Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

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Hey julien; long time, no see, here's a vote for old time's sake.

Vote: julienvonwolfe

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Mod: I will be V/LA from Thursday until Sunday.

All: I plan on having a substantial post up before I leave.

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Unvote
Vote: bvoigt

Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

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I'm back from V/LA; gonna catch up now.

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Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

Little suggestions by whom? bvoigt or others?

By him:

Anyway, if PoisonIvy had received a town PM, she'd know that the win condition is

not

"You win when the Soviets are dead."
VOTE: PoisonIvy

Hm, the problem with the ivy wagon is that as scum her PM should have her against peaceful players, not against Americans or soviets so her assuming that the set-up is Americans vs soviets makes me honestly think she just didn't read it all that closely

Look at the rules post, though:

[4] A possible mafia win condition is: "You win when only Soviet players remain alive or nothing can prevent this"

Well I think that was an example, the actual win cons (unless there are various non-conflicting ones which doesn't make a lot of sense) are about peace and war, not nationality.

Really? Is that what the actual scum win conditions are?

This is a good catch.

Reading him in iso makes me think he's trying to hard to be seen as a verified townie. And I don't like how he's completely ignored my vote.

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Responding to prod. I apologize, life's been crazy. I have to go to work now, but I'll catch up real-life tonight.

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As promised, here is my case on Furcolow, hidden with spoiler tags because of its length.

That's a fairly convincing case.

I'll also mention that in 426, he FOS's bvoigt, who I still think is quite scummy even though others apparently haven't seen it, and I suspect this is bussing (not in anticipation of a bvoigt lynch, but rather "clearing" bvoigt in the event of his own lynch). His mention of "bussing" in that very post makes me suspicious also, even though admittedly there's WIFOM there.

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Steph's replacement

nah, I'm still here. I know I haven't seemed particularly useful so far, and for that I apologize. I'm going to try my best to step it up.

I agree the game sorely needs a claim. I'm going to vote Amrun for now, although that vote is subject to change, because the wagon on ThAdmiral seems super town to me. I'm not looking to be a sheep, but I can't help but consider that. bvoigt and Furcolow, my top two suspects, are on this wagon also--so the claim/flip would be interesting to me.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun

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I agree the game sorely needs a claim.

That's fascinating, because we were talking about a lynch, not a claim.

Please note that I was responding to RedCoyote's post 585 in particular, and in that post he discusses the need for a claim.

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So your sole reason for voting for me is you think other people are scum?

Of course not. I think reasonable cases have been put on all three of you, and obviously our hands are being forced to pick a wagon. I was merely thinking through potential outcomes, and posts like that can be handy later in a game even if I'm not still alive.

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Now that Furcolow has claimed bulletproof, is there any reason he shouldn't fullclaim?

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Why has Furcolow not fullclaimed? Since he claimed bulletproof, is there ANY good reason he shouldn't fullclaim?

There is *no way* a "Cold War" game wouldn't have Joseph McCarthy in it. But "General McArthur"...ugh...but, if there are no other McCarthy claims, I believe it.

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this is good info.

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That was a total slip by Bunnylover. I don't see how he wouldn't be the lynch now; I'll be away this real-life weekend, so it looks like this is the last thing I can do with my vote today.

Unvote
Vote: bunnylover

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Probably vig, given the other two targets.

Does GhostWriter/hohum seem like a likely target of a pro-town vig to anyone? I didn't think he was scummy.

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Does anyone have any possibly-valid reasons why Furcolow's not busted?

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Well I'd be more sure that Furc was scum after his slip if I wasn't a Russian town-aligned player myself.

Name claim: Mikhail Bulgakov, yeah kinda random.

I just read his entry on Wikipedia, and I can't help but wonder why in the world he would be in this game...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bulgakov

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Vote: Furcolow

He's been the obvious lynch since the beginning of today.

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Vote: Furcolow

He's been the obvious lynch since the beginning of today.

Yet you hardly provide any reasons.

Does anyone have any possibly-valid reasons why Furcolow's not busted?

Why don't you look into your own vote on furc and provide us reasons why he is busted.

Ehhh, I'm not going to restate what others already caught just for the sake of being high on your list. Furcolow has provided ample evidence that he's the right lynch, I just wanted to be certain.

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too many lurking bastards for JFK to handle ATM.
But if you leave me alive during the night, I'll be happy to oblige.

Are you implying you are going to kill someone?

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If he were is this something you should be drawing attention to?

Absolutely. It was a blatant statement, and softclaims are bad. I think he needs to say exactly what he meant.

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Stephoscope- It feels like he's skating by on the outskirts of the game, and not really doing much scumhunting of his own.

I'm not going to claim that I've been able to be one of the more useful players so far, but please explain why your statement apparently puts me into your "scum" category.

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Well, posting a low amount of content is an easy way for scum to avoid suspicion. I don't have a problem with posting infrequently, but when combined with your relatively short posts....

(WIFOM ALERT) If I were scum I'd be posting a lot more. I'm more interested in the right lynches than making myself look good. Furcolow is the right lynch for today, for reasons that have very clearly been defined, and I just want to see his lynch as opposed to sitting around. My gut feel is that many of the scum have been exposed and that they're milking this time to plant as many seeds of doubt as they can.

