Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[MagnaofIllusion]

/confirm

I'd guess that Reaper hasn't left a fucking hole the size of Chicago in his set-up that would allow breaking Day 1 but feel free to test that theory.

Then hang Wraith.

[MagnaofIllusion]

wasnt I recently just "caught" for making this same mistake?

Actually you were. The fact that others argued it was just an honest mistake doesn't eliminate the fact that you slipped as Mafia in Cyclic.

VOTE: Wraith

The dynamics of one vote / day definately will change how scum-hunting is done in later days. It's going to be fairly impossible to do anything related to V/CA unless Reaper is a kind Overlord and regularly tracks "Votes"

I suppose now we wait to see what dead body drops from the sky ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

that was that game...this is a completely different game, your thoughts on DGB's comment?

Since the alignments of all players are explicitly stated on the Wiki page it looks like DGB ‘pretending’ not to pay attention. Null.

--

The last one in particular, about watching which dead bodies is overly fluffy for communication, and almost sounds as if he is prepared to be around for the next day to plan our next course of action after the bodies have dropped.

You do understand I said BODY singular not plural in reference to the Day Serial Killer we have in this game, correct? Because we will get a flip (barring a stupid Serial Killer which I would welcome) before the first lynch and thus can use that for relational tells.

The Vote system is also silly because it is a simple way to control player's striking. I have now made it so that more people will either strike me or Magna if we are going to make it through this day with a "lynch," otherwise we all now have a wasted strike on a player.

1. Did you read the rule and comprehend how striking works?
2. You feel strongly enough either set up a 1 v 1 with me based on tone Day 1 or waste your strike for the day?

--

Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike. I'm of the thought that we should thoroughly discuss strikes before placing them, almost as if it were lylo-ish

Post attempting to sound Town but showing no Town intent. Scumtastic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why are you interacting with the maggot?

The reason I interact with all my suspects – to determine his alignment. I’m certainly not going to give him the “stupid Town” get-out-of-jail free card like Friend. If he’s scum (which he is BTW) I want it out in the open now.

--

I am 100% clear on how striking works, and I fully intended to strike the first negative gut feeling I had before the game even started.

Ok, so you knew what you were doing and simply threw an immediate strike at the first gut twinge you got.

You are scum then. Thanks for making it easy. Making the “Scumwould never act so rash” move when in fact Scum can feel free to act wildly while Town has to carefully manage its resources was not a good move.

--

Hrez

in 97 continues to dance away from taking stances and indulge in pointless mechanics speculation (SK can’t no-kill) as opposed to scum-hunt.

If I were forced to put a vote down, it'd be on MoI for his parroting of questions already asked, it gave him an inflated post to seem like content but didn't say anything.

Support your position. Which post in question is parroting? Further define how in the first pages of a large theme can 'padding' post count even be a valid scum-tell when some players have posted ZERO content.

--

Here's a question: Why does opposing a gamebreaking strategy have to be pro-scum? Why can't it be pro-sportsmanship?

Here’s a counter question – what about a game-breaking strategy is anti-Sportsmanship? Scum, site-wide, have a statistical advantage over Town. It’s not cheating to use whatever legal means Town has to root out the scum.

Furthermore it was clear as Day that a mass-break would not work (as I said in my first post) so your objection looks much more like fake Town puffery than anything else.

--

He asked for the alignment of someone who was a citizen. I know from my pm that it is fairly bleedingly obvious what alignment a citizen is.

Yet the nature of all alignments and flip colors are shown clearly on the Wiki page for this game. So how is it a tell when everyone, including scum, have full access to that information?

--

2. TOOGELOO'S STRIKE WAS NOT IN THE RIGHT FUCKING SYNTAX. HE DIDN'T BURN HIS STRIKE.

Now that your all-caps Rage statement has been proven dead wrong what are your opinions on Toog’s strike and reasoning for it.

--

I think Toogeloo's strike wasn't scummy. Acting impulsively is a null-tell.

But now that he admits it was premeditated are you still going to defend Toog? Nevermind I can see you are at 130.

Calling Friend – Toog linkage of some sorts as of this post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll keep this brief ...

UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: Hrezs

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, where did I say Toog was definitively stupid town, or that I even had a town read on him? I just think the strike is a complete null-tell.

But it's not Null. I've explained in detail when addressing Toog.

Town votes are not the normal, unlimited variety. Under normal Town conditions Town players can be free to fling them around putting suspicion where they see fit. Throwing caution to the wind in normal circumstances can be a Townie activity.

Here Town strikes are a limited resource. To actually achieve a lynch (which Town never should give up Day 1) we need 60% of the strikes focused on one player.

Toog specifically said he understood the mechanic and threw some pure bullshit down about votes being manipulated by Scum. Striking out in random fashion only helps assure that we don't get a lynch today.

TL : DR

- Toog's stance and action show a CLEAR scum motivation and don't show any possible Town motivation. He's scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And your other post which is

hyper inflated with quotes and questions that had already been asked and pointed out

. The latter was the one I was referencing (quoted in parts below)

Bolded – so you are arguing that my natural posting style is inherently scummy? Noted. Moving on to your actual comments.

Says nothing

Bzzt. It says that attacking someone on grounds of ‘not knowing the Town win condition’ is pointless since said win condition is public knowledge via the Game Wiki page.

Toog gives (some) justification for his strike. You defend yourself by arguing a word you said, which is not what his point was at all.

I defend his misrepresentation that I wanted to wait til Day 2 to take action by pointing out he was clearly wrong. That scummy?

