Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Amrun]

Hi, I'm the new replacement. Give me some time to read the backlogs.

[Amrun]

I just finished a full read, and as usual when I replace into a game in this situation, I somehow end up replacing the scummiest character that isn't actually scum and replaced out because they couldn't take the heat...

Defense of myself:

My predecessor, PoisonIvy, made a lot of mistakes. All I can say is that she is most likely not from US or Russia, and therefore her country was probably not involved heavily in the Cold War. To me, it seems like it would be quite easy to make a mistake after skimming the role PM, since I have seen the same role PM, Anyone reading it carefully shouldn't have made that mistake, but I don't think she is a native English speaker (and therefore, reader) and probably has little knowledge of the Cold War. Others have pointed out why her "slip up" is probably just a mistake and I'm just re-affirming that.

And for the record, she is definitely not Godfather. Hahahaha ... I laughed sadly when I saw her begging for investigations.


Now, for my reads on other people:

Town reads:
Beast of the Sea
RedCoyote
LlamaFluff

^^ Top two outlined solid cases in a way that really came off as town to me. LF, on the other hand, shut down discussion in a strange way, but he shut down discussion on PI, and as I KNOW "I" am town, there is no possible scumtell in this for me. Scum simply would not do that.

Scumreads:
Fuzzman (1 post with a weird flavorclaim? Really?)
ThAd (less for the weakish case against him and more for his strange reactions to pressure)
jmj (very slight -- would not vote for him at this point, but his reactions to pressure are super rage, which is odd)
GW (He seems to be delighting in a blatant refusal to scumhunt.)


I'm also getting slight towns off of DP (meta, but I don't really trust meta) and Feysal (good case against Furcolow).

I'm null on Furcolow for several reasons. As others have pointed out, Furc's discussion of daytalk reads as a towntell... But as Feysal outlined nicely, which I was thankful for since now I don't have to do it myself, Furcolow contradicts himself CONSTANTLY and makes tons of anti-town plays. He's either scum or just a bad player... but at this precise moment I'm leaning towards bad player. This may be swayed by future Furc actions.

I also have a null on gonnano. Some of his posts seem a bit scummy (not trusting his own reads seems to me to be giving himself an excuse for a mislynch), but some of his posts do not. In particular, early on, a lot of people were pointing to his interaction with PI being scummy, and while I agree that gonanno looks scummy if PI were scum, I know PI is NOT scum. So, I'm on the fence about gonnano but leaning town since I have the advantage of knowing that I am not, in fact, scum. Also I think he makes a good point about Lowell, but not strong enough. I'd like to see Lowell defend himself, though.



VOTE: Fuzzman

I'd like to see some pressure on him to prompt him into posting so we can get a more solid read on him.


However, I'm interested in seeing ThAd flip the most, since it could give some scum leads. jmj flip would also be informative, but I'd like to give him a chance to redeem himself. GW flip I would also like to see, but he's been so obtuse I think we'd gain the least amount of information from his flip thus far.

[Amrun]

Very Interesting.

All I can say is that she is most likely not from US or Russia, and therefore her country was probably not involved heavily in the Cold War.

So you are claiming 3rd party? Do you win when all threats to peace are eliminated, or do you have another win condition?

Whoa, whoa. I was talking about in real life. I'm saying her posting makes me think she's not American or Russian because of syntax and language tics.

Why not? You have heard of buddying before, right?

Considering I've spent basically the whole game focusing on you, and PoisonIvy was voting for me before you replaced and named me as #1 scum read, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned me. Any thoughts?

I have heard of buddying, but why on earth would scum townbuddy to someone who is the top candidate for lynching? But in actuality, I added LF to the townreads list after I finished the rest of the post and of the three, my townread on him is weakest. To me, it is RC, BoS, LF, in that order, but any of those reads could shift. LF, though, is a distant third compared to the other two.

As for you, you're tunneling hard. HARD. You're tunneling so hard that you're giving me slight-town at the moment, but I'm getting into WIFOM in my own head about it, which is why I didn't comment before. I'm still making up my mind.

Since I know I'm town, I know you're pushing a townie lynch so hard that your head is about to pop off. But since it's so obvious, are you just stuck in a rut and incapable of paying attention to other players, some of whom are a lot scummier than PI, in my opinion?

Either way, I think it's a bad play and tunneling always annoys me because it's so short-sighted. However, is it a bad town play or a bad scum play?

I'm not sure, but I'm glad you pointed out that "my" vote is still on you, because I totally forgot.


UNVOTE: XScorpion

VOTE: Fuzzman


p-edit: Yes, that's what I was saying. My point was that someone with an infirm grasp of English from neither country would be more likely to make the kind of misread that she made about Soviets v. US, especially given the actual role pm she (I) got.

Personally, I think Soviets vs. US is a definite possibility, but it is by no means a sure thing.

[Amrun]

I realize completely that it's hard to misunderstand the role PM, but seeing as I KNOW she did it, I'm just trying to offer a possible explanation. Honestly, I'm stumped myself and I know it looks bad so I just thought I'd take a stab at defending. PI's gameplay was absolutely baffling and I've been put in a hard position, replacing her.

For the record, I was not trying to hint at a PR. I was talking about flavor. My character was someone I might expect to see on scumside, but he's town.


About LF, yes, that is the point of buddying, but that's such an obvious buddyploy that I don't buy it. I think it's just LF's playing style. As I said, I have a weak town read on him so far.

As for your tunneling, I'm not talking about you keeping your vote on PI. I'm talking about your absolute lack of scumhuunting. iirc, you were not the person to start the bandwagon and I can't recall you actually presenting new information on it. However, you have been steadfast, and if you are town, I do believe you think she is scum and are trying to lynch her for that reason...

But seriously, tunneling is anti-town, especially at this stage of the game. Even if PI were to flip scum -- which she (I) won't, if I am killed -- she wouldn't be the only scum in the game.

Nothing is stopping you from scumhunting others, even if you keep your vote on PI. You, however, show a total lack of interest in that.

[Amrun]

Amrun - scum would buddy a townie up for a lynch so that, when the townie gets lynched, they get town points for not being on the mislynch. Now, why are you voting someone for pressure when you have actual scumreads? You're starting to sound a lot like you're trying to sound town, not like you actually are town (the long "ignore my scummy predecessor!" at the start of your catchup post, the Vote: x cast suspicion on: a, b, c!, and the I won't flip scum! in your most recent post)

I just wanted to shake things up a little bit. So far, the votes are so spread out that my one vote spreading more things out won't make much of a difference.

It seemed to me that people are really set in their votes, yet we don't have majority. Something has to change.

I have actual scumreads, but I also have an actual scumread on Fuzzman, whom I voted for. Right now, he seems like the ultimate lurker in a scummy way. He only shows up when people are bitching about him to say he is not US or Soviet? To me, that is suspect. I also think that even if he isn't scum, he is probably third party and not beneficial to town. He seems to be trying to skate by. I don't like it.


p-edit: What about 504 makes you nervous? XScorp pushed me for a read on him and I gave him my honest answer, which is that I think tunneling at this stage of the game is anti-town, but not anti-town enough to merit a vote.


If Fuzz never shows up and responds to my vote, I'll be forced to change it to someone more fruitful, but I think it's beneficial to town to try and get something out of him. I would like to see him lynched because I think he's scum. That's why I voted for him.

Besides Fuzz, my top suspect is ThAd, but the bandwagon seems to be falling his way at this point and I'd rather not just come into a game and follow. I'd rather say something for myself first.

[Amrun]

Oh, woops, I inserted the p-edit BEFORE my final paragraph. That was a mistake.

