I have quite a bit of reading to do, but for now I'll unvote, since I have no idea yet what my predecessor's vote was about.
Preview edit: beaten by Sathoris. No matter.
Furcolow #121 wrote:You know, instead of voting me, you guys could ask me things
When you were being wagoned, you wanted to be asked questions. However, when questions were asked, you kept dodging them and often called whoever questioned you scum, like smargaret in that above quote.Furcolow #222 wrote:I am here, ready to answer any question.
I don't see how I am dodging anything important.
If you feel smargaret is important, I guess we aren't on the same page, as I don't cater to scum.
So, instead of the excuse you used to get out of answering smargaret, you're trying to use another.Furcolow #487 wrote:I was going to have to use the "you're just mad because I beat you as scum, so you are improperly riding my ass and viewing me in a different light than you were going to be" defense. Thanks for the defense, I don't even feel a need to post a detailed defense now.
Considering I'm in multiple games, and really split up my time terribly, having just read a Feysal-wall that wasn't meant to break the game but was really derived from a policy-lynch is completely different than I have seen out of him as town. I feel like it was scummy and ill-motivated. What do you think, bvoigt?
I'm not really sold by this. What MoI and HH did was not much of a gambit, they just claimed not to know scum had daytalk. All Furcolow would have to do here is claim ignorance, and truth be told, Furcolow being ignorant would be completely natural. Even he would've understood that claiming knowledge that the scum had no daytalk would've looked bad in his position.bvoigt #483 wrote:He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players... I really don't see Furc gambitting like that.
What ad hominem?Furcolow #532 wrote:First off, thanks for the ad hominem. Still resentful that I bested you as scum? I thought so.
Refusing to answer questions based on who is asking them is never wise. For one thing, you might be wrong with your suspicions, and not answering questions is simply anti-town. And by the way, I find it odd how your read of me has changed. Only yesterday you found me scummy, and tried to get support from bvoigt. In this post, you've said you believe I am town, and that you're still not really sure.Furcolow #532 wrote:Anyways, on to your puny case. Smargaret is scum, if someone who is town wants to ask me questions (like I believe you are), I will answer them. I made the rest of my post, just to come back to this one. I knew this would take the most time, and I wanted to answer fully and not strawman.
The reason there is a difference between you and smargaret in terms of me responding is because I wasn't really sure about your slot. I am still not really sure about your alignment. The size of your posting screams town, but the wrathful-vengefulness of wanting to lynch someone for a prior finished game just doesn't suit you, Feysal.
You really don't think you've been acting scummy in this game, despite much of the town voting you for it?Furcolow #532 wrote:If you really, really believe that I'm scum trying to twist your words into something they're not, and out-rhetoric you linguistically or through my superior dialect, I guess you're not familiar with my scum play as much as you believe you are. That is the only explanation I can find other than you pursuing something you needed to do a game ago... not in this one.
I can say that I'm positive that claiming either our names or nationalities this early would be a bad idea. Also, this really was not the impression I got when you spoke against claiming. You said you did not believe we should say where we are from, not like you wanted us to go further and claim our names too.Furcolow #532 wrote:1)I am for nameclaiming, not countryclaiming. If we are going to claim, I want it to be fully. I do not like lukewarmth.Feysal #497 wrote:1. What caused the flip-flop in your attitude toward claiming? You started by vaguely role fishing, then spoke against claiming, then suggested claiming yourself.
It is not a flip-flop to me, regardless of how others see this.
First off, using self-meta is never a good idea. It is worthless at best, and scummy at worst. And apparently I do know your meta better than you do, since I could link to two of your recent posts where you, as scum, either acted exactly the same as you claimed to act as town, or acted the way you claimed you would not act as scum. You were at the very least misleading in your use of self-meta, if not outright lying.Furcolow #532 wrote:2) I did not feel I was lying about my meta. I guess YOU know MY meta more than ME? Is that what you're implying? Because I'm not buying it. In fact, I'm not buyingFeysal #497 wrote:2. Why did you lie about your meta? I've seen two cases where you used self-meta to try to appear town, when I have seen you behave exactly the same as scum. In fact, I have seen you behave that way only as scum.anythingyou're selling. Your questions feel weighted, forced, and a day late and a dollar short.
It was your timing. The first time you called smargaret scum was when you refused to answer her. You had answered her questions before, and you had said nothing about suspecting her. That made it look like a horrible excuse to avoid answering.Furcolow #532 wrote:3) I have explained that it is just a suspicion. Why do you care? NachoMamma/ScottBrosius/myself/I'm sure other people are just gut-style suspicious of her. I don't feel like she is adequately scumhunting, and I feel she is fishing for good easy bandwagons and is trying to drive a mislynch by stroking the fire. Her comments scream caps lawkz, and her tone is faked and doesn't feel town to me. I don't know how else to explain it. I'll admit it is weak, and it might just be personal bias.Feysal #497 wrote:3. Why do you believe smargaret is scum?
