A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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GreyICE, zoraster initiated the calls for people to not self-vote, but I believe you've only directed complaints at DGB. Why is this?
It seems to me that it is unlikely that we are going to learn anything of value from these early votes to raise at all (regardless of whether or not they are self-votes), and who people chose to raise will only become important as the day goes on. As a result of this line of reasoning, I find Magua's argument against self-voting in post 40 to be a bit of a stretch.
I feel uneasy about GreyICE at the moment. On the one hand, I would be surprised if as scum he would be this willing to throw himself into the spotlight, but on the other hand, his attacks on DGB seem weak and contrived.
I am in agreement with Twilight Sparkle's discussion of Magna's statistical analysis and his complaint that it is now worthless.
Mod and all, I will be V/LA from tomorrow until Monday. It is not clear just how limited my access will be at the moment.
I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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GreyICE, if the Hand of the King is so anti-town, then why do you expect that someone who is pro-town would campaign to get it? Do you think that it is possible for someone to campaign for the Hand on grounds that are different from yours and still be pro-town?
I've looked at your games in the past, and I don't think that your posting style is radically different depending on whether you're town or scum. As far as the particular issue mentioned in the quote above, is there a particular game that you would like to direct me to? It would be quite difficult for me to demonstrate that you never do something as town, but quite easy, I think, for you to provide evidence that you do.MoI wrote: You haven’t ever played with me in a game when I was Town. Did you bother to look to see if my posting style was radically different when I was Town?
Do you think that there is a scum motivation behind GreyICE's exaggeration? If you do, what is it?
You said that GreyICE was overreacting, paranoid and acting crazy. To me, all of these things paint him in a negative light, but none of them is particularly scummy, at least not in these circumstances. Doing that is what I am calling mudslinging.Kast wrote: You should clarify what you mean by mudslinging, because by any standard usage, you are misapplying the term.
There are probably multiple scum teams, so I don't really see why there should be any confusion at all, but additionally, my feelings about Magna are comparatively weak those about diddin.Bunny wrote: Zedenk: Forgive me, but I am kinda confused. You are leaning scum on MoI, yet you are voting for Diddin which MoI is currently voting for. My Scum read is voting for this person, by my logic I wouldn't vote that said person too (or at least not on the first day).
Do you mind elaborating?Bunnylover wrote: The more I think about it, the more I am believing that Has post restriction is in fact fake,I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Diddin, there is nothing wrong with the fact that you attacked GreyICE, it is the nature of your arguments that I have a problem with. Moreover, the bulk of the reason why I think that you are scummy is for the reasons already pointed out by Magua.
As far as the hascow business is concerned, I don't feel that it would be a good day one lynch for strategic reasons, much like any policy lynch.
Zoraster, I also would like hearing why you thought ChessKid was dead.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I think my previous explanation of what i meant by mudslinging answers your first question: my choice is "something else" and I've already elaborated.Kast wrote: @Zdenek-
Clarify, are you claiming that:
-I lied/mischaracterized GreyIce's behavior
-I tried push GreyIce's "negative but not scummy behavior" as if it was scummy behavior
-Something else...(elaborate)
From context you seem to think any negative judgment about another player/post, regardless of veracity, is mudslinging if it is not an indictment of that player as scum. However, you aren't applying this same criteria to similar posts by others, which makes your objection seem lazy or insincere.
What I didn't like about what you did in particular was that you phrased your comment as a question:
Other people have definitely done mudslinging, GreyICE for instance, but it's already been pointed out, and some other people have called others dumb or VI's, but passing judgments like that can often be useful. For instance, as an explanation why they aren't voting someone. If you think I've missed something, tell me where it is.Kast wrote: Do you have any links to past games where you similarly go crazy over nothing?
I disagree with this. If we can figure out the technical points of his post restriction, then we can determine when/if he's broken it, and if there are no repercussions, then we know he's faking it.Magua wrote: If you think hasdgfas is scummy (DGB), that's fine. Concentrating solely on the technical points of his post restriction (danakillsu) is useless.
Yes, I read it, and it didn't convince me that you're not scummy. Also, when other people have already given rather convincing arguments against someone, there is nothing to be gained by repeating them.diddin wrote: Did you read my reply to your accusation that my attack was weak? Do you have anything to say about that? Also you're admitting to sheeping Magua which is just BAAAAAAAAAAD (groan).
Mikujin seems scummy to me for his vote on DGB because his reasons seem like they point to null-tells rather than scum-tells.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I like Benmage's observation and my reads on some people are changing, soUnraise Twilight Sparkle
Raise Benmage.
Under the assumption that he is not faking his post restriction, not particularly. I don't have a strong opinion on whether he is faking it at the moment.Magua wrote: So, @Zdenek, do you think hasdgfas is scummy or not?
I think that the case on diddin is pretty good, and this objection is pointless unless you provide some names. I think that the case on GreyICE, who you are voting is weaker at the moment. Although as I read, he is getting scummier (mainly because of his interaction with Xvart).Shadow wrote: @Magua: I see your point, but not the 3 other people voting him. He's definitely not worth voting over some of the other people here =\
Kast, did you actually want GreyICE to provide you with a link to a game where he went "crazy over nothing" and what do you consider to be mudslinging?
Just to be clear, I don't think that I misapplied the term at all. You attacked GreyICE for things that don't have an obvious bearing on his alignment. The scum motivation for it is that it allows scum to paint someone as scummy for no real reason, simply because it is easy for others to conflate negative aspects of a person with scummy ones.
I'm not liking Zoraster's posts. They all seem geared towards an avoidance of scum hunting: the discussion of how the governor power could be used and the one about role-fishing.
GreyICE's catch in 532, is not a real catch, since Xvart never had a stated town read on him, and was answering a question for Magua. I do not like that GreyICE didn't check to see if this was a mistake.
I do not like that Raivann sheeped the case on Xvart without checking it first.
Reads as desperation.Raivann wrote: @Didden- I've actually got a town read on you. Please put you're vote somewhere better.
Can we agree on anyone?
How about Feysal?
What's you're views on xvart?
I don't care for Xtoxm's explanation of his Xvart vote.
