The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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UNVOTE:
The heads have come to the conclusion that we should join this bandwagon.
VOTE: DaSpotthatkillsu
My personal opinion on the matter is that Kcdaspot is too obsessed with signatures, and he may be using it as a distraction. Whether you sign or not is not a big deal; we have anonymous hydrae as it is, so it matters even less who wrote what. Moreover, it annoys me, and I like to bandwagon annoyances.
My other head wishes to make known that Unicorn Brethren is :goodposting:.-
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Balam Goon
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This head feels happy with the DaSpotthatkillsu wagon. I am even more happy that we are getting competitive wagons, but that is the bandwagon-happy part of me speaking.
Scum hydrae would be more likely to check their history and make sure they are not contradicting themselves, DaSpotthatkillsu.
Untrod Stranger needs some more posting. Now that I think about it, so does BeaverWeasel and GummyBear.Can we please get them prodded?
Final Destination, why did you limit yourself to choosing between BeaverWeasel and Unicorn Brethren for your vote?-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra. We see now that it is not effective if the designated posting head is not guaranteed to be available at consistent times.
I am of the opinion that YFC, as Fate pointed out, is off. I dislike the feel surrounding the Y[os]FC / Ether buddying, and I get the feeling of YFC tying to latch on to a town Ether. Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.
Currently of the opinion that these people are town: Pathetric (As yos said, easy to read), FD (Fate is easy to read when you've been in a few games with him, and his posting here is sincere), and DSTKU (meta, not particularly strong of a read and we aren't in agreement within the hydra about this).
Neutral / Null reads: Untrod Stranger (Some good posting, but not enough), GummyBear (Not enough posts outside the Ether / SS debate to tell, and that left a slight edge of scum for me and edge of town for the rest of the hydra), and Reckamonic (Not enough posts).
Scum reads: YFC and FES. YFC's recent posting makes my read here less certain, but I really don't like the feeling I get whenever I read Yos + Ether interactions earlier in the thread. FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings. I don't approve of the FD vote, but that may just be due to differing reads. There's very little to look at that makes me have good vibes with a lot of commentary that essentially does null to the discussion. This read isn't as solid amongst the heads as it is on the YFC read.
I'll go out on a limb and vote where my mouth is:Unvote, Vote: YFC-
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Balam Goon
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Oh, I seem to have missed some people in the game in that list. Greymarble's a very slight town read based upon his end disagreement surrounding the FD lynch, which was rather good posting. Mrs. Flay is null until they do something. BW's also null due to lack of recent content with a slight town edge. UB is null for me, but there is disagreement amongst us regarding that.-
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Balam Goon
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It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).
Preview Edit: I didn't notice the time. Thanks for pointing it out. We've actually had this belief since the FD discussion but had been waiting for the posting head to have time to post. Needless to say, they haven't, so I've started posting as well.-
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Balam Goon
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The Former Designated Posting Head speaking here. This head wanted to catch up in the game before posting the other heads' thoughts to ensure that the will of all the heads were incorporated, but as it turns out, I took too long. I'm still not caught up, actually, but we agreed that we needed to get a move on, and I've proven myself to be rather unreliable.Pathetric wrote:Post 241, Balam wrote:We've actually had this belief
...Post 241, Balam wrote:waiting for the posting head to have time
Anonymous hydra. Since you asked, however, I'll see what the others say.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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I got a different impression, as it felt a tad clingy to me. Can you explain why you feel it's townish?Pathetric wrote:
That's a funny story. Yosarian was indeed acting kinda weird toward me early on, and that'sPost 237, Balam wrote:Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.whyI decided he's probably town.
-Ether-
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Balam Goon
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It is the opinion of this head that the heads should decide to reveal themselves of their own desire.Balam wrote:
Anonymous hydra. Since you asked, however, I'll see what the others say.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.
I, for one, am fine with revealing my identity.
I'm RayFrost, I posted the list of reads.-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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<- Equinox
Originally, we decided on me being the posting head because I was likely to keep all of the heads' identities secret while, at the same time, still being able to present the viewpoints of the hydra. Unfortunately, due to circumstances I can't exactly reveal anywhere, I've been blowing my Mafia hours elsewhere and did not catch up here until a few hours ago (right before RayFrost took over), and I'm still about a page from finishing reading.
AGar and RayFrost have been posting thoughts in the QuickTopic throughout. Being the silly goose that I am, I thought I should get a chance to finish reading, post thoughts, work 'em out with the rest, and then post like a proper play-by-committee hydra. It didn't work out.-
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Balam Goon
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(Equinox)
Since I'm behindagain, I'm going to talk about what's going on in our discussions first and then tear this thread apart in the manner I usually do. AGar-head has been keeping up, and RayFrost-head will probably appear in the QuickTopic pretty soon to pick at both of our reads.
My personal read is that YosFlavouredCayke is scum for, basically, stroking Pathetric; to me, it reads like grooming a potential ally, and town have no business doing that. AGar, on the other hand, feels that YosFlavouredCayke has been logical in the way that town are logical, and scum will miss logical steps as they try to push mislynches. I don't know what RayFrost thinks yet. I'm in the process of rereading, so we'll see how this gets resolved and get back to you lovely folk.
