Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[ooba]

Thanks!

- Town: Agar, SD, MoI, Gemini, Axelrod

- I was initially apprehensive about chess since contrary to other players opinions, I thought his play this game was more forced to try and fit his town play (like GCCFM). The other reason my scumdar shot up is because of the "JK" Semi counter claim & people were like "Do you really think scum would do a 1:1 on D1?"
-- Would like to point out that he immediately shifts the burden to the mods ("there will be words postgame"). So can see him saying "Hey it's the mods fault they had two JKs" after SD was lynched.
- However most of his recent thoughts resonate with mine (on Gandalf, on having some solid town reads). Therefore chess is also on my town list - not as strong as the ones above. Iece also falls into this category - gut read from posts.

- Scum list: Gandalf, quadz, vox, SB, Dekes, BS, ddiddn

- Share Agar's thought that I don't really feel the BS or ddiddn lynch. If I had to choose between the two, it would be BS.
- Would put gandalf on faking dumbtown but stronger scum read on Quadz

Unvote. Vote: Quadz

- I don't have the post number with me but he doesn't provide any reasoning in the post where he votes SD. The quote is there; Looks like "Have to say something smart while jumping on to the biggest wagon, I'll come back to it" but never did ..
- Pattern of votes & attacks.

P.S: posting from a phone so forgive typos.

[ooba]

- I wanted to bring out the point against the "1:1 scum tradeoff" argument for Chess in the thread.
- I find BS and ddiddn scummy. However out of all the people on that list, I would like their lynches the least - since a lot of their scummy actions could also be attributed both to bad town play. I just agreed with that single line in Agar's post ..
- The "pattern of votes and attack" is how I typically scumhunt - who people c hose to attack and who they ignore .. It boils down to the vibe I get off vote posts ..

Edit: @Chess: My town reads are much stronger than my scum reads right now.

[ooba]

I'm calling gandalf-BS scumbuddies. Quadz-BS links also present (Basis: Quick ISO of all three. I'll post all points which caught my eye once I am at a PC)

Both BS, gandalf now look like scum trying to overplay the dumbtown card.

I'd be happy with any of these three lynches.

Unvote. Vote: BS

[ooba]

L-2 if I've counted right ..

Claim time !!

[ooba]

L-2 if I've counted right ..

Claim time !!

L-2 = claim time?

Since when?

Barely any difference between L-2 and L-1 in a large game on D1 .. Saves time and speeds up things ..

[ooba]

L-2 if I've counted right ..

Claim time !!

L-2 = claim time?

Since when?

Barely any difference between L-2 and L-1 in a large game on D1 .. Saves time and speeds up things ..

Because outing a PR unnecessarily is totally worth those two things......... You have 20 minutes to find somewhere where you've expressed this opinion before as town, or I'm pretty sure we've found a new wagon.

I've always advocated speeding things up when the outcome seems inevitable .. While I don't advocate "Oh you voted me. But thats stupid because I'm <insert role here>" VI claims at L-9, I think sticking blindly to only claim when you're at L-1 is bad ..

You can scan my wiki. You'll find situations where
- I've claimed before L-1 since it looks like I'll be wagoned to it
- I've asked people to claim before L-1

---

The Gandalf-BS links:
- Gandalf has no comments on the first BS wagon except this

Hmmmm...... I like all three leading wagons right now.

- This time when BS wagon is building up again, prefers arguing "Logic sux" to commenting on it
- Newest addition:

"I'm pretty sure we've found a new wagon"

-> "Move from BS please"

- BS pulls out LC for just 1 content post out of 16. Not even a single word about gandalf who has a lion share of scumhunting-free posts discussing surveys, setup and falseclaim-possibilities most of the time? (Not to mention even the last few posts about logic)

[ooba]

Also, BS's lynch is not "inevitable". there are competing wagons, which means that not everybody agrees with it.

I didn't say BS lynch was inevitable .. I think L-1 or BS claiming is inevitable ..

And please stop pushing a SK-only-possibility-SD lynch ..

[ooba]

When I played with BabySpice scum in Stars Aligned III, I thought she was the scummiest player in the universe.

Do recent posts change this or do you still get a not-scum vibe from BS's play?

[ooba]

Gandalf, for the last time: I am not an an SK. And your damn insistence on that paranoia does not make half the sense you want it to. Blind setup speculations before even N1 has happened are as useful as a wiper on a submarine.
And even if you really believe that stuff you're excreting all the time you should have realized that a me lynch is out of question and that there are actual scum in this game that you should care for.

You are fucking scum of some fucking type. There is no way that your posts are coming from town. I don't give a shit if there's only one kill tonight. Maybe you're a lyncher, or you have some mechanic related goal(Gollum, anybody?), but you ARE FUCKING SCUM.

- Given the fact that SD is under so much scrutiny right now, there's no way that he'd survive till the end of the game as third party
- He constantly keeps hinting that his super will confirm his town status in some way so lets see how that pans out
- You've made your point - By harping more on SD (a lynch which is not going to happen on D1), all you're doing is distracting us from figuring out who we need to lynch now ..

[ooba]

Oh, for Plums benifit, my role name is in different colours. Many different colours.
Iris, goddess of rainbows.

I like the multicolored role name bit .. Normal power please ..

[ooba]

I am not countering the claim. Sounds genuine.
I'm reading this game again but no longer interested in lynching either of gandalf or BS today.

Unvote

[ooba]

I think the claim is genuine exactly for the reason that hider really doesn't fit the rainbow.
- If it's a mod given fakeclaim, then since they gave multicolored role name bit, I don't see why they would shaft a good fakeclaim by giving a role that doesn't fit
- If it is something scum came up with, I'd expect that the team which came up with the multicolor bit could do much better than hider

[ooba]

Plum, any specific instance where Andrius has made a scum fakeclaim stand out for the wrong reasons ?

BS, just claim the flavor please ..

[ooba]

My argument is that if I as a mod made a fakeclaim with the fancy colors bit, It sort of goes waste when I supplement it with a bad role match ..

Scum don’t have Daytalk.

How are you so certain about this?

[ooba]

I'm moving on - BS is town - this also puts gandalf and quadz into the I don't think they're a good lynch category .. (gandalf moves back to the must-be-stupic-town category since the BS links were the strongest thing I had on him. I don't see quadz scum doing "Lets policy lynch VI BS" - unless he was scum with her)

Town:
1. Baby Spice
4. AGar
5. Shadow Dancer
7. Iecerint
8. ooba CryMeARiver
11. Gemini (mockingjaye + Katy hydra)
13. MagnaofIllusion
14. Axelrod
19. diddin
20. chesskid3

15. gandalf5166
16. quadz08

Null\Scum reads:
2. Chronopie
10. Plum
17. mothrax
18. LordChronos
12. RangeroftheNorth

3. AurorousVox
6. Snow_Bunny
9. Dekes

AV-Dekes links

"Dekes, Diddin and BS are scummy. Diddin and BS are the worst most recently, with Diddin scummiest out of all three." -> Vox why didn't you vote Dekes instead of diddin at the end then?

"Willing to revote Diddin, but Iec's posting has been really scummy in the last few pages so.
Also would be willing to see BS lynched. A rainbow coloured PM doesn't make up for her scummy play." -> No mention of Dekes (your scummiest suspect in your catch up post?)

AV-SB links:

The lol discussion on the mod-vote.

Dekes-SB links:

(Minor) Dekes promising to look into SB ISO but never doing so ..

Any of the three is a reasonable lynch for today - I think a Dekes wagon would get the maximum traction.

Unvote. Vote: Dekes

---

P.S: Plum would still like to see the fakeclaim discussion\part where andy gives a wifom-fakeclaim role ..

[ooba]

Also irrespective of what lynch is happening today - please don't hammer until I give the go ahead .. I need to do something at L-1 ..

[ooba]

@ooba: Here, have this 50% off coupon that you can use to fix that scumradars of yours. It really needs some serious work on it.

Thanks But serious work implying you think the other two (Dekes, AV) are town too?

Yeah. This isn't even PRETENDING not to be a misrep, especially given the little rumbles of anti-Iec rhetoric elsewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AV

Unvote. Vote: AV

[ooba]

PREVIEW EDIT: Hooo boy.

What do you think of the SP? (Presumably BS's) ..

@SB: It's just vibe for you and diddin. diddin town read stronger than your scum read. We'll see how right that list was as the game goes along

See, this is tough. Iecerint is scummy as hell, but AV's misrep on Iece is scummy as all hell too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iece

Know that I'm down for a lynch on either one.

So both AV and Iece scum decide to start wagons on each other - given the other (mostly) mislynches available on diddin and BS? You find yourself booted from the maybe-town list to scum list , Quadz ..

[ooba]

See, this is tough. Iecerint is scummy as hell, but AV's misrep on Iece is scummy as all hell too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iece

Know that I'm down for a lynch on either one.

The two people who you think are scum are both voting each other when there are (probably) better-easier mislynches around .. How can down for a lynch on either one?

[ooba]

ebwop: How can *you be* down ...

[ooba]

With BabySpice and diddin as strong wagons already established there is little chance AV or Iec are going to be lynched today.

That's reality.

So now is the perfect time to do a little safe distancing with cross-votes such as those if they are indeed scum. Throwing out the possibility of having them be partners isn't logical.

With the mod message, the BS wagon was derailing .. And it's not that close to deadline that people would go "we really don't have the time, let's lynch ddiddn" .. With the slight anti-Iece current that was stirring up, it's a risky move ..

---

Just for you gandalf ..

Unvote. Vote: BS

[ooba]

Can we bit more fast with this gandalf\BS checking thing ..
~4.5 days till deadline ..

[ooba]

Hey ..
I'm down with an AV lynch ..
Would like to lynch quadz as the second person ..

---

Gandalf is an idiot
and I told you ddiddn was town ..

---

Going through Iece claims again ..

[ooba]

@ Ooba -- Did something similar to what AGM is describing happen to you when you joined?
I was sent a PM saying I was next on the list and if I would like to replace in .. No mass PMs

Here's the thing
- I think the Andy thought up "Jesus Lord Jesus" christ result due to AlGM past games theory is wrong.
- Like AlGms theory about normal being source (not target btw) knowing he/she was redirected and super being an undetectable one.
- So, lynch AV - If he flips Christmas - good. Otherwise, we'll re-evaluate the situation tomorrow. Iece should have one more result to compare.

---

I suggest we use a lynch1,lynch2 vote. People should avoid real voting ..

Lynch1: AV
Lynch2: Quadz

[ooba]

how about we ignore lynch 1 cuz its obv

lynch2: CHrono

also i'm a doublevoter since i'm nearly conftown

Why are you conftown?

AV -> Claim please

[ooba]

Claim:

Athena, Greek Goddess of Wisdom and Warfare

NORMAL: "Battle Armor"

Protect one player other than myself at night.

SUPER - "Strategic Assault"

A one-shot kill which cannot be prevented, but fails against Greek Gods.

^paraphrased role abilities. No passive.
Protected Gemini last night because they've been one of my strongest town reads and I though they were likeliest to take a hit.

Athena !!

Can you ask the mod if your super will have in thread flavor - its important ..

Also, Chrono - no on the "Grace" bit ..

[ooba]

Is there a reason for SD to not say who he "jailed" last Night?

This would at least presumably be someone who didn't do any killing.

Dekes.

I know for a fact I wasn't jailed last night.

This game gets a whole lot interesting ..
SD you go any flavor on your JK?

[ooba]

Ideally the best plan to resolve the 1 vs 1 on Iece and AV is to have
- AV shoot Iece. Since Iece claims to be a greek god, it should fail. Otherwise, Iece scum should die.
However, the only way to differentiate between AV using super and it failing and AV not having an ability is if there is a in-thread flavor confirmation of the flavor of somebody shooting.

---

I think the SD vs Dekes claim has another element to it but lets see ..

[ooba]

NOOOOOOOOO!! DAMN IT AND LISTEN: IEC IS TRUSTWORTHY I WILL EXPLAIN WHY WHEN TIME'S RIPE FOR IT.

I never said Iece was not trustworthy. But explain how that is not a foolproof plan for testing the 1 vs 1 ?

And was that a Dionysus-grapes-ripe pun?