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Vote RaivannI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I don't think that your question was genuine.Kast wrote: @Zdenek-
-Yes, that's kinda the point behind asking for it. I didn't expect him to provide anything, but if he did, that would have been nice.
But you saidKast wrote: -Mudslinging as a general term refers to discrediting a person or position by attacking negative characteristics the subject. However, in the context of a mafia game, it more specifically refers to malicious attacks aimed at negative aspects of a person/position instead of attacks aimed at legitimate problems with the person/position. This is frequently used to falsely implicate someone as scum by attacking negative aspects of the person's character, even though those aspects don't actually indicate affiliation.
--In our context, I discredited GreyIce's weak attacks by legitimately pointing out that they are overreactions. To call that "mudslinging" AND claim it is a scum-tell, is inconsistent with your own behavior which similarly called the same posts "exaggerations" etc, and inconsistent with not attacking others who posted similarly to GreyIce and others.
--Also in our context, you are claiming the italicized portion, despite the fact that I did not and am not pushing GreyIce as probable scum, and to the contrary, pointed out his overreactions as neutral/null.
Saying that something rubs you the wrong way is not calling it null or neutral. To me, it indicates that you think that something is scummy or at least that you want others to think of it as scummy; hence, the mudslinging accusation.Kast wrote: I didn't only mean your paranoia about governor power; you're overreacting to almost everyone on almost everything. It rubs me wrong. Do you have any links to past games where you similarly go crazy over nothing?
TheseYou attacked GreyICE for things that don't have an obvious bearing on his alignment. The scum motivation for it is that it allows scum to paint someone as scummy for no real reason, simply because it is easy for others to conflate negative aspects of a person with scummy ones.
are not equivalent statements. The first one only requires that one attack someone for things that have no bearing on their alignment and then allows others to construe that the negative behaviour is scummy, but in the second, the person making the initial attack has to push the person's behaviour as though it is scummy.-I tried push GreyIce's "negative but not scummy behavior" as if it was scummy behavior
I haven't done that. My problem is not with you dismissing GreyICE's bad cases, it's with you asking him a question that I don't think that you ever intended him to answer, and saying that his behaviour rubbed you the wrong way.Kast wrote: Your claim that dismissing GreyIce's bad cases are "attacks" on GreyIce is a pretty big misrepresentation.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Kast:
I didn't ignore the question. It was the thing I mentioned that started this conversation.Kast wrote: -So, you choose to believe the question is insincere and thus ignore it. Having ignored it, you conclude that instead of ASKING HIM FOR META TO CLARIFY HIS POSITION I was instead STATING THAT HIS POSITION IS SCUMMY. If you pick and choose parts to believe and parts to ignore, then it's easy to create a BS justification like you are doing now.Zdenek wrote: This question by Kast looks like carefully disguised mudslinging.
1. I think you were using a rhetorical device for the purpose of making GreyICE seem scummy.Kast wrote: --Please clarify your problem with asking a question that you think I did not wanted him to answer.
--Please clarify your problem with players stating that something "rubs them wrong".
2. I only have a problem with it when the person later says that they think the behaviour is neutral.
Kast, I don't think that this discussion is going to lead to us catching scum. From experience I know that arguments that become technical rarely go anywhere and often occur between townies, so I would like to drop it. If there is anything else that you would like me to explain, I will.
I decided to check out the Raivann and Zoraster connection, and I found this:
This post was on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:19 pm
From Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:51 pmZoraster wrote: Raivann
Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote
Cognitive dissonance anyone?Zoraster wrote: If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.
Anyway I stopped my exercise of looking at how they could be related after this because I know which one I'd perfer to lynch.
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Vote ZorasterI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I'm currently travelling, so I don't have too much time.
Looking at your posts in context you present a case on Raivann in the first, and then in the next say that you don't get where LMP is coming from.Zoraster wrote: @Zd (and diddin sort of): How is that cognitive dissonance? Are you just reading me in iso again with no attempt to find out whether it makes sense in context? Because that second quote was in response to LMP that was in response to my first point. So I wasn't saying that my own case wasn't good. I was saying that BEFORE I made my post that there hadn't been a compelling case.
Mod and all: I will be V/LA until Wednesday.
I should still be able to check the thread, so if I am needed for something, I should be able to post, but that is not 100% clear to me at the moment.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I'm sorry for my absence. I'd hoped to get caught up yesterday, but I couldn't access the internet from the airport I was flying from. I need a day to think about things and I will post tomorrow, but in the meanwhile . . . .
I strongly doubt that Magua is Stark because of his push on diddin yesterday.
I am willing to accept that because of the flavour that LL is cleared (my own knowledge of flavour is minimal, so I really am trusting others here)
I agree with MoI that Twilight Sparkle's use of soft accusations against him is scummy.
MoI, since Zoraster's flip, what are your opinions of Nexus and Dana?
I would guess that Bunnylover isn't Stark because of diddin's attack on her yesterday.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I am still working on getting completely caught up with the game.
After some rereading:
Dana:
I see very little scum hunting in Danakillsu's posts. Early in the day, he was guilty of posting pro-town fluff:
danakillsu wrote: raise: DGB For pointing out how stupid it is to self-raise. We all get that you want to tell us you're town and you trust yourself. It doesn't even need to be stated. Now start trying to play the actual game.
I also don't think that he was being honest about his awareness of the statistics of self-raising from the last game. I also feel that he wasted a lot of time talking about self-raising and hascow's post restrictions rather than scum hunting. Additionally, there his jumping at the chance to vote for xvart based on GreyICE's incorrect reading of his posts.dana wrote: Wrong. You are not keeping anything from happening by raising yourself. If we wanted to raise somebody else, we could do so whether you were raising yourself, someone else, or no one. Your job in this game is to convince other people that certain players are town or scum, and a raise of yourself because "you trust yourself and nobody else" doesn't help anyone. Let me put it this way: Do you lynch vote exclusively to see the person you vote for lynched?
Magua
Why does the presence of more than VI make a difference?Magua wrote: Because I am leery of people who say "Policy lynching a VI D1 is the smart move" when there's more than one VI.