I like to hear reasons for votes when they are made, not after the fact. That said, I should have a closer look at all three of them before commenting any more.Furcolow #532 wrote:4) I did provide reasoning for voting gonnano, even if I voted him RVS style at one point. You must not have really read my ISO or my posts in context. I unvoted ThAdmiral, and have even been defending him since that point. His response to my pressure-vote was adequate in proving to me he is likely town - he doesn't post like that when I've seen him as scum. I am very familiar with his play. My vote on jmj is because he is actively lurking and promising when he isn't delivering. I'm more than willing to replace my vote on him on D2, or even to tack it on to him if the Amrun wagon dies out... he could easily be scum with all the excuses he has been dishing out.Feysal #497 wrote:4. Why did you not give reasons for suspecting ThAdmiral, jmj3000 and gonnano when you voted them? Did you think it was reasonable to vote jmj3000 for not delivering, only two hours after his promise of content?
Saying you want someone lynched out of the blue really is not an effective way of pressuring them. You just made yourself look like a fool, and when you said you had no read on him you made yourself look scummy. There are right ways and wrong ways of getting reads, and this way was definitely wrong.Furcolow #532 wrote:5) Just because I vote someone, or say I want them lynched, doesn't mean that is even the case. Hence why I've said my admiral vote was a "pressure-vote", my DavidParker FoSs were more pressure-FoSs, when I really had a null read on him. I have no idea as to his alignment. Since then, I've been leaning town, but I'm not really positive. He could easily be scum having fooled me.Feysal #497 wrote:5. Why did you want DavidParker lynched? Why did you lie about saying that all game? If you wanted him lynched, why did you not vote him? How could you want him lynched when, according to your own words, you did not have a read on him?
I already did in my Furcolow case, here they are again:ThAdmiral #563 wrote:Could you pls? I would be interested in seeing these.Feysal #539 wrote:First off, using self-meta is never a good idea. It is worthless at best, and scummy at worst. And apparently I do know your meta better than you do, sinceFurcolow #532 wrote:2) I did not feel I was lying about my meta. I guess YOU know MY meta more than ME? Is that what you're implying? Because I'm not buying it. In fact, I'm not buyingFeysal #497 wrote:2. Why did you lie about your meta? I've seen two cases where you used self-meta to try to appear town, when I have seen you behave exactly the same as scum. In fact, I have seen you behave that way only as scum.anythingyou're selling. Your questions feel weighted, forced, and a day late and a dollar short.I could link to two of your recent posts where you, as scum, either acted exactly the same as you claimed to act as town, or acted the way you claimed you would not act as scum. You were at the very least misleading in your use of self-meta, if not outright lying.
Emphasis by me. Furcolow started Mafia Holographica by shooting at me, which he explained as a reaction test here. I've not seen him do reaction tests as town, though admittedly I only have one ongoing game for reference, and I should look up more games with town Furcolow to see if there is any truth to his claim. At the very least, him claiming that he likes them as town is at least misleading.Furcolow #172 wrote:I like early-game reaction-testsas town, PoisonIvy.
Again, emphasis by me. In Mafia Holographica the scum had daytalk, which would've made coaching possible, but Furcolow did not wait and shot at me immediately on the first day here. In this case Furcolow was just lying, since he acted the opposite to what he said he would as scum.Furcolow #85 wrote:Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figuredI would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.
I didn't do that.
Have to agree. Time to make up my mind.LlamaFluff #602 wrote:@Everyone- If you are not voting for one of Thad, Amrun (PI) or moth (jmj) in your next post, explain in depth why all three are beyond a doubt town. This is the point in the game where stuff needs to happen, we have three big wagons and absolutely zero reason for people not to be on one them.
I'm not happy with this. When jmj3000 replaced out, it should've been obvious that he was genuinely flaking instead of stalling for time, and since that was pretty much all DavidParker found him scummy for, I don't like him continuing to push a case that just went down the drain. All that is left to suspect jmj3000 for is that he made a random vote despite having suspects. I find that slightly suspect, but really not lynch worthy.DavidParker #569 wrote:Can we just lynch this slot before a replacement comes in and everyone forgets how scummy JMJ was?? A replacement at this point will be a fresh start more or less and I'm not happy with that.jmj3000 wrote:Ok, I have gotten too far behind in this game. I have been trying to catch up, but each time I get 1 step forward, I fall two steps back.
Mod: Please replace me, as me being so far behind is going to hurt the fun of everyone else in the game.
Furcolow, youFurcolow #209 in Rivertown Mafia wrote:ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over it
It is recognition of the fact that you're not getting lynched today, and so I should look for scum elsewhere, fool. I'm not of any use to the town if I tunnel on you.Furcolow #570 wrote:This just is ADMISSION you're trying to get mislynches, and that you are going to bandwagon.
I am ever-so-more suspicious of you, Feysal, but I'm happy with where my vote is right now. I could easily get on the biggest bandwagon of ThAdmiral. I don't believe I'm going to do that.