[Amrun]

Bvoigt: I don't like to form too solid opinions when I replace into a game. I don't experience the posts organically so I feel like my perspective is skewed by everyone else's suspicions. I try to come up with some new arguments, but I think it's better to do so as things unfold around me.

In general, though, I do not tunnel and my town reads are rare. Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

So for the moment, I AM on the fence about several people. I am more certain about others, which I said first. Anyone 100% on their reads of EVERYONE or majority is either delusional or scum.

As for Fuzzman, he is scummy-looking to me but a read based on one post is hardly trustworthy, not to mention a lynch is unlikely at this point.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: your reactions: they've been scattered and inconsistent, some very flippant and uncooperative. More than that, though, I'd like to see you flip because I think analyzing who was pushing/defending you and how will be fruitful.

@Furc: you completely misunderstood my post. I did not contradict myself at all. I tend not to get many town reads in general. Instead of everyone starting in my mind as town, they start as scum. Some people have earned a lot of townpoints, but some have earned only a little bit.

If I was on the fence about everybody in the game, your attacks would make sense, but I'm not and they don't.

[Amrun]

Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

This is scum thinking.

What? No, it's not. Please explain to me how that even REMOTELY makes sense.


Scum already know who the scum are and who is town. Why would everyone be scum to them...? What...?

[Amrun]

I do keep my options open. That was the whole point of the post in question... Wow. What is going on?

I do have a fever, so perhaps I'm speaking gibberish atm, but it seems to me that everyone is failing reading comprehension right now.

[Amrun]

No, I didn't say until they had proven to the rest of the GAME that they are town. I said until they had proven to ME, personally, they are town. Often, those are two totally separate things.

It doesn't promote opportunistic wagoning to me, though now that I think about it I suppose it could in the hands of someone else. I'm usually very cautious with my votes and very much not a wagon-hopper.

Am I supposed to lie and say I'm NOT sick? I am only here because I've skived off classes because I'm ill.

[Amrun]

Am I supposed to lie and say I'm NOT sick? I am only here because I've skived off classes because I'm ill.

No, you just don't say anything at all. This is the exact same thing when people make a post and then later say "well I was drunk". I don't give a damn if someone is sick/drunk/tired/hungry/working/ect. All I care about is the posts. When people try to make excuses for their play, it's BAD!

Fair enough. Me being out of my skull doesn't CHANGE what I posted, and anyone may choose to take it seriously or not. However, me being in fever delirium is relevant information. I'd want to know it, if the shoe was on the other foot.

If it doesn't make a difference to you, then nothing has changed, has it?

[Amrun]

I'm not disregarding anything... I don't think I said anything particularly scummy. I just said things in a confusing way and had some strange logic because I couldn't think straight. I was apologizing for making confusing posts. Confusing or not, they're not scummy.

I would like to know, in anyone else's position, because I like as much information as possible to inform my decision.

[Amrun]

I appreciate that you alone seem to have understood what I was trying to say earlier, but how can you not see how your flip is beneficial?

Of all the potential wagons, some people are VERY adamant about yours and have been pushing it hard. Others have put up defense. When you flip, this can give us some great information.

Other flips can also give us information, but more people have been talking about yours than any other in a way that I find the most informative.

As I said, GW would also be an informative flip, but less so.

[Amrun]

Furcolow, what don't you like about the one-liner you quoted from me?

I don't like a lot of things you post, for the record, but that doesn't make it automatically scummy.

Having a different philosophy of play doesn't make me scum. In fact, it can't. I approach each and every game exactly the same way, scum or not.

[Amrun]

Nacho: Actually, yes, I am.

Voting for fuzzyman is 100% pointless at this stage, so I'll quit.

UNVOTE: Fuzzyman[/vote]

VOTE: ThAdmiral


I was really hoping to see some more content out of him...

@mod: request prod Fuzzyman

[Amrun]

Oops, I did those tags wrong.

UNVOTE: Fuzzyman
VOTE: TheAdmiral

[Amrun]

Yes, especially since I am neither cynical or negative.

The whole point of this game is to not trust anyone, so I don't. I try not to get so set in my own ways that I blind myself to new developments. I try not to trust anyone so implicitly that I use anyone else as a crutch. This is the way I like to play and the way I play in every single game, regardless of alignment.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: I'm on my phone so I will get you examples later. Being flippant isn't a scumtell, but it is antitown, when we're trying to question you.

And don't get me wrong, I think you're likely scum and that's why I'd see you lynched. However, either way your flip will be informative -- even if you flip town, seeing who PUSHED your lynch rather than defended is more helpful.

[Amrun]

So your sole reason for voting for me is you think other people are scum?

[Amrun]

Red, you better revise that little scenario in your mind.

I think you're likely town, but you've got at least one misread. I won't flip scum.

Obviously I realize you can't write off the idea that I am scum, but you should at least consider the possibility that I flip town. What will you think about LMP then?

[Amrun]

Wow, furc, that's the biggest stretch I've ever seen.

I have ONE completed newbie game on this site, which I replaced into. I was town. All other games are on-going, but I died in one which I also replaced into (town).

What is this Verona mafia you're talking about?

Also, YES, I asked a question of someone voting for me (shocker). It's to a lurker who hasn't answered me (another shocker).

I have shared my reads and contributed to this game a lot. To say all I do is ask one-liner questions is the biggest misrepresentation I can think of.

[Amrun]

Still not going to answer my question, then?

[Amrun]

Thanks for answering. I just wanted to see what you would say, stephoscope.

Of course you're right. My flip will be informative, if I'm killed. At least I will help town in that way.

I'd rather be helpful alive, though, and I'd rather we lynch scum instead of mislynching.

I've made my cases and defenses... So we'll see, I guess.

P-edit: Furc... Screen names are important for meta. Haha.

[Amrun]

I have not relied on being town as far as other people's reads go -- or at least, that has not been my intention.

All I was trying to do was explain my own reads. Since I came into a game. With a wagon already on me, I was analyzing people according to their interactions with my slot. As atownie, the only information you have is that you are town.

But it's Valentine's weekend and my boyfriend is mad at me for posting, so more will have to wait.

[Amrun]

Okay, I'm going to do something I might catch flak for. I think the game is somehow simultaneously stagnating and heading towards a mislynch and I want to help out the town in any way I can...

I am General McArthur. I silence one player during the night and they can't vote next day. I'm US. I am town.

At this point, you either believe me or don't. McArthur being town is a huge reason for PI to think it is US vs. Soviet. Do I necessarily agree with her? No, but it does make it more likely.

For those unfamiliar, McArthur was basically a warmonger, but he's from the US and town in this game.

I understand the wagon on me. PI's play was scummy and I guess I'm still too inexperienced to redeem a scummy slot.

At least town can avoid a mislynch if they believe me, now. Scum might kill me at night but I was likely to be targetted if town had a nk anyway. That's why I decided to claim.

All my cards are now on the table.

[Amrun]

David Parker, you still want to vote for me without even addressing my fullclaim...?

[Amrun]

As I said earlier in the game, I would have expected to see my own character on scumside. For this reason, I think a US vs Soviet set up is most likely.

I understand the concerns being brought up. I didn't create my own character, so that's not my decision.

I planned to use my role to silence votes from likely scum, or, lacking a good candidate, a VI. I was surprised to see my ability, as I think silencing is rare on townside, but it is what it is.

My win-con is "you win when all the threats to the peace are dead" or something along those lines. This is what makes me doubt Soviet vs. US despite my role. I think most likely is town (US), Soviet (mafia), other nationalities (third party), since Fuzzyman's slot claimed another nationality. Still, this is not for sure. Why hasn't Fuzzyman's slot received more pressure for this scummy statement? I just don't get it. I tried to put more pressure on and somehow got portrayed as scum for doing so.

