New Designer Mafia (Victor(s) are crowned)

[populartajo]

im here rereading and such

[populartajo]

ok, i thought this would take me more time but fortunately we have a one-sentece-by-post playerlist.

general thoughts:

Xalxe is OBVTOWN and the townies in his wagon should get out asap, (proposing the claiming strategy; reacting the way he did to the stupid wagon that was forming against him, which at the same time means one of

Internet Stranger, zoraster, DemonHybrid, StrangerCoug, DeathNote

is scum; active and sincere posting) definitely i dont see a scum agenda in his posting.

Other people I like

(subjective towntells as good reasoning and active posting) are:
1. StrangerCoug, 5. Sevei, 6. ender241, 9. Zajnet, 14. danakillsu, 20. Xalxe, 21. DeathNote

Olinea is very very likely SCUM and not because the detonator stupid stuff which is PRETTY OBVIOUS she is not, its becuase she is full of scumtells. Im not liking his justification for random voting in post 5, his sheeping to the claiming strategy in post 7, and more importantly she is freaking scared of Demon Hybrid, like too worried of being caught. Assuming Olineatown, I dont know where she got the conclusion that DH was tunneling townie instead of considering him as a scumbag trying to get advantage of her, which is the normal townie reasoning. This strongly suggest Olineascum.

Zoraster is also scummy, Im not liking his attack on Xalxe for helping on claiming logistics, specially when he is also pro-claiming. I just dont get it. Question for him, are you always that agressive with something you support?

I dont like Furcolow either, he sucumbed to the "lets prove Olinea's role" pressure when some people started attacking him, the omgus reasoning doesnt help him also.

I agree with Zajnet regarding WhenInRome. Apologizing in his second post of the game is a relative strng scumtell, mixed with zero towntells and meh posting, we have another candidate for scum here.

@Plum, do you usually vote with no reasoning? I dont remember something like this from you.

people I still dont have a read on:

4. Internet Stranger, 10. Nocmen, 11. Tasky, 22. DemonHybrid

people lurking

3. ribwich, 7. fishythefish, 12. brokenscraps, 18. Thingyman.

MOD, PLEASE PROD THESE PEOPLE.

Vote: Olinea.

[populartajo]

also I was the one sending the Yosarianite role so its pretty obvious to me Olinea is not the detonator. She is scum, though.

[populartajo]

what would have been the townie acting regarding massclaim logistics?

[populartajo]

Regarding massclaiming, the people saying it creates confussion seriously dont know what they are talking about. I much prefer a discussion of massclaiming with people taking stances that can be evaluated in the long run rather than a stupid herp derp RVS. The proof ironically is in this game.

[populartajo]

Nobody likes to be pressured, especially as town because you’re unsure if the person in question is a misguided townie who should be directing their attention towards scum or scum trying to get a mislynch in.

why were you treating DemonHybrid as tunneling town then?

ill watch the video tonight, from work i cant. :S

[populartajo]

actually what nocmen says makes a lot of sense.

REASONING: Its very likely Olinea is not the bomb detonator. I made the Yosarianite role, and his ability can be proven (by the way the way he defended himself from the accusation of being the detonator STRONGLY leans to him not being the detonator. The only possibility is that Olinea is the bomb detonator is IF somehow we have a scum role that messes up with voting which is why once again claiming our sent roles is useful and NOT confusing at all.

Lets do this and everyone sould answer this: DID YOU SENT A ROLE THAT COULD MESS WITH VOTING? I DIDNT. Xalxe, could you help me here with your previous compilation?

If there is not a role that could mess with voting, then Olinea is confirmed NOT BOMB DETONATOR and the explosion is pretty much a frame attempt which would make Olinea less likely to be scum.

[populartajo]

Unvote

until we resolve this stuff.

[populartajo]

IS, did you send a role that could mess with voting?