Or I could just be confident in my townread on her. And I won't be scared out of voting ThAdmiral by you. I think that he is the most likely wagon to be scum, and in fact your partner. There have been so many times ThAdmiral has made excuses for you this game.Furcolow #573 wrote:Feysal in his #560 defends Amrun/PI's play, expect to see a hop onto the ThAdmiral wagon from him. Very possible that he is buddying as scum here.
I know, I think I found all the games you've played together, though I did not look too deeply at them all. I actually thought Frenzy Mafia was ongoing, there was nothing on the first page to indicate the game was over. I checked it now, and discovered that Furcolow was the last person voting you until you used your one-shot ability to have yourself mod confirmed as town to him. That really does not inspire confidence in his ability to read your meta, and I would not put my faith into Furcolow's reads over my own anyway, no matter what I thought his alignment was. Besides, I don't think meta reads are ever really reliable. I tried to get a meta read on you anyway, against my better judgment, and it was really not very helpful.ThAdmiral #616 wrote:@ Feysal - a few things you should know:
1. Lies of locke lamora was mine and Furc's first game together so it really shouldn't be a surprise he didn't know my meta then (I think it was also the first game I played since I came back after a break as well). Since then we've played together in at least 2 or 3 other games. As you mentioned he picked me correctly as scum in rivertown recently, and picked me correctly as town (albeit not at first) in frenzy mafia. I linked to it earlier in this game so you can check it out if you want.
I actually knew this, I read that game a bit further and found the explanation. My point was not that he would purposely play like a village idiot, it was that he had admitted to being one. I guess I should've posted the quote where he was explicit about it, this one:ThAdmiral #616 wrote:2. The comment about Furcolow and his "VI account" is an understandable misrepresentation, as it caused similar confusion in the game it first appeared in. He was referring to his account in which he was hydra-ing with and learning from the (well-known and excellent) mafia player Vi. It does NOT refer to an account were he plays as a Village Idiot.
Since Furcolow seems to agree that he is a village idiot, I don't like him accusing people of ad hominem for calling him that.Furcolow #350 in Rivertown Mafia wrote:I'm not "on a VI account for the sake of being on a VI account"
i was referring to this being my main account, andme being a VI
I am also Hydra-ing with Vi, who is a good player, who is teaching me on an alt-hydra-account
therefore, this, my normal account, is my "vi account" even if it is not an "alt account for a vi"
Bad though it may look, I'll have to get back to you on this. I'd have to do another ISO read of you and write a longer post, and I don't have the time right now. Later tonight, hopefully.ThAdmiral #616 wrote:Other than the flip flopping between furc and I is there anything else you actually find scummy? Or are you just another one of those people who are agreeing with Nacho for no reason?
What is this Verona Mafia you speak of? I could only find a game from years ago on another forum by that name, and I saw no Amrun there. She is a very new player on this site, and I could only find a single newbie game she had completed, and two that are ongoing, so what are you talking about?Furcolow #625 wrote:ok, as scum, the first thing i noticed he does (in verona mafia) is ask really lilting toned questions, as seen here:
Okay, time to do this.Feysal #627 wrote:Bad though it may look, I'll have to get back to you on this. I'd have to do another ISO read of you and write a longer post, and I don't have the time right now. Later tonight, hopefully.ThAdmiral #616 wrote:Other than the flip flopping between furc and I is there anything else you actually find scummy? Or are you just another one of those people who are agreeing with Nacho for no reason?
ThAdmiral #70 wrote:Furcolow is improving. So I think this is a bit unfair.
ThAdmiral #92 wrote:I think he's doing alright tbh.
I've seen him play a lot worse than this, and that is why he is a policy lynch to a lot of people.
After this comes the flip with Furcolow. Sathoris pointed out the scum could talk for 24 hours before the game started, and in response ThAdmiral voted Furcolow, since this made him look bad. I'm fine with this, but what happens between #113 and #140 looks odd to me. During the 14 hours between those posts Furcolow threw a fit of panic and voted PoisonIvy for survival. This got him a town read from ThAdmiral, and he has stuck to that ever since. Moving on...ThAdmiral #105 wrote:1. Yep.Beasts of the Sea wrote:Other things:
1. My spidey sense says Furcolow is town.
2. GhostWriter's reference to his wiki in post #27 is a lie. He says he's undefeated as scum, but he's clearly not.
3. smargaret is giving me town pings but that's pretty slim right now. Also, JMJ's comment "no hard feelings" earlier struck me as suspicious as well.
2. Good pick up.
3. I'm actually getting scum tingles from smargaret.
smargaret criticized Furcolow in #78, ThAdmiral disapproved with part of it in #92, RedCoyote disapproved of that in #117, and ThAdmiral responded with the above quote. I thought smargaret was criticizing Furcolow for his reaction test, but I can see the side ThAdmiral is taking here too. I don't think it was that big a deal though, and smargaret certainly was not laughing about it. And still in the same post, ThAdmiral said this:ThAdmiral #140 wrote:Oh noes, disapproval!