LL called him out this already, but I'd like to draw attention to it again. He thinks that someone is faking a post-restriction but calls it a null-tell, which I think is nonsensical.Magua wrote: $10 says Hasdgfas is faking his post restriction. It's cute, but it's also nonsensical from a setup POV. Undecided on scumminess; not enough information yet. Nulltell.
Nexus:
In his first post, he talks about hascow's post restriction, self-voting to raise, not supporting policy lynches.
Nexus GreyICE vote in 257 was fairly weak. All he says is that GreyICE is grating on him and that his argument with DGB was tedious.
There's this careful defence of diddin:Nexus wrote: Opinion on diddin: I agreed with his point on GreyICE in his first post. Not with his townread on DGB though. Disagree with his opinion on Benmage. Vote on Magua is a bit weak, really. Generally, Diddin hasn't really been posting much outside of talking about the VI/vigging debate, and answering some questions. I'm not convinced he should be the first lynch, anyhow.Ghostlin:why didn't you have a problem with Magua's 962?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I know this came after the flip, but considering Benmage's reason for being suspicious of Twilight, I wanted to point it out. I also don't really like that he felt the need to justify the lynching of a lyncher in this manner.Feysal wrote: Another day. I have little to say about how yesterday ended. I never really got why so many people found Zoraster scummier than Raivann, but after his claim it was obvious he was lying, and had to die.
Benmage, what is your read of Ghostlin?
Twilight, could you explain this:
I find the arguments by Magua, benmage and MoI against Twilight Sparkle to be the most convincing ones so far, and I agree with them. I also strongly dislike Thor's play for reasons that have been pointed out by others (not reading the thread, not scum hunting), soTwilight wrote: Beyond that, I suspect to find at least one scum in kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin.
Vote Twilight Sparkle
Nominate ThorI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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DGB, would you explain why you think that only townies were on the Raivann wagon?
Ghostlin, I know MoI asked this already, but I don't think you answered: in reference to nominating Raivann, what did you mean by
Magua, I would like you to answer the question I directed to you in post 1049.Ghostlin wrote: if she's town, then maybe we can get something out of the deal that's not a bunch of sheep votes.
Ghostlin, same thing.
I asked because I wanted to see if you were also suggesting that there is a connection between these players. Your phrasing of: I expect to find one scum in these four, when there is no connection between the players bothers me. It feels like you cared more about making a post that sounded as though you were scum hunting hard, rather than one that properly conveyed what you wanted to say.Twilight Sparkle wrote: Just saying that they're my second-tier scumreads.
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Second tier is kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin. Those are players without too much content/hard to read/gut pings. I'm not willing to call "you're scum" on any of them, but I expect that at least one of the four is going to end up scum and I'm keeping an alert eye as to which one.
Please explain this sentence.DTM wrote: The problem comes from the fact that Stark-scum are more likely to turn on the 3rd party wagon for easier lynches then town.
There is also this,DTM wrote: 1. Ghost: Nvm I see you put a BL case up.
The BL case is good. The key arguments that I like are:
a. The has vote. I need to look at that closer to verify but that's pretty damning.
b. Name cop slip (?).
c. Vote fails.DTM wrote: If the earlier posts are like this, then I change my Ghost read to a town read rather then initially seen as scummy.
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6. I dislike Xvart because he attacks both Ghostlin and BL, but didn't take time to look at the full Ghostlin and BL interactions. This post is awful and makes me think that both addressed players are town while Xvart isn't really scum hunting. Xvart, considering that Ghostlin is attacking BL do you regard one of them to be scum or both?
You dislike Xvart for attacking both Ghostlin and BL, but you think that the BL case is good and you vote Ghostlin.DTM wrote: Vote Ghostlin,I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Ghostlin, I understand that there are plenty of examples of Raivann sheeping. What I wanted explained was why you felt that nominating Raivann would change his play?
Twilight Sparkle wrote: Zdenek
Gets major points for pointing out the dindin-bunnylover connection in his ISO 12.
Overall, I'm getting a decent town-read on him.
Cognitive dissonance, hydra-schizophrenia, or softly attacking me as being "most likely scum on the wagon" while having a decent town-read on me. You also change your read of Nexus. Magua's also pointed these things out. I feel that you are adopting convenient reads rather than ones you actually believe in.Twilight Sparkle wrote: For the record, the most likely scum on my wagon is Zdenek (will explain more in another post)
Trying to undermine someone who most people are perceiving as almost confirmed town is scummy.TS wrote: Locke is pretty much confirmed town, although he could be a serial killer.
Why would Kast cease to be scummy if there is more than one scum team?TS wrote: Stray thought as I leave: Kast has been really lurky as well but hasn't been mentioned by anyone. If there is only one scum team he is likely a member.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Regarding Twilight Sparkle suggesting that LL is a serial killer: My knowledge of site meta isn't good enough, so I'd like to ask others (and especially Twilight Sparkle) about this: what do you think are the chances that the mods would put a serial killer in the game and a lyncher who's goal is to lynch the SK?
I don't think that he's scum.TS wrote: Your extremely careful language on this ("who most people are percieving?") needs some elaboration. What do you think about LL?
I think this is a wifom argument and that it is just as likely that Kast isn't being pressured because he's declared V/LA, rather than active lurking (for instance).TS wrote: If kast was scum, but there was a second scumteam, the second scumteam would probably be taking at least some measure to groom his mislynch. The tell that "this lurker is getting a free pass - it seems like there is a significant group of players not interesting in pursuing his lynch" only works with ONE such group. With two, one scumgroup might not want to pressure kast, but the one without him would just see him as another easy-shot townie.
Also, do you only feel that Kast is scum because he's not being attacked for being V/LA?
So, Kast has been V/LA, and you suggest that could be scum because he's not being attacked, and then you seem to suggest that being away from the game is a reasonable defence.TS wrote: Basically I'm saying there is a difference between active lurking and being completely away from the game. A big difference.
I don't feel the need to repeat things that have already been said. If you want clarification about something, ask.TS wrote: No elaboration that he even knows what soft accusations MoI is referring.