I claimed for the same reasons I stated above. I wasn't close to lynch yet, but I could see it heading that way and before it got to the point of no return, I wanted to give the town what information I had so that they could re-assess before final vote.

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

Another reason I did it is because it seemed to me that people were 100% convinced of my scumminess due to PI's play and PI's play alone, with one or two exceptions. It made me curious... Could ANYTHING I could have done reversed the thoughts of those players pushing my wagon... Even a full reveal? Apparently not.

At this point, I'm done arguing. I've given absolutely everything I have to give. If town still finds me suspicious, then whatever. Not my problem anymore.

As for my personal vote, I'm happy with my ThAd vote.

[Amrun]

One of the reasons I decided to do it was because ThAd jumped on my wagon -- OMGUS, self-preservation, or scumvote? You decide.

All three perhaps?

That's actually EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Scum votes for the competing wagon... Obvious self-preservation, but he can pass it off as OMGUS, which is not always seen as scummy. The competing wagon gets another vote and is closer to being lynched, yet scum does not automatically get extra suspicion because of it.

Seems like a scumplay to me -- a good one, actually, and probably his best bet as scum at this point.

By itself it says nothing, but in context, I think it does.

[Amrun]

I meant to say that if it really was OMGUS, it probably would have happened sooner. ThAd's lack of vote(s) is something I've noted before this.

Anyway, it's only one tiny thing in a long list of things.

[Amrun]

Oh, I meant to add that even though silencing is a strange town ability, it makes perfect sense with the theme. He was a blacklister, after all. Silencing is what he did to people in real life.

[Amrun]

I didn't say he was a general. He's not.


But after I saw your post, I went back and actually checked... It's McCarthy, not McArthur. That's my bad and I'll probably get lynched for it. All the things I said about McArthur I actually meant McCarthy. I didn't confuse people, just the actual name.

And I never said the set up was DEFINITELY US vs. Soviet. I said that because McCarthy was so hungry for war, I might have expected to see him on the scum side, but he's not. This makes a US vs. Soviet set up more credible, but it's not a sure thing. I never said it was. I ONLY said this at all because of the original confusion about PI's statement. I wouldn't have speculated on it at all if not for that.


And AGAIN, I am done defending. I have fully role revealed. There is NOTHING ELSE I CAN DO.

If you don't believe my role, I can't help that. It was the role I was given.

[Amrun]

Yeah, I realize that now. What an idiot move on my part.

My thinking was that I'd be more likely to "paraphrase" if I didn't go re-read my role description, and therefore when I said it would sound natural and not rehearsed. Rehearsed role reveals look scummy, imho.

Obviously this was a mistake and I'm an stupid. Ugh.

[Amrun]

HAHA. "I'm an stupid."

It just keeps getting better.

[Amrun]

Joseph McCarthy, US Blacklister.

I somehow got the names confused in my mind (I guess because they sound similar).

Obviously, I know that makes me look bad. If you want to lynch me for that, proceed. I understand.

p-edit: I didn't even remember I said the word general until you pointed it out. I got my names confused and I guess I'm just subconsciously used to pairing "General" with "McArthur."

[Amrun]

I don't know how public it is, but at the very least, the player should be conspicuous for not voting (if mod tells him he has been silenced and can't vote) or if we think a hammer has happened and there's no lynch, it will be obvious. I will ask the mod about this, though. Now I can announce who I'm silencing so that should help confirm.

And David Parker, that's my whole point about US vs. Soviet. McCarthy is NOT pro peace, and yet in this game, he is pro town. That alone is what made me think US v Sovviet might actually BE the set up.

P-edit: mothrax, I was going to give your slot a chance but you're striking me as scum waffling.

The attack on McCarthy being a warmonger is onvious. Why would scum claim it in my position if it was fake. If that was my fakeclaim, I would never have used it. I'd have researched some obscure guy. But whatever you say. When I flip, you'll be scummier.

[Amrun]

Worry for the typos. I'm on my phone.

[Amrun]

Sorry, I meant. Crap.

[Amrun]

Mothrax: waffling was a bad choice of words there. What I meant was that your voting for me on a strange case AFTER I reveal looked desperate to me. People keeping their votes on me is one thing, but to start a case on me after claim? It looks like mafia is trying to get lucky and get me lynched anyway, then pass it off as an understandable mislynch later.

Someone please explain the supposed scum motivation of revealing as McCarthy.

DP: What? Your post makes no sense. It makes almost as little sense as you voting for artem (or did you mean me) for being "too town."

[Amrun]

Eh, I did forget about that, but the vote still looks opportunistic to me, like it's trying to keep the wagon going before it gets derailed by my claim. That doesn't automatically make you scum, which is why my vote is still on ThAd for now, but it isnt looking townie that you apparently didn't even stop to consider my claim.

Once again: in your opinion, what are the scum motivations for claiming McCarthy at this juncture of the game?

[Amrun]

Uh, I never said it was.... I said that my role made me think it was POSSIBLE. I have no confirmation of this. I even said my wincon ("you win when all threats to the peace have been neutralized") made me doubt that.

smargaret is misrepping scum.

p-edit: DP beat me to it, but I'll post anyway.

[Amrun]

Oh, wait, I missed the second part of your post, DP.

How have I misrepped you? I was asking you a direct question. I really didn't understand what you meant by that post. (You can use wiki...?) why the vote back on me?

And I believe it was you who voted for artem for "being so town" or something along those lines and it stuck out to me as making no sense.

p-edit: mothrax, I actually understand that point all too well. I can't do anything about it. I thought fabricating my own, less-questionable flavorname would be a lot more risky than just sticking with my ACTUAL flavorname. Lying as town makes no sense even when my flavorname is so... meh. It's really not my fault or my problem any longer. That's the mod's decision.

[Amrun]

DP, how on earth is making a factual statement about the setup and stating an opinion about a player misrepping?

a) No one knows if your statement is factual or not.

b) I never said it was definitely Soviet vs. US and your post CLEARLY implied I did. Of course, your first and second sentences COULD be totally unrelated... but ANYONE reading your post would assume they are related, and if they were skimming they might assume I said it was definitely Soviet vs US and that this makes me a liar. That's a misrepresentation.

[Amrun]

a. How do we know Fuzzyman isn't lying or third party? We don't. Are you softclaiming a third nationality?

b. The only reason I speculated on the set up at all is because of my predecessor's actions. Given the role PM she got (since I got it too), it is not too strange that she might think it was US vs. Soviet. McCarthy as town makes it seem this way. Of course, the wincon does NOT, but there are two conflicting pieces of information there. As I've stated before, PI's play is not how I would have played it, but in a lot of ways, her previous play forced my hand. I have to play according to what she did because replacing in is not, in fact, being given a clean slate.

[Amrun]

@Scott: I don't know if this is what LMP meant, but when I read that post, I thought he meant that scum wouldn't fakeclaim McCarthy. It would be a terrible fakeclaim, and has nothing to do with the player, but instead the original mod (CallMeLiam) and his decision. I know that CML wouldn't give such a bad fakeclaim, but that's up to everyone else to decide. I don't have anything else to say on this matter.

@Feysal: I do appreciate the support, but I don't know what good it will do at this point.

I felt the stirrings and saw that a lynch was well and truly headed my way. PI's play was bad and my play was far from perfect. I was not doing a great job of redeeming the slot. I might have been okay if people weren't already looking at the slot with extra-critical eyes, but I'm not so great at deflecting pressure yet. (This game has taught me a lot, so that's good, I guess.)

I just didn't want to go down wondering, "If I had claimed, would it have made a difference?"

[Amrun]

I don't know if scum have fakeclaims, but it's pretty standard for scum to have fakeclaims on this site. That's what regulars told me on scumchat, at least. I suggested a game without fakeclaims and it was like I committed sacrilege...