So you see justification for his strike? Please directly answer this question .. I’m very curious. Especially since your first post after the strike you said this

Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike. I'm of the thought that we should thoroughly discuss strikes before placing them, almost as if it were lylo-ish

If you saw justification in the strike why were you immediately tempted to strike him?

Cognitive Dissonance on display here I believe

Questions, one of which had been asked by several people(parroting) and another somewhat challenging him to argue with you

And you do understand Mafia is a game of interrogating your suspects, right? I’m going to grill those people I think are scum. You don’t like it? Not my problem.

Then after this, you decide to quote me and say that I'm scumtastic(a point that someone else had made, so you're parroting) but not vote me. Something you decided to do later when my lynch has started to pick up steam and it won't seem terrible for you to put your vote down.

So once a point is made no-one is ever allowed to state a similar sentiment for fear of being hit with a Wiki-tell? Yeah, I’ll express my thoughts as a I please.

And I’m obligated to immediately switch my vote when someone makes scummy statement?

If so why didn’t you vote for me immediately when you said I was scummy? Waiting for signs of support?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hresz is trying REALLY hard to find someone he can attack. Looks a lot like scum-flailing to me.

I tend to agree.

I also find it funny he chose me. Bad mistake for scum to a make

[MagnaofIllusion]

2) yes (I thought I made that clear)

You know what is missing right after this post?

An actual vote for me.

Which should be there if you actually believed what you just wrote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can't see the benefit of ending this day early(besides the outside chance of stopping an sk kill)
which would come at the loss of a roleblock and a lot of content

We can't get a roleblock and lynch today - it is statistically impossible.

We need 15 to lynch
We need 10 to role-block.

We have 24 strikes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmmmm ... Exe if I do recall you have a meta of getting angry when being caught for stupid reasons (in your opinion), no?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not to defend Hrezs,

but I find this quote hilariously hypocritical.

Bolded for emphasis … you seem to be spending as much time defending players as you do scum-hunting (even if you say you aren’t). Why is that?

--

NO COMMENT
ABR

Um, whut?

--

Baby Spice’s 214

manages only to comment on Toog and Hrezs. Any thoughts on those who accused Toog of Scum-intent?

--

In fact points out that others (such as exe) have been contributing just as little as hrezs. Still keeps vote on hrezs.

I see not one comment about Hrezs in your ISO. What do you think of him?

--

@Wraith

– Why specifically go out of your way to be all cutesy with your programing style post when (as responses have shown) all it did was obsfucate your points?

--

That's not how I read it, but ok.

Admission that my original comment was not emptly fluff. Check.

His justification(the way that I interpretted it) was your demeanor. The way you approached the vote and your confidence, all of which were as if you felt like you had some sort of backing and knew you weren't going to get lynched.

1. Demeanor? You find my confidence in my natural abilities is a scum tell? Yeah, that's horrible
2. I see the assertion that I know I’m not getting lynched means I’m scum. Please explain in more detail. If I am scum I either would be a Serial Killer (with no backing) or a Mafia member (with only two votes guaranteed to be on my side). How, with 24 players alive, could you possibly come to the conclusion that I felt safe because I have backing?
3. I see you dropped the point of your argument where you were attempting to say that my correction of Toog is scummy. Check.

Just because there's justification doesn't make it an idiotic move. I wasn't going to strike him(as I've said before, and tried to display in the second half of my post)

If you never intended to strike him based on his strike why include that in your post at all? I know why – you wanted to look ‘Townie’ by showing your outrage.

Interogating your suspects is one thing, parroting and worthless questions accomplish nothing. You weren't going to get any information out of those questions, so I have to assume you are asking them to make it seem like you were doing something constructive.

I really don’t care if you think the questions are worthless.

Please continue to attack me with generic Wiki-tells that have nothing to do with scum intent. It further illustrates how you are reaching in your ‘scum-hunting’.

2) Obviously not. However when nothing changes, a lynch begins to pick a steam and then you jump on it, it's easily a sign of bandwagoning.

To put it bluntly … so what. Band-wagonning isn’t a scum-tell and I’m certainly not mindlessly bandwagonning you.

3)I don't vote very often(as I said before). When I vote I like it to be a person I'm incredibly comfortable with lynching. I feel my posts should have enough of my sentiment in them that my vote would change nothing.

You are afraid to place a Vote in this game where they mean nothing until you are ‘incredibly comfortable’ with lynching?

Oh look … more posts saying explicitly I am likely scum but no symbolic vote.

It’s Ok Hrezs … I’ve seen caught scum flail worse than you are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI

You pretty pointedly asked for my thoughts on something... then ignored them.

I didn't ignore them but at this juncture I don't think arguing with you on it is productive. We have different views on the potential Town / Scum intent of Toog's play. I'd rather continue to hang scum (Hrezs, Wraith, others as they make themselves Obv) than argue with you when you are a Town read for me.

Thanks for answer ... I guess I should have said that in the first place ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, other people have noticed Exe.

[insert case against Exe]

This comes off to me as you trying to shift attention off yourself to Exe.

Very true ... but what happened to your anti-Babblefish program speak?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I found him scummy at the start for his non-committal posting, but since then he's done nothing but try to defend himself, so I am not confident in being able to get a read on him.

Um, whut?

1. You initially found him scummy for non-committal posting.
2. Since then he’s done nothing but play defense.
3. This leads you to a conclusion of Null?

Unless you are saying solely playing defense is a Town tell (and I would like to see you confirm this if so) then I don’t understand this thought process at all.

Note for future reference

– ThAd’s ‘theory’ on wagons leads me to believe that he might well be aligned with Hrezs (Skull Crusher, Night Rider or Inner Circle).