[populartajo]

what would have been the townie acting regarding massclaim logistics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGiXjijqEJE

Highlights:
Town action = claim, post why it's a good idea, move on.
Olinea = Not much to be said, but his actions aren't town
Xalxe = Reiterating he's either protecting or distancing from a mislynch.

first, i admit this video stuff is pretty cool, might try it sometime in the game

regarding Xalxe, it actually feels like Xalxe was sincerely helping but I also can also see your point after a quick iso. I must add that his reactions to the wagon forming look townie to me, his convo with zajnet also looks scumhunting townie to me, do you think otherwsie?

now, i think you are actually kinda smart to buy the olinea is the bomb detonator stuff, do you agree with my reasoning of him not being the detonator?

quick question, it was a one-take video?

[populartajo]

I'm 100% sure that a frame job is happening. I still think Olinea is giving us a snowjob and trying to setup Furco via way of a secret scum screwing with votes.

On that same token, if he isn't the detonator, who is? Dana? I think he is only other one alive that has said detonate.

zora has also said detonate.

I did not submit a role that can effect voting in any way. However, if scum submitted a vote that scum now have, they could just lie.

i dont get this, could you rephrase?

[populartajo]

hey zoraster answer my questions

[populartajo]

there is definitely one scum in the Olinea wagon, very likely supporting the "omg he is the detonator herp derp" theory.

Vote: InternetStranger.

A vig should kill Furcolow.

[populartajo]

ok, ender is town.

Unvote Vote: Furcolow

[populartajo]

@WhenInRome:

WIR: I'm pretty sure you're not thinking through why Tajo was asking if anyone submitted a vote-manipulating role - he's trying to confirm that Olinea got the Yosarianite role and to do so we need to rule out any other possible causes for votes in Olinea's context to be going awry (in which case we cannot confirm her as Yosarianite and thus not Detonator). Did you see my videos/if not, shall I summarize what I said to and about you therein/can you respond please???

I couldnt have said it better.

Mod, please prod ribquick, sevei, brokenscraps, Thingyman, DemonHybrid. Some people have not even posted since start of the game

[populartajo]

why dont you like IS obsession if its similiar to the one you had it days ago?

[populartajo]

Coug, why did you avoid reading this?

@WhenInRome:

WIR: I'm pretty sure you're not thinking through why Tajo was asking if anyone submitted a vote-manipulating role - he's trying to confirm that Olinea got the Yosarianite role and to do so we need to rule out any other possible causes for votes in Olinea's context to be going awry (in which case we cannot confirm her as Yosarianite and thus not Detonator). Did you see my videos/if not, shall I summarize what I said to and about you therein/can you respond please???

I couldnt have said it better.

Mod, please prod ribquick, sevei, brokenscraps, Thingyman, DemonHybrid. Some people have not even posted since start of the game

[populartajo]

Furcolow, so you think the possibility of someone else detonating a bomb by PM or with other trigger to frame Olinea is 0%?

Why would scum loverize two vanilla idiots like chesskid and Cooldog and not save this ability for a better use?

Regarding the case on me, Its pretty obvious I was talking about other role besides the Yosarianite, which is the role I WAS TRYING TO PROVE.

Do you think or are you a scumbag jumping with stupid reasoning?

[populartajo]

thats not wifom, thats common sense

[populartajo]

I was going to make a case against obvscum Furcolow but then I read this and decided I couldnt have said better:

People who I have problems with:

Furc

Dislike his unwillingness to confirm Oli; rather like he wants continued pressure on Oli, when the protown thing to do is clearly verify the claim. Then, when a couple of people vote for him, he votes Oli. Feels like Furc always

knew

that was the protown thing to do, and once he was called on his inaction he wanted to appease the town. His explanation for this later is that confirming Oli’s claim was setting up for his wagon to be disbanded, which was counter to Furc’s goal, lynching the scummiest player. In other words, an outright admission that he cares about lynching Oli, not working out what is going on. This rather makes my point:

I am really confused as to what is going on with the Olinea/detonator/populartajo situation, but it is making me suspicious of them.

