Reckamonic's WoW Mafia (Over)

[The Fonz]

Let's see, who do I most want to policy lynch...eeny, meenie, miney,

Vote:Shotty

.

I would like us to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of everyone claiming the two upick choices they made that didn't end up as their actual role.

[The Fonz]

Let's see, who do I most want to policy lynch...eeny, meenie, miney,

Vote:Shotty

.

I would like us to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of everyone claiming the two upick choices they made that didn't end up as their actual role.

Their would be no benefit from doing that.
It would help scum decipher who doesn't have what. Although it would be like insanely small information, I don't see any benefit to town.

You see, I was more 'I see small but noticeable benefit, and little to no drawbacks.' Makes scum who listed all-horde lie, without actually outing any town roles, since, y'know, we're not claiming

roles

, and there's no reason someone couldn't submit three similar roles. Provides a conversation stimulus without anyone having to do anything stupid.

Though I was pretty sure someone would come up with a way to say it was antitown.

God, I hate Tarhalindur style 'lynch the mod' crappiness.

[The Fonz]

Hey uh, Fonz.
Horde does not scum imply
Alliance does not town imply

Win Condition (For the Alliance!):

You win when all threats have been eliminated and the land of Azeroth is safe once again.

This seemed to suggest to me that alliance = town.

[The Fonz]

We know there's a cult (likely death knight/liche king aligned) but I wasn't expecting there to be only a cult. And I CERTAINLY didn't think, given that my WC is titled 'For the alliance' that alliance scum makes that much sense. I suppose you could have alliance races that aren't alliance-aligned, like the Orange traitors in WCII.

Shotty, quote your WC and the bolded bit preceding it, please.

Krazy, the rules of this game state specifically that you can quote your role PM, so good job with having read them and everything.

[The Fonz]

unvote

Shotty's almost certainly town at the moment.

The problem I have with lynching the mod is that it basically short-circuits the usual wagon-building stuff that allows town to look back on later days and find the scum. If we're lynching the mod, no-one's talking about who's scummy. I mean, it may be necessary but... bleurgh.

[The Fonz]

I suppose it's a good way to circumvent the 'Possibility of CR getting lynched D1 problem' for the mods.

Yes, I'm reading it. Horde or other-aligned scum aren't likely to volunteer 'Oh I'm a horde town' if they think the alliance townies might think horde are scum.

[The Fonz]

At least, not until an actual horde town player did.

Most of my Warcraft world knowledge is based on having played both campaigns in Tides of Darkness through, and secondary sources, incidentally. And the Big Bang Theory. I haven't actually played it.

[The Fonz]

BTW, mod gives flavor fakeclaims, so if shotty WERE scum and had a horde fakeclaim, I don't see why he wouldn't do what he did. I think he's town anyways though.

Right, but often with things like that, if the player wants a full PM to fakeclaim or something, they often have to PM the mod and ask for it. It's quite possible scum got the 'threats to Azeroth' thing, but not entire role PMs to begin with.

PE: LOL Shotty.

[The Fonz]

unvote, vote reckamonic

I suppose as the least worst option.

Jeez guys, get your own mod trademark.

[The Fonz]

Guys, is your masonry cult-immune?

[The Fonz]

Katsuki, if you don't know, FIND OUT (but the answer's probably no). I don't want one of you dying and the remaining one turning around and going 'Yeah, we're totally uncultable.'

And of course Ben's not serious.

P-E: Sweet, no modlynching bullshit.

[The Fonz]

OK, on the

I find it suspicious that Starbuck says that she thinks pickclaim is bad because it leads to role discussion (I disagree, but that's beside the point- we don't need to do that to spur discussion) then blatantly rolefishes Katsuki (chose Elf, huh)?
On the twilight's hammer point, starbuck, I don't suspect them because I don't know who they are. Like I said, my flavour knowledge is basically limited to the games themselves rather than WoW, but undead make sense as cult flavor in general).

Toogeloo 309 is a good point. To fake the kill as a gambit is one thing. To fake the whole role PM? That's much dodgier. Fake daykills don't fall under LAL (they're usually just RVS bullshitting), but fake roleclaims do.

Shotty is making a ton of sense here, actually. Pretending to have killed someone is likely to result in their claiming. And scum can always rely on the WIFOM defence, because someone ALWAYS ALWAYS makes it.

I dunno, I don't think anyone here read the rules once before PARTICIPATING in the thread!

Hi. And I expected everyone else to.

I will comment on Tragedy's replacing in to note that she is strongly infected with othersitemeta, and people need to take that into account.