--

Thanks. Count me in on Hresz.

Then why no vote?

--

MoI: If anything seems a little too calm about the strike.

What would you expect a Town reaction to be then? Flipping out?

--

ODM’s 275

is active lurking at its finest - Commenting at some depth simply on non-game related issues from pages 1 to 3 while saying “I will have a full post tomorrow”

@ODM

– Since you are a hydra one head having a insance week is no excuse for low activity.

--

CKD should be lynched after Hresz. That was literally one of the worst posts this game.

It hardly qualifies as anywhere close to the worst post of the game. Other than attacking you why is it bad?

--

I was just thinking of this myself, until I remember I just saw her as an SK that was very outspoken….so meh.

Didn't you tell me that this is a different game earlier?

In Cyclical there were two factions with kills. Here there are four.
In Cyclical the SK had one shot of NK immunity. Here according to the Wiki both are not immune to NKs.

Why so quick to assume DGB isn’t a SK here (based on the game differences) or regular scum?

--

2) Overconfidence is a scumtell in my book. Just because it's illogical for you to act the way you did does not mean you didn't do it.
3) Your correction was scummy. You misrepped his post to make it seem as if he said nothing.

2. You need a new book. I look forward to the day you play with Fate or Benmage …
3. Um what? Showing specifically how he mis-repped my post isn’t mis-repping his.

I forgot that sharing your feelings was a scumtell.

Nice soft attempt to be dismissive while avoiding the issue. It’s scummy because you purposefully put in extraneous information (you later said you never intended to strike Toog) with the sole purpose of showing ‘Town outrage’.

Still not sure what wiki-tells are.

Wiki-tells are what bad players or bad scum use. They run to the wiki, find something listed as a Tell, and use it regardless of how inaccurate or incorrect their implementation is.

Band-wagonning is a scum tell. "Hey, this guy is an easy lynch, I'll just go with that."

1. No, it’s not a scum tell.
2. I’m clearly not simply voting for you because others are
3. Calling yourself an easy lynch? Scumtastic.

I have already said we should treat votes as if they were real. They are not meaningless unless we choose to make them meaningless. Its odd that you're saying they're nothing then painting me in a bad light for not using one. Why is that?

I’m highlighting that your complete unwillingness to actually vote someone you repeatedly say is scum shows non-Town motivated play. Until that vote is converted into a strike it is meaningless beyond the potential for VC analysis. Which you seem to be hoping to avoid by refusing to vote under cover of “It’s my playstyle”. What was it you said about playstyles earlier?

I don't know your posting style, and it doesn't matter to me as I'm not going to write someone off 'because it's their style'.

Replace the first posting with voting and this is a beautiful example of hypocricy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA this weekend due to a very hectic schedule. I will be back Monday

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear god – what the hell have you people been doing since was last able to log on?

DGB

– If you actually are VT you completely wasted your slot acting all disinterested and useless. If you were trying to draw a Nightkill you threw it away by self-striking. If you hate ABR so much you should have replaced out. Especially when you self-struck with only two strikes on you.

At this point best action is to complete the strikes and pre-empt the Daykill.

/Strike: DGB

--

The following players have done zero scum-hunting via active lurking or real lurking and should die in a fire quickly – Untrod, Kise, ODM, and Toog.

--

The quickness of the votes on DGB and the strike against her makes me raise an eyebrow.
No one posted a case on her or anything an two votes followed ABR. If a case had been posted previously then I would understand why people would be following ABR as he does make a point, but that is not the case.
For now:
Vote: DGB

Dear God this is bad

1. ABR put a ‘case’ based on meta in the lengthy post where he struck DGB.
2. You question everything about the Strike wagon but then vote DGB? Look - scum who wants lay the groundwork to jump on the strike wagon if it takes off but get credit for calling out how bad it is if it fizzles.

--

Nope. You're town.

You just look, sound and smell like scum.

Yeah, that’s scumtastic. Thanks for clearing up any confusion I had ABR.

--

LLD and StrangerCoug’s little spat when he replaced in has all the earmarks of weak distancing.

--

Then we've locked the turncoat scum into a claim early at the very least, yeah?

So what? The way the Inner Circle appears to work, if you looked at the demo Reaper Pmed pre-game, is that the Town Inner Circle member could be any Town role (Vanilla or Not). So locking them into a claim does nothing to root them out. At best it diverts the Inner Circle BP vest to that player if they have a good Town role.

--

Can't decide on Exe vs. Friend right now. MagnaofIllusion interrupting at #232 stands out, though—do you have links to games where Exe acted like this as scum?

Please direct your attention to the recently ended Cult Versus Masons mini. Read Exe’s comments on Days 1 and 2 when he got bandwagonned and after his lynch.

--

3. He pluralized a word, and according to you, that was enough for you to dismiss his case.

No, that’s wrong. He suggested that the statement I made where I said we would be waiting of the Dayvig to use flip information was meant to say that I wanted to wait until Day 2 to begin scum-hunting. That was a Mis-rep and I pointed it out as such.

2. You had reasoning, but no vote. Then others started to vote me, so you decided to jump onto it. Sounds like you're voting me because others were.

I only have one vote. Again, your continued play that was more and more scummy warranted moving it. You are trying to suggest that everytime someone finds scummy behavior they must immediately move their vote or be scummily bandwagoning if others happen to be voting the same player. That’s a bad argument.

That's fine, but at this point I will probably skip the vote stage and just strike someone I feel is scum and is a possible lynch target.