[ooba]

Well
- If he is town, he should target you (Iece) since you've claimed a Super alignment check - which does not leave room for other explanations
- If he is scum and has the ability as advertised, then that means two scum teams, so he should shoot at the person who has best chance of being on the other team
- If he is scum and does not have the ability, he should at least tell us so that we can move on to Lynch2 discussion

[ooba]

im ok with gandalf dying too.

iirc i had him as scum

Nah . Gandalf is just terribly bad town .. Can't see the scum percentage in claiming and taking down a Hider .. That ability was secret and could have been used to take nearly anybody out with an early day vote ..

[ooba]

This game gets a whole lot interesting ..
SD you go any flavor on your JK?

1. He explained the flavor previously. Pay attention.
2. Why did it get more interesting? Elaborate please.

Ideally the best plan to resolve the 1 vs 1 on Iece and AV is to have
- AV shoot Iece. Since Iece claims to be a greek god, it should fail. Otherwise, Iece scum should die.
However, the only way to differentiate between AV using super and it failing and AV not having an ability is if there is a in-thread flavor confirmation of the flavor of somebody shooting.

Directing the scum-Vig theoretical shot robs us of AV actively choosing himself. Bad thought proves.

No .. If AV is town, shooting anybody but Iece would be a mistake. Given gandalf's play on D1 - which I would have opposed - spelling it out makes a lot of sense ..

And missed the reply from SD but "got any flavor on your JK" means "Did you get any return PM(flavor) that your JK went through" - that's what I wanted to know ..

Claims and counter claims are always interesting ..

[ooba]

To make it clear again: There is basically no leeway for AV being town, and Iec is almost surely saying the truth. So I don't even want to try to unerstand your mumbling about two scum teams and whatnot in #907.

Are you trying to be to Iece what Agar was to you? To reiterate, Iece is one of my strongest town reads. However, if AV is town, he should shoot Iece:
- Iece uses alignment super on AV
- Supers cannot be disrupted by other powers
- Therefore only two possible explanations remain - AV is scum (or) Iece is lying scum
- Town AV shooting anybody else doesn't make sense ..

edit: I think you can guess why he's sure he was not JK'd. I don't see a reasons as to why Dekes should claim ..

[ooba]

But this is not a good scumgambit on Iece's part so I strongly disagree with AV shooting Iece

If AV is town, he needs to shoot Iece since AV/Iece cannot share same alignment with Iece's claim
If AV is scum, then using "Strategic Assault" on Iece is a waste since obviously Iece is telling the truth and is greek. He can shoot somebody else .. I'd suggest quadz .. (Chrono remains null-leaning town for me)

[ooba]

If AV is scum.......direct AV's shot as if he's town

FAIL

OOBA JUST CLAIMED SCUM YO BY INADVERTENTLY CLAIMING THAT AV WAS NOT ON HIS SCUMTEAM AND THUS IN HIS MIND TOWN

ONLY WAY HE WOULD MAKE THIS MISTAKE

What mistake is that?
If scum is scum and has Strategic assault as advertised, then
- There are two scum teams (since a super just useful on one-SK seems underpowered)
- He'll be trying to shoot a person from the opposite scum team with the super
What I can give are suggestions in this case. Whether he\his scum team chooses to use them will tell town a lot about AV's partners if he's scum.

[ooba]

>YOU BELIEVE HIS CLAIM 100% BECAUSE HE WASNT ON YOURSCUMTEAM

ITS TOO LATE OOBA
TOO LATE

I never believed his claim 100%..

Well
- If he is town, he should target you (Iece) since you've claimed a Super alignment check - which does not leave room for other explanations
- If he is scum and has the ability as advertised, then that means two scum teams, so he should shoot at the person who has best chance of being on the other team
- If he is scum and does not have the ability, he should at least tell us so that we can move on to Lynch2 discussion

[ooba]

No it is not. If he has a result he does not need to claim it. But he could claim that he has confirmation that his normal went through.

I know for a fact I wasn't jailed last night.

Because I know I wasn't.

[ooba]

and who the hell would waste a roleblock on SD? He's so bad he was pratically guaranteed to hit town soooooooo

Is this you claiming you had nothing to do with "blocking" SD - I was actually putting my money on you ..

common sense would indicate dekes is RB immune

That's quite a leap ..

Quadz 948,950 & 956 is why he is scum - posting a lot of info but no real thoughts on who is scummy etc.

Iece - I'm town as always - not sure what you're seeing ..

[ooba]

Town

7. Iecerint
15. gandalf5166
9. Dekes -> Based on what I think he is

13. MagnaofIllusion
14. Axelrod
11. Gemini (mockingjaye + Katy hydra)
4. AGar

2. Chronopie -> Based on Ability

Neutral

5. Shadow Dancer -> Leaning Town but what gandalf said
20. chesskid3

Scum

3. AurorousVox

16. quadz08
17. mothrax
18. LordChronos
12. AlmasterGM RangeroftheNorth

[ooba]

But this is not a good scumgambit on Iece's part so I strongly disagree with AV shooting Iece

If AV is town, he needs to shoot Iece since AV/Iece cannot share same alignment with Iece's claim
If AV is scum, then using "Strategic Assault" on Iece is a waste since obviously Iece is telling the truth and is greek. He can shoot somebody else .. I'd suggest quadz .. (Chrono remains null-leaning town for me)

You're forgetting that this can be used as a cop investigation........ Is there any point to confirming Iec as town? And plus, if Iec IS lying, then shooting him is effectively a waste.

If Iec is lying -> Iec is scum -> AV town cannot make a better shot than that.
If AV flips scum, then the shot failing tells us nothing - Could be town, could be AV scum wifoming that he shot one of his partners ..

[ooba]

Gandalf is obviously town .. I know you'd like another mislynch but try elsewhere CK ..

[ooba]

nice mudsling

tell me what mislynch from yesterday I supported, if you're going to use the word ANOTHER to slander me, eh?

A player who is not confirmed = a possible mislynch for scum. By arguing for let's not confirm gandalf, you're adding another player who can possibly be lynched over your scumbuddies ..

[ooba]

Gandalf is obviously town .. I know you'd like

another

mislynch but try elsewhere CK ..

PLEASE POINT ME TO THE FIRST MISLYNCH I TRIED TO GET

THANKS IN ADVANCE

I've already told you what I meant. Another mislynch meaning adding to the current mislynches you're trying to get lined up (like Chrono)

[ooba]

LETS SEE BS TOWN CHECK

SB TOWN....CHECK

Ddiddn - Town - Check ..
Chrono - Most. Prob. Town - Check ..
Gandalf - Most. Prob Town - Check ..

[ooba]

- You voted Diddin after the BS wagon derailed (even when Iec\me were trying to form a competing wagon on AV)
- Player positions on a player list has absolutely no relevance to whether they are scum or not
- You've been after LC all game. So what?

Btw, end of D1 Flavor does not support a day kill

[ooba]

Pedit: because it's guaranteed to be incorrect, so i find it funny that he's calling me scum because of

"bad reads" when his are going to suck

- Not bad reads. Trying to get gandalf and Chrono lynched today when better targets like Quadz are out there.
- And how are sure that my reads are going to suck?

[ooba]

Pedit: because it's guaranteed to be incorrect, so i find it funny that he's calling me scum because of "bad reads"

when his are going to suck

Ok - just noticed this - How the fuck are you so sure I'm town?

[ooba]

Pedit: because it's guaranteed to be incorrect, so i find it funny that he's calling me scum because of "bad reads"

when his are going to suck

Ok - just noticed this - How the fuck are you so sure I'm town?

where in the fuck did i say you were town?

You didn't say "He made up shit reads" - which would imply you thought I was scum .. You said "my reads sucked" implying town ..

@AlGm
PoE. All the others I don't want to lynch because of Play/Ability
Out of the 6 people I have as scum, AV is all-but-confirmed, and stronger scum reads on {Chess,Quadz,AlGm}. A stronger scum read on you because Ranger ignored this game for some reason while posting in others.

[ooba]

Plus there is the Jesus result, I find it hard to believe And would just make up a fake-result for Iec based on your past games as God/Jesus ..

[ooba]

So forcing AV to choose a “suspect” gives us potential relational information.

I disagree here. If the majority of the town goes "Quadz, Quadz!!" and AV chooses not to kill Quadz, that gives us more info than AV choosing independently without any other opinions.

Oh really? Bolded – been hitting the Weed too hard ooba?

I was referring to the fact that I've never been scum in a game with Iec. (I remember Greek mythology, Plum's game where Iece was a wolf, Inception mafia, oGaM)

---

Avox, the fact that you haven't gone "I'm town - Iec declared me as scum with a super - Die Iec scum, die!" points to you being scum. So what you can do before you're lynched
- Tell us if you really have that power and save us the time.
- I'm going with two scum team theory here. Any info on the other team would be good.

[ooba]

Actually, changed my mind and decided to use it on

Ooba.

Iec is confirmed scum as you'll see when I flip town if you guys still lynch me.

I can only guess that you're scum,don't have the power and decided to WIFOM the town on me before you get lynched so that I'm Lynch2 .. The real question is whether you did this to save AGM or Quadz?

P-edit: @Iece - I won't die even if he's telling the truth.

[ooba]

Let's move on, shall we?

---

Unofficial Lynch 2 Count –

Quadz (3)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini
LordChronos (1) - Chesskid
AGM (1) – MoI
Dekes (2)– AGar, ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
ooba (1) - Mothrax
Not voting (6) – Iecerint, Chronopie, AGM, Axelrod, Quadz, LordChronos

We really don’t care since it is likely WIFOM bait (1) – AV

---

P-edit: @Iece - I won't die even if he's telling the truth.

Now, why would you say this? Assuming you are saying what I think you are saying.

The power as advertised, would not work on Greek gods?

[ooba]

I got it, you're going to play kindergarden until we shut you up via lynch (can we please make this quick now?)

Unofficial Lynch 2 Count –

Quadz (3)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini
LordChronos (1) - Chesskid
AGM (2) – MoI, AGar
Dekes (1)– ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
ooba (1) - Mothrax
Not voting (6) – Iecerint, Chronopie, AGM, Axelrod, Quadz, LordChronos

We really don’t care since it is likely WIFOM bait (1) – AV[/quote]@AV - Magna's wording, not mine - but agree with it

@SD - Need to decide on L2 before we can lynch AV - Your vote is wasted on Dekes, if you want to make it quick, you should shift it ..

[ooba]

Quadz (5)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI, Chesskid
Dekes (2)– AGar, ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
Iecerint (1) - AV

Not voting (7) – Iecerint, Chronopie, AGM, Axelrod, Quadz, Mothrax, LordChronos

---

And Ooba, was there a reason Dekes wasn't still on the table for second lynch that I have missed?

Yes - call it a secret townie tell on my side ..

[ooba]

@Gemini: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY ROLE

I have already fullclaimed my role. It has something to do with SOMEONE ELSES ROLE. Basically, I know that SD is not SK and that neither Dekes or SD is lying.

You're a liar if you're saying you knew that on N1 when you made your Night choice !!

[ooba]

chesskid's arguments about humans noticing patterns is actually extremely good. It has nothing to do with statistics. The point is that humans are more likely to subconsciously think a series of numbers is not random if it has a pattern. However, I disagree with the end conclusion - in my mind, the numbers being consecutive seem more attributable to laziness during fabrication.

Lynch 2: Gandalf

The reasoning (chesskids argument) is actually a point against me. Why would you quote that and then vote gandalf?

---

Lynch 2 VC
Quadz (5)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI, Chesskid
AGM(1) - AGar, Quadz, LordChronos
Dekes (2)– ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
Iecerint (1) - AV
Gandalf (1) - Mothrax, AGM

Not voting (7) – Iecerint, Chronopie, Axelrod

---

Mothrax, you said you had a case on me?
Also happy with my Quadz vote .. Not much traction for the wagon ..

[ooba]

ebwop: Forgot to change the numbers

Lynch 2 VC

Quadz (5)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI, Chesskid
AGM(3) - AGar, Quadz, LordChronos
Dekes (1)– ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
Iecerint (1) - AV
Gandalf (2) - Mothrax, AGM

Not voting (3) – Iecerint, Chronopie, Axelrod

[ooba]

@Gemini: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY ROLE

I have already fullclaimed my role. It has something to do with SOMEONE ELSES ROLE. Basically, I know that SD is not SK and that neither Dekes or SD is lying.

You're a liar if you're saying you knew that on N1 when you made your Night choice !!

You can't be this dense. You can't be this dense. You can't be this dense...

At this point I'm just ready to blow at this game. So much stupidity it isn't funny. Argh.

