Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[StrangerCoug]

Hello

Will read this weekend.

[StrangerCoug]

For now

Is there anything urgent?

[StrangerCoug]

Reading. There's something else I want to get to, so expect just quick notes.

[StrangerCoug]

God damn this computer, crashing and making me lose my notes and then deciding not to load Firefox and making me use IE...

Quickies from the first half of the game or so:

Wraith not wanting to break the game is null in the long run. There's legitimate scumhunting and then there's bad setup design that leads to unhappy players.
Exe gets an

FoS

for random pseudo-voting when we had info to go on.
Toogeloo is obvscum. He defends his page 3 strike as gut and denounces the pseudo-voting system out of fear of scum controlling the strike. To me, what he advocates instead is like randomly voting because we have a scumgroup. I've seen him play better.
Albert B. Rampage gets an

HoS

for stifling discussion about Toogeloo and is likely his buddy.
I don't see ThAdmiral's deflection.

For now, VOTE: Toogeloo.

[StrangerCoug]

The rest:

ABR is

STILL

trying to derail discussion of Toog? Gee whiz!
Can't decide on Exe vs. Friend right now. MagnaofIllusion interrupting at #232 stands out, though—do you have links to games where Exe acted like this as scum?
#252: That's what I was planning on doing.
#260: How do you get that interpretation?

Anything else, let me know. As for Lady Lambdadelta asking me to ISO Hrezs, I did that last night and he didn't stand out to me as very remarkable. I can live with his lynch (in fact, I believe I had a comment about him in my notes before I lost them—let me check), but Toogeloo and ABR are the two people I'd be happiest with killing.

[StrangerCoug]

ABR are the two people I'd be happiest with killing.

I can live with that.

Is that all? Defense, forthcoming or already posted?

[StrangerCoug]

I think we should concentrate on scum that can still strike today. We can come back to the maggot if we think he's scum tomorrow.

That's all fine and dandy if you do not want people tunneling on Toogeloo, but there is a difference between encouraging discussion about someone else and forcing discussion about someone else. I'd be fine with your statements if you merely said you thought we had bigger fish to fry, but talking like he's not a lynch option is unsettling.

[StrangerCoug]

When has suicide ever helped the other people of the same alignment? Seriously.

[StrangerCoug]

And that tells us what about other players, exactly?

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, to hell with it. If she wants to die, then she can pay the price.

Strike: DrippingGoofball

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, to hell with it. If she wants to die, then she can pay the price.

Strike: DrippingGoofball

Moar opportunistic scum.

Regardless of my alignment, your side is the one that is hurt by throwing in the towel. Let's look at the combinations from someone else's viewpoint:

If we're both town, boo for us. You've wasted our time.
If one of us is town and the other one is scum or we're opposing scum, which one of us is which is irrelevant. Yay for me.
If we're scumbuddies, then it makes sense for me to try to get town points by taking out a liability to our team.

You remember how I lost Cyclic. As long as the wagon consideration was off me, I pushed it, but once I was the center of attention I quietly succumbed. I don't see much difference.

[StrangerCoug]

For some reason, I don't feel as passionate about Albert B. Rampage and Toogeloo being scum. I still think they're a pair if they are, but I agree that the DrippingGoofball wagon is a better place to look.

As for my vote reason, if you're going to go on a suicide mission, then you'd

BETTER

be scum. Her given reason for the self-strike is to prove Albert B. Rampage wrong, and while it worked in the letter of the intent, in practice I'm questioning if it works in the spirit of the intent. She had a clear scum read on Albert B. Rampage and mine on him has weakened.

I'll post new reads Saturday afternoon MDT at the latest, but MagnaofIllusion makes a good point against KageLord.

[StrangerCoug]

Here's my reads on everybody on the DrippingGoofball wagon except herself and me:

Albert B. Rampage:

Again, weaker scum read than yesterday, but still a likely buddy of Toogeloo if he's scum since he quelched discussion of him on Day 1. His Day 2 posts are pretty short, but I consider that a null tell since I don't think you have to be verbose to be pro-town.