We're in agreement regarding Frogito Ergo Sum and Untrod Stranger in that they're null-leaning-scum. Iso reveals nothing impressive coming from Frogito Ergo Sum aside from early bandwagoning and whatnot. I dislike the early spectating behavior when it was Ether vs. singersigner as well as the weirdly-worded L-1 warning. AGar wants to vote, but I want to hold back until I've done this reread.
Preview edit: Reading what I just wrote there, I feel totally useless as a posting head. Trying to convey other heads' thoughts when I myself am not as well-informed as I'd like is HARD. So, yeah, I'm getting to that reread now.-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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(Equinox)
You called out Frogito Ergo Sum for "rampant opportunistic bandwagoning." When someone pointed out that this wasn't true, you wiggled out of it by saying Frogito Ergo Sum's singular bandwagoning activity was still opportunistic and that the modifier didn't matter. Your point that Frogito Ergo Sum was hopping on two wagons has been debunked, yet you're still looking for ways to stick to your Frogito Ergo Sum case. Town would have re-evaluated what they were doing, at the very least.Untrod Stranger wrote:And that was...?
Tell him a 3-headed demon will be visiting him very soon if he doesn't join us in lynching the man with the DERP sign.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:I'm trying Ether, I am.
Preview edit: I love you, Cayke.-
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Balam Goon
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I acknowledge that you had other reasons. I pointed out that line specifically because IDaSpotthatkillsu wrote:That's ridiculous. I listed the fact that there were no more posts from us in a bunch of other stuff, so it wasn't like it was my only reason there. And from the fact that I said "no further information", you should be able to gather that I meant they were switching votes with no possible reasoning. Or maybe you don't WANT to gather that?hatedit, and the presence of that line alone really blew my read on you for a while.
I didn't see a problem with Unicorn Brethren's vote. Their vote was previously on Final Destination, and when they didn't like that anymore, they switched back. *shrug* I didn't have a problem with their initial vote on you, either.
Not really. (Facetiousness aside, the fact that we're playing Dance Dance Revolution - Thumbs Edition in our QuickTopic is saying something... I'm glad I have one less game to worry about during midterm season, but still.)Untrod Stranger wrote:You would think that a game with like 30 people available to post that this game would go a little faster.
Welp. Since I'm here, I might as well be annoying.
BeaverWeasel and Reckamonic, you've promised content since the dawn of time. Well, the dinosaurs are roaming the earth now, and the meteor is going to hit any moment now. If you can't get your hydra heads together, please for our sakes just post your own personal reads and then argue it with your heads later.
(I'm a hypocrite, wheeee.)
Down and out.-
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Balam Goon
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Good to see you again, Copper.
BeaverWeasel makes me :headdesk: because of these gems:
I can understand being suspicious of YosFlavouredCayke's behavior, but why (why, why, WHY) would you say thisBeaverWeasel wrote:I am dissapointed that there are less YosCayke/Pathetric votes. Those two have had their heads so far up eachothers asses they will either claim masons or one of them is scum.out loud?
I was hoping you were being facetious when you accused Pathetric of being deceitful with their "some newb" comment. (That's the Poe's law I linked to.) Apparently, you were not. Painting that as a scum tell, really?BeaverWeasel wrote:@ Pathetric 48-49: We decided to remain anonymous before we signed up for this game, also, yes. Your effort early on to paint yourself as a newb was decietful.
I'm going to skip the consultation with my fellow heads and go with...
Vote: BeaverWeasel
That said, there are a couple of things about which I do need to consult, particularly how the wagons on Day 1 played out in light of new information.
Minor detail, but they weren't the first.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:It's odd that you're the first person to notice that.
I'd like to know what changed between March 6 and March 9 to make you do this.Unicorn Brethren wrote:We bringeth down teh hammerrrr-
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Balam Goon
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I'm acting in my capacity as posting head here. We believe Frogito Ergo Sum is scum.
*hops*
Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum
To cite one of the heads:
Final Destination was talking about Untrod Stranger, not YosFlavouredCayke. This is a terrible twist. In fact, here's the link to Final Destination's post, which conveniently quotes a post about Untrod Stranger. Note the full first paragraph there.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Bullshit. This is a lie. You were voting YosCayke and pushing their wagon for most of Day 1 and you were still doing it at the end.Final Destination wrote:I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka our stance on FES being scum yesterday.
We're happy we got a wagon on BeaverWeasel (which we're now defecting) but uncomfortable with YosFlavouredCayke shooting down Final Destination's case against Frogito Ergo Sum.-
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Balam Goon
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Personal post rather than committee post.
Looking through Final Destination's iso, Frogito Ergo Sum is correct in that Untrod Stranger had nothing to do with Final Destination's read of Frogito Ergo Sum and YosFlavouredCayke based on their Day 1 posting. What's up with that, AlmasterGM and Fate?
I have a question for you, too, Frogito Ergo Sum.