AGM needs the death with AV. AGM is playing scummy, just basically trying to coast and justify it. AV's whole claim reeks of shit. We have two lynches today. One is probably lying. This cleans up it all.

I don't have whatever inside info gandalf is hinting at. I do have my own assumptions on what Dekes is talking about and that does not compute with Gandalf's reasoning that "I knew Dekes and SD were not SK during N1 and I choose Iec -> AGM" ..

"One is probably lying" -> Read the game more properly. AV is definetly lying. If he was town, he definitely would have shot Iec. Also Quadz is a much better Lynch2 than AGM.

---

@SD: You're right that I do not want any lynch to go through before I "do something". I hate the "eventual Ooba-lynch until tomorrow" part though ..

[ooba]

Dropping it because whatever it is - you seem genuine about it ..

Lynch 2 VC

Quadz (5)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI
AGM(3) - AGar, Quadz, LordChronos
Dekes (1)– ShadowDancer
Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
Iecerint (1) - AV
Gandalf (2) - Mothrax, AGM
LC (1) - Chesskid

Not voting (3) – Iecerint, Chronopie, Axelrod

---

@Gandalf, @Shadow - Both your votes are wasted - makes sense to vote someone who has a chance of getting lynched - going by perception that's going to be one of {Quadz,AGM}. Other minor lynch possibilities are {LC,me}.
@Iece, Chrono, Axelrod - you should vote for Lynch2 ..

[ooba]

Lynch 2 VC

Quadz (4)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI
AGM(6) - AGar, Quadz, LordChronos, SD, Gandalf, Chronopie
Iecerint (1) - AV
Gandalf (1) - Mothrax
LC (2) - Chesskid, AGM

Not voting (2) – Iecerint, , Axelrod

[ooba]

Ninja'd by magna.

Claim: Asclepius, Greek God of Medicine.
Normal Power: Medicine (aka Doctor, stops first kill attempt on target)
Super Power: Sorority of Health (aka limited invincibility, stops next 3 kill attempts on target for the rest of the game)

Obviously none of my powers are directly provable without wasting a Vig shot or something, so there's not any room confirmation. I'll obviously be using my super before I am lynched, though.

Btw what color is your role name in?

[ooba]

Have a small insight into the colors - was just checking that out ..

---

Quadz have I got this right? - {AV, Quadz, mothrax, LC, chronopie}.
Was torn between that and {AV, Quadz, mothrax, chess, AGM} but the sudden AGM push made me consider the former as more probable.

Here's why a Quadz lynch is better than a AGM lynch ..
- Gives us one more day to see what Iece's results are about
- I'd really have expected scum to come up with a better claim result than "I protected Magna" because somebody in the team would have pointed out the "Hated townie" claim to the replacement
- Quadz-AV interaction seem more like weak bussing than anything. Voted AV as the biggest scumread (after the Agar-SD incident), moved to null in between and then voted Iec over AV even though both were scummy as hell. And once Iec declares his result on D2, he's like "Yup always wanted AV lynched. Let's do it".

---

I kinda want to wait to lynch AGM until we see if Iec's normal is legit. And I don't get the case on quadz. So yes, I'm voting for someone else.

It's a wasted vote since that lynch won't happen today. You should either move your vote to one of the wagons (or) if you think all the wagons are town, you should convince others why those people are town and why your candidate is better.

[ooba]

So how are we handling my doublevote? Where am I putting them? Split or both on 1? I can do either.

Depends, we already have two votes on AV (Iece, AGM). Ideally we should go 1 vote on Av, 1 vote on Lynch2 like Magna said.

Nothing on AGM's claim?

[ooba]

well diddin is a fuckhead for killing obvtown then

If you had to choose, which one - AGM or Quadz?

[ooba]

*facepalm*
Stop pushing SD folks ..

---

Lynch 2 VC

Quadz (6)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini, MoI, LC, AGM
LordChronos (2) – Chesskid
AGM (5) – AGar, Quadz, ShadowDancer, Gandalf, Chronopie
Gandalf (2) – Mothrax, AGM,
Iecerint (1) - AV
Not voting (2) – Iecerint, Axelrod

With Axel's prob vote, Quadz its time for you to claim

---

edit: I'm not claiming at L-1 of the lynch - There's just something I need to do after we are sure on who we're lynching but before the actual lynch goes through!

[ooba]

- Of all the three you've listed, mothrax is def. scum with his L2 voting first on me, then on Gandalf.
- The "I def. wasn't RB'd" made me turn around on Dekes.
- Have a town read on Axel - wasn't thrilled with him not putting down an actual L2 vote - but at least his thoughts on who he thought were scum were always clear ..

[ooba]

Quadz, can we have a claim please?

[ooba]

Lol .. You do know Lynch2 is an unofficial thing right?

As an aside, for the original players in GM Mafia - If the spec is true, SB was vigged by Ares vig on N1 both times.

I don't like the fact that Athena is a fake claim though!

[ooba]

Someone wanted Ooba to claim? Uhhh why? Same goes for Quadz - let's not just fucking have everyone claim right now please

We have 7 votes for Lynch2 on Quadz. He needs to claim. I'm not going to claim - that was SD's misunderstanding ..

P-edit: You're at 7 votes for lynch2 quadz. You're the top candidate for a lynch and have reached the requisite votes. And claim fully please ..

[ooba]

I would have probably asked Quadz to stump anyway, given that his normal was way above the standard power curve seen so far. I mean Hellfire gave us two lynches - which I would have equated with a superpower than normal (and it's just one of the options of the normal).

Lynch2: Mothrax

[ooba]

Lynch 2 VC

Mothrax (3) – ooba, AGar, ShadowDancer
Iecerint (1) - AV
Not voting (2) – Iecerint, Axelrod, , Dekes, Gemini, MoI, LC, AGM, Gandalf, Chronopie, Chesskid, Mothrax, AGM,

---

Calling it now - chess is scum and will probably get crosskilled

[ooba]

---

Calling it now - chess is scum and will probably get crosskilled

aka you're killing me tonight?

Yup. How will I have an easy win if I allow you to continue calling me scum?

[ooba]

{LC,Mothrax,Chrono,AV} + SK

{or)

{LC,Mothrax,Chrono}
{AV,chess,AGM}

---

I'm pretty certain of my Axel town read .. Let's not lynch him please ..

[ooba]

what the hell is that

Lol - my scum reads with team split .. I'll vote LC if it comes down to LC vs Axel ..

[ooba]

lololol scumclaim

Um, no. Try thinking for a minute.

I cannot construct an argument that proves me town without involving powers/roles.

Neither can anyone else. Make sense now? Logic is hard, I know.

I can think of one argument for myself without involving power/roles - "AV is scum. I am town because I pushed for a AV lynch towards the end of the day when the BS lynch wagon was shifting to other candidates"
(or something I can use after today)
"I am town because I lynched mothrax scum"
Of course, you'd bring up bussing as a counter but people can generally make out genuineness.

---

Chess I can see you going for a diddin shot too since you had him as scum at the end of the day ..

[ooba]

Lynch 2 VC

Mothrax (4) – ooba, AGar, Dekes, Iecerint
Axelrod (5) - MoI, Gandalf, ShadowDancer, Gemini, LC
LC (1) - Chesskid,
AGar (1) - AGM
Iecerint (1) - AV
Not voting (3) – Axelrod, Chronopie, Mothrax

---

So nobody thinks its scummy that chrono posts
- Doesn't weigh in on Axel vs mothrax
- Doesn't Give his thoughts about AGM's claim
- Doesn't tell us who is a good L2 for today

[ooba]

Chronopie is V/LA until Monday.
mothrax has requested replacement. Going to blanket-PM the replacement list. Not going to wait around to do a one-by-one again.

We should get an extension due to this ..

[ooba]

That was directed at chess ..

[ooba]

doesn't hurt ot get like 3 votes on AV 3 votes on one of mothrax/whoever the other target is though

AurorusVox [1] - Iecerint, MagnaofIllusion
Iecerint [1] - AurorusVox
LordChronos [1] - chesskid3

Unvote. Vote: LC

Please note: I am still in favor of a Mothrax lynch. However voting LC so that Iecerint does not become L2 by default in case of one more vote on AV and a scum executioner type role. (Although prob-town gandalf having a similar role means its not likely - better safe than sorry).

[ooba]

unvote[\b] for now ..

[ooba]

Unvote

[ooba]

@Charon: Haven't watched the movie .. But thought books were good ..

AV - if there are really two scum teams, any info you can give us to help lynch them would be welcome. After all your team will be at a disadvantage after your lynch. Helping us helps you.

[ooba]

Hey Conspiracy,

He has not got back on that extension. I think you need to full claim - that shouldn't take much of your time and will keep the game going till you're done with your exams ..

[ooba]

Hestia - queen of family orsumthin

Roleblocker
Super - roleblock 3 peepz next night

Umm, you do realize this is a dicey situation right and town needs to make decisions based on this? Can you clarify what it exactly says in your role PM + please paraphrase flavor + give power names if any.

[ooba]

(Apparently not a 3 double roleblock, but the other way around)

Because a triple roleblock would be easier confirmable than what you're presenting us now, right? Botched claim is botched.

And you're lying, just saying.

You're saying you think he's lying since the claim is botched and false (or) because you have role based info contradicting the claim?

[ooba]

Lol, instant lynch coming up.

I apparently roleblocked Agar...

Clearer version of my role pm:
I am: Hestia, Greek Goddess of The Hearth and Family.
I don't have a passive
Active: Blackout -> extinguising somebody's temple's hearth/RB
Super: Sanctuari -> All people targeting 3 people will fail in their action (Apparently not a 3 double roleblock, but the other way around)

Good enough? I can almost vote myself. Roleblocking Agar, please...

Forgot, Role PM color please?

[ooba]

Okay, so either chess or mothrax(calling CS mothrax because that way it's easier to connect the two) is scum. I think they both are. Which one to lynch?

Let's wait on the role PM color answer ..

[ooba]

uhhhhhhhhh except I'm Aphrodite sooooooooooo

Lol. Why did you find the need to claim right now? Also Role PM color?

[ooba]

If you are Town then please confirm that you will use this Super before you are lynched on the following 3 players – AGM, Shadow and AGar.

Iecerint instead of AGM please.

[ooba]

Chronopie, I don't need someone to tell me what happened because I can read the thread myself. Give me your opinion.

I disagree on the "Let's lynch CK if Cons is town" chain lynching by Magna.

Vote: Conspiracy

AurorusVox [2] - Iecerint, MagnaofIllusion
Conspiracy [2] - Shadow Dancer, ooba
LordChronos [1] - chesskid3
Iecerint [1] - AurorusVox

Not Voting [8] - Chronopie, Dekes, AlmasterGM, Axelrod, Conspiracy, LordChronos, ooba, Gemini, AGarx2

[ooba]

Magna, the reasoning on keeping AGM on the list there is sound enough. Conspiracy, if you're town, make it so.

---

Well part of the reason why I think three RB roles would be good is that, a week back I made an experimental setup with three anti town factions [1 SK plus an even\odd night killing scum team] + vig and a doc, 2 RBs and 1 JK. Just because it is anti-meta doesn't mean its not possible. I certainly wouldn't call it a logical leap from "Conspiracy town" -> "Chess scum".

[ooba]

Question - can you give me reasons based on Dayplay why you think Chess absolutely can't be scum if Conspiracy flips Town?

Yes. Who is chess scum with then? He's been dogging Chrono, LC for the most part of the game. Only AGM as a partner is a possibility.

[ooba]

Yes. Who is chess scum with then? He's been dogging Chrono, LC for the most part of the game. Only AGM as a partner is a possibility.

Whut? You are jumping directly to Partnership pairings?

1. Why can't he be distancing the hell out of either Chrono or LC?
2. There are more players on the list still alive aside from those three and AV. Why is your Partner speculation restricted to them? Where is Axelrod on this list? Gemini? Gandalf? Me?

At this point I don't want to get into a big conflict about this. Conspiracy's flip needs to happen before I really go digging into Chess's ISO.

I always think of a game in terms of linkages ..
1. Too genuine to be distancing
2. Axel = Gemini = Town. I've also put you down to probable town based on claim. Gandalf play post BS power usage = Town.

I also agree that a Conspiracy flip will help my reads ..

[ooba]

Color is light blue.

Ok - this doesn't gel with whatever color theory I had - much more confident in this lynch now ..

[ooba]

He's not flailing at this point. He's trying to entertain us.