Nachomamma8:

Not likely scum.

Kublai Khan:

His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?

His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.

Plum:

Town.

Bunnylover:

Town.

camn:

Leaning scum on her right now. She slumps on the DrippingGoofball wagon with no clear reason given, and I get an IIoA impression from her ISO.

Friend:

I see very little effort out of him. He thinks his suspects are scummy for... what, exactly?

Hrezs:

Not noteworthy except for the clam.

KageLord:

Scummy. To answer his question, MagnaofIllusion makes a good point about him speculating about the nightkills. I also don't see any strong cases out of him.

Exe:

He's cleaned his act up enough for me to consider him townie.

Magua:

Leaning town.

MagnaofIllusion:

Town.

VOTE: Friend

Major HoS: Kublai Khan

[StrangerCoug]

Kublai Khan:

His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?

I don't see what's wrong with my push against Wraith. You can make the tired "playing games is fun!" argument, and many people have. But Wraith's "I'd prefer not to break the game, guys" just sounds so... whiny. To list a preference in Mafia is to say "I'd rather do this, but whatever you want guys". It's like he's a weather-vane, ready to point in whatever direction the majority of town wants.

So, why is my dislike of Wraith worse than anyone else?

I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.

WTF is with the rash of people who are quick to say shit like "I don't like his posts" but aren't actually following it up with why or try to ask me any questions for clarification? Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, and now you StrangerCoug.. There's even a couple of votes on me from people testing the water to see if a wagon is possible.

I stated why.

[StrangerCoug]

I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.

Actually, about that.. In your Albert B. Rampage/Toogeloo pairing conclusion, which of the two do you think is more likely to be scum?

I'm more inclined to go after ABR.

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

Eh.. You know better than that, StrangerCoug. I thought his preference in context was scummy, you're arguing that preference as a hard rule isn't a good scum-tell.

Not true. I was arguing with the semantics of your statement, not that having a preference for something is a tell.

[StrangerCoug]

Well if you're arguing semantics, then you're also wrong. Your described actions were a compromise. You were willing to lynch ABR/Toog, but compromised and settled for someone else who you didn't have any strong town feeling for. Your action resulted in a specific action towards a specific goal (Vote -> Strike -> Lynch)

What Wraith did was state a preference, without putting any strength or weigh behind it. Not the same.

OK, this makes better sense.

[StrangerCoug]

@ everyone: kagelord or friend - pick a side.

Going after Friend.

[StrangerCoug]

-If the DSK will help us out with a day kill (

@DSK-

go for StrangerCoug, he's very likely IC and I doubt he has the vest since he isn't under threat/suspicion)

Wait, am I all of a sudden on drugs? Last time I checked, IC stood for "inexperienced challenged". Not something I call myself, but the term has positive connotations, not negative. What's the vest all about, as well?

-The jump to DGB fits with the IC read.

See above.

-Here StrangerCoug tries to buddy MoI.

That may be, especially since it's true I think MagnaofIllusion is town, but my intent with the post was to state agreement with him. Agreeing with people is not a scumtell.

[StrangerCoug]

So I

AM

on drugs.

[StrangerCoug]

Furthermore I don't feel like much more discussion is going to help. This game is not going to become any clearer until at least one scum flips. I am getting pretty antsy to strike tbh.

Apparently, the nighttime serial killer being dead doesn't help you.

This should not absolve StrangerCoug of any suspicion on her person that she may be DSK, member of the Skull-Crushers, or the Town Inner Circle member.

I am male.

A) Open blocking lets us know who is NOT the leaders of each scumteam.. that is, if 2 kills go though, we missed twice.
ONly 2 players can nightkill right now, right? So if we start to build a database of who those players ARE NOT, then that=win.
Of course, there are many reasons a kill could miss, so thats why we need point b.

Easily manipulable by a scum team if they want to get a mislynch against town (assuming we roleblock two town). Just don't send a kill in, and next thing you know we are mislynching town twice as we guess which of the two players we blocked were scum.