This is in reference to your comment about BeaverWeasel's 323. If you did not use "bad" to mean "scummy," what did you mean? You never really elaborated on this. Further, since you're on an entirely different wagon altogether, I'd like your thoughts on the other wagons.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:Bad =/= scummy.
"Very controversial indeed." Can you define this term "controversial" for me, please? This doesn't tell me anything.Unicorn Brethren wrote:Nothing changed between the 6th and the 9th other than we felt a case had been built against US that we felt needed to be followed through on. Also after doing some rereading this head finds the Yos/Cayke disagreement leading to a last minute hop onto the US wagon to be very controversial indeed.
Copper, how far along are you on reading? It's been a couple of days.-
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Balam Goon
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That was my misunderstanding about you lot, then. (I was the one who brought up the concept of a committee-post hydra based upon my belief that you did so and you all seem to work smoothly, so yar). To answer your wondering about my lack of posting, it's due to the fact that I don't find my typical posing style to be conducive to smooth hydra performance / clarity of reads, and I really don't want to actively change how I naturally type things up. Instead, I just post my reads in the hydra QT. If you'dCopper wrote:Balam:
Thank you for the endorsement.An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra.
And actually, we are not a "one head posts" hydra. We do strive for a similarity in posting style and convergence in reads so that reading us is the same as reading a normal player.
Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players, I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.likeme to startspammingposting when I feel like posting without discussing with my fellow heads, then by all means say so. Do be warned, though: it'll likely double our post count (which would be rather unfortunate, in my opinion).
I don't know Agar's reason for not posting ITT, but he seems to have planned this from after we designated equi as the posting head. He also pretty much sai he wouldn't be when he said he was one of the heads (he's also quite busy with real life stuff, etc).-
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Balam Goon
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The Unicorn Brethren frustrate us to no end. Please get your act together.
Also, questions, unicorns. I do not ask them so that they can be ignored.
All right, so we know now that you meant that BeaverWeasel's case was bad. What does that say about BeaverWeasel's alignment? You've mentioned others in your posts today, but you've explicitly avoided saying anything about this slot except "they made a poor case" and "we didn't wagon them because Final Destination was scummier." You can't just comment they made a bad post and then leave it at that.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:On the basis of a single post that we thought was a bad one, not even a scummy one (bad refers to the quality of the case, not possible motivation), we're apparently supposed to throw away everything we have on FD?
AGar also expresses his displeasure at your response in post 377. You know my feelings on the matter, but here's his: Your response was not satisfactory, and instead looks and feels ugly as a backpedal.
In other news, I'm seeing a lot of :goodposting: which gives me really warm, fuzzy feelings inside.
Finally...
Prod: BeaverWeasel, GummyBear
The day should not end without significant content from these slots.-
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Balam Goon
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On March 6, their post indicated they believed a scum team of YosFlavouredCayke, Frogito Ergo Sum, and someone to be decided later. In their very next post on March 9, they brought down the hammer on Untrod Stranger without so much as a word after 3 days of inactivity, so I felt it warranted some explanation. Looking back on their iso, I don't see their earlier suspicion of Untrod Stranger; the last post mentioning that slot was an apology of sorts for low activity.GummyBear wrote:Balam’s 360 is alright. The last point they make (about UB’s change of heart on US) is worth mentioning: They had earlier expressed suspicion of US. Why ask about what "changed?"-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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This is an obligatory post in green. Hello everyone, this is RayFrost. I dislike the great lengths Yos seems to be going to in protecting people rather than aggressively hunting for scum. I can understand hunting for town for PoE, but the exclusivity in which he seems to be doing this is highly bothersome. My other heads happen to agree on this matter, which is why I'm mentioning it. They might've put it a different way, but I don't really care: I'm posting in green. That said, we are not certain that this is indicative of YFC-scum and merely feel it's a point of oddity. The Unicorn Hoes really should get their act together. They are mindnumbingly town in a very, very bad way. Sure, obv town, but also obv-not-being-helpful-in-a-single-freaking-way. Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.-
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Balam Goon
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Super ninja prod dodge.
Unfortunately, for the past few days, I've been neglecting this game, so I have no idea what's going on apart from getting a spiffy replacement (hullo there, InflatablePie and Parama). QuickTopic's been quiet, too, which is probably why nobody has taken over. I'll be out from Tuesday through Friday to take care of some heavy-duty writing assignments, so I'mma ask if any of the other two heads can take over for those days.
OK. So, gonna start catching up, like, now. If I don't come back within the next 2-3 hours, I fully expect to see knives flying my way.-
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Balam Goon
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Balam will not be V/LA this week.
Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.
From a personal standpoint, I don't see YosFlavouredCayke-scum anymore. In addition to what has already been said about the idea of YosFlavouredCayke killing Pathetric, there's another angle to Pathetric's death: BeaverWeasel mentioned toward the end of the day how the two were acting like masons. I had the same thought, so it isn't unreasonable to suppose scum did, as well. Welp, they were wrong, but they've cleared YosFlavouredCayke by happy accident. This is my final say on the matter.
I love it when I pull 180s. *ducks*
Now that I've caught up... I don't have much else to say. I'm going to go reread the cases against Frogito Ergo Sum and then the whole Final Destination-Frogito Ergo Sum deal now. Not understanding why I'm sitting on a wagon is bad, even if my fellow heads do.