In that case,
Also, AV should post funny pics like the original Greek mythology (or) Thor jokes Funny thing in this game is that he might even be Thor ..

[ooba]

@Ooba: Are you ready to work your magic as promissed?

I've already done what I needed to do since we've decided on the lynches. There's no reason to hold up the lynch for me now ..

[ooba]

=====[]

Lol. You should have self-hammer'd for the lynch and posted this link.

Really need to read Alex's wall posts on everyone to see if it changes my read on him ..

[ooba]

Too bad that I had to replace in this slot at a busy time.
I loved the game and the theme, oh well.

You scum?

[ooba]

- I think I was right in my theory about two scum teams.

- I think Iece's normal ability is insane with random pre-determined results. I don't expect either Jesus christ or the Hindu mythology to make an entry into this game. Plus "Shiva, the destroyer" does not fit into the framework we've seen for all roles so far - "X, god of Y". I would say norse has the best chance of being the other pantheon - cool gods.

"Turned to sand" is obviously egyptian. Therefore, we've looking at
Egyptian scumteam (AV, Conspiracy, ???)
- Killed Plum N1
- Kill Blocked\Failed N2
Norse? scumteam (LC, ???, ???)
- Killed diddin N1
- Killed X N2 but was redirected by Gandalf
Will look at play\votes to see who fits best as the other scum.

Vote: LC

for now.

[ooba]

My passive power is that I am part of a neighborhood, which I won't say who else is there yet.

Simple Question - Does this neighborhood have day-talk?

[ooba]

Ooba, is it valuable for you to claim what you did to the AV's wagon yesterday?

Nah. The info which I got does not have to be divulged right now as it is irrelevant. But it will be obvious when I claim.

I blocked lc. Votes off plz? Though only 1 death shrug

You could have at least asked him if he was able to talk to SB right now before claiming this ..

[ooba]

The best place to start hunting for the last(?) egyptian would be the L2 votes after the treestump of Quadz

mothrax - ooba, Agar, Dekes, Iece
Axel - MoI, gandalf, SD, Gemini, LC
Agar - AlGM
LC - chess

- I am looking at those who chose the Axel wagon over the mothrax wagon.
- chess and AlGM would have probably jumped on the Axel wagon instead of going random wagon on somebody else since mothrax was the counterwagon.
- I am eliminating gandalf, SD since they are obv town. Would have eliminated Gemini too due to my town read on her but "We asked Andy if we could vote No Lynch for a second lynch" looks suspicious to me.
- Also added Chronopie .. He didn't play at all close to the wagon and this post in particular seems scummy .. Boosting up the 1vs1 on chessVsMothrax roleblocking and implicating chess for an "on-death" power

Therefore last Egyptian should be in {MoI, LC, Gemini, Chrono} if I am not mistaken

Will review earlier play to narrow it down. Will also hunt for the norse(?) trio.

[ooba]

@ooba – Is the use of your super the reason why you are so sure we are in a multiple scum set-up with

Norse Mafia

as the second faction? Otherwise I believe you are jumping to strongly unsupported conclusions at this stage.

The Norse part is pure guesswork. The rest is based on spec ..
- Going by N1 kills, its obvious SB was a diddin vig shot. Therefore the other two are scum shots (Hider was dead and I don't see bodyguard or other dying roles).
- The wording (Aligned with the X Pantheon) seems to imply X can take more than two values since otherwise Town\Mafia\SK would have been easier. Also pantheon by definition is a group, meaning 3/3 is more likely than 4/1 - since a single guy cannot be a pantheon ..

That Conspiracy’s claim and very self-sacrificing play was a gambit designed to buy Chesskid Town cred since a claimed Role-blocker flipping Scum would bolster his claim?

- I think AV was telling the truth about his normal (Goddess of Protection).Cannot really make out what powers would go with "Goddess of Magic and Womanhood". But since one person from the team claimed actual powers, I think it's likely that Cons claimed actual roleblocking powers.

P-edit: @Gandalf: Seth,Ra,Aphophis(Although I'm not sure if the last is a god or king)
@Iece: It must be karma

[ooba]

Ooba is the one player who sticks out as a possible distance from mothrax.

Meh. You should read my ISO to see I can't possibly be an egyptian.
- AV attack on D1 post BS wagon dying down
- Started Mothrax voting after Quadz treestump

SD, who did you keep last night? It may narrow down our pool of lynches.

Pretty sure this is Chronopie but SD can correct me if he wishes to.

P-edit: You have your theories of which is more probable - I have mine. Unless I find evidence to the contrary, I'll run with 3/3.

[ooba]

I am Thanatos, Greek God of Death and Mortality.

My passive power is that I am part of a neighborhood, which I won't say who else is there yet.
My normal power is Whisper, which let's me target a dead player each night and speak to them for the following day and night.
My super is Commune, which establishes permanent communication between me and a dead player for the rest of the game. Haven't used it yet.

Night 1 I targeted Baby Spice, Night 2 I targeted Snow_Bunny.

LC, since you haven't explicitly mentioned this in thread, did a QT get established between you and SB?

[ooba]

I would like

some

kind of response from Ooba and Dekes considering their use of super powers.

- I have used my super power
- I used it before yesterday's lynch
- Don't see the purpose in claiming anything else right now; if it arises, I'll claim (or) during MC (or) if it looks like I'll be lynched

[ooba]

Thinking about using my super on Axel. If someone has a compelling reason for me not to do so, please let me know.

It's good. Law and order also means he might be informational - he has three nights of possible results .. Do it ..

[ooba]

LC, here's the thing:

Axelrod last visited the site on ..

Last visited: Wed May 20, 2011 9:42 pm

which was even before the day started!

So all this QT creation (which you had to do in-thread lol) and questions for Axel is a fraud and nothing more than a role\night action fishing attempt while saving your own skin.

Die, scum, die!!

[ooba]

And Iece, hold it on the day-kill, maybe he's willing to give us details about the other team (egyptian\norse?) before he's killed, unlike AV ..

[ooba]

LC, here's the thing:

Axelrod last visited the site on ..

Last visited: Wed May 20, 2011 9:42 pm

which was even before the day started!

So all this QT creation (which you had to do in-thread lol) and questions for Axel is a fraud and nothing more than a role\night action fishing attempt while saving your own skin.

Die, scum, die!!

I guess it's not possible for Axelrod to be reading the thread while logged in with the hide online button checked. Also, when I go look at Axel's member page it doesn't even have a last visit time listed.

This is why you should check utils. utils lists the last time they logged on to the site - hidden\not hidden - meaning he couldn't have got the PM for the hypothetical QT which was created ..

[ooba]

@LC: Was testing you out - of course there is nothing on utils .. Basically it's because I find this entire Axel thing suspicious ..
- Why do you have to do it in thread ?? (Commune)
- A super claim which has an exception. The only exception to a super I can think of is another super like a scum super kill which passes all blocks - why would they use it on Axel instead of Iece?
- These bunch of questions - "Who did AGM Doc protect on N2. Is there a reason not to say?"

I wish at least one of you (SD\MoI) had caught on and supported me on this ..

[ooba]

@LC: Was testing you out - of course there is nothing on utils .. Basically it's because I find this entire Axel thing suspicious ..
- Why do you have to do it in thread ?? (Commune)
- A super claim which has an exception. The only exception to a super I can think of is another super like a scum super kill which passes all blocks - why would they use it on Axel instead of Iece?
- These bunch of questions - "Who did AGM Doc protect on N2. Is there a reason not to say?"

I wish at least one of you (SD\MoI) had caught on and supported me on this ..

I'm actually now not sure I needed to use commune in thread, I don't think. I was not thinking that clearly when I posted it in thread.

Oh my god. If only I had thought of that before making it up. After all, claiming that Axel's super had an exception adds so much to my credibility here. /sarcasmoff

What about the bunch of questions do you find suspicious exactly?

Just the fact that he'd ask so many questions. If I was a dead guy I'd concentrate on the following
- Try to prove to the others that the Conduit (person who talks to dead people aka Bruce Willis) is not lying - Maybe show them a breadcrumb I posted earlier or claim something which I would know
- Use role info I have to ferret out scum i.e ask for specific claim(s) from someone and see if I can counterclaim
These questions are far too generic to serve any purpose. Questions like "Who did chess block N1" almost seem to be designed so that other scum buddies claiming today won't be caught in a counterclaim ..

[ooba]

- Axel could have crumbed "Zeus"
- "He never claimed he had to do it in thread!" - and the point being? I am acusing him of lying and if you're telling me he actually did it in thread when he didn't have to then its a point on my side ..
- Give me another power which could override a super power protect. A scum super mass roleblock comes to mind but Iece got his result.
And I didn't ask you to lynch him based on the stunt I pulled. I wanted reactions - I can see the last egyptian going "Ah shucks I tried" without verifying it ..

[ooba]

- Axel could have crumbed "Zeus"
- "He never claimed he had to do it in thread!" - and the point being? I am acusing him of lying and if you're telling me he actually did it in thread when he didn't have to then its a point on my side ..
- Give me another power which could override a super power protect. A scum super mass roleblock comes to mind but Iece got his result.
And I didn't ask you to lynch him based on the stunt I pulled. I wanted reactions - I can see the last egyptian going "Ah shucks I tried" without verifying it ..

Wow, that'd be useful. Axel pointing out a Zeus crumb when he is mod-confirmed to be Zeus.

It would prove that you're in contact with Axel. Learn to read (my other posts) please ..

[ooba]

A point with no score... How's it scummy to do it in thread?

If he has the ability, its null either way
If he is a liar, then he would have obviously had to do it in thread for effect

Iec got hius normal result - and why does a super RB need to be a mass effect?

A super which just stops supers on a particular night and doesn't affect normals - that in itself seems too powered down - but I'll run with it .. So assuming AGM is town, I as scum would see him using that super on Iece - so why wouldn't I use super role block and kill Iece instead of Axel (AGM doc won't obviously protect Iece as his super is there)? ..

[ooba]

So the approach for today, assuming we want to move on the claims we have, would hang on the set-up. IMO there is too much unknown flowing around to get an absolute feel where we can make concrete sense out of the puzzle we have. So I’m going to continue to hunt via behavioral tells.

This is the smartest thing I've heard anybody say all day.

Absolutely hate the ‘gotcha’ gambit by ooba. If LC is lying he is lying. You aren’t going to be able to prove anything (unless there is an ability I don’t know about) with tricky play, IMO.

It was worth a shot, IMO.

You’ve already used it. It isn’t coming back. If it delivered any sorts of viable information holding onto it risks losing it to a NK (if you are Town). The only reason not to disclose is that it gives away your Normal ability.

Trust me on this please.

---

I'm not sure on the 1vs1 on LC\Axel and gandalf. Again projecting but I can potentially see both those roles in the game (as town). Also
- Gandalf's absolute insistence on D2 saying he was *confirmed* was a town tell for me
- mothrax's D2 L2 vote on gandalf make me think gandalf is not egyptian for sure
I'll go throw the ISOs of everyone again and post my thoughts ..

[ooba]

That reads pretty self-aware. You know, like someone who's purposely been distancing so that in ISO they don't look like a buddy.

I'm just telling you the truth ma'am. I honestly think we could have got AV lynched D1 - it boiled down to convincing those who didn't believe in the diddin lynch to vote AV - but gandalf close down that option.

Our superpower is a rolecop, which we haven't used yet, and with so many conflicting claims/actions we think that what we want to do is use it today. We can either use it on an unknown target of our choice, or we can use it on a target that town chooses. We thought it might be interesting to see what targets players chose if we put the choice up to the town.

What Iece said
- Rolename cop?
- Normal power cop?
- Super power cop?
- Both of the above?

[ooba]

We get the role PM without any buddy names or QT links.

Excellent. Gimme a sec while I reply to your question as to who best it would be used on ...

[ooba]

Initially I was going to say that you should use your power on one of us who hadn't full claimed so that we can confirm you too by asking you to guess the name or normal first but realized confirming you through flavor in the PM is the easiest way.

---

We have

12

11 valid targets (excluding quadz and you) .. You can rule out these three as targets ..

Iecerint, Dionysus, Greek God of Wine and Ecstasy
MagnaofIllusion, Hephaestus, Greek God of Technology, Blacksmiths, and Volcanoes
Shadow Dancer, Poseidon, Greek God of TheSea and Earthquakes

I am town. I believe my town reads on Dekes, gandalf. Agar's recent posts have worried me. Other than him there are LC, Chrono, Chess & AGM.