Quoted for truth. The plan seemed off before reading the response, and this explains why to me.

[StrangerCoug]

/strike: kagelord

Competing strike wagons ftw.

VOTE: ThAdmiral. Starting a competing strike wagon for the sake of starting a competing strike wagon doesn't really help matters. Sorry. I'd strike if it were not for this from MagnaofIllusion:

Since we have already breached a number of strikes I’d much prefer for people to continue to use votes to cast their suspicions. We still have the chance to make sure we have a kill everyone just doesn’t ‘settle’ for.

I'm starting to get a little more weary of Albert B. Rampage. It seems like he thinks he

HAS

to be the driving force of the strike wagon. I would have to know Kublai Khan's flip to be sure of myself, though.

[StrangerCoug]

-I would like everyone who has not yet struck to EXPLICITLY state whether they think we should Block AND Lynch among KK/Kage OR whether it would be better to ignore that and just Lynch the top suspect.

I prefer just going after the top suspect since I do not believe ThAdmiral and KageLord have the same alignment and I more strongly suspect ThAdmiral, but the Kublai Khan/KageLord split is decent too.

In my opinion, the DSK should kill either Friend or Toogeloo.

[StrangerCoug]

-I would like everyone who has not yet struck to EXPLICITLY state whether they think we should Block AND Lynch among KK/Kage OR whether it would be better to ignore that and just Lynch the top suspect.

I prefer just going after the top suspect since I do not believe ThAdmiral and KageLord have the same alignment and I more strongly suspect ThAdmiral, but the Kublai Khan/KageLord split is decent too.

In my opinion, the DSK should kill either Friend or Toogeloo.

Jesus SC, still as passive as ever.

Tell me, beyond KK/Kage/Admiral, who is scum?

In other words, beyond the top three suspects and wagon threats today, who is scum and why?

Here's a hint: I have no reason to direct the DSK to players I think are town; therefore, Friend and Toogeloo are two of my suspects. I think Albert B. Rampage has tied himself closely to the latter as well.

Friend is making it look like he's scumhunting without actually scumhunting. I see a bunch of names thrown around in his ISO, but I can't come up with a coherent case on any of them looking at his ISO. The most damning post of his is his #40, where he claims striking DrippingGoofball is a bad idea, yet does it anyway.

Toogeloo's early strike on Day 1 and defending it with fear that the strike wagon will be scum-driven comes off as what would in a normal game be support for a perpetual RVS. He's also starting to develop the same problem as Friend if not a worse one with the lack of real scumhunting.

The big thing that makes me think that Albert B. Rampage is Toogeloo's scumbuddy is an active attempt to halt discussion of him on Day 1. I'm still undecided on ABR's crowning himself King of the Wagons, but regardless of Toogeloo's alignment, it's unnerving too.

[StrangerCoug]

That is why it's best to have a coherent plan before striking ><

[StrangerCoug]

Ready to strike ThAdmiral when we have the all-clear...

[StrangerCoug]

Strike: ThAdmiral

then.

[StrangerCoug]

Delicious irony of the current strike votals is that each of Magna, SC, and Nacho have expressed distaste in me...

So?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm getting the feeling that ThAdmiral is being made into the new DrippingGoofball. Either we have a scumpile on the strike wagon again or this is one apathetic town, both of which can easily cost us the game. My town reads on AlmasterGM and Lady Lambdadelta have committed suicide. I don't regret

MY

strike, but we're on a train going directly to hell right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Any further comment, or is that just you picking one?

[StrangerCoug]

The idea I thought best was for nobody to strike until we had a "pseudo-lynch", so to speak. Is that still workable?