She was laughingly trying to make it seem like Furc was saying that the pro-town thing was to vote him, whereas he was making a point about certainty and uncertainty. It was a massive reach.
What ThAdmiral called a good pick up in #105 really was not that good, it should've been obvious GhostWriter had made up his responses. Making a joke of it does not change that it was bad, and trying to laugh it off after calling smargaret out for "laughingly" criticizing Furcolow does not help any. Again in #156 ThAdmiral made light of Nachomamma8 calling him scum.ThAdmiral #140 wrote:Is a good pick up: "Hey, haven't I seen you before? I remember, it was in my dreams!"?
Nothing up to now has been that scummy, except for the absence of scumhunting and for not helping the game along, but this post I have a more serious problem with. Earlier ThAdmiral called Furcolow's vote for survival pro-town behavior "if you are town". Furcolow did not even try to justify his vote with anything else, and he got a town read. However, PoisonIvy does not get equal treatment. She could be town too, she could want to survive too, but for her to even hint at another potential wagon is a scumtell. This reeks of a double standard. Furcolow gets town points for wanting to live, PoisonIvy gets scum points for even hinting at it. If I had to name a single post that suggests Furcolow and ThAdmiral being in the same scum team, this is it.ThAdmiral #169 wrote:But I'm just saying him voting the other leading wagon is not necessarily anti-town if he is indeed town. Especially since often when there is competing wagons one is town and one is scum.gonnano #167 wrote:Actually, I believe the pro-town move in this situation would be for Furcolow to try to find scum, not to just push any wagon that isn't his. Especially since we've still got weeks until the deadline.ThAdmiral #156 wrote:It is if you are town.
Yeah this is classic "keep counterwagon options open" scum-talk. (not what you said, what PoisonIvy said)LynchMePls #166 wrote:Maybe because of recent statements from other players expressing negative opinions of you, you figure he's an easy counterwagon to yours? Seriously people, look at this quote. This is just AWFUL.PoisonIvy #165 wrote:ThAdmiral however has been giving me bad vibes throughout. Don't actually know why
Perhaps it is the frequency with which you've made excuses for his play, starting from your first post. Also, I think meta is a very weak reason to defend another player, particularly someone as unstable as Furcolow. I also think that he is acting according to his scum meta, just like you described it:ThAdmiral #650 wrote:Anyway - I think me and Furc are on the same team. The town team. I already explained why I think Furc is town based on meta and our previous games together. I don't see what is so hard to understand/scummy about that.
I don't agree on the activity part, Furcolow is active regardless of alignment. In Ohne Mafia, as scum, he had more posts over a shorter period of time than here. I can't say I've seen him give many town reads, but he has thrown scum accusations left and right, especially at people who were on his wagon or who suspect him. He has also given weak or no explanations for his suspects, and his latest accusation of Stephoscope is a prime example of a weak case on a soft target, his accusation being almost pure OMGUS because Stephoscope agreed with my case on him.ThAdmiral #361 wrote:As town he seems to be more active, seems to more actively participate in scum hunting and questioning, has larger posts and generally seems to be more involved in the game. He also is more likely to claim that someone is town in his eyes.
As scum his posts are shorter, he seems to throw out a lot more one liners that don't really push things forward but rather comment mildly on what is going on, he generally goes after softer targets, like inactives, or pursues weak cases that he doesn't bother explaining all that well. He also is more likely to claim someone is scum in his eyes.
If you think she was, then what about Furcolow and his threat to self-vote? It is from things like this that I began to suspect that double standard.ThAdmiral #650 wrote:She soooo was being a drama queen. And I soooo have been sharing my opinions on tonnes of stuff this game.
You know what? I agree the case on you is weak. In my post I tried to explain what I found scummy about you, but apart from the double standard thing, there was nothing major, just many little things I interpreted as scummy with nothing on the other side of the scale. If it were not for the stuff about Furcolow, I would have much less reason to suspect you. Of course I would prefer Furcolow to die first, but since the town seems unwilling, you are my second best choice. I believe Amrun is town, mothrax is mostly null, and to me you look scummier than either of them.ThAdmiral #650 wrote:This is bang on the money. I felt there was something weak/wrong/bad about the cases on me for a while now but couldn't quite put my finger on it, but this is it.
No, it is not. RedCoyote did say the game needed a claim. Stephoscope was replying to that post when he agreed on that. His response to LMP is fine. He has posted too little for me to have a read on him, but a case this feeble does not influence my read of him, except maybe positively if Furcolow flips scum.Furcolow #649 wrote:I don't really like this post from Stephoscope. It is very defensive.Stephoscope wrote:Please note that I was responding to RedCoyote's post 585 in particular, and in that post he discusses the need for a claim.LynchMePls wrote:That's fascinating, because we were talking about a lynch, not a claim.Stephoscope wrote:I agree the game sorely needs a claim.