Chronopie, Hebe, Greek Goddess of Youth
AlmasterGM, Asclepius, Greek God of Medicine
LordChronos, Thanatos, Greek God of Death and Mortality
chesskid3, Aphrodite, Greek Goddess of derpderp

Looking at the claims alone, chess would be the best choice as the liar - aka because scum would have at least two fakeclaims of gods from the main 12. But I'll do better than this - will go through the ISOs (of these 5 plus Dekes, Gandalf and yourself) and give you my call on the probable second scum team + last egyptian ..

---

Also going through the wiki for Olympians gives me a lot of setup insights ..
- LC, you were in a QT with Hades and Persephone
- Amphitrite serves well as a good fakeclaim since Hades\Persephone would flip Greek God of The Underworld and Queen of The Underworld, and when Poseidon flips Greek God of The Sea, you immediately feel like Queen of The Sea is a valid claim. (Alternatively, Amphirite could exist to boost Hades as a fakeclaim)
- Hera is not in this game

[ooba]

- Hera is not in this game

Ignore this bit. I counted one player less ..

[ooba]

Got it, if it is 3/3, these are the scum teams
Norse(?): Agar, Chess, AGM
+ last Egyptian (LC)

If it is 4/2, Egyptians are dead and
Norse(?): Agar, Chess, AGM + Dekes

But I'd put my money on the 3/3.

---

Anyway, my vote is for you to please use your ability on Agar.

From a long term perspective, I can see all of these other people being scrutinized\lynched - except for Agar.

[ooba]

Why do you consider that you trust your town reads such a relavant fact in deciding whom to investigate?

She asked everybody for their opinion on whom to use the investigate. Obviously my town reads factor in when I'm giving her my opinion.

And you're suddenly so paranoid about Agar because?

Because I went through the ISOs and he's scum.

[ooba]

I will try and make a case on those pairings\people but it's usually tougher and the case seems weak when brought to words .. Just go through the ISOs - look at the pattern of attacks - who they attack ..

Gandalf is town - believe my read on this ..

I vote for Gandalf to be the Copped player.

If it is determined he is lying about anything

he has claimed we can have Iec kill him and then lynch based on Gandalf’s flip.

This is true of everyone right? Since we get the entire role PM we would know what role they were and if they were scum?
Also I am with SD on this - you should target the player you think has the most hope of surviving till endgame and winning it for scum ..

[ooba]

Gemini, I KNOW I'm right on AGar\Chess .. I'm willing to bet I'm right on AGM .. Less confidence in LC though ..

If I'm scum, the motivations I have are to draw the investigation away from me and possible scumbuddies (Gandalf it looks like) - but just go through my ISO .. It's quite obvious I'm town .. And my scum-meter is good this game .. (Quadz was a misread; Plum\SB were misreads but that was before a single flip).

Why am I so adamant on this? See in any scenario I can see all of my prob scum being pressurized or considered for a lynch - Chess\AGM\LC - However Agar is the only one I can see winning it for scum - He's on most people's town list and already the benefactor of a double vote once in the game. So yes, I can see this decision as being pivotal in deciding if town goes on to win this ..

And worst case scenario? What if I am wrong - you get two *confirmed* innocents for one shot(Not probably confirmed due to play\claim - but 100% confirmed) since Agar has said and you can verify his PM ..

SD scum would require AGar scum.

[ooba]

But how likely is it that Agar could possibly scum. It's a WIFOM argument, of course, but how likely is Agar scum fake-confirming me as town?

It's a very acceptable\good play for scum to declare one person as *confirmed* town if it makes people believe my fakeclaim later .. It's not WIFOM ..

[ooba]

If I had to make a choice:

Town

2. Chronopie
16. quadz08
4. AGar
5. Shadow Dancer
13. MagnaofIllusion

11. Gemini
15. gandalf5166
12. AlmasterGM

18. LordChronos
20. chesskid3

7. Iecerint

8. ooba
9. Dekes

Scum

Really? Skim reading & post dodging not helping you much

[ooba]

Also love how you place yourself over the treestump
You're definitely not Norse with chesskid & Agar ..
Perhaps the last egyptian who can't use his double voting skill when making the factional kill .. Just figured you'd claim a block and make the kill .. Perhaps .. But not a valid target for the Gemini gun IMO

[ooba]

Really I'd put myself at the top, because anyone not doing so when asked for their own opinion is pretty much claiming scum.

"O hai guys, this is my Rankings, and I don't think I'm towny town even though I know my own Role PM"

I'm not saying it's scummy - I just found it funny for some reason ..

[ooba]

Also love how you place yourself over the treestump
You're definitely not Norse with chesskid & Agar ..
Perhaps the last egyptian who can't use his double voting skill when making the factional kill .. Just figured you'd claim a block and make the kill .. Perhaps .. But not a valid target for the Gemini gun IMO

There was no Egyptian kill last night.

I figured in a protect there. A failed kill on Iece perhaps - Maybe that's why Chrono is mad at Iece too.

Anyway I really do not want to get drawn into the last egyptian discussion now (The only reason why I was thinking about this is that I cannot reconcile the Chrono block with LC scum) .. Got myself a norse team to find ..

[ooba]

BuT WHEN YOU GET ROLEBLOCKER

YOU ARENT GOING TO CLEAR ME

SO WHY BOTHER IM TRYING TO BE PROTOWN ABOUT THIS

She gets the entire Role PM - with flavor + role name - so it is effectively an alignment check ..

[ooba]

Dear god this reeks of over-justification of Towniness ...

No I'm trying to
- overcome any fears that Gemini might have about me being scum pushing an agenda
- Trying to appeal to her to follow my lead by showing her that my reads have been above average this game

I recall Town ooba putting much more effort into explaining why he’s right than just saying “I know I’m correct”.

- I'll tell you what I did - I took out the players I knew were confirmed town - looked through the ISOs of the rest with the assumption that both teams will be looking to attack\actively scumhunt the other -
-- The focus on LC
-- The focus on Chrono till he claimed Double voter
-- The fact that chess never talks about Agar at all except "I KNOW THAT JOKE"
-- The AGM\Agar mini bussing on D2
Putting that onto paper is tough. Just please go through their ISOs.

Explain the downside of Town lynching the last Egytpian god today (assuming of course that your 3-3 speculation is actually correct). Because I don’t see much downside in eliminating an anti-Town kill.

I've narrowed it down to {LC, Chrono} with Gemini being an outside chance. We can take care of the egyptian in the Lynch. Plus 4-2 is also possible which I is why I want Norse culled down with the daykill first.

---

@Iece, LC + Chess scum team doesn't make sense at all.

[ooba]

Iece, I said 4/2 - where did you get 4/4 from?

@SD, @MoI, @Gemini
Riddle me this .. This was something AGM said at the start of this day

In terms of who the other scum are, there's the option of chesskid,

but there's ALSO still AGar. His play has been entirely lackluster and un-AGar like the entire game.

He is definitely trying to fly under the radar here.

So when someone claims a investigate power, why wouldn't I try and push it on someone I thought was scum & others thought was town? Instead he goes chess+LC ..

[ooba]

Yes, but if she knew what they were, then it would confirm her ability.

Gemini uses her ability
- If she catches scum, good. She claims that, we daykill target and move on.
- If she targets town, the best way to confirm her ability is through the lines of flavor the role PM has. That way you don't have to reveal any powers of town than necessary ..

[ooba]

How does your ‘reads’ being good this game preclude you being a member of the second faction you support the existence of? It would be best in ‘Norse’ scum ooba’s best interests to properly scum-hunt the Egyptian faction, yes?

Yes. True, but look at my post at the start of D2 .. Maybe I am 'Norse' who has good reads or internal info (say scum rolecop) on the egyptians and am listing them as my scum reads .. From my PoV, I don't see who I can be Norse scum with - but I can't prove\argue right now that I'm not Norse - guess I'll let the next couple of flips prove that for me ..

Town

7. Iecerint
15. gandalf5166
9. Dekes -> Based on what I think he is

13. MagnaofIllusion
14. Axelrod
11. Gemini (mockingjaye + Katy hydra)
4. AGar

2. Chronopie -> Based on Ability

Neutral

5. Shadow Dancer -> Leaning Town but what gandalf said
20. chesskid3

Scum

3. AurorousVox

16. quadz08
17. mothrax
18. LordChronos
12. AlmasterGM RangeroftheNorth

Meh. I'll have to disagree on the relational tells not being available for the second group - If I see a group of players not really attacking each other and attacking possible egyptians as a group, then I call it a second scum team.

The point is I really don't see the egyptians winning this. The possible egyptians are {LC,Chrono} - Even if it's 4-2 with 4 egyptians and both of them being scum, they're not going to survive to win with lynches\crosskills to contend with. I honestly think the investigation on them is a waste.

[ooba]

I'm here .. Looking through everything ..

[ooba]

Gemini, there was nothing in the scum PM about fakeclaims??

In Dekes defense, this is something I spotted on D1 ..

Dekes-SB links:
(Minor) Dekes promising to look into SB ISO but never doing so ..

And SB teling me my scumdar needs work ..

@ooba: Here, have this 50% off coupon that you can use to fix that scumradars of yours. It really needs some serious work on it.

However, cannot see why Gemini would fake a guilty result and go into 1vs1 even for a Watcher mason .. So ya, wait for Magna but I support the daykill ..

[ooba]

@Iece: The copy of the pm we received had nothing about masonry in it at all. In our version of Dekes' pm, between the faction kill and the wincon, we see "[REDACTED]," so there is information missing.

I guess fakeclaims come here ..

[ooba]

Super: Excellence: AGar

This is a crazy move but it at least gave scum an opportunity to reveal themselves ..

Note we are currently at 12 players (excluding Quadz) with probable distribution being 3 Norse, 1 Egyptian, 8 Town ..
If we kill Dekes now, it becomes 3 Norse, 8 Town ..
One mislynch and one kill would put us at 3 Norse, 6 Town ..
With 9 people it is 5 votes to kill but note that we have a Hated townie in our midst who takes 4 votes to kill, scum would just quickhammer Magna for the win (Scum with Agar) .. So MyLo after the daykill if I am right about Agar ..

---

Anyway weird reactions after the dual super claim of Gemini and Chrono ..

Fuck no, Iec needs to vig Gemini FIRST(although just in case, she needs to fullclaim). Dekes is so town it hurts. Nice try tho.

Really? even if Dekes is a watcher mason, scum would never trade 1 for 1. But this plan makes sense for scum with Agar as a Gemini mis-vig equals Dekes lynch. Kill someone other than Magna for the win ..

oh crazy thought

the scum RBer who went down who uesd his super
super could easily have been a perma RB
used on me
SO LC isn't actually cleared by me etc etc ?+>?+?+?+?+?+? >_>_>

Also, this.

SO MANY SCUM TO KILL.

Eh...you can wait for now. We should definitely kill Dekes and LC first, BUT if you die somewhere inbetween now and lylo, I wouldn't be sad.

Chess commenting on the super being a permanent version of the normal - so perma RB. I can see either Chess or AGM or both as setting up the next mislynch needed to win ..

---

Anyway
- Gandalf cannot be scum with Chess (RB + Redirector on same team)
- I believe the power part of Dekes claim - aka the perma watch on chess - Just surprised that AGM scumdoc wouldn't have protected chess yesterday given that I-who-they-might-think-is-probscum hinted at shooting chess yesterday ..

[ooba]

Thanks chess ..

I'll use that fish to slap the rest of the town postgame if Agar is scum and manages to win the game ..

[ooba]

Have to think about why Dekes kill failed .. SD, did you target Dekes yesterday?

[ooba]

SD, did your role PM have anything about Zeus or Hades being in the game?

[ooba]

@Iec - can you hold of 24 hours to let me review the ISOs when I have time?

MoI, can we speed this up? Unless you can think of a reason why Gemini scum would trade 1vs1 on Dekes - I think we can go ahead with the daykill ..

I think there needs to be a lot of discussion before today's lynch and don't want deadlines forcing us to lynch without discussion .. I think a mass claim might be in order (or left over people claiming anyway) ..

[ooba]

We're not in a rush. And we are discussing all the time. If you consider a claim appropriate, claim! I think you and Agar are the only ones still unclaimed anyway.

My claim doesn't really affect the possibility of Dekes scum in any way .. Would like to get that over with before I claim ..

[ooba]

@ooba re: 2025

– I have two issues with this post.