So you acknowledge your goal is to minimize your ‘vote’ trail? Good to know you are upfront about your scummy play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm trying to AVOID the NK, it gets boring after a while, never seeing anything close to end game. I spend most of my games in dead QTs.

You aren't the only one who is in this boat ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

I know... your days are numbered my dear Magna...

That's why your reaction makes no sense.

You simply could have called ABR's case what it was - a selective meta attack - and ignored it. But instead you threw in the Towel immediately and assured you were not a Night 1 kill victim simply by being beaten to death.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lol, 1 lurking scum down ….

--

Togeloo asked you to post content. You blatantly ignored him.

So says the person yelling at everyone to

IGNORE

Toog. The irony of using Toog to support your postion on DGB makes me chuckle.

--

@MoI: I am calling those who vote DGB before any actual reason was posted scummy.

Then you did it in the most awkward way possible. What you stated doesn't read clearly in that way at all, at least to me.

BUT I DO AGREE WITH ABR. I agree with his case. I read his case. Just because his case was based on meta, does not exclude it from been a case.

His case was posted with his strike. The case you agree with now. You said you hadn’t seen a case yet in the previous post. Which is it?

Wouldn't it be what your saying if I FOS DGB instead of voting him?

In this game Votes are FOSes since Strikes are what matters. Thanks for agreeing with my point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Hrezs

I’m not sure exactly why he got off the hook yesterday. Same reasoning stands today.

--

ABR, I know that DGB basically asked to be killed yesterday, but I think that we need to look at some of these guys whonjumped on to the death wagon.

Namely, Friend. His post yesterday where he struck DGB was terribad scum posting.

Who else on the list is scum? There’s got to be more than just 1 scum there.

Why isn’t Hrezs still scum? You clearly stated he was yesterday yet today not a peep about him? Especially given the word Friend didn’t appear in your ISO at all yesterday.

--

@ThAd

– Please address your thoughts on your ‘Second Wagon’ theory in light of yesterday’s outcome.

--

I disagree that stopping at the roleblock point and then roleblocking someone else too (that is, no lynching) is a good move. Toogeloo, camn, and ThAdmiral voiced support for this, and it unnerves me.

Get out of my head Magua

Agreed. After Hrezs is dealt with we can move on to a closer look at this group.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So do you think it is more likely that they hit BP or a 3rd possibility?

Let's think shall we?

Reasons why kills may be missing -

1. Targetted Inner Circle BP Vest.
2. Godfather role was Jailkept, preventing the kill.
3. Target was Jailkept, preventing the kill
4. Target was Mediced, preventing the kill.
5. Scum chose to no-kill based to prevent a vote-roleblock when said roleblock is more likely to hit Town or other scum than themselves.

Hell I might be missing some. But you immediately leap to the No-kill conclusion and bypass 2 to 4 completely when there are multiple Security Guards and Medics is just plain stupid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hzres: I like Moi.

Why? The entirety of your comments regarding me are as follows –

But MoI.. SCUMPING#3(post91) Do not like. Toog is old news!

We GET IT Moi! You are better than this. YOu too Friend. you should be ignoreing like ABR told you too.

294 is the Moi i know! as Scum!

Nothing in this selection of quotes is indicates you have a positive impression of my play.

--

I forgot to let my hydra buddy know that I would be V/LA for at least a week and he was unable to keep up as he didn't expect to have to do it on his own. I take full responsibility and am sorry to have to do this, but in order to not further hinder this slot, I am going to replace out.

So your partner was unable to keep up with the thread while most every other single player was? Not buying it.

--

Another note - the second target was supposed to come from the people who had abstained from the original wagon, but was instead decided upon by ABR, who was a proponent of the original wagon.

That makes no sense. Your original theory was that scum are more likely to bandwagon so that the first wagon of the day would be scum-driven. So logically the second target should have come from the wagonners not those who abstained.

It looks more like a Hrezs distraction technique to more you explain it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Responding to Prod.

Life has fucked me over the last 48 hours or so. Will get content up later today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's weird how he and Bunnylover decided to completely drop each other after yesterday.

And it’s weird that many people (LLD, for example) completely dropped Hrezs coming into Day 2 before his claim. Yet you don’t seem very troubled by that.

--

I am a (the?) security officer. Wiki says there are multiple but when running the simulation I would only see one

at times.

Did not use a night action as I am limited use.

1) After looking at the simulation again, I got it confused with the mixmaster, a role that is completely unmemorable to me for some reason.
2) When I got my role, and just now to go look what mixmaster did

So you are saying you got your role-PM and somehow got it mixed up with the Mixmaster when you looked at the simulation? I’m not buying that.

The only reason I’m moving my vote is because you mentioned having limited uses and reviewing the Wiki and simulation the language suggests this is a realistic possibility without specifically mentioning it.

Hrezs

--

I'm reading this as: "There's lots of scum and this game is complicated. Let's not lynch anyone and hope the scum win this game for town." Please show me what I'm missing.

You effectively aren’t missing anything. She was advocating no-lynching Day 1 to ‘double block’.

--

@ everyone: kagelord or friend - pick a side.

Creating a false dichotomy that

A. They are the only acceptable lynches
B. They can’t be both scum

Is scumtastic

--

1. 2/3 of those have been justified (MoI already was by the time you made this post

Um, whut? You’ve justified your suspicion of me which amount to “I’m not dead’? Please point me in the direction of that post.

--

@AGM: I'm sorry you didn't see any content from me in the first day. Got caught up in one too many games. I am however, confident today that FRIEND IS SCUM.

As confident as you were that Hrezs was scum yesterday? Yeah, what happened to that suspicion again?