IPie voting Toog for LALvoting him stinks. Hey guys, supporting LAL is good play, but more importantly, players who support LAL always do it as town. Voting someone for that is scummy.

Players who fakeclaim don't get to fall back on the 'I don't want to reveal my role' excuse. Want fullclaim.

Tragedy has clearly not read the game.

Non-recruiting masons in a 20+ player game...

Are much more common than recruiting mason, which is a very rare role. What's your point?

And PLEASE explain to me why what I did is anti-town.

And before you say rolefishing, remember that you claimed with no prompt. I didn't say "HEY YOU'RE DEAD NOW CLAIM BITCH". You did that on your own. I was looking for reactions, honestly did not expect a claim (let alone bomb-PGO).

It's a pretty likely reaction to being apparently daykilled, IPie, one that I would have expected you to be able to anticipate.

The talk about Dwarves reminds me - in the next WoW mafia, I'm not going to try and end RVS via a fake daykill.

Ending RVS doesn't justify doing legitimately antitown things. Plus, you could have admitted the gambit earlier rather than fake-PMing.

CPie being a dwarf himself seems much more likely than the 'IPie told him' explanation.

Forget it's me saying it, because I know this is WIFOM, but... think. And remember Occam's Razor.

Why.
Would.
Scum.
Do.
This.

Because it's likely to result in a roleclaim from the target, then plenty of people will buy the 'Why would scum do it?' argument. Basically, I don't accept your defence because I think you should, as town, have known he was likely to claim in response, and would also have known this as scum (providing plausible motive).

Arthas' reaction to the CPie/Dwarf thing here is townish, I think.

IM FAILFUCKTOWN WHO USES INSULTS AS A FORM OF CONTENT

LOLirony.

GUYS STOP FUCKING TELLING EVERYONE YOU'RE NOT VIGS, KTHANXBAI.

THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE NEED TO POST MORE:
02. The Fonz
05. Mothrax
11. demonhybrid
12. mockingjaye

The following person needs to chill the fuck out since I've been gone all of ONE DAY, during a weekend, because I was busy IRL (Footy game, then friend's birthday): Krazy. (Incidentally, it fucking sucks to be gone a day, and then have to do a 15-page catchup).

I told Reck in my confirm PM I was V/LA until now. Read up untill page 10 but couldn't stand all the caps bullshit and idiocy. Will catch up on the rest of the pages when I'm rested. What I've noted so far has been mostly already commented on, but I will do so anyway.

We know there's a cult (likely death knight/liche king aligned)

Why would you assume death knight/lich king alligned? For one every has playable race/class role. Secondly all cults have multiple races in their midsts.

I said likely, I'm not assuming. See above: cults are often flavored as some kind of undead.

I don't understand the Toog thing. Wouldn't that be much more likely caused by him copy-pasting the claim and then writing the quote tags rather than quoting it directly?

So you went, quoted your role pm and then zapped the

part? That's what you're saying?
Why would you do that?

Because doing so is at least as quick as quoting the PM directly, waiting for it to load, then copying it?

The joke masonry is not scummy. Jesus Christ.

P-edit: I'll read substrike tomorrow, it's late.

[The Fonz]

Secondly, onto the most pressing matter at the time of this post:
Vezok's catch of Toog's error is actually a big deal, and not something that we should just ignore. I had a similar role pm in OOT mafia, along with Bunny and Vezok, where my primary role was in a block above my "fake claim" role. I didn't have to fill in the blanks, for reasons I won't go into

((which, by the way, Bunny or Vezok, look at Chrono's claim on the previous page or two (it's in the block of claims) and tell me if where it says "abilities go here", did your role pm's look like that? if so, chrono could be scum too.))

, but in order to quote just the secondary role pm, I just copied and pasted it and almost made the same error. I previewed it and it was the only reason I caught my mistake. Someone in a hurry could've easily screwed that up. So for me,

VOTE: Toog

No, really, it isn't. Copy and paste your role pm, write the tags on manually. Voila.

Also Toog was pushing really hard for iPie's lynching over the whole "gambit" deal. I'm not sure how smart a gambit like that on day one is, but it's a null tell at best. Most people that do something that stupidly-attention-grabbing on day one are not the leaders of a cult trying to get their numbers off the ground. He was reaction hunting, more than anything, and he also got discussion sparked. I'm reading him as town, honestly. Which inherently makes you a bit scummier, plus the slip up. Comfortable with that vote for now.

