HE MUST BE TOWN is pure, pure WIFOM.

The fact that you think I'm scum for attacking one of your townreads is utter crap and gets you a big fat

FoS

.

Back from my V/LA –

Also Magua never said he thought Sparkle was town. He just said he thought their reads would be similar, and as such, Sparkle would use the governor ability in a way Magua likes.

Magua clearly implied that by mimicking his own thought processes (which Magua implicitly is claiming is a Town perspective) his read on Sparkle was Town. Attacking him for not explicitly saying such when it was clearly implied by the writing and Raise vote itself is scummy.

Diddin is correct. I don't have a townread on Twilight Sparkle. I do believe that if Twilight Sparkle is town, they and I will have similar reads (eg, we both have a townread on GreyICE). So if Twilight is town, I would expect they would use the governor similar to how I would. If they use it otherwise, then that's a good indication for me that they're scum.

tl, dr: I'm using raising to get a read, not using reads to determine who to raise.

Thank you for answering this, all the people white-knighting for you was starting to get annoying.

This question was not part of my case on you. I was purely curious.

By the way, what is your opinion/defense of your contradiction that I caught?

P-Edit: I fail to see how "I agree with this guy on a few points but since he attacked one of my townreads he's scum" is a stronger tell than what you presented against MoI, Zdenek.

[diddin]

By the way, what is your opinion/defense of your contradiction that I caught?

I assume you are referring to this:

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

Die self-contradicting scum. Unvote Vote: Magua

My suspicion of you is not based on you having a townread, it is based on you having a townread on DGB, something that literally no one else does, and that I find to be more than a little incomprehensible. When I call you on it, instead of backing up *why* you find DGB to be a townread, you make a sarcastic comment of "ITT having townreads is scummy", even though that's obviously not what I said.

Unraise: Twilight Sparkle

Raise: Percy

Based on what? Your only Raise before this was your first post, and if Percy had done anything to warrant a Raise you would have changed it prior to him needing to be prodded and his announcement or being sick so limited content.

Twilight Sparkle has stated that they would throw the governor away. That's a terrible use of the governor, so I have no further desire for them have it.

Next on the list of people who I think having the governor would be helpful in reading is Percy, so it's really the same reason as I raised Twilight Sparkle in the first place.

So you can have unexplained townreads on people because other people also think that townread is town, but I can't have townreads that nobody else does? Horse. Shit. Besides I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only soul in this game who had a townread on DGB at that point.

Speaking of which I find DGB's suspicion of has to be a little odd. I understand how he could be scum based on the "things he can and can's say" argument, but I find her push to get has to break his PR to be scummy for reasons others have stated.

Diddin, there is nothing wrong with the fact that you attacked GreyICE, it is the nature of your arguments that I have a problem with. Moreover, the bulk of the reason why I think that you are scummy is for the reasons already pointed out by Magua.

Did you read my reply to your accusation that my attack was weak? Do you have anything to say about that? Also you're admitting to sheeping Magua which is just BAAAAAAAAAAD (groan).

vote: Mikujin

For being the last to self-raise.

raise: DGB

For pointing out how stupid it is to self-raise. We all get that you want to tell us you're town and you trust yourself. It doesn't even need to be stated. Now start trying to play the actual game.

^Case in point for Magua.

[diddin]

So you can have unexplained townreads on people because other people also think that townread is town, but I can't have townreads that nobody else does? Horse. Shit. Besides I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only soul in this game who had a townread on DGB at that point.

I'll say this once more, and then I'm not going to respond to anything else on the subject.

You say you have a townread on DGB. I find this unusual/downright illogical.
I call it scummy.
Instead of responding with *why* you have a townread on DGB, or trying to convince me of your townread on DGB, or any of a number of other things, you respond with a sarcastic deflection ("ITT having townreads is scummy"). That, right there, more than anything else, has marked you as scum in my eyes.

Also, hasdgfas, please put a vote up.

*looks at vote count*

My bad.

My point was that you were attacking me just for having a townread you didn't agree with. What's the problem with that? I admit that the DGB was gut, but what's so wrong about that?

[diddin]

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

I thought you were scummier after I ISO'ed you too.
I'm not reluctant to vote, I just happen to like my vote on Thor(Song).
Here's my scumreads- Thor,Feysal, MoI, and Bunnylover.
If Feysal is still alive after Thor flips scum, he should be next to hang.

Having said all that i like GreyICE's case..
.

Unvote, Vote: xvart

unraise, Raise:GreyIce

Lol what. xvart isn't even on your scumlist, you just look like you're sheeping GreyICE here. ICE's case is also crap as others have pointed out... looks like you're looking for an easy wagon.

The user named "Song of Ice and Fire" got replaced out of a ASoIaF game. That is not a good sign for that slot.