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Amished's numbers are pretty convincing. Nice work by the replacements.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun

L-2

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Dear people with killing abilities:
You suck because Furc is alive.
This situation must be remedied immediately.

Vote: Furcolow

THIS (although I'm in no hurry for the day to end)

Unvote
Vote: Furcolow

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Smarg today, bvoigt tomorrow - let's do this.

Does your plan change depending on how smargaret flips?

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Unvote
Vote: smargaret

So, smargaret, who do you claim to be?

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Even though bvoigt is probably scum, I have to agree with him here. I believe smargaret's claim.

Unvote

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@Steph: Why do you say I'm "probably scum?"

I explained toward the beginning of the game why I found you suspicious. If you were scum then, you are still scum now.

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New plan: bvoigt today, gonnano tomorrow.

vote: bvoigt

That sounds delightful.

Vote: bvoigt

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@Steph: Why do you say I'm "probably scum?"

I explained toward the beginning of the game why I found you suspicious. If you were scum then, you are still scum now.

Has anything happened to strengthen you read? This is a terrible comment because it is referencing someone's level of scumminess based only on early evidence and applying that early evidence as a constant throughout the game. I bet if one flips scum the other is, too. Stephoscope is clearly trying to establish that she has been advocating for bvoit's lynch all game, while the original case is very unconvincing:

Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

Reading him in iso makes me think he's trying to hard to be seen as a verified townie. And I don't like how he's completely ignored my vote.

This is the "case" that indicates that bvoigt is scum forever and ever??? From the seventh day of the game no less. I think we might have found two scum buddies. I'm going to have to think about this a little and read a few more things. I might be changing my vote shortly.

Ummm scum probably does remain scum forever and ever in this game. I'm not going to build more case on bvoigt based on later things that I don't really think are tells; that would be tunneling. In face I will go so far as to admit that he and I have advocated several of the same positions (Bunnylover's lynch; nachomamma claiming; unvoting smargaret). But I did get mega scum vibes from him in those first few posts, I still trust my gut, and my gut says he is scum. It can absolutely be expected that if he was pegged as scum early on, even if a bandwagon didn't start up, he'd be extra careful going forwards.

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Steph's most recent post smacks of lazy scum - if he's already built a "case" on someone, why does he need to build it again?

Well, that's not at all what I'm thinking, and not at all what I said.

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Stephoscope

- what did you think of Artem/VP before he died?

I didn't think he was scum. Artem seemed pretty town to me, and VP's case on Amrun seemed completely solid.

I really don't understand why you seem to think I'm scum and I'm bussing--

I really do want bvoigt lynched ASAP

--but whatever.

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Per ThAdmiral's suggested plan.

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

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It is worth noting that there was no "poisoning" nor "removed from bunker" last night. Is there anything we can deduce from that?

Vote: bvoigt

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It is worth noting that there was no "poisoning" nor "removed from bunker" last night. Is there anything we can deduce from that?

Vote: bvoigt

OK, I'm understanding something I wasn't understanding before. Had to think it through.

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Can we please lynch bvoigt today?

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Do you have opinions on anyone else?

Like you, I'm not sure I understand the Fonz wagon. I remember losing to him once when he was scum, though, so I'm going to go back and see if anything seems to match. Stay tuned.

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Do you have opinions on anyone else?

Like you, I'm not sure I understand the Fonz wagon. I remember losing to him once when he was scum, though, so I'm going to go back and see if anything seems to match. Stay tuned.

I have done this. I'm not seeing a lot in common. Fonz is obviously a very capable player in any game, but in the game where he was scum he stressed defensiveness-isn't-a-scumtell and pairs analysis, whereas in this one he's advocated Lynch All Liars.

I am not saying this comparison clears him by any means...more saying that I went looking for evidence, and didn't find much.

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smargaret is town. No question.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

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OH HAI "I don't really find Fonz scummy, but I'll look for an excuse to jump the wagon if it gets close to lynch."

Did you miss my statement shortly afterward where I said I looked into it and found nothing?

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smargaret is town. No question.

And that would make me scum because...? I obviously don't think that there would have to be scum in our neighborhood at all.

I feel that there is something off with this statement. You voted smargaret when she was wagoned, and unvoted only because you believed her claim. Now you're voting me, another neighbor, because of what exactly? I'm reminded of gonnano and his stances about Amrun and Bunnylover. He was really stretching historical truth when he tried to make Che Guevara look less like a threat than Joseph McCarthy. It all makes sense now. I think that his win condition was indeed to kill all non-Soviets, so he would gain nothing from Bunnylover's death. Either that, or he genuinely thought Amrun belonged to the other scum team. I feel that you could be NATO scum, and you'd want me dead rather than smargaret, because my death furthers the NATO scum win condition while smargaret's doesn't.

Your neighbor knows you better than anyone else. Once I'm convinced your neighbor is town, if she's voting for you, that's good enough for me.

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Responding to prod. Hopefully Feysal shows up soon. I'm not sure that I have anything to add right now.

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Nice job Fonz, especially towards endgame. Thanks Sotty!