[StrangerCoug]

My reads haven't changed by much. Toogeloo and Albert B. Rampage are tied together and I feel more strongly about ABR-scum; Friend needs to get the hell in here and post decent, coherent cases; and my Lady Lambdadelta worries have strengthened with AlmasterGM's flip as I believe both of them struck just to get somebody lynched.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta and

HoS: Albert B. Rampage

[StrangerCoug]

My reads haven't changed by much. Toogeloo and Albert B. Rampage are tied together and I feel more strongly about ABR-scum; Friend needs to get the hell in here and post decent, coherent cases; and my Lady Lambdadelta worries have strengthened with AlmasterGM's flip

as I believe both of them struck just to get somebody lynched.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta and

HoS: Albert B. Rampage

Because, you know,

WE COULD TOTALLY STRIKE SOMEONE ELSE AT THAT POINT IN TIME?

You're SO scum.

Nice OMGUS, LadyLambdadelta. Toward the end of yesterday, I complained that ThAdmiral was being made into the new DrippingGoofball, implying that people were striking just to get somebody lynched with no real reasoning behind the strike. When I said that either scum is taking advantage of this or town is apathetic, you went from telling me that town is apathetic to both that and scum were piling on ThAdmiral. You've clearly stated that you just wanted a player dead; you can die yourself.

StrangerCoug has made it his personal mission to try and either have me beaten to death or shot every day.


I would like to see this empirical evidence to support the notion though.

What empirical evidence? If you mean a case, I still think that you blowing your Day 1 strike like you did is scummy, and I think Albert B. Rampage connected himself to you by telling people to ignore you for that. Hence the "quelching discussion" attack on him. If Albert B. Rampage flips town, then depending on your actions I may allow some slack, but if he flips scum and the possibility exists that he has a living partner, you're dead meat at this point. It takes more than that to throw me off you.

[StrangerCoug]

HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU?

HOW AM I OMGUSing YOU, WHEN I CALLED YOU SCUM FIRST?

My town reads on AlmasterGM and Lady Lambdadelta have committed suicide.

Toog/SC/KK is my most likely scum team.

I'm really sold on SC scum.

Did you call me scum prior to April 4?

Try NOT using false information next time, ok?

Try practicing what you preach. You effectively agreed with me that the game is going sour, then called me scummy? How does that work?

[StrangerCoug]

Wake up and smell the coffee, Lady Lambdadelta. I was worried about you and AlmasterGM prior to ThAdmiral's death. AlmasterGM flipped scum and you weren't all that different from him at the end of Day 2, so I'm connecting the dots.

Tell me, Lady Lambdadelta, did you have a

GENUINE REASON

to want ThAdmiral lynched?

[StrangerCoug]

Wake up and smell the coffee, Lady Lambdadelta. I was worried about you and AlmasterGM prior to ThAdmiral's death. AlmasterGM flipped scum and you weren't all that different from him at the end of Day 2, so I'm connecting the dots.

Tell me, Lady Lambdadelta, did you have a

GENUINE REASON

to want ThAdmiral lynched?

AGM was tunnelling the fuck out of me.

If you're connecting a scum team with he and I, you're delusional.

So I'm delusional. Regardless of my sanity, I don't buy the WIFOM defense of the connection.

I could see some of the points that were brought up about ThAdmiral SC, but I wanted Friend lynched yesterday.

The fact is, if I had struck anyone else, it would have been a

detriment

to town.

And you would be here telling me I was scum for striking who I thought was a better lynch.

We have too much scum in the game for allowing a mislynch to happen to be good strategy. Counting the Inner Circle as part of that faction only, this game started as 13:3:3:3:1:1. We are now at 9:3:2:2:1. The next townie to die will put us at parity with the combined scum unless we hit them first.

[StrangerCoug]

Are you fucking stupid? You can't take back strikes.

Where did I say you could?

So when 11 people have struck ThAd, and there are 4 voters left, NOT striking the leading wagon is BAD. It means potentially a no lynch could occur.

And at that point, ThAd was the only one who COULD be lynched.

This is a scum-heavy game. Sometimes not lynching is an acceptable alternative.

We have too much scum in the game for allowing a mislynch to happen to be good strategy. Counting the Inner Circle as part of that faction only, this game started as 13:3:3:3:1:1. We are now at 9:3:2:2:1. The next townie to die will put us at parity with the combined scum unless we hit them first.