You're assuming cult are the only scum, which is not an assumption town can make at this stage. Also, the fact that you think it is a null tell at best doesn't mean people are scum for thinking it isn't. I can see obvious scum motivation: the town motive is far more opaque. The SWDT argument doesn't really work since not only is there not anything close to a majority of the town, and in fact there's at least as many people willing to go after anyone who ever suggests a policy lynch (ironically, a policy lynch of policy lynchers) as there are people who actually support policy lynching (as the number one advocate of policy lynching on this site, I should know).

See Jack in Consulmaker. Lots of people made the 'scum wouldn't do that' argument there, as well. (That said, the level of arrogance in IPie's posts does make me think he genuinely believes he was doing the right thing).

This vote on Agar is weird. What's the reasoning behind it? If it is simply that he joined a wagon with no reason, then you will need to lynch half the people in this game. Anything else scummy about Agar?

Also, thanks for signing your posts Chess.

If you never voted someone for doing something scummy because someone else was doing it, you'd never vote anyone, least of all scum. Also, that's pretty clearly not Bunny's point (it's a pretty good argument, imho).

Honestly, Toog was scummy before for pushing the iPie thing which I thought was a vote of opportunity in and of itself, and then the "slip" on the role pm is just kind of icing on the cake. The two in combination are enough for Day 1 and more, cumulatively, than anyone else has on them at this point.

This just feels opportunistic as fuck.

About Vezok:

I think we should claim classes and their bonuses. Scum probably know more than us.

Fishing for class bonusses. Scum probably doesn't know more as they have to fill in their role PM's themselves and as such knowing all the class bonusses makes that a lot easier for them.

Uh, no. Asking people to claim a certain piece of information is not fishing. Fishing is where you try to trick or finesse someone into unwittingly making a statement that outs role information. Outright asking people to do so is not fishing. It's not a great idea, but I don't tend to find proponents of such things to be scummy. Usually, they're town trying to find a way to help the town who haven't thought it through.

And again..

You see, why does Vezok sticking to his guns make him scummier? Your argument is basically 'He said something I didn't like, and he didn't immediately back down when people questioned him over it."

IPie voting Toog for LALvoting him stinks. Hey guys, supporting LAL is good play, but more importantly, players who support LAL always do it as town. Voting someone for that is scummy.

Look at my wiki. The game is Handsometown, I think. I was scum and pushed someone that fakeclaimed BP as doc (I think) under the pretense of LAL. So no, not always.

And you're normally a policy lynch opponent? This would be the first time I have ever seen that happen. Usually, when someone who's normally anti-PL has the opportunity to support one, it would be so fucking obviously scummy that they wouldn't do it.

Seriously IP, were you actually not aware that people who think they're dead often claim? ("Nice going dumbass, you just killed the doc' etc).

The fact that LLD is quite content to push any VI wagon she can get traction on is nott awesome enough for you?

What happened to her Chrono suspicions and his "terribad just iso him" play?

This is obvious, ill look awesome after the flip obviously.

Pretty good point.

Vote LLD

since there doesn't seem to be much prospect of an IPie lynch, and this is much better than a toog lynch, since toog is very townish.

Wait why is substrike scum again?

Because 'OMG HE SUPPORTS POLICY LYNCHING, HE MUST BE SCUM!' is a terrible argument and looks opportunistic.

Second, how was a blatantly rolefishing? It was a joke. Here let me show you...

I'M GONNA BE A COMPLETE TREE-HUGGER THIS GAME

Picked Night Elf, huh? =P

Night Elves are well known to be nature lovers (i.e. tree huggers), hence my reply to Katsuki.

Yeah, it's totally impossible that he might reply to this in such a way that suggests whether he's an Elf or not. Then you've got the convenient 'it was a joke' excuse.

Lack of knowledge and/or lack of even trying to learn is no excuse.

Bugger me, you're condescending. I've read the wikipedia page on the setting. How much research do you think it's possible to do, short of actually playing the game?

I understand how undead/DK make sense, now how about you get caught up on the latest events of WoW before you discredit my working knowledge of the CURRENT LORE of the game.

How about you don't try to say things that are utterly untrue? Where have I once even discussed your knowledge of the game? You asked me why I thought X and not Y, and I explained. Accusing me of trying to 'discredit' anyone is just utter bullshit, and you know it.

[The Fonz]

Yeah, it's totally impossible that he might reply to this in such a way that suggests whether he's an Elf or not. Then you've got the convenient 'it was a joke' excuse.