1. You’ve taken the logical path but are still assuming that we are in a 3/3 setup. If you have solid reasons that tell you this you need to post them ASAP.
2. If your assertion is that Chrono-scum just gave AGar scum a permanent bonus vote would not lynching Chrono be the right course of action to stave off LYLO?

1. It's either SK+scum team(4/5) or 2 scum teams. 4 in each would be too many. So we're looking at 3/3 or 4/2 - As far as scum team size goes - I am assuming symmetry (plus it fits my reads).
even if you say 3/3 is just 33% probable, that 33% it's MyLo now with Agar scum ..

This too assuming Chrono doesn't use his power tonight - cause even if Agar is town and he targets scum with that again - it's a loss for us - The

best

only person to use it on would be Magna

2. I think it's Chrono misguided town ..

[ooba]

LC: Thanatos. Talk with players in limbo. N1: targeted baby Spice (claimed success) N2: targeted Snow Bunny. Failed. Apparently both redirected to Axelrod by Gandalf and RBed by Chesskid D3: Targeted Axelrod with Commune ability. Now we're just talking. So far he's been reporting what I'm saying pretty much accurately if not word for word.

Forgetting the neighborhood QT ??

Motivator can only be Axel\Agar\Me\Gemini or a lie -

I had nothing to do with motivation

[ooba]

Motivator can only be Axel\Agar\Me\Gemini or a lie -

I had nothing to do with motivation

Forgot it could be Plum\SB too as it was N1 .. I have my money on someone but I'll see if anybody claims it ..

[ooba]

I also suggest a

semi-Mass claim

since most people have claimed & more importantly possible MyLo. Will clear few of the unanswered questions (plus I have something to say at the end of it) .. This is my suggested order ..

Note: This is not based on my scum reads but what I believe is town perception as of now and what I think will be accepted .. If I had my way Agar will full claim first ..

- everybody gets a chance at claiming Motivator
- LC claims QT peeps
- chesskid claims N1 target
- I see no reason why AGM should claim his Super target. But will claim N2 target.
- ooba full-claims
- Agar full-claims
- SD claims JK N2
- Magna claims Super
- Gemini Rest of Role claim (Have had super claimed till now)

[ooba]

This work for you?

- everybody gets a chance at claiming Motivator - Meaning Agar\Gemini explicitly accepting or denying this
- LC claims QT peeps
- chesskid claims N1 target
- I see no reason why AGM should claim his Super target. But will claim N2 target.
- ooba full-claims
- Agar full-claims
- Gemini Rest of Role claim (Have had super claimed till now)
- SD claims JK N2
- Magna claims Super

[ooba]

Just checked with Charon .. DV on Gemini is correct .. WTF ..

[ooba]

The answer should come out in the massclaim - we continue ..

[ooba]

Agar, stop ignoring\stalling this game ..

[ooba]

Since when do people need to guess >.>

What did you do?

[ooba]

Super: Excellence: AGar

So this was a feint? If so, I love you for it ..

[ooba]

Andy said that, with an exception namely in the case of Quadz, Super abilities are in general private actions and hence must be sent via a private message. Non-PM'd supers would have no effect.

Commune: Axelrod

Hmm ..

[ooba]

All I've seen is him and AGM going "lolAGarscum" without actually explaining why I would bring the Shadow Dancer lynch to a screeching halt and tie myself to him like that.

You keep saying "SD scum would require Agar scum" enough and people might get it into their heads that "Agar scum would require SD scum" (or negating that - "SD town implies Agar town") ..

And nobody agreeing blindly - it's the logical course of action since it might be possible MyLo .. Now go - we have about a week to deadline ..

- everybody gets a chance at claiming Motivator - Meaning Agar\Gemini explicitly accepting or denying this

[ooba]

- everybody gets a chance at claiming Motivator - Meaning Agar\Gemini explicitly accepting or denying this

Just to make sure, ooba -

you

are

not

the motivator, right?

Remember this when you chastise someone for not reading next time .. And I bolded mine too

I had nothing to do with motivation

---

Also a suggestion - when you're doing a catch read over the last few pages, I've seen that you tend to reply to each post that catches your eye one at a time .. Pasting the quotes in a notepad and posting it and the replies as one post would be better ..

[ooba]

I accused people (was it gand? or chess?) because they did not know who the cop was... That hardly compares.

Ooba, please read. LC already claimed that Baby had little to say and Snow contact failed, which has been more than confirmed by now.

[ooba]

@Gandalf: How does your goddess look? Describe her to me from the pic on your role PM ..

---

@Magna:
You're right. However, I think Chrono is town and a scum DV granter who can grant a DV to his partners sounds broken.

Regarding Gemini, I had an early town read on them and given that reads have been slightly accurate this game - I see no reason not to trust it. Regarding the Rolecop Super + Regular Cop super, I think two one-shot cops + possible Tracker (SB) seems fine in the investigative department for town.

---

@Chess
"hahahah chess lc moi scumteam
hahahahaha"
Surprised you didn't have a similar reaction to Agar-AGM-chess scumteam call of mine

---

@Iece
I think Gandalf is town. Reasoning:
- The reaction D2 on being confirmed seems too genuine to be false
- Also, the super power in the hands of scum could be much better used. It did not require an in thread post ..

---

@Nacho: Welcome to the game.
- The thing which troubles me most about you is why would either Hera\Hades know Poseidon is pro-town?
- I would rather we get this cleared up as to what exactly your role PM says about SD and why before we lynch today

[ooba]

LC in the interest of time, can you claim your QT peeps?

[ooba]

Sure. AGar/Nacho + Plum. Though obviously Plum's not around anymore.

- LC, you were in a QT with Hades and Persephone

So I guess I was right about that .. Does it just say QT with Agar/Nacho + Plum or mention Hades/Persephone role names?

- Claim:

Hermes

- Passive power: Messenger; I enable all daytalk for QTs
- So yes, I expected at least one non-scum-team QT in the game (neighbors without alignment confirmed or masons)

[ooba]

@SD: "Flavour of your passive? Does this apply to all daytalk, including Chronos' talking to the dead, scum QT and Gem's hydra talk?"
I enable ALL day QTs since I am the messenger for olympus. Hydra talk QTs are not subject to game QT rules since it just a means for hydras to communicate; Yes on every other QT.

You can check my reaction to BS's claim - I said her scum team would have come up with better normal claim if they had come up with a good color claim. Plus early towread on Iece because I thought he sounded genuine when speculating day talk wasn't there. And I never said you said the truth about daytalk - nearly claimed at that time but BS wagon died down after her super so didn't see the need.

@Iece: I am not full claiming today because my MyLo concerns have been alleviated. Partial claimed because I really want Nacho to claim why Hades has info on Poseidon town. Since I demand something from him, I only thought it's fair that I partial claim something ..

[ooba]

@ooba: So how does enabling scum daytalk match with being a messanger for

Olympus

?

And how is Baby's waggon

dying down

a justifcation for

not

counterclaiming her as messanger (though both your roles obviously do totally different things)?

Well, that's what it says ("All" Quicktopics) - so I guess it's a case of game balance\design winning over flavor.

She claimed Iris,Goddess of Rainbows. Note: I am Hermes, Greek God of Messengers _________.
- I would have been suspicious if she claimed "Goddess of Rainbows and Messengers" and would have counterclaimed at that point. The fact that messenger was not in her main role name (AND)
- The hider claim; along with the fact that I knew scum could daytalk - made me think it wasn't a made-up fakeclaim
Both these lead me to believe she was town.

She claimed super as messenger in her next post but at that point, I already thought she was town and really didn't see a reason to counterclaim because my passive conflicted with her super power name.

And read properly - it wasn't about counterclaiming BS that I was the messenger god - it was claiming that scum had daytalk and therefore BS's claim was not made up, hence she was town and people shouldn't vote her. The wagon was dying down so I was spared of that ..

[ooba]

What did daytalk have to do with anything? Was it the fact that Hider was just utterly bizarre?

The fact that if BS was scum and made up that fakeclaim with her team
- They had been extremely clever coming up with that multiple colors bit
- But decided to club that along with a dumb move of claiming Hider?
That didn't make sense at all ..

[ooba]

See. I remember /outguessing Hermes as a fakeclaim when BS claimed Iris and I thought she was town.

<_<

I have a theory about fakeclaims too - but will bring it up after Nacho answers my question on why Hades should know Poseidon is town ..

[ooba]

I'll go through this slowly again

Chronology

- 609: BS claims Iris, Goddess of Rainbows with a multicolored name
- 611: I ask for the normal so that I can evaluate the claim better
- 627: BS claims Hider
- I reason out that scum BS with Daytalk would have much better normal claim. I believe her town as of 6*4 (post below).

I am not countering the claim. Sounds genuine.
I'm reading this game again but no longer interested in lynching either of gandalf or BS today.

Unvote

- 659: I specify my reasoning above
- 674: SB claims that her power is "messenger based"

Now, why would I counter claim someone who I believe is town just because she claims her super is "messenger based" and I am Greek God of Messengers ______ and my passive is named Messenger?

---

Now let's take your second point about it not making sense flavorwise for me to enable ALL quicktopics since I am messenger of the good guys. Assume I'm a scum messenger than
- So if there are two teams, I enable the QTs for the second as well?
- Or if there is just one team, I enable the QT for the neighborhood (Nacho-LT-Plum)
That does not make sense flavor wise too.

[ooba]

It's not that you did not CC her, it is that her claiming messanger caused absolutely no reaction at all with you.

Well she said "messenger based" and I did expect at least one other non-scum-QT-based-power so thought the super she was hinting at was that she can select a person to whom her town status will be revealed and a QT gets established between them (one-way mason super).

In fact, if you at my reads after the D2 re-read ..

9. Dekes -> Based on what I think he is

At that point I thought Dekes was a town neighbourizer who created QT's amongst people ..

[ooba]

- She was a town read and said her super became useless if revealed
- She claimed a "messenger-based" power which I had reason to believe existed in the game
So you telling me that I should have questioned her just because I had "messenger" in my role PM is wrong.

[ooba]

You didn't know that Iris was also a messenger of the Gods...?

Of course I knew that. But you should notice she claimed just "Iris, Goddess of Rainbows"; I would have more apprehensive if there was a messenger in her main rolename.

[ooba]

Description of ky picture: skinny muscular chick in a black garment that barely covers what it needs to. She's got a purple sash around her shoulder, and her hand is outstretched and has an Apple floating above it. In her other hand she had a staff. Black hair is held up by a gold ring. I have similar bracelets on my wrist and upper arms. And I have a gold thing around my waist too. On top of that, I have black wings sprouting from my back. I'm barefoot too. I don't feel comfortable getting into any more detail.

More details O_o ? I found the picture.
What does this tell you now, ooba?

You did? I searched from my phone and did not get this .. Lemme try now ..

[ooba]

Description of ky picture: skinny muscular chick in a black garment that barely covers what it needs to. She's got a purple sash around her shoulder, and her hand is outstretched and has an Apple floating above it. In her other hand she had a staff. Black hair is held up by a gold ring. I have similar bracelets on my wrist and upper arms. And I have a gold thing around my waist too. On top of that, I have black wings sprouting from my back. I'm barefoot too. I don't feel comfortable getting into any more detail.

More details O_o ? I found the picture.
What does this tell you now, ooba?

- I thought about Gandalf slipping up in his God vs Goddess claim..
- It is possible that Andrius botched up that fakeclaim; but he definitely wouldn't have done that if there was an image in the fakeclaim
- Most images in this game are from deviantart so if Anrdius hadn't included an eris fakeclaim image for Gandalf-scum, he would have had to select one from random\good-looking one from the net
Thought it was an angle worth checking out ..

[ooba]

And his image is from deviantart (so is mine, too, btw.). Do you trust his claim because of that?

Well I already thought he was town. It was a case of Null if deviantart (since scum could have pics like lotr Mafia) - I would have been suspicious if it wasn't ..

[ooba]

Game's stagnating ..

Nacho, please answer these .. Don't have to read thread for this ..

@Nacho: Welcome to the game.
- The thing which troubles me most about you is why would either

Hera\

Hades know Poseidon is pro-town?
- I would rather we get this cleared up as to what exactly your role PM says about SD and why before we lynch today

[ooba]

How do you know Snow was a tracker? Were there breadcrumbs I missed? Because Dekes’s word on the subject is pretty useless in that regard.

Make Artemis a tracker and make Ra a scum watcher with an apoolo fakeclaim. Not based on breadcrumbs; just seems a elegant addition to the setup.