9:3:3:1

Three mafia left (goon, RB, Framer). Two mafia are inner circle. One SK.

So you're splitting up the Inner Circle into their nominal alignments. Fine, but I think you're missing a townie.

His LLD *case* is hardly one. She is scummy, but he's clearly and obviously OMGUSing.

See post #925. My case on her is not having much of a good reason for striking ThAdmiral, which I called out before she made it clear she was suspecting me. AlmasterGM didn't have a good reason either and flipped scum.

Day Killer is assuredly just making sure that whomever he kills isn't going to be lynched anyways. Counter-productive to kill someone who will die anyways. He could kill before strikes are made, but once strikes start flying he is better off waiting until a death almost assured.

I'm also gonna strike now...

Strike: Prince Albert B. Rampage in a Can

I yell at Lady Lambdadelta for her weak ThAdmiral strike and you do this? Are you insane?

UNVOTE: Lady Lambdadelta
VOTE: Toogeloo

We've been burned too many goddamn times by people not coming to a consensus before striking.

[StrangerCoug]

Why do I want to chew out half the game or so?

[StrangerCoug]

Here is where the "Must Strike" mentality fucks with town.

Who folds and decides to just strike those already struck? Does scum hunting end... etc.. etc... etc....


See, people are afraid that if they try to go any other direction, then no one will get lynched, and yet everyone bitches that (despite only a low number of strikes having been made thus far) one of the people struck must be the lynch for the day.

THANK YOU!!!

[StrangerCoug]

MoI is IC, Toog is IC, ABR is possibly IC.

Lynch MoI or Toog, IC get removed then we can hunt the 'normal' scum using more 'normal' methods.

How do you know that lynching one Inner Circle member will automatically get rid of the other two? We asked the mod about this earlier and he refused to answer.

[StrangerCoug]

There's certainly a mechanism in place to prevent a game break, but still...

[StrangerCoug]

I wonder...

Does anyone else get the feeling that Baby Spice is scum, and that she is pushing for a Toogaloo lynch because she suspects him of being the IC in her faction?

The possibility exists. So you think Baby Spice is bussing Toogeloo?

[StrangerCoug]

Mentally split up the IC members. I see what you're talking about now.

[StrangerCoug]

Is there such a thing as a game being so frustratingly easy? Because I think this is a good example. So much scum left and so many candidates for all that scum...

I'm not letting you slide through today on the false dichotomy that there can only be two wagons today.

I hate this sentence. True or not (that's not how I interpreted Baby Spice's statement, so I'm inclined to believe no), Lady Lambdadelta is attacking Baby Spice for thinking we can only lynch two people after I attacked her for thinking we can only lynch

ONE

yesterday.

I smell panicky LLD-scum, too.

[StrangerCoug]

Yet again, the situations are different.

Today, we have 11 people left to vote, so lots of possibilities are available.

When I voted yesterday, there were only 4 votes left, and thus, only 1 person who was within lynch threshold.

And lynching someone is always better than a no lynch. Always.

Let's forget the end of yesterday for a brief moment and go into a hypothetical situation. I want your answer.

Suppose you're in a mountainous game with three town and one scum left. Two players have been acting pretty solidly townie, one has been using a lot of OMGUS, and one has been using a lot of WIFOM. What is the best course of action?

For someone who claims to understand the mechanics, your lack of understanding is shining through.

I'll save this for later.

[StrangerCoug]

Now let's suppose an alternate universe where ThAdmiral was merely blocked and no one was lynched. How might the numbers differ between both what they are now and what they could have been were it not for a crosskill?

Albert B. Rampage and I gave the current numbers counting the Inner Circle as their nominal alignments and as a separate alignment respectively, if you need help.

[StrangerCoug]

Gd people. Slow it down.

Okay, how about everyone that hasn't struck yet says which lynch(es) they would be down for today before we do anything else?