[Amrun]

Mind elaborating some more, lurker, I mean, Lowell?

[Amrun]

Oh, was that Furcolow who said the "too town" thing? Then, my apologies to DavidParker.

[Amrun]

Also, just heard back from mod.

There will be no public announcement about the silencing, but it will be obvious in the vote counts.

If I live (looking increasingly unlikely), I will announce my silencing target in twilight.

[Amrun]

Okay, gonnano. Obviously I know that McCarthy was a notorious bad guy. So, then, why would I claim him as town if I'm NOT town?

What benefit would that have for me?

[Amrun]

Not even considering the idea that I'm town after a full claim = scum.

Lowell's post = even scummier. Lurker trying to get in before the hammer and not offering ANY new information.

I'm posting these things to be noted after I flip.

Also, ThAd hasn't commented at all on this... Seems fishy.

[Amrun]

[quote="Nachomamma8"]IF YOU WOULD STOP THE WIFOM FOR ONE SECOND IT WOULD MAKE ME VERY HAPPY.[/quote

If you would stop the caps for one second it would make me happy.

I'm not trying to WIFOM anyone. In fact, I've been very straight forward.

I fully roleclaimed. People are still voting for me, so I'm asking a basic question: what are the possible scum motivations for doing as I have done?

There aren't any, so people haven't posted any and claim WIFOM instead because they're scum or the question is too hard, I guess... I can't think of any other reason.

[Amrun]

Sorry about the quote tag. Not sure how that happened.

[Amrun]

Wow, bvoigt, you're going to hammer me with ABSOLUTELY NO CONTENT?

[Amrun]

No. I'm not.

And you're scummy for hammering the way you did and ending day early. I hope they go after you next.

[Amrun]

Once again, it's not my problem. Did I make this set up? No.

[Amrun]

Okay, if that is true, does anyone have any requests for who I should silence tomorrow?

[Amrun]

@BoS:

I never confused anything but names, as MacArthur wasn't even an actual presence in the Cold War. So yes, I was thinking of McCarthy.

Yes, my top reads are based on reactions to my wagon. Using the knowledge of my own role seems the safest way to hunt to me, at least in this situation where I replaced into a game where there was already a wagon on me.

I do plan on doing a re-read as soon as I have time and hope to give a new set of reads at that time, taking into consideration the activity since then. This probably won't happen until late Tuesday night or Wednesday afternoon, though. I'm a little crunched for time as far as something that intensive goes. The first read through took several hours and I anticipate the next one taking longer.


re: gonnano

He is giving me scum pings, but I have to admit, I don't have any specific reason for this. I plan to address this upon re-read.

[Amrun]

re: gonnano

I meant I don't have any specific reasons besides what I noted on the last page.

[Amrun]

Gonnano: I considered lying and giving a different flavorname, but what if someone else had that flavorname and counterclaimed? Also, silencing as a town role is a stretch anyway without it fitting as flavor with McCarthy. Very likely I would have been lynched anyway and then gained a meta as a liar. I'd rather tell the truth.

You might see it as a dangerous claim, and I knew some would, but I read the situation on me, and the ThAd wagon was losing ground, the moth/jmj wagon wasn't even close, and the wagon on ME was gaining speed. I didn't want to wait until the hammer was about to happen. I thought it would be a lot less fruitful that way. That relies on everyone being online etc.

I also meant to add that BoS makes a great point... WHO is EGL? Lurker much? Wow.

[Amrun]

I won't silence you, Furc, because as much as your play has annoyed me this game, I actually believe your claim.

[Amrun]

As I said, I considered it. However, silencing would be a strange ability on a random obscure townie, imho, and I would come under just as much heat for that... And in the end, I'd rather not lie as town even if lying might be the smarter move in this way. I'm still pretty new and I could see it backfiring. Idk. Lying isn't my strong suit.

Believe or not that I am town. I doubt there's anything I could do to convince you otherwise at this point.

[Amrun]

That's a good point. I forgot Furc hadn't full claimed.

[Amrun]

I forgot that Furc didn't full claim, so my top two choices for silencing are Furc and smarg. Smarg's blatant misrep of me on an earlier page was a major scumtell for me.

However, if there is some sort of consensus between enough people that they can't all be mafia about whom I should silence, I will do that.

[Amrun]

@Furc: I said that to prompt a full claim. You're off the silencing list for now.

Also, your EGL idea is not bad, not bad at all...

@TheAd: I understand your points against me, which are basically "Amrun could be lying!". I could. What else could I say to show that I am not? Nothing I can think of.

Also, I didn't come out and say, "there's no scum motivation for this" off the bat. People called it scummy, I asked why... No one could answer.

I feel an air of desperation about your recent posts.

[Amrun]

I just realized Xscorp will have an aneurysm and keep his vote on me anyway. Haha.

[Amrun]

Notice the horrible misrep in post 827. Not only did he take the quote out of context, where I went on to say the wincon conflicts that, but he snipped half of the sentence out where I mentioned third parties. It's obvious with how it ends in another comma.

Bad, scum. Bad.

Xscorp reaction just as predicted.

For the record, Furc has now claimed a non-US townie. Before that discussion took place, no one had done so.

[Amrun]

Fuzzyman said that, but he did not say he was a townie, and that's the ONLY thing he has EVER posted.

But the point of my post was to show why PI might have thought US vs. Soviets in game beginning, since it's freaking McCarthy and he's town.

[Amrun]

You don't believe me, so why should I believe you?

I didn't choose to be McCarthy as town. I just AM McCarthy as town.

Maybe it's capitalist vs. communist, then? Hmm.

[Amrun]

Yeah, you're right about threats to the peace. I don't know, then.

But for the last time, I'm done arguing about this. Either choose to believe me or not. I can't change my role and I'm not going to bend over backwards to convince everyone of something that I have no more power to influence. I've told you what I know. The end.

[Amrun]

People promoting no lynch are making me suspicious, especially ThAd, since he is the alternative. "Let me live one more night," he seems to be saying.

At this point, I no longer care. I'll continue to play and share my suspicions as long as I am alive, but I've done what I can do for town as of now.

If you kill me, at least we got some sort of flip and I will be vindicated by my role reveal anyway. Do what you must, all.

[Amrun]

Sathoris: How does it seem manufactured? That doesn't make sense with anything else you said. If it was manufactured, I would ... You know what, never mind. It's pointless.

Death to all scumlurkers.

[Amrun]

So EGL shows up and votes on the biggest wagon without saying anything. Then he notices someone is voting for him, sees an accusation of buddying, and votes for his supposed buddy.

That's town behavior. Right.

[Amrun]

EGL: your attempt at making town think you're not trying to slip uunder the radar with very little content has failed. Or at least it should have.

No scumpair would buddy as hard as Llama has been defending me. Ugh. Brains please.

P-edit: Oh, fuck. If I'm secretly a miller I will be so annoyed. I think it's unlikely, though, since I do have a PR.

The case against gonnano is meh. He is wishy washy and too careful, but not obvscum to me. A little scummy, yes, but not as extreme as some are suggesting. I wouldn't be upset to see him swing, though. He could be scum and his flip would be informative.

[Amrun]

She actually said there might be a miller, which is easily explained by there being a miller in the off-site cold war game she referenced.

[Amrun]

Okay, I'm tired of defending PI's shitty play.

Yes, it was shitty, and so is her English. The point is that in context, it was obvious why she made those guesses: an off-site game she told us about that Feysal found and I checked out. That game had a miller and was USA vs. Soviets.

That doesn't make her scummy. It just means she communicated badly. I can't help that.