@MoI - Understand that my passive is untestable; I guess the only way you can judge this is to see if my previous play is in line with whatever internal info I might have had with my PM from that time. (Basically what SD\Iece did)

---

@Mod: Need an extension until Nacho posts. Haven't had anything from that slot all day

@Gand: If your knowedge about Greek mythology is not muc more extensive than yours about Egyptian mythology I would not bother to bring that up as an argument.

Lol ..

LC needs to claim the third ability if I am right ..

[ooba]

I'm going to continue grinding Gandalf's posts into scummy, scummy dust until 1 of the 3 following things happens -

1. The last three votes necessary to lynch him appear.
2. The day ends.
3. Someone provides irrefutable evidence that someone else is scum.

I do not oppose this lynch; but I would like to see Nacho really answer that question of mine before the day ends - Agar didn't do anything D2 and I really can't let a slot get away with not saying anything for two days - and plus did I mention Hades knowing Poseidon is town?

[ooba]

<setup-ramblings>
- Also,

I would like to add that Thor had a redirect ability in oGaM

- Checked, apparently he stopped people from being redirecrted
- One of the reasons the Chess-AGM-Agar scum team made sense was because if there are two scum teams, most mods prefer to use symmetry i.e trying to balance them out in numbers and power .. Which is why I preferred 3-3 over any other combination
-- Since mothrax claimed RB and AV a doc, it seemed to fit powerwise exactly with chess+AGM
-- On the other hand, I see one team having a redirecter and one team a roleblocker like we did in Star Wars Mafia
-- "Baldur, the Invulnerable" (again from oGaM) could be one-shot bulletproof to compensate for the Doc power in egyptians

<paranoid>
-- The fact that lightning was involved in the item given to Iece made me think it might be the work of Thor, but it is clear it is a "Bolt" .. And I don't think Thor can give his lightning powers to others .. So Iece and Magna have to be scum together with Iece being Thor with a daykill for all this to work out .. That's quite a long-shot and I'd rather trust my reads for now ..
</paranoid>

</setup-ramblings>

But all this conflicts with my town read on Gandalf - ya, I know I can be wrong but I was sure of it .. Need to give this another re-read to see if I can spot possible partners ..

[ooba]

Calling it the "Norse team" over the "possible scum team" much better; Norse have cool gods so I expect them there ..

---

Magna\LC\Chrono\SD are town (LC might be an egyptian if 4-2)

And Nacho\Agar just won't play ..

Cannot call both {Gemini,Iece} town - at most one of them is scum. But superior town read on Iece.

Which leaves AGM\Chess\Gandalf ..

Can see {Gemini\Gandalf\AGM} but problem is that

I anticipate two of the other scum fakeclaims to be Olympians

(by that I mean the twelve).

{Gemini,Iece,Nacho,Chess} = Olympians
{Gandalf,AGM} = Non Olympians

- Definitely one of {Gandalf\AGM} is scum since it cannot be all three olympian fakeclaims
- Only one of {Gandalf\Chess} can be scum because of Redirecter\Roleblocker claims
- At most one of {Iece\Gemini} is scum

a) If Gandalf is scum
- Chess is town, AGM is town
- Two out of {{Iece, Gemini},Nacho} are scum with gandalf
Put my money on:

Gemini, Nacho, Gandalf

ISO examples spotted
- Agar finds Gemini scummy for passive aggressiveness in the beginning; asks her for reads in one post and then completely never mentions Gemini again
- Agar getting irritated at me for asking questions to Gandalf

b) If AGM is scum
- Gandalf is town
- Two out of {{Gemini,Iece},Nacho,Chess} are scum with AGM
I'll go through and find most probable team for this possibility later ..

[ooba]

Wait this doesn't make sense .. Why are you making this a 1vs1 on you and LC? I'll deal with just facts here ..

- Night one we had two kills : "Turned to Sand" + "Castrated"

- Night two we had just one kill: "Castrated" on Axel
- You claim to have redirected LC to Axel
- Chess claims to have blocked LC
- LC claims that his normal death-QT to SB failed

There are many possibilities; Why are you focusing on just one:
a) LC actually made the kill for the "Castrated" team on somebody; You redirected him; Chess is lying scum with LC
Why this is not true: Two scum would never reveal themselves this way. Chess would have bussed the hell out of LC.
b) "Castrated" kill was actually made by somebody else on Axel. LC was blocked by chess.
Why this makes sense:
- Went through Axel's ISO. 337 lists AV & mothrax as town reads. Plus you also get the feeling he wasn't sold on mothrax; could have been misconstrued as a scum-partner to mothrax when you're reading after D2 flips. So overall, a decent choice for anyone wanting to make an-anti egyptian shot ..

[ooba]

One point against B is that it's silly to try for a cross-kill when your main opposition is town rather than scum.

While I agree with this in theory, In practice, you tend to get very paranoid as scum about the other team killing you so it always becomes a hunt for the other team.

[ooba]

I was just going through Gandalf's ISO when I noticed this

The

"mafia" faction is compromised of a foreign Gods and/or Goddesses.

So I talk about two scum teams and base most of my scum hunting on that and NOBODY tells me that the opening page hints at a single Mafia faction. (Use of the word "The") - I'm getting it confirmed by the mod ..

[ooba]

Deadline extension is fine by me. 2 days sound fine? No more than 3 though.

@Mod:

If you can confirm that the "The" here is correct - I do not think we need an extension

The "mafia" faction is compromised of a foreign Gods and/or Goddesses. All players are either Gods or Goddesses.

[ooba]

MoI, I really do not know if gandalf can be a Redirector SK but overall I have a town read on him. And the SK can be analyzed tomorrow (more info) since I KNOW LC is the last egyptian .. (and No, I am claiming role based info - more the confidence in my read)

Barely talks about\talks to\mentions any of the egyptians D1
- In fact, he has a whopping 2 posts in D1 (out of 18): 318, 320. He talks to mothrax.
- He never mentions Dekes or AV on D1
D2 behaviour
- Similarly Dekes interaction only once before Cons is determined to be sure scum - 1205
- Also would like to point out that he wanted to go Lynch2 on AGM, gandalf & Axel (Compare this with Mothrax who wanted to go Lynch2 on Gandalf and me)
- 1474 - He doesn't like mothrax but look at this in the same post - "I suppose one reason to go for AGM over Axel or mothrax is to avoid forcing out yet another claim."

Waiting for confirmation from mod still but this won't change anything -

Unvote. Vote: LC

---

Also, SD - once we receive confirmation on that - I would like you to clear you JK target now - It might be able to clear that person tomorrow if we know "Casterated=SK" by tomorrow's kill ..

[ooba]

Also, on the SK - these two are obviously not SK ..
13. MagnaofIllusion - Hated townie is a insta-loss claim for a SK
4. Nachomamma8 AGar
I think that mothrax\Dekes weren't lying about roleblocking Agar. Since N1 kill went through he cannot be SK.

Which leaves
2. Chronopie
5. Shadow Dancer
7. Iecerint
11. Gemini (mockingjaye + Katy hydra)
12. AlmasterGM RangeroftheNorth
15. gandalf5166
20. chesskid3

Now I'm really curious to confirm what exactly Nacho has on SD.

@Mod:

Request deadline extension till Nacho comes back. No purpose in someone replacing and then being V\LA for 6 days when deadline is pending. If deadline cannot be extended by so many days, I request replacement for the slot.

[ooba]

Several games have a similar rule........ They're referring to the main mafia faction........

@ooba: IF Charon does confirm this...... Don't forget that AV not being castrated N1 means that SD cannot be SK either..........

What do you mean main faction ?
- The presence of the word "The"
- The absence of the letter "s" after faction indicating plural factions
clearly points towards one mafia faction.

See if it were not true, Mod would have cleared it up immediately. The fact that he doesn't (here or in PM) points to the fact that it is right; that way he is under no obligation to confirm; after all, it has been there from the start of the game.

But SD=SK fit so perfectly . Ok, SD cannot be SK. (that doesn't clear you though)

---

@ ooba -- Not sure why AGar can't be the SK?

This is not based on *verifiable* fact but I think scum Dekes and scum mothrax were telling the truth about RBing Agar N1. After all, why lie about something which Agar could dispute ..

[ooba]

After all, why lie about something which Agar could dispute ..

Unless AGar is Egyptian. But even then he's not the SK, so........

No scum team is going to involve themselves in a lie which puts three people in danger from the scum team. After all, a single track on mothrax would unveil all those lies.

SD - Do you disagree with the conclusion that there is only one mafia team from that OP statement?

[ooba]

- 1474 - He doesn't like mothrax but look at this in the same post -

"I suppose one reason to go for AGM over Axel or mothrax is to avoid forcing out yet another claim."

Drug levels reaching record hights... Seriously? What is scummy about this post and how does it support your LC avoided the Moth waggon point at all?!?

I can't hand hold you through every step of the logical process - esp. if you're being insulting. Read the fucking post again.

[ooba]

I'll quote the entire post for you because apparently you are too slow ..

Consider also the timing, though...he basically brought it up as soon as people started questioning his townieness, whereas it's not necessarily any of town's business where the doublevote came from...

I am picking up ooba-ellipses....

So you think he is scum/3rd party trying to get town points then by making AGar double voter?
What do you mean by ooba-ellipses? Do you mean that you think there is something missing from his argument.

Other news:

Don't like mothrax's lack of anything after he said he'd post today. -> A

@quadz

I'd guess the AGM wagon didn't build back up mostly because of his doc / super doc claim.

I suppose one reason to go for AGM over Axel or mothrax is to avoid forcing out yet another claim. -> B

He certainly isn't playing like intelligent town as well.

A: He says he doesn't like mothrax
B: But invents reason for not voting mothrax and trying to convince others of a reason to wagon somebody else
If that doesn't show LC~mothrax links, I don't know what does ..

[ooba]

"I do not oppose this lynch;" -> In context of your post above that, it reads "Well your points about gandalf are decent - so it's a viable lynch option" and the rest of my post which you cut out reads "but would like to figure stuff out before we go ahead with it"

Magna with single faction + SK, I think it is 4+1 tops.
Reasoning: Hated townie in a setup; plus daytalk - granted conditional daytalk - but always helps scum.
Iece, Gemini = Not egyptians.
AGM = Claimed doc = egyptians had one on their team
chess = Claimed proven RB = egyptians had one on their team but can't be sure of this as above; You can argue that mothrax might have claimed RB to put us off chess but my earlier read was that chess cannot be egyptian.

---

Regarding 1474 -
Whether he was talking to Quadz or anybody else, doesn't dilute the point - This is how the conversation reads:
Quadz: "Hey. AGM is scummy - at least as much as mothrax is. Why aren't we lynching him?"
LC: "Don't like mothrax's lack of non contribution. (earlier in the post)" In response to quads - "AGM claimed doc. But here's a reason we could go AGM over mothrax"

"In fact Chronos eventually voted for Moth without really pursuing the Alma wagon."
Of course, he doesn't push it because you immediately shoot it down in your next post and Quadz backs off his AGM paranoia.
He never talked about L2 possibilities in his next posts after that; The only time he talks about mothrax again is after Conspiracy's botched claim when it was all but obvious Conspiracy was going to be lynched.

---

Gemini- Could have shared that earlier. Would have saved me time thinking about this game.
And that motivation you stated is not logical. I go harping on second but choose to do a complete 180 close to deadline to bus LC when I-scum could have had a gandalf mislynch?
SD is more on the ball when he attributes me wanting to save gandalf as a possible scum motivation. (It's not true but it's at least logical)

---

Gandalf, I've already shown you why "someone else killed Axel" qualifier is possible in 2260 (and in response to your counter argument - if it's an SK - he\she knows that the egyptians aren't dead). Stop being stupid.

[ooba]

Also, my full claim ..

Hermes, Greek God of Messengers and Thieves

- Already claimed my

Messenger

power -> Grant daytalk for all QuickTopics as the messenger of Olympus.
- Started the game with no normal power. My passive was in my normal slot as a placeholder.
- Super:

Psychopomp

-> Can choose a player; Upon their death I receive their normal power.

When I replaced in, CMAR had already chosen SB. Andrius said I was allowed to change it once from SB; I asked it be reset to nobody. Plan was to use the super on somebody when I was sure they would be lynched.
D1: Gandalf ended the day before I could use my super.
D2: Choose AV before the lynch. Received his normal:

Protection

: Can protect a player from one shot on them. Can't use it on myself.
N3: Protected Iece

[ooba]

ebwop: "N2: Protected Iece" rather

[ooba]

I'll apologize because I got sidetracked with the two scum team theory. But I'll make up for wasting most of the day by finding out the last egyptian(s).