Kats is a she and I didn't expect an answer because it was a JOKE. But keep pushing this to say I was rolefishing because any normal WoW player would get it.

Meh, I've tried to clear up the Kats/gender issue in the past, and she wasn't forthcoming, so I reverted to assuming male. Anyhow, I don't think that knowing Elves like trees is limited to WoW players.

Bugger me, you're condescending. I've read the wikipedia page on the setting. How much research do you think it's possible to do, short of actually playing the game?

You said you didn't know, hence the education and link.

I'm not objecting to the link, flavor help etc, that's useful, and I thank you for it. It's the way you're talking to me like I'm an eight-year-old.

How about you don't try to say things that are utterly untrue? Where have I once even discussed your knowledge of the game? You asked me why I thought X and not Y, and I explained. Accusing me of trying to 'discredit' anyone is just utter bullshit, and you know it.

It seems as though you think your undead/dk theory is the end all be all. So why disregard me when I provide another possible threat (and known cult in the game)? It's still a possibility.

OK, and here's the utterly untrue bit. I don't see how there's anything remotely approaching a basis to think that I believed my theory to be the be all and end all (All I said was there was a cult and I thought it would probably be undead flavoured) and when you talked about Twilight's Hammer, I didn't disregard it. I took it on board. Nowhere do I even begin to suggest that your TH theory is wrong in any way.

[The Fonz]

Here is two arguments you just proposed.

In one, you agree with Fate's point that "LLD is only lynching VI's, thus scum."

In the other, you condemn Substrike for saying "These people are policy lynching, therefor scum."

Contradictions, ho~!

Craplogic ho!

Your point rests on the idea that all VI lynches are policy lynches, and that just isn't true. If you'd said 'Look, Vezok's playstyle is such a detriment to town he has to go regardless' it would have shown balls. What you appear to be doing is pushing weak players with crappy attempts to paint them as scum.

[The Fonz]

Haha. Nice misrep. I'd rather you were open and honest rather than looking dishonest and opportunistic, yes.

[The Fonz]

If you'd said 'Look, Vezok's playstyle is such a detriment to town he has to go regardless' it would have shown balls.

Does this look like a misrep to you? You flat out SAID it. You would be happier with a Policy lynch over a scum lynch.

Which is interesting, because didn't you call Substrike scum for saying that?

I'm not calling you quoting me a misrep. (Implying as such is... guess what?)

THIS:

you'd rather have me lynch someone for being a bad player, rather than lynching them for being scum

is the misrep because that's not what I'm doing at all. Clearly, I don't think what you're doing to Vezok is 'lynching him for being scum.' I think you're either a townie who seems to be misinterpreting things as scummy which aren't, or you're scum who thinks he's a pretty easy target to attack because any defence of himself he might mount won't be coherent. Finding one VI scummy = perfectly plausible. Finding the people who just happen to be the worst players scummy, when imho I think Vezok has shown clear indication of genuine scumhunting = suspicious to me.

[The Fonz]

LLD: Calling me fail doesn't make it untrue. Claiming a vote is not serious is not something I particularly find townish.

[The Fonz]

unvote, vote: Baby Spice

[The Fonz]

Ey, Fonz, this days lasted long enough. Babys not going anywhere.

Come on now, we can run this town together. There should be enough docs...

Meh. Looking back over my exchange with LLD, she really comes across frustrated town to me, when I view it dispassionately (ie I allow for my annoyance at being attacked with what I think is utter craplogic). Meanwhile, Baby Spice is guilty of a ton of lurking in plain sight- it took her like ten posts before she called

anything

scummy- then in that post she sounded really sure, then she jumps off to vote the leading wagon a few posts later. Plus, several people seem to have her in their 'Yeah, we should take a look at...' list but no-one seems willing to actually vote her.

That says good scum candidate to me.

[The Fonz]

No lurk lynch d1 k thx. Baby isn't goin anywhere, LLd can't be left alive

Uh, not lurking, active lurking. Posting but not scumhunting. You know, what scum do.

And this day hasn't 'lasted long enough.' It's not even been a RL week. I can't help it if you fuckers want to spam up the thread.

[The Fonz]

Not to mention Fate, I'm the fucking Fonz. Quite often, I only get one day to scumhunt, so I'm gonna do it until I'm all scumhunted out, whatever you might think.

@Shotty: If that's the case, I really don't WANT to. That level of spam pretty much makes scumhunting impossible. It's like playing in a game with five Mastins.

[The Fonz]

Right, Tragedy is obvscum.

That said, can we wait until everyone has checked in to lynch her please?