My question about this:TS wrote: Asks us an obvious question before more sheeping language to latch onto MoI. I have no clue if he even understands the case MoI is presenting on us at this point or what. He is just latching onto the reasoning with what feel very much like, empty words.
was not obvious. There is a difference between posting a list of people who you think might be scum, and saying that you think there is at least one scum in a list of people. To me the latter suggests that you think there is a connection between the people and that as the players flip town, your confidence that one of the remaining players in the list is scum increases disproportionately compared to that of the other players.Beyond that, I suspect to find at least one scum in kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin.
Funny, I missed it. What was the inconsistency?Feysal wrote: Yes, I saw the inconsistency regarding Zdenek from Twilight Sparkle
"Noting" that I am mirroring MoI for using standard terminology is mudflinging.TS wrote: Also noting once again the use of the phrase “softly attacking” more MoI mirroring.
Here are some other reasons I think Twilight Sparkle is scum (as requested by Twilight Sparkle):
I agree with much of what MoI, Benmage and Magua have said, and I am not going to repeat their cases in their entirety, but there will inevitably be significant overlap.
First of all, I see that there is an inconsistency in how TS wants to treat almost confirmed town players: hascow and LL.
With Hascow, Twilight was willing to call him confirmed town immediately.
Now that there is good evidence that we have two scum-teams, what do you think of hascow? Still confirmed town?TS wrote: I thought he was almost certaintly fakeclaiming, but after his shot actually went through, I'm calling him confirmed town.
On the other hand, with LL, TS insists being careful.
So, why the careful attitude with LL, but the cavalier one with hascow?TS wrote: Point out that someone being treated as confirmed town isn't actually confirmed town - and specifically including the criterion to look for that might disprove a LL confirmation - is what we in the business call really fucking important.
In the first paragraph, TS suggests that there we should assume that there is just one scum team, but in the second paragraph, TS argues that a scum flip of either Thor or Raivann would imply that the other is town, which is an argument that requires there be only one scum team.TS wrote: There's no rule saying that all of your scumreads have to be on a scumteam together. It's sloppy to clear people as town based off of flips that haven't happened yet.
We think Thor has a very large chance of flipping scum, we think Raivann has a fairly large chance of flipping scum, and a scumflip on one virtually confirms the other as town. There's no contradiction here.
There is also a conflict in how Twilight views we should treat new players.
In that post, Twilight, subtly attacks MoI ("rang a small bell for me") for attacking an easy target.TS wrote: @MagnaofIllusion: I've been meaning to ask you about something. How come you attacked GreyICE for accusing you of IIoA early on D1, but never responded to this post of mine?
It rang a small bell for me at the time when you attacked an easier target with a more controversial playstyle but left me alone. Maybe it's because despite GreyICE's rhetorical skills sucking, he rang as so genuinely town from our POV, so I disliked you hammering to him to death.
Here, Twilight explains attacking Shadow and ASOIAF, with the hope of getting reactions out of them.TS wrote: Not quite argumentative. It wasn't a true argument, it was just random trolling, and I'm of the mindset (apparently the only one) that scum are more primed to be unhelpful to the town and thus more likely to troll.
I over-justified it because if I was right lots of pressure out of nowhere would make shadow-scum slip.
As far as lack of scum hunting goes. Twilight has been guilty of wasting time trying to figure out hascow's post restriction, arguing about policy lynching, talking about Hascow's post restriction, posting pictures, appeals to emotion about the state of the hydra.TS wrote: Our original vote on ASOIAF was in part to get a reaction out of a player who'd probably be easy to read under pressure.
Here Twilight wastes time talking about the governor ability, but I don't think it was ever followed up on. That makes me feel like this was a purely rhetorical discussion designed to make it seem like they were being active.
There was this fluffy waste of time argument with MoI.TS wrote: I'm going to ask something a bit strange. Do people think that a one-shot governor would be useful for town? Say, on a town read in LYLO who looks lynchable but whom you're sooooo sure was town (which is a double-edged sword, if you're wrong or it )?
Right now, I think the role would mainly have a scum benefit, and even then, only when played at the right time. I'm asking because we're discussing the best use of the role in the Hydra QT. We'll explain more, later.
I'm also not too fond of Twilight's rationale for it's early votes.TS wrote: That condescending attitude helps no one. Yes, this is a game about reading, but that doesn't mean that it's equally easy, enjoyable, or useful to give us giant walls. If I were to write all of my posts in Pig Latin, it is obvious I could not take recourse in the "this is a written game" defense; but oftentimes slogging through a large wall is equally as annoying as deciphering Pig Latin.
There was the early vote on Shadow for the following reasons:
TS wrote: you're scummy for Raising without voting and your only justification for self-raising being "a concise way to piss off zoraster."
Which is a reason that has already been pointed out as far from convincing.TS wrote: There's no motivation for either faction. But someone who's scum is more likely to be primed to troll. Especially since this is Shadow's first large game on mafiascum. Scum tend to like to show false bravado, in my experience.
Considering my view of Thor, I can't fault Twilight for voting Song. However
the rationale for the vote is poor since Benmage had said quite a bit more, andTS wrote: You don't know what a VI means, so what exactly did you like about the posts of someone most just recommending we policy lynch them? Rav points this out in 209; I am similarly confused.
Vote: A Song of Ice and Fire
it had already been pointed out by Raivann.
I'll comment on the following since Twilight suggested that I didn't understand this argument above.
Magna replies by saying that he has town read on Benmage, but that he's also seen Benmage fake a guilty result on a town player, which he wasn't happy with. To this TS responds with:Twilight Sparkle wrote:MoI:
Explain how this:
Gels with this:MagnaofIllusion Post 281 wrote:
As long as your A-game doesn’t involve faking a guilty on someone who ends up Lannister aligned I’m happy to hear this.Benmage wrote:Despite rolling town. I've been looking forward to this game way too much to not give it my A-game.MagnaofIllusion Post 241 wrote:Unraise MoI
Raise Benmage
I’m willing to do this based on past experiences with you Ben. Don’t disappoint me.
Magna provides the links, and criticizes Twilight's accusation that he was taking a snipe at Benmage as a VI.TS wrote: To me, it read like you were taking a snipe at him as a VI and yet you had raised him after your early game rant. Your explanation tells me I read that wrong, but I am still paranoid. Can I get some games you were in with Benmage as a "Pro-Town force"?