I've learned a lesson today: A game in which one plays as a hydra is still a full game and not one-half or one-third... or one-sixth. Yep. Urk.
Preview edit: Hi, Lord Fonzi.-
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Balam Goon
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Balam Goon
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AGar and RayFrost have spoken and agree with my YosFlavouredCayke read. Yay for progress.
In fact, I think we've had more progress this evening (morning now, where did my precious sleep go) than the past 2 days. This feeling of accomplishment is awesome.
The heads approve of Lord Fonzi's push toward GummyBear. Since Day 1's fresh on my mind, I'm going to take a moment to point out that GummyBear is in the enviable position of being able to communicate 24/7, and they emphasized the need to coordinate reads during their argument with Pathetric. Of all the hydrae in the game, I'd expect those two to have the least amount of problems coordinating and posting.
On Day 1 reread, I like Final Destination's reaction to Greymarble, dislike Frogito Ergo Sum's efforts to stick to a meta case already debunked, and disagree with YosFlavouredCayke that the case against Frogito Ergo Sum at the end of the day was "weak." The meta case Greymarble pushed was bull from the start, and Greymarble themselves retracted it once they got a rise out of Final Destination. No point riding its coattails after that. Others read as townish or under the radar. Will have to parse GummyBear's postings later.
...guh. I was going to keep going alllll the way to page 19, but it's almost 7 in the morning, and I have not slept. Needless to say, I'm totally spent. I'll continue this upon my return.
AGar! RayFrost! I leave this to you~
For everyone else, I give you this to work with.
Kill the following: Frogito Ergo Sum, Super Vanilla Townie (but let InflatableParama have their fill first), GummyBear
I've got everyone else on varying degrees of town, so yay.
SLEEP NAO.-
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Balam Goon
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Pardon the schizophrenia here. I feel the need to press an issue a bit.
@YFCYou're doing a good amount of townhunting. This is completely acceptable. But the only read I've gathered from you to be anti-town is Final Destination. I'm interested in at least 1 other scumread, if not more, that you have.
Other than that, I'll be handling more posting load come tomorrow for a bit.-
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Balam Goon
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The frostiness checking in. AGar and myself will both be posting during the period of time that equinox is unavailable. I won't be marking who I am in the future merely as a point of laziness on my part.
To expand upon AGar's tid-bit towards YFC: we like town reads and all, but town reads are easy to give. If you have collected enough of them, you should be able to start actually finding scum via some scumreads in tandem with your PoE. There's a limit to the effectiveness of townhunting when it comes to our ability to read you based off of your reads. Aside from that is the fact that you can't just go around defusing all of the wagons without providing a wagon or two that you would support. The lynch is the town's biggest weapon, so who do you propose we use it on?
Also: AGar, I thought I was supposed to be the posting head until wednesday? Not that I'm complaining.-
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Balam Goon
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I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. My issue is the fact I've found YFC pushing far harder at protecting their town reads than they have at actually getting us to lynch their scum reads. The two should come together rather than YFC focusing so heavily on one or the other. I might be misremembering, but YFC hasn't really one much in providing of cases for their scum reads to try and get people to vote with them.Lord Fonzi wrote:We find the previous post to be disengenuous. It is simply untrue to argue that YFC has not 'provided a wagon or two they would support.' BeaverWeasel who they were voting before, and Final Destination come to mind. It's certainly easier to recall who they suspect than say... Gummybear.
Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.
We can like a push to someone we think is scummy even if you are moving away from someone we think is scum. We have a scum-flavored null read on gummybear, so your push there is :goodposting: just as a push towards FES would be :goodposting:. Your last point there seems a bit confusing tome. Why can't we have multiple suspects and support the pressuring of one of them while we go after the other again?
Will read the UB text wall after this commercial break.-
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Balam Goon
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Being someone who has played with fate-scum an (IIRC) fate-town, I can inform you that FD is more likely town from a meta-basis, but I'm more than willing to look and see if you'll actually provide a case on them. The fact you go from "FD maaaay be town, but you really should not assume anything from this particular aspect of their play" to "FD / FES scumteam with bussing, KILL THEM ALL" to "Copper is scum" really makes me itch. It's bad, unsupported, an doesn't flow naturally together. Your reasoning for finding Copper scum is essentially "Copper wrote a lot" - being verbose is hardly an attribute that can be slotted to scum or town. If you'd like evidence, I can link you to the numerous text walls I've performed upon replacing in to numerous games as town.Unicorn Brethren wrote: Re: Copper talking about FD's "town frustration" not easily being faked, apparently they've not played enough with Fate or AGM. It's easily fakeable, especially by either of those two. Learn to read scum townfaking. Not to say its not possible they're town, but don't use townie frustration as a towntell from either of them.
In all likelihood, FES and FD are scumbuddies, and FD is looking for town cred by bussing. There. Since it's been said now, nobody should fall for that shit. If I'm NK'd I swear on all that is holy you retards better kill them both.