ABR: Yes
MoI: No
Toog: Yes
BS: No

The main reason why I say no to MoI and BS is that we have 2 much better lynches open for today. I wouldn't be shocked if 3/4 of these were scum, but I would rather take out the ones I'm more sure of first. If DSK wants to shoot someone on this list that isn't going to be lynched though, that would be mutually beneficial.

The yes/no part is the same for me. I still support the Toogeloo-Albert B. Rampage pair, but MagnaofIllusion and Baby Spice are not suspicious to me.

[StrangerCoug]

Answer my damn question before I do it for you.

[StrangerCoug]

Why don't you answer it then SC?

Because I see what you're doing, and it's a very deliberately narrow view.

Hint: Numbers.

[StrangerCoug]

Then tell me how losing majority, which it was possible to do at least three different ways last night, is worth the risk.

[StrangerCoug]

You don't know he's scum either, and you were really impassionate about lynching him.

[StrangerCoug]

And the vicious cycle starts again...

[StrangerCoug]

Exactly. And we haven't shaken each other off.

[StrangerCoug]

You suspect me; I suspect you; nothing is going to change by us arguing with each other.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug: I would like you to take a minute to spell out the benefit of a Day 2 no-lynch you were talking to lady Lambdadelta about. It's probably very simple and feel free to berate me as an idiot that needs a grown-up's hand to cross the street, but I really haven't been following the logic of any of your reads. Either your scum trying to push bad logic, or I'm just not on the same page, so I'd like a point of common ground.

Counting the IC separately, ThAdmiral's death put us at a ratio of 9:3:3:3:1. That meant we lost the majority. (Fortunately, we've regained it for now.) Leaving ThAdmiral alive would have kept us at parity going into Night 2. As we would have had one additional townie left, there would have been fewer situations that would have cost the town the majority. If Lady Lambdadelta had made a decent attempt at a ThAdmiral case, I would have simply gone "OK, we were wrong," and this argument would not have happened. She made no such attempt, and neither did AlmasterGM, who has flipped scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Okay, but I guess I'm failing to see how losing the majority is a major negative result since we'd still have the plurality of the votes...

It may not be, but only having the plurality seems a bit suboptimal to me.

Counting the IC separately, ThAdmiral's death put us at a ratio of 9:3:3:3:1. That meant we lost the majority.

9:3:3:1:1

Still have majority.

Even if you're aware that that adds up to the number of players alive now, how did you get that?

[StrangerCoug]

What I don't understand is why you would count the IC seperately. That doesn't make any sense. There are 9 players with town win conditions, and 8 with anti-town win conditions. Get it straight.

The Inner Circle cannot win with the town if I understand it correctly.

[StrangerCoug]

The last time you gave a ratio, though, it was 9:3:3:1:1. Was it a calculation error?

[StrangerCoug]

That makes sense for the current state of the game. Odd that you counted the "town" IC separate anyway, but I still see how you got the numbers.

[StrangerCoug]

So which one of Toog or ABR will it be, guys? I'm open to either.

[StrangerCoug]

So in your attack on Lady Lambadelta, you're arguing that it was scummy of her not to pursue a no lynch because we could have been dropped to a plurality, which would be sub-optimal at worst..

Am I grasping the argument correctly? (again, yes I know I'm an idiot for needing such a high level of clarifty)

Suboptimal

PERIOD.

Otherwise, yeah.

Yeah, I love the 'no-Lynch isn't always anti-Town' position as much as the next guy, but strawmanning someone to bolster your misrepping attack on her isn't showing it to its best effect. I mean, really - 'Let's forget the actual relevant scenario so I can attempt to sound less dumb by pointing out an obvious exception which has no relevance to my original point'. Let's not and say we did, eh?

There was relevance—sometimes no-lynching is correct. If you think that striking somebody you really don't suspect that much for being the only viable lynch is correct, then I'd like to hear how this is so. Until I hear it, my case stands.

[StrangerCoug]

I wasn't planning on a Baby Spice strike. Toogeloo is the answer.

[StrangerCoug]

Let me look through Baby Spice in ISO and see if she's worth hammering.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, let me make an informed decision.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, that's right—she slipped by saying "my scumbuddy". #1142.