Why do you keep assuming only scum would have reason to suspect you? This post makes your vote look like an OMGUS. And where the hell did you get Godfather from? Are you just making this stuff up?Furcolow #649 wrote:I know talking to me can be like talking to a wall, when it comes to middle ground, but are you positive you won't rectify your position and situation with me? I am pretty sure that the only reason you would be setting me up like I've seen from you this game is that you would want to mislynch me easily as scum after lurking through Day 1 as the Godfather with little or no suspicions put onto you whatsoever.
What are you doing? This looks like you are just feeling out whether it is safe to false claim Veteran, or possibly role fishing again. Seriously, was there a point to any of what you said here?Furcolow #649 wrote:I am also for claiming. Like say I was a Bulletproof, what would that do to the setup? I have also heard of this role being called a Veteran. If I was a Veteran, and had two night lives, it might be wise to claim and setup a circle if there were direct ways of directing via whispering/personal messages. I do not see us having that ability here, so it might not be safe to put all of our pieces out on the table yet.
I was considering claiming Veteran publicly, but I am going to just sit back for now.
And I thought your cases could not get any worse after that Stephoscope vote. I stand corrected. This is the single stupidest reason to vote someone I have ever seen in my mafia career. Anyone else wondering, it should be clear that Furcolow indeed meant Artem and not Amrun. The pronoun "he", the description of him being "too town", the defense of ThAdmiral, the meta... all of that is Artem.Furcolow #677 wrote:Vote: Artem
He's too town to be town
YouFurcolow #679 wrote:I'm actually bulletproof, but if you mean town as in on the side of the townies, then yeah, I guess I am.
Let me get this straight: you're under the impression that claiming bulletproof would somehow confirm you as town, so you would be allowed to lead the town and pick lynch targets for us? Targets like Artem? Dream on.Furcolow #685 wrote:Well, it helps have someone for the town to help out through providing lynch targets.
Also, if the scum want to waste 2 nights killing Furcolow, that is very good for the town.
Actually, claiming bulletproof is one of the stupidest things you can do in this game. It does not automatically confirm you and enable you to lead the town. Also, claiming is not necessary for the role to work. If you did not claim, the scum might try to kill you and fail, and that would enable someone else to survive that night. If you do claim, scum will not even try to kill you, and they will successfully kill someone else. In short, if you claim bulletproof, the ability is wasted.Furcolow #688 wrote:I have seen that it is a smart claim day 1, as when it is incorporated it is generally good to lead the town, as scum won't be able to silence you after only one night. That's just personal preference.
I'd rather you go ahead and tell me now why it was a bad idea. The thing is, though, I can't be sure you're not scum! You could be purposefully misleading me on my quest of scumhunting.
If it was not obvious yet from the comments in the thread, there are several non-US townies in this game. That is why Fuzzyman's statement could be true, and him having another nationality is not suspicious. The non-US townies also know perfectly well that the setup is not US versus Soviets, because their own roles don't fit into that theory.Amrun #714 wrote:My win-con is "you win when all the threats to the peace are dead" or something along those lines. This is what makes me doubt Soviet vs. US despite my role. I think most likely is town (US), Soviet (mafia), other nationalities (third party), since Fuzzyman's slot claimed another nationality. Still, this is not for sure. Why hasn't Fuzzyman's slot received more pressure for this scummy statement? I just don't get it. I tried to put more pressure on and somehow got portrayed as scum for doing so.
Neither do I, but I've got to try. I don't stand by and let my townreads be lynched, not when they are this strong.Amrun #757 wrote:@Feysal: I do appreciate the support, but I don't know what good it will do at this point.
I did not say he was, I was only making a point about flavor being unreliable until we see a few flips.Nachomamma8 #786 wrote:JOHN F KENNEDY IS NO SCUM YOU BASTARD
I've heard comments like this every time I've defended someone. In Mafia Holographica it resulted in a townie tunneling on me for the entire game, and we lost.Scott Brosius #791 wrote:This really reads as scum knowing that Amrun is scum and trying to get town points for it. "That was a close one...." really rubs me the wrong way.
I was already confident in Amrun being town before her reaction to being "hammered", that was why I was defending her in the first place. Think whatever you like, I was getting a strong newbie town read.Scott Brosius #797 wrote:You rarely see scum admit to being scum, even in twilight. Feysal's post reads as more certainty than a town member should have in my opinion.
I keep pushing you because I believe you are scum. If I can't get you lynched, I'd prefer to have you silenced more than anyone else, since your voting record is worse than anyone else's. Your vote on Artem was beyond bad. I would not be sorry at all if you were prevented from making more of such votes.Furcolow #801 wrote:I dislike Feysal's silly wrathful pushing, and his wanting me silenced. I have freedom of speech. If my vote is taken away, it will only make me louder.
This is the second time I've seen you refer to that book. Why?Furcolow #805 wrote:There is no way we can be burning Fahrenheit 451, Guy Montag.
Why is this necessary to do now? We can test that claim any time on some useless lurker.ThAdmiral #823 wrote:We really should test the governor claim by getting 12 votes on Amrun before anything else.
Town can be defined as the uninformed majority, key word being uninformed. Why would being wrong about the setup be a scumtell?XScorpion #827 wrote:No. Wrong answer. This is not the setup. Die scum die.