--

I think that the people who pushed for Hrezs yesterday and are pushing on Kage today might be worth comparing to the strikes against DGB yesterday. The most opportunistic for all 3 is more than likely scum.

Toog is scum? Absolutely. Why you ask? This post clearly shows why. He’s presented what he feels is a logical way to hunt for scum in this environment. The formula?

1. Look at those who pushed Hrezs.
2. Cross-reference to those pushing Kagelord today.
3. Re-cross-reference with those that struck DGB.
4. Hang resulting found scum.

But does he do this? Nope.

He’s more interested in looking town than actually hunting said scum down. Oh wait, wasn’t that the increadibly scummy thing he was just accusing someone else of doing?

Kill it with Fire!

Toog


--

Oooh, ABR?!?

Hey CKD – appealing to ABR isn’t going to make your unexplained reads any more credible. I’d ask you to provide reasons but I’m not going to. You will be easier to lynch when your continued play reads just like Cyclical Experiment. Continue your standard scum operating procedure.

[ use the preview button next time, eh? - rc ]

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - can you fix my botched quotes above? Thanks!!!

Stupid mis-click ...

[ rectified - rc ]

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dear god another Day where ABR starts the strike-fest out of the blue and people begin jumping on left and right with little reason. Only today ThAd opportunistically jumps with a counter-wagon strike.

I’m holding my strike for the moment as I want to make sure we make the right decision. I’d much prefer ThAd or Toog be beaten to the death today over either of those with 3 strikes.

UNVOTE: Hrezs
VOTE: ThAd

Since we have already breached a number of strikes I’d much prefer for people to continue to use votes to cast their suspicions. We still have the chance to make sure we have a kill everyone just doesn’t ‘settle’ for.

--

I meant to get around to this... I just got sidetracked. Now I've kind of lost motivation to do it. Maybe later.

You lost your motivation to scum-hunt? I understand … it’s difficult to pretend to scum-hunt even in a multi-faction game.

Toog is Scum … no need for further discussion.

--

I propose an open-target-claiming system, combined with dual town roleblocks for retrospective analysis.

I think there has been plenty of reasons professed as to why this isn’t a fantastic idea so I’ll just add my two cents.

Going with this plan sacrifices Town’s ability to kill. We have no Vigs. You can’t rely on scum to kill of each other necessarily via cross-kills. It certainly can happen but counting on it this early in the game is too big on the Risk / Reward scale for my tastes.

That said later in the game after a possible mass-claim this could be a very workable way to PoE the Mafia scum into oblivion.

--

Lady Lambda is scummish but for the fact that her friend case is carrying over from yesterday, which traditionally would be a good sign . . . wheedling with ABR over the friend and ThAd cases is pushing it, though.

What about her strong suspicion of Hrezs that magically vanished overnight? What do you think about that?

--

/strike: kagelord

Competing strike wagons ftw.

Self fucking preservation FTL.

Hey look I’m ThAd!! People are suspecting my play. What should I do? I know … immediately form a Counterwagon that assures there is zero chance a succesfull Kill / Block action by Town hits anyone but KK or Kagelord.

--

/strike: ThAdmiral
PEdit: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ThAdmiral

Why on God’s Green Earth would you leave that strike in the post when there is even the slightest chance that Reaper will ignore the strike-through and count it as a valid strike?

If he does it assures we have NO shot at the possible Kill / Block combo

[MagnaofIllusion]

What's with voting if this is how the days are gonna go anyways?

Because just having some people happy to jump the gun and start winging fists doesn’t mean that everyone has to leave their brain at the door. Using the likely 20 person end-of-day populace to get a Block and Lynch, for example, will take coordination.

I notice your still more or less are abdicating scum-hunting in favour of one-liners.

ATTENTION DAY-SK

– Toog is an excellent shot if you are looking to kill scum.

--

ABR started it...

So his making a stupid early strike excuses yours also?

--

THAT SAID, I'm not sure that it is better to get both a block and strike if it means scummy players like ThAd and others get a free pass for today. I think there's a reasonable enough chance of at least one of them being scum, that we'll learn something (we also learn some about the crazy premature strikers). I'll go along if majority of players want to do it. If not, the ThAd wagon looks best of the three.

Agreed.

--

@MOI: I love high Risk:Reward. It is where I am my best.

It’s great that you love it. That doesn’t make it a good move for Town as a whole just because you thrive in the environment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Seeing the summary I feel there is enough support for a ThAd wagon that I don't regret the following -

/strike - ThAdmiral

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point I’m going to slot Camn into scum as well. 814 is so fluffy it deserves to be in the Pillow Hall of Fame. Add in 880 which effectively says that the true Town way to play is to remove ALL possibility of a Town driven kill by no-lynching. Scumtastic.

Also LLD’s 858 is so non-sensical that I have no idea what to make of it. Fear-mongering done that badly is not something I would expect from a player of LLD’s caliber.

--

My first post of tomorrow will be striking one of these five.

If you are proactively going to plan to be stupid …

I don’t even ..

--

@ camn: and why no strike on me if you gave strangercoug the "all clear"?

“Make everyone justify their suspicion” Scum-tell spotted with a nice side-dish of not paying attention. This wagon is a good one.

--

Anyway, Lambda is sincere enough that she's not a scum worry of mine at this point. By a long shot. Camn is Townish as well

If any of the three of LLD, Camn and Plum flip scum I’d suggest looking very closely at the other two for her possible partners.

--

This theory (shoving onto ThAdmiral is done by mafia) only works if both KageLord and Kublai Khan are partners (which I don't think is true).