Exactly. Why would someone named that get replaced? She was obviously stoked for this game, but got caught as scum early.
@LMP- it was from them posting they thought they were scum when they saw their role.
It was not from a green dream that gave me special knowledge.

This is reaching for straws at its finest.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Song of Ice and Fire

This is his first mentioning of Song in his ISO. He starts crusading for a song lynch at this point without posting an explanation for a day. The problem is Raivann's unexplained vote on Song was posted on Thursday, but his reasoning was taken from a post Song made on Friday.

unvote, Vote: Raivann

I like this lynch.

@zoraster: This is actually a different posting style for me. I've just started getting into reading threads with 2 tabs open so I can respond to quotes as I go. Before quote walls were a rarity for me and a lot of my posts were only one or two liners.

[diddin]

@Diddin- Did you see songs post?

This too is my first big game on mafiascum, though I have played tons on other sites. I just couldn't resist the theme

VOTE: xvart I like 8, and you stole it from me.

Here it is. So you voted Song for talking about her game history and an RVS vote?



Raivann's switch back to Thor after the xvart wagon was proven to be crap is scum looking for an easy wagon, then backtracking.

I would support a dayvigging of Raivann or Magua.

[diddin]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

This looks like bussing to me.

zoraster ISO 23 also looks like "Vote: townie FoS: scumbuddy" to me. He expresses suspicion on Raivann there but then, in ISO 25, he goes back and says he doesn't recall seeing a good case on Raivann. He then finally jumps on the wagon a few posts later, albeit with a fair explanation.

I like zoraster for a potential Raivann buddy, but since what I feel about him relies a lot on Raivann's alignment, I want to lynch Raivann first.

@Magna a few pages ago: Take a look at my ISO 4.

[diddin]

oh look Raivann is slinging mud at me now... how cute

[diddin]

Magua your "online but not posting in this game" argument is total BS. We all probably have had times that we could only post in one of our games or didn't post in a game. People do it regardless of alignment.

[diddin]

I am sad that Zoraster has been on-site to post in other games, but hasn't posted here.

I am sad that every single one of Twilight Sparkle's heads have been on-site, two of the three posting in other games, but haven't posted here.

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: Zoraster

It's not outright stated but this looks like a weak attack on Zora to me.

[diddin]

@MOI: The reason you are voting Zoraster is not the reason others are voting him. The reason others are voting him, you have said only strengthening your read/vote on him.
Here the situation I see:
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips town, what happens to Raivann? Raivann still will be lynched because his post have been bad and scummy (I think one has been good). Isn't that right?
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips scum, what happens to Raivann? Raivann is lynched because the FOS Buddy - Vote Townie theory is strengthen. Isn't that right?

If we lynch Raivann and he flips town, what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is thrown out the window and scum now have to come up with another mislynch.

If we lynch Raivann and he flips scum. what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is strengthen and Zoraster is lynched due to it.

The most logical sense is to lynch Raivann.

Nothing has given us reason to believe their are multiple scum groups, so no. But if in the book their were different enemies family fighting in their, then I believe we should believe that their is multiple scum groups.
But No, I don't believe their are.

@Twilight Sparkle: I see no reason why to doubt that Hascow is town now.

Bolded is a scumslip.

Still prefer the Raivann lynch, but I will switch to Zoraster if all necessary.

[diddin]

Bunny's insistance on lynching Raivann today is scummy.

unvote, Vote: zoraster

. His claim is obv. scum. Bunny's slip has also been noted by myself and others and Bunny still wants Raivann lynch. That makes me lose quite a lot of faith in the Raivann case.

[diddin]

Has has big brass cow balls. I played bad.

Seriously, this game was great fun to watch and play while I was in it. I was obviously rooting for my scumteam to win the whole time.

[diddin]

I would like to blame Andrius for making advances on me in the Dead QT.

I'll pre /in for AFFC if it's not a Cult game like I vaguely remember hearing a while ago.

[diddin]

I need to stop dying? I figure if I play bad, I deserve to die and can learn from that.

[diddin]

<3

You better /in for my Fire Emblem Mini when it's in signups.

[diddin]

There are still 20 or so folks in the Mini Theme Mod Queue so probably not for a few months.

In the meantime you should signup for UT's Desert Mafia if you really want to play with me.

[diddin]

So yeah this was a fun game to watch.

Is the Fire emblem mafia game you guys talking about one of the earlier ones or a bunch of them in one or based on path of radiance/radiant dawn or what exactly? (i've only played most of the way through path of radiance)

The first one will be about FE1 (the one with Marth), but I'll be making a PoR game in the future if this goes well. I don't have enough modding experience to do Larges yet, so I'm saving the more popular ones for when I can.