[snippity snip snip]
It's rather easy to see that: Either that's scum looking for ultimate buddying rights with us, along with an "I told you so" when we flip, AND just looking to pad out the post with extra verbiage... or it's town with waaayyyyy too much time on their hands, and not much stock put into to the timeless adage "Succinctness is pro-town". TL;DR: Copper is scum.
Vote: Copper
Fate buddying with Copper is to be expected. Fate buddies with the most pro-town players in any game regardless of his own alignment.
I also don't understand how the bolded works with your "COPPER / FES / FD" scumteam claim.
It's terribly lacking, so no thank you.UppityBrodog wrote:
How's this post? ... Now be a good boy and change your vote to Copper if you know what's good for you.Balam wrote:This is an obligatory post in green.Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.[snip]
If Copper was not online upon the arrival of the near-lynching, then how would Copper have unvoted at the time? Copper came inUntrodBoombox wrote:
If you're glad that GreyMarble unvoted, then why didn't youCopper wrote:I am glad that GreyMarble has unvoted. With three non-voters, and one of those players completely absent from the thread all of Day Two, ending the day now would be shockingly premature.yourselfunvote? You had plenty of chance to do so. But oh wait. You were just actively looking for a mislynch, but now you're looking for town cred when it looks like you won't be able to push it through.afterGM unvoted. Your reasoning here is still slip shod and stretching to the utmost to fit a Copper-scum frame.
Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT. As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate. This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.UnicornBread wrote:I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.-
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Ok, this is a straight up call-out on Gummybear. It's been almost an entire week since your last post here. You're both in scumchat at similar times. You're hydra has posted elsewhere since then. You guys have the biggest convenience out of any account to co-ordinate reads for a post. I'm beginning to wonder if the lurking is because you can't fake them.
Get to it. Pronto.-
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Greymarble, I don't know what you're doing in post 485, but since it looks to be a response to my 484, let me tell you something: If you were trying to accuse me of cancelling a V/LA for the express purpose of damage control in a Mafia game, you're wrongandout of line.
I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.Lord Fonzi wrote:Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.
Unicorn Brethren posting head for post 468, where the fuck were you? You should have been here when we were yelling and screaming for you in the dark, scary forest. (I think you're ReaperCharlie, by the way. This looks similar to Newbie 1040.)
I disagree with the Final Destination-Frogito Ergo Sum bussing theory. Your Copper scum read isbad.
I thought I was clear about my kill list. I have varying town reads on everyone else. I have a scum read on Super Vanilla Townie's slot from BeaverWeasel's posting activity. I agree with Lord Fonzi's read on GummyBear. I have a scum read on Frogito Ergo Sum from my Day 1 reread and I'm sheeping AGar and RayFrost; since I'm here, I'll continue the reread to see how that holds.Unicorn Brethren wrote:I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.
Opportunistic 180 is certainly bad, yes. I don't see a problem with doing 180s when they are warranted, however. One should constantly be re-evaluating reads in light of new evidence.
RayFrost wrote:As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate.
To add to what RayFrost has said already about discussion of the hammer, I basically raged that Unicorn Brethren was acting like a bunch of numbskulls for having such a nice set of 6 heads, but it was too bold of a move for scum. We didn't discuss it after that.
RE post 481: I fail to see how that's a slip. RayFrost was offering his read of the Super Vanilla Townie slot, and it was based on faulty memory. His line about how little we discussed the Untrod Stranger hammer is the truth.-
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...okay, post 488 from me was out of line, and I apologize for that. It's natural to be suspicious when one of the heads suddenly comes back when the other two heads have caused damage. I don't appreciate the comments from Greymarble, but I think I need to be empathetic with the situation here and realize that my timing was pretty bad, and I wasn't exactly forthcoming about the situation leading up to me having time for this game.
The next post from me is going to be a lot more civil.-
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Oh, wouldn't I know it, GreyICE. Though the aim wasn't so much to insult but more to rage at your insinuations... Eh, I should stop here or else I will explode again. Whether or not you believe me when I say my reappearance was a coincidence isn't relevant.Greymarble wrote:Dun worry, you can't possibly offend me by insulting me
Response time.
Not what I said. The slot has been scummy, and the only reason it's getting a pass now is because of the replacement. I'm not one to lynch people as they're in the middle of catching up; whatever they have to say is useful.Greymarble wrote:Anyway, you're saying that SVT should hang for... no. reason. at. all.
There really is nothing more to RayFrost's error than a lapse in memory. I don't see how forgetting that it wasn't BeaverWeasel who hammered is in any way a scum slip, but we're not scum, so eh, of course that blindness is going to be there. Carry on.
You tying us to Lord Fonzi before watching us flip, though, is... hilariously bad. More so because you're dead wrong about us as it is, but I also disagree with your read on Lord Fonzi. That slot's town with the pressure they've applied and the stances they've taken. Their move to Balam-scum was natural. (I'm wasting my breath, aren't I. Kekeke. Keep this for later when we flip, since I know you listen to dead people.)-
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Balam Goon
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FES. is. a. bigger. priority.Lord Fonzi wrote:Balam: Vote. Them. Then. It's like you're willing to do anything to look like you're pressuring them, except the one thing that will actually create pressure on them to either get their act together or ask for replacement.