Given that any particular Scum member has AT MOST 5 other players willing to defend him (his 3 other Scum teammates and 2 Inner Circle members) I find it hard to believe in any concerted scum effort to derail two wagons simultaneously.

[MagnaofIllusion]

CKD is an easy read as scum. I’m hardly surprised he flipped Mafia at all.

VOTE: Camn. Nothing has changed from yesterday.

Toog (more complete lack of scum-hunting), LLD (gut based on her posts), KK (see below)

--

AGM and CKD flipping scum means that it is very likely that the players they were pushing for to die are not of their faction. Yes, I’m ruling out bussing at this stage. With a Daykiller, possible cross-kills and a protective Town PR contingents floating about there is little reason to actively go after one of your own, even if they are the possibly the Inner Circle mole.

Those AGM was pressing (unlikely Night Riders)

– Wraith, Kagelord, Hrezs, LLD,

Those CKD was pressing (unlikely Skull Crushers)

- Exe, ODM (now Kast ), Kagelord, MoI

Low and behold we have a commonality – Kagelord. Any going after him in the immediate future is claiming scum. He possibly is the DayKiller or the Town Inner Circle but he’s not SK or NR.

--

When I started playing here the first time, I learned a tell from Amished.
When people express similar ideas really quickly like those three quotes, then chances are there's scum there

Lulz. Your tell is that scum actively seek to post similar ideas in rapid succession so as to be easily identifiable?

Insert face-palm pic here …

--

Cause Bussing isn't possible right?

Are you going to argue it is likely? Please make that coherent argument because I don’t see it as happening early in this game at all given what we know about the set-up.

--

I like AGar as curiouskarmadog's scummate.

Hello scum. He’s been dead for over a Day. What did you do, take a quick spin at CKD’s ISO and grab the first name you felt he was defending?

I'm kicking myself for not striking you yesterday instead of scummy but town ThAd.

--

(I'm wondering if the DSK's kill is limited...e.g. can only be submitted after x strikes placed or after a player is at L-1 strikes,...)

More likely mechanic is that the Day-killer’s action can be submitted to go off at a time of their choosing … such as when a player reaches L-1. Just my gut on the subject.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good god ... Day 3 and neither of you have learned to be actually useful in your striking ...

Honestly I think Toog needs to hang. I've had a continuing scum-read on him and his whole sthick today of

"I'm a rebel"

is crap. Of course it needs to be nipped in the bud, moron. Sadly you take no personal responsability for not doing it.

That said I'm not comitting to a strike in under 48 hours of the thread opening. That's moronic.

Perhaps hearing form everyone might be a good idea ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, Toog, ABR. Pretty bloody obvious IC bussing going on.

Yeah, we are clearly bussing. Oh wait, aren’t you the one who said that the loss of one IC player means the whole faction loses? Then why in the hell would the IC faction immediately Day 3 have two of its members strike each other, likely limiting the options for a lynch today to them.

Pro-Tip – it doesn’t make any sense.

The rest of your ‘deductive reasoning’ just is sad. Just go quietly to the gallows, scum.

Tell me, who would be in favor of a Baby Spice lynch?

Right here, absolutely.

/strike – BabySpice

--

This is a scum-heavy game. Sometimes not lynching is an acceptable alternative.

Is your thinking here to let the scum cross-kill each other and have the Scum and Inner Circle out each other for an easy Town victory?

--

Good. Everyone choose. Toog or Moi.
Case to follow. Must go to happy hour.

STRIKE : MAGNAOFILLUSION

Thanks for claiming scum camn. False dichotomy FTL. That’s two scum I’ve picked correctly. I’m guessing, based on your little cute early comment, that you are actually a Skull Crusher because WIFOM BOMB – who would claim that in their early posts?

One of the two is fine.
I wanna see which one people choose.

Amazing that two hours later you have time to post but no time for a case.

Scum scum scummity scum!

Ps. Right now the mafia all know who the IC is on their own team.
So they need to get them lynched.
And the IC-scum need to get their scumpartner lynched. Because they know that they know now, so they can't use the cross-kill again.

How do you know this is certain again? Oh that’s right .. .you have inside information

ATTENTION DAYKILLER – CAMN IS A GREAT TARGET TODAY!!!

--

Here is where the "Must Strike" mentality fucks with town.

Who folds and decides to just strike those already struck? Does scum hunting end... etc.. etc... etc....

So you cast the first strike and then complain about the lack of scum-hunting when you have done NONE yourself?

Lulz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I am scum, and well I'm not. But if I was, and I was seriously calling someone confirmed IC, wouldn't you think maybe they really have identified the IC via QT stuff.

Lulz. Scum-claim.

KILL IT WITH FIRE

… and more strikes.

It may have been my logic and deduction, but logic and deduction it was. Elementry stuff. I found the scum and now they are attacking me.

It was elementary logic – the kind I expect from my 1st Grade daughter.

1. Your logic for me being scum with AGM and Friend – you never bothered to address that absurdity of that ‘tell’ when it was pointed out.
2. Your logic for me being IC with Toog and ABR – you never bothered to address the absurdity of that based on your own statements.

That’s all the logic and deduction you’ve ‘done’. In both cases it was easily and clearly refuted.

All that is left is you running around screaming “Player X is confirmed scum”. And calling anyone who questions you scum.

I await your ‘elementary’ logical response with baited breath.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Preview edit. Oh and MoI, I'll await your apology

My apology for watching you, who just claimed scum, die? Don't hold your breath ... it is not happening.

Once you have flipped scum and I have not flipped IC I'll be waiting for yours ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

LLD versus StrangerCoug makes my head spin. Too much minor technicality jousting and little actual scum-hunting.