So I'll run you through my egyptian analysis now ..

Players: Iecerint, Chronopie, AGM, LordChronos, Gandalf, AGar, ShadowDancer, MoI, Chesskid, Gemini
- Iecerint, Gemini are not egyptian because they both gave us one egyptian each
- The Lynch 2 votes have the potential to tell us most about the possible egyptians. The basic psychology being with AV already busted, scum will really try not to lose another team mate here in L2. They will only pile on when it looks inevitable that a scum buddy has to claim.

Quadz (3)– ooba, Dekes, Gemini
LordChronos (1) - Chesskid
AGM (1) – MoI

Dekes (2)– AGar, ShadowDancer

Chesskid (1) - Gandalf
ooba (1) - Mothrax
Not voting (6) – Iecerint, Chronopie, AGM, Axelrod, Quadz, LordChronos

Agar, SD are voting Dekes. Definitely not egyptian.

Mothrax (4) – ooba, AGar, Dekes, Iecerint
Axelrod (5) - MoI, Gandalf, ShadowDancer, Gemini, LC
LC (1) - Chesskid,
AGar (1) - AGM
Iecerint (1) - AV
Not voting (3) – Axelrod, Chronopie, Mothrax

Now this is an informative snapshot. I've already mentioned this before but I expect at least one egyptian on the Axel wagon. Now AGM and chess wouldn't have wasted their votes if they were egyptians since piling in on Axel would have been better than random votes. Chess, AGM are not egyptians.

Which leaves: Chronopie (Not voting), LordChronos, Gandalf, MoI
- I'm willing to eliminate Chrono just on the basis of his normal and super. Granted, both powers could come with a rider that they cannot be used on a scumbuddy but it's unlikely. Plus he would have taken a more proactive role in getting Axel wagoned over mothrax instead of popping in, making random comments and escaping.
- Likewise with MoI. Play+Claim ..

---

You already have my LC ISO case.

Gandalf

The Hammer

Now I consider gandalf's hammer to be a move which could have much much better used if scum. But I'm trying to see if egyptian motivations can be ascribed here, so let's go ..
Now I spotted Dekes-Av links in 710 - Iece voted AV and we were started a mini wagon - BS wagon was dying down and while it looked like diddin would be the mislynch, there was always the possibility that we could drive it towards AV.
This quote in particular is telling - "But there ARE other people who could get lynched today that are better targets short term.". This preemptively sets up the "BS had to be killed anyway" view (Long term view since she was antitown and it had to be done anyway) and we also get a hint at his motivations for the move. ("other people who could be lynched today")

N1 night action

The way I read it.
- I can think of the scum team thinking Iece is the SK
-- After all AV voted Iece at the end of the day one. ("Willing to revote Diddin, but Iec's posting has been really scummy in the last few pages so.)
-- So did Dekes (Iecerint immediately being content with the claim on the nameclaim alone is ridiculous and scummy. Plus, #615 and #616 looks kinda staged.)
-- Therefore redirect possible SK to someone who isn't them
- Redirect town JK to AV because he cannot protect himself. The person in the scumteam people were most suspicious about were AV. Therefore most probable vig or cop candidate. A JK on AV takes care of both. (Cop inspect fails and kill would be protected due to JK)
This also explains the order in which he choose the actions. After all to the scum team, finding out who the SK is would be useful esp. if there is a redirector in the team.

Other damning stuff

- Gandalf does not mention AV, Dekes, mothrax even once during D1!! (That's 0 in 92 posts)
- Lynching Gemini in Gemini vs Dekes
- missing "ess" in the Goddess claim

---

Both strong cases on Gandalf and LC. Obviously gandalf's is much more stronger on paper .. Intuitively some stuff troubles me (Like mothrax's L2 vote on gandalf & whether he is really is that stupid to go against Gemini when there is a guilty on his scumbuddy) .. I'll now support either lynch. Still prefer LC ..

[ooba]

@SD - Didn't trust AGM - I can see Iece dying and him going "Oh thought I'd make the scum double guess" (or) must be a super kill excuses .. Better safe than sorry I guess ..

And if I did have that dead stealing power, claiming that D1 isn't what I would have done

---

Which brings me to the SK ..

MagnaofIllusion - Hated townie is a insta-loss claim for a SK*
Nachomamma8 AGar - I think that mothrax\Dekes weren't lying about roleblocking Agar. Since N1 kill went through he cannot be SK.
Iecerint - Redirected to AGM by Gandalf on N1
Shadow Dancer - Redirected to AV on N1
LC - Blocked by chess N2

Which leaves {Chronopie, Gemini, AlmasterGM, gandalf5166, chesskid3}

Unless the wincon is not the standard survive till end one - which given an all-power town is kinda unfair on the SK.
Since a lot of the themes of the previous game have been repeated, I can see the game as Hades winning if Zeus\Poseidon are killed. After all, Andy has this Hades crush ever since that game

If scum should gain Zeus' counter, they would have gained the following power.

Once per night, you may target a person and learn that person's role name.

Which brings me to my questions to Gemini:
- Gemini, are you Hera or Hades?
- Why did you not reveal your super on D2? After all, if you were killed, town would have lost that super.

Also, SD, Gemini also has to claim ..

[ooba]

ebwop: There must be a * before Unless ...

[ooba]

Of course he could have been suspicious of AGM as town; but it's not the suspicion alone which irks me - that line on one hand tries to see if people would come back to AGM again and on the other tries dissuade people from Mothrax for pretty flimsy reasons ..

---

@SD: Footnote is the part where I go "Unless the wincon is not the standard survive till end one ..."
However, that said - I only think the Zeus\Poseidon part may be an alternate wincon - such as ..

"You must slay Zeus and Poseidon by your hand. (or) Be the last man standing"

Which still makes Magna not SK.

One thing in favor of LC is that - given that kind of a wincon for the SK - the "exception" part of Axel's super makes sense .. Which LC claimed .. (Plus Axel's passive super also makes sense since you don't want SK losing that wincon because Mafia killed Zeus .. Same argument holds true for Poseidon but you cannot make both killproof as that would make it unfair for the Mafia team)

So I'm back to

Unvote. Vote: Gandalf

. Please don't lynch until we hear from Nacho\Gemini though.

[ooba]

Alternatively I can see

"You win if Zeus,Poseidon & Hades are dead (or) You are the last man standing"

either way LC's caimed axel passive super + exception makes sense. I'm liking the above better.

[ooba]

I acknowledged that you might have a case on gandalf but I had a town read on him. Nobody is going to not lynch somebody because I have a town read on them so went to figure out if I'm wrong or if I can find a better candidate. And of course the figuring stuff out is relevant because that's exactly what I did after that - try to see if I am wrong about gandalf - alternatively see who can be partners with him - ISOs ..

So maybe "I think it's a decent case" might have been better wording since my figuring stuff out was a way of seeing if you could be right, and if not, my way of opposing the lynch on a town read ..

---

Magna, surprised that you would limit yourself to those options for the double block and create false "it has to be chess or SD" situation.. (Btw option 4 is wrong if you believe Gemini's super use on Dekes)
- I can see Gandalf redirecting SD to cause confusion and then claiming to redirect LC
(alternatively)
- Gandalf redirects LC
- LC claims dead talker
- chess scum knows that dead talker who targets living person would have failed anyway so claims to have blocked LC - while he actually blocked Chrono ..
(alternatively)
- SK could have 1-shot RB power which he used on Chrono to create the Chrono-SD is lying situation

[ooba]

*ebwop: Option 3 should read .. "Chess-SD" is lying situation

P-edit: LC, my super says I inherit their "Normal power" on death. Axel's normal is 3 1-shot powers right - therefore making his normal a JoAT. Therefore I should have got the JoAT normal power .. Whether the used powers would reset for me is mod's discretion - that's the way I see it ..

[ooba]

I'll take your points one by one ..

Flavor

Two lines in the PM - I spread news everywhere as the official messenger of olympus. Since the outside world has been cut off from olympus, we must work inside the walls.

Passive (aka placeholder normal) says I enable all QTs as the messenger for olympus.

Super has no flavor. I guess the name "Psychopomp" is flavorful enough.

On mass-claiming

With a player on a double vote and a hated townie, I thought it was MyLo and the best strategy was to fullclaim. Once MoI pointed out that the double vote increased the vote threshold, I was pacified and didn't push it any further. I have only asked for claims where I suspicious after that. (For example - Gandalf's pic claim, Nacho - why would you know Poseidon is town claim, why didn't you use\claim your ability D2 claim)

On me full-claiming

I pride myself in having the pulse of the town as either alignment. MoI opposed the lynch saying "not enough time". chess would come in and say "Whoop .. ooba lynch" .. The scum amongst {LC,Gandalf} would jump on and I'm at L-1. So saved time by claiming.

On two scum team

I was seriously side tracked by the two scum team theory. Katy has seen me do the setup spec+scum hunt methods in oGaM.

Also: I literally wasted a lot of time thinking about this stuff. You could have stopped me at anytime since you apparently knew the egyptian wincondition. The fact that you claim this ONLY after I spot the message in the OP and reverse it myself is scummy. I can attribute SK motivations for NOT confirming to the town that it was just one mafia faction.

On Gandalf

Yes sure .. I always had LC down as an egyptian and gandalf as town .. My case looks good but even now its more PoE on gandalf than having a sure read on him ..

[ooba]

Your reads look good.
- But I'm pretty sure chess-LC are not scum together this game.
- On AGM, the only thing I have is a bit of paranoia about the claim - AV was going to go down anyway and flip "Bastet, Egyptian Goddess of Protection and Cats" - so claiming doc saying "Hey AV's already scum doc - I can't be" .. On the other hand, he did not side either way in Axel-mothrax and SD said he used his super before that night so it's just the paranoia ..

---

Regarding the setup spec on SK, you're wrong that it's an egyptian because the rules change clearly indicate that someone from the Greek pantheon is evil and hence SK.

All town-aligned players are part of the Greek Pantheon, but not all members of the Greek Pantheon may be town-aligned. The "mafia" faction is compromised of a foreign Gods and/or Goddesses. All players are either Gods or Goddesses.

Was searching for possible castrators amongst Hera, Hephaestus when I came across this ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus

When Uranus met with Gaia, Cronus attacked him with the sickle castrating him

So this guy is obviously our SK .. Since it fits - part of the Greek pantheon but definitely evil and has it in for all of us .. (Looking back, Andy's " I watched Percy Jackson" was a clue since Cronus is the main villain there; After all I think it's been a year since the movie released)

[ooba]

Back to SK hunting

Nacho - I think that mothrax\Dekes weren't lying about roleblocking Agar. Since N1 kill went through he cannot be SK.
SD - Redirected to AV on N1
- I am also willing bet that Hades\Poseidon cannot be a Cronus fakeclaim ..

Iecerint - Redirected to AGM by Gandalf on N1
LC - Blocked by chess N2

Which leaves {Chronopie, Gemini, AlmasterGM, gandalf5166, chesskid3, MagnaofIllusion}
- Also I stick to my earlier point - an SK definitely has an olympian fakeclaim ..

Which means one of {Gemini, chesskid3, MagnaofIllusion}

Gemini SK paranoia

- Given that the zeus counter was a rolecop in the last Greek Mythology game, Gemini uses a rolecop the day after Zeus dies

Magna SK

paranoia

(It's no longer paranoia here - he's the SK)

- Magna (Hephaestus) gives Iece a zeus bolt the day after Zeus dies
-

Iece, can you confirm the timing of when you got the item? Did you get it immediately after day start or was there a delay?

- I don't like the fact that he calls alternate SK wincon discussion fluff; After all if all he has to do is kill Hades, Zeus, Poseidon for the win .. then we cannot clear him for the Hated townie claim
- And "scum hit SK bulletproof?" - seriously?? Why attribute something to the protective roles when we can cause paranoia?
- Also implicating chess-SD by "oh Chronopie was double-vote blocked. One of them is scum"

I do not think chess is the SK.

---

And no people, I am not doing this because I want to protect my so-called scumbuddy Gandalf - there is a good chance I might be killed today (Protective role and am thinking about the game) - so want to get it all out so that before day ends ..

[ooba]

Gemini, what is the name of your Super called?
MoI, what is your super?