Obvious to you perhaps, not to her. If she was US and town, how should she know what other nationalities the town consists of? How should she know what nationalities the threats to the peace consist of? She had less information to work with than the non-US townies, and her theory was plausible given what she knew. On the other hand, if you were someone like Charles de Gaulle or Josip Broz Tito, you would of course know that the setup was not US versus Soviets, and you would not be jumping to a conclusion that the game was French versus Yugoslavians either.XScorpion #833 wrote:Because it's pretty obvious to me that country does not have any impact on what faction you are.
And if I'm wrong and it does, then obviously he should die.
Okay, now I'm really disappointed. Are you aware that Furry is an alt of LlamaFluff? Aka the player who, in The Return to Liten, faked a double vote on me to prompt a claim from me? You were there, you saw it happen.ThAdmiral #864 wrote:So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.
For everyone who didn't notice:Amrum has not been governered, and llama is to be killed asap. Put votes back on amrum.
I do know, I've read it. What I don't know is why it would be relevant to this game. The Cold War was not the theme of the book. It was about a dystopian future, where the United States have degenerated into a nation of apathetic idiots due to a ban of books and reading.Furcolow #894 wrote:@Feysal, question from 34:
Fahrenheit 451 is the temperature at which Soviet literature would have been burning at in America, or vice versa. It is the heat at which books burn, as far as I know, and a good book which I'm sure you know.
That is funny, because I don't. This reaction is completely different to what I've seen from ThAd before.Furcolow #894 wrote:I like this post from ThAd. I mean, I REALLY like this post. I was starting to be less sure of him, but this pressure on LlamaFluff is good, considering he was the only person I saw EGL buddying up with that could be his scum partner. Amrun/EGL/LlamaFluff wouldn't surprise me.
Amrun #1000 wrote:Fuzzyman claimed a third nationality. Care to elaborate with flavor? (Keep the role to yourself, though, obviously.)
Bunnylover #1013 wrote:Would it be better if I name claimed/nationality claimed now?
Amrun #1014 wrote:That's what I asked you to do earlier.
Considering that he was asked for his name and nationality a while back and the votes are piling up, I think it is time to claim those things. I don't think claiming the actual role is necessary yet.Bunnylover #1017 wrote:Frankly I am confused as to why my person is even in the game. I have no idea what his involvement is in the Cold War or leading up to the Cold War.
I think name claiming would just be best =/.
Like smargaret said, it should be easy to deduce that the town must consist of several nationalities if you are neither from the US or the USSR. If you're someone like Dag Hammarskiöld, you don't assume that the town consists of only Swedes.Artem #1057 wrote:It's one thing for a PM to say "You're [insert non-US/Soviet nationality here] and you're town", it's another for it to also state "...and there are other town-aligned players of varying nationalities". Besides, in that same quote, JVW mentions "the rules regarding nationality and alignment are in the first post", so...
Probable town, though I should take a closer look. My read of him has fluctuated a lot, but after his reaction to Amrun's claim, I'm back at believing he is town, and one scummy comment is not enough to convince me otherwise. If you want a more in depth answer that will also have to wait.LynchMePls #1044 wrote:@Llama, RedCoyote, Feysal, ThAdmiral, Amrun, InflatablePie, EGL, Scott Brosius: Give me your reads on DP pls.
I did not miss it. I saw it in preview, but did not change what I'd already written.Bunnylover #1075 wrote:@Feysal: You might have missed it, but I did claim in my previous post.Ernesto Guevara, Cuban Roleblocker.
Well, so much for that. Once this is confirmed by a mod post, that will mean that flavor does not guarantee anyone to be either town or scum.Bunnylover #1168 wrote:Yeah, I was town.
Just when I was starting to entertain the thought that you might just be playing badly, you go and do something like this.Furcolow #1171 wrote:EGL IS SO INCREDIBLY SCUMMY
WHEN I GET NIGHTKILLED, PLEASE KILL HIM - WITH A ROPE
I agree on this. I would guess that being poisoned is the Soviet kill flavor and being assassinated the US, since real life Soviet assassins are known to have preferred poison. I know RedCoyote did not say much about GhostWriter/hohum yesterday, but that slot would make most sense as a vigilante target, and the other two as scum targets.bvoigt #1192 wrote:So, it's probably one American and one Soviet scumteam?
What my point was about was that instead of reading Wikipedia, Furcolow asked about his role in thread. I actually found that very scummy on first reading, since I thought Furcolow had claimed not to like his character - if he did not know much about him, how could he dislike him? Then I checked back and noticed Furcolow had claimed not to like his nationality. I suppose he means the Soviets, don't know what he'd have against Azeris.ThAdmiral #1236 wrote:This is a good point. But it also applies retrospectively to Amrun and the mix up with general MacArthur. There's no way that mistake would have been made if she had checked the wiki page.
It is weird but people can just be lazy sometimes and not check wiki pages, I guess?