--

I don't generally try and talk logic with people I think are scum... and almost NEVER with people whose case consists of:

I love the manner in which you snipped out all the content related to why I think you are scum and focused on a single line. Very nice.

But I’ll summarize for you –

You’ve dithered between “Let’s No Lynch, its Pro-Town”, apparently hoping scum is going to kill themselves off since Town has no killing roles, and “Camn want’s blood” with nothing regarding reasoning or support for your positions the entire game. For example, you called for KK’s ‘blood’ in going back to ‘classic Camn’ yet shortly afterwards called him Town and wanted someone else lynched. I don’t see your behavior as originating from anyone remotely connected to a Town win condition.

However, you did blow something off that I would like the TOWN to actually look at.
If you can show me a flaw in my logic, that would be great. I have flawed logic a lot It revolves around this:

Yes, I didn’t address it because it was clearly wrong. Others have already shown you how so I’ll just file this as another poor attempt to make me look scummy that backfired.

Now regarding your ‘case’

–

I have played with him once, iirc, and he was good. And scum.
My whole take on him hinges on the idea that it is easier to be good as TOWN than it is as scum. Thus, if he were town, he would be at least equaling, if not exceeding his level of play as scum.

Boggles my mind. On one hand your direct experience says I play very Townie as scum. On the other you don’t I’m playing Townie here so I must be scum. I’m not sure how I can make sense of this when your ‘meta’ argument contradicts itself.

So.. It is clear that Moi thinks Toog is scum. Is there a strike? no.
This is a wierd game, though.. is there a VOTE?? no. Not even a vote.

Fantastic way to ignore that Hrezs was my Number 1 scum-read Day 1 where I was voting up until DGB was the necessary strike. Cudos. Because in a game that started with 11 total scum I can have my one vote on them all at one time

Remember... Toog has 2 Strikes already! The momentum is to lynch him! I know this is after I struck.. but it applies! What does Moi do next?

Yeah, you are right. I shouldn’t have struck BabySpice who basically claimed scum in his first post of the day forward.

What say you? Is this a town-player? I think not.

A nice topping of rhetoric. Good work again.

--

The cross-striking over-shadowed it all, but MagnaofIllusion is suddenly calling me scum despite zero comment on me yesterday and choosing ThAdmiral over me. (Plum and Albert B. Rampage were consistent)

1. I clearly was wrong in my ThAd read. My guess is that one of the three of you (based purely on numbers of scum in the game and other factors) is very likely scum. I don’t see Kage as scum other than the Daykiller (and I noticed you try to nicely undermine that logic, good work). Thus you.
2. So you aren’t going to address that you suspicion today of AGar isn’t very suspect considering he was dead for 48 game hours when you posted that vote?
3. Am I not allowed to develop new suspicions as the game develops and people make scummy plays? I can dig up quotes from you suggesting that’s Town play if you want to dispute it.

--

My main scummy on Friend was the reasonless DGB strike, and the reasonless Wraith vote. (With AGM's following vote)
The lurkiness didn't help of course. But with Friend flaking, his reasonless/scummy strike/vote could just be bad play or lurkiness.

Really? Seems to me your main case was that he posted back to back to back with myself and AGM and we are all scum together. You know, that point you threw an 'Appeal to Authority' on ( I learned from Amished) and then have ignored after being called on to support it.

Why the backpedalling? Realize you got caught overextending your ‘reads’ and are now trying to cover?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just a quick note -

Unless all 7 remaining who have yet to strike choose either Toog or BabySpice we have no lynch today. Consider this when looking at interactions after we see what goes down.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good, now that BabySpice has outright claimed I can stop pretending. For those of you who didn’t pick up on it I struck BabySpice because he’s IC.

Yes AGM was my scum buddy. So is MoI.
Due to attitudes by both of the above, myself and #4 stopped posting in the QT in night 1. Neither of us posted in N2.
N2 however was dominated by MoI pushing for a CKD night kill. N1 MoI framed CKD. Hell, MoI bullied AGM into a last minute change of target to CKD.

Nice way to attempt to explain the situation in a manner that makes you the victim.

Now let’s hear the facts.

N1 in the QT AGM, myself and the last member of the team pegged BabySpice as the IC. He spent most of his time fishing for information on who AGM wanted to kill as opposed to discussing strategy. After being called out Baby stopped posting in the QT and fled to the IC QT.

N1 AGM and I also devised a kill two plans as follows

1. We would attempt to kill those who were most suspicious of us as a whole. WIFOM be damned in a multi scum environment it is good play.
2. We would be imposing a complete ban on bussing. With two other killing factions to scum hunt it made zero sense.

N2 BabySpice failed to post. Member 4 failed to post but it wasn’t because they were ‘disgusted with our behavior’. A direct quote from the QT from member 4 from N1 -

“Baby Spice is looking awfully moley.”

Your attempt to say that member 4 didn’t believe you were IC is laughable.

Back to the CKD kill suggestion – per our established policy he was pushing me as scum in thread and thus needed to die.

The kicker that clinches it for me? BabySpice has bussed both myself and the 4th Member at some point today. If she really believed IC she would never have had reason to mention the 4th member as scum AT ALL. Because rooting me out would still give the 4th member a fighting chance. But BabySpice didn’t do that . Instead she threw both of us under the bus.

So either BabySpice is the worst scum player ever or she’s IC. In either chance she’s sunk the Night Riders chances. I’m dead now and it will not take people long to figure out who the 4th Member is.