I don’t think that’s a natural townie reaction to the problem of being really confused about something. It seems that Furc can’t quite work out how to get from the facts to Oli/tajo scummy, but wants to give a scumread anyway. Furc seems content to throw out things that sound like they make Oli scum, while never presenting a coherent view of why he thinks that. He also sheeps the bad WIR vote on tajo. Overall, Furc’s play shows a massive lack of interest in working out who’s scum.

Confirm Vote: Furcolow.

[populartajo]

I don't know about Furc. (1)
On the one hand, he's scummy. (2)
On the other, he's ALWAYS scummy, regardless of alignment. (3)
What I mean is I think he's fitting his town meta so far. (4)

four different opinions in four lines about someone who is obvscum. scumpartner number one found.

[populartajo]

it doesnt make sense at least in two different ways:

1. you say he has scumtells but somehow you think he is playing more his town meta. Does this make sense to you? If he has scumtells then he is more likely to come up scum than someone who doesnt have scumtells, right?

2. you say that you think he is playing his town meta (which is very little different than his scum meta). This ability to differentiate his town meta and his scum meta require a good ability to read him, yet you say that you have a hell of a time reading him.

there are other things like saying that you think he has scumtells, then that he is playing more like town and then that you read on him is null, but I feel like you are trying to say something and failing in the attempt.

think for a second and then come up with what you really want to say.

[populartajo]

who is voting for me and why?

[populartajo]

i know you are a well reasoner so this is not looking for you, did you miss the massive explanations that have been provided, even the guy who supposedly "caught" this has apologized for not understanding what I was doing and confusing it with a contradiction?

[populartajo]

The way Amrun responded makes me reconsider my scumread on her. Im even leaning on very likely town if Furcolow is indeed scum. I dont see a scumpartner defending the way she did.

[populartajo]

do you think am I scummier than Furcolow?

more importantly, why dont you think Furc is scum when he is basically IS with less reasoning?

[populartajo]

Coug, what is the difference between IS and Furcolow?

[populartajo]

ender is town. I definitely dont see scum claiming the way he did.

[populartajo]

Xalxe how do you define scumhunting?

Also please scumlist in your following post.

[populartajo]

Xalxe, links to other town games now.

[populartajo]

Xalxe, do you have aditional games in the site?

[populartajo]

Xalxe, do you have aditional games in the site?

Approx. 1 finished (really crappy scum) and 2 where I'm dead but that are ongoing.

link me to the finished game plz

[populartajo]

ok, i did some analysis in Xalxe's games and I really think Xalxe is not the play today. (this means the obvtown read I had from him has diminished but I still have some reasons to think he can be town).

The town game, he started it by proposing discussion in "Lynch all liars?", similar to his behavior here with the role claiming idea. He also compiled the doctor actions in night 1 similar to the actions here.

The scum game, he made himself very obvious by FOSing only Hoopla in a post in RVS. He was very aggressive against Fate, the competing wagon, a behavior that is only slightly repeated with Zajnet, who is not the competing wagon. I must add that it would have been very easy to jump against Olinea but instead Xalxe insisted on proving his role.

Finally, calling six people scum is a towntell so yeah I think we should be lynching Furcolow here.

[populartajo]

SC, where did your endertown read go?

[populartajo]

I dont understand something, who sent ender's detonator role?

Plum, do you think claiming the way ender did is indicative of scum?

[populartajo]

Also, we need a votecount.

[populartajo]

Thadmiral, Amrun, Olinea, Plum, ender241, danakillsu, brokenscraps, Xalxe, Tasky

guys, its time to either compromise to one of the top wagons (Xalxe, Furcolow or ender) or make a solid case against any other choice, tia.

[populartajo]

why doesnt he look town to you?