[Amrun]

a) How is a post with a vote and NOTHING ELSE "no fluff?" Just because you acknowledged your lack of posts doesn't mean anything. I read that as trying to appeal to humor to avoid more suspicion.

b) I understand your confusion about PI's statements, because, quite frankly, they were confusing. It is what it is.

p-edit:

No, we can't discuss outside of thread in ANY capacity.

I have considered the idea that he's town-buddying me as scum, but I have decide he isn't. He's caught too much flak for it and it's OBVIOUS he would catch flak for it, not surprising that he did. I don't think scum would ever stick his neck out soooooo far for a townbuddy.

[Amrun]

@EGL; A vote on the top wagon with zero explanation is fluff, in my opinion. No wiggling out of it... it's fluff, and scummy fluff at that.

Honestly, I don't know WHY Llama is so sure of me. It seems to be his playstyle. I guess he's a good reader.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: pushing for a test on governor when you did had a good chance of leading to a mislynch.

I already did paraphrase my flavor, but you disagree. McCarthy didn't warmonger in the sense that he pushed us to go to war with the Soviet Union. He warmongered in the sense that he created so much upheaval and paranooia in his own country. (Interestingly, I am doing the same by having claimed McCarthy. Maybe this game is deeper cover than we thought.)

I don't know why everyone is flat out not believing he is town. While I readily admit it is a bit strange, still, McCarthy was seeking spies. He was doing in real life what we are pretending to do now, just badly. (More irony? Ha.)

P-edit: I'm also willing to lynch EGL.

[Amrun]

Oops, in my last post, I meant no lynch in my first paragraph, not mislynch.

[Amrun]

No matter what you say about McCarthy, he worked to protect the US. He was just touched in the head.

I see you're saying the same thing I did when I claimed: believe it or not, it's up to you. You hurry to add, MY GUY IS PEACEFUL THOUGH!

I don't know what to think or if I should believe you. Kissinger was fairly prominent, iirc... Is this a believable fakeclaim? I'm not sure. Someone with more history knowledge should weigh in on this.

If I decide to believe your claim after I do some research on Kissinger, I'd like to lynch EGL instead. His posts were scummy and I've pointed out why.

Thad, care to explain your flip flopping on gonnano?

[Amrun]

@ThAd: I missed your post on the previous page. My apologies.

re the question about governors: In my experience, gameplay stops. However, I've never seen a governor in play on mafiascum.

You did address the gonnanno shift in the other post, but inadequately. You actually WEREN'T saying the same thing. "Escaping scrutiny" means he deserves to have scrutiny, which is what you were implying.

re threats to the peace: Yes, I do realize that. But McCarthy never caused any trouble outside of the US, and his efforts inside the US were not anti-US, just paranoid. But I understand this point and I can't do much about it. My role simply is McCarthy town. I didn't pick it.

Still, I've read up on your flavorclaim and have decided I believe that, if you have a convincing role claim to go along with it.

[Amrun]

@BoS: Honestly, I've never seen a town role that prevents voting (on ms, though I have seen it elsewhere), but it fits McCarthy flavor perfectly. I didn't make the role. I understand the reservations about it, but I can't defend. There is nothing more to be said.

I am discussing my night target because why not? What difference does it make? I've fully revealed. If scum has an RB, my target shouldn't affect whether or not they use it on me. If scum has an RB I assume they'd use it on me anyway.

I thought that if I do happen to live, my role will be more useful if I silence who the town wants me to silence rather than my own shot in the dark. No one seems to be really giving me suggestions, besides asking me to silence Furc, so I will use solely my own reads, I guess, since I believe Furc's claim.

Not sure that this business about distancing from gonnano is, though.


@ThAd: Your first post on this subject implied that gonnano had not been receiving suspicion and SHOULD be receiving suspicion. Your second post implied that he WAS receiving suspicion and you couldn't see why so you wanted someone to tell you.

They really do not compute.

Maybe it was misspeaking and not what you meant, but it doesn't matter. The statements do not compute.

And you never answered me: what is your role, since you're claiming? Why claim just flavor?

[Amrun]

@BotS: I just saw the miller part of your post. She said that because in the other cold war game she played in, there was a miller, as far as I can tell. The game has been found and there was indeed a prominent miller.

@smarg: Of course you do.


And can I officially request that people LEARN HOW TO SPELL MY NAME? It really isn't that hard.

Sotty gets a pass because she's dyslexic. Everyone else needs to learn how to spell out five letters.

[Amrun]

@ThAd:

I somehow overlooked that detail. I hadn't thought of it in that way. I'll keep my target to myself. I hope scum doesn't have an RB.

And my role title is Joseph McCarthy, US Blacklister.


With DP's backing, I'm going to

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral

[Amrun]

When did anyone say I got the wincon wrong?

If you didn't notice, I was paraphrasing. I've actually never claimed before and I don't know how strict the paraphrase rule is.

Since you just now brought it up, I win when all threats to the peace have been killed.

EGL still fails to understand the concept of having town reads on someone.

Do you think governor roles are always masons or scum? They're not. That's how the role functions. Governor is supposed to rely on his reads.

Whether llama actually is gov or not, he was impersonating one, and that's thew intention of the role impersonated.

Whether you believe he is telling the truth is another matter entirely. You seem to be questioning the foundation of the governor role itself.

P-edit: Don't replace out.

[Amrun]

Well, ask him that. I don't know, but I'm grateful for ihim doing that.

But I would like to point out that this may be D1, but it's been a long, arduous D1.

[Amrun]

@Bunny: MacArthur wasn't even involved in the Cold War.

Think about how bad of a fakeclaim McCarthy would be for scum.

That's all there is to say about that.

Fuzzyman claimed a third nationality. Care to elaborate with flavor? (Keep the role to yourself, though, obviously.)

@EGL:

I was happy with my vote for ThAd until DP vouched for him.

Now, I'm going to take a little time to make sure my vote is good.

But don't worry. You're the top contender.

[Amrun]

Gonanno, when I knew I decided to claim, I knew it would open a big can of worms.

In the end, I decided I'd rather claim the truth and be lynched for it than get a reputation for lying as town. That's not a good reputation to have.

I am secure in knowing that when I flip, I will be indicated.

Can you say the same thing?

I'm starting to doubt.

[Amrun]

*vindicated

[Amrun]

If you don't know who MacArthur is, why say all that specific stuff about him trying to start war with Communists when it wasn't true?

And what do you mean, there is no flavor...?

My PM has tons of flavor.

Uh...

Fuzzy/bunny (ha, fuzzybunny) has just moved back up to my #1 scum read.

[Amrun]

I think that's one of several slips on this page by the jvw/fuzzy/bunny slot.

VOTE: bunnylover

[Amrun]

That's what I asked you to do earlier.

And I pushed for Fuzzy's lynch when he said that. I didn't realize he replaced jmv (or forgot) and missed that particular clash, or I'd have pushed even harder.

[Amrun]

And you told me you didn't know who MacArthur was, and everything you said about MacArthur is wrong.

[Amrun]

Well, what you actually did was say, "MacArthur did this and this" and then when I pointed out you were wrong, you said, "I don't know anything about history."

It just doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

Okay, I see what you are saying about MacArthur now. You confused me. I have it now.

But "no flavor" and the obvslip that Llama found are hard to overlook.

[Amrun]

Well, I have a TON of flavor, so that doesn't sit well with me.

[Amrun]

^^ He is, iirc.

[Amrun]

if I recall correctly

[Amrun]

@RC: I seriously doubt McArthur is actually in this game, though, so it probably doesn't matter.

[Amrun]

@EGL:

No thoughts on bunny?

[Amrun]

^^ I thought it was strange when fuzzy said that, but I didn't realize he was a replacement for the previous guy, probably since I replaced in myself, so I didn't crosscheck it.