My guess is the BabySpice is going to be holding onto the Bulletproof vest the rest of the game as IC and the ICs are counting on it preventing lynches. We’ll see soon enough.

Reaper man I hate to say it but your set-up was so fucking borked from the get-go. A group of players who can out all the Mafia in thread if they choose? The only scum who have a chance to win are basically the Serial Killers.

Baby – if you aren’t IC I’m putting you on my black-list.

[MagnaofIllusion]

DAYKILLER! Strike scum again?
you know you want to.
You know he wont rest until you are dead.
Plus, you disrupt the whole IC team with one blow.

Lulz you are really bad at this game, aren't you.

The Daykiller has little to fear from me. BabyTraitor has outed me and I have no chance to live. Town will take care of me Tomorrow worst case.

D2 solidified that the Daykiller isn't stupid with the Nacho kill. I expect someone like Kast or Magua to take the blade today. The Daykiller has to be worried about volume at this point. And Town, with the ICs being able to out the entire scum teams as they go down, are the biggest thread to PoE him / her at this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Firstly: Look at the nightrider QT and tell me I was wrong.

You were wrong. Moving on ...

Good job Magua. You did well and deserve the Win and Noms and all those accolades. You are also correct that killing me was a stupid move. It's like you were working under a false assumption about how the game worked (hint ... you were).

Oh look, the IC could recruit when they lost a player. Yeah, they needed MORE help

This abominiation of a game is being struck from my Wiki. My posts in the Dead QT stand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, I've considered blacklisting them [both, all], but I'm not sure how positive of an effect it would have.

You are considering blacklisting players who acted on your horrible modding in a manner that made sense?

Please blacklist me. Now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You were perfectly content with Blackest Night Mafia (which was clearly more bastardly than this, by any and all standards), and why was that? Let's see... Because you won. And now that you've lost due to other players' stupid decisions, you're taking it out on the mod. Because it's the popular thing to do, when that mod happens to be me. That is another story in and of itself.

1. Stop trying to do any sort of comparison to Blackest Night Mafia. This game is completely independent of that and your constantly harping on it isn’t relevant.
2. The reason I unhappy has NOTHING to do with the outcome of the game. You pretend people are tied up in statistics. Pro-Tip … I’m not. I’m pissed as hell because your actions of as a GM were absolutely deceitful.

But since I generally respect your opinion (and if you are gonna be reasonable), then answer me these questions:

1. What was "horrible" about my actual modding? (Besides the error I made on the wiki?)

You are once again showing your complete inability to comprehend the problem with what you did. Making a wiki error is NOT horrible modding. Let’s set the record clear. What was horrible modding was your handling of said error. It was absolutely deceitful on your part. Sorry, it was. You can warble on about optimal play all you want – look at how the ICs played. They immediately began crafting ‘scum-reads’ on the non-IC scum. Hell, CKD shot AGM Night 2. Please don’t pretend they were not forcing the issue immediately.

I’ll again detail how you modding was deceitful so there is no confusion on the issue.

1. On March 28th you edited the Wiki to remove the tibit about the Inner Circle not all being required to be alive to win.
2. You did nothing to inform anyone other than the Inner Circle (I’m assuming, I didn’t bother wasting my time looking at the QT for them) when you made this change. Yes, you made a FUNDAMENTAL change to the facts any scum team member not an IC relied up to formulate strategy and didn’t tell everyone affected about it.
3. When your deceit was uncovered you proceed to tack a little tidbit in font smaller your normally used size in post size. This tidbit reminded players to check the rules and made cryptic reference to an error. This post was on April 18th. Almost 3 full weeks later.

Yes, you let all 6 non-IC scum play under false information about the IC faction who was clearly (in looking Post-game) working against them primarily at the very start of the game for three weeks. That’s not bad modding. That’s horrible modding and absolutely deceitful.

Milder secondary issues (which I could go on about but really don't care enough to bother) were the fact that your set-up was impossible to win for either normal Scum faction and that the IC faction didn’t flip properly while every other faction flipped with full information.

2. Did you like anything about the game?

The strike mechanic was well developed and should have been embraced. Unfortuanely some Town players (ABR, Toog) took it upon themselves to basically submarine scum-hunting efforts and optimal Town strike play.

The roles overall (IC excluded) were fairly well designed. I would only say that the DSK needed to be toned down given his huge advantage over the NSK in not being able to be blocked or protected from.

As always the flavor text was top notch.

3. How would you have handled the wiki error situation, were you in my place?

I would have immediately made a Mod post detailing the error in the Wiki and the change that had been made. That is the only proper way to handle it. The damage was already done (player signing up under false pretences) but handling it in any other manner was downright bad modding in the best of circumstances. What actually happened was far from the best of circumstances.

4. Were this and this not enough, in your opinion?

Nope. I trust my explanation above clearly show why.

5. Why are you asking to be blacklisted? What did you do in this game that would make me blacklist you?

This is more an offer so you can save your own face. Blacklisting me gives you the ability to say “He can’t play my games” (as you alluded to with AGM about "giving him a second chance") when I will not be even consider signing up for anything you Mod or Co-Mod anytime in the foreseeable future. This makes me sad as I was really looking forward to Brightest Day Mafia and am guessing you will still be involved.

In a game with six factions, it's a given that some people will lose. In this game, 23/24 people lost.

The "OMG I lost, setup is borked, FU REAPER!!!" is getting pretty old.

Once again you are scrambing anyway you can to pretend the issues involved weren’t your fault.

6 factions began the game … yet 2 of them could not have won. That’s reality.

This is my last post regarding the game or any of the handling of it.

Again – congrats to Magua

. You played a great game.