[populartajo]

unvote

I liked your promptness in linking to your meta, Xalxe, plus you've been playing better recently
I don't care if you're the top wagon. I'm not sure you're scum.

vote: Danakillsu

I've been wanting this guy dead all day

vote: xalxe

Why isnt this guy even near a lynch?

Guys, regardless of Xalxe alignment, this is scum with BLATANT LYING. Gogogo scumlynch.

Confirm vote: Furcolow.

[populartajo]

That's a complete misrepresentation.

Errr..., NO.

I liked your promptness in linking to your meta, Xalxe, plus you've been playing better recently
I don't care if you're the top wagon.

I'm not sure you're scum

.

I've been wanting this guy dead all day
vote: xalxe

you are lying to hop to a wagon of someone you are not even sure is scum.

how is that a misrepresentation?

[populartajo]

What the hell are you doing?

Xalxe is a non optymal lynch. Yesterday some people were voting him instead of Furcolow who is now confirmed scum. This gives Xalxe some town points as Im pretty sure its the lynch scum wanted until the last moment where Furc made the slip.

lets lynch coug who is OBVIOUSLY Furcolow scumpartner.

I was asked for a top three. Furcolow is scummy, but not to the extent of you three.

diescumdie

Coug, what is the difference between IS and Furcolow?

Internet Stranger was clearly throwing crap at Olinea to see what sticks, while Furcolow's logic regarding Olinea's wagon makes little sense.

I asked this precisely because InternetStranger and Furcolow were doing basically the same thing when attacking Olinea for the detonator stuff, yet Coug somehow thought IS was scum but Furcolow made little sense.

Vote: StrangerCoug.

[populartajo]

I dont even want to understand what has happened with all the revival and the 1955 snipping.

Furcolow....
....oh right, now I remember you. You're a VI.

When hunting for possible scumpartners, DemonHybrid came up as second suspect.
Other reasons include voting using weak reasoning and backtracking on his read on me to support a lynch on a townie.

DemonHybrid's Question: Who is scum?

tajo and IS I'd say.

tajo makes the most valid point of all. He's really have gotten better as of late.

Vote: Strangercoug

and killing Plum.

Unvote Vote: Demonhybrid.

[populartajo]

thats irrelevant and thats not a vote for demonhybrid

pretty sure they are going to get killed sooner or later

if they somehow misteriously survive, we can still lynch them.

tl dr, we shouldnt even worry about that possibility

[populartajo]

also happy scumday

[populartajo]

where did DH avidly scumhunted, cooldog?

[populartajo]

posts 6 and 7 are stupid attacks to Olinea because she supposedly was the bomb detonator for posting the word detonate, that is far from scumhunting. Ill concede post 22 even though its weak but yeah my point stands, one post of "scumhunting" and we are in day 3. Try again?

[populartajo]

What the hell are you doing?
Xalxe is a non optymal lynch. Yesterday some people were voting him instead of Furcolow who is now confirmed scum. This gives Xalxe some town points as Im pretty sure its the lynch scum wanted until the last moment where Furc made the slip.

[populartajo]

What the hell are you doing?
Xalxe is a non optymal lynch. Yesterday some people were voting him instead of Furcolow who is now confirmed scum. This gives Xalxe some town points as Im pretty sure its the lynch scum wanted until the last moment where Furc made the slip.

[populartajo]

current position

DemonHybrid>>>Deathnote>Xalxe.

Why do you people think DemonHybrid is town?

[populartajo]

I dont even want to understand what has happened with all the revival and the 1955 snipping.

Furcolow....
....oh right, now I remember you. You're a VI.

When hunting for possible scumpartners, DemonHybrid came up as second suspect.
Other reasons include voting using weak reasoning and backtracking on his read on me to support a lynch on a townie.

DemonHybrid's Question: Who is scum?

tajo and IS I'd say.

tajo makes the most valid point of all. He's really have gotten better as of late.