I didn't like it when he said, it, though, and I voted for him then. That was more of a pressure, vote, whereas now I think bunny is actually guilty, most likely.

For me, the combination of the "no flavor" claim and the slip are truly significant.


Before this all came out with bunny, I was leaning towards probably voting EGL, though. He is scummy too, but now he's my #2 read.

[Amrun]

DP, that was some scummy shit there bro. Your backing was the only reason I unvoted ThAd.

Shit. Idk what to do now.

[Amrun]

AMRUN IS NOT ARTEM AFLJKIAKJasdlfjafasdf

[Amrun]

@gonanno: You're not the first one, but it's caused problems in the game and people need to take note.

[Amrun]

Okay, so she's claiming RB.

The vague doubt in the back of my mind that maybe vanilla townies don't get as much flavor as I have is now out the window.

[Amrun]

Bunny lynch is going a little bit too smoothly. I'm starting to feel uncomfortable.

However, the fact remains that for her claim to be true, she'd have to be a town roleblocker with 8 words of flavor... As Che Guevara.

I just can't buy it. Kissinger had more flavor than that and his is kind of self-explanatory.

Having a town pr pm to compare it to, it just seems like an absolute impossibility.

But as I analyze it, the "slip" seems less like a slip. Ugh.

@gonnano:

This is the first post of yours that 100% pinged my scumdar. Screams distancing and chainsaw defense at the same time.

[Amrun]

@XScorp: You're tunneling so hard that I won't address you anymore because it's pointless. There's nothing I can do to convince you I'm town.

@gonnano: You're chainsawing bunny while distancing/bussing her at the same time. "If one of these people flip town, they're both town. Let's lynch Amrun and find out." I was the first person to go after both Fuzzy and bunny.

[Amrun]

@DP: Notice how I didn't unvote. There's a reason for that.

It just is a little odd since we've had such trouble lynching anyone the whole game.

I've decided to attribute the ease to the impending deadline alone.

[Amrun]

@DP: But I addressed what he said, so how did I ignore him?

In this case, I understand the question, so I answered it, as you both asked the same question.

But he is tunneling hard on me ever since PI and never once seems to have entertained the possibility I am town. Most of his points against me suck.

[Amrun]

@gonanno:

If that's the case, then it makes no difference which one of us flips first, and yet you go for the one nowhere close to majority with like 30 hours left to deadline.

In addition, her role makes the least sense as town and is more dangerous to town if it is scum.

Furthermore, your claim that Che Guevara is less scummy than McCarthy is actually laughable.

McCarthy was many things, but at least he never had a hand in nuclear warfare. That's definitely less peaceful than blacklisting people he suspects as Commies.

Your action makes no sense to me as town. None. I can only see scum doing what you just did.

If bunny flips town, I'll reconsider, but then your action just wouldn't make sense period, except that scum would want an innocent lynched without being on the bandwagon.

[Amrun]

No. I was confused on this also, but in this game means they can contribute but not vote.

[Amrun]

Oh, woops, forgot to answer this:

@EGL:

Che Guevara was THE biggest player in the Bay of Pigs Invasion / Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Amrun]

Che Guevara not wanting war? What is this?

Honestly, between my role and what bunny is saying, if she actually flips town, then this game is bastard. Period. :/

[Amrun]

Yes, but Che Guevara also gave a big "fuck you" to the world, imho.

My major problem with your claim is the supposed lack of flavor.

We actually have similar claims, but yours has NO flavor, just a name, and mine has tons. I just can't reconcile that.

[Amrun]

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

[Amrun]

Shit or get off the pot, David. I see no nameclaim for you.

[Amrun]

No. He hasn't nameclaimed and I don't want him to.

But he can't use his "nameclaim" like that if we don't know what it is.

[Amrun]

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

After three largely undistinguished years in the Senate, McCarthy rose suddenly to national fame in February 1950 when he asserted in a speech that he had a list of "members of the Communist Party and members of a spy ring" who were employed in the State Department. McCarthy was never able to prove his sensational charge.

From 1950 onward, McCarthy continued to exploit the fear of Communism and to press his accusations that the government was failing to deal with Communism within its ranks. These accusations received wide publicity, increased his approval rating, and gained him a powerful national following.

This fails to prove McCarthy's motivation. Just because what he DID gained him a national following doesn't mean that his motivation was to seek power.

Splitting hairs much?


@ThAd: Explain to me why you think that move makes sense.

[Amrun]

How do you know he lied? Maybe he really thought they were spies.

My point is you're either overthinking it or intentionally creating WIFOM. His surface motivation was definitely not power. We can't guess what was in his heart and I doubt the mod tried to, either.

[Amrun]

@gonnano: Or stupidity. The point is that you're trying to outguess the mod. McCarthy is known for trying to out Commie spies -- scum, in this situation. His motivation doesn't really matter and can't be proven.

@EgL: I'm going to type your name EgL from now on. It's been shown over and over again that the "slip" wasn't a slip at all, but badly worded speculation based on another game.

@both of you: How do you reconcile Bunny's total lack of flavor?

[Amrun]

Stalin and Castro are not comparable to McCarthy at all and that should be obvious.

I have said time and time again that I know why my character looks scummy. I can't help that. Not my problem. Tired of arguing about it.

So Bunny is 100% for sure scum, but you vote for me?

[Amrun]

And quite frankly, if Stalin came up town in this game I wouldn't be THAT surprised, the way things are going.

[Amrun]

@EGL: It's fine. I've probably messed up ThAd too.

And to be honest, about PI, she must have just been rushing through her PM, and it's also clear that English isn't her first language. However, to be technical, there is nothing that specifies that all the threats to the peace AREN'T Soviets.

My best guess is she saw McCarthy and assumed that if it WASN'T US vs. Soviets, she would be scum, but she's town, so she assumed US vs. Soviets (faulty reasoning).


I addressed the Bunny question to you as well, EGL, and I might as well address it to ThAd as well while I'm at it.

[Amrun]

@gonnano: You're missing the point that it's irrelevant here. McCarthy obviously had several screws loose in real life and it's hard to say which ones they were ... and it does NOT MATTER.

So bunny is most likely scum, but you try to re-start the wagon on me?

I'm still failing to see how this makes sense.

[Amrun]

I still don't understand why you think someone who might have been on ego-trip is more likely scum than someone who wanted to nuke an entire country, no. It sounds very much like you're trying to grasp at straws.

HOW did it make more sense to lynch me first at t-20 or whatever? It just... it just does not make sense to me.

I see that you're trying to explain, but your explanations are just not satisfactory. If that's my fault, then I apologize. I'm trying to grasp your reasoning here. I really am.

[Amrun]

Let's look at some Che Guevara quotes:

"Along the way, I had the opportunity to pass through the dominions of the United Fruit, convincing me once again of just how terrible these capitalist octopuses are. I have sworn before a picture of the old and mourned comrade Stalin that I won't rest until I see these capitalist octopuses annihilated."

"I am not Christ or a philanthropist, old lady, I am all the contrary of a Christ.... I fight for the things I believe in, with all the weapons at my disposal and try to leave the other man dead so that I don't get nailed to a cross or any other place."

"War is always a struggle in which each contender tries to annihilate the other. Besides using force, they will have recourse to all possible tricks and stratagems to achieve the goal."

"The desire to sacrifice an entire lifetime to the noblest of ideals serves no purpose if one works alone."

"On various occasions emissaries of the U.S. State Department came, disguised as reporters, to investigate our rustic revolution, yet they never found any trace of imminent danger. By the time the imperialists wanted to react — when they discovered that the group of inexperienced young men marching in triumph through the streets of Havana had a clear awareness of their political duty and an iron determination to carry out that duty — it was already too late."