To me, Twilight's accusation reads as an attempt to drive wedge between Benmage and MoI who's co-operation could be strongly pro-town.
TS doesn't read the requested links, and continues to criticize MoI raising Benmage.TS wrote:
The snipe I am talking about is what I originally quoted here. It read like a dig at him because it was a response you gave to ben that wasn't actually needed. Ben was just talking about bringing his A game and you brought up some fail on his part as if he needed a reminder. I don't understand why you would do that unless it was you trying to discredit him. But I have noticed that your playstyle has changed from when we first played in that you like to throw out a lot of these quips at people that makes you sound very judgmental. I'm guessing it is a null tell now, but I don't like it much.MoI wrote: Please point to the exact quote where you think I was swiping at Benmage as a VI. I’d really like to know where you saw that because that’s about as far removed from what I’ve said about Ben as you can get.
Combine all that with the fact I remembered you were raising benmage despite him not playing up to your standards recently and I saw a contradiction.
Actually as I type this out, I am getting more and more confused as to why you would raise Ben. He doesn't seem like your kind of player. His style is either hit or miss from my experience and as already demonstrated, you look down on players who “miss”. I'm gonna check out these links you have provided, but out of everyone in the game... I'm having a hard time swallowing you raising Benmage. Gut says you did it to either get him on your good side or to go with the flow. Neither is a good thing
Or it's a townie with a static read from one day to the next. I don't see how a Mikujin town flip could cast doubt on Dana, and view this as a poor attack on Dana.TS wrote: "I had this read yesterday" doesn't sit at all well with me. Scum are oftentimes over-focused on consistency over anything else, and that seems awfully much like "hey guys, look, I didn't change my mind." A mijukin townflip casts a serious shadow on dana.
I can't help but pointing out the irony of TS attacking me for being a lurker/background player after this:
Also, your entire case on me is based on the fact that I agree with others about you, which is not a scum tell.TS wrote: I love it when someone who has gone under the radar mysteriously pops out of the woodworks to defend their lack of contribution when someone mentions their name.
...
...
What are you all looking at me for? *whistles innocently*
I don't have time to reread the arguments between Feysal and LMP at the moment, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on that issue at the moment.
Mod and all, I will be V/LA until Sunday. I apologize for these frequent absences, but I've been travelling a lot these past three weeks. My schedule calms down after this.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I'm back, and will start catching up. One of my flights was delayed by eight hours, do I have less time now than I'd hoped. I'm just going to address some of the points Twilight Sparkle raised against me earlier.
Just because you say something, doesn't make it true. I have never sidestepped on this issue. Here is what I've said about LL:TS wrote: Point One: Inconsistency re: LL, but more importantly, his sidestepping around whether he could consider LL to be third party.
Zdenek wrote: I am willing to accept that because of the flavour that LL is cleared (my own knowledge of flavour is minimal, so I really am trusting others here)
It's precisely because my read on Locke is due to other's knowledge of the flavour that I saidZdenek wrote: I don't think that he's scum.
All of TS's point one is poor logic and rhetoric.Zdenek wrote: Trying to undermine someone who most people are perceiving as almost confirmed town is scummy.
TS, why did you wait to share your argument that LL could be a serial killer in your case against me rather than arguing with people who think that LL is confirmed town?
TS wrote: Point Two: Zdenek’s inconsistency on MoI’s interactions with me
I did not say that my read on Benmage had weakened.TS wrote: Exhibit C: Post 346, Zdenek says his read of Benmage has weakened, and raises Sparkle.
Zdenek never mentions MagnaofIllusion or Twilight Sparkle afterward beyond moving his raise to Benmage for "liking his observation" (what observation?).
The observation of Benmage that I liked was:
Benmage wrote: Although pending a further look. I'm pretty confident Sparkle is scum... Why haven't they requested the governor? They gonna throw it away? Sotty and hito are bad players ?!?!?!??!?! Baloney.... I'd want to give it to them, because it should be a doom sentence.
Since you are such a fan of post numbers, I'd raised you in post 346.TS wrote: Why didn’t you have a problem with our breaking up Magna’s and Benmage’s protown union BEFORE you’d raised us? Why didn’t you dislike our "soft accusations" of Magna before then?
This implies that his claim to have suspected us for softly attacking Magna and for interrupting the MoI-Benmage lovefest were disingenuous.
This
wasn't until post 460. Asking MoI how him raising Benmage and being disappointed with him in the past gel was a reasonable question, and I agreed with the criticism of MoI for bringing up the statistical analysis of self-raising from the last game.TS wrote: To me, it read like you were taking a snipe at him as a VI and yet you had raised him after your early game rant
So your final claim is false.
What we see in point two is TS misrepresenting the content of my posts and the order of posts in the thread.
I'll answer your questions about this later.
There is no inconsistency; I was attacking your logic.TS wrote: Point Five: Inconsistency regarding DanakillsuI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I am currently working on getting caught up. I should finish tomorrow.
Benmage, what is an IDI?
I am inclined to agree with Benmage (or at least with what he was suggesing) that we didn't learn too much from LMP's revelation that he was responsible for CK3's death.
I have found that scum are inclined to make bold assertions with little reason behind them, so I think there is something of value in asking people about the claims they are making. Also, asking a player about why they are being inconsistent and pointing out inconsistencies is not "useless, fake-scum hunting."TS wrote: (In my somewhat biased opinion, this is a pure scum post--picking out a couple of superficial details that have no relevance to anyone’s alignment, and then failing to reach a conclusion on them--but moving on.)
...
Considering Zdenek’s only other comment on Magua had to do with Cow’s post restriction, this is a useless fake-scumhunting question. Even if Zdenek singled out Ghostlin because Ghostlin agreed with Magua’s post on Raivann...was that the most noteworthy thing to mention in his only catch-up post?
I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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No I haven't.Bunnylover wrote: Zdenek has responded to every one of TS post saying that is has a negative effect or its just plain scummy. Zdenek been tunneling TS.