Vezok is kinda townish, Gollum.. ya don't know? I thought fonz was more likely to be cult leader due to wondering about each perk for races. As in, the cult recruiter was likely told they may not be allowed to recruit certain types.

This is just simply not true. I've gone through my ISO in case I did it by mistake and couldn't remember, but at no point did I ever 'wonder about each perk for races.'

[The Fonz]

Fate, can you explain why you have gone from dismissing my attacks on Baby Spice to demanding her fullclaim with only a vote or two on her?

[The Fonz]

Also [Fate]WHO THE FUCK MISTAKES ME FOR VEZOK? I MEAN, REALLY?[/Fate]

[The Fonz]

Fate, can you explain why you have gone from dismissing my attacks on Baby Spice to demanding her fullclaim with only a vote or two on her?

Explain to me how you can ask that question and still call yourself a mafia player.

HOW ABOUT YOU NOT BE A FUCKING RAGING DOUCHE? YOU SHOWED NO INTEREST IN BABY SPICE BEFORE. NOW YOU WANT A CLAIM WITHOUT HER BEING IN LYNCH RANGE WITH NO FUCKING REASON. OF COURSE I'M GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION YOU ASSHAT!

[The Fonz]

Tragedy, if there were even the slightest possibility of you not being a liar, then you would have posted the PM without the blanks. Also, there's no way Reckamonic, being - y'know - two people, wouldn't have caught a glaring mistake like that.

[The Fonz]

So, you did not in fact 'protect the troll race last night?'

[The Fonz]

'Female doctor' as in, doctor that only works on females, could make sense, except for Tragedy's insistence that she (as in, her character) is female. The only sane reading of the full role PM tragedy claims to have is that she's a man, who can only protect women, but that's not what she said. Also, if 'Female doctor' is the rolename, why leave in the 'female' but redact the 'doctor?'

Flavour experts, anyone know if the 'Flash of Light' class ability makes sense as a protection for females only?

[The Fonz]

Hmmm. That's got me back thinking scum then.

I was really starting to lean that the 'I guess blue is town' thing is just a lazy/stupid player posting phrasing something badly, and the role PM thing a Mist7676 level butchering of a claim to make it look as fake as possible (I mean, imagine the difference between her putting *BLANK* and her putting *REDACTED* or *WITHHELD*). I mean, I don't actually think it made any sense to claim the race and class, but not the actual abilities. I wouldn't have claimed at all, and if I did, I'd have fullclaimed. But just because something seems horribly illogical to me doesn't mean a VI didn't think it.

Does anyone have an example of the scum fake PMs from OoT?

[The Fonz]

OK, this inclines me to believe that Tragedy is genuine, and I now think I understand your Toogeloo point better. (Still think copy-pasting the role pm is perfectly possible, but your explanation isn't unlikely. Still, get a town vibe from his play).

Though note, if the fakeclaims were set out like this, a scum who had to claim first would have been screwed.

[The Fonz]

Which is relevant to what?

[The Fonz]

Because if you didn't, you'd get caught?

[The Fonz]

No. It's like suspecting a newbie who proposes nolynch.

[The Fonz]

I'm not sure I'm convinced yet, but this is such a convoluted roleclaim when combined with her actions that I will

unvote

for now. The day is young anyway.

The key I think, is it does make a kind of VIish sense that she was a doctor of women, and didn't read it right and got the wrong end of the stick regarding what her gender was hence cutting off half of her named role. It's hard to see how scum fakeclaiming makes the same error.

It's kind of funny how Tragedy's 'I don't play WoW' defence basically amounts to: I'm incompetent, therefore I must be town.

That said: Tragedy, could you please tell us your three race/class/ability choices?

I would like Toog to state (or re-state)

precisely

how his 'role pm' came to be in the post in the form it did. If he's town, it should be a reasonably simple explanation.

[The Fonz]

Oh, and if Ben doesn't explain, we should probably lynch him.

[The Fonz]

Benmage, are you ever going to explain what the hell is up with these "dayrecruit" things?

I doubt it.

Oh, and if Ben doesn't explain, we should probably lynch him.

Check your QT. You're now with me and Fate. Dont play against your own WC silly.

LOL. But seriously, how can I know you're not actually a cult leader who can recruit me at the end of the day, and this whole recruiting in broad daylight thing is not just a gigantic wifom on the part of you and/or the mods?

[The Fonz]

Why are you making such asinine speculation? Of course there's scum, there isn't a game otherwise. Do you mean a mafia group specifically?