It's like we're not allowed to pursue suspicions outside of our main suspect unless that suspicion becomes our main suspect.. Would you like us to tunnel into oblivion?
I'd rather see them force-replaced at this point - 6 days without posting is a flake. But if the mod isn't going to do it, I'll call them out. Meanwhile, FES needs to die first.
If Equinox is back, I'll be back to simply posting in our QT, but this post of idiocy needed to be addressed.
P-Edit:
I haven't harassed you outside of the thread. I said I've seen you online at the same time, and yet no posts here have materialized. You managed a post in another game SINCE your last post here.
The bolded means I think you're lurking because you can't fake a case on someone and don't want to get caught.-
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AGar and I are bashing our heads to the wall right now. It's okay; we'll have RayFrost clean up the mess when he wakes up, so the wall won't stay bloody for long.
We can like pressure being placed on another player, especially if we've been overlooking that player. Do we have to join it when there's other scum in our sights? No. I didn't feel the need to join a bandwagon on GummyBear in this situation and neither did AGar. If GummyBear is scum, then yeah, we look bad, but so be it because we're that sure of Frogito Ergo Sum.
The "tag team attack" on YosFlavouredCayke was coincidence. (I say that word enough I may make it my own freaking gimmick.) We'd been in discussion about YosFlavouredCayke at the time, and those discussions were independent of what others were saying about YosFlavouredCayke.
Also, if you're going to accuse RayFrost of lurking, you need to accuse me first. Our setup has been, up until now (and I think we're returning to this with my return here), post in QuickTopic, discuss, and then have Equinox post. We never clearly defined a rule about when the other heads would jump in, since we all expected me to keep activity up. Comedy of errors, wham, wrench meets plumbing. I suspect neither AGar nor RayFrost jumped in because they expected that I'd pick it up in good time.
Preview edit: I'm literally out the door and I see WALLS. Later.-
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Yeeeaaaahhhhhhh. See there's a bit of a problem with your "meta" here. You're basing it off of my "activity activity activity activity" line towards kcda in that game. This was a frustration line towards him because his play was fine until he stopped posting. Your meta, even if it's accurate about my scum play,Greymarble wrote:
If there's one scum motto RF lives by, it's activity. And look! It's Frosty!Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players,I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.also describes my town play. I'm a pro-activity person. This will never change about me. The fact that you are trying to support your case based upon a one-legged meta is, simply put, crap.
I shall reply to the rest of the postings about my "scum slip" of forgetting who hammered (apparently, I'm scum fornot being hyper-vigilantin this game ) as well as the rest if I have time this morning, though I do have to go out rather soonish.-
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....Greymarble wrote:Balam wrote:Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT.This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate.Balam wrote:Eh? UntrodStranger. I fail to see the relevance of your comment.
My other head can lift this up if he wants to.Balam wrote:Oh, you said beaverweasle not UB (the actual hammerers) hahahaha. God, I should pay more attention.
We didn't really discuss the hammer past a "That hammer was crap" esque comment from equinox.
Vote: Balam
We ain't discussed it. But this don't pass.
....
Reading is tech. First quote: faulty memory = attributing the hammer to an incorrect person. This scumread is in the air until svt catches up.
Forgetting what I type = fun.
Equinox made a "that hammer was crap" esque comment regarding UB, which is how I even noticed that I was attributing the hammer to BW in the first place (hint: I went back over the QT when fonzi/WHOEVERTHEFOOK asked if we discussed the hammer extensively).
Go ahead and explain how forgetting shit, or, more accurately,attributing an unusual/bad behavior to the wrong person by accidentis a scumslip, kthx.-
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My reaction to "I can read RF like an open book" is "lolno." You got a cop investigation on me in a town full of obv-town VIs for newbies and obv-town for everybody else after the lynch. The uncertain players (aside from me) were all on the D1 deadline lynch ofGreymarble wrote:You're right about the line. It's not your fault that you pulled scum here. Happens to the best of us.
Anyway, you're saying that SVT should hang for... no. reason. at. all.
Meh, I can read RayFrost like an open book. Didn't lynch him in 45 minutes on day 2 because I fail to understand him. He saw a read he didn't understand and grabbed a reason out of midair.
Everything after that was backpeddling.the mafia roleblocker. If you hadn't chosen me as the cop investigation, you'd have been an idiot. Plain and simple. Trying to cock upcatching me once as scumas anything more than the above is just. not. accurate. Now please kindly take a pin and stick it into your oversized head. One Game. That's all it was.
Geezus. SVT is scummy for te play of his predecessor, which is to say a bunch of not-really-content posts that don't contribute much to scumhunting before replacing out without doing much of anything helpful during the period of time they were here. SVT gets a bye from this suspicion during the period of time that they are catching up.
Please, feel free to point out the backpedaling.-
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The last three posts and this one = RayMotherFuckingFrost. RMFF for short.
To add to my "please feel free to point out the backpedaling" - please feel free to point out the backpedaling from the realizing I made an error in my attribution of blame due to not paying attention and how either one is a scumtell.