Since this was the one point of TS argument that Kast agreed with, I'd like to point out the difference in my discussion of cow's post restriction and Twilight's. I talk about it for one sentence, whereas TS talks about it over several posts: ISO 10, 11, 12. At the moment I have to admit that it's not as bad as I thought, since it all took place on a single day when TS was active.Kast wrote: Point 4: Your catch of Zdenek espousing the merits of discussing cow's post restriction and also attacking you for doing the same is a relevant point
I would like to hear Feysal's answer to Setael in post 1470. It's pretty much an obvious contradiction concerning whatever he was planning to claim.
To address TS's 1472:
You didn't just leave out a sentence, you completely misinterpreted my post.TS wrote:
I left out a sentence. Zdenek asks Ghostlin why he doesn’t “have a problem" with Magua‘s 926. Aside from that question being pure fluff (Magua’s 926 wasn’t particularly noteworthy) and his singling out of Ghostlin rather WTFTS wrote: In other words...he asks Ghostlin why he agrees with every point of Magua’s in 926?
...
He doesn’t exactly sheep Magua, but those opinions are fairly similar to those espoused in 926. And then asks Ghostlin why he didn’t have a problem with that post.
Zdenek, explanation, please.
Why is my singling out of Ghostlin "rather WTF"? Had someone else at that point attacked me for using the interactions between players to try to determine their alignments, but not commented on Magua? For some reason Ghostlin ignored Magua's post, and I find this scummy because scum doesn't need to determine the alignments of players, and so they might not read everyone as carefully as they might read others. The fact that you are pressing this as a point against me is bizarre.
Regarding LL: I missed that quote of yours about him being a dog in his service. However, I believe that you still haven't answered my question:Zdenek wrote: what do you think are the chances that the mods would put a serial killer in the game and a lyncher who's goal is to lynch the SK?
I felt that Magna's and Benmage's cooperation could be very pro-town and I viewed that post as an attempt to to drive the two of them apart.TS wrote: Just one thing. Zdenek, are you saying that when you saw Sotty’s post attacking MoI’s raise, you actually thought for yourself, “Gee, Sotty is making MoI look bad with soft attacks"? That was your personal thought process?
I don't think that Dana being wrong about Mikujin would reflect particularly negatively on him. There were reasons to vote Mikujin and Dana wasn't the only vote on him that day.TS wrote: Okaaaaay...so, your stance on danakillsu is: he’s not scumhunting, but if the person he tunneled on day one (when he “wasn’t scumhunting") flips town, you can’t see how that would reflect negatively on dana? Have I got that straight?
My wiki is almost up to date. The only game that isn't on there is this one and some of the in progress games haven't been moved to completed.TS wrote: I’ve never played with Zdenek before. Do you have town and scum meta on him, for comparison’s sake?
You have to completely misinterpret my posts for the premises of your argument to be correct.TS wrote: For example, our first point is not just "inconsistency." It is that Zdenek is calling us scummy for holding an opinion on Locke that he, logically, must hold.
TS, do you think that there is a town-reason to fake a post-restriction?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I've read the wiki, but based on that and people's opinions, it seems inconclusive whether Littlefinger could be Lannister or not. I don't have an objection to his choice to investigate Kast: one of the uses for his role that I can think of is the potential to verify people's claims later on and I could see someone (fake-)claiming to have investigated Kast night one. However, the claim is still one that would be easy to fake. Based on what I've read, I agree with others that it would make little sense for the mods to provide this role as a fake-claim, so I am inclined to believe that it is actually his role. I am not sure of his alignment because I can see the value in telling the truth about your role, regardless of alignment, if it is "Lannister enough," to avoid being caught by a flavour cop later (in case there is one in the game). I'll be willing to vote Feysal, if no more support for a TS lynch is forthcoming.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I agree with this part of the case on Feysal. I think that it is quite possible that he was trying to distance himself from diddin; he called diddin scum a few times and demonstrated a reluctance to vote for him. Also, I think the fact that he mentioned Xtoxm's "good idea" is a bit strange, and I can see a scum trying to help their lurking buddy out by pointing out his contributions.LynchMePls wrote:Zdenek,
Please comment specifically on the connections Feysal has to diddin and Xtoxm. What is your take on that, disregarding the claim for now.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Kast, I'll claim my name, I don't see a pro-town reason to claim my ability now.Kast wrote: Hi all,
I'm about 85% convinced Zdenek is scum. I'd like to hear him claim before we enter the limited discussion phase. I have one pending question to the mod; it's unlikely to affect evaluation of Zdenek's claim.
@Magua/Zdenek-
You both explicitly stated you'd switch to Feysal to prevent a No Lynch, but didn't follow through on your promise (there may be a couple others I'm missing). Explain.
I'm Tywin Lannister.
I would have hammered Feysal had it been necessary to prevent a no lynch, but it wasn't, so I didn't vote for him.
The case on Raivann based on his meta seems reasonable to me.
Thor has not answered my questions about the "logic loops" that he's claimed that I've made, and yesterday he said that he thought I was town and voted me in hopes of preventing a Feysal lynch. Also,
Thor wrote:Kast wrote: Hi all,
I'm about 85% convinced Zdenek is scum.
Really? Now? Meh.
You say meh to someone who thinks that I am scum, which appears to agree with your feelings, and then you vote for me, providing no reason, when yesterday you thought I was town?Thor wrote: As much as it pains me to side with Kast, I'll clarify that I don't like his logic, but I am leaning for a Zdenek lynch today.
Vote ThorI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.
That is bs. I was pretty sure why you found me suspicious (because I am aware of my role) and that in no way implies that I should automatically vote you.Kast wrote: Btw-
Thor has a good point. The town response to someone with a guilty on you is to call them out and vote them for it; more so if the person with the guilty is one of your scum suspects. Zdenek's "I'm going to try deflecting attention to someone else" smacks of caught scum trying to avoid an inevitable lynch.
Thor, answer my question, so that I know that you weren't just arbitrarily accusing me of things yesterday.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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a.) Chesskid didn't claim Tywin Lannister, he just claimed that his character had also been Hand of the King.Twilight Sparkle wrote:
a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.
b.) why did you wait on claiming this
c.)
b.) In hopes that I could havedrawn a night kill after claiming Tywin Lannister.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Then why would I have been pushing for his lynch?TS-hito wrote: Softclaiming a Lannister Hand for A Storm of Swords is softclaiming Tywin or Tyrion. If you really were Tywin, and you KNEW of Tyrion's existance, you'd know chess was Tyrion.