Furcolow #811 wrote:Heydar Aliyev, Soviet Bulletproof
Furcolow #812 wrote:I don't really know a lot about my character, can someone inform me?
We've established that flavor arguments are pretty much null tells in this game, but misrepresenting your character like this caught my eye. In fact Heydar Aliyev was the chairman of the Azerbaijani KGB and the leader of Soviet Azerbaijan. He was a hardliner, who was pushed out of power by Gorbachev during the perestroika. He was also involved with the Azeri mafia and gross corruption, while keeping a facade of fighting corruption.Furcolow #1242 wrote:I'm soviet, basically, from Azerbaijan or whatever. My guy was friends with the Democracy in Russia, so he is on the good side, if one so exists. It is all based upon perspective. I like capitalism more, so I don't mind. I don't really feel nervous about a wagon on me, or claiming anything. Lynch me if you all will, I don't really care.
Based on this and other mentions in the article, Aliyev could be described as the godfather of the Azeri mafia.Wikipedia wrote:Despite the persecutions of all his relatives in Azerbaijan, Gamboi Mamedov investigated Aliyev's corruption and ties with the mafia. This led to the mass suicide of a number of Azeri mafia members, as well as 'mysterious' deaths of a number of Aliyev's lieutenants.
From reading the rules, and the first couple pages of the thread. The rules say that players have a separate alignment and nationality. This implies that the town consists of several nationalities, and several players obviously agree. But then, what is the purpose of nationality in the game mechanics? My theory is that there are two mafia factions, whose win condition is to eliminate the opposing nationalities, whether town or scum, and they don't need to kill the townies who share the same nationality. The rules say that there is a possible mafia win condition that only Soviet players remain, and I believe there is another that says only non-Soviet players remain. Considering that there are Soviet townies, the sample mafia win condition would not require the Soviet mafia to kill them.gonnano #1237 wrote:@Feysal: while we're giving out possible scumtells, why didyouthink there were two scum teams?
I saw LMP answer this already, but since I've played with Sathoris more, I'll add my own opinion. In the games I've played with Sathoris he has usually been quite aggressive, and the last time I noted him being cautious he was a cult leader. Those games were much faster than this one so it makes sense that his play would be somewhat different, but I do see cause for suspicion.bvoigt #1288 wrote:@LMP: It looks to me like Sathoris is trying to skate by, and posting very little good content. You've played with him before, right? What do you think?
Off the top of my head Lowell is the one I agree on the most, with bvoigt and smargaret I'm leaning town.ThAdmiral #1297 wrote:IN CONCLUSION:
- I think there is a VERY high possibility of at least one scum in thebvoigt,smargandlowellgroup.
-DavidParker's reasoning for his vote was inconsistent with what he had said previously, and therefore he could be scum.
I'm going to look at bvoigt, smarg and lowell and will probably place my vote on one of them.
I have seen a town silencer before, in fact far more drastic than the role Amrun claimed. What I saw was a silencer who could not only prevent a player from voting, but from posting altogether. With 48 hour days, this was not quite as bad as it sounds though. That was an off-site game, but anyway I'd be careful about trying to outguess the mod about what roles he would give the town.Beasts of the Sea #1316 wrote:Regardless of Amrun being RBed or not, the role ability is inherently not a town ability. She is still scum.
Given that the town win condition is mentioned in the rules, Furcolow is just making himself look foolish.InflatablePie #1335 wrote:"or whatever"
god he doesn't even know the town wincon omg he's scum
No. I cannot imagine why you would fake claim in the first place. There was no wagon on you, and the only serious pressure was from me. You were in no imminent danger of being night killed either.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2845876#p2845876]#1364[/url] wrote:CAN YOU IMAGINE WHY I WOULD FAKECLAIM THAT?
THEN SHIFT TO TOWNIE?
I AM A DOCTOR.
Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2788745#p2788745]#649[/url] wrote:With no protective role, though, I would possibly agree with you. WE JUST CAN'T KNOW THAT.
Organization is what is the key to the town, and getting information out. Little snarky comments about ideas that are actually very openminded and assertive in that the town as a collective can come together to overcome the threat of scum is just the exact thing that I don't want to see.
On the first day you claimed to support mass claiming, if only you could be sure there was a protective role. If your claim is true, you were the doctor the whole time. What was the purpose of all this speculation and talk about organizing the town then?Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2793175#p2793175]#699[/url] wrote:Actually, if I knew we had a protective role, yes.ThAdmiral [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2793155#p2793155]#698[/url] wrote:I know I said I didn't want to discuss this, but I do have to clear one thing up.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2793079#p2793079]#694[/url] wrote:Claiming helps determine the setup, ThAdmiral.
The above quote seems to imply that at any given point you would promote a mass claim. Is that the case?
However, the key to that would be not outting the protective role, or guaranteeing X number of innocents at a certain point.
In an open setup, where it is advantageous to do so, yes. I actually like having my cards on the table, knowing what they are, and how to use them. I feel it is a very underused strategy for the town, when the scum are much more proportionately weaker and would be forced to counterclaim.