Strike: Baby Spice

Time to die.

[StrangerCoug]

Anything besides not keeping a close eye on what's happening?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not sure I agree with SC. It doesn't make sense for him to not hammer BS. If he were IC he'd just kill her. His entire scumteam was dead aside from him and BS, so he'd have to assume she was IC. Trying to score town points for not hammering literally makes no sense.

Could you clarify a bit? It appears that you simultaneously disagree and assume that I am a Night Rider as worded.

I wasn't planning on a Baby Spice strike. Toogeloo is the answer.

This is pretty scummy.

How so?

[StrangerCoug]

O.K. SC, show us that you're working for us, who are the scum? Name 5.

You and Toogeloo I still think are connected (so both of you have to be Skull Crushers if I am correct) and I still don't like Lady Lambdadelta's limping on the ThAdmiral wagon.

The other two require me to reread the thread, but tentatively, Friend/Xalxe's lack of content is worrisome and I'll look into the accusations of Exe.

[StrangerCoug]

He's scum because he chainsawed BS yesterday with those arguments.

He's only continuing them today, because it would look even worse on him if he changed it up now.

Unlike

YOU

with ThAdmiral, I took the time to check to see if Baby Spice was worth having lynched. I did not go "whatever everybody else says" and sheep her wagon.

[StrangerCoug]

Go ahead. You're scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Pretty gosh darn sure, Plum. I don't usually try to sort out scum into specific factions, but as per my believe that Albert B. Rampage and Toogeloo are scum together, not Skull Crusher.

[StrangerCoug]

Another way this town can lose this game very quickly is if we cannot make a coherent decision on who's scum. That's why ABR and Kast don't like you.

[StrangerCoug]

Not claiming scum here either. It's called throwing the game at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

Not claiming scum here either.

It's called throwing the game at this point.

...

We want the tide the way it's going with the kills. It's currently 10:2:1:1 with the ICs counted with their faction and 9:3:2:1 with them counted separately. Allowing a mislynch is still too close for comfort.

[StrangerCoug]

Strike: Lady Lambdadelta

Thank you for doing me a favor.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry. Exe has thrown you to the dogs and I am not making the mistake of not acting on it and then wondering what the hell is with the wagon.

[StrangerCoug]

We will deal with him accordingly. You die first, though.

[StrangerCoug]

I am not defending Exe in any way. In fact, my statements imply that I know he's aligned with you.

[StrangerCoug]

I want to know what Strangercoug and Kagelord think about this recent development. Who do you believe is scum now?

To answer anyway, I now know I'm right regarding Lady Lambdadelta and town was on the right track with Exe, which makes Toogeloo-you less likely as I don't think you're both IC.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought that was obvious. Exe revealed a lot of inside information about Lady Lambdadelta and Baby Spice.

[StrangerCoug]

Albert B. Rampage is looking less and less scummy. In the likely event I must give up the Toogeloo-Albert B. Rampage pairing, he's the one I'd rather let off the hook.

[StrangerCoug]

Right now Lady Lambdadelta is just trying to save her tail. She needs to die a painful death.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, we know what's blown to smithereens. On two counts. Nevertheless, I still think Albert B. Rampage is more likely to be town.

Strike: Exe

I still think that's a lot of inside information from Exe and I don't see why Lady Lambdadelta's alignment can't have been leaked to him. Let's dismantle the Inner Circle.

[StrangerCoug]

I like Magua's strategy of clearing Mafia. Strike until they're roleblocked; if a kill goes off, the roleblocked player is town.

[StrangerCoug]

@Camn-
WTH Camn? Do you pay any attention to the game? The plan is to strike SC to either stop the kills tonight or clear him as non-Nightrider. There was exactly enough strikes to roleblock a single player in addition to our lynch; if you preferred a different target, you could have stated so and made a case for that target. Magua is tied for the worst person you could pick. Kage is a flipped cop and pretty clearly crumbed that Magua and KK are both town. You're following Exe-scum in trying to block a practically confirmed town.