I claimed to be Tywin before full claiming.TS-hito wrote: So...you didn't claim...to try to draw a night kill...after claiming?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Thor, I would like it if you could point out the logical loops that you've said I was making, so that I can see if you were just making up a reason to vote for me yesterday or not.
I only just claimed Tywin. I was hoping to drawn a nk after that. I don't really see myself as a target for night kills under usual circumstances.Kast wrote:
If the claim is true, then you were night immune all of D2. However, instead of acting in a manner to draw NKs, you buddied all the active/town-leader players. Behavior doesn't really match with the claim.Zdenek wrote:b.) In hopes that I could havedrawn a night kill after claiming Tywin Lannister.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Here is flavour:hascow wrote: *points to tongue*
*rubs belly*
The quote in italics is "Nothing is won so long as we have enemies in the field." You are Tywin Lannister, Lannister Aligned, leader of the House Lannister and one of the most influential men in the Westeros. You will persevere until all your enemies are vanquished. Remember a Lannister always pays his debts.
Chesskid was being erratic and I didn't know if he was soft-claiming or just making something up, and on day one I didn't feel like revealing myself to find out.pops wrote: It's strange that Zdenek didn't interact with chesskid at all.
. . .
Zdenek didn't even nameclaim D2. There was no drawback to him nameclaiming day 2, at all.
On Day Two, I was V/LA a lot and when I got back I was under pressure from TS. I didn't think that claiming anything was going to do me any good.
I just want everyone to be clear on that.Thor wrote: Let's call it a made up reason, and see where you go from there. Fire away.
1) My role PM says modified NK immune.Magua wrote: Zdenek, I understand your role claim so far, but if you could clarify a few points for me:
1) Is your role "Modified Kill Immune"?
2) Is there anything else about your role to claim, or is that it?
2) There is nothing else about my role to claim.
The way that I phrased it has nothing to do with whether or not CK was dead already or not.Setael wrote: @Zdenek - why didn't you say this as "I became nk immune when chesskid died" or something to that effect? Why did you state it as if it hadn't happened yet.
At least now it is completely clear that you haven't been paying attention to the thread at all.Dana wrote: The main thing I noticed was his extensive case on Bunnylover, his secondary scumread, and his lack of a case on Feysal.
I'm going to have to find a better place for my vote than on Thor.
Unvote
I only said that I was trying to draw an NK after name claiming Tywin.pops wrote: Read the flipping thread. He's lying and I've said as much. He claimed to be a bulletproof that's trying to draw NKs, but day 2 he didn't try to draw NKs.
I think that Locke is suggesting that Shadow's post indicates that he knew the alignments of me and Chesskid or that the idea of me being untouchable after claiming BP yesterday is foolish.
No, it doesn't. Saying that someone would be untouchable, and saying that they should have claimed a power are not the same things.Shadow wrote: Point B also goes along with "why didn't you play out loud/obvtown/hint power d2 once you knew you were unkillable, or outright claim power."
Humour me and tell me which parts you agree with.Bunnylover wrote: I still agree with Twilight Sparkle case on Zdenek.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Bunnylover wrote:@Zdenek: I already answered that, do you want me to re answer it?
So your answer is that you agree with all of it?Bl wrote: I could go through TS entire case and pick each point that I like, but basically I would be copying and pasting their case.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I think there is a good case for Nexus being scum, I think it's essentially covered in Magua's post (except I don't think he mentioned the fact that Nexus said that diddin would be a bad day one lynch, which could have been one scum buddy softly protecting another), but my vote can only be in one place.Thor665 wrote: @Zdenek - nothing for Nexus though?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I assume that the modification concerns how I become NK immune.DGB wrote: So what does modified mean? Modified with a nightkill?
I really don't understand why the possibility for me to guess who Chesskid was claiming to be day one is such a big deal.
TS, regarding the first two quotes. In the first you say that MoI's "suspicions have a logical townie-like progression," and that his reasoning for his suspicion "reads as genuine." Then in the second post you say that you have reservations about him "the size of a small continent" and that each of his posts "raises yet another alarm bell." If a player about whom I felt like that was suspicious of me, I would not be alright with that player's vote or think that their suspicion reads as genuine, and I don't really see how it is possible. Their suspicion itself would be raising alarm bells. Frankly, the fact that you are asking me about this seems scummy because it seems so clear to me that I feel you are feigning incomprehension.
You were never fighting for your lives. Your wagon never grew beyond L-5 and if I recall correctly, there was no one who wasn't on it who indicated that they would be willing to vote for you. I will keep pointing out the things that you do that I think are scummy in the hopes that other people will notice, but there is absolutely no reason for me to sit my vote on you, when I can make it useful elsewhere.TS wrote: Were we playing the same game yesterday? There were times we were fighting for our lives and for a nice chunk of the day we were the leading vote getter. I'd say our lynch was very possible yesterday, not at all unlikely as you want to claim. Also, if we're your top scum read you should keep pushing us. This whole “they won't be lynched” just smells like crap to me and is a really weak sauce argument when you look at how yesterday went. This is also contrary to your point tying us to MoI. So, what gives?
After a little searching I guessed that Chesskid would be Tyrion, unless he was just bs'ing. I figured that since he is a "Lannister" that he'd be town aligned. Chesskid was never in danger of being lynched and I felt that his day one play was townish. Again, I am really not sure why people are focussing on this fact. I didn't see any reason to out myself or Chesskid's names or roles on Day one.Benmage wrote: And that didn't rattle your brain with who could it be?? Thinking Tyrion a non town entity?
Since Andrius will be governed,
Unvote
With Nexus role-bloking Raivann and the Stark kill being blocked night one:
Vote RaivannI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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What is the point in voting for someone who's lynch Benmage will govern?Andrius wrote: Zdenek's last series of votes can be translated as such:
"Andy is town and gaining popularity so I need to unvote, and vote the easy wagon."