Vote: Strangercoug

and killing Plum.

Unvote Vote: Demonhybrid.

also constant apologizing (scared of being caught scumtell).

Sorry guys, probably going to do a full post when I have computer access at my parents house late this night about my opinions so far. Not going to get into detail since I'm on my phone.

I'm having a ton of weather and car problems. Post coming in a few hours, apologies.

[populartajo]

DemonHybrid, whats wrong with having FoSes and Votes in the same post?

Also if IS thinks both Xalxe and Coug are scum, whats wrong on him restating his Xalxe suspicion?

[populartajo]

You want to make a case about bad arguments, go harass the one that made the initial crappy argument in the first place, not me. Its not my fault that it sounded good at the time and thats where the momentum shifted. By your logic, you should be all over Tajo. Inconsistent much?

where did DemonHybrid made a case about bad argument?

[populartajo]

what dont you like about my case, Nocmen?

[populartajo]

DemonHybrid, whats wrong with having FoSes and Votes in the same post?
Also if IS thinks both Xalxe and Coug are scum, whats wrong on him restating his Xalxe suspicion?

I feel as if the xalxe suspicion has been a constant backup. He sort of rides along on his SC vote while making a stronger case against Xalxe, yet not voting for him. I don't find it authentic; somethings off.
And yes, a majority of cases where FoSes and votes happen in the same post, it's bad news. That's for mafia discussion and not here though. It's certainly not the basis of my argument, as IS did it all bandwagon.

You are missing the point. If IS thinks both Coug and Xalxe are scum, then its not bad to vote for one and restate his suspicion on the other. Having a stronger case is irrelevant in the context of a wagon with a lot of momentum.
Also, link me to those cases where FoSes and votes in the same post mean bad news.

[populartajo]

WIR, why the hell did you target me yesterday?

[populartajo]

WIR, why the hell did you target me yesterday?

I don't know. I didn't have anything important to talk about, so I picked randomly. Same thing with day 1.

do you realize that what you did is extremely scummy?

To all, WIR's ability targetted me yesterday. Ill let him explain what that ability did and why it is scummy as hell.

[populartajo]

He told me he targetted you night 1. Didnt he tell you what his ability did?

[populartajo]

are you like restricted to vote for whomever cooldog does?

[populartajo]

you dont need to read the whole thread and you know it. I hope you are proud of being confirmed trusting awesome scumhunter cooldog.

[populartajo]

what dont you like about my case, Nocmen?

I see where your case is working, but no case makes sense when DH is town

tell me why should I trust you

[populartajo]

1. Using the VI defense to avoid voting for confirmed scum.

2. Backtracking his scum read on me to support a lynch on a confirmed townie.

3. Demonhybrid was one of top Plum suspects.

4. Constant apologizing.

Where is the wrong in my assiumptions?

[populartajo]

I might add the weak case on InternetStrange that its tl;dr is something like he fosed and voted in the same post.

[populartajo]

1 and 2: the idea is that they are confirmed now, which means that at that time, DemonHybridscum defended Furcolowscum with the VI defense and that DemonHybridscum backtracked his scum read on me to support a lynch on StrangerCoug who now wek now is town.

3. no it doesnt but scum kill problematic townies all the time.

4. so?

[populartajo]

What the hell are you doing?
Xalxe is a non optymal lynch. Day 1 some people were voting him instead of Furcolow who is now confirmed scum. This gives Xalxe some town points as Im pretty sure its the lynch scum wanted until the last moment where Furc made the slip.

we should be lynching demonhybrid.

[populartajo]

multilple scumteams with one nightkill? sure thing bro,

Also, Mafia C impies three scumteams which adds more swinginess to a swingy game like this one.

my point is that yeah Xalxe could be scum but he is not an optymal lynch when there are scummier people and when he was the another wagon (where Im pretty sure Furc partners were) besides the one that got our scum lynch day 1!