"Power is the sine qua non strategic objective of the revolutionary forces, and everything must be subordinated to this basic endeavor. But the taking of power, in this world polarized by two forces of extreme disparity and absolutely incompatible in interests, cannot be limited to the boundaries of a single geographic or social unit. The seizure of power is a worldwide objective of the revolutionary forces."
^^ How is that for power hungry?

"When forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law, peace is considered already broken."
^^ This one is pretty huge. He's saying that if there is oppression, peace is already broken and there is therefore no need to keep the peace. Does this relate to town wincon? It seems to be in direct opposition.


And the big ones...

"If they attack, we shall fight to the end. If the rockets had remained, we would have used them all and directed them against the very heart of the United States, including New York, in our defense against aggression. But we haven’t got them, so we shall fight with what we’ve got."
^He just said that if he could have, he would have nuked the United States.

"'Moral missiles' are such a devastatingly effective weapon that they have become the most important element in determining Cuba's value."

"Is it possible or not, given the present conditions in our continent, to achieve it (socialist power, that is) by peaceful means? We emphatically answer that, in the great majority of cases, this is not possible."



I only went looking for the nuke quote to prove he wanted to bomb the US and would have if he could have, but found some other quotes too.

Working towards keeping the peace is not what Che Guevara did by his own admission, and he is such a huge character that only having that as flavor makes no sense.


To be fair, though, I did find a quote that indicated he could be town side:

"I knew that the moment the great governing spirit strikes the blow to divide all humanity into just two opposing factions, I would be on the side of the common people."

[Amrun]

@gonnano: I actually admire Che Guevara in a lot of ways, but how you think HE is more peaceable than McCarthy is what's baffling me. You still think that and it still doesn't make sense.

@EGL: What do you mean you missed where she is 100% scum.

p-edit: ohshi hammer.

[Amrun]

I have to agree, even though I was a big participant. No more flavor speculation from me this phase.

And I fully realize that if bunny flips scum, I look scum because I also have a questionable flavor, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll just be happy if she flips scum.

And if she flips town, I just don't know how this game cannot be bastard.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: But my slot has been active throughout the game and hers hasn't... so I don't think that's quite fair. But what I meant was not why you voted me at all, but why you voted me RIGHT THEN when it was pointless.

And you are more likely to have a sentence for flavor, since you claim to be a VT. And she didn't claim even a sentence. She claimed a name and "you win when you eliminate threats to the peace."

[Amrun]

If you are really town then I have just been mindfucked by the mod.

[Amrun]

Holy crap!! Three dead?!

What does "removed from the bunker" mean?

[Amrun]

Yeah, I figured, it was just a little strange wording. I don't know what role would do that.

[Amrun]

Amrun, who did you silence?

Gonnano.

[Amrun]

So bunny was Che Guevara and town, but you still want to lynch me for being McCarthy? Makes total sense. Not.

And I don't know if I was roleblocked, gonnano. I figured I probably would be, to be perfectly honest. Your vote is probably still good.

[Amrun]

Of course I understand that, but gonnano's reasons were because I was McCarthy, if I remember correctly.

He even said we should lynch either me or bunny first, and if one is town we're both probably town.

I was addressing gonnano specifically, not everyone.

[Amrun]

And for the record, this means that ThAd isn't off the table, in my eyes. Flavor is not to be trusted. The things I found scummy about him before are no longer negated by nameclaim.

[Amrun]

The mod said that it should be obvious in the votecounts, when I asked.

Well, shit. I guess I was roleblocked. :/

Furc slip does indeed seem bad, but I want to hear him defend himself.

[Amrun]

@mod: If gonnano were silenced, would it be reflected in the vote count?

[Amrun]

I never said scum thought I was so dangerous I got RB'ed. I don't know what happened.

Maybe it was a town role.

Most likely is that scum did it to try and frame me (and also because I was guaranteed blocked PR).

And it will probably work. I am not going to bend over backward to defend myself when there isn't much I can do.

I'll just concentrate on other things.

EGL, what were you trying to achieve with that question? It looks like rolefishing to me.

[Amrun]

Lynch all liars?

[Amrun]

@EGL: I wasn't parroting. I asked a question, whereas he just accused. How could you have missed LMP's deep suspicion of DP? It was made quite clear yesterday, when you were around and posting. It made your question stand out.

[Amrun]

@LMP: Artem's post was actually not stupid at all.

@BoS: Where did my post imply that at all? Also, how would you even infer that? Llama was my biggest supporter. If I was on a scum team, how do you imagine we would come to the conclusion to kill him?

Furcolow actually DID say he was a veteran, by the way.

[Amrun]

Your argument makes no sense, gonnano. You said that if I flipped town, bunny would probably be town... Logically, it should go both ways. We learned not to trust flavor. Her PR was also "scummy."

I didn't specify a target ONLY because people told me not to, so that's a huge misrep. And you know there are several other explanations for you not actually being silenced. What does nightkilling have to do with anything?

Gonnano is looking scummier and scummier. Ugh.

But Lowell-lurker is bad, EGL still not looking great, DP isn't looking great either, and Furcolow is a liar and I don't see the town motivation for that.

But my top two are gonnano and Furc right now.

[Amrun]

Oh, so, EGL, you think that makes me scum?

The point of that post wasn't the "three dead" remark. Even if it was, I don't see how that would make me scum, since I'm guessing that all of those kills were not made by scum... Whatever.

The actual point of the post was a very serious question: What does being pulled from the bunker mean?

I was not sure this constituted death. Now I see him listed among the dead, so I guess it is. But at first, it put me off guard. Also, I don't know what role would "pull people from the bunk." Mostly I was just trying to figure out if he was really dead.

I don't know what to think about Furcolow, but I don't see why town would lie and then fess up to it like that. It just seems so strange. Then he voted for himself...?

I'm also feeling pretty confident about gonnano being scum. EGL is also on my list, still, but lower. DP I can't figure out. Everyone else has had prominent characters, so maybe his is a fakeclaim... but Kissinger is also prominent and supposedly they are linked somehow. I can't figure that whole thing out.

VOTE: gonnano

His whole case was based on flavor, so his vote today makes zero sense.

[Amrun]

I already made my defenses against it. It's a dumb ass reason and definitely was not bragging.

[Amrun]

Mentioning the excessive number of night kills makes me scum? Okay then. Whatever.

I've explained why I made the post.

[Amrun]

It's been quoted like 5 times, so no, I won't do it again.

It wasn't gloating, either.

[Amrun]

And yet that's the only thing on Furc I saw you mention.

[Amrun]

I didn't want to dwell longer than to determine if that meant he could come back or not. I have since concluded it means he's dead, so, that was the point of that post.

[Amrun]

Well, gonnano, you should have spoken up anyway. That's what I thought, but no one else seemed to think so, and you were around at the time.

You're manufacturing a case based on something you were fine with yesterday.

Gonnano is scum.

[Amrun]

If I didn't want to help the town, why would I have made the announcement that I was going to do it in the first place?

I wanted the town to come to a consensus on who to block, and almost no one payed attention. Then ThAd attacked the whole idea and I got a little less secure in whether it was a good idea at all.

No one said who they wanted me to target except Feysal, who said something I disagreed with, and no one disagreed with ThAd. Everyone was apathetic and I assumed tacit agreement with ThAd.

And plus, I decided that if I came out and said it in those exact terms that it would defeat the purpose. "If scum blocks me, then my projected target was scum!" That's probably the easiest misdirection technique ever and I'm sure scum would take advantage of it, probably even if I said nothing, but quite likely if I said something specific about it. It's not a good idea to plant ideas in scum's head about how to screw over town.


Your flavor argument is really terrible.