Also feel free to point out my "scumslip" and how it is, in fact, a scumslip rather than a slip of memory (which happens to me all the time).
What weLord Fonzi wrote:
But why would you like it, when it directly leads to your stated primary aim for the day (lynching FES) becoming more difficult? When you're town and someone unvotes the wagon you're on, which you're convinced is scum, do you like that?Greymarble wrote: I can 'like' someone doing something and disagree with the focus (or not agree enough to move my vote). It's incredibly weak, and I'm not overly impressed.likedwas you pressuring someone we wanted pressured. This does not mean we liked the fact you left the FES wagon to do it (hint: we don't). Your making our "like" comment about the entirety of your action when it was about a portion of it, not the whole.-
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Just realized I missed an aspect of this. I did post soon after copper said that, yes. I was explaining how we had decided to setup the hydra.Greymarble wrote:
If there's one scum motto RF lives by, it's activity. And look! It's Frosty!Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players,I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.
In fact, we will continue to follow this unless I need to post in order to deal with the fallout from my inability to remember who's who or Equinox ends up not having time. The fact you tried to associate her canceling V/LA to her-scum trying to save the gamestate because the V/LA was somehow a strategic one to let equinox do something (what I have no idea... oh, maybe it's a real V/LA that woudn't be dropped because oh something happened in a game) is just foul, by the way.-
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We're looking forward to seeing reads from GummyBear soon. Also, AGar wants to see YosFlavouredCayke's scum reads (aside from Final Destination) coming from YosFlavouredCayke themselves instead of "lolobv" from Lord Fonzi; he doesn't care if it's a "They smell funny" kind of read.
Also, Super Vanilla Townie, patience is wearing thin.-
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I bring you a message from AGar: That was a good post from YosFlavouredCayke, even though we disagree with their read on DaSpotthatkillsu.
Personally, the read I have on DaSpotthatkillsu is pretty much gut. Their behavior in the thread leaves much to be desired, but the things they've posted come off as genuine and sincere in a town way. RayFrost also has meta pointing to that slot being town.
Also good to see post 516 from Super Vanilla Townie. Definitely looking forward to seeing how those reads evolve from page 14 onwards.-
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I'm going to go ahead and ask for these, since it would help me in seeing your train of thought with regards to your reads in post 516. Spoiler it if it's too long.Super Vanilla Townie wrote:I could post what Parama and I have written so far if that'd help at all, but again it's all old shit. And Parama's is kinda lengthy.
Frogito Ergo Sum, in post 450, you pointed out a number of things from DaSpotthatkillsu's behavior toward Unicorn Brethren early on Day 1. Would the possibility that those 3 posts you linked in the first paragraph came from 2 different heads make any difference to your read?
Greymarble, I realize you think I'm scum, but answer me this anyway:
Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.Greymarble wrote:I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.
Okay, so apparently, this post is going to be spicier than I originally thought. Let's make this game interesting so that InflatablePie won't complain about how dead it is!
Let's set aside the second part of this sentence, "Motive." You've established a motive, which is an accidental scum slip. (Even though it is complete and utter bullshit and I cannot wait to see the egg on your face, but, for the purposes of this exercise, let's ignore that.)Greymarble wrote:Haha, when have I ever given too many shits about meta Fate or AGM? I need motives, not 'perfectly consistent behavior that never changes.'
Despite "[not] ever given too many shits about meta," you bring up RayFrost's meta from Newbie 1068:
RayFrost says that your meta is bullshit, and here is why:Greymarble wrote:Meh, I can read RayFrost like an open book. Didn't lynch him in 45 minutes on day 2 because I fail to understand him. He saw a read he didn't understand and grabbed a reason out of midair.
- The strength in GreyICE's meta is the fact that there was a last-minute deadline lynch on RayFrost's mafia roleblocker partner, Kcdaspot. The nature of the lynch cleared all 5 players on the wagon, which left only two uncleared players off the wagon. GreyICE was town cop who didn't participate in the lynch. He investigated RayFrost that evening. RayFrost notes that all of the town were obvtown.
- Saying that RayFrost's scum motto is "Activity" without mentioning his town motto, and when the only basis for GreyICE's meta at all is RayFrost's comments to Kcdaspot to keep activity up (and the reason Kcdaspot got deadline-lynched was inactivity), and then using it as a base for his read here is bullshit.
Care to explain why you're supplementing your case against us with false meta?-
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Hope everything goes well, Cayke.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:In other news, my life is slowly getting back together.
Greymarble, I don't think I need to wait for you to sort whatever it is you were doing to respond to this, do I?
This is of particular interest to me. The other thing, too, but that's more RayFrost's area.Balam wrote:
Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.Greymarble wrote:I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.
Being one of those people who takeforeverto catch up in games, I don't consider it a scum tell, but it's still annoying nonetheless on this side of the fence. Anyway, post 522, it's... lacking. I'm surprised they came up with only that much after 9 pages. AGar thinks the post was awful. Equinox wants to wait and see what they say when they finally gather their thoughts together (but would like them to speed up).