Do you think DemonHybrid is scum? y/n?

[populartajo]

this is what Im talking about:

Xalxe (8) - DeathNote, zoraster, Zajnet, Internet Stranger, Sevei, ender241, WhenInRome, Furcolow
Furcolow (5) - Nocmen, populartajo, Xalxe, DemonHybrid, Fishythefish

Furcolowscum was sitting at 5 votes while Xalxe was sitting at 8 and close to a lynch. If we assume Furcolow is not scum with Xalxe (town or "another team") what could Furcolow scumpartners be doing in this votecount?

Yes. Voting Xalxe.

Thats why Xalxe is not an optymal lynch with the information we have after Furcolowscum flip.

Furcolow (9) – Nocmen, populartajo, Xalxe, DemonHybrid, Fishythefish, danakillsu, StrangerCoug, Internet Stranger, DeathNote
Xalxe (6) – zoraster, Zajnet, Sevei, ender241, WhenInRome, Furcolow

When the lynch became inevitable, after Furcolow fakeclaimed cop, Im pretty sure there was some bussing involved. People that switched: dana, SCoug, IStranger, Deathnote. One of these guys is scum.

If nobody is getting the DemonHybrid hate then Im willing to swith to Deathnote, since both dana and coug are now dead and town, and I have a neutral on IS.

In fact, lets do this:

Unvote Vote: Deathnote.

[populartajo]

Last time someone convinced me that they were 100% sure that their guy was scum, Strangercoug got lynched.

says the guy who was 100% sure Olinea was the detonator.

[populartajo]

Also WIR needs to fucking explain why did he target me with that scummy ability yesterday.

[populartajo]

Also WIR needs to fucking explain why did he target me with that scummy ability yesterday.

How the fuck is my ability scummy?

you told me that now Id be investigated as guilty. How isnt that scummy?

[populartajo]

poptajo, what abilities does he have besides the immediately apparent one?

didnt he tell you that?

[populartajo]

Additionally, how do you know scum werent parking votes on Furcolow thinking that Xalxe was a definite lynch?

its also possible, and its why I also think DemonHybrid fits in the scumteam.

The important thing is that not all Furc scumpartners were parking votes on Furcolow. That would be idiotic. A group of scumpartners was definitely voting Xalxe to secure his lynch since its impossible all the people that voted Xalxe were town.

[populartajo]

so it doesnt get lost in the bottom of last page.

Also WIR needs to fucking explain why did he target me with that scummy ability yesterday.

How the fuck is my ability scummy?

you told me that now Id be investigated as guilty. How isnt that scummy?

[populartajo]

Furcolow (9) – Nocmen, populartajo, Xalxe, DemonHybrid, Fishythefish, danakillsu, StrangerCoug, Internet Stranger, DeathNote
Xalxe (6) – zoraster, Zajnet, Sevei, ender241, WhenInRome, Furcolow

When the lynch became inevitable, after Furcolow fakeclaimed cop, Im pretty sure there was some bussing involved. People that switched: dana, SCoug, IStranger, Deathnote. One of these guys is scum.

If nobody is getting the DemonHybrid hate then Im willing to swith to Deathnote, since both dana and coug are now dead and town, and I have a neutral on IS.

In fact, lets do this:

Unvote Vote: Deathnote.

[populartajo]

that was a post from yesterday btw and stll applies

[populartajo]

what difference does it make if you quicklynch me. You will probably lynch me today. Just remember that chess has a double vote.

why is this important?

[populartajo]

who the hell submitted vanilla?

also deathnote if you think claiming vanilla would not save you why did you softclaim it?

[populartajo]

also also you can still play the scumhunting game assuming you are town.

Who is scum and why?

[populartajo]

I really doubt Lllama gave someone a vanilla townie role. Goes against the spirit of the game. Its more likely a scum role that flips vanilla.

Answer to zajnet case in two hours.