So I go to wiki for the books look up past Hands of the King, and I determine that Chesskid is either claiming to be Tyrion or Harys Swyft, to me they both seem like they could be Lannister aligned, and what do I do with this information?Andrius wrote:
Because its something you would have done as town.Zdenek wrote:I really don't understand why the possibility for me to guess who Chesskid was claiming to be day one is such a big deal.
I agree with DGB that Setael is scummy for reasons in addition to Mikujin's lack of activity and his vote on DGB, which reads like he's appeasing the town.
Here Setael says that she doesn't understand the case on Twilight, but goes on to excuse Twilight for their low activity, which actually suggests that she did understand the suspicion on Twilight and chose to defend them.Set wrote: I don't see the suspicion on Twilight. I disagree with what MoI said about the ISO posts not containing scumhunting. I can see the V/LA of 2 of the heads being the reason for the low activity D1 (especially if they're wanting to all weigh in before posting - I for one would find it annoying if they were constantly coming in and contradicting themselves because they didn't all agree with what was posted in the first place.)
I really hate these sorts of attacks; they are lazy and draw attention to a player for something that isn't really scummy.Setael wrote: Where's nexus? He's plenty active in the game he's nodding that I'm in.
Maybe you already answered it, but what was the thing in his post that made you want to delay his lynch?Set wrote: I haven't changed my mind. He's still my #1 scum read, but something I read in his post made me decide to put him in my pocket until tomorrow.
A pointless rhetorical question.Setael wrote: LMP, are you claiming SK?
Additionally, I feel that her attack on Bunnylover is poorly reasoned. A great deal of it is based on Bunnylover "playing the VI card" and while I agree that is true, I do not feel that the case actually represents an attempt to determine what Bunnylover's motivations have been, but is just an attempt to exaggerate certain characteristics of Bunnylover's that could be interpreted as scummy.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Based on DGB's post, I'm going to assume that we are considering Thor to be the scummiest, and assuming that we are going with Magua's plan to deal with the competition, I won't be voting him under the assumption that he'll be chosen as one of the champions.
You're assuming no vanilla scum?Benmage wrote: Actually Dana is very likely town due to Kasts results.
I'm operating under the assumption that the real SK decided to no kill last night, and would like to have another chance to be role-blocked.
Vote SetaelI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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[quote="Pops']
The REAL sk is supposed to beat down the PR stuffed mafia AND kill bulletproof "townie" zdenek in 2 man endgame.
HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL
How does no killing as scum when you're down 234234 member make ANY SENSE AT ALL.
[/quote]
Perhaps it's not an SK, but another scum team that we haven't had any flips from yet, or perhaps there are other roles that successfully stopped the other kill, but whatever it is, since we have a role-blocker, there is no reason not to give this one more night.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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He didn't arrive at his conclusion through town reads.popsofctown wrote:So you don't disagree with any of his various town reads that narrow you down to being scum, you agree with those, you just want the conclusion that you're scum to be ignored at the end.
If you want to know the specific parts of it that I am not in agreement with they would be the assumption that Starks don't have any vanilla goons and that Magna wasn't bussing TS.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I'm not saying that the assumption the Starks have a goon is superior to the one that they don't, but just that I don't think that it is a good assumption to use to clear someone. However, I've decided that Dana is cleared, see below.popsofctown wrote:We're using different terminology, I call anything that brings you to believe that a certain person is probtown as "townread".
I feel like I shouldn't have had to prompt you to hear what you didn't agree with. Or prompt you again to explain why you think your assumptions are superior to Magua's in those two cases. Or prompt you to give a decent defense since you're on the chopping block.
I've already explained what I think of Magna's push against TS: TS is a hydra of skilled players that will be naturally hard to lynch, so attacking them is fairly safe.
As far as me being Stark goes: I was suspicious of Diddin, Magna and Setael fairly early on. I admit that my read of Magna changed, but I really thought that his co-operation with benmage was pro-town. I can't stop you if you want to attribute this to bussing or distancing.
Finally because of Nexus' presumably role-blocking me and their being two kills the night he died, I can't be the SK. I am guessing that the night before there was overkill on Kast, which makes sense. Although, now as I think about it, since Setael was presumably investigation immune, this line of reasoning clears Dana.
The bottom line is that I can't be SK, so on the off chance that two Starks remain, I would be a bad lynch.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I think Nexus would have blocked me again, since he had a good reason to suspect that it would work again, since it had apparently worked the night before, and it makes sense for him to keep doing what was expected of him to reduce the confusion now.LL wrote: As for the N4 kill, can anyone tell me why they think Nexus blocked Zdenek instead of the super obv-scum (and probably immune to night actions) Setael?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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LL is lazy scum for suggesting pro-town things, but not doing them.LL wrote: Before we do anything, I think we should do a complete list of every role, both flipped and claimed, and make sure we consider it carefully. I remember several people in the dead thread pointing out that Macavitar's fakeclaim made no sense alongside the Kingsguard mechanic in ACoK, but no-one in-thread bothered to look back and fully consider the implications.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Responding to a prod.
I don't think that we should discount the possibility that Magua is a Stark. The xvart kill only makes sense if the Starks knew that xvart was a power role. Diddin was very scummy day one, so I think that Magua could be a Stark watcher, who watched xvart kill diddin day one, and then decided to claim the kill for himself after killing xvart N2.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Andrius wrote:ZDENEK
Besides for your shit play, that Tywin Lannister claim was bollocks. In order for you to become bulletproof when Tyrion dies, the mods would therein confirm that Tyrion is, in fact, in the game and as town. Yet you argue that you're too dumb (or whatever) to realize that the only other Lannister that was ever a Hand of the King in the series is Tywin and Tyrion. Oh, that kind of rules it out. And you obviously didn't treat chesskid like confirmed town. Town would take the initiative. You had none. You flipped scum. No surprises
The only thing that I regret about the claim is not saying that it made me a 1 or 2 shot bulletproof; it was good enough that my lynch was governed later.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Andrius wrote:
Zdenek, the number of bullets you can withstand is NOT the issue. The bulletproof thing was enough; but the fact you should have gotten a confirmed town guy read, and you didn't.
Failure to trust a confirmed town = FAILSCUM.
If CK3 had ever been in danger of being lynched, I'd see your point, but he wasn't.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.
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