The hydra consensus now is that... well, there is no consensus, really. AGar is running out of patience and wants to hop onto the GummyBear wagon. I'd rather wait until GummyBear's V/LA is over and see if they deliver the promised goods and then judge. RayFrost has bloodlust for Greymarble, and with Greymarble's newest post, I guess we're in for a treat.
As for me, I'm bothered that the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon has been sitting like this for a while. It's become a fixture. I want to attribute that to Frogito Ergo Sum's overall level of activity given that I do believe this wagon is made up of town and everyone has expressed a reason why they're on it, but something in the back of my mind tells me something's up. Will look into this.
Oh, hey, previews.
Um, Kcdaspot, are we talking about the same thread?DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:I didn't think he was outwardly town but there was no way he was scum.
He didn't post much, but there was no WAY he was lurking, NONE.
TER RI BAD.
You're makingterriblepoints. You say BeaverWeasel wasn't "outwardly town" but not outwardly scummy, and then you're on about how they weren't actively lurking and how they should've been skimming if they were. Terrible assumptions. Somehow, all of this makes them "NOT SCUM" enough for you to defend them this hard...?
I'm not buying this.
Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu-
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First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting. On top of that, the slot has had a defensiveness in their posts for a while that have been irritating, and I believe now that it's because they've been nervous about the suspicion against them from YosFlavouredCayke.
Moving onto Greymarble's wall, I'm pleased that you didn't back off us like you did with Final Destination. That would've been scummy, but instead, you react like this. Cool. You're dead wrong, still. Let's dance.
I had a gut town read on DaSpotthatkillsu from their posting early on Day 1, and RayFrost had his meta read. It has been reversed because new evidence suggests that they are scum. I'll reiterate that Kcdaspot's white-knighting of BeaverWeasel in his recent spat with YosFlavouredCayke was terrible in that it did not match the facts, and what he was saying rang false; if someone isn't scummy and isn't townish, they areGreymarble wrote:DSTKU - "Mild read" that has since reversed.null. You don't scream with a blue face that they're not scum, and the only way you can be sure that someone like that is town on Day 1 is if you are scum. New evidence, new read.
I hate the "easy targets" argument. Y'know, sometimes they are scum. We saw that they were making actions that could have been scum-motivated, and we called them scum. There is no reason to discount someone just because they're an easy mark. If you saw them drop town tells and read them as town, then fine, we disagree, but don't just drop things like, "Oh, GummyBear's an easy target, Balam is scum for attacking them."
Funny you say that. That was pretty much a stream-of-consciousness paragraph you quoted, and then you miss the stuff after that paragraph. Thanks for knocking out the context, nice work.Greymarble wrote:This stuff is interesting. It seems to reveal the internal logic of their hydra. Or does it?
Read that paragraph again and tell me you didn't see this:
- AGar still had a scum read on Frogito Ergo Sum. (I didn't elaborate because he didn't. Plain and simple.)
- RayFrost had not updated his reads with us since his post in green, so I assumed he still had YosFlavouredCayke-scum.
- Equinox has no scum reads because she needed to get a better grip on the game.
:badposting:Greymarble wrote:That's the ONLY SALIENT POINTS you raised. Everything else has been "I like this." "I don't like that." "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y." "This hydra is coming to a consensus."
In case you didn't catch the memo, Equinox is posting on AGar's and RayFrost's behalf unless there are circumstances calling for them to post. What that's going to mean is I will say what is on their mind, and I'm not labeling anything as a "we" if it's just that person saying it. While I could wait for more consensus between us three before posting and do away with the "X thinks Y" lines, but the last time I did that, we were knocked out for a week waiting for each other to get caught up and post. Consider those to be reads from someone within our hydra; don't dismiss it just because all three of us didn't agree on it.
If one of us doesn't like something, wedon't like it. We're not Frogito Ergo Sum; "bad" is going to mean "scummy" unless we say otherwise.
You're right that I've referred to the QuickTopic fairly often. There is a real reason for that, and it's not "lol we're waiting for consensus." There are things I can't talk about in the thread due to gag rules, etc. Take my word for it or don't.
Now... I don't want your blood anymore because I'm a lot more interested in someone else's blood. Whether or not RayFrost continues to feel bloodlust for you will be apparent pretty soon because he's going to be the one replying to your points about Newbie 1068.-
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:badvoting:Unicorn Brethren wrote:
Put Copper on your Willing to Lynch list and it's a deal.Super Vanilla Townie wrote:Add UB to the maybe list, btw.
Vote: Copperif we aren't already.
Your points against Copper were refuted and people have expressed disagreement about them. Be less lazy and tell us why you so strongly believe Copper to be scum... because I really, really don't see it.-
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Welp. I missed something.
Funny story. When I said, "AGar still wants blood," that's literally all I got from him. I've asked him to come in here and explain why his read is so strong.Greymarble wrote:Where are these reasons that FES is scum? Well, I dunno. Just RayFrost and AGar want blood, and you trust their judgment. Coolio, I don't trust you. So gimme some reasons. I accept hydra head disagreements, but SVT and Copper are both doing things right and posting ARGUMENTS.