[The Fonz]

It could be. There were three kills. It's possible there are three UPick roles which have killing as the/a possible consequence of their night action. It's also perfectly possible there's a mafia or an SK, we don't know yet.

I'm starting to think the CR may basically have the exact same kind of PM as everyone else, just with one additional active ability.

[The Fonz]

You mean she'd probably have forgotten the replacement bit if she were faking? Yeah, actually given Trag's incompetence, that's highly likely. Problem, of course, is we can't guarantee she stays town.

Hate Ben wanting to 'policy lynch' a player who has obviously been trying to scumhunt.

If no-one else claims the shotty kill (grrr, he was obvtown) then CPie is pretty much confirmed not-recruiter.

[The Fonz]

asdfjiaodsf
the male female is not the goddamn slip
the slip is the going "hurr i guess blue is town" WHEN SHE'S ALLIANCE AND HAS BLUE ROLE PM AND IS THEREFORE BLUE

She's stupid and phrased it badly, not wanting to say it with certainty for fear of giving away her own role, not realising it's f-in obvious if she's not horde she's alliance. Anything else?

Also, the fact that Ben says he's recruiting during the day doesn't automatically mean he's recruiting at night. The only real evidence towards being or not being CR is play, and whether or not someone does something else confirmable at night.

[The Fonz]

Horde.

[The Fonz]

Also, the fact that Ben says he's recruiting during the day doesn't automatically mean he's recruiting at night. The only real evidence towards being or not being CR is play, and whether or not someone does something else confirmable at night.

Obviously meant to say 'doesn't automatically mean he's NOT recruiting at night.'

[The Fonz]

Like, did anyone read day one?

[The Fonz]

Why not? Confirms him as taking a non-recruit night action.

[The Fonz]

How could that possibly be read as he knows culted players lose abilities? If he knew culted players lost abilities, he wouldn't worry about how many shots he might have left when culted. It does make it clear he's limited-shot, but hey ho.

[The Fonz]

Yeah. I think it would have been best for everyone who has a confirmable ability to claim, or no-one at all.

[The Fonz]

The town didn't know for sure there was only a CR.

Grrrr I was so hugely pissed off when I got on to find LLD had been quicklynched, since I had role information proving her not to be CR.

[The Fonz]

They were too busy fixating on apparent inconsistencies in role PMs. A problem, which, to be fair, was not helped by the gigantic heaping of fail that was your inability to actually read your pm.

[The Fonz]

The problem was, the mods could not modkill immediately without handing the cult the game. And since town looked very much like they were about to lynch the CR, then that would have been hugely unsatisfactory- a game that was otherwise going to be won by town would have been handed to the cult based on an innocent mistake by a town player in a game where it was specifically stated you could quote your role pm. I don't agree with GreyICE on the 'extra information' angle- it was more likely than not they were going to lynch Katsuki anyway. Without the modkill, and with Kats being reflexive-roleblocked, there was no way cult could have won.

So basically, the mods tried to chart a middle course between letting the game run its course and the town win, which would have been unsatisfactory because town would have 'gotten away' with AKR giving up the QT link, or modkilling him and handing the cult the game by mod fiat, which would have sucked equally. I think if they'd done that, you'd have seen the town players raging in the exact same way the cult players were raging. Obviously, the compromise didn't work either. But I don't think there was anything else they could have done that would have been better.

[The Fonz]

Agar saying "sorry guys, I was culted TWO NIGHTS AGO, and I don't want to play anymore" would have transformed his gamethrow into an OPTIMAL PLAY. Who knows what the fuck would have happened if town thought there was still an SK, when Substrike and Agar were crossed?

No-one wants to play 'Guess if the player acting as if he's throwing the game really is' which is why such things should normally be modkillable.

Can't agree with gandalf's last point, either you have a rule that you get modkilled for posting QT links or you don't.

[The Fonz]

Chesskid, if you think throwing 'faggot' around as an insult isn't homophobic, you're a fucking tool. It's like saying throwing the N-word around isn't racist.

[The Fonz]

I get agitated every time this debate comes up. It's just a word. I call myself a faggot sometimes. Words don't define us, so why let them hold enough power over us to cause such rage?

It's like: "if someone called you a cardboard box, does that make you a cardboard box?

Well, no. But everytime someone uses 'Faggot' as an insult, or uses 'gay' as a synonym of 'sucky' it reinforces the whole gay = bad notion.

[The Fonz]

Oh, and there's also the high level correlation between use of homophobic language, and general douchiness. See: Bryant, Kobe.