To be fair, Che Guevara does not really match with role blocker either, or John Glenn (astronaut and senator) with vigilante.smargaret [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2845930#p2845930]#1370[/url] wrote:Yet another reason to not believe Furc - Amrun's claimed a name and role that fit (and while I doubt the silencer is town, I don't doubt that she is a silencer). My name and role fit. Heydar Aliyev does not fit with doc.
In your dreams. You've not made a single case that would've made sense, you just call people scum for reasons that are dubious even by your standards. Or you call people scum with no reasoning at all.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2879461#p2879461]#1655[/url] wrote:I've been the only person in this god damn town trying to scumhunt.
If you want to know where I was for the end of the last day, I was struggling not to flake from all of my games. This is now the last one I'm alive in, so you can expect to see more of me. I'll need to do some major rereading though to get my head back into the game.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2879461#p2879461]#1655[/url] wrote:Where the fuck is his lurking scummy ass.
Furcolow said this about Artem when he replaced out, and though there was no chance in hell Artem would actually be quicklynched before a replacement arrived, I still don't see Furcolow saying this about fellow scum.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2860432#p2860432]#1490[/url] wrote:I am willing to lynch this slot before there is a replacement, because due to meta, he appears protown as scum and vice versa.
I believe that means there was no Soviet scum kill and no vigilante kill. Being shot is almost certainly not the Soviet kill flavor since that is how VP Baltar died, so it stands to reason that being poisoned is the Soviet kill flavor.Stephoscope [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2931545#p2931545]#1818[/url] wrote:It is worth noting that there was no "poisoning" nor "removed from bunker" last night. Is there anything we can deduce from that?
Why not? The odd-night vigilante being dead is public knowledge, and I don't see anything about the lack of a Soviet kill that would be anti-town to say, as long as we remember there are several possibilities to explain that and don't jump into conclusions.bvoigt [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2931897#p2931897]#1823[/url] wrote:Yeah, although I'm not sure it's really pro-town to say it.
Why so pessimistic? 8-4-2 could be possible, but I think 10-3-1 is at least equally possible.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2931914#p2931914]#1825[/url] wrote:It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2.
I could not remember very well what EGL had been doing and saying, so I reread his posts. He never voted gonnano, but I don't think that is reason enough to suspect a connection between them, particularly since gonnano chose to vote EGL in #956, as second on his wagon. Other than that, gonnano only mentions suspicion of EGL in one other post #1662, in a large pool of suspects. That is all. I don't see support for the distancing accusation.smargaret [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2934943#p2934943]#1846[/url] wrote:Feysal - can you elaborate on why the EGL case is suddenly invalid?
Just before this post you said you were assuming that there were four scum in each team. I don't share that idea. I have no solid evidence of there being only three members to a team, but I believe game balance works better that way. We started with 24 players, and six scum total sounds about right for the size of the game, particularly given the abundance of killing roles. There is also the sample win condition of only Soviets remaining, which has an important impact on game balance in late game. The town could find itself in LYLO if the last scum and all townies except one share the same nationality.Furcolow [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2938271#p2938271]#1860[/url] wrote:Therefore, he has pegged 1 of the 2 scum on that team, but would only have a reason to do that as the other team, which we as a town need to reduce in number.
Missed the fact that I was in Rome all of last week, and away from the game on account of that?LynchMePls [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2939801#p2939801]#1868[/url] wrote:I've decided that your play is scummy, and I want a replacement on Feysal since he's given up on the game.
He may be a valid lynch, but I think that the case connecting him to the Soviet scum team is invalid. He may still belong to the other scum team.smargaret [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2946267#p2946267]#1899[/url] wrote:No, Feysal, you need to talk about EGL and why you all of a sudden don't think he's a valid lynch.
The key here is that I implied Bunnylover would be either Cuban or Soviet, not both. At the time, from my own role, I thought that Soviet townies would not have a nationality other than Soviet. My role has no mention of me being East German anywhere. It was not until VP Baltar flipped Vietnamese Soviet that I learned otherwise.Feysal [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2805002#p2805002]#1096[/url] wrote:Basically, the Che Guevara from the Cuban Missile Crisis would be one of the worst threats to peace imaginable, but in light of his later rift with the Soviets, I have trouble seeing him allied with anyone. The fact that Bunnylover gave his nationality as Cuban instead of Soviet also suggests this. The role sounds like it could be third party more than anything else.
It was like Sathoris said, I had no reason to. In fact, smargaret had anticipated the previous night that she would be wagoned, and said I should not claim if it happened. I would've claimed anyway if it became necessary to defend her, and said as much in our QuickTopic, but since her claim was enough to end the wagon on her, I stayed silent.bvoigt [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2949306#p2949306]#1914[/url] wrote:Feysal, why didn't you claim that you were smarg's neighbor?
And that would make me scum because...? I obviously don't think that there would have to be scum in our neighborhood at all.Stephoscope [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2952090#p2952090]#1922[/url] wrote:smargaret is town. No question.