Quoted for truth.

[StrangerCoug]

I am in agreement with you here, ABR, but I think it's a little early for a strike.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug- Who do you prefer out of ABR/Mute?

Mute.

[StrangerCoug]

I blocked Mute last night.

Discuss.

Ready to

Strike: Mute

. I don't like the flailing in his response, but his lynch is a good check to make sure nobody tried to kill him.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't like the flailing in his response, but his lynch is a good check to make sure nobody tried to kill him.

Explain plz.

He's trying to defend himself as saying another person could have tried to kill him. There is only one person left with a nightkill and for Mute's argument to work requires Albert B. Rampage to have either declined or run out of time to send in a kill last night.

@SC-
Is there a reason you wanted to strike immediately instead of waiting to see if ABR's claim was a scum slip?

My suspicion of Albert B. Rampage fell apart when he started gunning after Lady Lambdadelta and Mute's flip will likely say something about Albert B. Rampage.

[StrangerCoug]

There is only one person left with a nightkill and for Mute's argument to work requires Albert B. Rampage to have either declined or run out of time to send in a kill last night.

Or it could mean a security officer jailed ABR, OR it could mean a security officer jailed ABR-scum's kill target, OR it could mean one of the 2 docs protected ABR-scum's kill target. You're not making any sense.

Whoops—generalized the setup. My mistake.

My suspicion of Albert B. Rampage fell apart when he started gunning after Lady Lambdadelta and Mute's flip will likely say something about Albert B. Rampage.

That doesn't answer the question. When mod is going to provide an answer that could potentially confirm a player as scum, why would you refuse to wait for that mod answer? It makes no sense.

I failed to catch the difference and saw them as one and the same.

[StrangerCoug]

I will do a closer look tomorrow (I didn't get the computer a lot today due to my mom's schoolwork), but we have some breathing room right now from my calculations. To me, scum is scum, but you know the obvious.

[StrangerCoug]

How about MAGUA next for fullclaiming? SInce stranger coug is no where to be found?

How about you learn some patience? Have you noticed that I only post during a certain time window during the week? You asked me to claim at 11:08 PM MDT and decided that 9:11 AM MDT was too long.

VT. Kublai Khan, go.

[StrangerCoug]

06.

Kast

--- Town Inner Circle. Not SK? Or is he SK, gambling that the town IC is dead... and fake-soft-claiming IC?
Kast: please clarify. Are you or are you not Inner Circle?

The Inner Circle has been wiped out. Pay attention.

[StrangerCoug]

I believe Magua eluded me. Congratulations to him.

[StrangerCoug]

1. One about the setup, things you liked and didn't like, ways you think it could be improved, etc.

The mentality that there was a bunch of scum was very strong and I felt that there was not much room for error. It required strong play not to rely heavily on luck. I also feel that the way the Inner Circle was modded made the concept confusing.

2. One about the players, who you think did well/poorly, happenings that you really enjoyed, etc.

The town did its best, but the scum claims made the game seem anticlimactic. I feel it should have been punished somehow other than what I call "wrath of the players" (basically, letting confirmed scum being lynched).

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah, I've considered blacklisting them [both, all], but I'm not sure how positive of an effect it would have. I usually only blacklist flakers and intentionally antagonistic people. Anyway, the surveys are still coming later, but I am wondering SC, what about the way the IC was modded made them confusing? The no-IC-flips, or the wiki error?

Both, but I feel the wiki error had more to do with it.

[StrangerCoug]

this is the second time you have run what is essentially a bastard game advertised as a “theme” game

I have a hard time understanding your argument toward the mod. If your argument is that there was no warning of bastard modding, from what I've seen recently that opens up a whole other can of worms regarding whether bastard modding should be announced or not (though I think it should). If your problem is that it was advertised as a theme game, then he really had no other option—the only other possibility that allows for roles not given ahead of time is mutually exclusive with bastard modding.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm in agreement with you regarding no-flip. No announcement of such is going to throw the game off guard, so I can see the argument how it's bastard.