[Amrun]

I disagree completely. I didn't want to give scum ideas and that's why I didn't come out and state explicitly. No one seemed to want to go along with my plan.

Your Che argument is still terrible.

[Amrun]

smarg, what about my second post?

[Amrun]

ThAd, any thoughts about how DP's role supposedly confirms yours, somehow?

Still waiting for explanation on DP for that one.

[Amrun]

Yes, I know. That's what makes me not believe you. I don't see anyway it could hurt you or him now that you have nameclaimed and he has fullclaimed.

[Amrun]

If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

[Amrun]

Whatever. I was concerned with how extremely little sense PI's play made, yes. I attempted to offer what explanation about it that I could, since I alone knew her role.

I also gave an extensive read list. I don't see what I did as scummy at all. I think ignoring PI's baffling play would have been much stranger.

[Amrun]

I did actually refute your argument extensively, yesterday, gonnano. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, especially since my side was validated by Bunny flipping town.

[Amrun]

And yet the Che Guevara Roleblocker was town.

Flavor arguments are bad at this point. If you're going to vote for, build a case based on my gameplay.

[Amrun]

Town silencers are also not unheard of.

I understand what you are saying, though, but my role is what it is. You'll be shocked later, I suppose.

[Amrun]

I WILL announce my target this time, now that all of that mess is out in the open. If gonnano lives today, it will probably be him again.

[Amrun]

I actually ISO'ed you after that and saw your old suspicions of Furc. I forgot them at the time. My apologies.

[Amrun]

Furcolow is now a doctor...

I don't where the votecount is, so I don't want to vote him yet, because if I quickhammered I'd be pissed.

[Amrun]

Nacho, why announce it like that? What perceivable town benefit is there in that?

Stephoscope has been coasting, but I don't think the rolefishing is quite as dramatic as smargaret is suggesting.

[Amrun]

I agree with bvoigt on this.

[Amrun]

Xscorp, seriously, YOU read it wrong. Nacho was saying he will kill someone tonight. He even clarified upon request.

[Amrun]

Ugh, so much misrep.

[Amrun]

Furc was mafia in New Designer's mafia - ongoing, but he flipped. Mod Llamafluff.

[Amrun]

Okay, but he's dead...? I was sure to mention that it was ongoing.

[Amrun]

Why is the gonnano wagon going nowhere?!

Why?! Why?!

He's so scummy it's making my eyes bleed.

And Furc is at it again.

It's almost so scummy it can't really be scum.

But then again, it's Furc.

Will vote for this wagon at deadline to achieve a lynch, though I'd rather see what happens to Furc at night.

Would also vote for smargaret, who has misrepped and done several other scummy things.

Still sticking with my lonely vote on gonnano for now.


Welcome to replacements.

People need to stop replacing out for dumb-ass reasons.

[Amrun]

Ugh, smarg, really?

Distancing yourself from your own play and your own reads?

Scum.

[Amrun]

Our interpretations differ.

Sincerity questionable.

You do not merit my vote today, but IGMEOY.

[Amrun]

Too late, the hell?

It's not deadline... And you started saying it right at the beginning of the day.

You're not convincing anyone because your case is terrible.

[Amrun]

Fonz, keep pushing through. I replaced in, too. You can do it.

[Amrun]

Yes. I'm just trying to encourage our replacements.

[Amrun]

Oh, you have got to be kidding me. That's the dumbest "case" I've ever seen.

bvoigt, that is scummiest backtrack ever.

[Amrun]

It's WRONG, though, and you'll see that it's wrong.

I've defended myself so much in this game that I just can't do it anymore.

I've fullclaimed already. There's not much else I can do.

When you replace into a game where the biggest wagon is on YOUR REPLACEMENT, you kind of have to say SOMETHING... In hindsight, I probably should not have tried to explain as much as I did, but it was the first time I had ever been in that situation.

Plus, I had information that no one else had -- though they now do -- that did partially exclaim what people were calling PI's "slip." She speculated on an Americans vs. Soviets set-up, which makes some sort of sense when you're looking at a Role PM that tells you you're McCarthy and TOWN. However, from the wincon, she should have realized... But as I said, English is clearly not her first language and she was... I don't know. Not paying attention or something I guess. She also had played in another Cold War game that was Americans vs. Soviets. That's the best sense I can make of it.

I've given my scum reads several times over. If I am about to be lynched (AGAIN), I will re-iterate and re-evaluate them, though, never fear.


Nacho, bvoigt was on my town list, but that post was BAD. I want him to explain it.

[Amrun]

Town that replace into a game where their slot is currently being lynched?

[Amrun]

Oh, and I ALSO scumhunted. I included reads as well.

[Amrun]

Why are you trying to bully people into voting who you want them to vote, VP Baltar?

He can make his own decisions.

[Amrun]

Man, this town is going to get even more trolled than it already is.

All I can say is that gonnano is totally scum.

I'm a little too busy for a more extensive post, but it will happen before deadline as long as I'm not quicklynched unexpectedly.

[Amrun]

I wonder what this town will do when I flip.

I honestly can't wait, as it's inevitable.

But of course I push to live. We should not be mislynching again.

[Amrun]

Beasts of the Sea - strong town : he doesn't post a lot but I like his posts when he does.

Debonair Danny DiPietro - if he replaced Ipie, then slight town

EGL- slight scum

Feysal- strong town; his cases are solid, but he needs to come back around

DavidParker- kind of confused on him, so let's go with slight scum

LynchMePls- slight town. He's too bold for scum, I think

ThAdmiral- slight town bc I used to think he was scummy but I feel town lately

VP Baltar- not sure. Who did he replace again?

Furcolow- who the hell knows. I used to think town, but now slight scum for lying.

Lowell- null I guess for active lurking, but apparently it's his meta

XScorpion- slight scum for tunneling, not sure it is town tunneling. Could be.

smargaret- strong scum for coasting, misrepping, distancing from self

Scott Brosius- slight scum for coasting

gonnano- strong scum. Not going to recap.

bvoigt- slight town. Used to be strong town except for a recent post.

Stephoscope- slight scum for coasting

nachomma8- strong town

The Fonz- slight town, slowly moving towards strong town

Sathrois- slight town

[Amrun]

At this point, if I'm lynched, I'll laugh.

This is what we say on another forum I play on:

"Townies gonna town."


Ask me some sort of question and I'll answer it, but other than that I wash my hands of this.

I can't believe gonnano will live again.

[Amrun]

DDD, Feysal's case does not rest on flavor... He's been calling Furc scum since long before Furc claimed.

Misrep much?

[Amrun]

And that just throws all of his old postings out the window?

Think what you will of Feysal, I just couldn't let that misrep stand.

[Amrun]

Addendum to list: since VP Baltar replaced Artem, slight town.

Artem's play said town to me. Artem's bail did not.

[Amrun]

bvoigt: I think his play is too bold for scum. I believe his vig claim, as indicated by the off-night vig already dead.

We'll see if I'm right.

Prepare to be trolled, town.

Au revoir.

[Amrun]

Nice job Fonz, and good game, everyone. Thanks for taking over when CML flaked, Sotty.

This game lasted, what, four months, and I know I lost interest a couple of times. But I think my reads were decent. Sorry for killing you, Nacho, but it looked like you were softclaiming vig.

What's the point of a blacklister in this setup? Especially as a town role, it doesn't seem to do much.

It was pretty hard to convince people that claim was town.

Good game all, especially Fonz.

[Amrun]

BotS was totally lurking.

[Amrun]

So all the town were chasing their tails and witchhunting me because of Poison Ivy (mostly). Oh joy.

And what did I have to appease them? "I'm McCarthy, town blacklister." Lol.

[Amrun]

Peregrine was the ONLY one to call BotS, iirc.